Mold: The Silent Threat To Your Fertility

Ann Shippy, MD

Welcome to all the Mycotoxins and Chronic Illness Summit. I am your host Dr. Ann Shippy. And today we are going to get to talk to Dr. Aumatma about fertility and. She is double board certified in Naturopathy Endocrinology. She is a bestselling author, and she really is on a mission to help bring healthy babies into the world. Thank you so much for joining us.

Aumatma Simmons, ND, FABNE, MS

Thanks for having me, Dr. Shippy. It is so nice to be here. And just the awesomeness of the summit that you are doing and all of them using work that you are hoping to share with the world. It is awesome. Thank you for being.

Ann Shippy, MD

Here with wonderful people  you. I started. And we share such a passion about fertility and having healthy babies. So I love that about our friendship.

Aumatma Simmons, ND, FABNE, MS

Yes. Yes, absolutely.

Ann Shippy, MD

So let us dig in on how mold affects fertility.

Aumatma Simmons, ND, FABNE, MS

Yes. So mold is going to have quite a few different impacts on fertility, hormonal imbalance at least from what I have seen Is. The hidden mold or the exposures to mold that people have unknowingly. Most of the time is on a micro level affecting their hormones, specifically estrogen. And I do not know if you see this also, but it seems to yes, it seems to have these high estrogen curves, ups and downs. But the most severe case I had and it took us so long to figure this out because they had moved out of the place after getting exposed, this woman was having cysts that would just come up every single month. And when she obviously whenever she had the cyst, her estrogen levels would be off the charts. Then we would drain the estrogen out of her system. And it was  we kept doing these loops until at some point I was , We have to look for a mole.  we just have to test it. And she is , No, I have never been exposed to mold. And we did the test and it came back positive. And then she was , , what could this have been from mold that I was exposed to a year and a half ago before moving? And I was , Yes. Yes, it could. And it turns out that when they were moving, they noticed that part of their  bedroom closet was covered in mold and they thought nothing of it because they are , Well, we are moving. Who cares? But they had been exposed to that for years. So yes. So the impact on.

Ann Shippy, MD

Her body a year later.

Aumatma Simmons, ND, FABNE, MS

Absolutely. Absolutely. And she is hyper sensitive and her epigenetics lended to her having this  reflection of the mold in her hormones. So it just all when all the pieces tied together finally , oh my gosh, we have been I was working on her Hormones for two and a half years. Sad to say, and , kept going on these rollercoaster rides and I was , Something is wrong. , it should not keep reappearing. This is not how things go down with us, ? And it was finally  making those connections and being , Oh my God, it all makes sense. So that is the biggest impact and the most direct to fertility. I think some of the other impacts,  inflammation and oxidative stress, those are happening under the radar and it could  hidden inflammation and or inflammation that you  address through food and you are , okay, let us improve your diet, your lifestyle, your exposures to different types of things that might be inflaming your body. And yet you have mold that in the background, inflaming your body without you even knowing. So those are the places where when I am , okay, we have done all of our things and you still have this level of inflammation or you still have estrogen issues, then usually I am , we have to consider mold because if we are not sure that you do not have it, then you probably do. That’s become  my motto. It is so prevalent and I feel  it is  I do not know, you probably see this more than I do. So I guess it is taking over It is literally.

Ann Shippy, MD

Really does epidemic. Unfortunately I think these building changes that were made for energy conservation in the seventies where just the whole building science changed and then the wallboard coming in with the mold spores already in it, the drywall. Yes, Yes.  we just we set ourselves up for failure and then just the level of artistry, craftsmanship with buildings, , it is just the skills to create all the right barriers just are not the same. Yes. So, yes, I am almost getting to a point where I am , , maybe. Maybe checking for mold just needs to be part of that, , physical. Because if you can get it before there’s a disease or before there’s infertility or or its effects or all the things, right? So that is a much better scenario. So now that you have got these three key areas that really impact fertility for probably both men and women, so that women balance inflammation and oxidative stress, I love that if you tie the relationship together with how that then  changes the body’s ability to get pregnant.

Aumatma Simmons, ND, FABNE, MS

Yes, totally. So on the hormonal side, when we have too much estrogen, ah, the, the brain is getting a signal that it no longer needs to produce follicles. So we essentially get these  immature follicles or eggs that are going to be released usually early. So women with high levels of estrogen early in their cycle will essentially have early ovulation, which means the quality of that egg, if it is not fully developed, is low. So right off the bat, it is harder to get that egg fertilized and then in the second half, in the luteal phase, this is where it really  estrogen is not the star of the show. In the luteal phase, unfortunately, it is supposed to be progesterone. So we do this estrogen and progesterone flip where estrogen is higher than progesterone. In the luteal phase, which makes it really hard to get pregnant. And then the other two inflammation and oxidative stress are going to have an impact on the quality of the mitochondria. So our ovaries have 200 times the mitochondria of any other cell in the body. We these mitochondria, these energy centers are essentially the  producers of quality egg and sperm.

So if we are affecting the mitochondria, if the mitochondria are not functioning as well or all of the anti-oxidants that we have in our body are being shunted to take care of the oxidation of the stressors that oxidative stress that is happening in our body or it is going to quench the fires of inflammation, then we really do not have the  the resources to have good mitochondrial health, which then makes for crappy egg and sperm. So all of these things just essentially are impacting the quality of egg and sperm, which is then going to go to either making it really challenging to get pregnant because the eggs are not being able to be fertilized the way they should. And then the sperm, we do not talk about the male side of this as often, but the male side is very significant. And men are also affected by mold. It is not just the females. And the impact on the sperm is essentially that it could lower motility, but more commonly morphology. So that is essentially the health of the sperm. And I often just yes, totally, totally. So morphology is essentially the quality of the head in the tail of the sperm. We only expect 10 to 12% of all of the sperm in the body to be quote unquote normal morphology. So 90% of them. Can essentially be total garbage. And we are okay with that because.

Men make lots and lots of sperm. So it is okay. But even out of that 10%, if we have, let us say instead of 10%, only 2% are normal, then we have a lower number that  have quality head and tail. And the head of the sperm is essentially responsible for breaking through the protective shell around the egg that will allow one sperm to get in and fertilize the egg. So if the head of the sperm and honestly, the tail is responsible for getting the sperm to go where it needs to go, if the head is not able to break through that protective layer because it does not have the right nutrients, it does not have the right quality, it does not have a baby, Some of them have two heads or four heads, then they are not really able to break through that. That natural protective mechanism that we have for survival of the fittest. So essentially no sperm. None of those farmers are fit enough to fertilize the egg. So it is a good natural mechanism because we do not want to have abnormal, abnormal embryos that then lead to genetic abnormalities in the babies. And of course, some of sometimes it happens. But when the sperm are really good and when their eggs are is really good, we are going to get the best embryo quality, which then leads to a good, healthy baby. So when we are compromising that or when we are saying, oh, it is okay, it is okay that 2% are normal, A the chances of them fertilizing the egg go down. But then the bypass that we use in our society, which is IVF,  bypasses the need for good, healthy sperm. But my belief is that the quality of the sperm is not so much just to fertilize. It is  telling us about general health. It is telling us about, Hey, if your body is only able to make 2% normal sperm, then something’s going on. And I often use this example of  your sperm factory was sent to China. We need to bring it back to the US. It is  . We’re going to make tons and tons of sperm, but we do not need them to, , function great, right? , we can pump out all these sperm, but the quality of them is very low and then you bring it back to the US and you are , Oh, the number could go down. , we are going to produce less sperm. But if the percentage or the quality of the sperm that is being produced is higher than we have a really good environment where the sperm are healthy.

Ann Shippy, MD

And the try for that to have really having the high quality healthy sperm, that is an indication of the health of the father. It is all those epigenetic changes. So the things that get passed on from the father are just amazing. , what is there as there been stress, Has there been is there diabetes? So I hear analogy with how important it is to really get the sperm healthy so that then the genes that are regulated in the baby are in the right combination and the right things for a healthy baby.

Aumatma Simmons, ND, FABNE, MS

Yes, yes, yes, yes. And, and I will say , sorry, just to add to this conversation, those three changes that we have talked about, the hormonal imbalance, inflammation and oxidative stress, all of them we talked about impacting egg and sperm health and sometimes pregnancy happens and often what we have noticed or what we have seen is that the exposure to mold makes for more ly that a pregnancy loss is going to ensue. So after all that,  after overcoming all of these odds, this egg and sperm managed to meet and create an embryo and then it does not stick. And that is just  heartbreaking. That’s the worst of it, ? And I just I yes, I feel  there is not enough awareness about it. And we are,  you said,  we just ought to be testing everyone because it is so rampant and screening.

Ann Shippy, MD

Really.

Aumatma Simmons, ND, FABNE, MS

Yes. Yes.

Ann Shippy, MD

Are the preconception screening. Yes. Yes. Do you have STDs, Do you have low grade infections, Do you have an iron level? All that is based testing that is done with pregnancy which does include. Yes. So that is thing.

Aumatma Simmons, ND, FABNE, MS

Yes.

Ann Shippy, MD

So are there other , you mentioned the patient that had the recurrences with the estrogen dominance and fluctuations. Are there other signs and symptoms that you look for that you are that might make you think about mold.

Aumatma Simmons, ND, FABNE, MS

I think inflammatory markers.

Ann Shippy, MD

What are your favorites?

Aumatma Simmons, ND, FABNE, MS

So we are only start on a panel. We have the basics and the most basic is CRP, C or C, reactive protein. What is it? Yes, I see. Okay. I  y my spacing on this. And we are using the high sensitivity. So hs-crp and if that marker is elevated, our first go to is the lower hanging fruit. It is are you eating inflammatory foods? Let us get the seed oils out of your diet, ,  basic things. But if within six weeks we do not see that number change significantly, then instantly I am , okay, what other things are causing inflammation? Because the ly chance that there is a mold or a toxin that is causing that inflammation is really high. So we should really see our approach is , okay, we do not want to make everyone tests for mold. It would be nice, but given  the number of tests that they need for hormones and all of these other things, we are , okay, let us focus.

But if we do this preliminary screen and you are still showing inflammation signs, we need to test something else. So that is one. And my patient with the cysts and all of that, she was  my first this was a few years ago. So she was my learning experience of holy moly,  I missed the signs of mold and she did not have significant signs. That was the issue. Right.  a lot of her symptoms were estrogen dominance. So she had breast tenderness and she had cramps and she had mood swings and oh, I cry all the time for  a week before my period. And it was just  all the signs were there. But it masks itself as estrogen dominance rather than mold. Right. So that is I think that was the  aha moment for me is , wait, you already did all the things.  I, I asked her to do all the stuff, she was the most compliant patient. So she was I knew she was doing it to the T the fact that she would get better and swing back, that has become a sign so the improved and.

Ann Shippy, MD

Then things then that she did not respond to with the estrogen dominance the lifestyle.

Aumatma Simmons, ND, FABNE, MS

Oh yes the lifestyle changes and then we usually do  touch panels on everyone. So that test really helps me know  where is, where are the blocks, what is not excreting out of your system? I think she was her CMT enzyme was low functioning, so we were giving her things to  help move those pathways along. And it.

Ann Shippy, MD

Worked. Magnesium, A B, vitamins.

Aumatma Simmons, ND, FABNE, MS

Yes. Magnesium B, vitamins. Sam E is one of our favorites. Phosphatidylcholine is another one. It so we, we were doing those things and when she did them, it worked  it was almost , Wow, we got results. We do a day three Her hormones are normal and then we start easing off the supplements and boom, everything comes back and it comes back with a vengeance. So I saw the most swings,  up and down, up and down, up and down with her more than I had seen with anyone. And it was essentially, yes,  I think of mold as  the trickster, right? It is  it is, it is, it is going to mask itself as other things and have you  spinning in loops of , oh, this is going to work, this is going to work. It is totally working. And then boom, all of a sudden, out of nowhere you are , Wait, what just happened? , it is  the rug is pulled out from under your feet. And yes. It was just  such a roller coaster ride that. I now know.  any time we are doing these roller coasters with people or we are not getting the results that we want to see within an hour, our approach is very specific. So I am , I expect to see results in  6 to 8 weeks. So that is not happening. We’re doing something wrong. We’re missing something. And often with her we had for almost a year, we were , Let us test mold, let us test move, let us test mold and her and her husband just did not believe us. They’re , No, we do not have mold.  we have never been exposed to mold. And they just  it. Just held firm.

Ann Shippy, MD

It is interesting how you can get the blinders on.

Aumatma Simmons, ND, FABNE, MS

Yes. Yes. So I think that.

Ann Shippy, MD

Five years ago that you just painted over.

Aumatma Simmons, ND, FABNE, MS

Yes. So I think that in the case of mold, it is unfortunate because as much as we would love to just test everyone and even the people that we suspect that were , hey, things should be better by now. And the fact that they are not tells me that something is off. Your symptoms are not improving or even your hormones improve, but your symptoms stay the same. That’s a good indicator of , hey, this is maybe not hormonal at this point, maybe something else. So yes.

Ann Shippy, MD

Let us make way into. All right, infertility. Now we know there’s a mold exposure.

Aumatma Simmons, ND, FABNE, MS

Yes.

Ann Shippy, MD

Let us talk about what your approach is for helping people to improve and not that you feel  it is safe for them to get pregnant. Mhm.

Aumatma Simmons, ND, FABNE, MS

Yes. So this is a tricky one because I think that it can vary in terms of  what are we going to do about it. Right. And for us first you have to change the environment and sometimes there was  another patient several years ago that I was , all of your symptoms, I know you have mold and, and then she was , Oh yes, there is this  black spot in our bedroom. And I was , Oh my God, are you serious? And she is , Yes, it is been there for a few years. And they already had a child. So she was in denial that the mold is affecting her fertility in some way. I am , Well, your body overcame it the first time. That does not mean it wants to do that again. And they were , okay, well, we will just not sleep in the bedroom and we know  mold travels through the air vents. So I am , No, that is not helping. , you. Sleeping in a different room is not keeping you from being exposed. So that was another case. But I think the first and most obvious is we have to change the environment. If you are going to keep getting re-exposed, we are not doing much to  impact your body. So either a move or more  remediation done in a safe way, right.

Ann Shippy, MD

And doing it just to treat, .

Aumatma Simmons, ND, FABNE, MS

Yes.

Ann Shippy, MD

We’re coming on that because especially by the time people get to you or to me, they are really wanting to get pregnant quickly. So I have to put things on hold and say, Oops, we got to think, we got to do something major here. It really is. It is so hard.

Aumatma Simmons, ND, FABNE, MS

Yes, yes, I agree. I agree. Getting it. It is a big investment, right?  I interestingly, I went through this mold experience in an old home that I had six years ago. We had a water leak. I did not know at the time how to do this, do the drying properly. So we were supposed to get  dryers in there and , just get it out of the ceiling, essentially. We never did it. Then there was mold. It took us,  I would say, by the time we were done with that whole experience, it was  25,000 deep because it had taken over all of the kitchen. And so we had to renovate the kitchen, took over the ceiling below it. So  the flooring, which was the ceiling for the under level, and we had to  remediate that. So it just  it is one of those things that if you did not do it right from the beginning, it just catapults into a whole ordeal. So within a few months it was just  downward spiraling and so I know from that experience,  it is overwhelming. Sometimes it is scary. And then there are a lot of companies that are , Oh yes, we do this correctly, and then they  we I did  before testing, after testing,  I want to make sure this is out and there I think their first test after doing it there was  more mold after they remediated and I was , No, you guys better come back. And fix it.  there’s no way I am accountable. Yes, you.

So it is a whole ordeal and you  have to watch over them and be , are you  doing what we paid you to do? And then getting independent testing because their testing is always going to show that it is fine. So it is quite the undertaking. So I think that is the first piece you have to change the physical environment. You can’t paint over it. You can’t bleach it. Right.  a lot of people are under this belief, , I am just going to throw bleach on it and it is going to take care of it. There is no there is no bleaching mold out. I am sorry, that is not a thing. So that and then our approach with it is there are some good binders that help to bind the mold in the body and  start removing it. And it is a process. So it is not something that we say, Hey, do this for a week and then you are fine go back to doing. What you are doing. It is more  a slow, steady process for a few months and then because these are binders which are essentially also going to pull out some of your nutrients, you really have to be an active replenishment mode after to make sure that we haven’t depleted your body in a way that is then going to affect the health of your baby.

So we are always keeping in mind , hey, that is fine. It is essentially  we are detoxing you, quote unquote. But that detox has to come with a follow through of , here’s a new renewed purification and you are not getting pregnant quickly after that process. So a lot of people are , Great, I am done. Can I go get pregnant? And I am , No, we are going to give this  2 to 3 months at least so that we replenish your body. We help to impact the quality of the eggs. We make sure the eggs are as good as they can be. The sperm is as good as it can be, and then you go and get pregnant. So it slows the process down a bit and people do not usually love us for it, but it is  the safest way to have a child when it is  you are in your optimal state rather than just  bypassing it and hoping for the best.

Ann Shippy, MD

So clean environment put you up for your baby anyway.

Aumatma Simmons, ND, FABNE, MS

Right? Yes. Yes. So you really want to bring a child into that environment.

Ann Shippy, MD

Because it is a little  you do not have good detox systems and.

Aumatma Simmons, ND, FABNE, MS

They do not.

Ann Shippy, MD

Immune systems yet so.

Aumatma Simmons, ND, FABNE, MS

And, and .

Ann Shippy, MD

Treat is so high that it has great mycotoxins and so.

Aumatma Simmons, ND, FABNE, MS

And, and  one of the other symptoms is allergies and asthma, which so many children have so then you connect the dots and you say, well is it all due to mold? Is that what is happening here? So absolutely.  we do not want to bring a child into that environment because we are just setting them up for, hey, now you need more medications and you are going to be on prednisone or whatever steroids.

Ann Shippy, MD

For the rest for autoimmune diseases and ADHD and autism and all those things too, because there’s associations with  mycotoxins and was childhood severe chronic diseases.

Aumatma Simmons, ND, FABNE, MS

Yes.

Ann Shippy, MD

Yes, exactly. , and so that is really the goal, right? Have a clean environment to bring the baby in and have the best quality sperm and egg make gets it find each other. Yes. And then to have the nutrients really replete it and then long so that the baby has all the supplies it needs to build a healthy body and brain. So tell me a little bit more about your thoughts about really getting the body to that in a more optimal place in the egg, in the sperm to that place. Are there any more things that you think about and with that is the goal?

Aumatma Simmons, ND, FABNE, MS

Yes, in terms of optimal for we are calling it optimal fertile state and that we define that as high quality circadian rhythm, which is   you sleep really well and you wake up really well and the sleep is having you  rejuvenate. So a lot of times people sleep and they are , Oh, I wake up not rested or I do not have energy or whatever, all of those things. So really that needs to be in alignment. And when they wake up in the morning, they are   the cortisol weakening response is working and it is helping them feel awake and they are awake through the rest of the day. So they are not having crashes and stuff  that. So that is the circadian rhythm optimization. And then the infinity and rhythm optimization is specifically for women and the ingredient rhythm is essentially the follicular and luteal phase. Or if we break that down, the menstrual follicular ovulatory and then luteal. So the four phases that your body is going through every single month needs to be in an optimal state. And what that looks  is you have a really good menstrual cycle without pain, which a lot of people are. , Isn’t it normal that I have cramps? Not normal, no.

So you have  a good healthy flow, you have good amount of blood. You it is bright red,  the color is good. It is not cloudy. Right.  all of those things that we can  define as a good menstrual cycle, healthy menstrual cycle. And then the follicular phase really looks  enough time to develop the egg. So sometimes in this place, either the eggs are developing too quickly or they are developing too slowly. And I haven’t seen too many fertility specialist talking about this. But I feel  if you only take five days to develop something that should take about ten, then your body is is compressing that time and   moving the Chinese to the factory to China again is , Oh, I am just going to  feed through this and knock it out and probably if you knocked it out in half the time, you might question the quality of what is coming out. So that and then the other piece is we often are tracking basal body temperatures. So what we will see is a really  steep decline in the follicular phase or a lot of up and down in the follicular phase. And either one is essentially showing us that the hormones are out of whack in the follicular phase to make high quality eggs.

So that is the follicular ovulation. We want to see that the egg is  pushed out of the ovary when it should be. So there on BBT, you see  a dip in temperature and then a surge. And that dip is the L.A. saying, hey, time to push out the egg and then the surge is the egg  has been pushed out. So that needs to happen  in a concise way. And simultaneously, there should be an increase in cervical fluid. And the cervical fluid has  5 to 7 days where it is shifting. So we are looking for that to pattern to  shift into optimal. And then the last phase, the luteal phase, we are really expecting that temperature to stay high, which tells us that the body is producing enough progesterone and it is sustaining the production of that progesterone for the entire phase of your luteal cycle. And that ideally is 12 to 14 days. And again,  we do not want to sure, we do not want it too long, so we want it  the right amount of time to to  show that our body is in the optimal in freedom rhythm.

Ann Shippy, MD

Beautiful. So do you have a favorite tracker app that you  or. Yes, I do think probably people listening are going to be , okay, let us track that.

Aumatma Simmons, ND, FABNE, MS

How do I know this? Yes, our favorite tracker is Tempo Drop and I am happy to share the code. If there’s somewhere for you to share it, people can get a discount to the tempo drop.

Ann Shippy, MD

That’s great. Yes.

Aumatma Simmons, ND, FABNE, MS

Yes.

Ann Shippy, MD

Okay. And then so that is a trackers. They’re also  an operation kit that you  to use.

Aumatma Simmons, ND, FABNE, MS

So we so do not need it. Yes, you do not need it if you are so our, our approach is  we want to train our ladies on what is happening in each phase and they start   see their temps. So most of the time by month three, four of tracking and working with us, they have gotten enough reflection on their temp charts that they come in and they are , I do not know, dog, My temperatures. Didn’t look so good this month. What do you think is going on? So they are  really super. Proactive about reading their times and knowing, hey, something is off or vice versa. , Hey, this looks really good. Should I be excited? Oh, so. They’re almost  getting to the point where they can interpret for themselves, which is always my goal is , we empower you.  exactly when you are ovulating,  what signs to look for. And when you have those signs and and you see that your temps are  doing what they should be through each phase, you can be super excited that your cycle is good. Right?

Ann Shippy, MD

And that is yes, that is a good thing to be tracking along the way of You’re detoxing to see the changes.

Aumatma Simmons, ND, FABNE, MS

Yes Yes. And you will see  we will see that when people are detoxing, whether it is mold or other toxins, they will often have temperatures go  nuts. So instead of showing that optimal temperature pattern, it is  all over the place and then it starts to stabilize and we can see it enough to be , oh,  this is the indicator that we are moving in the right direction and to know that we have pretty much gotten to where we want to be.

Ann Shippy, MD

Beautiful, beautiful. So as far as  just dealing with the emotional side of this, because by the time people get to the state and realizing that there’s some issues with their fertility, it is already heartbreaking. , they have had miscarriages along the way. It is, , another another, , major setback. And then to know, okay, now I have got to deal with the whole rebuilding of my body in the mold. What do you do to help with those kinds of. I just it is hard emotional situations.

Aumatma Simmons, ND, FABNE, MS

Yes. I feel  fertility just comes with hard emotions. There’s just so many emotions, regardless of if it is a mold issue or something else is going on, or you. I had this woman about  two maybe a year and a half ago. Who’s. For nine years on her fertility journey. And it is  I am having this initial consultation with her and I am looking at her hormones , there’s no way,  your body would not let you get pregnant because you have zero estrogen. Her level was nine on cycle day three, when it should be ideally  30 to 50. So I asked her, I was , is this new or has your estrogen always been this slow? And she is , No, it is been  this the whole time. And I am , Oh my God. So and then I was , And. You have regular menstrual cycles. And she is , Yes, it is regular, but it is  for 4 hours I have a bleed and then I am done for 4 hours. Now it is , Oh yes, that is  zero estrogen here. So I really  when people and and  all of her tests came back, it was  one after another. And she was at some point I remember her just breaking down and being , for nine years, every single doctor I have been to has said I am normal and nothing is wrong. And every single test that we did was , I am sorry, but here’s some more we have to deal with. And , I just a matter of fact way of saying. It, but it is  to me it is good, right? , it is good to know because now we can deal with it, but for her, she was , What the hell?  nine years of people telling me everything is fine and it is unexplained infertility. And she is , and I could have been doing something the whole time. So.

Ann Shippy, MD

So happy ending.

Aumatma Simmons, ND, FABNE, MS

Well, so what if I wish there was a happy ending? She, in the process of going through all of this and really came to a realization that her partner was non supportive, lived through all of it, and he was , she was , I do not think I should have a child with this man. And I was , Well, I support whatever decision you make because it is not  your fertility is not. At the end of the road, you are good. So if you need to,  wait for a sperm donor or a partner that going to support you better, I am okay with that.  I am more for people having babies when it is with the right person. And so I was , I support you ruling. I support this decision because. He literally was , I am doing everything. And then we look at his labs and we are , Did you  change your diet? And he is , Well, ,  I changed most of which was his way of saying he did not do anything. And they are , Are you taking your supplements? , most of the time. But not when I am traveling, which is  most of the time. So we  got to a point of  we he is not he is not  showing up to do the work. So we internally our team is. , well, I do not know what is up with this guy. And then she eventually came to her own realization around it and she is just , I am done. I am good with this.  for I can’t even believe that we have been on this journey for nine years. But he is  been checked out a long time ago. So unfortunately.

Ann Shippy, MD

That’s a positive story in that once you got the child together, all of those issues get amplified even more.

Aumatma Simmons, ND, FABNE, MS

Yes, yes, exactly.  it is better realized sooner rather than later. Even if it is nine years in, it is  it do not. Yes. For me, I am  such a I love her so much and I am , I do not want to see you do something you do not want to do. And had it been other fertility people, they would be , You’re 39, you need to have this baby today. And we are   forcing her into what,  a life of feeling unsupported and , not a good environment. For a child to grow up in.

Ann Shippy, MD

Right? No, I think there’s so much that is  such a good segue. Why is there so much pressure to, , to do it now in the fertility world? And you and I both see patients having healthy babies well into their forties? Yes, yes, definitely.

Aumatma Simmons, ND, FABNE, MS

Yes Yes. Yes, yes. I am definitely seeing that it and it is not I think a lot of times I am very vocal about it is not your age, but it is also a balance of it is your hormones. So if   a lot of times you will hear me speak or something and  come up to me and say, Oh, you helped this other woman at 47, you help me, too and I am , I do not know, , we should look at your hormones because if your body is going into menopause, I am not the right person to , turn this around. I am very much a believer that our body is doing. What it is needing to do at whatever stage it is designed to do it and we are not going to fight with nature. , we are just I am not. There are other doctors that will give you hormones and all of the things.

But I am not the right person. So and so I think yes, just the balance of , yes, I want to see everyone who wants to have a baby, have a baby at whatever stage they want to have it. And the reality is some of our hormones shift sooner than others and we have to be set and or grounded in the reality of  what is happening in my body. And it is not a generalization. So at that point it is , well, it is not really your age. There’s 47 year olds that we do work with. Because. Their. Hormones look amazing and. Their ovaries are  acting. They are 35 Then we are , Yes, go for it. I do not have a problem with your age.

But of us, they are , Well, there’s no reserve left in the ovaries and there’s no amount of work that we are going to do to magically give you eggs.  that is just beyond nature. So yes. And I am so sorry I  spaced on your main body question. So we do a lot of support around the emotional stuff. I am a believer that a our stress or our body feeling is in fight or flight mode and it can be fight or flight because of work stuff. It can be fight or flight because we are to mold can be fight or flight because we have too much on our plate or we do not know how to say no.  there’s so many reasons for our body to   wig out and be in that fight or flight mode. And what we really want to transition to is safety and surrender mode, which is more conducive to having a child. So we  have these mind body bio hacks that are little  1 to 2 minute resets for the nervous system to get you back into that  safety and surrender. So yes, we do. We do that a lot and we encourage people to  be proactive of , oh, whenever you feel anxiety or whenever you feel stressed,  go to the bathroom and do this thing for 30 seconds, that is going to help bring you back to center because those emotions are always going to come up. It is not  they go away.

It is just that we are becoming more aware of how those things are impacting us and then putting boundaries around,  a lot of women will say, Oh, are you , I am so stressed because I went to  three baby showers this weekend and I am , Why would you do that? Why do you need to say yes to that? , I get that it is a dear friend of yours, but if  that this is going to put your emotional health at a disservice, do not go decline. Right. And in a lot of women are , but I can’t say no that they are going to know that I am struggling with fertility. And I am , and that is okay if you want to tell them. And if you do not, then you do not need to give a reason for it. Sorry, I am with my family, , whatever. Make it make up something because. No amount of emotional distress is worth your sanity and , yes, you are happy for them, but you can do it from afar. You do not have to be involved in it. So it is, , I feel  there’s a lot of triggers, especially around fertility stuff that and often it is  people in our age group are the people that are , Oh, she is also having a baby. She too. She too. She too. And it becomes , Well, what is this? Is this me that can’t? So it brings up a lot of fight or flight because now we are questioning the trust in our bodies and the trust in, Hey, I have a team of people that are supporting me to optimize what I need to work on. But it turns into  I am a victim and I am the only one that is going through a struggle. So yes, if we just try to.

Ann Shippy, MD

It is going to turn out.

Aumatma Simmons, ND, FABNE, MS

Yes, yes. The fear is this going to go well? Am I in the right place? Right? And just questioning everything. And the questioning is sometimes good and sometimes it is  creating more stress that you do not need. So whenever we can avoid it and create some boundaries and have awareness that it is  a trigger instead of being in denial about it, we have a patient. Who is  she she. This is her story. She went to three baby showers in a weekend and then Monday morning her appointment and she is completely freaking out. She is , When can I start trying? And you guys have had me on pause for  three months and we are sitting there , it is coming, but you are not ready.  optimal, fertile state not achieved yet. Oh, and she just. Kept going on and she is , you guys, I am not sure that this is working. And then we then I directly was , Does this have to do with the fact that your friends are pregnant and are about to have babies? She is , No, not at all. I am , You’re triggered from the baby showers that you went to. Yes. You’re in denial that you are triggered. And I do not know what we are going to do about that, Right?  you are not willing to accept that there was an emotional thing that happened which turned into feeling pressure around. How quickly is your process moving along and now you want to rush the process? When we told you upfront it is going to be 5 to 6 months. So. We’ll. You there, We’re on track. But you want to make it three months instead of 5 to 6.

Ann Shippy, MD

And it is so true. We have an investment in that time upfront, save so much time and energy and frustration in the long run. Yes. Preparing for the marathon. Mm. Yes. Yes. In a marathon you are not going to make it very far. Whereas if you have really done the preparation and it can go smoothly.

Aumatma Simmons, ND, FABNE, MS

Absolutely. Absolutely. And yes. And hard I get, I get it  the emotions are difficult and there’s so much that is happening around us that is often , Oh my God, it is me, it is me, it is me. And that is the message that we are getting from media. It is the message we are getting from other reproductive doctors. It is hard. So as much as we can refocus on  this, I am doing this for it is nice.

Ann Shippy, MD

Yes. And it is taking years to get to this place and a few months to unravel it. It is really reasonable. Yes. And really, I think, , the underlying message that you have is just really the trust and hope and faith in your body coming back and to your awareness and to your belief system. You really know that. That you can have this healthy baby and a healthy pregnancy.

Aumatma Simmons, ND, FABNE, MS

Yes Yes.

Ann Shippy, MD

Well, how can people find you? I know you have got so many wonderful things going on in the world.

Aumatma Simmons, ND, FABNE, MS

Yes. So the best place to connect is on Instagram: holisticfertility, Dr. Ann you can we do post a lot of content on there. So   free educational stuff and then you are welcome to  message on there. If you feel  you need some support or you need some guidance on which way to go, we are pretty active in the chats there and then our website is HolisticFertilityInstitute.com.

Ann Shippy, MD

Thank you so much. This is great information. I really appreciate you.

Aumatma Simmons, ND, FABNE, MS

Thank you for having me.