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William Pawluk, MD, MSc, author of “Supercharge Your Health with PEMF therapy”, was recently a holistic doctor near Baltimore, MD. Previous academic positions at Johns Hopkins and University of Maryland. Training: acupuncture, homeopathy, hypnosis, energy medicine, nutrition and bodywork. Considered the foremost authority on the practical use of Pulsed Electromagnetic... Read More
Ben Greenfield is a health consultant, speaker, an advisor, investor and a board member of multiple corporations in the health and fitness industry, and is also the founder of KION. He’s a New York Times bestselling author of 17 books and the host of the top ranked fitness and health... Read More
- Discussed rebranding from BenGreenfieldfitness to BenGreenfieldLife because of a shift in emphasis to include psychology and spirituality, among areas of emphasis. Relayed how he frequently uses the FlexPulse and BioBalance for sleep, relaxation, spot treatment of various aches and pains and general relaxation. Introduced the more affordable, non-maintenance, high intensity magnetic sandwich device, the Parmeds UltraFlash, which is much more affordable than another high intensity PEMF systems that he uses and which is more commonly in use in the professional setting. Mentioned how valuable he finds the book “Supercharge Your Health with PEMF Therapy” very practical.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
Hello, Dr. Pawluk here. Today, we have the esteemed esteemed and aghast. Hopefully, there’s no gust around there for you. Ben Greenfield. I’m sure a lot of you know about Ben Greenfield and all the work that he’s doing, and he’s rebranding himself from Ben Greenfield Fitness to Ben Greenfield Life. How’s that rebranding going?
Ben Greenfield
Well, I’ve been in the fitness sector for so long, for like 20 years, that I’ve just kinda decided there’s a lot more avenues of life I want to explore, a lot more avenues of life hacking and life optimization that I wanna explore to go beyond fitness, like parenting and family and legacy and faith. A lot of stuff’s related to health. I still like longevity and anti-aging and a lotta the electrical medicine and the type of things that you do. And so I’m continuing to focus everything down through the lens of health and fitness, but I just decided that I didn’t want to paint myself into that fitness corner anymore and open myself up to be able to help people in a lotta other ways too, hopefully, so yeah, it’s going well.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
All of that is very, very important. What made you decide to go into that, I mean what pushed you in that direction?
Ben Greenfield
Well, I’m assuming you don’t mean what pushed me in the fitness direction. What pushed me away from the fitness direction?
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
Into the lifestyle direction.
Ben Greenfield
Yeah, new chapter. I have no regrets about being so focused on fitness for so long, yet I kinda got to the point where I feel as though I’ve explored a lotta avenues related to fitness, and frankly the way I’ve always operated as a content producer or whatever you wanna call me is that I’ve simply pursued the passions and interests and desires that I have, whether it’s spear fishing and bow hunting or bench pressing and bicycling, and then just traded podcasts and books and articles to help other people discover the same type of things that I’m curious about and interested in. And so as I’ve become more interested in, again, things like my spiritual growth and parenting and family and legacy, and even things like economics, politics, and cryptocurrency, all these different things that may be just as a result of me getting older and entering into this new chapter of my life that I’m very interested in. I’ve always operated from that mentality that there’s gotta be a few other people kinda interested in the same things I’m up to, and I might as well just help ’em in the very best way I can, discover those type of things or how to optimize their life in the same ways that I’m discovering. So I’m constantly testing new tools and technologies and toys and reading new books and articles, and just putting that information out for people. And increasingly, since I kinda quit competing professionally in athletics and endurance racing and things like two years ago, I’ve just explored a lotta avenues that go beyond fitness, and so that’s what kinda pushed me in that direction.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
So I think I completely can relate to what you’re saying. The end of our journey will be to return to where we started and know it for the first time. And where do we start our journey? On the other side.
Ben Greenfield
What do you mean by that? Say that again. The end of our journey?
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
The end of our journey will be to return to the place we started and know it for the first time.
Ben Greenfield
Okay.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
We do that in cycle constantly. We start a journey, like say, for example, you start a journey with swimming. You do it, you do it, you do it, and finally you return to where you started and say, “Now I know.”
Ben Greenfield
Okay, yeah.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
In terms of life, our life journey, we return to where we started and know the place for the first time.
Ben Greenfield
Yeah, that’s cool. That’s a cool way to think about things, I like that.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
All right, so then we’re all headed that way. We don’t have any choice. It’s gonna happen anyway. So if ya gotta do it, you can do it peacefully. You can do it in sync. You can do it with happiness. Or you can do it the hard way.
Ben Greenfield
Yeah, reminds me I’ve been reading the book Ecclesiastes in the Bible, apparently it was written by King Solomon, the wisest and richest man in all the world at the time, that he wrote it and he’s searching for the meaning for life. It’s almost like reading “Man’s Search for Meaning.” And in the end, he basically says, well, the very best thing you can do with your life is to eat and drink and savor and enjoy all aspects of God’s creation while you’re loving God and loving other people. And so that’s kinda my mantra when I wake up in the morning. Also, in Ecclesiastes, it says, “Whatever it is that you do, do it with all your might. Whatever you put your hands to, do it with all your might.” So I just wake up in the morning and do the very best job I can with whatever God’s put on my plate, work hard, chop wood, carry water, and then at the end of the day have a giant party with my family and eat good food and enjoy all the blessings that manifest from hard work, and wake up the next morning and do the same thing, and it’s a good way to live life, I think.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
Some people call that self-actualization.
Ben Greenfield
Yeah, I think you can probably categorize it as self-actualization.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
And Abraham Maslow, interestingly enough, who developed that self-actualization idea, and he developed that pyramid.
Ben Greenfield
Yeah, yeah.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
And the reason he developed the self-actualization pyramid is because he was researching peak experiences.
Ben Greenfield
Okay.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
So when you self-actualize, when you basically achieve what you wanted to, your goals in your life, that you get to a point of self-actualization. And self-actualization is really actually a spiritual place.
Ben Greenfield
I like that.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
You have less need for the basic things in life, and fighting for those basic things, so now we’re fighting for enlightenment in a sense.
Ben Greenfield
Yeah, it’s kinda like you fulfill the base hierarchy of survival needs, and at that point, you start to go on a quest for greater meaning.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
And that’s where we begin to go back to the beginning. We return to where we started and know the place for the first time.
Ben Greenfield
Mm, yeah I like that.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
That’s from “The Little Gidding” from Robert Frost.
Ben Greenfield
“The Little Gidding”, that’s a book or is it a poem?
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
Nope, that’s a poem by Robert Frost called “The Little Gidding.”
Ben Greenfield
I don’t know if I’ve ever read poem. I’ve heard of it before though.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
But that’s a famous phrase from that poem. I used that phrase on my masters degree thesis.
Ben Greenfield
Oh on your masters, what was your masters degree in?
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
It was a master of science in basically design measurement and evaluation, or I call it clinical epidemiology.
Ben Greenfield
Okay, huh.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
I got that after I went to medical school, in residence.
Ben Greenfield
Got it, wow, fascinating.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
So self-actualization. Return to place where we started. So let’s return to the place where we started from, which is how I got in touch with you. And since this is the PEMFs Summit, let’s talk a little bit about PEMFs. Let’s talk about your experience with PEMFs. How you use it, what kinds of experiences have you had? What kinds of experiences have other people had that you’ve recommended it to them?
Ben Greenfield
Yeah, gosh, there’s a lotta different places we can go with that question, but my first experience with it was for sleep, the use of it for the delta brain wave activation. And it was either the FlexPulse, which of course is one of your devices, or something very similar to it, a small portable device. And I remember I was having sleep issues. This must’ve been, oh, a good seven or eight years ago, I think. And I’ve placed it on or near the occipital bone on the back of my head, and then settled down for a little bit of sleep and it just kinda lulled me into this nice peaceful brainwave state. I thought, oh, that’s cool, it’s actually working. I was a little bit freaked out because I thought, well, I’m not supposed to put my cell phone next to my head should I be sleeping with this thing right next to my skull? And so upon doing some research and realizing that the pulse electromagnetic field signal is a lot different than some of these non-native EMFs and radio frequencies we get from cell phones and things like that, and they aren’t really damaging from a biological standpoint. I began to use it in other ways too. So I had the injury and I thought oh let’s look up what I could do for an injury, and I remember finding out, I think it was about a 10 to 100 hertz frequency seemed to be something indicated for managing inflammation and pain. I think it was a knee issue that I initially used it on, so I wrapped it around the knee and started using a little bit of portable PEMF on a couple of different joints, and this was back when I was racing Ironman Triathlon and put my joints to hell and back, and it seemed to work well for that also.
And then I kinda, as I started to explore the wide and wonderful world of PEMFs, I kinda got my hands on some of these larger treatment devices like the large coils and the pads, and even the mats that you can lay on and started experimenting with those. And the first thing I did was I would lay on these mats like when I get a massage and find that my body just felt fantastic after a massage when I’d be laying on a PEMFs mat while I was getting body work done. It was almost as though it enhanced the effects or enhanced the lymphatic drainage, or caused a little bit of a better opening and closing of cell membranes for clearance of metabolic byproducts, and probably a combination of all of those, but I just feel fantastic. And so then I thought, well, why couldn’t I just sleep on something like this? And so then I came across your body balance mat and I put that under my top sheet and started sleeping on it, sometimes in recovery mode I would find after a big day of training, and then a lotta times in sleep mode also. And I’d even wake up and put it onto the setting that kinda pulses and wakes you up and energizes your body for the day, and I would just lay there for a few minutes in bed while I ran that, and that seemed to be great. That’s still something I sleep on every night and it seems to make a dramatic improvement in my recovery and even in my sleep scores, and so been using it for that. And then there’s a few other interesting ways that I’ve found PEMF to work. Any time I get a tight back, I like the pad that you can lay on, or the coils in a pinch, and I’ll put that over the pelvic bone, lay it across my hips, kinda move it all over the hips and it just seems to relax all the tissues that are in a little bit of a cramped or a spastic position. And so low back issues, I found it can get rid of those tight hip flexors.
I’d lay on the PEMF and put it across the hip flexors. Shortened and tight hip flexors are responsible for a lotta the low back pain people develop. Sometimes they work on the wrong side. They focus on the back side, the erector spinalis, and they should be working on the hip flexors and so I found it could loosen and relax the hip flexors, especially after a long day of flying or a long day of sitting, and so I started using it for that. And it’s kinda funny ’cause I’ve almost developed, a lotta times I do this in the morning when I wake up, kinda like yoga with PEMF where I’ll just be up doing different stretches and as I’m in a stretch position, I’ll apply a PEMF coil or a pad to a different area and I find that it just seems to wake up the body and make everything super limber. Not a day goes by now that I don’t use PEMF in some way, whether to sleep or to recover, to relax a muscle. So yeah, it’s just kinda been a gradual progression. I’ve been picking up little things along the way and experimenting with it. And the other interesting thing, and I don’t recall if I learned this from you, Dr. Pawluk, or somebody else, but it’s this idea that the placement of the PEMF, especially in the long bones, the femur, where the bone marrow is, may actually result in a little bit of stem cell mobilization. And so I think that that might also be one of the things that causes the advanced recovery that I seem to feel, especially when I’ve got it close to my legs or when I’m sleeping on that mat. So yeah, there’s a lotta ways I’ve been using it.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
Now that you mentioned the stem cells, yes, I think may have mentioned that to you that there was a study done actually through NASA. And then subsequently, I had an experiment where a woman was going to be getting stem cell therapy and they did a stem cell harvest on her, and normally, they may get about 200,000 stem cells. She ended up with like four million stem cells after treating her femur with a small portable thing just like you have.
Ben Greenfield
That’s amazing. Yeah just apply it on the long bone of the femur.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
Exactly. She did it for several hours.
Ben Greenfield
Which is kinda funny. Well, I was gonna say.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
She did it for several hours and that’s why she got a big boost.
Ben Greenfield
Yeah, possibly a little bit of a rabbit hole but it’s top of mind ’cause I’m having it for dinner tonight. I actually eat those long femur bones from cattle. I’ll get the femurs with the bone marrow in ’em and I roast ’em on the grill for about, oh, 20 to 30 minutes at 450 degrees, and they call it the butter of the gods. You just eat this marrow and it’s chock full of nutrients and stem cell precursors and minerals. And I eat that and I think, gosh, my body has the same stuff in it. It has the same marrow running through my bones. How can I support that? How could I strengthen that? How can I make that more healthy? I think the PEMF helps a little bit with that.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
It does, and the stronger magnetic fields actually do a better job, again, because you can wear the machine on your leg or you can wear it on your leg all night, that little portable thing. Even though you lay on a whole body pad, you can still use the small portable in addition on the bones because the portable is stronger than the whole-body pad. The whole-body pad’s only about 10 douse. Whereas that small machine is about 200.
Ben Greenfield
‘Cause it’s a smaller surface area. So it’s more concentrated, right?
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
It’s more concentrated, but there are reflex changes in the body. So when you treat a local area, you’re not only treating that local area, you’re getting a secondary benefit through the whole body. So those stem cells that are stimulated in your bone marrow release into the bloodstream and they go anywhere they wanna go in the body. So if you’re doing regular stimulation to any of the bones in the body, you’re gonna increase the number of stem cells and even fat cells or prosenchyma cells, basically they’re cells in the tissues that are there naturally to have to restore and rebalance the tissue, those prosenchyma cells, or even those fat cells convert. So they leave the bone, they leave the fatty tissues, they go back into the bloodstream. Then they circulate through the rest of the body and they go to wherever they’re needed. And they proliferate where they go and they help to do the healing work of those tissues.
Ben Greenfield
Now, correct me if I’m wrong when we’re on the topic of stem cells here, there are certain folks, recent guy, Dr. Christian, I forget his last name. He has been researching a lot of different stem cell precursors or things that increase stem cell health or stem cell mobilization in the body. Things like the blue, green algae from Klamath Lake or cryo ginseng or there’s a special, it’s almost like a black nigella seed compound and a few other ingredients that seem to really support stem cells. Now, my theory is that if PEMF is causing basically better cell membrane health, or possibly even an opening and closing some of the channels in cell membrane, that when you consume, some type of super food or supplement or something like that, that the use of PEMF afterwards may assist with its delivery into cells. And that’s just a theory, but I’m curious, have you ever come across anything like that?
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
Well, stem cells are relatively large. So the things that cross over the cell membrane are not whole cells. They may be very tiny little pieces of cells because those membrane channels are extraordinarily small. They’re at what we call the angstrom level.
Ben Greenfield
Well I’m not talking about, yeah I was referring to like nutrients entering cells or metabolic byproducts exiting cells, that type of thing.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
You’re actually, you’re correct there. So once you’ve activated all these things, including second messengers and the chemicals that are released by these tissues, they do penetrate the cells and then provide nutrient support to the cells. So you’re not only providing nutrient support to the tissues around the cells, but also within the actual cell itself. And opening those membrane channels becomes really, really important. So you can’t build a garden, you can’t build a house without bricks and mortar. So the nutrients that you’re describing is the bricks and the mortar. They’re the supplies that you need to build the house. So you’re supplying the bricks and the mortar, you’re supplying the equipment and the supplies that you need to make the home, but then you have to drive those components. You have to work with them. You have to have the workers work with them to make them usable. So the magnetic field therapy makes all that more usable, basically what it does is it activates all of those processes, it just wakes everything up and makes it more fluid and more mobile and therefore more active.
Ben Greenfield
Yeah, yeah.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
It would make almost everything else that you do better.
Ben Greenfield
Yeah that’s what it seems. And I’ll a lot of times combine PEMF, the Nicola Tesla is probably the most well known for his concepts in energy medicine. And this idea that we’re an electrical being and operate very much like batteries. And there are certain things that will allow for either a better depolarization on the cell membrane or a better negative charge on the inside of the cell, or better throughput of hydrogen ions in the mitochondria, increased activity of the electron transport chain. And, we’re talking about things like photo biomodulation, infrared light and light photons. We’re talking about really, really good clean water intake with a lot of minerals in it, like a full spectrum of minerals, ’cause those help to carry a charge, physical movement, even the use of things like heat and cold to increase that flow through the body and earthing grounding, being outside barefoot or even using PEMF or something like that. But I like to combine a lot of these things, I’ll a lot of times do a PEMF session, but then at the same time be running infrared light, right after I’ve had water chock full of minerals, and then I’ll go do a sauna session, jump with the cold pool. I just think it fits perfectly into this concept of operating your health protocol with the outlook that your body really does operate kinda like a battery.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
So, the way I conceptualize magnetic field therapy or basically life, if you wanna call it that and the body. So our tissues of the body are made of chemicals, so we think of it as tissue, but it’s actually chemical based it’s biochemistry. But the biochemistry, the molecules that make our tissue are governed by physics, the laws of physics govern all that. We don’t see physics, we don’t feel it. We don’t touch it. It’s there, it’s operating in the background constantly, but what controls physics, quantum physics. So once we get to quantum physics, PEMF therapy basically is physics. We’re operating at the physics level and the quantum physics level. Once we get beyond physics or quantum physics, even we get, basically we go to the undefinable, let’s say that spirit. So magnetic field therapy fits above the hierarchy of chemistry and tissue. So it makes everything below that level, the physics level below that level work better, faster in general.
Ben Greenfield
You know, that’s interesting. It reminds me of a book I recently read called “Spirit Tech” that kind of gets into the, it gets into a concept called neurotheology and also this aspect of stacking certain, what might be considered like biohacking modalities or technology with spiritual activities, such as prayer, meditation, devotions, worship, singing, etcetera. And at first it sounds kind of gimmicky. I mean people grabbing their portable PEMF device before they head off to church in the morning or turning on a red light and bathing in red light for a morning meditation session. But it really makes sense, especially the way that you’ve described it, because I think a lot of these things actually are operating on levels that go even beyond quantum physics. And even if they’re not, they’re shifting you into this state where you’re almost more receptive to things like hearing the voice of God or entering into a deep state of prayer or getting into more of like an alpha or a theta brainwave state for meditation. And so, yeah, I like that you brought that up ’cause it seems that there’s, ’cause you really step back. I mean maybe back to, we were talking about earlier about where you end bringing back round to where you began, this idea that we’re talking about as far as like health enhancement, fitness enhancement, better recovery, better sleep et cetera. In the long run we’re we’re doing this so that we can be better equipped to love other people and to be able to really live out our lives with maximum impact using the unique skill set that we’ve been designed and given and blessed with for our life on this planet. And so when you step back and look at it’s like, so the most important reason for implementing any of these technologies would be so that you can strengthen your spirit, the one eternal part of you that goes on to the live for all of existence. I know that gets kind of woo woo and big picture and ethereal, but it really is interesting to think about the fact that a lot of this goes beyond just pure internal biological health and delves into the spiritual realms, which is pretty powerful to think about really.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
Totally I mean, there’s a large literature on people’s effects beyond the physical. For example, I actually measure the aura fields of people using a little, just like a water twitch thing. A water sensor.
Ben Greenfield
So is that different than like a gas discharge, visualization camera?
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
Very different. That’s very different. With a GD what you’re doing is you’re bombarding the body with energy with high voltages, and then you’re measuring the body’s response to those high voltages. But the body itself produces voltage. Now, a guy named Elmer Green, who talked a lot about meditation. He actually took healers. And I wrote an ebook on this about how magnetic field therapy is a form of energy medicine and healers basically what they’re doing is they’re producing a huge discharge. He had people at these what he called a voltage wall, putting their hands on a copper wall. Then they go into their meditative state. They go into their healing state and they would just discharge upwards of a million volts out of their hands. It’s not something you can do regularly or routinely, but at some points you can and what they did is they actually measured their EEGs. At that moment. They could see the EEG growing and developing and developing and all of a sudden it reached a peak and bingo, they discharged a million volts. So you can take the healers–
Ben Greenfield
Well, you know–
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
Basically go into this–
Ben Greenfield
I believe you.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
Healing state. And in that healing state they build up charge on their bodies and that charge that’s what Qigong masters do you release that charge and it’s an electromagnetic.
Ben Greenfield
Yeah I have a little bit of experience with Qigong, I’ve even taken a little Qigong course with my sons. And one of the practices that you do is you try to change the flavor of brand, your kombucha or coffee using your hands and the energy that you’re pushing into the field of that object. And what I’ve experienced is that, although I do admit that there’s of course, a little bit of a placebo effect because it’s difficult to do it double blinded. You know, I personally notice a difference in taste and when I’ll give my friends, like a coffee was the last time I tried this and give them the cup of coffee that I haven’t blasted with energy with my hands for a couple of minutes. And then the coffee that I had, the coffee that I had, they report tastes smooth, sweet, less bitter. And it’s very interesting because I actually did a podcast on my site once with a guy who’s got a company it’s called Alela Quantum Tech, and they actually create these devices that have been charged up by these healers that you’re talking about. And I have one on my kitchen counter back up in the kitchen. You can put food in it, you can put supplements in it. You can put a joint in there. You can put your phone in there. And basically it just charges up whatever you put in it with this same positive energy created by these healers. It’s a very interesting concept. And a lot of this stuff, as you already alluded to is invisible and difficult to prove. And hence is scoffed at by a lot of modern scientists yet there’s something there. I mean, absolutely beyond a doubt.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
Well, and that’s quantum, so you really need to do these measurements in a quantum level. So as I mentioned, when we did PEMF therapy with healers and we measured their field using the same thing that again douses use. So it’s basically, it’s a dousing rod that’s not used for water, but you could actually douse the field, the body field, or biofield of a healer. And when you do, after you do magnetic field therapy, their biofield enlarges dramatically.
Ben Greenfield
Oh, wow. Wow, so this is good information for me to know. ‘Cause all I’m thinking is a lot of times I’ll do my morning meditation on a meditation cushion. And like I mentioned, I’ll sometimes use the infrared light, but I don’t know that I’ve ever really sat on one of the larger PEMF pads or something like that for a real good meditation session or prayer session. That’d interesting to try that out. That’s interesting.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
And a whole body, especially. So what we know is that again, the body has something called magnetite. I don’t think you’ve heard of magnetite.
Ben Greenfield
Oh, I know about magnetite as the stuff that you’ll find in the snout of sharks or the nose of birds that help them to know the proper direction to travel.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
Okay how many bits of magnetite are there in a human brain?
Ben Greenfield
You know, I actually don’t know. I know we’ve got magnetite that we probably don’t use to our full capabilities since we live in an era of GPS and satellite phones, but you tell me.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
It’s probably in the order of billions per square centimeter.
Ben Greenfield
Wow.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
Magnetite crystals in our brains, humans orient in space as well. We lost that ability because of everything around us, all the stimulation around us, but humans can already, according to the magnetic fields of the earth, as well as animals can, we certainly know that about birds. As you said, their beaks, so they’ve done experiments. They’ve done experiments with people. They’ve spun people around in a chair, blinded them, took away their hearing. So they made them deaf if you will, put earbuds in, they spun ’em around and asked them to tell what direction they were facing. So they did a few test experiments and then they did some real experiments and they found probably that most people could after a little bit of training, most people could actually determine the proper direction about 90% of the time.
Ben Greenfield
Well, that’s interesting because there’s certain well Aboriginal populations specifically who communicate in terms of north, south, east, and west, instead of like left right up and down for example. And they do so with surprising accuracy, without the use of GPS or anything like that. And as you alluded to, and as I mentioned, I think we’ve lost the ability to fully use the magnetite that’s naturally built into our bodies, that’s even with–
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
We haven’t lost the ability. We just don’t use it. And if you don’t use it, you lose it. In other words, we still have that ability.
Ben Greenfield
That’s what I mean. Yep that’s what I mean.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
We still have the equipment. Rupert Childe did experiments with people, beaming thoughts to other people in an audience blind that nobody knew that they were doing this. And almost 100% of the time people sensed that somebody was beaming at them. So happened our magnetite is not only a receiver. It’s also a tuner. It’s also broadcasting.
Ben Greenfield
Oh, have you ever gone hunting? I don’t know if you have, you look at an animal, let’s see have a, I mean, it doesn’t have to be hunting. It could just be nature, observation, but let’s use hunting for example, and whether it’s my bow or whether it’s a rifle with a scope on it, that animal can, you can be totally upwind from it. It can’t see. There’s no way fully camouflage with the rifle, sometimes you can be 200 yards away. And as soon as you look at it, it pops its head up. It knows it’s being looked at exactly. And I suspect that’s a similar mechanism to what you’ve just described to me.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
Magnetite, and so magnetite is basically it’s our own magnetic fields that we produce internally in our brains. They’re very tiny, but they’re still there. And that means that any other external magnetic fields can interact with those magnetic fields, just like compasses do with the north pole, south pole.
Ben Greenfield
Yeah, you can block it though. There’s a company called Hex. I have one of these suits. It’s crazy, it’s a hunting suit that blocks your magnetic field. And so what happens is, I’ll go out in the forest. I practice out in the very forest I’m walking through right now. We got whitetail deer out here. I’ll walk up within 20 yards of a whitetail and it won’t even know what I am. It’ll just stand there looking at me and not know whether, it doesn’t even know if you’re a living being, it can’t detect the magnetic fill. I mean, these suits, they come with even the head covering. So it literally can’t detect you at all. It’s crazy when you see this in action, it’s almost like cheating when you’re out there and you’re blocking magnetic fill. I believe they make a wet suit that’s very similar for shark avoidance. Blocks the magnetic field coming off the body for shark protection.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
All you need is silver particles. So you can use aluminum or aluminum particles built into a suit, or you can just wear an aluminum sheet and it’ll do the same thing.
Ben Greenfield
Yeah but that’s not very camouflaged Dr. Pawluk.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
That’s why you can build it into a suit. You have the fiber in the suit.
Ben Greenfield
Yeah. It’s a cheap hack though. You get your hunting camo and just wrap yourself off in aluminum foil before you put your hunting camo on.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
Well, we’re getting close to our time. So I wanted to bring up one final thing that you and I spoke about a little bit before we started the video and that is a new Israeli PEMF system that is powerful as powerful as the other ones that you had actually more powerful than that, but has the value of being able to sandwich you, in other words, you’re laying between two magnetic pads at the same time.
Ben Greenfield
Oh, they’re actual pads. They’re not coils, they’re pads.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
They’re well, it’s a coil in a pad.
Ben Greenfield
Okay yeah okay.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
One big round coil in a pad, almost like an antenna in a pad and there’s two of them. So you’re laying between these two pads, pancaking basically between two pads. And then that treats the whole body completely. I recommend those, especially for people with whole skeleton problems like osteoporosis or osteopenia, or they have major bone issues, also stage four cancers, but anybody with cancer.
Ben Greenfield
What about osteoarthritis, cartilaginous issues?
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
Well, locally you could use local devices, but if you got arthritis in many areas of your body at the same time. And most people have arthritis in multiple bones or multiple joints. They have lots of other problems usually as well. So basically it could help anybody from a whole body treatment perspective. Remember a magnetic field drops off very quickly as you move away from the mat. So when you’re doing a sandwich, you’re making the magnetic field in between the two mats, completely uniform, very, very, very uniform. And so the whole body’s being nicely and smoothly and evenly balanced.
Ben Greenfield
Wow. What’s that one called?
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
It’s called the ultra flash.
Ben Greenfield
Well, is that ultra with a U or an A?
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
U.
Ben Greenfield
Ultra flash? It sounds pretty cool. I mean, you briefly told me about it before the call, but yeah, I’m intrigued. It sounds different than any PEMF device I’ve heard of before.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
Because it’s a sandwich and that’s been one of the points that I’ve been trying to work with with magnetic fields that allow you to produce a nice even magnetic fuel. Because some people just have so many problems in their bodies. They need efficiency. They need to decrease the total amount of time they have to spend getting the benefit. So the ultra flash provides you with that value. And compared to other machines that are out there in chiropractor’s offices or doctor’s offices, they cost about $35,000 or more. So this system is still expensive.
Ben Greenfield
Wow.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
Which a lot more than a third, less than a third of the price.
Ben Greenfield
Well, that’s pretty neat.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
So therefore it becomes affordable by more people, many more people.
Ben Greenfield
Yeah, yeah I like that. Now, is that available already for people to get?
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
It is it’s available through drpawluk.com.
Ben Greenfield
Oh cool, that’s amazing.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
We’ll have to talk about as well for your store.
Ben Greenfield
Yeah I’d love to check it out. That’s pretty cool.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
Well, do you have any questions?
Ben Greenfield
Well, I was gonna tell you, I don’t know if people who are watching or listening or already aware of this, I don’t wanna blow smoke, but your recent book that you sent me on PEMF. It was so good. ‘Cause it has like, “Supercharges Cookbook for PEMF”. I actually, I have it down in what I call my Zen Den where I keep all my recovery tools and my sauna and my hyperbaric and everything. It’s a fantastic manual just to flip to for whatever’s going on, gut issue or joint issue or brain fog or whatever. And you did a good job on that book. I really enjoyed it.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
Thank you very much. Yeah so I review 80 different conditions and for each condition I provide a little background, the best magnetic tools to use for it. How do you use them properly and also some recommendations for some supplements?
Ben Greenfield
Yeah yeah, cool. Well I like the book, so people are watching or listening. You’d probably find a good resource. And I appreciate you have me on to have a chat too. Dr. Pawluk I always learn a lot from you.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
Oh, thank you. I learned a lot from you too. You’ve written more books than I have.
Ben Greenfield
I know, yeah. That’s my jam. For some reason God made me incapable of looking at a blank page and not putting something on it. So I just follow my orders.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
Really good. Well, thanks for putting something on our blank page here today, and I hope you enjoy the rest of your day.
Ben Greenfield
Thanks so much.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
And practice broadcasting.
Ben Greenfield
Okay. I’ll look into it.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
Enjoy the rest of your day, thanks again.
Ben Greenfield
All right talk to you later Dr. Pawluk. Much love.
William Pawluk, M.D., MSc
You too.
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