More Than Heat: How Infrared Fits Into a Longevity Lifestyle

Well, welcome to the Longevity Summit. I'm your host, Doctor David Jockers, and today I'm interviewing Vic Riffel. We're talking about how infrared fits into a longevity lifestyle.

If you're not familiar with infrared and infrared saunas, it is a powerful healing tool. Infrared is a certain wavelength of light. It's light energy that penetrates into our cells, where it has amazing benefits for increasing mitochondrial energy output, for improving nitric oxide, and improving blood flow and oxygen delivery to all the different tissues, bringing down inflammation, our body stimulating mitotic, or the breakdown of old damage mitochondria.

It's one of the most powerful longevity tools you can use. In fact, outside of lifestyle, nutrition, sleep, sun exposure, keeping stress under control, getting movement and exercise, you know, the number one, in a sense, the number one technology that I recommend for longevity is an infrared sauna.

And so I'm excited about this this interview here again talking with Vic Riffel. He is the partnerships manager at Sun Lighten, which is a leader in infrared sauna and light based wellness.

I love sunlight and amazing company and he serves as. He's one of the top guys over there. And so you guys are going to enjoy this interview. We're going to talk all about infrared, infrared, sauna, how to use it right to get the best benefits.

And also guys, you can save up to $2,100 and get free shipping on your sauna purchase, going to sunlight and.com and use the coupon code. Jockers my last name JOCKERS again to save up to $2,100.

They have all different types of units and models and they have people there, experts there that will actually help walk you through the best purchase for you.

It might be a blanket sauna because you don't have a lot of room in your house. Or it could be, you know, a really nice wooden sauna. Depending on your budget, depending on your health goals and the space, you have right to put one of these in.

Nice thing is they have blankets on us too that are very portable and easy to use. So guys, definitely check out Sunlighting.com. And if you're going to get anything over there, use that coupon code.

Jockers. You guys are in for a treat with this interview. And so without further ado, let's go right into it. God bless you. Well, here I am with Vic Riffel from Sun Lighten.

They are the leader in infrared sauna and light based wellness. And infrared saunas are one of my favorite personal tools that I use almost every single day.

Amazing health benefits that I get with it. And sunlight is really the leader in this space. And so I'm excited to have this conversation here with Vic.

So Vic, tell us all about infrared. Let's do a deep dive on it. Awesome. Well, thanks for having me. Doctor Jockers really excited to be here. And yes, this tool that we have, an infrared sauna.

To me, it's just that ultimate whole body longevity tool that everyone needs. I mean, I'm a bit impartial and that I have one myself and use it and work at sunlight and but the benefits are essentially endless, and we're still learning so much, which is what is really exciting about this technology.

And the future of infrared is it's endless. Like, there's going to be so much that we're going to learn and how to harness this amazing tool and light energy.

Yeah, no doubt about it. And so, you know, we really absorb light. I always say more illumination is to the body what malnutrition is to the body. And so most of my listeners are going to be familiar with malnutrition if we're eating processed foods all day for nutrient deficient, if we have a magnesium deficiency, a zinc deficiency, B vitamin deficiency, that's going to cause health problems, right?

But most people don't realize that light is information. Food is information, nutrients or information. Light is information, and light is extremely critical.

What type of light we're getting at different times of day is critical. And our ancestors were out in the sun throughout the day, and so they were getting kind of a full spectrum of light.

And obviously, you know, different rays at different times in a higher frequency, like red and infrared are a little bit higher in the morning. Right?

And then you get a lot of UV light, right, which is what gives you the tan, but can also sunburn you. And then that UV starts dropping down as the day goes on and you get, you know, a little bit more intensity of the, you know, red and infrared.

And so you get that full spectrum when you're out in the sun throughout the day. And but today most people we are you know, inside we've got, you know, fluorescent bulbs.

We've got, you know, basically we're getting illuminated and most people are staying up late at night with blue light. Right. And so they're getting poor light exposure at night as well, which blocks melatonin production and causes all different types of issues.

And so let's break down, you know, the importance of this light energy. And in particular I want you to go into infrared. Like this is a specific wavelength that we don't see.

It's not on the visible spectrum, but it has profound health benefits for us. Yeah, I love that introduction and just the comparison to nutrition. I mean, it's something that I do think that's the future is us understanding how much light we're getting. Is it good light?

Is it quality light. Because still don't even understand implications of all that junk light that we're receiving. I mean, to your point, we're stuck inside like I'm in an enclosed room, have some bright lights above me.

I myself have learned to kind of prioritize that light that we get naturally from the sun. But that's the perfect segue. Infrared is is safe and natural.

You did mention a couple pieces of the light spectrum. The UV side. There can be some damage caused by light and just the the parts of the spectrum that can damage, but infrared is safe.

So with the rainbow, I mean the visible part of light spectrum, you know, part of it is red. The other side is like the purple, the more blue colors, but next to red is infrared.

So on that part of the spectrum, it's invisible as you said. So it can be confusing to people like, what the heck is infrared if I can't even see it? And that's why it's even hard to have a product like an infrared sauna and know the difference of like the quality of that light when you can't see it.

It can be measured, but you don't see it. So what the heck is it? Well, it's divided into three different wavelengths. You've got near-infrared, which is the closest to read on the spectrum.

So those two wavelengths actually red. And here we kind of they're like brother and sister. They have very similar effects, high energy compared to the other infrared wavelengths.

But they are more surface level. So they don't penetrate as deep right away. But some of the benefits, it's the mitochondrial benefits, it's inflammation.

And those are all key topics, especially when we're thinking about longevity. Next to near on the spectrum is mid-infrared. So mid-infrared is another wonderful part.

And it helps with inflammation soreness muscle recovery. So it is kind of that medium wavelength as far as the energy as well as the length. And from there we've got far infrared.

Far infrared is the longest wavelength. It has a little bit lower energy. But with that said it's really easily absorbed and it's absorbed into our water molecules, which is really important because we're essentially almost 100% water.

Right? So if these water molecules are absorbing this energy, it's flipping on different switches. It's getting our circulation going, getting just our flow going.

That's warmth. That energy that we're taking in is used and harnessed. So that's where, as you said earlier, we were essentially born as solar panels, right?

I always like the analogy or just thinking on the other side of nature is plants. Like they harness that energy through photosynthesis, that kind of thing.

Like they really, really need light. So do we. But we are much like plants and that we are light beans and all of these different wavelengths that I just talked near, mid and far and even read.

They do amazing things to the body and I'm excited to talk about them today. Yeah, it's so important. Light is so critical for us. And this is actually one of the reasons why, like you and I are Caucasian.

So you would think, you know, if the sun is so damaging, like particularly UV light. And we've all, you know, especially Caucasians like us have been sunburned at some point before and it can be painful.

Right. But the reason why we have this whiter skin is because we don't want as much of the melanin blocking out sun energy from getting into our cells, particularly that UV.

And so our body has. And the more north you go and the less, you know, intense UV light in a sense the paler your skin becomes, so it can absorb the light energy into the the system.

Whereas, you know, if we're close to the equator, we're getting so much sun intensity, we build up that melanin layer to help protect us. But our cells need to be very, very sensitive to absorbing as much of the different spectrums of light as possible.

Right. Getting enough of the UV, enough of the infrared, enough of the red, right, all of that kind of stuff. And so that's in a sense where our skin is designed for.

Now, you mentioned earlier mitochondrial benefits, right. And so we're talking about longevity. You know, really ultimately the quality of our life comes down to how much how many stress resilient, high functioning mitochondria we have in the cells of our body.

And so how does infrared impact mitochondrial health? Yeah. So as I said, near and read together, photo bio modulation is something that is really popular nowadays.

There's a ton of red light products out there and it's never typically I can't say never. It's typically not just read, it's read and near together. And those two specifically are helping with mitochondrial function.

Even so, they're making your mitochondrial health more efficient. So if we're able to produce more ATP, that's more energy. So not only are they helping that health of the mitochondria that we have, but they can also help produce more mitochondria.

I mean, it's something that we always it's just this cycle of continuous cycle of getting more mitochondria that are producing this energy that then help downstream from there.

And that's where I think it's really important to think, even just beyond the energy side of like, okay, this is energy, but it's like, what is that energy doing?

It's helping with every system in the body, essentially. So that's one key part of like near and read. But far infrared also has some amazing effects when it comes to the mitochondrial health.

And again, it's something that we're still learning about. So there's not a ton of studies that can directly correlate A to B, but just by having better functioning mitochondria and more mitochondria, that is just that's energy right there.

Yeah for sure. And so I know one of the mechanisms is the cytochrome c oxidase enzyme which is critical. It's in it's in the mitochondria. It's what basically runs the electron transport chain.

And in particular complex four which tends to be like in the bottleneck area where we're exchanging electrons and protons. And we need to bring oxygen in.

And oftentimes nitric oxide can bind to that cytochrome c oxidase enzyme. And the infrared comes in, it basically unlocks nitric oxide. So when nitric oxide is bound there, it blocks or slows down cytochrome c oxidase from functioning in complex four.

And infrared unlocks that. So it pulls off cleaves off the nitric oxide, which is a later. So when that gets into the bloodstream, that helps basically activate better blood flow, better circulation, more oxygenation in different areas.

And then it allows that electron transport chain to, to operate properly in the mitochondria to produce more cellular energy, more ATP. So, you know, powerful cellular mechanisms that that have been shown with infrared and like you mentioned, the activation of more mitochondria.

So we call that mitochondrial biogenesis. And I always say again, the quality of our life ultimately in our longevity is going to come down to the amount of high functioning, stress resilient mitochondria.

And so part of the deal is we've got to get rid of old, damaged, senescent mitochondria and replace them with new young, healthy mitochondria. And infrared really helps with that.

And also heat does right the heat component of the sauna. Can you talk more about that as well? Absolutely. So just back to what you were saying though about heart health and the circulation.

I mean, when thinking about longevity, we need a strong heart and heart disease. It's one of the leading causes of death for adults across the world. So the the benefits are far beyond that.

And infrared is new to a lot of us, but it's not new. I mean, over in Japan, they've been using that as a first line defense for heart problems for years.

I mean, sunlight and was founded 25 plus years ago. And those were some of the studies that we were first learning about is how helpful it can be. And to your point, it's not just like the heart health, it's then that nutrient delivery, it's oxygenation.

So glad you pointed that out, because that is something that all of us are concerned about. I mean, everyone has a heart and it's never it's not going to stop beating until our final day.

So to have that strong is great. And then segueing that into the heat part, I mean, that is something that is extremely important. I mean, what we've heard and seen over the years to is just the traditional side of saunas, right?

So heat stress is a good stress. Obviously it can go too far for some people. We do have to be careful at these high levels of heat. But the benefits that we've seen, the studies that are out there, I mean, reduced all cause mortality, reduced heart disease, being able just to perform better, being able to walk further.

Some of those patients that have congestive heart failure that can't get up and move this heat therapy is helping them improve their health immensely.

And so what's happening there? Traditional saunas are awesome. So what the mechanism of action, though is, is that hot environment that you're in. And that's not to say that one's better than the other.

Of course, we prefer I prefer a traditional or an infrared sauna. And the fact that there's layers beyond just the heat. But there's no doubt that traditional sauna is incredible for your health.

So we're activating heat shock proteins. I've heard you talk about this on your podcast and with many different guests, with Connie or Co-Founder before, but these heat shock proteins, they're doing incredible services to our body.

I mean, when we're talking about those senescent cells or maybe just a top 50 where some of our cells are proteins, are misfolded or just kind of getting in the way gunk in up our system.

We're helping flush that out. We're training our immune system to be stronger. So when we're in that heated environment, we're flipping a switch in our body that's essentially cooling us down.

And so that alone is just a great way to train ourselves to be stronger, to be more resilient. And that's where the longevity benefits really start to happen.

So if we're doing that on a consistent basis and have that as part of our routine, our practice, it goes back to what we're talking about with our controlled environments, with the bad light.

Same thing. It's I'm in 70 degrees right now when it's 105 outside here in Kansas City. And we were essentially meant to be in that. So when we're in these controlled, comfortable environments, we're not getting those temperature fluctuations.

It's not that our bodies aren't as strong. It's just we don't know how to react as well. And so by training ourselves, activating those heat shock proteins, you can really just the downstream effects again are miraculous.

Really. Yeah for sure. So heat is a ancestral medic stressor. That means a medic stressor is a stressor. That is stress. But our body knows how to adapt to it because our previous generations built into our DNA, because our ancestors had to adapt to higher amounts of geographical stressors or temperature related stressors.

And so because of that, it's actually it can be therapeutic if we get the right dose. Right, just like you talked about. Okay. It could be too much for some individuals.

Like for example, if you are just really, really metabolically fragile, perhaps you've got chronic fatigue syndrome or you have a flu, right? Like this happened to me before, where normally I get my infrared sauna cranked up, like as hot as I can get it.

And then, you know, a few months ago I had the flu and the first day I was, I was in my sauna a bunch, trying to really recover and heal. And this was like a three day or two, 2 or 3 day flu that I had by day.

By the end of day one, it was like, I felt like this is too intense for me, like I actually need to back it down. So I just turned it on. I would just instead of heating it up, I would just get in with the infrared with very little heat.

And that was more therapeutic for me. That's the perfect way to do it too. It's about that. That's where the balance comes in. I mean, not everyone is needs to get in that high, high heat because it can be too much stress.

It can be that cortisol, cortisol spike that is making us more inflamed and is creating that environment that's not as beneficial for us. And that is where I hate to see people prescribe to, like, you need to get in at 220 degrees for 15 minutes, three times a week.

We're all different. I mean, as you said, like even yourself, it's going to fluctuate a little bit. So finding that right balance and even just tricking the body a little bit, I mean, as much as consistency matters, you do need to keep your body guessing sometimes.

So I'm glad you're able to find some relief there. Because if a three day flu that sounds. Yeah, it was rough. I actually ended up doing a three day fast, which was great.

By day four I felt amazing. So my body was able to clear out those senescent cells between the fasting right and the infrared right, getting in the sun on a regular basis, I was able to get some really good deep cellular healing.

So I feel like doing something like that. Like if I get sick like that once a year, which is typically what happens to me like for one bout a year where I just get really sick and it was and I like, I just shut down, stop eating, you know, and just focus on recovery, nap and sauna and get out in the sun when I can and walk right if I'm able to.

It's so therapeutic. Like, I feel like it actually helps me throughout the year. So, you know, you can use illness actually to make you stronger if you do the right things right during it.

But you know, that goes back to the idea of getting the right dose, right? It's kind of like exercise. You know, if you didn't sleep well the night before, you shouldn't do a really intense workout.

Okay. Well, it's kind of like that with sauna. When it comes to the heat, it is a stressor. And so you gotta naturally you gotta you gotta condition your body to it.

You got to build up, in a sense, your your level of heat, fitness, right, to really get it up high. But the good news is with an infrared sauna, you get benefits.

In fact, I remember my conversations with Connie. She would say, you actually get more of the benefits of the infrared. You don't get the heat benefits, but you get the infrared benefits if you just turn it on.

And maybe your saunas at like 80°F, right, which is not very hot, and you just turn it on. But the infrared itself is penetrating because it penetrates faster in that environment than it does when it's really hot.

That's what she was telling me. Yeah. And it's true. I mean, you think about it as a light switch, right? You turn it on. If you're doing red light therapy, you're not waiting for that to heat up.

Right. And that that's infrared there. So that is 100% true. And for me that's a been a game changer for my routine. Right. So for this habit to be come a habit you have to have that consistency that I've talked about.

And if it's something where if it's going to be a burden to get in because that sun has to heat up for an hour and there's a switch on the physical sauna, like if you're in a traditional sauna, then you're not going to get in as consistently.

So if you can just vary those sessions like I was talking about earlier, maybe sometimes get in when it's a bit cooler, 110 120 work towards that higher temperature by the end of your session.

It's still a great way to get the infrared wavelengths and some of these tools out there, like the ones we have. We have all these different wavelengths that we discussed the near, the mid, the far.

And like you were saying, you've got to have that right dosage and we're able to deliver that with our sunlight and saunas. So you can kind of customize a little bit or be more precise.

And I always like to think about it. Same thing with nutrients, right? If you have a vitamin C supplement that maybe you picked up at the big box store, it's most likely not.

Most of it will not be absorbed. But if you got this liposomal version that is absorbed into your body, that's when you're going to see the results and feel better or be more optimized.

Same thing with light. The quality matters quite a bit. And so when you're dialed in just right, that's when you can see those results even even more quickly for sure.

And with sunlight and you can kind of program the difference whether it's near mid far, how much of each you're getting, what would be a reason. Like why would somebody want more near versus more mid like why would they switch it up.

Can you break that down a little bit. Yeah of course. So we our impulse sauna is the one where you can customize. And we actually have programs you can get in and choose the detoxification program, the relaxation program, the anti-aging program, which is more kind of on the skin side of things.

But to me what we did was we broke down some of the studies that are out there, which infrared benefit align more closely with these different wavelengths.

And so that's where like when we were talking down the different wavelengths, mid-infrared is especially beneficial for the joints inflammation that kind of thing.

So having that in that muscle recovery program is important. Or maybe if you have an acute injury. So like me right now, I've been milking a knee injury for the longest time.

And what I'll do is sit up there with my knee right up next to those LEDs that have that near and that red. So I personally have all of the different wavelengths going, but it's important to establish to you can change these wavelengths, which means that it's using different heater mechanisms to produce these wavelengths or different tools.

So our LEDs produce the near-infrared and the red light. And so you can turn those on and off, but it's using them in the proper way so that you're actually absorbing it.

And so that's where there are full spectrum heaters out there. And we even have some in our different in our amplify. But the wavelengths are blended.

So it's not as effective as if they were produced singularly. So that is where maybe it's not as important to make sure you got that mid-infrared versus the far infrared.

But it's kind of that precision side that really makes a difference on that angle. But then to me too, like when I go in after work, let's say, and I push that relaxation program that has these different wavelengths, it's that act of just choosing the relaxation that can be super beneficial.

It's almost the placebo effect in a way, but it's more just the intention side of things to where it's like, I am getting in here to relax and that is what I'm preparing my body to do.

So same thing then, like with my knee, if I'm in there on doing like a pain relief program that is a lot of near-infrared red light. That's what I'm in there to do and that's what I'm my intentions are set to do.

Yeah, it's good. It's good for people to know and that the impulse sauna has, you know, all those different settings. So you just press it. You don't have to actually have the science down.

So yeah, you just press press whatever you're looking for, right. Whatever goals you're looking for and the right, the right wavelengths will come out to help you push that.

So exactly. And when it's like with diet, I mean, when people are dialed in and they know their macros, they know how much protein they're ingesting, how many calves, how much fat, it's a balance, right.

So same thing then with light. I mean, if we're kind of understanding, we're getting a good dosage of each. That's where we really know what's going on.

And again, that's where I think the future is going to take us, where maybe we learned on this day, thanks to my whoop data, I was drained. I got in the sauna and I felt better by the end of the day or I was more recovered.

That's where I really am excited about the future and why. I'm glad that I'm in this industry because again, it's just a safe, natural thing. We're not doing anything too dramatic.

It's something that you can apply in your own home. And we're seeing it all across the world. I mean, we're seeing it in gyms more than ever. And it's just it's something that's becoming more and more accessible and used and understood.

Yeah. For sure. Now, what should somebody look for when they are looking at a sauna? What should be the considerations. Yeah, there's a lot going on with that because with the accessibility competition is amazing.

That is where I am proud to be at sunlight. And because I firmly believe that we have the best infrared saunas out there, the best light technology. We've been in business for 25 plus years, so we've made the mistakes along the way.

We've learned and we've improved. So the quality is number one. When I've been at trade shows and I see our saunas next to some of our competitors, it's just a night and day difference looking at them.

But then also when you kind of peel back even the panels and look what's inside, you really need to be mindful of that light quality, like we've said.

So we've done third party testing. We know exactly what wavelengths are being delivered. We know how emissive our heaters are, which is essentially our body's ability to absorb that light so that quality matters.

Like you need to know exactly what you're getting. And it's not to say that maybe you just stay in longer, and some of these saunas that don't have quite the the dialed in frequencies, but that is a key component, the quality of the, the hardware itself.

So the outside, I mean, ours are incredibly sturdy. They look nice. So that's obviously more on the vanity side of things, but it matters. I mean, if you have this in your living room, for example, you kind of want it to look nice.

But beyond that, the safety aspect. So thinking about off gassing, a lot of these saunas might be filled with glues to keep the wood together or just these other toxic elements.

I mean, that was something that sunlight and learned early was some of these woods might be relatively safe, but it might react. And 0.1% of the population when it's heated up, maybe they do flare up or are a little more sensitive to that particular type of wood.

But beyond that, to its the EMS. These are electrical devices. Not everyone is as sensitive to emfs as some may be, but we have learned how to just keep that at a safe level where it's pretty much non-existent.

And we also have testing for that too. So it's kind of funny in the industry to see the zero EMF claims the ultra low is what we have, and it's not just a marketing term for us because we have that data to back it, but there's people out there that may claim that, and then they are in fact, the wires that are running are not as coded as they could be.

Or maybe they're in certain areas where that's exactly where you're sitting. So we've even been mindful of the placement of the wires and some of our saunas, like we were talking about the impulse.

It has that touch screen in there with these different programs, but you don't have to have that touch screen on. Or maybe you choose the amplify, which is a hotter experience because it doesn't have that touch screen.

So having these different options is extremely important because we're all different people to what works for me may not work for you, and most likely then probably does not work the same for my sister or my mom or my father.

So having these different options is great as well. And then I mean, honestly, it's like, look at who's backing these products, right? So to have a name like yourself, doctor, where you believe in sunlight and you believe in our products, you've done the research, right.

So that's where myself, I'm on the partnership side of things. We work with these incredible experts and have just hundreds of partnerships over the years, over the years.

And these guys like these experts, these folks are just unbelievably smart. And they have done the research. They understand the good and the bad, and there's a reason to believe in us.

And I mean, 25 years in the industry goes a long ways. Yeah, you guys are definitely the leaders in the industry, that's for sure, and put out amazing products.

And there are some people that can't either or can't afford or just don't have the space for like a wooden sauna. So that's where like nowadays you can get portable saunas as well, like blanket saunas, things like that, you know, so which are lower costs and you can, you can basically just fold them up, put them in the corner so you know that that makes it really, really easy.

And so we do have a it's a one person's called the solo system. It's something that's far infrared only. But it was actually used in one of our studies that we did with Umkc showing a reduction in blood pressure.

So having that type of tool where you can tuck it away, put it in a normal outlet, that does make a big difference. And that's where, again, even though this explosion is happening, where there's more saunas at gyms, that kind of thing, it's having it at home that kind of cuts that barrier.

Like if I wake up, I have more time to get in my sauna, get in a nice 45 minute long session than I would drive in ten minutes to the gym, get into the gym.

Who knows what's going to happen along the way. Maybe a stressful moment happens. We're cutting all that out. We're getting up, getting in our sauna, whether it's the blanket, like you said, portable sauna.

It's that at home accessibility that I think is really going to take this industry to the next level, especially as we understand exactly how this is going to help and what benefits we can get for ourselves.

Yeah, for sure. And then when it comes to dosage, I always say one minute is better than none, right? So any exposure is good. But my goal on a typical week, you know, in a typical week when I'm not traveling, things like that is I try to get 100 minutes a week, usually spread up over four days.

I was in it this morning for 25 minutes. It's a great time. I don't bring my phone in there, so it's just I have books and so, you know, we don't read enough anyways, right?

So it's like that's kind of my my thing is like, okay, the phone stays out of it. I'll put on music or something like that, but the phone stays out. Right.

And then I just go in and I'm there reading a book and I'm just sweating. Right. And, and I come out feeling amazing. And then I shower and I get started with my workday.

So I usually do it for my routine. I'm up at six and I'm usually in the sauna right after I go for a run with my dog. So it's usually like 8 to 8, like 755 to 820.

And then I shower, make breakfast for my kids, and then I'm in my office working. So that's usually my routine. That's a great routine. And something else that I wanted to point out too.

We've talked about these benefits, whether it's the heart benefits, the gentle stress we're getting, the heat. But you pointed out something that a lot of people don't really think about is we need this place to escape, right?

I mean, the stress that we're under every single day, I mean, working our 9 to 5 is going the extra mile, especially in the longevity space. I mean, we're optimizers, right?

So we're trying to do everything right. And that can be burdensome. So if we have this tool where we can put our phone away, we can do something that takes us way back and just reduces that stress, gets us into a different head or mindset completely.

That de-stress moment, having the kids away from us, maybe having the dog away from us that does more for us than we realize. And I personally, when I get out of the sauna, I come out just feeling great, like I may have been stressed throughout the day.

I personally saw it in the morning as well. Kind of similar time frame, but I also like those like end of day saunas after my works done. Shut my computer.

Holy cow, that was a stressful day. But guess what? Now it's back to me. I'm going to improve myself. That's what's important moving forward, right? I want to show it better for my family.

I don't want to go start dinner and be in a grumpy mood, right? I want to show up and be the smiling Vic that can be there and can get a beautiful dinner made and not be stressed about the the tomatoes that weren't included in my Blue Apron order or something like that, right?

Like it just makes everything a little bit easier. And we need more of those moments without that stress. And so to have that for saunas, I mean, the science shows it to the there's depression studies out there that are actually still underway, showing that the effects of just a single session in that heat of infrared can reduce the symptoms of depression for weeks.

And so that's the heat aspect. But it's also I think, I mean, it's important to think about just that escape. I mean, that's what we hear from a lot. And with my role at sunlight, and that's where it's neat to hear everybody's stories. Right?

I mean, we have endless story of people's different benefits that they personally have seen, whether it's rheumatoid arthritis or maybe it's helping them overcome drug addiction, the thyroid health, there's just endless stories.

And so I love just hearing every single person's reason there why that they get in the sauna. And that's something that we talk about all the time is like getting back to that.

Why? That's the whole point of being a company right now. It's to help people feel better so they can do more of what they love. Yeah, no doubt about it.

You know, I recently did a real and the guy that was was shooting the video was he was asking me like, rate these top bio hacks. Right. Like on a scale of 1 to 10 okay.

And, you know, he was going through all these different ones and infrared song I ranked out of ten because I'm like, you know what? Honestly, like it's the one that I feel the most, right?

Like, I love red light therapy. I don't feel it. Like I feel infrared sauna when I get out of that sauna cold, you know, like cold exposure. I'm not actually a huge fan of that.

I feel good, like I like doing it. In fact, usually once or twice a week I have a cold plunge as well. I'm blessed to have one of those. So I'll do the sauna, then go right to the cold plunge.

Feels great. And you do feel the energy and things like that. But looking at the research and everything, I mean, it just it's not even close to the same benefits that I get from from the infrared sauna.

Although if you can do both, you know, if you got the fitness level and you can do like a cold shower afterwards, great. But you know, for all these different bio hacks that that I see outside of like the basics, like prioritizing protein walking, really prioritizing good sleep, things like that, all the basics that we need to have as part of a foundation for a healthy lifestyle.

I always say if there's one thing you can invest in, get a get a good infrared sauna, even if it's a blanket sauna, right? Get get some sort of infrared sauna and put it to put it to use because it really does make a difference.

I've never had somebody actually use a sauna regularly and tell me, you know what? I didn't notice anything. I've never seen that. Usually the issue is usually the compliance.

They'll get it, but it like it sits there in the corner right. They're not using it. So actually getting them in it and using it then they notice the benefits.

Nuts I love that ten out of ten agree. I mean as I started it's the whole body longevity tool, right? It is something you can feel. I mean, I think about the first time that I saw it in an impulse sauna here at sunlight, and right before I got this job, it was actually my face.

I had touched my face and just the the skin benefit. I was like, why is it so smooth? Like, especially now as we're aging and thinking about more of those things, the benefits are endless and it is something you can feel right away.

Of course, it's not going to just treat your chronic inflammation right away, but it's getting to that foundational part. And it's that consistency with that compliance that you mentioned that is important. And it's tricky.

I mean, we have to commit to things. But if this is something that can help us feel so good, it's a no brainer. This is something that you need in your life.

And I mean, maybe someday it will be up there with diet and exercise as far as those pillars go. But for now, it's just an add on. Yeah, no doubt about it.

I always say, you know, start with getting out in the sun regularly, really prioritizing good sleep. So good light exposure during the day, getting out in the morning, getting early early morning light into your eyes on your skin, moving as well.

Getting movement throughout the day. Really prioritizing good sleep. Blocking blue light at night. So critical. Optimizing your nutrition. All the things that I talk about on my podcast when it comes to functional nutrition, really prioritizing all those things, breathing exercises, which can be really helpful.

But then it's like if you're going to invest into something really even before supplements, you know, I would definitely recommend a infrared sauna. And then once you invest in it, you got to use it, right?

Yeah, use it on a regular basis. Try to create some sort of routine, whether it's in the evening like you were talking about for relaxation, whether it's in the morning, like whatever, whatever a good routine is for you.

And the nice thing about having a at the House two is if you're not feeling well, I double down on it. Right. So like if there is a day like I told you about, you know, a few months ago when I had the flu, I was in there probably I think I did five sessions right that first day.

Now I had to bring the temperature down, but I just wanted to get that infrared exposure and that helps you recover so much faster too. So yeah, it's just really powerful.

And then in the winter time, you know, depending on where you're at your body, once you start using this, you're going to crave you're actually your body is actually going to crave that infrared exposure.

It's interesting. It's kind of like when you change your diet, instead of craving like the high sugar processed food, you start to crave fermented foods, right?

I don't know if you've you've been there before, but it's like, I'll be like, oh man, pickles, right? I want a pickle, right? I want sauerkraut, right?

I start to create my cravings change. And so you will start to really crave getting in there, especially on a colder day for not feeling as good. You're like, oh, I gotta get in that sauna.

Yeah, well, you just talked about it perfectly, where it's like breathwork and these other things that are helpful with, with our health and our routines.

You can do that in a sauna, right? Yeah. That is what's nice about this modality is you can get in there in Journal for you. It was reading for me it's it's breathwork and meditation because that is my time to slow down, set my intentions and otherwise I would probably skip it.

Right. But if I'm sitting on the couch, even I've. This was me last fall. I was like, football season. I'm just laying there being lazy on a Sunday. And then I was like, you know what?

I can watch this football game from my sauna. So let me go down there and do that. I mean, not everyone is going to need the impulse that has that screen.

So you can run apps like YouTube TV, but it's that stacking that can help you make that consistent and help with that compliance. And I mean, like riding a bike that's great for you, but you're not really stacking much besides getting out in nature, getting fresh air, that kind of thing.

You could listen to a podcast, I suppose, but that is where just thinking of those different ways to make it great for you and as you said, to just get in for five minutes like that's going to be better than nothing. So just just because you're not being perfect doesn't mean you need to skip that.

Yeah for sure. We have it in our my home gym. And so sometimes like my five year old daughter will come down. Just want to be with me while I'm while I'm working out.

And so I tell her, go. I'll put her in the sauna and just turn it on. You know, her attention span for staying in there is not going to be long, but she's in there for like 2 or 3 minutes playing with, like, a doll or something like that.

And I'm like, great, that's 2 or 3 minutes of infrared, right? Right on her body. So it's great when it's that safe and natural. I mean, it's it can be a family thing.

I mean, saunas in general. It's about community now with more of the personal sauna thing, maybe not as much, but it could be an official way to because you think about, like these traditional saunas, like at the gym steam rooms especially.

We haven't really talked about the toxins side of things a whole lot, but the amount of mold and just gunk that can be in some of these saunas, especially those steam saunas.

When you have it at home, you can set your own cleanliness routine. Whether it's towel usage, it's actually cleaning everything thoroughly sometimes. I mean, I still use my gym sauna at times, but halfway through that session, oftentimes I'm like, that sweat that's just covered this bench.

Like, if that's consistently happening throughout the day, this place is kind of funky. Yeah, it's definitely nice to be able to have it at your house.

And like I said, I mean, again, talking to a lot of different people, you know, they're saying, well, I can't fit a sauna into my place. And that's where the blanket sauna, you know, helpful, right.

And that's portable. So, so if you're traveling a lot, you know, you can bring that with you. So there's different options depending on where you're at.

And you guys can check out sunlight. And com and Vik set up a really nice offer for you guys to. You can save up to $2,100 and get free shipping on your sauna purchase.

And depending on how big a sauna you get, that adds up because you know, if you're getting like a big wooden sauna, it's going to be a lot to ship it.

So free shipping plus $2,100 go to sunlighten.com and the coupon code is just Jockers. My last name JOCKERS at Sunlighten.com. So Vic, you talked about toxins.

So critical. I mean, we didn't even talk about detoxification and how critical that is in our society. But, you know, all of us are just loaded with toxins.

I mean, it's a huge issue. And infrared sauna is one way we can move these toxins out. In fact, it's one of the most effective ways we can move toxins out of our body, improve circulation.

The infrared actually helps stimulate toxin release from the cells. Right. And then also from fat cells, which is really where we tend to store our toxins are in our fat cells.

And so the infrared will actually go in and help push those out, get them into circulation. I'm going to make sure we're hydrating right. And keeping all of our detoxification pathways open.

So, you know, we pee and poop and sweat these toxins out and breathe them out. Actually, those are our four ways that we move them out. So breathwork we talked about that, making sure we're staying hydrated, but also getting that sweat, moving those toxins out through the sweat.

Yeah. And it's like you said, we're just in this toxic soup essentially now. And even if you're as perfect as you can be with the glass bottles and avoiding the certain creams and even your clothing, we're still breathing in so much, we're still subject.

I mean, maybe your office has a mold problem that you don't even know about, and you're in there 48 for the 40 hour workweek, right? Just breathing that in. And I've even heard people talking like breathwork has become such a popular thing.

Nice deep breaths of this bad air, right? So having that opportunity to not only detoxify directly, but it's supporting, as we talked about, the the health of those systems that can also help with the detoxification.

And then you can stack binders, whether it's activated charcoal, the zeolites I mean there's so many options that you have to pair with your own body and what's working for you.

It's just really neat to have that so that you can get a step ahead. Maybe it's going to help with your inflammation, maybe it's going to help with allergies or whatever you have going on to get to that foundational problem and help at that level.

It's a no brainer. Yeah, no doubt about it. I mean, again, I'm just a huge advocate of infrared saunas. I've rearranged my whole schedule with four young kids and a bit of busy business. Right.

In order to make sure I'm getting my dosage of sauna on a regular basis. And I would highly encourage you, no matter where you're at, matter what your your health goals are, whether it's longevity, whether it's, you know, maybe you've got gut issues, autoimmune issues, whatever it is, thyroid issues, sauna, a really good high quality infrared sauna, getting in there on a consistent basis.

Be one of the most powerful strategies that you apply to accomplish your health goals. So highly, highly recommend it! This has been a great interview.

I love what you guys are doing over at sunlight and any last words in inspiration here for our audience? Yeah. So just right quick setting expectations.

Like when you come to our website, we try and have all the information out there, but what's really going to happen when you're ready to make that purchase?

There's a form you can fill out, get pricing form, and you're going to speak with an actual sauna expert, like we're taking the next level to have that kind of approach.

Where who are you? What are your health goals? What is going on in your life and why are you wanting this on? Is it for yourself? Is it for your family?

And so to have these experts that can talk you to the right sauna that's meant for you because like you said, maybe not everyone needs this big wooden cabin sauna.

But let's get you started in our solar system. Maybe let's start you with a red light panel so that you can get put this in your apartment or your condo, because you can't do that electrical.

Like, we have an amazing team across the board that's there to support you and make sure you're getting exactly what you need. So I wanted to put that out there.

But then another parting word is you've covered it so well. Just use light to your advantage in all the different ways. Block the bad light, bring in the good light, and just enjoy life as much as you can.

Because what's longevity if you're not here to enjoy it? So make that a big part of what you're doing and emphasize that as well. Love that. Thanks so much again.

The website is Sunlighten.com and you can use the coupon code Jockers for that special savings as well. And everybody be blessed.