Key Genes In Your Mold Illness Treatment Journey – Part 1

Ann Shippy, MD

Welcome to the Mold, Mycotoxins, and Chronic Illness Summit. I am your host, Dr. Ann Shippy, and next, we get to speak with Dr. Ben Lynch. He is the author of Dirty Genes and the founder of Seeking Health Supplement Company. He truly is one of the most brilliant minds, looking at genetics, these important pathways, and how we can help our pathways work better. Today, we are going to dig into the relationship between histamine pathways as well as glutathione. Thank you so much for joining us today. It is great to see you.

Ben Lynch, ND

Likewise, Ann.

Ann Shippy, MD

Yes, so I know you have had quite a bit of experience with mold personally. Let’s start there.

Ben Lynch, ND

Yes, first of all, exposure is to mold. You do not know about mold because no one talks to you about it until you get sick from it or get exposed to it. You wonder why you are not doing so well. Then you learn about it through the grapevine. Unfortunately, you are deeply sick of it. Yes, I have several mold stories because, wherever you go in the world, there is mold. With a few exceptions, I had some patients, including a doctor, move way up in elevation in Colorado to get away from mold. I thought that was interesting. I do not think mold has high elevations; if you need to escape, that is where you go.

Ann Shippy, MD

No. I have had several patients go to Colorado or even Santa Fe, New Mexico, just to be in that drier climate, at least a little less likely, to give their bodies the break and time to heal. I think it is a good idea.

Ben Lynch, ND

Yes, I was born and raised in Portland, Oregon, which is very wet. Then we moved to Central Oregon, outside of Bend-Prineville and the SunRiver area. I do not recall any mold issues there. It was a beautiful place to live. I go there every year to visit. Now we have forest fires; that is another issue. But for mold, I will share a patient story. This is after I have already had a personal experience with it. But I want to start with this one because this one is so, oh my God. 

When I was still a student at Bastyr, I was seeing patients. I had a supervising doctor shadowing me, of course. This patient comes in with a runny nose and congestion. She is saying, “, I had to get this resolved, and I am remodeling my home. I think it is just dust from the remodel.” I am saying, “Okay, sure, sure.” I give her the neti pot and talk to her about dairy and gluten. She says, “Yes, yes.” She does all this super-compliant lady stuff and comes in a couple of weeks later, still with the same symptoms. I was like, “Okay, are you wearing a respirator? What type of work are you doing?” She goes, “, I stopped doing the work because I just cannot handle it. I have got to teach, and I am missing too many days of school.” I say, “You’re a teacher.” She goes, “Yes.” Then all these supplements, all these lifestyle things, air purifiers—nothing’s working. I was like, “Have you… Where do you tend to feel good? What’s the last time you felt good?” She goes, “I do not remember the last time I felt good. It has been a while.” I said, “Okay, where do you feel worse?” Because I cannot pin it. I said, “Well, where are you spending most of your time?” She goes, “Home, work, car.” I said, “Any issues in your car? Any water damage in your car?” 

Now, this is a commonplace, by the way, that a lot of people forget. We had mold in our car. There’s another story and two car stories with mold. Long story short, after maybe two months of seeing her, I said, “, I would like you to go to your school and test your school.” She goes, “Why is that?” I said, “Well, are there any other individuals struggling with the same symptoms as you are?” She said, “Yes.” I said, “Okay, go test.” She disappears. I have not seen her on the docket for quite some time. I see her name coming back. She comes back, and she goes, “Well, I have good news and bad news.” I said, “What’s the good news?” She goes, “I found the problem.” I ask, “What’s the bad news?” She says, “They found mold so badly in the school that they almost destroyed the building.”

Ann Shippy, MD

Oh, my gosh.

Ben Lynch, ND

Yes.

Ann Shippy, MD

I helped you help a lot of people by helping her find a big problem. That is right. Then a lot of people were sick.

Ben Lynch, ND

That is right. Yes, when I was looking at schools for our oldest son, you get all involved in which school and which place is best for living, and so we toured this one school that was quite known for having a good academic program. Walked in. Musty smell, carpeted. I looked around for air intakes and stuff, and when I told the principal who was walking us around, I said, “Your place smells musty and moldy.” He goes, “We do not have any issues.” I said, “Well, you have an issue. You need to get this checked out.” To this day, so has not been dealt with. Still the same building, still the same mustiness. Of course, our kid did not go there, so okay.

Ann Shippy, MD

Well, there, it is even on the EPA website on what to do if you feel there is a problem with your school. It is very clear that your children are heavily affected; even their IQs can change. I think the EPA website is a good resource there.

Ben Lynch, ND

That is great to know. Yes.

Ann Shippy, MD

Yes. It has to be an existing student-patient situation.

Ben Lynch, ND

But yes, it is. I do not know what is going on now since my kid at the time was six, and now he is…

Ann Shippy, MD

Oh, my goodness.

Ben Lynch, ND

21, yes.

Ann Shippy, MD

Yes. Well, that was smart of you to go take a peek first.

Ben Lynch, ND

Yes, for sure. Then we had mold in our home. When you were doing home construction, you probably talked about this, so I will just share that. We bought a home; our first home was in the North of Seattle. Seattle’s notorious for mold. So we converted a garage and turned it into a master bedroom. I bought the house already that way. The garage was already converted into a master. There was no garage in this home. I bought the home for $189,000. Good luck buying a house for that price these days. So I was remodeling the room to make it better because it was such a dark hole, and I did not find any mold and did not smell mold. But I did not change any of the drywall. I just left the old drywall, and then we had our bed up against a wall, and we had our second son, and he was born. Then he was fine for a while. Then he started getting just a chronic runny nose, just prolific. He had no vaccinations; he was breastfed. He just had all these symptoms. It is. What the hell? My wife’s joints were hurting. I had a runny nose, but not terribly. 

One day I did not know what I was doing—cleaning the house or changing the room orientation—I do not know. But I pulled the bed away from the wall, found black mold along the entire back wall where the bed was, and asked, “How in the hell did that happen?” The exterior wall was not heated. So you have to maintain airflow. then what I found is, “Where is it coming from?” Remember, it was a garage, converted garages. You have foundations that go higher than the rest of the house, typically. With a typical house, bedroom, or foundation, you have wood. Then you have drywall. that is, and then you have the subfloor underneath that. then you might have a concrete, way below that. In a garage, you have concrete going a foot and a half up two feet, and then you have your walls. So they just slapped drywall right over the concrete, and the concrete cracked. It cracked all the way through. The water was penetrating through the concrete and getting everything wet. Then I just created a warm room, and I pushed the bed away, so there was no airflow for drying. It was just a perfect black mold environment. yes.

Ann Shippy, MD

That was your first. Did you make that connection then, looking at the symptoms that you guys were having?

Ben Lynch, ND

Yes. Then, it is so hard to get rid of all of it. That problem was taken care of, and then in the bathroom, I just kept looking because the symptoms were still bad in our bathroom. Always smelled just wet. It was just very, very humid all the time. I left the fan on. I open the window; there are two windows in here; the fan is going; why does it always smell wet? It just had heavy air. I had a solar light with a fan. A solar tube brings in light because it is in a dark area of the house. I thought, “, I am going to create a solar tube, which brings a lot of sunlight into the house.” Then there was a fan kit with it, and the fan sucked in terms of power, a nice pun, but it did not work well; it did not draw air very well. But I also noticed that the pipe was this, so water was being held in the pipe from the condensation. I replaced all that and got a bigger fan, which helped, but it still did not solve the problem. Years later, we remodeled the bathroom, and the entire walls were just moldy. It had to do with an exterior wall again. Yes, the entire tub was just black mold behind the tile. Yes, stuff is everywhere.

Ann Shippy, MD

I know you at one point decided to start fresh with new construction. Has that been successful? Have you been?

Ben Lynch, ND

Yes, knock on wood. It has been successful. Our air quality in this home is amazing. The materials used were good. We built this from the foundation up, and there is a lot of learning involved. I had experts advising me on certain things. When you have rock faces on a home or bricks that are attached to wood, I am not talking about a total rock house or a complete brick house. There’s a lot of facade being used in construction these days. So we have some stonework done on the outside of our home. One of the experts I talked with said, “Okay, you can have the stone on the outside of your house, but make sure that there is a gap between the stone and the wood or the rest of your home. It has to have a chimney of air to be able to pass through that.” Our builders learned a lot because I was on their asses all the time about certain things. When they shaded the house, they used a special fabric, which I forget the name of the material, and then they installed two-inch by half-inch strips all along the exterior of our home before they put the siding on, before they put the stone facade on. It has been working well. I have not had any issues.

Ann Shippy, MD

That’s good to hear. Yes, it is quite a labor of love to get through the construction process and have it be succ

Ben Lynch, ND

Yes. It is. There is a joke out there that should not be a joke, but a cheap accountant is expensive. An expensive accountant is not cheap. It is the same with builders. Our builders were expensive, and I was sweating bullets about writing. The checks are for them. But it is a worthwhile investment because a home should be cherished. I would invest heavily in your home because you spend most of your life there.

Ann Shippy, MD

You could only be as healthy as your home.

Ben Lynch, ND

Yes, exactly. Or as sick as your home. Indoor air is the worst. Dr. Stephen Janis is a great guy. I hope he is doing well. His health was struggling from possible mold. He was presenting at one of my conferences, and one of the statements that he always made was, “People are always concerned about the quality of the sunscreen we put on, what additives are in our deodorant, and our lipstick. That is all great to know. But that is a micro area compared to your lungs”. You are breathing 11,000 liters of air every single day. If you are breathing 11,000 liters every day and there are mycotoxins and mold spores in there, you are getting massive immune stimulation from that. 

If you have massive immune stimulation, then your body is so busy fighting that it cannot fight any other persistent chronic infection. It cannot provide the energy that you need to walk around. It cannot provide enough energy for you to think cognitively and perform at work or home. The electrolytes require 40% of your body’s energy at rest, which is used to pump magnesium and potassium into your cells. Imagine 11,000 liters of air. I do not know. It would be interesting to calculate how big of an area that is. Then there is the amount of antigen that comes with that. I have always wanted to study how much ATP, or the body’s energy, is utilized during an immune response. I did some research during COVID for fevers because fevers require huge amounts of energy, and that is why there are also febrile seizures during fevers because the body is supposed to feed a fever and starve a cold. I thought that was interesting. Nobody taught me that in school because the fever requires so much caloric

Ann Shippy, MD

We need the fevers to fight the infection, I think. Tylenol and Advil and things. We need to let our bodies run the fever to fight the infection.

Ben Lynch, ND

Yes. Then, if you have exposure to mycotoxins, you cannot even get a fever. Because you are so depleted that your body cannot mount a big enough response to fight anything. Not only are you struggling with the mycotoxins and the mold itself, but now how many persistent chronic low-lying infections are you struggling with that you would have cleared so quickly otherwise? Now it is just compounding, and you just get sicker and sicker. You beat the mold. You, let us say, completely beat the mold. You move, you get rid of it, and you throw everything away. You walk out of your house naked, you shower in a new place, and then you leave. You move into your new home, and you shave your head. You have no mold spores anywhere. You neti pot the hell out of your nose; go on with the whole thing. But you are still struggling, and you are still sick. Your adrenals are shot, you are persisting in infections, and the recovery from the mold itself just follows.

Ann Shippy, MD

Mitochondria poison; the bile is not flowing all the way.

Ben Lynch, ND

Yes.

Ann Shippy, MD

It is a great segue to get into one of your areas of expertise, and that is how our genes can make us more susceptible.

Ben Lynch, ND

Yes, for sure. Yes, so there are 18,000 genes in the human genome, give or take. 18,000 or 20,000 depending on what paper you read and when you read it. Who knows, maybe that is shifted to some other new number and probably has, which is weird given that the Human Genome Project was done. I think you would know. Isn’t there a perfect number? It is: Do you have 2,000 more genes than I do? I do not think so. I do not understand why there are discrepancies.

Ann Shippy, MD

It just shows you the imperfections of science.

Ben Lynch, ND

Yes, for sure. Yes. Then we have about 18,000 different genes, right? Now, these genes are made up of little bits, or puzzle pieces. These puzzle pieces can create variations. Variations in our genes are what lead to the survival of the fittest and natural selection and evolution. Genetic variation is the reason why species evolve. It is the reason why we have very different responses to things. “I do not understand why you are so sensitive to smells. What’s wrong with you?” Another person will be super sensitive to smells, and that could be environmental, purely because their genes are just so overworked and they have overworked them. Or it could be a genetic variation that predisposes them to be super sensitive because they cannot process aldehydes. Their detoxification system is not very good. Their inflammatory response is super sensitive.

Ann Shippy, MD

It’s that, supertasters? A genetic thing, okay?

Ben Lynch, ND

Yes. Supertasters. That is a genetic thing too, for sure. Bitters. People love IPA beers, right? And I forget the genetics with that. IPAs. IPAs are super bitter. I cannot stand IPA beers. I cannot drink them anyway because they are gluten. But yes, some people love IPAs, and some people hate them, and I think that is a genetic variation thing.

Ann Shippy, MD

Interesting stuff.

Ben Lynch, ND

Yes. Do not think that genetic variations are bad. They are just different. If you identify which genome variations you have, then you know your strengths, your weaknesses, and the areas that you need to focus on “I do not need to focus on that”. But if let us say, you inherit a genetic variation that makes you super-sensitive, your immune system is extremely on guard. If you are walking by a car and you are two feet from it and it goes chirp, chirp, yes, it is, ‘What? ‘ Now the lights flash. You go by other cars and just bang on the hood, and nothing happens, and it has a car alarm built in. But these other ones are super sensitive. It is those super sensitive cars that you walk by that chirp and lights blink, blinking. You’re not even a couple of feet away. That could be your immune system or other people’s immune systems. You’ve got to bang on the hood to even get anything to come out.

Ann Shippy, MD

That’s a great analogy.

Ben Lynch, ND

Yes. My wife’s, oh my gosh, hers is just on hyper-alert All the time. Just all the time. Then you compound that with genes that do not eliminate free radicals very well. Now you are getting a body full of these free radical compounds because when your immune system is triggered, it releases these free radical compounds: reactive oxygen species, hydrogen peroxide, superoxide proxy nitrate, nitric oxide, hypochlorite acid, or bleach. Your body releases this stuff to kill its target. Your immune system identifies the target, stimulates your body to make all these different things, uses your oxygen, which you would use for ATP, and shuttles it to make these reactive oxygen species. Then glutathione helps your body get rid of all those things. If you mount an immune response to mold and you have a hyper-immune system genetically, my wife’s TNF-alpha gene is super sensitive. TNF-alpha is one of the main genes associated with inflammation. 

Then some cytokines trickle from that. I sucked in immunology, so I just did not care about IL-seven, IL-10, IL-12, and 13. Just give me the basics. The basics are that you have TNF-alpha, and it will sound an alarm, and I am probably going to mess up a lot of things, but there are other cytokines too that are very inflammatory, and there are other cytokines that are not so inflammatory. They chill out the immune system, calm down the immune system, and glutathione supports your immune system to calm down as well. Vitamin D as well, modulates your immune system. My wife has a reduced ability to calm her immune system down. She has an enhanced ability for her immune system to get nuts. She is the chirping car, and then she has a heightened ability to create histamine. She has a reduced ability to clear histamine, which is also associated with an immune response. Then she has reduced vitamin D and receptor density.

Ann Shippy, MD

That all happens in encephalitis.

Ben Lynch, ND

Yes, so she got sick when she was 17 with juvenile rheumatoid arthritis. I think what happened was either there was mold in the school or she was in Russia, where she grew up, and then on top of that, she got an infection. Then her immune system just went nuts. You get an autoimmune disease when your immune system is attacking everything. That was, those are some, what? I did not talk about too many specific genes, and I know a lot of people are saying, ‘Well, what about MTHFR? Because you are the MTHFR guy. Well, much of ours is an important gene. It is kind of the hub of the entire methylation pathway, and the entire methylation pathway is just another major biochemical process in your body that does a lot of different things. A big one is for methylation, as it turns genes on and off, so you can methylate a gene, and some genes will turn on for methylation and some genes will turn off from methylation. It is kind of a trigger to turn genes on and off, and if your genes are turned off, they do not make the enzymes needed to perform a particular function. Imagine your genes as something that has a particular job to do. 

If you are running a business and you have a customer service person, a warehouse person, and a quality control person, I am talking about my business. That sounds good; yes, I know. and you have got your accountant and bookkeeper, and you are, okay, well, imagine two of those positions. They get sick or go on vacation. Well, what happens is that your business starts scrambling, and other people from other departments step in to try to compensate. But sometimes there is no cross-training, meaning that the accountant or bookkeeper does not know anything about customer service because they are just geeks behind the computer screens and they do not want to interact with humans. So they are horrible with customer service. Now other things are falling apart. 

The same thing happens with your body. If you have 18,000 genes and you have genetic variations that make you more susceptible to having a heightened response to mycotoxins, then your immune system goes bonkers. Okay, yes, we sounded the alarm here, but then you have a reduced ability to recover because you do not have the glutathione that is needed to calm everything down or the vitamin D to calm everything down, and you are low on glutathione because some doctor told you to take Tylenol, and you live in Seattle and there is no vitamin D for six months in the sky at all from the sun. Plus, you have been told to wear sunscreen all the time, so now your immune modulation is gone. You do not have all these other genes to step in and help you out. That is a huge problem. But going back to you, go ahead.

Ann Shippy, MD

I love your work, and what you teach about all of these different genes, though, is the workarounds. Yes, when you get into this situation where there is all this turmoil in your body, you can use some of the genetic knowledge to help determine which actions are most important.

Ben Lynch, ND

Absolutely, yes. Great point. It happened to me yesterday. I am jumping in the car to return our boat trailer from vacation. I borrowed it from a company, and the company is an hour away. I said, “I got to make this drive,” and I went on Google Maps. It is not having me take the main highway. I am taking all these side roads. What the hell is going on here? Then traffic is horrible. I finally made it home. I don’t even go back on the freeway again. I almost went on the freeway anyway. I was; maybe it is set to ‘beginner driver’ because I have a beginner driver in the house and they avoid fast roads. But I come home, and my oldest son goes, “Hey Dad, did you hear about the semi-truck that exploded on the freeway?”

Ann Shippy, MD

Oh, my gosh.

Ben Lynch, ND

I was, and that explains why. Your genes are yours by design. Imagine if there was only one highway through Seattle, and that was it. They would just make a mess of things. There are alternate routes, and I took an alternate route yesterday. Your body has redundant pathways; you have main pathways for things, but you also have redundancies built in. If we did not have redundancies, we would not be here on this planet today.

Ann Shippy, MD

I am glad that you are bringing this up because, a lot of times, there is so much more resilience that we can tap into. Why these back pathways?

Ben Lynch, ND

Yes, for sure. Yes. Glutathione is not the only game in town you have. You also have catalase. Catalase is not as pervasive. I do not think pervasive is the right word, but my head is full of forest fire smoke, so I am not as clear-minded as I should be.

Ann Shippy, MD

You are doing great.

Ben Lynch, ND

Yes. But yes, catalase is not. We have genes. You also have to understand how the genes function. Glutathione functions in genes in many places in your body, probably everywhere, including mitochondrial cells as well. Mitochondrial DNA does not. Well, you do not want to get involved with that. But yes, it is everywhere. Catalase is

Ann Shippy, MD

Less predominant.

Ben Lynch, ND

Yes. That is the word: predominant. There is still a backup. You can still function, but you are not functioning as well. Then, with histamine, there are primary detoxification pathways for histamine. If those get clogged up, then you are kind of struggling. But there is a minor route through acylation in 82 that will help you out a little bit. But, come allergy season or cold, come mold season when it is wetter or more humid, then your histamine pathway gets overwhelmed because you knock two genes; let us say it is a slow acceleration, and you are also exposed to car exhaust. You also have to understand that this is another key point. Genes that produce enzymes, and enzymes can have more than one job. Sometimes you can have a role in your business where the person in the warehouse can also do customer service well. They might also be a very good project manager, and who knows, they might also be good at bookkeeping. Okay, they are multi-talented. Those types of genes are wonderful for you because they can handle a lot. 

The problem with those types of genes is that they handle a lot, and if you tend to rely on them and overburden them and you do not, you push them down to the ground, and then those other supportive genes do not support them as well. Then you start getting sick. So I say that for folks: yes, I can drink a lot of alcohol way more than other people, or yes, I can walk down the aisles of Home Depot. I can work in the pesticide section at Home Depot without any problems. It is okay; do that for a year or two years, and you are going to start having problems. You cannot overburden the genes. But they do have the ability to do multiple different things as well. With the histamine genes, there is the MAOA gene that helps process not only histamine but also serotonin, norepinephrine, and epinephrine. and then you have the CMT gene. CMTG supports estrogen metabolism, dopamine, and norepinephrine. This is why PMS has become such a problem for some women because if the CMT gene metabolism is the brain to support the metabolism of estrogens and opening to norepinephrine, and the woman might have issues with detoxification from the mycotoxins, she might get horrible moods before her menses. It could be because our CMT has so much back pressure from excessive amounts of estrogen and excessive dopamine, and what do you have?

Ann Shippy, MD

I see that the CMTG is so common; could you explore that one a little bit? What if you knew you had those? What can you do about them?

Ben Lynch, ND

Yes. In my book “Dirty Genes,” I talk about CMT as CMT is a major player in emotions, cognitive abilities, focus, learning, memory, cancer, cardiovascular disease, and health. estrogen metabolism. That is why it is associated with heart cancer. It is a major player.

There is CMT, whose job it is to, well, again, process estrogens, dopamine, norepinephrine, and epinephrine, so imagine if you have high levels of dopamine and estrogen. You can become a rage monster. You just cannot control it. It is, “Here’s mom. She is; it is that time of the month again.” Here are all these jokes. Now it is no joke because the woman does not; she cannot control it. It is indeed happening. You can try to control it. But imagine if you are just so pissed off. You just say, “I got this. I got this,” and someone just keeps needling you. You’re just going to blow.

With CMT, a big one for that is first to reduce the load. If you know that you are going to have a tough time during certain periods of the month, then you need to reduce the stressors. Can you reduce the stressors while you can? But are people going to help you out with that? Can you reduce the stressors at work? Can you reduce the workload? Do you have the ability to say no when a project comes your way? People with slower CMT tend to be very good at working and getting things done, and they are very driven people. But that is a problem because if you are a very driven person and you are a woman and you are dealing with these things, then when your estrogen levels spike before ovulation, now you have estrogen influencing your mood as well, and you need to back off.

The first is awareness. If you do genetic testing and find out that you have a slower CMT, you say, “Okay, during this time of the month, I need to give myself more me’ time. I am going to schedule a massage. I am not going to take on these big projects. I am not going to do X, Y, and Z. My kids are going to be doing chores around the house, not me. I am going to go on a date with my husband”, things like that. The first is awareness. There have been some individuals. I have been doing genetic testing for a long time. There was one woman who said, “I have been struggling with assault CMT my entire life, and I got MTHFR, and I have a slow MAOA.” Her neurotransmitters are jacked, and what? Do you get stressed out? She says, “I lived in New City forever.” She goes, “I am after my genetic test.” I heard you say, “Sometimes, you just have to pick up and move.” She goes, “I bought five acres. I am out in the country.” She goes, “Life has never been better.”

Ann Shippy, MD

That is interesting.

Ben Lynch, ND

I said, “Good for you!”

Ann Shippy, MD

It was an uphill battle.

Ben Lynch, ND

You live where you live for various reasons. I am struggling here in Seattle. Because of various reasons. If your place of residence is not conducive to your mindset and your goals and desires, you should probably get up and move. Those are the big pictures. Now, let us say, What can you do nutritionally, Ben? I cannot just pick up and move. Well, lithium orotate is fantastic—it’s very good. I know there are a lot of fears. You hear about lithium and prescription medications, and that is a different game. That is.

Ann Shippy, MD

I use it with patients a lot. I just have to explain that it takes magnesium, zinc, and selenium. We do not have a great way to measure some of the other minerals. But the soil and the water—everything—are depleted in a lot of the areas of the country. A lot of us need some.

Ben Lynch, ND

Yes.  So, yes, lithium is just fantastic. There was one time when my son came down the stairs; he was studying for a final exam, and I was in the kitchen. I look up, and his hands are on the railing. “Hey, Dad, I think I need something. I think I am having a panic attack”. I said, “Damn, dude. It is okay”. I gave some lithium some herbal adaptogens and adaptogen sake. It usually takes a lot longer to work, but this formula also helps nip it in a little bit. But I knew he needed lithium because lithium can work pretty quickly. I gave him the lithium and this stuff, and he went back upstairs and started studying again. He tells that story to his friends all the time. He has buddies who have panic attacks. Yes, he knows, and it is funny. It is not funny; it’s great. He is part of a fraternity at Cal Poly in San Luis Obispo. He lives with 11 other guys. They have a wall about seeds and health supplements—just a wall.

Ann Shippy, MD

It is similar to one of my kids.

Ben Lynch, ND

Yes.

Ann Shippy, MD

Yes. It is you.

Ben Lynch, ND

Yes. They all have their regimen in the morning, and I just send it all down to him. He would say, Dad, we need another order. It is not; I need something. It’s We.

Ann Shippy, MD

My kids placed orders directly. They keep me out of the loop. They have an open credit card. It makes a difference for them.

Ben Lynch, ND

The key to supplementation is that a supplement is defined as something to add to or enhance. Okay. That is why I led with the lifestyle first. Because you are. Sometimes you cannot lead with your lifestyle, but you should try with any environment as well. I am sitting here, breathing smoky air. I got my air purifier going, but it is not working. Still, it is just bad.

Ann Shippy, MD

Sorry.

Ben Lynch, ND

Yes. It is just hazy out there. The sun is red. You should always lead with the environment, and supplementation is very effective. But I took glutathione this morning, and usually, when I take glutathione, I just feel my head go clear, and then I drink electrolytes, and it just finishes a job, and I am good to go. Today I had to go glutathione, and I drank electrolytes. Nothing. Damn. Here, I am breathing toxic air. If you are in your home, workplace, car, or wherever you are, or in a hotel, You keep inhaling mycotoxins. That glutathione is just going to do what it did to me. It is not going to do much. But sometimes,

Ann Shippy, MD

I hope it will stop soon.

Ben Lynch, ND

Yes, you can rebuild. But no, we were stuck in it for a few more days. All the windows are closed. It is hot. Yes, it is bad. But it is similar to mold. You cannot get away from it. You have to move out of these environments. Now, in Seattle, when it is hot, you get the forest fires, and when it is cold and damp, you get the mold. Say, come on now.

Ann Shippy, MD

There are different solutions there. What else do you do besides the lithium on the nutritional side?

Ben Lynch, ND

As you said, magnesium is great. Adaptogens I love. Herbal adaptogens. You got Rhodiola, and you have Eleuthero coccus. Siberian ginseng is fantastic, and it is nurturing as well. Panax ginseng is a very stimulating pot. I have a lot of books on herbal medicine behind me. I used to be very good at Ayurveda and Chinese herbal medicine, but my skills in those areas have gone down. But I get to reference them when I am formulating. But I like those two. Licorice is great. It is interesting. The adrenal cortex can be very useful as well. The adrenal cortex supports cortisol, but if your cortisol level is very low, you will be struggling. Your immune system will be flared. Your sleep is going to be all messed up. But you have to be careful with your adrenal cortex because it works very quickly; you only need it for a short burst, usually, unless you are depleted. I love taking adrenal cortex; it feels like grinding. The slower CMT folks grind. They go to the gym in the morning, and they wake up early no matter what. They go to work; they grind. When they come home, they jog around the house. They are grinding and grinding. They do not take vacations. Now their adrenals are shot. They are sucking down the caffeine, which further complicates the problem. Now they are losing magnesium and other things. Magnesium threonate is fantastic for sleep, but I do like it. Woah, major brain fog. Where was I? I was just talking about a particular

Ann Shippy, MD

Of the adrenal cortex.

Ben Lynch, ND

Yes, the adrenal cortex. My rule for the adrenal cortex is that if you are waking up earlier than you want to by a few hours, say your alarms at seven and you are waking up at four consistently, and you stare at the ceiling and you have to go downstairs and get a bite to eat, and you finally fall asleep at six, the alarm goes off, and sleep cycles around 90 minutes. Now you are struggling at seven, trying to get up. You are just lagging. Lagging. That is the perfect time to take your adrenal cortex. If you wake up very early in the morning and you are waking up tired, you are taking the adrenal cortex. At the time you want to wake up, ideally, when your cortisol spike is, that is when you wake up that is useful.

Now if you wake up, let us say you are taking the adrenal cortex for a week or five days. You wake up one morning before your alarm at 6:58 before 7. Sweet, and you just pop out of bed. Do not use your adrenal cortex. You are good. If you take the adrenal cortex now, you will become a rage monster.

Ann Shippy, MD

Then you will get too high.

Ben Lynch, ND

You will get too high. You do not do that; you will just skip it. What if I fall off the wagon again? Then you can take the adrenal cortex. Okay, that is how to use the adrenal cortex. I also use it when I travel in different time zones. I would go to Japan, England, or what have you. I would take my adrenal cortex, my B12, and my methyl folate upon waking, and that would just get me in the zone instantly. It was great. I could be using some right now.

Ann Shippy, MD

I think it could help you right now.

Ben Lynch, ND

I had it on my desk. I was looking for it.

Ann Shippy, MD

Anything more kind of in the histamine pathway and the

Ben Lynch, ND

Yes. 

Ann Shippy, MD

Before we move on to glutathione,

Ben Lynch, ND

Yes. Let us do that. The histamine pathway is not as simple as a lot of people make it out to be. It is simple. Once you see it and understand it and how it all works, then, if there is, you are good. But a lot of doctors look at history and say, Oh, you are high on histamine, then you are not methylating very well. Okay, that might be valid, and the reason they say that is because histamine is the primary. Remember, multiple genes have multiple jobs. The primary route for histamine is to go through a gene called HTMT, which listens to the names histamine and methyltransferase. It transfers the methyl group from SAMe, which is made possible by the MTHFR gene that is connected. The MTHFR genes support the methylation cycle, in which all it does is make this methyl group, recycle it, and mix it again and again so it can give it away. 

The MTHFR gene helps recycle the SAMe compound, and that SAMe binds to the HTMT enzyme, which supports the HTMT enzymes to function. Then, when that functions, the methyl group binds to the histamine. Histamine comes into the HTMT enzyme, and it comes out as N-methyl histamine. It just slapped a methyl group on it. Now MTHFR says, Oh, I got to recycle the SAMe again so I can give it to another, help give it to another HTMT enzyme, so it can process the histamine and convert it into N-methyl histamine. You say I am done. No, you are not done. You have to have a healthy methylation pathway. You have to have a healthy MTHFR enzyme for that to happen. A good check for these folks is homocysteine. Check your homocysteine levels. If your homocysteine levels are between six, seven, and eight, that is pretty good. In kids, it does tend to be lower. Do not tend to get freaked out because kids are using their methylation system way faster. Their homocysteine levels are lower because of it. But if you see a lower homocysteine, you need to eat more protein, and people do not talk about this enough. Low homocysteine is a problem. 

I am going to just detour a little bit on this. If you are an adult and your homocysteine is four, and people who are struggling with mycotoxins and mold probably have a higher prevalence of, I should not say probably, but I would say there may be an increased prevalence of low homocysteine because homocysteine is not a bad compound. Homocysteine becomes your glutathione. We will get to glutathione here in a second. But with methylation pathways, you want to make sure that your homocysteine is between six and eight. Ask your doctor to check your homocysteine. Most doctors will not do it if your doctor will not do it. Find a different doctor. You are the boss; do not forget, you are the boss. You are the one hiring and doing the firing. Fire fast, hire slowly.

Ann Shippy, MD

I agree. There are companies where you can just go directly and do classroom testing through any lab test now.

Ben Lynch, ND

Perfect. Yes, that’s great. That’s great advice. But so now you have, if you have the histamine, methylated histamine, and you think, Okay, well yes, the body will just get rid of it; I will not have any more histamine. No, N-methyl histamine; if it accumulates, it can tell that the HTMT enzyme has stopped working. Well, yes, but why would it accumulate? Because there is another enzyme involved, I need to check my biochemical pathway because I always forget that the next one is now MAOA. Nobody talks about monoamine oxidase, or MAOA, in regards to histamine, and all that serotonin that is related to serotonin—well, it is related to serotonin, but it is also related to histamine. It does different jobs. HTMT has only one job, and that is the process. 

Histamine MAOA has multiple different jobs—tons of different jobs. If methyl histamine gets stuck and cannot go through the MAOA enzyme, then the N-methyl histamine accumulates and shuts down the HTMT from functioning. Even if you have a healthy methylation pathway, when your doctor says, Oh, you are undermethylated because you are high on histamine and they give you SAMe, methyl folate, or methylcobalamin and you find no benefit at all, or trimethylglycine, choline, creatine, or what have you, none of those help you at all. Maybe in some amount. Then, probably, your MAOA enzyme is potentially clogged, most likely clogged. So what nutrient is that? That’s riboflavin.  Riboflavin is also associated with recycling glutathione. This conversation about methylation and glutathione works well because the glutathione pathway is connected to the methylation pathway. That’s why we keep crossing these two things. So when you understand the methylation cycle and what it does and the glutathione pathway and what it does, you understand so much, and you might have a headache from this, but it is okay. Just listen to it again and read the book, Dirty Genes Simple.

Ann Shippy, MD

What I love, though, is that, as you are describing it, this is complex biochemistry and genetics, but what is so clear is the association between toxicity, the environment, our genes, and nutrients.

Ben Lynch, ND

Yes.

Ann Shippy, MD

We need to focus on getting the right nutrients in to help these pathways work more optimally. Knowing the genes and the nutrients can be great tools in the toolbox.

Ben Lynch, ND

Yes, it is phenomenal. I gave a talk in Canada when I was first starting. It was probably 2014 or 2013, and I gave a talk on methylation, MTHFR, the nutrients associated with environmental chemicals, and all that. I am at the podium about to step away, and this older gentleman comes up. They are all doctors and he goes, I just want to say, “Thank you.” I said, “Yes, you are welcome.” He goes, “No, no, thank you.” I sort of say, “Yes; you are welcome.” It means no. “Thank you from a naturopathic medical perspective, because what you are doing is validating, and you are scientifically proving the importance of lifestyle, environment, mindset, and nutrition all at the same time.” I was, “Yes, you are right. I never thought about that.” It is incredibly important.

Ann Shippy, MD

Yes. You have been a pioneer in looking at these pathways and how they all work together, as well as the genetics, which I am so enjoying.

Ben Lynch, ND

Yes, it is. It has been very difficult because, when I was reading the research on methylation and MTHFR, I was just like everyone else; I was having a headache. I was lost. I was confused. I do not understand why I could just not give methyl folate to everybody; I did not get it. Then I finally got it, and you go down another rabbit hole, and then I say, Okay, I just got to start writing these things down. I took pieces of paper and started writing them down. Those writing them down became pathways, which I use for teaching. To this day, I still use them. Thank you for referencing it right now.

Ann Shippy, MD

Yes. 

Ben Lynch, ND

You cannot remember all this stuff. It is just not possible. The body is so intricate, complex, and beautiful. It is never-ending. I remember the first time I would make a circle, and I had to have homocysteine down here. I have glutathione down here. Then I had methionine and MTHFR, and I drew it all out. Then I had methyl folate, methylcobalamin, histamine, and all that stuff—I realized that glutathione was so central to the methylation pathway. Oh my God, I put my hands on my desk. I was. That is beautiful. What I learned was that in your methylation cycle,  you need to process histamine; you need to turn on and turn off genes; and you need to clear a lot of other things too and make things. If your methylation cycle is low glutathione, if you have low glutathione in your body, your methylation cycle does not function in a very important manner. It just stops. Well, why would it do that? But it stops. Then it will drive the homocysteine down to make more glutathione. Homocysteine is a key marker for, well, a major key marker for seeing if your methylation pathway is working well or not. If it is high, then things are stuck. You are not doing glutathione; you are not doing a lot of things. But when I realized that the body will slow methylation down to preferentially create more glutathione, that tells you how important glutathione is.

Ann Shippy, MD

Let us dig into that a little bit.

Ben Lynch, ND

Yes.

Ann Shippy, MD

Let us, I think, in a summit we have tossed around glutathione quite a lot, but we have not explained, and there are ways why it is so important.

Ben Lynch, ND

Yes. If you have been to the doctor and have had heart issues, pregnancy issues, or what have you? You have a good integrative doctor, and they checked your homocysteine levels, which were elevated. You tend to have a negative association with homocysteine, which is bad. I need to lower it as much as I can. No, even for lab testing companies, if it is greater than 15 micromoles per liter or whatever it is. That’s a high level. Well, 15 is way too high. It needs to be six, seven, or eight. That’s pretty good. Seven is great, but six, seven, eight. Yes. You are good. Nine, ten, you start, you have to start improving some things by reducing protein intake, maybe taking more than that. What have you got? 

But homocysteine is not bad. Homocysteine is a starting point for your glutathione levels. Okay, so have the mindset that histamine is also not bad. Do not think that you have to clear out all your histamine. If you clear out all your histamine, you are going to be dumb. You are not going to be focused, you are not going to be awake, and your immune system is not going to respond to things. It needs to be responded to. If you get bit by a mosquito or something, you will not have any welts. It will not be itchy, but you will also not be processing those things.

Ann Shippy, MD

When you list those things again as the symptoms of low histamine.

Ben Lynch, ND

Yes, dumb, tired, inability to have an active immune system, erectile dysfunction, lack of orgasm—those are all.

Ann Shippy, MD

Said Yes. You just gave the best example there because sometimes when people are addressing the histamines that she is, she is the way over. Those people feel horrible.

Ben Lynch, ND

Here is an example. Our son got stung by a bee or a wasp in our yard here at home because I do not spray chemicals on our grass. We have clover all over the place, and we got the white little clover, and we have honey bees all over the place, which is great. Our neighbor, as you can see from the line of our lawns connecting, does not have weeds in his yard. it is. His grass is dead, and the kids run and play football from our yard in his yard because he is a great guy and lets us run in there. But the kids just hate going on his grass. It just does not feel good. Ours feels great, and it looks great, but we have clovers. He stepped on a wasp. Stung his foot, crap, that hurt. 

Then we go camping. If you get an insult in the same area repeatedly, your immune system is on hyper-alert. So he got stung again by a wasp, literally in the same spot, and his foot swelled up. I could do the edema test. I put my thumb below his ankle, and I could see my thumb printed down, and you got some swelling. He did not have any breathing problems, but our camping buddy had some Benadryl. I said, Take some Benadryl, which is an antihistamine. Did this not make this worse and get your leg elevated? I massaged it, and have you put a sock on there as well? Then I gave him some of my histamine supplements then he woke up the next morning, and I could just tell he was just dragging. Just dragging. I was. Yes, I think those antihistamines got. He goes, Yes. He goes, Dad. I just feel stupid, and I am so tired. What I did was give them some adrenal cortex. But what I should have also done was give him some; we did not, and I do not think we had it. But in that situation, that is when you want to eat some histamine. Have some kombucha and some orange juice. Have something that has higher histamine levels than you would usually avoid.

Ann Shippy, MD

Like Sauerkraut. Yes.

Ben Lynch, ND

Yes exactly. You are struggling with these high histamine symptoms, and you have been for a long period, and you are saying, Guys, I think maybe I swung myself too low because you are describing me to a T. It happens quickly. Last night, I took one of my histamine supplements just to, I do not know, play with it because my wife needed it.

Ann Shippy, MD

With the fires going on, I am sure your immune system’s a little cranky.

Ben Lynch, ND

Yes, something.  So I was like, What the hell? I will just take it and have a good sleep. Because if you have too much histamine, you will not fall asleep. You stare at the ceiling, and I have a slow MTHFR, so my histamine pathway can also be clogged. I was like, What the hell? I will just take one serving size too. It is not as strong and has so little histamine that you will fall asleep. In fact, on the back of the anti-histamine package is Sudafed, or what have you? It says right there, Warning: Do not operate heavy machinery or what have you because you might cause drowsiness. Anyway, yes, that is the low histamine side of it,