PEMF Device Design Concepts For Parmeds Devices

William Pawluk, M.D., MSc

Today I’m interviewing Ben Phillipson, who is the owner of the Curatronic System of Devices. So I’d like to ask Ben about himself, his background, his education, and start with that.

Ben Phillipson

Okay, well, I’m a Dutch guy and I lived half my life in Amsterdam, in Holland. I attended various schools, including studying electronics, and specializing in medical electronics, because I was very much attracted to the medical side of applications and advantages, which were being made in those times in the medical field. I was technical director for our company in the Netherlands, selling heart monitoring systems, physiotherapy equipments, and my function over there, we got very often asked by medical doctors and cardiologists what to advise to use in the hospitals. So at that time we were selling monitoring systems, a neuro station manufacturing in Germany. And new developments had to be interpreted on those devices, which was not always possible. Because, well, there is a big, large manufacturing company behind you, so then, less flexible, than if you do some adaptation yourself. So what we did, well, I did, actually, was adapting a cardiac monitor system with special alarm systems, second traces, memory systems, all electronics, mainly analog electronics and partly digital electronics, sorry, to these existing devices. 

I designed a battery backup systems for the mains powered defibrillators. We improved possibilities, or I improved possibilities for fail safe use and mirror proof devices applied in hospitals. At the same time, we were actually promoting physical therapy devices, short wave, microwave, all kind of stimulators. And this brought us, also, to an alternative field. I developed a full range of electroacupuncture equipment, including for anesthesia, point detectors, diagnosis, treatment systems and laser systems. And I was the first who developed a helium-neon laser system for wrinkle treatments. I know there is still one in use in Belgium still today because they were asking some advice not too long ago. And I developed a full range of electromyography biofeedback devices. I hooked up one of the first of EMG devices to an Apple II+ computer when it came to the market, showing on screen to the users their performance, using it also for children to activate an electrical train for NC60, they were able to cross a certain amount of EMG signal. 

I developed a temperature monitoring system for biofeedback, GSR response system for biofeedback, and a whole bunch of devices. But at a certain moment, I said, “Listen, this is very nice and I have a nice job.” And I was due to take over the company, but you know, I’m Jewish and my family suffered during the Holocaust. A major part of my family didn’t come back out of the camps. And luckily my parents survives, and also the father of my wife. So we decided we go to Israel, and that’s what we did. We moved in the end of 1983 to Israel, but not after having been introduced, a couple years before to a German scientist, by the Dr. Manfred Fichtner, who actually was one of the earliest, maybe the earliest developer of a pulsating magnetic field therapy system, which was called in German, . You understand some German so you understood the word. Magnetic field therapy devices. So he came to the market and he was looking for… He was selling in Germany, but it wasn’t simple, because at the same time period, electroacupuncture, homeopathy, all these kinds of things were coming up. So bringing something new was not so simple. But anyhow-

William Pawluk, M.D., MSc

What year was that?

Ben Phillipson

I beg your pardon?

William Pawluk, M.D., MSc

What year was that?

Ben Phillipson

That’s around the end of the ’70s. I think, ’78, ’79, something like that. So I visited his office in Germany and saw the equipment. And I saw what he was doing was actually very interesting. So he came to Holland and we did a tour together. And we introduced the technology to the tour personals and also medical doctors, quite interesting. But the problem was there was a lot of competition, as I mentioned before, already, in other fields, alternative treatment fields. So after three years or something after we sold quite a few systems, it was economically not attractive anymore to continue working with that. And we dropped out of our program, actually. Now, the interesting thing is, when I came to Israel, I started to working for a Foster company in monitoring systems, heart monitoring system, traveling a lot. I also work for the largest school system here in Israel, in the laboratory for development for students, so they could practice their theoretical, what they learned at school, by building electronic devices. Anyhow, I ended up at the company, selling catheter equipments, lithotripters and thermal therapy system for prostate treatment.
And I did that for almost 10 years. But before I left that company, I traveled a lot in Eastern Europe. I opened the market in Russia, actually, it was very interesting times. And during my travels, and a lot in Germany, I saw a renewed interest in application of magnetic fields, specifically in the field of osteoporosis treatment. So I did some follow up and I said, “If this is coming up again, well, we should definitely look into this.” So I went to my boss, the owner of the company here in Israel then, and I proposed, “Listen, we can do something similar, but we can do better.” And I went to one of the exhibitions in Germany, I saw one of those low intensity devices. And I said, “That’s not the way to go.” And we developed a system, we started selling it and oddly enough, the first systems were sold in China, where there was an enormous interest in this. We also added the diagnosis system for osteoporosis, x-ray-based peripheral measurement system. And then I went to China and I trained the doctors over there on how to use the system. And then also we got interest from the Russian Space Agency, those cosmonauts who were returning from the MIR station after so many years, they lost a lot of bone density. So one of the devices ended, actually, up in the treatment for center for those cosmonauts, also interesting. Anyhow, took cut a very long story short, I said to my boss, “Listen, I want to go independently and I’m going to leave the company.” He didn’t wanna let me go. 

But I said, “Yeah, that’s my calling.” So then, in 1998, I started my, actually, the preparations for developing my own devices. And it took almost two years to design the very first Curatron PEMF device. And I introduced it in a market, started my own company in the year 2000 and actually started selling the device. So I was very, very early in the market, in the whole market, and in the low cost professional market for MDs, for instance, like yourselves. And the rest is history as they say. It slowly grew, and nowadays I think we are, possibly, one of the leading companies in the field of PEMF devices in the world. We have devices in almost 100 countries around the world, in five continents. We are the only company who are manufacturing, both oscillating through PEMF systems and impulse high intensity PEMF systems. And more or less covering the whole range of possible applications, what you expect from PEMF devices, including your own ideas with the neuro programs we recently integrated according to your request in one of the devices. And it’s fun, to tell you the truth. It’s nice to be able to help other people to find this technology. I mainly concentrate on R&D and backing up of servers, like yourself, you are doing a fantastic educational job, I think. And I’m not only one thinking this. And enabling you to advise your potential customers, which system is probably best for the applications. And happily enough, our devices or one of devices, or some couple of devices, you are promoting. So that’s a bit of my background.

William Pawluk, M.D., MSc

All right, well, let’s go back. Thank you for that. Let’s go back and talk about, most, your transition from let’s say, lower intensity systems, compared to the devices that you probably saw in Germany at the time, most of those are probably very low intensity systems.

Ben Phillipson

Correct.

William Pawluk, M.D., MSc

So arbitrarily, let’s say that low intensity systems are let’s say, under 200 microtesla, 300 microtesla, otherwise they’re below two gauss or three gauss.

Ben Phillipson

Yes.

William Pawluk, M.D., MSc

So your system is one of the lowest intensity ones that we have from your development, actually, at the whole body pad is about 70 gauss.

Ben Phillipson

Correct.

William Pawluk, M.D., MSc

So that’s already almost 70 times stronger than many of the other legacy, low intensity PEMF systems in Europe. So why did you go up from that low intensity level, very low intensity level, to the intensity level that you have started with?

Ben Phillipson

Yeah, I didn’t go up. I simply didn’t believe that it could work very well. Gut feelings. The truth of the matter is, I said, when I looked into the possibilities, and into what was on the market at that moment, I didn’t believe that those very low intensity devices could do a good job. It possibly did a good job for wellness, superficial treatment. It does have some advantages for capillaries, for blood treatment, but getting through into the body, deep into the body, that’s not possible. So when I looked into the available documentation study that was on the market, I saw an article about two Japanese scientists. And they, long ago, in the ’50s, they discovered a Piezoelectric effect of bone. Now, there are electric fields and there are magnetic fields. Electric fields are produced by a voltage. And a voltage exists when there is an electrical cable connected somewhere, but it’s not carrying any current inside the cable. And the electrical fields can be measured by this volts per meter, that’s the distance from the cable. Now, then you switch on the lamp, and actually then, the electrons are starting, going through the cable towards the lamp, and then around the cable, there is an electromagnetic field, which is measured in gauss or in tesla. And that’s actually what we are talking about, about magnetic fields.

William Pawluk, M.D., MSc

Right.

Ben Phillipson

Now, going to the next slide. I was talking about the two Japanese scientists, and they discovered, when they took a piece of bone and they put it somewhere, fixed it at one side and put a weight on it on the other side, and they started moving it by one centimeter, that’s, let’s say, a third of an inch, and then they could measure on both sides, a plus, minus sign, an electrical excitation voltage of one and half milli-volts. And this was in sync with the movement of the weight on the other side of the bone. And they said, “Okay, right. We have here Piezoelectric effect of the movement of the bone.” If you compare this, for instance, with your alarm clock, your alarm clock, when it does beep, beep, beep, how does it beep, beep, beep? There’s a crystal inside. And the crystal inside is agitated by an electrical pulsating current. Now then it starts a very tiny movement of the Piezoelectric element itself, which gives the movement into the free air and that has been translated into sound, and that’s the basis of of how you hear your alarm clock in the morning when it goes off. Because you have set your alarm at a certain time, and at that certain time, an electrical pulsating current is being applied to both sides of the Piezoelectric element in your alarm clock. Now you can do the other way around as well. You can say, “Listen, if I apply a electromagnetic induction into a certain element, I will create in the element or in bone, in the body, I will create a very, very small, tiny electrical current, going through bones, bones through cells.” So what you actually obtain, what you get is microcurrents inducted or created inside the body of a human being because of induction of pulsing electromagnetic fields.

William Pawluk, M.D., MSc

Which I make is called Faraday’s law, Faraday’s law of induction, right?

Ben Phillipson

Correct. Now, if for instance, if we have a coil, and this is a flat coil on this, you can see when I moved my mouse here, right?

William Pawluk, M.D., MSc

Yes.

Ben Phillipson

Okay. Now, this is the coil, You see the electromagnetic force go out, within the coil, and here you see it stretch out and it closes again in the same coil, this electromagnetic field. Now, this electromagnetic field extends beyond, of course, beyond the coil itself, and it spreads out into the air. Now, I will get back to this in a moment because some people say, “All right, the magnetic field is actually attached to a coil like a soap bubble,” you say. Which is, in my eye, my opinion, is nonsense. Because, of course, that is a field around it, but it’s not attached to the field. It’s going through the ring, through the coil itself, and it spreads out much more than inside this bubble on. But it decreases in intensity, of course, where you get away from it. Now, this slide shows you, here is a coil, for instance. Now, the most intense field is the darkest color, is the red color. But this doesn’t mean that when you get away from the coil, and the color gets lighter, you still have an electromagnetic field. It’s less in intensity, but the electromagnetic field exists over there. 

So you should not limit yourself only where the coil itself is, but also around the coil itself. Now, and this brings us to actually happens in the electromagnetic field. The white lines are, in electromagnetic field, going through a free space over here. It’s called magnetic permeability, the possibility of the magnetic field going through the space itself, and creates inside an internal field. Now, if you compare this to the human body, the human body has a very low magnetic permeability. It’s similar as air. So the electromagnetic fields go through the body quite easily, not 100%, but quite easily. But if you, for instance, take a metal, iron, it’ll absorb the magnetic field lines. Because it has a very high magnetic permeability, the iron, and it’ll block off a major part of the magnetic field. That’s why I also say, if you treat a person on a matrix and you put it on a bed, make sure you don’t have metal or too many metal parts inside the bed because they will disturb the electromagnetic field lines of what you’re trying to apply. So it’s better to use a wooden table, for instance.

William Pawluk, M.D., MSc

Or or other material, but not metal.

Ben Phillipson

Not metal, right. Now, this system shows you that the Mu form in free space, the Mu naught is Ur, which is similar for air and for you human body. So this shows that a electromagnetic fields will penetrate the body of a human being. Now, how do we explain this? That’s a problem. Because there are, and we will get to that in a second, there are very complicated calculations for measuring and for establishing the electromagnetic field at a specific distance of a coil. So as an example, and I repeat, as an example, I use the only one point source, in this case, it’s a lamp, and everybody knows it, it’s very easy to understand. If I go away from the light, the light diminishes the further go away from the light. So if you are at the distance of one, let’s say, one inch from a light source, and you go up to, in distance of, for instance, 10 inch, or it could be feet, or it could be meters, or whatever, the intensity of the light drops dramatically. And it’s easy to understand. And that’s also the example you use in the drops by the inverse square of the distance. Now, this is correct for point light source, which is used for x-ray devices, for instance. It’s being used for a gravitational measurements. But for electromagnetic fields, it’s not the correct way to measure. But again, then we get-

William Pawluk, M.D., MSc

It can be an approximation.

Ben Phillipson

It’s a good approximation, yes. You can use it as a comparison for explanations, how electromagnetic fields diminishes intensity over distance, yes.

William Pawluk, M.D., MSc

Yeah. In fact, this is called, if I recall, this is Newton’s law.

Ben Phillipson

I don’t want to go into all kind of laws like Coulomb, Newton, Faraday, Lenz.

William Pawluk, M.D., MSc

Exactly, it’s complicated.

Ben Phillipson

It’s too complicated. And if people are interested in this, everything is on the internet, they find it in Wikipedia with explanations, whatever, but I don’t want to go into it. But I want just to outline the basics of electromagnetic measurements and how it’s being in depth, more of less. Now, this, for instance, is a very complicated, formula, and you see here in another form. And this is true for a wire. What is being measured? There were two French scientists, one by the name of Biot, and the other Savart, and it’s called the Biot-Savart law. And this allows us to calculate, at a certain point in space, the strengths of the electromagnetic fields. And there is another formula, here is another example in a wire, and you get a certain distance, how strong is the electromagnetic field still at that specific point? And let’s concentrate one second on a circular coil. This is a coil, electromagnetic coil. We see the electromagnetic fields around the coil, and we wanna know what’s going on over here. Because we are not… We are laying on the flat surface of the coil when we are on the mat, but our body is, let’s say, is a feet thick. So I wanna know what, if it penetrates, still, my bones and cells completely. So there are, again, here is the expression of the magnitude of the magnetic field of the Biot-Savart law. Looks very complicated. It is complicated. So this is not the time and the moment to go into this because, as I said before, people should Google the Biot-Savart law and they will understand that it’s almost not understandable only when you are really into physics very deep. 

And I just want to point out, we are interested in the field sense of this point P. Well, that’s exactly at the axis of the coil of certain distance. But I’m also interested and I wanna know, if the filter is still here, and if the filter is still here. So what this number gives me. I’m not impressed, to tell you the truth. But if you want to know it, definitely yes, there are calculations and you can fill in, in the current of the loop, you can fill out the radius of your loop of your coil. You get the B factor, the B is the electro field strengths. Also called H when measured in human body because it doesn’t make a difference or not much. And you can get it in tesla, you get it in gauss. You can also add what is the distance from the center of the loop. And then you get the strengths at that specific distance. But I want to make life much easier, by comparing what’s the difference between high intensity versus low intensity electric magnetic fields. Here’s the MRI. Well, I, also refer to the MRI systems. And what is an MRI? An MRI needs a very, very strong electromagnetic field or a magnetic field, actually, to align the protons, which are actually tiny magnets inside the body of every person, which is the center of hydrogen, atoms, and those protons that are like tiny magnets. And those tiny magnets can be aligned. So if we put the patient in an MRI machine, we are going to align the protons under the electromagnetic fields of that specific person. 

If there is no magnetic field, the protons are pointing in all kinds of directions. But as I said before, protons are tiny magnets. So as soon as I put them in a very, very strong electromagnetic field, and mind you, this is not a field, which is, or it’s a field, which is much stronger than you have in a low intensity or medium intensity, or possibly even high intensity PEMF device. These are strengths of while you can have an MRI machine of half a tesla, but if you get the good picture, the quality of the picture, you need one and a half tesla going up to three tesla. So what happens, actually is, when a person lay in an MRI machine, you start to hear bing, boom, boom, boom. All kind sounds, very loud sounds. That’s a reason why a person in the machine gets a headphone with music, for instance. So it doesn’t disturb too much. And those noises are being caused by a very strong electronic process going into gradient coils inside the MRI machines, which actually, with very much force, tilt the protons out of sync of the magnetic field. At the moment that the gradient is this, or that the radio frequency field is being disrupted, the protons jump back into the straight direction and they emit a form of energy to this. Energy is being measured in a very special way with coils inside the device and is the basis of forming for the 3D images of an MRI machine. You can get slices of pictures and different results compared to CT machine. CT machines are x-ray machines. 

But the MRI machines shows, for instance, soft issue, it shows cancers, and it has different application. But again, as I already explained to you, I don’t need the technical stuff behind it. So that’s the proof that you need very strong mechanism in order to penetrate the complete body. So, if it’s possible to have very low intensity devices, PEMF devices, to penetrate the full body, why don’t they make those very low intensity devices also for MRI machines, because it’s possible? You need to completely penetrate through the body. So that’s the reason why you need high intensity. Now, as I said before, electromagnetic fields are being inducted into the body of a human being and they create a very small, very tiny currents, as I explained before with the Piezoelectric effect. The tiny currents, they need to penetrate inside blood, inside bone marrow, or cerebellum, in the heart or in the kidney. And this is the table, which I created for pulses in frequencies of 10 Herz, which are popular for a PEMF devices. And show the dielectric properties for the penetration of the different area, of the different tissues. Here you can see, for instance, this number is low number. So blood is easy. Blood has a certain content of oxygen. It is partly a paramagnetic, diamagnetic, depends on the saturation of oxygen and on the influence inside the blood of the magnetic particles. But now look at the other end, the cerebellum, the head. It’s five, six, seven times more difficult to penetrate with electrical currents that it’s with blood. 

Or look at the kidneys. It’s very difficult to penetrate through the heart or through the kidney. So you can’t just say, “Okay, use a low intensity PEMF device for treatment of the brain or the kidneys.” But you might be able to use a very low intensity device, for instance, for blood treatment. Because blood streams are very superficial in the capillaries under your skin. So it’s very easy to get there. So you don’t need a lot of power, a lot of intensity to reach inside the blood. Now, here’s another table. It’s all of difficult explanations, electromagnetic skin depth, permittivity again, conductivity and wavelength, but you see differences in the different, for fat, for muscle, for bone, kidney, et cetera, et cetera, and the different numbers in this table behind. Now, also the skin. The skin and fats and muscle have different propagation for waves. So if I want to penetrate deep inside the body, or if I… Let me give another example. A modern implanted devices like pacemakers, or like, other device pumps, insulin pumps, which are implanted into the body of a patient, well, the surgeons like to implant those devices in fatty tissue, not in the skin, that’s too superficial, but not in the muscle as well. And why do you want to implant in the fat? Because those devices can be charged like you charge your smartphone on a pad by placing your smartphone on a charging pad. The thing can be done over here because the wave propagation in fat is much lower than for muscle. So to charge a battery inside an implanted device, inside the body of the patient is much easier because the wave propagation inside fat is lower than surrounding muscle or bones even, or whatever.

William Pawluk, M.D., MSc

Now you’re talking about electrical or wave transmission? Or what is the wave that’s transmitting through fat versus muscles?

Ben Phillipson

It’s the electromagnetic waves, actually, which you are going to induct into body of the patient. So you want do that as easy as possible.

William Pawluk, M.D., MSc

Although the magnetic field penetrates through all the tissues in the body equally.

Ben Phillipson

Yes and no. Let me put it this way. The body, and that’s this picture, actually, because your question was expected. Sorry. This is a picture for light, but the skin has sweat, the skin is not flat for electromagnetic degrees. It has a different, superficial adhesion of strange materials. And not all the electromagnetic intensity you want to induct into the body of the patient gets through. And this is not critical for high intensity devices. But it might be critical for low intensity devices. Because anyhow, they have a problem already penetrate deep inside the body, if at all. So they will suffer also, like, if this is, for instance, a non transplant glass, which you have in the shower, for instance. A part of light is being deflected. A part is being absorbed inside the glass. A part is being scattered around in another direction. And only part is being transmitted through the skin inside the body of the patient. I don’t say this is a major issue, but it might have influence and it possibly does have influence on very low intensity electromagnetic field devices. Now, let’s talk a little bit about magnetic flux density. I don’t need to explain what you’re seeing over here. If I open my faucet very, very far, I get a lot of stuff, a lot of water going through. If I open it just a little bit, that’s all I get, just a couple of drops. Now, let’s continue to the next slide. And look at this, if you have a coil over here and my field strengths go through it, through this area, or I have a larger coil with a larger magnetic flux, a larger magnetic flux density, then I get much more magnetic intensity inside the body of the patient. 

And I will get back to this in a minute, because this is very important for the size of the coil, and this has a lot of implications for other possible information I will address a little bit later. Let’s first look at some basic stuff. Sinus waves, the red one, or a square wave, or a triangle wave, or a sawtooth wave. A lot of information is going on the internet on which one is the most important one. And talking about NASA studies and all kinds of different publications, which is the right form of a wave for electromagnetic therapy? And well, I want… Let’s put it this way, Fourier, oh, sorry, I apologize I’m using the name Fourier, but he said that all the other forms of waves are part of a sine wave. And this can be proven also, actually, by using the right formulas. But lets a look at, for instance, the square wave or look at, a kind of triangle wave, because if I induct into the body a square wave, I don’t get inside the body exactly this wave, it’s more being bent off because of the transition time because of the obstructions it meets. Although the body is transparent for electromagnetic waves, it’s also being influenced by all kinds of external reasons. But I just wanted to show that this area is a critical area and you don’t get the very fast time of what you call also dB/dt, I will get back to that in a second. Because dB/dt is the rate of change of the magnetic field over time and it’s being expressed in tesla per second. 

Now this whole discussion about the form of what’s good or not good for PEMF, I think is exaggerated and possibly even wrong. What is correct is, we have to look at the duty cycle. The duty cycle is when a signal is being inducted into the body and when it’s switched off. The duty cycle, this is not a frequency. This is one frequency, distance. But this is the during one pulse how much time, actually, the energy is going into the body. If it’s a 50% duty cycle, 75% duty cycle, 25% duty cycle, these are just a couple of examples. Now it’s often not addressed, for instance, by very low intensity or possibly even medium intensity battery devices. Battery devices need to get that energy from the battery. And recharge or not rechargeable, doesn’t matter. All the energy they take from the battery, almost all the energy goes into the pulse itself. So if you have a duty cycle of 50% or more, that battery will be exhausted very, very fast. So the manufacturers of those devices look probably more at a very short duty cycle. And why is that important to extend the battery line? But on the other hand, PEMF is energy medicine. I want to put into the body of a patient, energy. And if I have a very short, well, duty cycle, the amount of energy is very low. I’ll get back to that later on as well. Oh, here it is already. Okay, if I have a very short pulse, and this is an example of a 4,000 gauss energy pulse by a high intensity devices, like Spark Systems, or like, FLASH devices, which get a very, very short 200 microseconds, so less than a millisecond, millions of a second pulse, the intensity is very, very high, but the pulse is so short that inside the pulse there’s hardly any energy. 

But if you look at different systems like, the true oscillating or what they are called? Curarton permeate devices, the Yellow line in the manufacture. And you look here at the 500 gauss, for instance, for the 3D Ultra, you get, when you have a duty cycle, more than 50%, you get the enormous amount of energy, which is inducted to body of the patients. And that’s what called energy. Really, energy medicine. This I can hardly call energy medicine. So I just wanted to differentiate and point out, it’s nice to have very high intensity pulses, but the application for very high intensity pulses is more for, yeah, I’d like to call it numbing up tissue and numbing up nerves. And this is more for treatment. The underlying reason why somebody needs sufficient PEMF energy to get in the body. Now I talked about dB/dt and that’s what you did also in your article, that’s the speed of how fast the energy is being inducted into the body of the patient. And the faster the intensity is being changed, or it’s called the speed of induction or the slew rate, it’s also called slew rate, that’s actually dB/dt, it’s the change of the electromagnetic energy over time. And if you can keep it as short as possible, to induct as much as possible energy, in the short as possible time, I induct, I penetrate completely inside cells, inside tissue. I might even get the electroporation effect in cells, which makes them more transparent for other influence, detoxification or inducting, possible other medications inside cells, energy inside cells.

William Pawluk, M.D., MSc

Or nutrients.

Ben Phillipson

I beg your pardon?

William Pawluk, M.D., MSc

Or nutrients?

Ben Phillipson

Or nutrients, of course, yes. To energy themselves, ATP, what is being called. And that’s why it’s so important to have a short dB/dt or to have a fast speed of induction inside the body of the patient. And why do I say this? Because using a triangle pulse, or sinus pulse, which is very slow, you don’t get the very deep effect, which you want to obtain inside bone and inside difficult to penetrate like the brain, most effectively. So that’s why it’s important to have a pulse which goes fast inside the body as possible. Now, so this looks ideal, right? We have here, let’s say three Hertz, three pulses per in the second, if this is the second. And I use the square wave. But it doesn’t work that way because I want to induct energy inside the pulse as well. So I go to my next slide, and that’s what we do. We have a basic sine wave as basis for our devices. Now, what we do is inside that orange square, you saw here before, are a series of those pulses. Now, as I said before, a sinus wave starts very slowly. So I don’t get the effect as fast as possible inside the body. But when we can detect when the signal is at the height, the highest point of the sinus signal, and then switch it on in the body, I get a very, very fast rise time inside the block, which I showed before, the orange block before. And this is all energy inducted, the blue area inducted into the body of the patient, inside each individual pulse, in that window, that orange window, I showed you before. So how can I influence the amount of energy that goes to in the body? So first of all, I established that the fast rise time, the dB/dt, yes, we have over here, it goes extremely sharp pulse. Then we have a couple of these inside each block itself. 

Even if it’s three pulses per second, we have inside each one, a couple of those, these are all energy inducted into the body of the patient. But I don’t always need the highest intensities. So what do I do? I cut off the sine wave, and I use only this part. Which I still get it very, very, very fast. Rise time over there. So I don’t trade off. I always get inside the orange window I showed before, even if I use lower intensities, I get the same amount and at the same speed of rise time inside the body of the patient. Now, let’s talk a little bit about mats. Therapeutical mats or mats, if you wanna call it, and you probably recognize this one. This is a very funny way of manufacturing a whole body mat. First of all, if this head sine why are they so, this coil have many, many less turns or many less copper turns than this one and these ones? I don’t quite understand. If the brain is much more difficult to penetrate, and the kidneys are much more difficult to penetrate, why would I put all the energy on my legs? On my hips? I don’t quite understand this. I also don’t understand why they have a large surface. Some people say, “Yeah, because the surface is large, you get a lot of intensity.” But it’s not true. Because also, this specific device, has a very low current. So the amount of intensity, of energy being generated by these coils is very, very low. Now look another way of doing it. There’s another device, which has an experimental mat, which consists of many, many, many, four, eight, 32 coils are over here, but they’re all very small coils. And the very small coils they overlap over here. 

But that’s a different issue. I might get later back to that as well. These are very, very low intensity energy coils. And I have my strong doubts. Although they are spread out, if they are covering the complete range, because inside over here is possibly not so much intensity gets here and I know that this device is a battery powered device. And I said already before, a battery powered device, well, it needs to get this energy somewhere and it might even be a square wave pulse. But again, I’m not into saying which one is better than the other one. I’m just trying to elaborate a little bit on the different waves, and matrices . What we do is different. We have eight coils spread out through the mattress evenly as much as possible. Scientifically it’s impossible to get an even field over here, that’s impossible. Because of the Piezoelectric effect that we talked before. But the electromagnetic field is not only here, but it spread out over here as well. And it spreads out over here as well. So we get more or less even electromagnetic field, whereas all these coils are pulsing at the same time. Whereas in this one, I’m not quite sure if they are pulsing at the same time. Possibly even one after the other. But knowing you probably know better than I do, right?

William Pawluk, M.D., MSc

Yeah, part of content is that if the energy’s flowing from the left to the right, it takes time and as it takes time and a distance, you have a loss of energy. So the presumption would be that the bigger coils at the end are compensating for the time and distance factors.

Ben Phillipson

I dunno what the theory is behind it, but okay. Let’s go back, okay. But it’s not perfect. So what we trying to do when we have a very different configuration of two very large, heavy, thick coils into the 3D ultra system. And I’m getting over here some more explanations a little bit further on. And let me see if its there already because I might have skipped. Yes, I might have skipped. Let me go back to a different screen and I want to share this screen with you. Let me see how I’m going to share this screen with you. My screen sharing is a new share. I’m going to share this one with you. All right. I have here an active demonstration where you can see inside. You see the small yellow coil inside over here?

William Pawluk, M.D., MSc

Yes.

Ben Phillipson

Okay. Now, if you have a electromagnetic field over here, the concentration is closed to the coil itself, but the field light is spread out. But the intensity, when you have a very small coil is not very big. What I can do, I can increase the current going through the coil over here, and I’m going to do that over here. I’m going to increase the current. Now, you’ll see the field has extended, somewhat lower. But the highest concentration of the field is still close to the coil. It doesn’t spread out as much as you would like to. Even if I increased the current of the coil even more, it’s still concentrated, very close to the coil itself. Now I’m going back and I’m going to increase the size of the coil. Look what’s happening over here. The field density is being spread out over the larger area more evenly while the current is still low. But I have a large coil. I’m going to increase the current even more in the coil. You see what happens over here? Also the far fields, further away from the coil itself, the intensity increases. So I have a very nice spread. Now I said before the two large coils of 3D Ultra system doing the matrix, let’s go there. Let’s go to the very large coil, but the main field is still around concentrated the coil, which is not better at all. And now I’m going to increase my current. Look at this. You get a nicely, evenly spread electromagnetic field. And so the bigger the coils, the better the spread, but this requires a high current. And I will get back to that late run, when I’m going to show you another slide.

William Pawluk, M.D., MSc

Let people see where the body would be.

Ben Phillipson

I beg your pardon.

William Pawluk, M.D., MSc

Where would the body be on that coil?

Ben Phillipson

Oh, your two part of your torso will be here and there is another coil over here, the rest of the body. So your whole body is being as I like to call it bust in electromagnetic fields.

William Pawluk, M.D., MSc

So that coil is in a pad that is horizontal and flat.

Ben Phillipson

Yes.

William Pawluk, M.D., MSc

Body lays on top of it.

Ben Phillipson

Correct. You lay on top of it. You can have another patient laying under the bed.

William Pawluk, M.D., MSc

I call that 3D treatment.

Ben Phillipson

All right. Okay. So this is a nice, I think it’s a demonstration which shows more or less or exactly, what’s important and what’s less important. Okay, let’s go to the next slide. Let’s talk a little bit about transcranial magnetic stimulation. TMS as it’s called. TMS is something different. We overlap and maybe if you allow me to misuse a little bit, the word of PEMF for brain treatment. Yes or no? I don’t know. But what I do know is that TMS treatment works differently. TMS, Transcranial magnetic stimulation is using a coil, which generates up to a tesla, 10,000 gauss of electromagnetic fields around the coin being held over the sculp of the patient, of the person being treated, inducing so-called Eddy currents, electromagnetic currents, electric currents, sorry, inside the brain of the patient. And why is this important? Because this is an important treatment for depression. That’s the main applications. Although they’re also looking in Alzheimer’s in small. Yeah, right.

William Pawluk, M.D., MSc

Basically any neurologic process.

Ben Phillipson

Absolutely, yes. And by using a code like this with a very high intensity, you can penetrate inside the brain and reach the dorsolateral prefrontal cortex, which is the part we want to treat for depression. It’s at the front side of the brain, but in order to locate the area, you have to do a couple of tricks with is being done with, true RTMS, Repetitive transcranial magnetic stimulation therapy applications, which like brainwave or neurosis, or there are specialized companies who manufacture this kinds of devices. But let’s look now, why do I point out the size of the course? They use handheld cores, for instance, four inch coil, 10 centimeters, or a six inch coil and you need two tesla to penetrate three centimeters little bit over one inch inside the brain of a patient, if you use a six inch coil. If you use a four inch coil, yes, you can get away with one tesla to penetrate deep inside the brain. And why do I need to get deep inside the brain of a patient? Because I want to have in the area, in the dorsolateral prefrontal cortex area. Here I want to create electric currents and that requires those kind applications. Now having said this, applications are better done with the so called figure eight coil, that’s not difficult, this name, or a butterfly. Why is this? A butterfly coil behaves differently. 

If I compare a single coil or a butterfly coil, I see a 3D rendering of a single coil, which has a wide field over a larger area, which I can see over here. The red area is where it works the strongest, and it spreads out over here, but I’m interested in this area. So this was the area in the brain. I actually wanted to treat for a depression. So when I use a double figure eight coil, or a butterfly card, I get a different spread, a deeper penetration, between where the two coils, which are actually built in a very special way, meet each other. And here this area, is more even area, more concentrated of course, then you can see over here, it’s more spread out. So this is the applicator of a preferred preference for treating with high intensity, for instance, Parkinson or depression, which is FDA approved to depression. And there are other areas which are being evaluated as well. So that’s why I wanted to point out the applications of butterfly coils as well. Now, how does it work? Because when we go back over here and I want to treat this area, I don’t know to find it exactly. So there are ways to find it. Because in this area of the brain, when I do stimulation, then I can see a visual movement of my fingers or sun, when I stimulate the area in more or less the middle of the brain. 

And then I know with more or less the distance between this area and the area I want to treat, actually. This is called a motor evoked potential, which I’m applying a one pulse and I want to see then that the patient actually moves his arm or his finger as a response, and then I know it’s around five centimeter, a little bit more to the center of the brain, the area I need to tret. How does that happen? ‘Cause this area corresponds with the motor neurons who go through the peripheral nerves, fire the muscle inside the fingers or in the sun. And you can also see, for instance, if you take our current on FLASH device and you use the smaller pad or you fold the larger coil into a butterfly coil and you put it under your arm, you can actually see the movement because it’s very high intensity movement in you’re hand. But I don’t want to promote any specific machine at the moment. So let’s go to the next one. This is okay. This are the false way of how the FDA approved treatment of depressions with the 10 Hertz, intensity of 120 Hertz of the effects of movement of my thumb, when I did the MVP, the motor evoked movement.

William Pawluk, M.D., MSc

Let me back up for one second. I think what you said about stimulating the muscle, you’re stimulating with the FLASH, you’re stimulating the muscle directly through the nerve fibers that control the muscle.

Ben Phillipson

Yes.

William Pawluk, M.D., MSc

In the RTMS situation, they’re stimulating the brain, the cortex that then sends as yous a said, sends the signal down. So this is more indirect. Whereas this is more direct.

Ben Phillipson

Correct, when you put it on your arm, it’s a direct firing of the motor neurons which actually have the effect, the same effect as if you know it has the effect of stimulating simply directly, the muscles inside the forearm. Here, you have a different reason why you want to find the area because we know more or less the distance we need between where we can stimulate, where we can get the MEP motor evoking potential for a movement of the thumb in the patient. And then we know where..

William Pawluk, M.D., MSc

That again is an approximation.

Ben Phillipson

Yes.

William Pawluk, M.D., MSc

That approximation that stimulated the motor cortex, and you say, well that means that, probably, we’re going to produce enough energy in the brain if we move it to the front part of the brain where we’re gonna stimulate the cortex. We know we have enough energy then.

Ben Phillipson

Absolutely, and we increase the energy then. The TMS machine, they set a certain level of obtaining the effect and the movement of the thumb. But then you can increase the intensity, the Teslas, when you are going to treat the depression in a different area, which you cannot do when you are, because I attended training course in TMS and I had my head stimulated and I saw lights flashes, actually.

William Pawluk, M.D., MSc

Okay

Ben Phillipson

Okay when you simulate more to the backside of the brain.

William Pawluk, M.D., MSc

Phosphines.

Ben Phillipson

Yeah, right. It was interesting, but also a little bit scary to tell you the truth.

William Pawluk, M.D., MSc

Let me just interject for one second before you go to the next set of slide. RTMS was designed largely to replace ECT.

Ben Phillipson

Yes.

William Pawluk, M.D., MSc

Electroconvulsive therapy.

Ben Phillipson

Yes.

William Pawluk, M.D., MSc

That’s why they’re so interested in using charge and a specific amount of charge, because you’re trying to replicate what you do with ECT, which is more or less barbaric. It’s electrocuting somebody.

Ben Phillipson

Yes.

William Pawluk, M.D., MSc

This is not electrocution. This is magnetic induction, but that’s the history behind it. But they’ve also shown significantly, in many, many studies now, that stimulation to that motor cortex, even though it’s electrical there, the magnetic field still goes through the rest of the brain. Right? And that means it’s still gonna produce all kinds of other changes downstream from the area, from the main focus of electrical stimulation. That’s another discussion.

Ben Phillipson

Yeah, you put your finger exactly on a very sensitive point when you talk with experts in the field of TMS. Because when you are asked them, how does it work? Why you, should you to use one hertz? Why should you use 5 hertz? Or why even 10 hertz for treatment of depression? Why do you use the left side of the brain and not the right side of the brain? And when this question was put during this course to one of the lecturers over there, who is a world famous expert in TMS, Professor Fitzgerald from Australia. He said, we don’t know. We simply, we don’t know. And exactly what you said is true. He said, maybe if put it the right side of our brain it will have the same effect. But we simply don’t know.

William Pawluk, M.D., MSc

Well, I’ll tell you why.

Ben Phillipson

Yeah.

William Pawluk, M.D., MSc

It’s a, there’s a law in Islam and a fable.

Ben Phillipson

Okay.

William Pawluk, M.D., MSc

All right. The fable is somebody’s walking down the street and looking at somebody who’s looking under the light for something.

Ben Phillipson

Okay.

William Pawluk, M.D., MSc

The guy who comes up to the person looking under the light says, why are you looking here? Why are you looking here? He said, well, I lost my key. Well, where’d you lose your key? Well over there. But why are you looking here? Because this is where the light is.

Ben Phillipson

Yes.

William Pawluk, M.D., MSc

Right? So what we’re doing is, we have a theory and everybody based on that theory and then the science follows that. Everybody based on that theory says, well then that’s all there is, which is clearly not true.

Ben Phillipson

You’re a hundred percent right, absolutely. And it’s a very interesting application of pulsed electromagnetic fields for brain treatment. It’s only a pity that nobody explains it or nobody can explain how it exactly works, but it works. And that’s an interesting thing. So that’s why it also takes a long time to get a DA approval for TMS, because you have to show it works, but you cannot explain it to them. And that sometimes is a problem.

William Pawluk, M.D., MSc

There are no reasons why aspirin works either.

Ben Phillipson

Why aspirin works?

William Pawluk, M.D., MSc

Yes, we have some theories about why aspirin works.

Ben Phillipson

Oh, okay.

William Pawluk, M.D., MSc

Right? But we don’t know for sure why aspirin works or how it works. But those theories are what causes it to be approved. We know it has more effects than just the one theory.

Ben Phillipson

The 50% placebo effect.

William Pawluk, M.D., MSc

Well that too. Sorry to interrupt.

Ben Phillipson

No, no problem. Okay, I just wanted to point out there are also small battery devices which use very small currents, which have a diameter of two inch, five centimeter. And the electromagnetic field is very, very much inside this area and not so much outside the area for reasons I already elaborated before. But there is one problem. If you have two coils and you use them too close together and you don’t know in what direction the electromagnetic field goes, you get opposing fields and you get a repulsion of the fields. So sometimes that’s not explained to people and it’s not the manuals or whatever. And you don’t even know which side of the coils is the right side, so you need to be very, very careful. Some call it Helmholtz coils, but that’s wrong. These are the helmholtz coils. Helmholtz coils, they create an even field inside two coils, here are two coils, horizontal. And this is very nice, even electromagnetic fields, correct? 

Those are helmholtz coils. But there are certain laws and nothing mentions. Helmholtz was a German scientist and these coils are called after him, which means that half of the diameter, half of the diameter must be exactly between those two coils in order to create this field. And if they are not exactly at half the diameter, if I have a two inch coil and this distance is not exactly one coil, for instance, it’s two inch. When you place it on a shoulder, or three inch even, or on a knee, you don’t get the nice even fields. And if bad luck, this might even happen, you get repulsion of fields. So that’s why I wanted to point out that using two currents, one opposite the other, is not always a wise thing to do. Okay, this is my last slide, but because it shows what we are doing. This is the home therapy system, which you mentioned before. It’s 7000 micro teslas, seventy thousand on the whole bottom pad and 20,000 micro teslas, two hundred thousand on the smaller pad it’s a universal system. It has very steep rise times and with DBT and it’s high intensity. It’s the basic high intensity machine we manufacture which you sell as department machines and it’s also called the system. 

Then we have the next in time in line which you also like to recommend very often which is the XPSE or the grow a device, which has higher power also more the possibilities, even faster rise times different energy possibilities than we have the similar system like this, the PC system which you can hook up to a PC create your own, your own programs, your own protocols. We including your own Here, here, this new neural problems are now available. Your programs are available inside the PC software. And then we have these three have eight calls inside them. As I showed you on the, on the Mattress pictures. And this is the 3D system, which has the two very large coils inside them. And they create 50,000 micro teslas on its large body Mattress. And on the very small butterfly called a 16,000 This is top of the line system. And those are true oscillating energy medicine devices. 

Then we have the high intensity devices which is similar to a spark systems only without the spark with the solid state technology which is the flesh multisystem which creates up to 4,000 Gauss, very small. It’s very small pulses, not energy medicine but high intensity impulse device. And then the premium flash device which can create over 7,000 Gauss. And with this one, for instance you can see if you fold the loop into a coil or if it loose the smaller one you can see the reaction when you stimulate under your arm and you can move your hands, see movement, you can hang your gear ring or the loop around your neck and you see the muscle movements in your should, but that’s these are the two lines, the manufacture, So there has a wide choice of different devices you can offer to your patients. And this, this, I don’t throw your money away in the money, but what’s important and that’s what we actually talked about in the beginning. Penetration death, the high intensity is required for PEMF devices depends on a called diameter, which I explained in that short video in the movement of the electromagnetic fields, picture before where I increased and decreased the current inside the coil and changed the sizes of the coil itself. 

Penetration that depends on the DB/dt or the speed of induction of the electromagnetic fields in the shortest possible time which is expressed in Tesla per second. It depends on the field intensity which is magnetic flux intensity and the field density how dense the magnetic flux inside the coil and the more, the larger the coil the more flux density you can contain provided that you use coils with the diameter of in each individual wire inside the coil is sufficient to carry the currents. Oh, I wrote twice the same, sorry. And the purity of the coil, the purity of the copper inside the coil itself is very, very important. And the amount of turns inside the coil, because each turn gives a certain amount of energy out of intensity. So the more turns you have in a coil, the more filled intensity you get. But the more turns you have the higher, the resistance of the coil, the higher the resistance of the coil, it becomes more difficult to have sufficient current running through the coil itself and that’s why you need also sufficient electrical current. 

So you can’t just say, okay, I name it, take a thin wire. I make as many, many terms in the coil as I want to. Because then the, the coil cannot carry sufficient current in order to, to generate sufficient magnetic flux, magnetic intensity. So it’s, it’s not just one thing. It’s a combination of many different Electro Technical and Electronics in order to be able to generate sufficient intensity, to penetrate completely the body and to obtain the right penetration desk inside the tissue, inside the cells to obtain opening of the cells to penetrate the bones for treatment of Osteoporosis to treat Osteoarthritis. But now…

William Pawluk, M.D., MSc

That was good. Very good. Thank you. It gives us your history, a, a good explanation about those the factors that are important in designing a system. And that’s one of the key things that I want to make sure that people understand. Every magnetic system has value. Doesn’t matter.. Doesn’t matter who makes it, doesn’t matter what it is. Even these very, very low intensity systems have some value. Yes, but it depends on one’s goals and objectives.

Ben Phillipson

Right. 

William Pawluk, M.D., MSc

Right? As you said, if you’re trying to treat deep into the brain that you’re probably gonna have to have a lot more intensity to deliver enough charge into the tissues, to do the job that you’re looking to do. Same thing applies to the heart or to the kidneys or deeper into, into the body. So those are important factors. And that what, what I’m trying to do basically is get people understand, yes. Make you, you’re gonna make a choice about a system but you have to understand the system to know what it’s going to give you. And unfortunately, what I find too often is that people make their choice based on cost. Right? I can only afford $700 for a system, right? Well, you’re gonna get $700 worth the value of your system. If you’re wanting a $700 system to, to do the work of a $10,000 system, you’re not gonna get it.

Ben Phillipson

But the problem is bill that often when they buy a cheap system, they’re disappointed in PEMF and they that’s wrong. And that’s why your advice is so important. So to make them understand that if they buy a $700 system, right, they get something but they should not be disappointed if they don’t get the effect they expect from a $700 system

William Pawluk, M.D., MSc

You can’t, you can’t color all PEMF by a disappointment with one particular PEMF.

Ben Phillipson

Right

William Pawluk, M.D., MSc

You could even buy two or three different very high cost systems and still be disappointed because often it still depends on how you use it. So there are many people who are advertising eight minute treatments with your very low intensity system. So how much change in the body’s gonna happen with treating for eight minutes, with very low intensity

Ben Phillipson

Especially when you use the science signal only and not have a very steep UDDT.

William Pawluk, M.D., MSc

And what are the things that I do in my book? And I think, you and I, have had some of these discussions before is I review the science not just the physics of it because that’s less important to most people. What they wanna know is what will it do? How will it help me and how do I use it? So the key thing is to understand there is science and the science is all over the place. If you look at … and, and in the book I have 50 different health conditions and I review the science that’s available for those health conditions. There is no one system that’s used across all of these health conditions. So you can’t compare often from study to study to disease, to disease, condition, to condition. That’s why, again, you have to, have that understanding and that’s why we’re doing this video is for you to teach people as well about some of the engineering aspects of the theoretical aspects of a system that you still have to know how to apply it and to use it, to use it properly.

Ben Phillipson

The problem is that are many, many studies out there. We choose either a specific frequency or a specific intensity and the people or the yeah, your colleagues even my least say so. who don’t understand what’s involved? What is the speed of induction? What is the DP cycle? What is the DPDT? What is the intensity? They publish peer reviewed studies. Whereas the data is incomplete because they use very limited Electromagnetic field intensities. And that’s very, I find it disturbing because you don’t know what conclusions, lay people are going to, to get from these kind studies. And I think that’s a pity. So it’s very important, when you look at the study to know exactly the intensity of your magnetic therapy being used, the size of the coils and the penetration that and if it’s only fixed one frequency or if they are using several different frequencies which being applied one after the other because to avoid adaptation of the body you mentioned the system, which said, okay eight minutes used. And then your body gets adapted to the specific frequency. You need to change the frequency during the treatment. Don’t do that. Don’t get the optimum results. And I don’t know what your opinion is but I seen tables, many tables of, of, of of so-called scientific studies should say liver this frequency, heart this frequency. You know I have a problem with those studies because who knows. Wow How can you prove this?

William Pawluk, M.D., MSc

Well, what happens is, unfortunately those studies didn’t compare all the parameters together.

Ben Phillipson

Right. 

William Pawluk, M.D., MSc

Right? So they didn’t have one system that varied the intensity another system that varied the frequency, another system, all basically targeting the same objective.

Ben Phillipson

Yes.

William Pawluk, M.D., MSc

So the number of variables that could have to be considered in designing a system when you multiply all those variables out, you’re talking about millions of combinations of possibilities and that’s never gonna happen in research.

Ben Phillipson

Yeah.

William Pawluk, M.D., MSc

So we rare, we rarely know how one compares to another for the same problem or the same need, right? So we get close. What you do is you get a system, you use it you find out what, what it’s gonna do for you, right? And then you have to adjust. So I say that in an ideal world if you had all the money that you could ever want or even money that you don’t need, you probably would end up only four or five different systems, right? To, to get, to get cover the waterfront of the possibilities that could be needed.

Ben Phillipson

Well, there, there are people out there who claim they have spent hundreds of thousands of dollars on the different systems and then sell one system, and that should be then the only ultra system which is applicable for all different possibilities.

William Pawluk, M.D., MSc

Doesn’t, doesn’t exist.

Ben Phillipson

No. 

William Pawluk, M.D., MSc

And again, if you read the book can you read the 50 health conditions that I review with the science, the research behind them with all the flaws of the research and all the fact and the fact that most studies, as you said don’t give you an adequate description of the signal anyway.

Ben Phillipson

Right.

William Pawluk, M.D., MSc

So you’re still left with some guesswork in terms of what you should … Actually, there’s one technical question I have for you. We focus on the coil and that we focus on the, the basically the configuration of the field in the center of the coil. But the coil and you can disagree if I, with me, if I got this wrong. But at the coil itself is where the magnetic field is the strongest

Ben Phillipson

According to my measurements, you’re a hundred percent right.

William Pawluk, M.D., MSc

Right. Like you showed that volcano slide, right? At the coil is where the field is the strongest. So, right, right at, right at the coil itself. Now when you move away, but if you’re laying on a coil with your body on it, as big area you don’t have one big coil, usually have as you said, multiple coils. So I will often direct people to put a shoulder, right over the ring of the coil. If you wanna get higher intensity for that particular application.

Ben Phillipson

Yes.

William Pawluk, M.D., MSc

Where you’re treating deeper into the body and you wanna spread the field out than you lay on top of a circular coil. So measurements at the edges of the coil and measurements above the surface of the coil are, are very different. Ben, thank you so much. It was very, very educational. I really appreciate your slides. More education of, of, of people getting good science and not just selling a particular device.

Ben Phillipson

Well, do I utmost and I’m happy that you are able to educate people because I think it’s really necessary. And there are so many people out there in the field who are simply salespeople and have no clue what they are selling. Or they claim, they know because they are whatever educated and they lack a lot of knowledge and they are biased towards the specific device they sell and that’s the advantage you have. You have a lot of different devices, You have chosen to pick to only only those devices, you think are a, most useful and I completely support your efforts. And I think you found the right way, educating people. And I highly appreciate the work.

William Pawluk, M.D., MSc

Well, thank you. And we appreciate your equipment as well. We know, we know that it works and I’m glad that you added broadened your line to include the higher intensity systems. There’s still debate about whether high intensity heals because you said the frequencies are energy medicine. I’m gonna disagree with you there even the high intensity energy medicine. You know, you have this device that you’re treating the brain motor cortex and it’s gonna deliver energy, create charge production in the tissue, the electrical induced electrical fields. But is that the only action of the magnetic field? It isn’t. There’s a lot more going on. It’s not that simple.

Ben Phillipson

We have still a lot to learn.

William Pawluk, M.D., MSc

And most of it would be from applying it, using it and understanding it.