Mast Cell Activation Syndrome (MCAS) and PEMF Therapy

Riz Lakhani, L. Ac., M. Ac

Hello, this is Riz from DrPawluk.com. And today I’m here for a really informative session with Beth O’Hara. And Beth is a functional naturopath, and she specialize in everything mast cells and mast cell activation syndrome. And I’m gonna let Beth introduce herself. So Beth, thank you for joining us, and can you tell us a little bit about yourself and how you got into all this stuff?

Beth O’Hara, FN

I’d be happy. Thank you so much, Riz, for having me here. And I find that when we talk about mast cell activation syndrome, for a lot of people who’ve been struggling with these complex mystery conditions, that this can turn on a lot of light bulbs, particularly those people who have been going from doctor to doctor to doctor. Those are the ones that we really want to listen to this talk. And so, a little about myself, I have a master’s in marriage and family therapy and a doctorate in naturopathy, and I run a clinic called Mast Cell 360. The way I got into all of this, and that’s an online remote consulting practice, but the way I got into it was actually my own health journey. So when I was young, I really wanted to go to medical school. And I don’t mean, like, a lot of kids wanna be a doctor. I mean, I was so driven. I wanted “Gray’s Anatomy” for my 16th birthday. And I lived out in the country, and I would find the bleached bones of the cow skeletons, and then I’d wanna put ’em all back together and figure out how their bodies worked, how their skeletons would work and things like that. So I was a pretty geeky kid, and this was so critical for me. And I had my own health issues that started early in. We had moved to this old farmhouse. And we didn’t know anything. I’m in my forties. I mean, nobody back then in the early ’80s knew anything about mold. They didn’t know anything about Lyme. 

A lot of people still didn’t know about these things. And the farmhouse was, of course, full of mold. It was over a hundred years old. We were running around playing outside, which was a lotta fun and felt like Laura Ingalls Wilder kinda, you know, childhood. But we got bit by ticks all the time. And my health just kept going downhill. Went from doctor to doctor, ’cause I would be just covered head to toe in hives. No one else in my family was having these issues, but I would be scratching my skin ’til I bled. And then I had a head injury when I was nine and started having a lot of sleep issues and anxiety. And I pushed through, I made it into undergrad and pre-med. And I became so ill in college, and I moved into a duplex that had more mold. You could smell it in the basement. I didn’t know it was a problem, I thought it was just a nuisance. But I crashed so hard that I barely finished out my bachelor’s degree. And I’d had a few scholarship offers to med school, and I had to turn them all down. 

It was just devastating, Riz. And I had to figure out what in the world I was gonna do with myself. And I share that story because I know it’s a lotta people’s stories, where they had these hopes and these dreams, and then this chronic mystery illness comes over them and nobody can figure it out. So instead of becoming, I wanted to be a neurologist or maybe going into neurosurgery. So that was, you know, I like to dream big. And instead, I could barely walk across the room. You know, my joints were like walking on ground glass. It was so painful. I could barely hobble to the bathroom. My friends were going out dancing, and I was wearing orthopedic shoes and using the little scooter in the grocery store to be able to pick up my food. And I saw dozens and dozens of traditional healthcare, and then I started in alternative. This was before functional medicine really had come to the area where I lived in. And all the people, I tried homeopathy, I tried therapy, I tried shamanic work. And everyone I saw said I was the most complex person they’d ever worked with. And the best ones said, “I’m so sorry, I just don’t know what to do.” And the ones that had too much fear, probably, or judgment, would tell me that I wanted to be sick and I was crazy. It was in my head. And I started to believe it at one point, which is why I did therapy. You know, I was like, well, I’ll do anything. I was trying so hard to get well. 

So to have somebody tell me you wanna be sick was also really devastating. But the big turning point came when I learned about mast cell activation syndrome. Went oh my gosh, this ties together all the GI issues that I have, the brain fog, the extreme insomnia, the panic attacks and the anxiety, the skin symptoms that I had, the sinus issues. At this point, I developed a lotta food intolerances. I was done to about 10 foods I could tolerate. And I was barely tolerating those. And then I lost supplements. I lost my ability to tolerate supplements and medications. Things were just continuing to snowball. And I realized there is something that ties all this together. These aren’t separate issues. But hardly anybody knew about this. This was before 2016 when mast cell activation syndrome got a diagnostic code. No one was specializing in it hardly. No one in my area, and this was before telehealth. So I didn’t have access to all these people. But at least I had that pre-med background. And every minute that I could get my brain pulled together, I started studying and researching. Because at this point I had seen over 50 practitioners. I stopped counting at 75, but I’d seen over 50. And I thought if I’m nothing else, I’m tenacious.

Riz Lakhani, L. Ac., M. Ac

Yeah, absolutely.

Beth O’Hara, FN

And I’m persistent. And that’s why I got my life back. And I studied everything I could get my hands on. I started study everything that was written. Now functional medicine was starting to come out and there were textbooks. I was just studying and learning, studying and learning. How do we peel all this back, and realizing, oh, there are things underneath that are triggering these mast cells. The mast cells themselves aren’t the issue. And I did, I got my life back, I went back to graduate school, and I knew there was this connection between what was going on emotionally and spiritually, not it’s in your head, but from what happens, these links between stress states, and the immune system, and the rest of the body. So that’s why I started with that masters in marriage and family therapy and then went into naturopathy. And now I can go hiking, I’m doing 45 minutes on the treadmill. I don’t wear heels very often, but I can if I want to, which is exciting for a woman. And I don’t have every food back I possibly wanna eat, but I have a huge variety of foods. I can take almost any supplement I need to take. And I’m doing quite well. It was a huge turnaround, and it feels like a whole different life. So I just wanted to share that part to give people hope, because I know what it’s like to be in those dark places where you don’t know where to turn and you don’t know what to do next.

Riz Lakhani, L. Ac., M. Ac

That is really an amazing story. And thankfully, you were so persistent and, you know, didn’t give up, because if not, then, you know, you wouldn’t have gotten to the point you have, being able to discover all this knowledge and look beneath the surface. I think it just goes to show us that, you know, a lotta times we might sort of lose hope if we can’t see a particular problem, or if we can’t have it obviously show up on a test. But clearly there are negative, you know, forms of stimulation out there, and pathogens and things that we aren’t always gonna know about, but they cause these uncomfortable symptoms. So, man, you really had to go through a lot to get to the bottom of this, but I’m so thankful that you did and have been able to develop your expertise in this area. And so now you help people all across the world or all across the country that deal with similar things, right?

Beth O’Hara, FN

That’s right. So, I started in person. I actually was really under the radar and had an in-person practice for quite a while. And then we went all online a few years ago, which I love, because then we can reach a lot of different people in different areas. And we used to work internationally. We’ve had to hone in since COVID, and shipping issues, and so many customs issues. We’re based just solely in the United States right now. But we work with people who are struggling with these complex chronic mystery issues. They generally have mast cell type symptoms, which we can get into. And I work with them from the very beginning. People who are usually pretty sensitive, like I was, struggling to figure out what kinda supplements they can tolerate, working with the foods, figuring out what they can eat. And my goal with them is not just to help people get their health back, but to also get back to living their hopes, living their dreams, getting back to their lives with their families. But that’s what it’s really about. And people do that. One of the cases that comes to mind for me was there a young woman, very young, having multiple seizures a day, and she was in a wheelchair. And she was barely able to form full sentences. She couldn’t write in paragraphs. She was 18. And in this work that we do, and it’s a lotta work. I don’t wanna make it sound like it’s easy. It’s a lot of work. But within a year, she was outta that wheelchair, no seizures. She was back to writing full sentences. She was applying to colleges and talking like a normal 18 year old. Whereas when I had met at her, she couldn’t even listen to conversation for 15 minutes. That’s how fried her nervous system was. And that’s where many of us get to, and that’s linked to those sensitivities, is this fried nervous system.

Riz Lakhani, L. Ac., M. Ac

Yeah, that makes sense, because the nervous system, of course, has an important role in helping us perceive the world, and, you know, move our bodies the way that we want to, and communicate with the external world. So, that’s quite fascinating. And what are some of the other symptoms that folks have, besides some of the things you mentioned, like brain fog and very heightened nervous system and sensitivity. You mentioned something previously about GI issues. Are those pretty common, and are there other symptoms that people get with MCAS?

Beth O’Hara, FN

It’s quite interesting. This is what has made this condition so mystifying and has taken it a long time, both to get the credit that it deserves and for people to get the recognition this is what’s going on with their body, because we have these mast cells. They’re really important frontline defender and sensing cells of the immune system. And we have them in nearly every single tissue in the body. There’s hardly anywhere we don’t have mast cells. Maybe, like, the retina doesn’t have mast cells, so that’s one example. But particularly places where the body meets the outside world. And this helps in understanding the symptoms, so that’s why I’m describing this first. That the skin has a lot of mast cells, the lining of the nasal passages, the sinuses, the, you know, linings of the ears. The whole GI tract, from the mouth, esophagus, all the way down, trachea, the lungs, tissues around the eyes. There are mast cells in the bladder and the urethra. There’s mast cells in the genital tissues. There’s mast cells in the liver, in the spleen, in the muscles, in the heart. And one of the things that’s really fascinating, and we’ll come back to, is that there are mast cells at every nerve ending. 

And these mast cells have receptors on the outside. And that’s how they’re sensing what’s happening. And you think about where they’re positioned, the mast cells are really sensing every molecule of air, of food, of water, and they’re also sensing, with being positioned at the nervous system, they’re sensing every thought, every emotion. They’re sensing stress. They’re quite tuned in, often much more than our awareness is, of what’s going on. And their job is to keep us safe. So an example of that would be, and these are very old cells, evolutionarily. If we’re thinking evolutionarily, these have been very primitive, but very complex. And if we’ve eaten something that has bacteria in it, it’s not good for us, the mast cells are gonna be part of that initial, creating nausea, creating vomiting, and then causing some of the other immune cells to come in. I cut my hand the other day. And I was doing something silly. I was using a knife to try to chip apart some things that were frozen that I wanted to eat. And I just stabbed my hand. And I didn’t get it cleaned out fast enough. And it started to get red and swollen. And a lotta people can relate to that. You get a splinter, you’re gardening and you cut your hand, or something like that. That initial redness, swelling, some itching sometimes, that’ll be a mast cell response. 

And what that’s doing is releasing mediators to create inflammation to surround that area and protect that area from the bacteria and other organisms that might be invading. And then they’ll release what are called cytokines, which are immune cell messengers. And that’s become a household word now. Mast cells are at the core of that. And call more of the immune response in. They’re also involved in wound healing, they have roles in pregnancy, all kinds of roles in the body. So if you think about, these mast cells have over 200 receptor types. They have receptor types for other cell signaling molecules, like cytokines. They have receptor types for bacteria, viruses, molds, candida. They have receptor types for stress, for hormones, there are estrogen receptors on them, and progesterone receptors. They have receptors that medications dock on and trigger. So you’ve got over 200 receptors. Then we have over 1,000 mediators within these mast cells. That’s been documented. Histamine’s the best well known and described. Most people have heard of histamine and antihistamines. We’ve got cytokines. We also have prostaglandins, we have interleukins. There are so many types of mediators that can be released, even some neurotransmitters. So these mast cells will release neurotransmitters that communicate to the nervous system. And then they have receptors for neurotransmitters, and they receive signals from there. So you get this feedback loop with the nervous systems, this constant communication. 

When you think about that, you think about all the locations, 200 receptors, over 1,000 mediators, the number of permutations of possible what’s happening in the body is extraordinary. And that’s why the symptoms can look so varied. So I describe this because a lot of people have been told if you don’t have itching and you don’t have hives or rashes, you can’t have mast cell activation syndrome. And that’s some outdated thinking that just needs to be updated. It’s not entirely true. Not everybody has skin symptoms, and not all mast cells are gonna be involved in every person. Now, some people do, and they may have really severe symptoms. That’s not as common. What we have is symptoms in two or more systems. So we may have those GI type symptoms. So I’m gonna talk about systems. So if we think about the GI system, then somebody may have any combination of heartburn. They may have esophageal swelling, when they go to eat food and they get some throat closing. They may have stomach burning. They may have diarrhea or constipation, inflammation in the GI tract. Get those types of symptoms. If somebody has involvement in the cardiovascular system, talking about arteries and veins, they may end up, and this is more complex, and this is kinda simplifying it, but one of the things that’s common is low blood pressure. Can also be high blood pressure, depending on which mediators are being released. And then you have this nervous system involvement that’s so close with that. 

We can’t separate that out. So if you get nervous system cardiovascular involvement, you can have things like POTS, things like dysautonomia. You can have heart palpitations. And that’s one that bothers people a lot, are those heart palpitations, where they just feel like their heart is racing, they can’t calm it down. That’s fairly common. In the nervous system, we can have all kinds of symptoms. So, we can have strange nerve sensations. We can have depression, anxiety, brain fog, sleep disturbances. People have trouble falling asleep, they have trouble staying asleep. Any combination of those things. We can have the skin symptoms. Things that are involved can be itching, hives. Things like psoriasis, eczema are related. Flushing, ruddy cheeks are common. So I never wear blush because I don’t need to. My cheeks are always kinda ruddy. Or people may have a pale complexion. And a common thing, if people have a skin involvement, it’s what’s called dermatographia, which is where you could write your name in your skin and it would stay really pale, really white or really red for quite some time. 

Or if you scratch, then you’re gonna have lines for quite some time. There are also links with hypermobility and EDS if there’s connective tissue involvement. Then we’ve got the sinuses. There’s common, if people have sinus involvement, they have post nasal drip. And they’ll be throat clearing kinda things. My husband used to always think I was trying to get his attention. I’m like, no, it’s just a faucet back here, that’s all it is. And people can have muscle pain, they can have bone pain. This is why it can look so different. So I may have one case that’s entirely GI, food intolerances, sleep issues, anxiety. And then somebody else, those aren’t their issues, but they’re having, I’ve had people where their skin was peeling off in sheets. Just horrible condition. Or they’ve got the hives, the psoriasis, these kind of presentations. And really significant menstrual issues. There can be reproductive symptoms that are involved. The real question is what’s driving this mast cell over-activation, which is what it is. The mast cells are getting overly sensitive and they’re over-releasing these mediators in mast cell activation syndrome. And that’s the way through, is to look at what’s underneath. Why is this happening, and address that part.

Riz Lakhani, L. Ac., M. Ac

So, I can’t help but think that, you know, with such a wide variety of things that could show up, of symptoms or problems that somebody could present with, you know, how would we know that they’re dealing with mast cell activation syndrome? Is there any sort of test that could be run? Or is it something that we just kind of, you might almost right off the bat know that somebody’s dealing with that, just based on the wide variety of things going on? Is there any way to know for sure that that’s what it is?

Beth O’Hara, FN

It’s challenging. It’s a good question. So, one, it has to be multi-systemic. If somebody just has pollen allergies, that’s not mast cell activation. Mast cells are involved, but it’s not mast cell cell activation syndrome. It’s two or more systems, an inflammatory involvement in two or more systems. And then there is testing. The testing’s quite limited at this point in time, and it’s challenging to get good testing. So, one, we only have testing for about 10 of the mediators out of 1,000. That’s not good percentage.

Riz Lakhani, L. Ac., M. Ac

No.

Beth O’Hara, FN

And if somebody doesn’t have involvement in those mediators, okay, now what. The other thing is that these samples have to be, they have to be kept chilled through the entire process, from they immediate drawing all the way through, including the processing. And not a lotta labs have the ability to do things like cold centrifuging. So, that’s challenging. And these mediators can be up and down in the bloodstream. So some practitioners who really rely on testing to get diagnosis, now, I don’t do of diagnostics, but for people that do see patients in person and they’re doing the diagnostics, some will have their patients trigger a flare, eat things they know are gonna make them inflamed, or expose themselves to things like paint smells, or gasoline smells, or mold that’s gonna make them inflamed, and then have them come in and get the testing every hour on the hour to hopefully get that. So, that’s part of this diagnostic process. It’s an evolution. There’s two kinda camps in terms of this testing, that’s still going through these debates. One says that tryptase should be elevated in mast cell activation syndrome. And the other says that tryptase is rarely elevated. I don’t see it elevated in the people that I’ve worked with. Tryptase gets used to rule out things like mastocytosis and some other genetic conditions involving mast cells. Then there’s a third part of the current criteria, which, again, all in evolution, but the third part is that there should be some improvement with a mast cell stabilizing medication or antihistamine. 

And one of the challenges there is that, except for cromolyn sodium, these medications, as they’re formulated, have mast cell triggers in them as inactive ingredients. Things like titanium dioxide, dyes, corn starch, talc. And then you don’t know, unless somebody’s getting everything purely compounded, if that’s gonna be affecting them. And people can have such significant nervous system dysregulation, their nervous system and mast cell access, which is how I think of it, is just gonna fire at everything, doesn’t matter what it is. So sometimes you’ve gotta calm that nervous system down to even tell. So, all this to say it’s challenging. How do we make this simple for people? Again, coming back to if there’s inflammation in two or more systems in the body, and they have inflammatory underlying key triggers. And some of the biggest that I see, number one biggest is mold toxicity. And then number two is Lyme and other tick borne infections. It’s almost impossible to have those and not have some mast cell involvement. It can happen, but once people really spiral down to significant inflammation, there’s gonna be some mast cell involvement somewhere. And the way that I approach it is the same, regardless of whether somebody can get that official diagnostic criteria or not. We’re gonna calm down their nervous system, calm down their mast cells, and then support them in addressing those underlying triggers.

Riz Lakhani, L. Ac., M. Ac

So, this is something where it seems like a therapy like PEMF therapy could be very helpful, because one of the basic mechanism, basic actions of PEMF therapy is to reduce inflammation. And so, and it works at the cellular level, because you have the charge inside of magnetic fields, which is able to travel through the body no matter where it is. You know, nothing stops a magnetic field, with the exception of metal, which magnetic fields will go around. And so, you know, as somebody who specializes in acupuncture, if somebody with these really mysterious symptoms came in, it would be really difficult to try and figure out where to start. You know, do you wanna focus on the cardiovascular system, or do you wanna focus on the sleep or the gut health microbiome? There’s so many different moving pieces, but being able to have a therapy like PEMF therapy, we can essentially treat the whole body, or we can treat the areas of the body that are in more in distress, and have the ability to reduce inflammation that’s there. Healthy cells typically ignore the magnetic field, so it really is going to be going to work where it needs to. 

And a lotta times in my world, I actually visibly see this, because when you have strong magnetic field therapy systems, you can see areas of the body respond, or the patient can feel it in particular areas. So for instance, if I have a big pad over somebody’s chest, they might only be aware of the sensation in a very particular precise spot there. And that’s a clue that there’s more inflammation present. And so, being able to have a tool that lets us kind of work on everything simultaneously I think is really valuable for situations like this, where there’s just so much going on, it almost can be tricky where to start. And then of course, all the nerve cells, the neurons, the entire nervous system will respond initially, first to magnetic field therapy, because that is part of our external connection to the world. You start to get nervous system relaxing and stress reduction. I can only imagine that the people you deal with are going through lots and lots of stress, and that’s gotta be a big part of the whole picture.

Beth O’Hara, FN

Yeah, I’d love to talk more about the nervous system involvement, and then loop this back in into some very practical tips around PEMF for this population. And when people are dealing with this type of very complex, intense chronic illness, the nervous system get significantly dysregulated. Some of the major dysregulation of the nervous system are going to be chronic stressors, early childhood traumas, which are quite common in this population. About 60% of my practice, people have had early childhood traumas. This can be abuse, can be a direct, any kind of physical, mental, emotional. A lotta people don’t even realize that some of the experiences they had were early mental abuse or emotional abuse. Particularly manipulation can be really hard to pick up on. Physical or sexual abuse, that’s clear. Mental emotional abuse is more insidious in some ways. There’s lot of that. Or it can be having witnessed abuse as a child, having watched a parent be abused, or having been at a friend’s house and watch this going on. That triggers danger in our systems. It can also be having had a surgery that wasn’t understood. Even surgeries in adults can be a form of trauma. Car accidents are forms of trauma. Lots of forms of trauma. We have actually a very traumatized population. We don’t talk about it. And especially the last few years, oh my gosh, we’re living in a global state of PTSD. And I do stress ratings, stress scales on everybody that comes in, and I watch them jettison the levels up in the first two years of this pandemic. 

And just all the stress everyone’s under. So that kinda, even just the chronic stressors where, we live crazy lifestyles that are not conducive to health, especially when we look at in comparison to a traditional population. So, a traditional culture that, they’re really in touch with the land, they’re in these natural rhythms. Their main focus every day is to, you know, gather food, preserve food, just take care of their wellbeing day to day. And they’re not paying bills. They’re not worried about getting the kids to this soccer game, and that basketball game, and this, all on the same day. You know, they’re not dealing with those things. Our lives are kinda crazy in comparison. And so, we have those disruptors. Mold toxins are another huge disruptor of both the nervous system and the immune system. And mold toxins are at an epidemic level now. There’s a number of reasons for that. But even in the past 20 years, mold toxicity has skyrocketed. Because of what’s happening both in climate change, and the amount of types of flooding, the humidity levels in people’s homes, building code changes, and the EMFs and the Wi-Fi, that we have more devices in our homes, we have smart homes now. And that increases mold growth in people’s homes that’s being documented and observed.

Riz Lakhani, L. Ac., M. Ac

Oh, that’s fascinating.

Beth O’Hara, FN

And it’s a direct dysregulation of the nervous system. It keeps the nervous system in fight or flight, it disrupts the vagal nerve signaling, the limbic signaling. And then these tick borne infections have a huge impact on the nervous system as well. And they’ve become quite common, I think because our bodies are weakened from all of the intergenerational toxins, that we’re consuming and then passing on to the next generation. So they’ve found even in cord blood for infants that are being born, they’re finding high levels of toxins in that cord blood. So we’re not starting at the same, you know, ladder rung that we were starting at 100 years ago with our health.

Riz Lakhani, L. Ac., M. Ac

The odds are stacked against us.

Beth O’Hara, FN

It is, and the generations are getting sicker. And we’re really observing that. And so there’s a big role in this nervous system dysregulation and mast cell activation. And in my practice, I think of people being in three categories. I have people who I, in my head, call ’em type one, type two, type three. So, type one is super sensitive. They’re people like I was. They’re having trouble tolerating foods, they can’t tolerate supplements. Everything that should be helping them, they can’t get on board. Then I have the type two I think about, the sensitive complex. So, they’re kind of sensitive. They’re sensitive to some supplements, to some foods, but it’s easier to get some things on board if we go in the right order of operations. And that’s the real key in all these cases, unlocking it. And then type three would be kinda easy complex. They’re complex, but they’re gonna tolerate pretty much anything I give them, I recommend to them. They can do blends of supplements and things like that. I don’t get a lot of those cases, but I get some of those. With all three of these, I start people with nervous system rebooting. Again, because, and the reason I described this is that those mast cells being in every nerve ending, what’s happening in these complex illnesses is we are in this constant state of survival and danger. And there’s a few models that describe this really well. One’s called cell danger response. And that was described by Dr. Robert Naviaux. And one by Dr. Isaac Eliaz, called survival paradox. 

And they’re both really nice models of looking at this from various angles, that when our nervous system is in this state of fight or flight end danger mode, the mast cells, which are at the interface between the nervous system and the rest of the body, they’re gonna be pumping out these inflammatory molecules to try to protect us. And they’re doing their job, but it’s really uncomfortable. And it can be really painful and excruciating to have that. So, one of the first inroads to healing, get out of the danger. So if somebody’s in a toxic relationship, abusive relationship, that has to end for people to heal. You can’t heal in that. If you’re constantly attacked or bombarded, emotionally, mentally, physically, sexually, whatever’s happening. And then get out of toxins. Get out of mold toxins, chemical toxins, those kinds of things, so that this alarm bell can get turned off. ‘Cause it’s like the alarm bell’s just ringing nonstop. But sometimes for people, even when they get out, it’s like the nervous system got stuck. The on switch got stuck on, and it’s gonna take work to shift and even convince the nervous system that you’re really out of the danger. So this is where all three of those types can benefit. The people that are that super sensitive, type one, or that type two, sensitive complex, they’re gonna need more help there. To tie this into PEMF, people that are in that super sensitive group, they may see PEMF initially as a threat. And I want people, if they’ve not had a good experience with it, to not write it off entirely. That in those people, PEMF initially may create more inflammation. And we’ve seen that. 

And it’s because, again, the nervous system is so, it’s like a porcupine with all the quills out, you know. And you’ve gotta soothe those quills down. So they may have to enter into some gentle areas. But a great application, instead of putting somebody on a full body mat, could be doing the probe at the vagal nerve, at the top of the neck. And just releasing some of that area. And I think of it as very short, and very slow, very low frequency. So, instead of kinda coming in with everything, coming in very softly, like a feather. And part of it too is that the nervous system, when it gets stuck, if you try to shift it, it’s comfortable with being uncomfortable. I feel safer to be in this high alarm state, because the nervous system still doesn’t know that it’s safe. And some people may still be in mold exposure, so they may not be able to turn off the alarm system ’til they get out. And that can be a factor in whether people tolerate the this or not. But if you just touch it with a feather, just trying to shift it with a feather, then it will start to unwind. And then in the more sensitive complex people, they may able to do a little bit more. The vagal nerve’s still a great place to start, just that vagal nerve supporting area. We’ve got to calm the nervous system and the immune system, the mast cells. So, step one and two in my process is stabilization, getting the mast cells calmed down, getting out of environmental toxins, and getting the nervous system calmed down before we ever enter into detoxing. So I think about that as, like, a detox prep. Like, I get the body ready to release some toxins. 

And then the people that are in that more easy complex, they’re tolerating a lot of supplements, they can take blends, those things don’t phase them. They might have some histamine intolerance, and they gotta watch that, but they’re not down to five foods. They can eat a lot of variety of foods. Those are the people that do really well starting with the pads that you use, and the pads that can be, you know, larger area around the vagal nerve, and still starting with the nervous system and unwinding. And then as they get stronger, they can move into that full body kind of mat, and they can do some of the stronger frequencies. And the real key is just to watch and make sure that, when I’ve talked with Dr. Pawluk about this, and we’ve had some really great conversations, we may get some initial mast cell activation that’s stimulating the healing process, so we wanna dial those mast cells down and then go into using modalities like PEMF. So that’s when I’ll recommend it in my practice, after we come from up here, porcupine quills sticking out, to we’ve settled them down a little bit, the body’s more relaxed, it’s more receptive, and then it can be a wonderful modality.

Riz Lakhani, L. Ac., M. Ac

Right on, right on. Yeah, that sort of what, we call it a low and slow of approach. So, you know, we would essentially start somebody off at a low level of stimulation to see how they respond, because of the wide varying amounts of sensitivities that you run into, we want to ease people into treatment. So, with using PEMF therapy, with patients going through this, I think absolutely, we want to gradually get them accustomed to the stimulation and let their bodies respond. What you’re saying reminds me a lot of folks that have things like chronic pain, and fibromyalgia, and where something even just like touching a piece of clothing as they put it on could really cause a lotta sensitive reaction, because the nerves are all flared up. But then providing stimulation and energy for those nerves to then relax and calm down, then we gradually see improvement, and then the person can function better and more. So, with the mast cell activation syndrome, when you’ve determined that somebody’s going through this, how do you start to address it? You know, you have talked about how you start with the gradual progression, but then as you get deeper into treatment, are there other things that you introduce?

Beth O’Hara, FN

Yeah, definitely. So first, people come in, we’re starting with looking at do they have mold toxins. That’s number one. And it’s amazing how many people have mold toxins. So about 99% of people I work with, I’m not saying everyone with mast cell activation syndrome has mold toxins, but I can tell you the ones that come to me have mold toxins, whether they know it or not. So, we’ll see it, and sometimes we’ll even see quite low levels initially on the testing, because the body is a poor detoxifier, and they’re struggling to get those fat soluble toxins out of the tissues into the urine. So you may even see very low levels initially. Some people write it off because of that, and that’s why I mentioned that. So we start taking a look at what’s happening in the body, what’s triggering them. And then I start people with very specific vagal and limbic system rebooting techniques, things that help the body shift from this state of kind of, we’re all in this kinda state of anxiety, unless you find somebody who’s really working on it, into this deep state of safety, and calm, and peace in the body. And in a way that most people have never experienced. It’s like if you’ve had the best day at the beach, the weather’s beautiful, it’s perfect, if you like the beach, and being covered in sand. And you just have that settledness in the body, and you hear the waves, and everything is just perfect. That’s the sensation we’re looking for. 

And I find that when people come in, it’s hard to relate to that, but they can create that, they can find their way to it. And some very specific vagal releasing things, and then the work that you do with acupuncture does a lot with the vagus nerve. But anything to shift into the parasympathetic. We have to remember, we can’t simultaneously be in the stress fight or flight sympathetic state and the parasympathetic healing state at the same time. So, sympathetic fight or flight is what 99% of us are in all the time, and that’s not the healing mode. And if we’re gonna heal, we’ve gotta shift into that healing state. Then we bring on board some specific agents to help support the mast cells. And these can be, in that super sensitive population, I’ll often start with homeopathics. And sometimes people will start with something really simple, like baking soda. Bicarbonates will actually modulate the mast cell response. Not from the pH sense, but the bicarbonates will, and we’re not trying to alkalinize the system necessarily, but it’s about bicarbonates modulate something called inflammasome production that will calm mast cell activation. So we can start with some of the simplest things and enter in that way. Perilla seed extract is really gentle. A lotta people do well with that. And then for the people that are in those other two categories, they might be able to do some things like DAO, diamine oxidase. 

It helps break down histamine in the gut. They can do things like Baikal and Chinese skullcap extracts. One of my favorites, ’cause it’s also mast cell calming, and it has a great modulation effect on the nervous system, calms the nervous system. We’ll work on sleep and digestion. If people have constipation, we’ve gotta get that sorted out for them, which all of this has to get customized, person to person, in this kind of group. And then we move into addressing what is underlying this. But just like you described, low and slow. So we’ll move into, with the mold toxins, onboarding these binders really slowly. Even these other agents, in that super sensitive population, just a tip for people, they can actually, what can work quite well is to take sprinkles of something. When I say sprinkles, I mean like granules of sand. A lotta people, I say sprinkles, and they’re like, oh, it’s like an eighth of a capsule. Like, no no. Granules of sand kind of size in about eight ounces of water, stir it, and just take a sip of the water. ‘Cause what you’re doing is having a dance with the limbic system to go, see that didn’t kill us, we’re okay. That’s safe. Now can we try two sips, you know, the next day. And sometimes we have to enter that slowly. But then if people are in that easy category, then I can go, we’re gonna start these six supplements. When I see you next, we’re gonna move into detox. And it just a depends on where they are. And we move them through, this order of operations is so critical in these complex conditions. And that’s where a lot of protocols, the vast majority of them are fantastic, but you have to be customized for this population. They’re not what’s gonna work. 

And again, I mention that because some people have tried 50 things, they’ve watched all these summits. The people I work with are usually quite well educated, self-educated in these areas. They listen to all the podcasts, and then they go, oh, well NAD should fix my energy, lemme go try NAD. Or I should be trying glutathione, or the SIBO protocol. I can’t tolerate anything, or I tried mold detox, it all backfired. And again, it’s because we’re not going along this correct order of operations for when people have gotten into this kind of cell danger response or survival paradox situation.

Riz Lakhani, L. Ac., M. Ac

So, I think it’s really interesting how you’ve emphasized the importance of the nervous system and achieving a little bit of balance in the nervous system, and allowing it to not be so sensitive. You know, of course, yeah, you cannot be in sympathetic and parasympathetic at the same time. And so, being able to help people gradually get into parasympathetic then of course has so many good benefits to it. And with the PEMF therapy, I’ve seen many instances of folks that have come into our clinic that have been either in so much pain that they could never, they couldn’t really communicate properly, or even, like, with things like anxiety, so anxious that they’re unable to speak. And in those situations, when I’ve offered to do PEMF therapy with them, you can actually see that shift happening. And now they’re much more relaxed and able to speak, able to communicate, have less discomfort. You know, you talked about doing vagus nerve simulation on the neck or, you know, the ears are a common place that we go to for that. And, you know, it’s kind of like patients that have the chronic pain syndromes, where, you know, the source of the pain may no longer really be there, but the patient’s still dealing with it. And so then we have to think about treating the brain and, you know, this sort of constant communication telling the brain that yes there’s danger when there really isn’t. 

And so, even though the source of the pain or the distress is no longer there, the patient is still feeling like it is. So that’s one of the reasons I really, really love being able to do PEMF therapy with people, because it achieves, relatively simply, a lotta these goals that we’re wanting to have. A shift in the nervous system tone, a reduction of inflammation, a increase in blood circulation, which allows nutrients to go where they need to go. And especially if there’s a place in the body where there’s tissue damage or there’s sensitivity. And one other interesting thing that I think of with this is the whole notion of detox. And we know that PEMF therapy can be helpful with that, because it actually helps to open up channels in the cell membrane. So, you kinda have this restoration of being able to push toxins out of the cells and simultaneously pull nutrition in better. So you’re, you know, improving that permeability that we need to regulate. And so, it’s a lovely way to be able to affect at the cellular level, without doing anything too invasive. And of course, many times when people do PEMF therapy, they are relaxing, or they’re doing it in a place that, you know, where it might be quiet, and they get some of that meditation time or that ability to just be away from stimulation other than the PEMF. 

And so, you know, you said it best. You know, we are bombarded by stimulation everywhere we go. You know, our expectations for ourself are so high. You know, we’re not necessarily following a lot of the guidelines we know that help encourage good health, like, you know, being out in the soil, and tending to our gardens. Even with community tending to each other, we’re often kinda feeling like we’re in this alone. And so, how could you not help but get agitated and things build. And so, something’s gotta give. And we’re gonna see, when this happens, people are gonna have unpleasant symptoms. Lastly, you know, in our modern world, you know, we have so many toxins that are here now, chemical toxins, you know. I mean with the pandemic that we’ve all endured, there’s the stress of it, but then there’s so many more chemicals that we’re spraying around to try and disinfect things and such. Do you think that just modern day life and using more technology, you kinda touched on it with EMF, but even with, you know, chemicals, and paints, and such, are we exposing ourselves to a lotta things that we shouldn’t be?

Beth O’Hara, FN

We’re kind of in trouble, in a big way. Just human beings in general. The amount of toxins, the amount of stress, the amount of toxins that are being released that combine with other toxins that have never even been studied. We don’t even know what molecules are being produced. We are a bit in trouble. And what’s happening with those of us that have these conditions like mast cell activation syndrome, where we’re sensitive to things, where we’re having all this inflammation, where we’re wondering why me, why am I the one that’s so sick and everybody’s not, it’s not so such that, well, why am I sick and no one else isn’t, it’s a matter of how quickly are we responding. And so, these are making us all sick, just some people have the type of systems that it’s not gonna catch up for them for 20 years, and then they’re gonna have cardiovascular disease, cancers, those types of things. And then those of us who have mast cell activation syndrome, we’re the canaries in the coal mine. We’re the ones that are waving the flag. 

And if people aren’t familiar with that metaphor, the miners used to send, back before we had air testing and these kinds of things, you know, 1800s, the mines would produce things like carbon monoxide that you couldn’t smell, you couldn’t detect. But if a miner was down there for a few hours, they would die. And so they would send canaries down, because their systems were so sensitive that they would pass out very quickly. And sometimes they would pass. And if they brought it up and the canary had passed out, then they knew that that mine wasn’t safe. That’s what’s happening. And mast cell activation syndrome’s been around for a very long time, but it’s been exponentially increasing the frequency. And the studies are showing that this is occurring between nine and 17% of the general population. It’s one of the most under-recognized conditions out there at all. And so you’re talking about at least one in 10 people in the general population. And then people with chronic inflammatory issues, the lowest estimate is about 50%. It’s probably extremely much much much higher.

Riz Lakhani, L. Ac., M. Ac

It’s gotta be more than that.

Beth O’Hara, FN

And so, that’s what’s going on, is that we’re waving the flag, going, hey, this isn’t working. So recovering from it means we’ve gotta change our lifestyle. Means we have to change both our toxin exposures, we have to change how we eat. I don’t eat fast food. I’ll probably never eat fast food again. And I don’t need to, I don’t want to anymore. You know, I don’t need pizza. I wanna nourish my body. But it’s this change in thinking. I changed my cleaning products, I have good air filtration, good air purifiers. I changed all my topical products so that they’re all non-toxic. I have zero fragrances in my house. There are no fragrance candles, there are no fragrance plugins. And that’s what’s healthier. And I hope that we can shift this dialogue from why me to I’m gonna be a good model for what’s healing and healthy in the world. And I think that’s what mast cell activation syndrome is teaching us, is that we’ve gotta change these things. And PEMF can be a great modality. I wanted to share a quick story, my experience with it is I had severe cervical instability in my upper neck. And it’s better now, I’ve been getting treatments with things like PRP, and that’s helping to stabilize. But I remember one time I was at a conference, and my neck was just out and really painful. The chiropractor who was there, really good upper cervical chiropractor, she wasn’t able to adjust, it just wouldn’t respond. So we used the PEMF probe in that area, and it took my pain down from about a level eight down to about a five within about 15 minutes.

Riz Lakhani, L. Ac., M. Ac

Wonderful.

Beth O’Hara, FN

And then she was able to adjust me afterwards. And I just went right in. So that’s an example of how, and at that point in time, I was still fairly sensitive. So that’s an example of how, even for really sensitive people, that just, like, short, targeted kind of treatment can be really effective. And then people can build into some of these stronger ways of applying it.

Riz Lakhani, L. Ac., M. Ac

Yeah, absolutely. We can deliver it very gently, and it’s very synergistic, it’s very supportive to the body. It encourages the tissues to perform more robustly and with more health. And so, it sounds like you’ve experienced a little bit of that already. And do you recommend PEMF therapy to your patients as well?

Beth O’Hara, FN

I do. In the right order of operation, so-

Riz Lakhani, L. Ac., M. Ac

Right, yeah, when the time is right.

Beth O’Hara, FN

And depending on if they have access to somebody like you, who really understands how and when to apply it, and what types of frequencies, then yeah, it’s a great modality. It can be hard to find people like you, so your patients are really lucky.

Riz Lakhani, L. Ac., M. Ac

Well, fortunately the awareness is increasing. And, you know, a lotta that is thanks to Dr. Pawluk for a lotta his work and the science of how all this stuff is beneficial. And yeah, I think people now more than ever are interested in solutions that are drug free and that help them to be more resilient and not just, you know, cover things up. And so, PEMF therapy definitely presents us a great value proposition with that. When I first got started with it, and learned more about it, and started to use it myself, after I started to see improvements in my own health, I just started using it on pretty much a daily basis. You know, not only does it help with issues that I’m not aware of, or that may not be on my radar, but, you know, it’s like a opportunity for me to rest, and de-stress, get my nervous system relaxed, and possibly prevent other problems from occurring. And, you know, with all these chemicals and the mold toxicity you’ve talked about, I’ve certainly dealt with mold and felt the effects of that, so having something that helps us with these more insidious problems is needed now more than ever. So, that covers a lotta great territory for us. Do you have any other things that you’d like to add to the conversation about this before we wrap up?

Beth O’Hara, FN

I’d just love to share some free resources for people, that if they think they may have mast cell activation syndrome, or they’re not sure, or they’re thinking about their family member, or a good friend, or a child. I took the research data on the symptoms that were associated clearly with mast cell activation syndrome. There are lots of others that are associated but haven’t been shown in the research literature yet, so I just took that and I made a symptom survey that people can do on their own, on the website. It’s completely free, they can just go to MastCell360.com. And if they go under MCAS, they’ll see a symptom survey. And they can start to see, does this seem like it might be a part of what’s driving these complex chronic issues that needs to be addressed, as part of the mystery that hasn’t been uncovered. And if it is, we’ve got tons of free resources on our blog. I have courses that help step people through how to do the nervous system part, onboard some of the mast cell supporting supplements, and start on a mold detox in a way that’s really gentle for people who are struggling. And then we have a great Facebook community and free Facebook Lives most Mondays, so people are welcome to join us there.

Riz Lakhani, L. Ac., M. Ac

So, that’s MastCell360.com.

Beth O’Hara, FN

M-A-S-T as in Tom, C-E-L-L 360, right.

Riz Lakhani, L. Ac., M. Ac

Yep, MastCell360.com. And thank you so much for all the work that you do. I mean, this is clearly, you’re in a area that we need more people bringing awareness to this. And so, thank you for your expertise and for those resources that you offer to people. And we hope you continue the great work with educating and empowering. And thank you so, so much for your time. I know you’re really busy with all the work that you do, but it’s really appreciated to help get this message out.

Beth O’Hara, FN

Thank you so much, Riz. I just wanna tell you, I really appreciate you helping us get this out there, and also very grateful for the work that you do, and how you support people’s healing as well.

Riz Lakhani, L. Ac., M. Ac

Yeah, great way to be able to combine different forces and help people get better. Thank you so, so much. I hope you have a wonderful rest of the day, and we’ll be talking to you soon.

Beth O’Hara, FN

Thanks.

Riz Lakhani, L. Ac., M. Ac

Take care.