This is Doctor Talks, real talk from real doctors on the issues that matter to you most. Hello, and welcome to this episode of the Environmental Toxicants, Auto Immunity, and Chronic Diseases Summit.

I'm Dr. Wendy Trubo, and I will be your host today. I know I say this every time, but I'm super excited to be interviewing Jonathan Landsman today. He has been in the health and fitness industry for over 35 years and is the host of naturalhealth365.com, which offers a free newsletter, podcasts, and videos that reveal the very best information in science and natural health solutions.

Throughout his career, Jonathan has created over 500 online programs with over 300 of the brightest minds in natural health and science. He's the creator of six best-selling online educational programs, including the Stop Cancer and Fatty Liver DocuClass, And today we're going to talking all about ways to improve liver and kidney health and also really ditch the cravings for sugar.

So Jonathan, welcome. Thank you so much for being here. Welcome. It's a pleasure to be here, Wendy. It's exciting. We've got good information for all those that are concerned about liver and kidney health.

So important. And obviously all of this will be centered around Reducing that inner fire inside that inflammation that really is at the core of why these organs shut down over time and cause so many problems.

Yeah, a hundred percent. How'd you get into this? I mean, did you wake up one day and said, I'm going to become an expert in the liver and the kidneys?

Like what happened? No, absolutely not. I was very athletic as a child. My father, a blessed memory was a great teacher, always enjoyed teaching. big influence in my life.

So I spent a lot of time with him. And another thing that he loved was athletics, played handball, took me to a lot of the health clubs throughout the United States and mostly around the New York area.

And I'll never forget, I tell the story all the time. When I was 17 years old, I just looked around as I was thinking, what am I going to do with the rest of my life?

And I was so into athletics on a personal level, how much it was doing for me and feeling so good. I said, how can I, how can I do this for more people?

That's what I want to do. I was standing in a health club and I was saying, I'm going to be able to help a lot of people with health and fitness. So you can say it was a vision, but just back then I remember it hitting me really hard that this is what I wanted to do.

And actually, you know, had to tell my parents I want to walk away from a family business that they were doing has nothing to do with health. And that was a big deal for me at 17 to say I didn't want to continue on in that business.

And so fast forward to now, almost 58 years old, here I am today, doing it. Wow. I mean, to be a fly on the wall when you have that conversation with your parents, like, I'm walking away from this.

It's quite a moment. It was, but it was good. They were very cool about it. I mean, it was a bigger deal for me thinking that, oh my God, what will they think?

But it was actually really good. And I never looked back. studying, you know, exercise science, health and physical fitness, running health clubs, doing a lot of brick and mortar stuff and being in every aspect of health and fitness and coaching and private coaching and high, high performance athletic training I was doing.

I had a lot of very affluent clients who were asking me to help them with their fitness needs. So all these things were going over time and now it's full time.

I'm doing this on the internet now through the programs in a site that you mentioned. So how, how long did it take you to transition from bricks and mortar type of behavior to fully online?

Like, was that an easy process for you? Was that challenging? What happened? The whole process has been challenging. And yeah, I mean, it was from now it's, I don't know, over 15 years of a process.

Thanks to my beautiful wife saying to me when I was in the middle of taking care of so many things in brick and mortar and seeing, you know, literally hundreds and hundreds of people every single day going through the club scene and talking to people about all their health and fitness needs and being so busy from six, seven in the morning till, you know, early evening, every single day, she's saying we got to get a website.

So it's just learning all of those things about HTML code and how to do audio interviews, things like this that were just archaic at the beginning. But it was all challenges.

But certainly, if I can use the cliche, a labor of love, my wife and I are both passionate about helping others in this space. And so we just kept chugging away every single day, learning and making a ton of mistakes.

lots of frustration, lots of challenges on the liver and the kidney, right? You're afraid of things, you're upset over things, but it's just a matter of what we're gonna talk about today is dealing with things in a much better way that just helped us to improve every step of the way.

And so I wouldn't have it any other way. All of the stress, all of the challenges have been an absolute blessing and I'm very happy to be where I am today.

And I think you've really transitioned into that away from one to one into one to many. So you can make an even greater impact and contribution going back to the epiphany and the vision you had when you were 17. So you've really brought it full circle.

So I want to transition a little bit and talk about something that I call the devil and be devils a lot of people, which is sugar, because it's everywhere.

And I think people have a lot of difficulty staying away from it. And I, as a clinician, see the impact that it has. And you also see the impact it has.

So can you talk about, first off, why is sugar so bad? I know it's not just in a nutshell, but like, sort of broadly, what goes on? Well, you took away the words, because I was going to say, in a nutshell, it really is the most simple, direct way of putting it.

Sugar in excess is going to absolutely cause too much of that chronic inflammation in the body. So if you speak to anybody in the world, they're going to easily be able to admit, oh, yeah, inflammation is not good for the body.

Cellular breakdown, right? The cellular wall breaks down. Things don't work as well. Cells make our tissues. Tissues make our organs. Fatty liver is going to develop with too much sugar, whether it's artificial sweeteners.

That's a whole other discussion, but not good. all the kinds of sugars that are out there. This is just very destructive on our cells and our organ tissue.

And so this is the kind of thing I think that people need to just be told more because conventionally speaking, Nobody's really talking about it that much.

You know, if you hear it all the time everywhere you go is that people are talking about, well, I shouldn't have that thing. I shouldn't be eating this.

But then they eat it anyway. Why is that? Yeah. So, I mean, humans are going to be human. So my first question is, is there some quantifiable amount or does this really change for every person or is it an all or nothing zero sum game?

Yeah, I think it does matter on the person. Obviously, if they're more physically active, they may tend to get away with it more. I think any amount of sugar is something to watch out for.

But if you're talking about a very, very healthy person in all ways that we mean healthy, emotionally, physically, mentally, spiritually, all of these things, and there's no signs of illness at all, is a little bit of sugar a big deal?

No, I think the nature of the sugar certainly has a lot to do with it. You hear a lot of people saying, oh, don't eat grains, grains are no good. I get that part of it, but certainly brown rice and lentil bean sugar, chickpeas and all of this, Do I think this is the scourge of the earth, as you say, you use the word the devil, versus chocolate cake and brownies and cookies and even organic chips and pasta.

Eating a lot of that food is really a no-go. I don't think that's good for anybody if that's the vast majority of what you eat. And I do believe that for a lot of people, they may not even admit or be aware of the fact that they are very sugar based in the way they're eating.

Or they might say things like I did when I was younger. Oh, hey, it's organic. So it must be okay. And I don't mean the obvious organic sugar or white sugar.

Obviously, any of that I think is just like you say, you're playing with the devil, right? So you have a little bit of that, like a little bit of cocaine and then you're gonna want more and more.

So I think it's always about the nature of the sugar that you're eating and how much of it you're eating and also very much in relationship to your health status and how physically active you are.

I think all of that has a lot to do with it. And also when you couple that with the amount of toxicity that is around you and within you in terms of where else you're getting toxins in your life because When all of that is there as well, a small amount of sugar presents itself as a much bigger problem for that person that's always feeling agitated, really filled with toxins, dealing with health problems.

A little sugar in coffee could be a really big problem, or even half a cup of blueberries for that really hypersensitive person who's a diabetic, has got major blood pressure issues, you're shifting your attention to a very different kind of person and say someone like me, we're not presenting any issues with blood pressure, not taking any medications at all, half a cup of blueberries, certainly not as much of a problem as someone who's dealing with a lot of health issues.

So I think it's always important to talk in context. I'm really very careful not to make blanket statements, but if I were to make one blanket statement, Eating too much sugar is no good, and sugar in general should be kept at a minimum.

And we can talk about some other tips that would help someone to get that under control. Because I don't think it's enough to be able to say to someone, hey, sugar is no good, and cut it out.

Stop eating it so much. No, I think we need to go a little bit deeper into that. But I think the first thing that you've really said that's a tremendous pearl is that the quality of the food you're eating matters and the quality of what ultimately converts into sugar because everything gets ultimately broken down into sugar.

So how hard is it to get it from its source to being sugar? And what did it start at when you put it in your mouth? So if it comes from a package, if it's processed, if it's straight up sugar, that's going to be intrinsically more inflammatory and alter the way that your body responds versus food-based sources that are harder to break down, not processed.

I mean, they're ultimately going to get to sugar, but again, the balance of them. Well, if we could stay on that topic, then that's perfect. So in the context of eating sugar, not that I would recommend this technique, But if you're eating chocolate cake and you chew it up really, really well, is that better than gulping it down?

Yes. But going back to what you were saying about how you manage that sugar intake, brown rice, which is filled with lots of natural fibers or an apple that has sugar or other kinds of fruits that you are chewing with fiber in it.

Yes, of course. It's a different impact. But chewing in general is a lost art as well throughout the Western world. So chewing is introducing more saliva and breaking down those sugars, which are intended by our body's design to be broken down with all the enzymes that get produced in the mouth.

So if we are just and swallowing right away, it's like there is no chewing. There is no saliva. And down the hatch it goes, where it's festering in the stomach.

And that's not a good thing. So obviously the quality of the sugar we eat, keeping it a minimum, making the quality as high as possible. Organic food in general is great, but that quality and chewing it up really well has a huge impact on our overall wellbeing and keeping inflammation down.

I'm laughing as you say this, Jonathan, because about a year ago, I was reading how the average number of chews is three to four chews before a human being swallows.

And I thought, OK, and then in our practice, we see a lot of people with digestive issues, bloating, gas, diarrhea, but really the bloating and the constipation and the diarrhea and the GERD.

And then I thought, OK, well, if you chew your food better, you have smaller particles that get into the stomach, smaller particles that then get into the small intestine.

So you're intrinsically setting up the the the whole system to be better if you give your body smaller particles. So a year ago I took on I'm going to chew my food 25 times every time I put it in my mouth.

Do you know how long it takes to eat a meal? When you chew your food 25 times, I'm always the last human being at the dinner table chewing. But it makes a tremendous difference in digestion and experience and absorption.

So the end result is much better. But if the people around you aren't doing it, it takes a much longer time to eat. Just for the record, you're absolutely right.

For the record, my studies in natural medicine started with the macrobiotic community and macrobiotics is very well known for helping a lot of people with cancer and all kinds of health issues.

But I was in charge of running these large summer conferences. And so everybody would come around for a week. They would stay away on a college campus.

They eat three meals a day. There was a place for people to eat. But then there was this special place for people who want to chew their food, including the bowl of soup 100 times in silent meditation.

So you would go into a tent. I had my outdoors tent. your seating area, bench and tables, all that. You have a cup of soup, little miso soup, you know, a little tofu, a little wakame, some soybean paste, the miso, right?

All great quality stuff. Your one soup and your one bowl of brown rice took me one hour to do that every single day. And you are with. lots of other people who wanted to experience that as well.

Again, most people, practically speaking, Wendy, are not going to chew that long, but there was something really valuable that came out of that that is so important for liver and kidney function, right?

And that is this whole idea All of this that we talk about is inflammation, too much inflammation in the body, too much physical stress on the body, and we break down.

And when we physically are breaking down like this by making poor food, drink choices, lifestyle choices, which I know we talked off camera, you talked a lot about, anger and fear.

We can talk a little bit about that if you like, but making these poor choices when it comes to all of these things sets the stage for us to always be feeling like, you know, in this sympathetic mode, not a parasympathetic nervous system state.

When we are in a parasympathetic state, we are generally speaking calmer. We can manage things better inside of our body. biochemically, let's just stick to that alone, but also obviously emotionally, spiritually, mentally, we're in a much better place to be able to deal with the stresses of our life.

And when you chew your food, even 20, 30 times more than the two or three, it's gonna have a huge impact on your nervous system. All you have to do is really devote yourself to doing that one time.

And you will absolutely feel on a nervous system level, like everything has calmed down probably about 10 levels, especially compared to what most people are feeling.

those people out there who are not feeling well. This is a tremendously powerful thing that people can do immediately that costs nothing at all. Of course, eat the best organic quality food and don't be screaming and yelling before you eat and surround yourself with good people when you have a meal, yes.

But if you just take more time to chew, it is amazingly settling and great for the entire body. I love this. Now you just said something a few minutes ago that caught my attention because most people who want to eat less sugar feel out of control.

So you referenced making poor choices. And yes, ultimately, we are in the driver's seat and we make the choices. But I think a lot of people feel out of control around sugar.

Like, it has them. They don't have it. It has them, and they need it. But you, off camera, talked about a way that people can interrupt these cravings.

And I was hoping you could talk about that because that's so powerful to be able to give people a tool for, oh, you could actually interrupt this craving so that you can get through it and continue to eliminate, decrease, and avoid sugar.

So can you talk about that? Yeah, sure. I think it's just a very simple strategy that everybody would benefit. Again, we don't like to make blanket general statements, but this one would definitely fall into that bucket as being A-OK.

And that would be to hydrate more throughout the day. I think as a strategy, people need to drink more water. And I think most people are like, yeah, I don't really drink too much.

I can't stand it. Spike it with a little lemon juice if you want. but another strategy is to greatly increase, and I say it that way because most people are grossly deficient in vitamin C intake.

So if you just have vitamin C powder dissolved in water, you, Wendy, would not know that it's in this water glass. Most people won't. It's a little bit of a tart flavor, but so what?

So now throughout the day, you're treating yourself with probably one of the best quote unquote IV treatments that you could give yourself for basically very little cost and a huge impact on reducing your craving for that sugar.

One, you're more well hydrated throughout the day. So say you take a glass eight ounces, 10 ounces, and you put two, three, 4,000 milligrams of vitamin C powder in there, stir it up, drink it down over the course of, I don't know, 10, 15 minutes, a relatively short period of time.

Down the hatch it goes in the morning, great. Now, late morning, early afternoon, late afternoon, early evening at best, because of course, a few hours before you go to sleep, you don't want to be guzzling a lot of liquid, then you'll be waking up in the middle of the night and being well rested and getting a good night's sleep has a lot to do with our hormone balance and our ability to reduce our cravings for all kinds of unhealthy things.

So we can get there in a moment if you like about sleep and sleep habit tips, but during the day, putting that vitamin C in your water and just upping your intake to a very basic level, although it sounds like it's radical to most people, what Linus Pauling was recommending for all people, six to 10,000 milligrams of vitamin C every day for the average, normal, healthy person.

Does the form matter, Jonathan? Yeah, the form is not something I think we should get too hung up on now. Yes, liposomal is a bit more expensive. It does get into the cells more.

You have a fat encapsulated vitamin C and sort of like a gel type of liquidy substance that you can take directly in your mouth, you know, with a teaspoon and then sip it down with some water.

Liposomal is going to get intracellular. It's going to be easier to get in the cells. Vitamin C powder is going to interact with your digestive system, so oral amounts, capsules.

I don't particularly like swallowing lots of pills and capsules, so a powdered form that you can dilute in water certainly is going to be interacting with your digestive system and you're not going to absorb as much, and it's going to be more of an extracellular vitamin C intake.

But the bottom line is instead of splitting these hairs, it's just to move that vitamin C intake up to at least 6,000 to 10,000 milligrams a day. That is completely reasonable for most people out there dealing with medications that they're taking, the normal day to day, even if they're not taking drugs at all for any kind of health conditions, just the normal, everyday stress that we're all dealing with in terms of life and 5G, 4G, all this EMF pollution that's around us and just these, you know, these relationship issues that we have to deal with day to day and the things that we have to get done.

we are not producing enough vitamin C when our bodies are under stress, like most people, most animals. And so this is the kind of thing that is essential and it has to be gotten from our diet.

But diet alone these days, especially Wendy, is not going to do it. And I think most people watching this, Wendy, they're dealing with some sort of health issue.

And if they're not dealing with a health issue, they certainly know someone, their family, their friends who they care about so deeply that is really struggling with health problems, they would greatly benefit from vitamin C.

I'll just tell you one quick story of somebody that worked with me, who again, to be perfectly candid, is not really so savvy about all of these things that all your experts are talking about here on your program.

He didn't know anything much about vitamin C and he's been around my work and he's in our business, but he got hit with a illness that was really making him feel under the weather.

And he was struggling with it for a few days. I told him, take some more vitamin C, basically what I told you, just up it. He went to a pharmacist to get some drugs for his symptoms, you know, cold stuffiness.

And when they found out, the pharmacist found out how much he was taking, which was several thousand milligrams a day, they said, oh, no, don't do that.

A thousand milligrams a day, that's the most you should take. You could get kidney stones. Wendy, for anyone who's concerned about vitamin C, they really should refer themselves to the Reardon Clinic.

This is the vitamin C capital of the United States, if not the world. I happen to know very well the chief medical officer there, Dr. Ronald Huntinghockey.

He has personally supervised and overseen over a quarter million IV therapies, if you will, sessions. And in these sessions, the vast majority of these people are severely compromised in liver, kidney function, dealing with massive issues with cancer, heart disease.

These are not world-class athletes in pristine health, and all of them are taking starting off at 25, 50,000, 100,000 more milligrams of vitamin C per day.

No issues with kidney stones. This is a complete myth. It is so pushed as fear-mongering and conventional medicine with no good basis grounded in good science at all.

I just hope people don't just believe what I'm saying, Look this up yourself. Increase your vitamin C intake. You will not be sorry in terms of reducing inflammation throughout your body.

It's wonderful to help support good liver function and kidney function, improve the quality of your blood in general, and it will absolutely reduce your craving for sugar if you're just more well hydrated with good quality clean water and you're taking in that vitamin C on a regular basis.

Don't expect this to change overnight, but over time it absolutely will. And then yes, another pro tip, let's just say the obvious is try to find those sugars, like we said before, that are better quality.

You know, do grapes have sugar? Can they spike your sugar levels? Yes. Can a cup of blueberries spike your sugar levels high? Yes, it can. But if you're hooked on cakes and crackers and pretzels and cookies and donuts, and you're moving away from these things that have virtually no fiber to speak of at all, and the worst quality sugar, and your next transition, which I certainly did when I was first starting this out, you know, changing over my diet 36 plus years ago, Moving to these better quality sugars is great.

Dried raisins instead of a chocolate chip cookie from the supermarket shelf. I mean, it's definitely a place to go. And if you have these health issues, you certainly want to work with a health care provider.

a health coach that understands these things to really just keep you going in the right direction. But your cravings will change. And just another quick story I had when I was in my macrobotic days, I was a very black and white guy.

My personality was, wow, this is amazing information. I'm going to just do this. And I didn't have as much of a problem to just take it and run with it kind of thing.

So I did that with Macrobotics, really moved away from the fast food, eating the pizzas and the Taco Bells and all of that other world and moved into all this organic eating, rice and sea vegetables and beans and miso soup and all of these wonderfully healthy, natural organic foods.

I went to a holiday time period and spent time with my mom and dad of blessed memory when they were around. And when they had tea at the end of dinner, My cup was switched with my father's cup.

My father loved sugar. As soon as that teacup touched my lips, I just spit it out immediately without even a thought. That was an experience I will never forget in terms of a self-defense mechanism, if you will, that blew my mind.

How on earth did my body recognize sugar? I didn't even say, wow, this is so sweet. I have to put this down. Where is my cup? It was just an immediate reaction of repulsion.

And I didn't want it. So again, that was an extreme change for me in my diet for quite a long time. and then visiting their home, having that little bit of sugar, it was a very strong reaction.

It was really freaky. But it's just to tell that story, to give hope to people that your body, your biochemistry, your taste buds, your cravings absolutely can change.

But you need to be consistent with your approach. And if you're not changing that craving, then you need to make some more changes and just be honest with yourself to keep going down the road until you get to the point where you are not controlled by these cravings.

To be perfectly clear, cravings for food that control you, consume you, that is clearly a sign of poor health. Not to be judgmental to anyone out there, but that's absolutely a sign that something's going on.

You can't fast for a long period of time, say an entire day, comfortably, I would underline comfortably being able to fast without feeling anger issues, frustration, extreme cravings and feeling out of control.

That is a sign that your body still needs work in getting healthier and healthier. So I hope some of these things help people out there, Wendy. Yeah, I think this is great, Jonathan, because one thing you're highlighting is I always say, you know, the way you eat is a spectrum and find yourself on the spectrum.

And the goal would be just keep making improvement every day, every week, every month, every year. Get better this year than you were last year. Make not better like a better person, but just do a better job.

And so the thing that's so nice about what you're talking about is wherever you are it's about I always think someone is either a fell swoop kind of human where they're going to change everything about the way they eat or they're an incremental process one step at a time.

So you first have to figure out like who are you and what works best in your life and your family and your house and what have you already purchased and you need to get rid of.

But what's so nice about what you highlighted is you can substitute. It's not like you have to go from eating a way that has a lot of processed food into one that's macrobiotic in one step necessarily.

What you want to do is walk on that spectrum and get better. Look to see what can you switch out. I think also it's other practical things that I think people fail to do, which makes it difficult for them to avoid sugar is who you're hanging out with.

Sometimes you can't control that, but then maybe you can steer where you meet. Jonathan, you don't understand. I go out. I have to go out. It's my social.

I can't stay cooped up in my home or my office. I need to do that. Okay, great. So then go like my wife and I always seek out the best quality organic restaurants to at least get the best organic food and go there where you're going to be tempted less.

So be careful who you're surrounding yourself with. If you are being influenced greatly by people that are really giving you that opportunity to eat a lot of sugars.

Maybe you do have to change that up a bit as well. But again, it depends how serious somebody wants to take this. And Wendy, I would say that obviously for a lot of people I would imagine that are watching this, it's not like they're all in just such perfect health that they were, then what would be the point of listening to any of this?

Rock on, keep doing what you're doing. But if you're in really serious health issues, you really don't have a lot of time. The faster you make these moves, the better you're going to feel sooner.

And I think that's what this is all about. You do have to get tough with yourself, but it's in the best way possible. Don't make this seem like some sort of dreaded task that you have to do.

Get excited about this and really keep in your mind that, hey, when I do this, I know, I just have faith that there's going to be a much better life ahead of me.

I think if those things are not there and it says, oh God, I'll just do this. All right, I'll give it a try. My wife wants me to do this. I'll go ahead and do it.

You're probably not going to stick with anything. We all understand. No, you also just reminded me of two things. One, if you're stressed, you're gonna be craving sugar because your body thinks you need to run from a saber-toothed tiger.

And if you need quick energy, you're gonna crave sugar. So one, eat food when you're hungry as opposed to sugar. But the other thing, oh, I just forgot what I wanted to say.

Wait, the other thing is don't go to parties hungry. ever. And if I don't leave house without food, literally, I don't leave my house without at least two meals.

And we always get stopped in the airport because we have so much food. They're like, what are you worried about? I'm like, I'm worried about a delay. I can't eat anything.

Like guard your backside, right? Yeah. And don't go shopping when you're hungry as well. So all of these things have a lot to do with the way we think and we feel.

The way we think and feel has a lot to do with driving us to sugar. So that's a very important thing you're saying too. Yes, it's easy to just say, you know what, I got a great tip for you to cut down your sugar cravings.

Don't be so stressed out. But that's actually, that is the point. You should be taking more time in your day to figure out how I'm going to be my best gatekeeper.

You know, I use a work management flow software, Wendy, not to get too far off topic, but I'll lay out my day what I feel I can accomplish. If something has come up that has really captured my attention and has really taken a lot of my time and I'm going to get so stressed out about the other things I haven't accomplished.

No, no, no, no, no way. take those items, put them to tomorrow. The sky will still be above my head. Everybody I think gets my point. Managing stress is a cliche, but I think what we have to do is really get practical about what am I doing every day with the way I think and I feel Am I doing things that are in my best interest to keep myself feeling as happy as possible?

This is not some Pollyanna type idea. The idea behind this is if I'm really super happy doing things, Wendy, that are of great service to others, like spending time with you right now, I'm going to win.

For selfish reasons, I'm going to win, but I'm focusing my attention on helping others and doing the best I can and having a lot of happiness in that.

And also knowing with a lot of faith that if I don't finish everything today, it's okay. Say that to myself. That's the way I think. That will then transform into the way I feel every day.

Not so stressed out. living with more faith. I would imagine we spoke off camera that you had a lot of other people speak to this. I could go on and on about it, but I won't.

The point is the way we think habitually will then feed into the way we feel and the way those two things are have a direct impact on how much sugar we burn and then how much sugar we're going to need.

And so I think this is like you say, the devil Honestly, when we shed light on this, the devil disappears. The darkness is gone. There is no enemy to fight.

When you manage your days better by the way you think and you feel and the way you plan things and the decisions you make, and you really focus in on doing more, what you know deep in your heart and in your mind, intuitively, however you want to put it, You know exactly what you should be doing.

This is probably the biggest tip of all in reducing sugar cravings and being good to your liver and your kidneys. You know exactly what you need to do.

My sleep is off. I'm staying up too late at night, looking at mindless stuff on social media, or really grinding out those more those emails. I've got to get done at 11, 1130 at night.

But our regenerative time is 10pm to 2am. So hello, if I'm not in bed those hours, you know, I'm screwing myself, pardon my French, but The point is, all these things that we do, we know if we're right on the money, doing things well, or we're off.

And if we don't pay attention to the way we're thinking and feeling more and getting more aligned with what's going to make us think and feel so much better by the habits that we do, then we're never going to get over this sugar thing.

We're always going to be struggling with fatty liver disease. Over 100 million people are suffering with fatty liver disease in the United States alone.

You're talking way more than that worldwide, especially in the Western culture, from just poor decisions that are being made every day. kidney function is going to be breaking down as well.

And we all, I would guess, on this program, we all understand that the last thing that takes us out in this world, Wendy, for all of us, we can't escape it, is our kidneys will stop functioning.

And when our kidneys stop, game over. Right? So unless we get hit by an accident, you know, God forbid a car accident or a gunshot or something. But the point is, kidney function shuts down and all those poisons build up.

And that's what takes us out of this world. So taking better care of our liver and our kidney function all the days of our life, so important by how we think and we feel and do some of these habits really, really been valuable for me.

And I hope for a lot more people out there. Yeah, Jonathan, this has been amazing. And I think we've scratched the surface. We didn't even get to half the things we said we would talk about.

So it just really shows how much there is to dive into this. I know people are going to want to find you. What's the best way for them to get in touch, find you, follow you?

Just go to naturalhealth365.com. You can enter your first name and email address there. And you'll be a part of our newsletter community and learn a lot about the things we've talked about, plus so much more.

be able to interact with each other. This is amazing. Jonathan, thank you. Thank you for being part of the summit and for talking to me today. We'll close this out.

Thanks to the listeners for listening to another episode of the Environmental Toxicants Autoimmunity and Chronic Diseases Summit. Our guest today is Jonathan Landsman.

Thank you for being here. Thank you for tuning in to Doctor Talks. We hope today's episode has enlightened and inspired you on your path to optimal health.

Each day is a new opportunity to make choices that empower your well-being. For more insights and strategies, subscribe to our podcast and visit our website, www.doctortalks.com.

Stay connected, stay healthy, and join us next time on Doctor Talks. Real talks from real doctors on the issues that matter to you most.

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