Personalizing Brain Health Through Culture, Curiosity, and Care

Introduction to Katie and the podcast 0:00

She brought up the word fear. She said, what does that mean for you? Growing up, fear was in my belly. I had a volcano in there. It was burning, churning, releasing gases, and it was very uncomfortable. And through doing all the work that I've done, What's still lingering is once in a while I can feel like some tenseness in my gut, but it's no longer that burning volcano. And then I said, what I do is I have places where I can process that in a safe place to release it. And as I said that, she said, did you just feel that huge release that happened in your gut?

And I go, wow, that's why I'm here. Welcome to this episode of the Think Well, Age Well podcast. I am so delighted to have Katie here with me today. I'm really honored to introduce you to someone who has brought so much heart and so much thoughtfulness and so much depth to our community, our coaching community. Katie's a retired registered nurse and a somatic experiencing practitioner. She's the mother of two and the grandmother of two adorable granddaughters who obviously, from my experience of her, light up her world.

She's also a Japanese-American social justice leader and a volunteer with SU-RU for solidarity. Correct me if I didn't pronounce that right. And she's just someone who's deeply committed to creating a better future, not just for her own family, but for generations to come. What I have so appreciated about Katie having her contribute so much, so much depth to our coaching program is how present and engaged she's been. She's not just quietly doing the work behind the scenes, but she's really thoughtfully adapting it and sharing her experience in such an inspiring way.

She's taken the principles that we teach through the coaching program and she's individualized them in a way that honors her culture, her values, and her lived experience. So whether it's the food or the social connections or the brain engagement, she's just been so open in sharing her successes and her challenges. And it's in a way that's helped so many others feel less alone. So Katie, I cannot thank you enough for just having the courage and taking the time and just your generous, your generous shares every time I engage with you.

I feel, I feel like I'm better because of it. So thank you for being here. Thank you. So I'm just so thankful for you inviting me to do this. I never even thought this would happen. Well, you are an inspiration to so many others, to myself and so many others in our group. And I'd love to just start with like, what inspired you to join our coaching program and become part of that community? Well, as a nurse, I didn't believe that you could reverse cognitive decline. So that was news for me. So when I got something in my email, I started reading it and I go like, I don't know this.

Why Katie joined the coaching program 3:08

Is this true? So I got curious, started looking you up, looking up cognitive decline. And I thought, This is something that I want to do. Both my parents had dementia. Mom died at 92, dad at 98, but I'd say the last 10 plus years of their life. was really impacted by their dementia, and they didn't do very much. And I thought, wow, their bodies are still physically healthy, but their minds are not there. It was, I think, a wake-up call for my mom when she stopped sending birthday cards to the family.

And for my dad, he was someone that balanced his check to the penny every month. And so when he stopped doing his income taxes, that was alarming. And they lived in Hawaii. I'm here in California. So it's like I didn't get to see them day in and day out. So this was gradual. that frightened me. And then finding out that I have one copy of APOE4, and so I thought, wow, I really need to do this. This is something that I need to find out more about so that I can delay it, prevent it, whatever. And for me, I think what I found is it's such an empowering thing because I had choices about what I can do.

And it aligns with my value of not just treating symptoms, a lot of what Western medicine does, but really trying to get to the root cause of things. And when I really felt that perspective from your teachings, I thought, this is right where I need to be. So yeah. And what was your experience joining the program? What was the first day like? And then how did that evolve as you continued through the weeks of the course? Yeah. So I don't remember the first day, but I just remember being like, wow, there's a, there's a group that does this.

And, you know, I was, they were a lot of people with Alzheimer's with their spouses, adult children, caretakers, and I don't have Alzheimer's yet, but there are little signs that, you know, I'm not as my memory is not as good as it used to be so it just gave me like even as I'm talking I can feel like this like energy in my body you know it's like wow this is a lot of information and instead of feeling helpless I have all these choices you know Where I can start the little things and a lot of it aligned with my Japanese culture like taking shoes off at the door That's something that I've been doing all my life and I continue here in California and it made sense and it What else was there?

There were so many things that I thought I'm already doing them. So it's like, okay What more can I add to this? So? Excitement and very empowering amazing And I want to talk more about kind of this, this Japanese culture lens. I was sharing with you before we hit record that, you know, we, Dr. Bredesen, myself, every, every doctor, every researcher, everybody in this field, our goal is for this information and this approach to be as impactful

Adapting the program to Japanese culture 6:30

as possible. And I think sometimes what I run into is. that people feel like it's for, you know, an American kind of white culture. And it's hard to adapt if you are Asian or Latin American or, you know, from an Middle Eastern, from another part of the world. And I think that that's one of the things that you did really beautifully. And you've already mentioned your curiosity a couple of times and your That openness, that genuine, sincere curiosity and that willingness to experiment was just, I mean, you're just this beautiful example of that.

So can you describe kind of how you've taken what we talk about in the course, what's in the book, and adapted it to make it work for you? Yeah, so, you know, it's a lot of personal work that I've done on myself, like decades, psychotherapy, somatic trauma work that has gotten me to the point where I'm not coming resentful and angry. That's how I was raised. That was my family of origin. It was very anger-based. And so I think for me to join a group and to see mainly other white bodies in the group was like, okay, how do I be in this group?

And so I just started asking, and I think it was asking you about, well, culturally, There are things that I love to eat that are not allowed in phase one or phase two or maybe even phase three. And so how do I adapt to that? Because I think for me, the biggest hurdle was the keto diet. And so, you know, how can I bring in cultural flavors, cultural foods? And so, you know, you helped me to do that with just a little opening, like, okay, miso's okay, but not the ones with sugar. And okay, you know, I can find those.

And then adding that as a flavor, you know, and knowing that that I didn't need to be on the keto diet continuously to give my body some breaks to develop that metabolic adaptability. I have the continuous glucose monitor. I do the testing periodically for ketones and glucose. So all of that helped me to track different things. So yeah, now I mainly eat an Asian diet and it's just from adapting things that I can eat. And like during the holidays, you know, for New Year's, you know, mochi and azuki beans is like basic.

And so I ate that and. what I've learned through your program and talking to other people. It's like when I have something that I know will raise my blood sugar, I do like squats. I'll do three sets of 10 each squats using the large muscles of my legs to do that. Or I'll Munch on walnuts or often have a beverage and I'll put in some olive oil in it. Something to bring that glucose down. And so then I can check on my monitors to see how I'm doing. And it's amazing how when I eat something that my blood sugar set's going up, as soon as I do what I just mentioned, it starts coming down again.

I'm still learning. The other day I had lunch with a girlfriend and she happens to be on the keto diet too, but she isn't doing your program. And I think through me, she got a continuous glucose monitor and she says, when I eat this linguine with seafood, it doesn't raise my blood sugar as high. And so I ordered that too. And we both checked our monitors. I think she went up to about one forties and I was in the movies. So again, it shows how our. you know, different makeups, we respond to things differently.

And so I think that was good information for me and for her too. How neat. I love that. It's the ripple effect of everything that you're learning. And I mean, you're an educator, you've been a nurse, you've done a lot of educating over the years, but just how fun that, you know, the things that you're learning, they're kind of rubbing off and other people are open to them too and getting the benefits. I remember the class where I think you asked the question, you're like, well, what about mango season?

And we both grew up in Hawaii, so I know what lychee and mango season is like. And yeah, there's an abundance of all this tropical fruit that certainly is going to raise your blood sugar. I think there's a few different ways to navigate that. And like you mentioned, the holidays, right? The holidays come along, we're going to have high sugar foods. It's part of our experience. And this program, the Bredesen approach, the whole point of it is so that you can fully experience life, right? And so if the holidays come up or there's a trip that comes up or you go to Hawaii during mango season, like eat the mangoes and give yourself that break.

Really, the whole point is so that you can be there to be present and remember the experience of mango season. And as we learn, as we have these tools that you're putting to good use, like the continuous glucose monitor, checking our ketones, what we can understand is that over time, hey, if I want to have a bunch of mango, well, if I have some coconut yogurt beforehand, or if I, like you mentioned, take a shot of olive oil or take a tablespoon of coconut oil right before, When I go to have that mango, my blood sugar is not going to spike as high.

Oh, hey, if I do some squats, that blood sugar is going to come down a lot quicker and I might actually even be able to stay in ketosis. And this is really empowering, right? Like as you mentioned, that's really empowering information when we're understanding our own metabolism and we can then use that information to optimize it.

Intergenerational healing and family legacy 12:40

So it's not causing toxicity, you know, glycotoxicity, glucose levels that are going to become toxic and inflammatory to the brain. Yeah. And speaking of mangoes, what I did with mangoes, cause I, I usually would start my day with a bowl of oatmeal with fruit, all kinds of fruit. I love that. And now having to sort of be mindful of how much fruit I take in. So what I would do is I make the keto oatmeal and then I add whole milk cottage cheese on top of it. And then I tried with, I remember three blueberries.

And when I ate one of those blueberries, oh my gosh, the sweetness just burst in my mouth. It was like, oh, this is so good and only three, but I'm enjoying this. And so then I did the same thing with the mangoes, one chunk of mango, I cut into tiny little pieces and put that on top of my keto oatmeal. And it was so delicious, so delicious, so. Yeah, to be able to enjoy things, you know, that I enjoy that remind me of my growing up, my childhood. And that's part of what I'm trying to create for my granddaughters.

I took them to the Big Island, my two kids with their families and my granddaughters. And it wasn't where I grew up. I grew up on the island of Molokai, but I wanted to show them how I grew up and the type of place. So we stayed with my cousin and she had a pastor with goats and I think a few cattle. And so I wanted to show my granddaughters. This is what a mango tree looks like. You don't get mangoes just from the store. See the mangoes hanging on it? There was one place that we rented that had a lychee tree.

And I said, look, those are the lychee that you love. And we were to pick some and have some. And then there was a pineapple plant growing at one of the places. So I showed them, and this is how pineapple grows. So, you know, I'm spreading my enjoyment. And also they live in San Francisco in a high rise. You know, I grew up in a town of 800, a village of 800 people on a pineapple plantation. So I wanted to show them the outdoors and, you know, to be excited. And for some, we got there on the porch where all these geckos coming out and they were like green with like blue backs and like, I don't know, red feet.

They were so colorful. And my granddaughters were so excited. And I thought, This is what I wanted the trip to be about, you know, not just know city life, but know what country living is. So hopefully some of not only that, but who I am and my values and what I'm learning right now will get passed on to them too. Yeah, that's amazing. This intergenerational wisdom transfer is kind of what you're describing and not so much a part of my why. Sometimes I don't even say it anymore because I feel like it, I don't know, sometimes I'm self-conscious that it's trite or cheesy or something.

But this is really, I think, another piece. Yes, it's about experiencing life fully. I feel like when people are going down that path of cognitive impairment, the future generations, there's a tendency to lose respect, but also we just no longer have that capacity to pass this sort of thing on, those experiences and that connection to your roots, that connection to your ancestors and what they've been through. how you got to be the child that you are growing up in San Francisco to high rise. I mean, that took your ancestors coming from Japan to Hawaii, to the pineapple fields, and then everything that you've done since.

And for them to have access to those stories, right? This is such a privilege that many grandchildren don't get because their grandparents either pass away, right? Or they have cognitive impairment and there's not that ability. So what a gift, what an amazing gift you're giving them to show them that lifestyle. You know, I also, go ahead. Yes, I just wanted to mention, you know, that in our generational transmission, trauma also gets transmitted that way. And it's shown, there's been research, so documented research about what's happening.

And so, you know, it's been passed on to me, it's my children, my grandchildren, but I'm like, I'm wanting to stop that or at least slow the progression of it so that Yes, there's this trauma of Japanese-American being incarcerated during World War II unconstitutionally, but there's also, now I can find the joy in life and the joy that got transmitted in my family. We lived outdoors, we went fishing, crabbing, clamming, and I climbed up on the mango tree, spent hours playing up there. So there's both.

And once you've done the healing and start integrating those two things, then both can be acknowledged and both can be appreciated. And that's what I want to pass on. Yeah, we don't get the joys without the challenges, right? It's life is dynamic. Yeah. And, and I'm curious, you know, you have this, you're a somatic experiencing practitioner and you have this very deep understanding of the nervous system, both the lived experience and as a practitioner. And I'm curious, you know, if you don't mind digging deeper into how that lens and experience approached, how you approach now brain healing and preventing

Somatic work, trauma, and nervous system healing 18:30

dementia for yourself in the context of this program. Yeah, so just to give a little bit of history, you know, I've had three major depressions in my life. I was on antidepressants and I remember the psychiatrist telling me, you'll be on this for the rest of your life. And it was, you know, all the work that I've done, but I think it's when I found the somatic piece to how to heal through the nervous system, That I've not had another major depression since I think the knees and you know, I got off antidepressants and you know, I proved the psychiatrist wrong.

Yay. It's nothing's impossible. So me, you know, it's Through that training, it's how I look at people, how I look at groups and systems. You know, what's the whole doing? And I'm still doing that work. You know, one of the things that I've done recommended, you know, with your class is I see a non-physician osteopath and she does a large bulk of what she does is cranial sacral, which just really my body responds to it. So I was on the table with her a few days ago and she says, she brought up the word fear.

She said, what does that mean for you? I said, you know, growing up. Fear was in my belly, and she had her hands on my belly. So obviously, she was feeling something there. And I said, when I was growing up, what it manifested was like I had a volcano in there. It was burning, churning, releasing gases, and it was very uncomfortable. And through doing all the work that I've done, what's still lingering is once in a while, I can feel like some tenseness in my gut. But it's no longer that burning volcano.

And then I said, what I do is I have places where I can process that in a safe place to release it. And as I said that, she said, did you just feel that huge release that happened in your gut? And I go, wow, that's why I'm here. And I'm finding more practitioners, more friends, more service people that are more aligned with my way of thinking. So it's like so much is starting to come together for me. But yeah, so, you know, even in my activist work with Sudu, it's like, okay, we heal ourselves, but we're healing.

And we're utilizing our community to heal because if you don't address your own trauma, you'll start projecting it on other people. And so to be able to really be clear what's mine and what's someone else's and to come from that place of, yes, we're all in this together. We're all interdependent, you know, to say that we're isolated does not work. So, you know, it's a whole different shift and I'm still trying to integrate what that really means for myself. So, yeah, I feel like you're asking me a question and I keep going on and on about other things.

That's so insightful. couple of takeaways for me and certainly things I've experienced myself and I think seen in the group program as well as we don't heal in isolation, we heal in community. And so I feel so privileged to be able to create that container, that community. And then it's the sharing. It's really, it's the sharing and that experience that it inspires so that we can better implement. But it also, when we see it happening for something else or for someone else, we realize, okay, that can happen for me.

And that person has solved this problem. And if they can do it, then I can do it, right? That kind of shared experience. Or maybe even it's a reflection of like, oh, she mentioned trauma. That actually, that's a part that I've never thought about. And there's a sort of aha, this awakening to that. So yeah, thank you. Thank you very, very much for sharing. I'm curious, when you slow down and tune into your body, you mentioned seeing an osteopath who does this craniosacral work. I'm wondering if that feels just as important and perhaps maybe even more important than the supplements and the labs and the medical, medical piece.

How do you balance those and how do you navigate kind of what you prioritize and when? Yeah, so for me, it's all about relationship building, no matter who it's with. And I'll take the human touch and connection over supplements any day. To me, that's like the best medicine. But I've also started learning about things that you have mentioned in class and started those. And some of what I've started doing is changing brands of what I take. So, let's see, the fatty acids, it's a particular brand. Now that I'm doing, and you know, it's just recently within the last few weeks, and I think vitamin B12, I've changed.

And so, yeah, but for me, because so much of my trauma happened in relationship in my family, that for me, the healing comes in being in relationship with You know, my Japanese American community, I'm a student of Resma Menikam. And so, you know, we have different communities that I'll meet with people in triads where we do our semantic work. And for me, it's, it's the relationship that I have with people and I, it feels like it's such a. And I used to be so closed off. I never reached out to people.

I really, people saw me as strong and you know, and that was hiding all the pain and fear and terror inside of my body. So for me not to, um, experience that on the level that I did is like so liberating. Yeah. Wow. Yeah. And so inspiring. This journey isn't linear, whether we're addressing trauma or dementia or anything that comes up as we age. What challenges have you come across? What have you run into? And how do you navigate that when your motivation isn't quite there or the clarity is dipped for a minute?

How do you get back on track when you face challenges? I think I was just at a workshop last weekend. It was by Kazu Haga, a Japanese American teacher, Buddhist, nonviolent, per Dr. Martin Luther King. And so for me, You know, he uses one symbol and it was like this.

Community, vulnerability, and social justice 25:40

I don't know if you can see. This is my boundary. And the other hand is an open palm, kind of welcoming, compassion. And so for me, you know, how do I not go into this polarity of one or the other, but how do I integrate so I can hold both? And that's been a challenge for me. One of the exercises we did was we wrote on a card, like one of our fears. And then we started walking around and first we hid it from people and if and when you were ready, you could release it. So then it's like, okay, I released it.

And then I looked at other people and it's like, I was not alone. I was not the only person that had this particular fear and how vulnerable people were being. So I met a woman there who my kids grew up in grade school in the neighborhood. And she was, she's half black and this is so interesting about her. She brought this photo of her father in college with other black men. It was a big framed photo that she carried. And she said, my father is the one, the only one in that group without a rifle.

And so he offered to be the go-between between administration and his group because some kind of protest had happened. And he was able to negotiate very peacefully a resolution. And then she had this other framed copy and it was her mother's grandfather who was in the Holocaust. And I thought, oh my gosh, this person has two huge traumas. And yet she was such a outgoing, positive person. And she was organizing the Martin Luther King Day March in Sacramento. And I wanted to go. In fact, I said, I'm going to go.

I woke up this next morning and my gut was a knots. And I go, what is going on? She's white passing, even though she's half black. All the other people that had offered to volunteer were white body people. And I thought, you know, I feel safe in my Tudu group. We've known each other for five, six years. We've done security training before. We have a plan when there's a direct action, and I feel like everyone has my back. I didn't know these people, you know? And my body was saying, with this Asian phase, with what's happening in our world and neighborhoods right now, it doesn't feel safe for me to be with other white bodies that may not hold me in the same way as that my own community would.

So I opted out, even though my cognitive brain was saying, you should go, you'll get to know these people better. And meanwhile, my gut said no way. So I'm now listening more and more for the wisdom that comes out of my own body. And through Resma, you know, there's this list of things that we, how we get information. And for me, it's like, if I can make the best decision for myself by listening to all these parameters rather than just my neocortex, then wouldn't I want to do that all the time? And so it's scary, but I'm listening to myself more and more and letting other people know, which is scary.

Who knows what can happen? Yeah, very vulnerable, but also very sincere. And write that curiosity again, who knows what can happen? I'm sure there's somebody out there, you know, who's heard you share the story and is kind of hearing it as permission to do the same, right? That is actually quite inspiring. I keep saying that word over and over again, Katie, like you were just so inspiring. You have been such a generous presence in the group. And I'm curious, you know, you've kind of just explored this a bit, but even in the context of your communities and your groups, how does being in that community and sharing the vulnerability and listening to others, what happens for you?

Like what you were describing at the workshop, sharing the fear and turning that around and sharing the fear with others. But also you've done that in our group. And I'm curious, does it get any easier? Maybe, maybe that's my question. You know, I think like I have to also use my discretion, where is it safe to do that and where, you know, and I've tested. Sometimes I let a little bit out and I get no response and I go like, okay, not there. Then I'll try other places. So for me, I think what works for me is when I share something vulnerable and I'm seen or heard by at least one person.

Then that my body starts settling right away But if I'm in a space where like, you know, I'm sharing this but I don't get much feedback or you know one or two comments and it dies and it's like this is not the right place and you know not blaming them they they come from a different orientation perspective and I'm not gonna push my way on others. I think that's what I've done because Suda, we've done some work with Kanaka Maoli, so Indigenous Native Hawaiians, and we went there as a group. And one of the things that I do in Suda is I'm a healing circle facilitator.

And so we were taking our model to help them after the Lahaina fires. And I think one of the things that, you know, We as Japanese American had to be cautious of because Japanese Americans came as immigrants to Hawaii and then they became colonizers and rose up the ranks and stepped on the shoulders of, you know, and other bodies of culture, you know, to be really like, listen to them. What is it that they need? And we took our modeled and we adapted it so it fit their values and their culture. So, so it's like, you know, treat others how you would want to be treated yourselves and it's a lifelong learning for.

You know, I don't get everything right. I bomb a lot of times, just ask my kids. Right. If you think you've made a lot of progress, go home to your family. Yeah.

Brain health progress and reduced chronic pain 32:40

You know, you bring up such a great point, this experience of vulnerability and kind of putting it out there, like dipping your toe in the water. Is this a safe place? And that the freedom to do that without judgment. Because everyone is fighting a battle we know nothing about, right? Everyone who's showing up, they've got their traumas and they've got their experience. And certainly in our dementia community, you know, there's some people who didn't get any sleep last night because their mom who they're caring for was up all night because her dementia is progressing.

or you know they're concerned about their adult children and about their spouse and so they're they're busy in their mind you know they don't have the capacity they're not meeting you in that place because they just don't have the capacity not because they're bad or they're not open to it but that moment doesn't work for them and so i think that that i love how you kind of describe like i put it out there and if nobody bites then I just reel it back in. And that's okay. That's okay. This isn't the time or space, but I can get those social cues.

And that is all that is what being in community is about. Right? Yeah, I really love that. I'm curious as well, you know, you've been very involved in social justice and intergenerational healing and showing up in community in many, many ways, as you've described. How does that shape how you think about brain health? Yeah. So, yeah. You know, the more grounded I am and my parasympathetic nervous system is in board, then I feel more spontaneously my authentic self can come out. And the more that I do that, the more Like, I want to tell you this recent development that just blew me away, and I think it has a lot to do with brain health, because, you know, my whole thing was I want to learn about this work, do the keto diet that's the most challenging, and see what happens.

So I started with you, I think, in September of last year, and I fiddled around with the keto diet, thinking, oh, gosh, this is so hard. You know, I can't eat what I want to eat. I love sugar. And then I got like a little more into it. And over the holidays, Thanksgiving, Christmas, New Year's is like, I kind of went off of it and I'd been back on it. But within the last two, I'd say three weeks now, I've had chronic back pain. For over 30 years, when my son was in grade school, I went skating with his class, fell on my butt, and I also have scoliosis, so I've had chronic back pain ever since.

Every time, probably the most comfortable position for me is in my bed with pillows on either side. With the work that I've been doing with the osteopath and Pilates one-on-one twice a week, I would experience like, oh, it doesn't hurt, but it wouldn't last. You know, it would last half a day, maybe a day. In the last three weeks, I get up and there's like, the pain is just about gone in my back. Exercises that I used to do that used to trigger it, it's like, it's not there. So I'm like, wow. So I went back on my notes and you outlined the benefits of a keto diet.

And one of it was decrease inflammation and decrease pain. Oh my gosh. So I've been living in this like, is this going to last? You know, and I'm like so excited. I'm like more energetic that the exercising the walking and you know, my pilates now that I don't have that pain. She's into like building up my butt muscles doing more extensive. things that I haven't done before. And it feels good that I'm like strengthening the body, but everything's being strengthened, right? The brain health. And I can't say, like I used to walk into my bedroom because I needed something there and I go there and I couldn't remember.

I have to come back and then go back. Now I walk over and I go like, Oh, what was it? And then I go there and I stop a moment ago. Oh, this is what it was. So I'm starting to like not to remember faster, I guess. Um, so, you know, that's like a little sign, but I'm so encouraged, but the pain, the chronic pain, not being there constantly is like, Hey, I'm just thrilled. What an amazing thing to get to celebrate with you today. I mean, how incredible to have the freedom from that pain. And one of the great things that that story illustrates, Katie, is it wasn't just one thing, right?

It wasn't like you just got on the ketogenic diet and the pain went away. It wasn't like you just went to Pilates and the pain went away. You didn't just go to the osteopath and the pain went away. It was probably the combination of all three. And maybe even a few other variables that you've just sort of upleveled over the course of the past six months or more. And over the course of your life, right? You've been on a path where you're committed to healing and the ripple effects of that healing.

And you more than, well, no, everyone deserves healing, but you've done the work. And you deserve that freedom from pain so much. And I'm so, so, so delighted that the puzzle pieces came together so that you're getting it. And also I hear you just appreciating it and enjoying it. So wonderful. And pain, I think a lot of people don't realize how stressful that can be, especially when it's chronic pain and you've dealt with it for so long. You don't even know what it's like to live without it. And it I mean, it creates cortisol.

It increases cortisol, which can be toxic to the brain. It interferes with our sleep. It interferes with our relationships. It's this constant drain on our system when we're in pain. And so the freedom to experience a pain-free life is something everyone deserves. And I'm so delighted that you're getting it, and it's directly impactful on your brain health. So thank you for sharing that fantastic story. Yeah. Oh, go ahead. Yeah, so one thing, in that three weeks, there was one night, might have been the night before last, because I've got this two-day retreat that my co-leader

Starting small and staying consistent 39:20

and I are doing, and I have to zoom off to the Bay Area after this. So that was like stressful for me, and I didn't get the amount of sleep that I normally do. And the chronic pain did not return full force, but I could feel some differences in my body. So I thought, wow. Just that one to two hours of not the usual sleep that I get has impacted my pain. And it just shows how stressed, you know, lack of sleep and other things, probably cortisol, you know, in the middle of the night, all of that contributed.

And I go like, wow, it's just amazing. And that's what I love about, you know, what's been created is that it's multifactorial. It's not just one thing. Exactly, exactly. If for someone who's listening and feeling a little overwhelmed, maybe like you did in the beginning, and they're perhaps like just unsure of where to start, what would you want them to know? Like even thinking back on your previous self, what do you wish you knew a couple of years ago? Or what would you want someone to know who's kind of just dabbling in this space?

Well, I remember how what you told us from day one is like, take a small step, do what's doable to try and like tomorrow you're going to be on a total keto diet is not even feasible. So start small, something that you can do and that feels good to you. And so, you know, it's like. Throw perfectionism out the door, there's no such thing. Do what feels right for you. And you know, the support that you've created with that weekly group is like wonderful because then people bring their questions, they hear from other people.

And so that's like a community right there. A very helpful hints and support to do something challenging and that's new that you've never done before. Thank you so much, Katie. You are just, I'll say it again and again, you are an inspiration. It's such a privilege to have you in the group. You are just so open and thoughtful and you've modeled really, really beautifully. that brain health, it's not like you just mentioned, it's not about perfectionism, it's not about a rigid set of rules, but it's about curiosity and intention and honoring where you come from and making it yours, making it your own and a commitment to the process as well.

I just, your journey has reminded me over and over again how deeply personal and deeply connected collective and connected this is at the same time, right? Like you mentioned holding both. We're constantly holding both our brains, our bodies, not just for ourselves, but for the people we love and for the wider community and the generations that come after us. And you are, you just are embodying this commitment to healing and then to sharing that healing so it's in the service of others. And the way you show up is just beautiful and I want to be with you when I grow up.

So thank you, Katie. Thank you for being here and just for being you. Oh, thank you. Thank you. That means a lot to me. And that's why I'm still doing your classes. Well, thank you. You add so much value every single time you show up. So thank you. Thank you. Thank you so much for listening to the Think Well, Age Well podcast. If you enjoyed today's conversation, please take a moment to subscribe, leave a review, and share this episode with someone you care about. It's one of the best ways to help others discover tools and inspiration for aging well.

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