Successfully Manage Your MS With Medicinal Mushrooms

Introduction and Background 0:00

Welcome, Nicole. I am so glad that you agreed to be part of this series. So if you will first go ahead and introduce yourself and then we'll get started. Great. So nice to be here today, Terry. My name's Doctor Nicole Apelian. I'm an herbalist. Scientists, an author, biologist, a survival consultant for television. Done some reality TV, mostly survival based on wilderness skills. Instructor Anna Amon and I have a Ph.D. in through Prescott College and anthropology and really focus on ethno botany.

And I'm the author of four books, including The Last Book of Herbal Remedies Our Reference Guide to Surviving Nature, The Foragers Guide to Wild Foods. And my latest coming out next month, which is holistic guide to Wellness Herbal Protocols for Common Ailments. I also have multiple sclerosis, which we'll talk about today. Yeah. And it was on the TV show alone where really the my healing journey got put into the world. Out to the world. And that sort of started my journey of sharing my story with others where I had kept it more private.

So, you know, actually by post-doc saw that and he said, you know, you ought to reach out to Dr. Apelian. I think you two had hit it off. And again, everyone who's listening, Dr. Nicole and I have just so much common background. We start out with our misdiagnosis with conventional approaches and despite conventional approaches, we did not do as well. And so I'm so glad that you dove in and became so knowledgeable. So let's let's talk just for a few moments about your personal story and how you came to then turn towards ethno botany and herbal medicine.

Great. You know, it's it's I always think it's so interesting how similar our stories are. Like you I when I was bedridden, actually, very quickly, I went from walking to a wheelchair very quickly. And my first diagnosis was back in 1999, early

MS Diagnosis and Healing Journey 2:25

actually early 2000, so over 20 or 23 years ago. And I lost my eyesight. I had a classic case of M.S. with Optic neuritis and very clear lesions on my MRI. So I was like, I was lucky in that it was very easy to I was very easily diagnosed. On the other hand, I was very easily diagnosed. And so with my weakness and loss of balance and extreme fatigue, tremors, pain, numbness, cognitive issues, I mean, everything went on a very slippery slope and I slid downhill extremely quickly so that very soon after my diagnosis and six months a year, I was using a cane very soon after that, I was wheelchair bound at night when I could use a cane during the day.

But those were actually rare days as I was often bedbound. And this continued. I followed my doctor's orders and I was 29, 30 years old. I was really scared and I followed what Mineralogist had to say. And unfortunately, those those drugs and drugs to contract drugs that end up getting older, being allergic to or had terrible side effects didn't work for me at all. So finally, I decided to take my health into my own hands and deep delve into peer reviewed literature, a lot of it out of Asia, on herbal medicine, diet and able to dip my toe into are you vetted?

Are you Veda? Which was the first really glimmer for me of changing my diet and my lifestyle. And that allowed me to once I shifted that diet and started feeling better and went off of my medications, I was able to deep dove into herbal medicine. And really, there's been so many things that have fed into my my schooling, I guess you'd say. And from a of course diet as we know it is number one in curbing inflammation. But vitamin Nicole, let's take just a moment at a real high level. What does that debt look like?

So for me, I follow any inflammatory diet. Sometimes I, I switch that to a ketogenic diet. I do intermittent fasting. I don't eat any gluten. I found out a good 20 years ago that gluten, what didn't work for me. And so I've been off that ever since, which has been a huge game changer for me because it also changes how much sugar I eat right me on my own breast and how inflammatory that is really not eating. Gluten cuts out so much sugar automatically that you don't have to think about it as much.

Think about it. You know, things are often breads and cupcakes. And then when you mentioned anti-inflammatory, what are the key elements that make a diet anti-inflammatory to you? So for me, just eating foods that don't cause inflammation or that curb inflammation. So I eat a lot of vegetables. Aida fats. I do. I do eat meat. I eat organic grass, fed green, organically clean, finished beef. I make sure that all of my oils are, you know, things like coconut oil and olive oil. I don't eat I don't have ones that that aren't healthy for me.

I eat a lot yet. A lot of vegetables on my plate, much like you do. I mean, the walls. The walls protocol is brilliant. It works so well. So I do follow a lot of what you offer. And, you know, I also good for my own personal well-being because I'm at the stage now where I can do that because I'm healthy now. Yeah. And what and when you're ketogenic, what does that ketogenic diet look like for you? So I don't do it very often, but when I do, it's really high vegetables, really high fat. I mean, obviously you need a lot of fat genic diet, but I do put a lot of coconut milk, coconut cream, things like that into my diet.

I do a lot of smoothies on a daily basis just to get enough of my my vitamins and, and all of the good things from fruit, etc.. So nothing that when I'm going to ketogenic diet, but I don't do that that often, I mostly stick to an anti-inflammatory diet. Does that seem to work best for me? And then let's talk about mushrooms. You are very keen on mushrooms and I want to hear your thoughts

Anti-Inflammatory Diet and Ketogenic Eating 6:32

about about mushrooms, which ones and how do we how do we use them? Yeah. So for me know mushrooms have been a game changer for me. So I went from really it was the thing that allowed me to go from feeling pretty good to allow me to move on to feeling great on a daily basis. So the four mushrooms that I personally take every day, and that's an a dual extracted form and I can talk about why that's important and I take them in a tincture form, which is simply an herbal extract that you take orally.

They're all immunomodulatory, they all are anti-inflammatory, they all curb inflammation, and they all have, depending on what they are, some sort of neuroprotective effect. Then they each have their own special, special description or things that they do medicinally. And I can talk about each of them, but the four that I take daily are reaching for two steps. Lion's mane really key for this in my opinion. And Turkey tail. And they all have really good scientific peer reviewed data behind them, which for me as a scientist has been super important to make sure that I'm taking things that do have scientific validity.

I think a lot of people think of herbal medicine as a sort of esoteric out there, alternative thing that doesn't really have science behind it. And the reality of it is that that's not true. It has huge science behind it. For example. Let me stop for a moment so everyone who's listening, I want you to know that there is a very robust evidence that even those that people who are eating more mushrooms in their diet have lower rates of anxiety, depression, cognitive decline, which is one of the reasons why I included that verse specifically in my diet plans.

Now back to you, Dr. Nicole. Excellent. Yes. So I do eat mushrooms in my daily diet. And because they are super important and they do help, there are a lot of those secondary effects of them, like depression and things like that that a lot of people do have. And I swear and I think everybody now is dealing with anxiety. So all of they all they really do cover all of that. But for me personally, Ricci both, of course, it's immunomodulatory and anti inflammatory and neuroprotective, but it also helps with fatigue, which is such an issue.

It helps with seizures if you're having issues with that or convulsions or restless leg syndrome. It helps with cognition. It's also all four of these mushrooms are antiviral. And as you know, with someone with an autoimmune illness, it's so key not to get sick because when you get sick, your immune system gets boost boosted and that can make your mood so much worse. So I do take things.

Medicinal Mushrooms and Daily Use 9:20

These are all also antiviral. So they do help with not getting sick on a daily basis, which is so key. Lion's Mane is the one that I think goes around so much and has become so popular now with people. Both look like people who microdosing and people who are, you know, issues or any sort of cognitive issues. Because not only is it immunomodulatory, you're really inflammatory. It also is inflammatory for your gut. And as we know, all the research coming out about gut health and your microbiome is so key.

It is extremely neuroprotective. It actually in vitro. It's been shown to help with myelin re genesis. They didn't think that was possible in the past and it stimulates nerve growth factor which is key for all of your especially if you have a nervous system disease. Now we see. You see a lot. Of folks using mushroom powders. And can you talk about mushroom powders versus mushroom tinctures and what's the difference? Most definitely. And I think this is so important. And, you know, people don't fortunately, they don't talk about this enough.

And I think it's it's so key. So many people use mushroom powders. And the number one thing with mushroom powders is a lot of people are taking them in their tea or their coffee in the morning. Now, there's nothing wrong with that. But the problem is, is that when you have if you're looking at the mushroom itself in order to extract the medicinal compounds, you need a double extraction. So what that means is some of the medicine, some of the biochemical compounds are soluble in water. So they do fine in tea, especially in beta glucan.

And some of them are soluble in alcohol. All the tried tropeano aids and the steroids. So if you're just taking it in tea or in coffee, you're missing half of the medicinal compounds. Secondly, a lot of people, if you're taking a pill, let's say a lot of people with Hamas and other autoimmune issues have real issues with leaky gut and digestive issues. So if you're taking something through your digestive tract you're in, you're not able to absorb it very well. You're also missing out. So what I really like about tinctures is that they're easy to swallow.

So that's a bonus. If you can't swallow pills very well, you take them, you take them orally, and so they go directly into your bloodstream. They say it takes around 4 minutes, which is very quick, so you don't have to go through the digestive process. And the other thing is that when you're they offer flexible dosing. So if your for example, if you feel you know, what you need, for example. So I take two dropper vials of each of my medicinal mushrooms daily. That's what I do. And that works extremely well for me.

And the and the double extraction allows me to access all the full spectrum of medicinal compounds, because why spend your money on medicinal mushrooms when you're not getting the full spectrum of medicinal compounds, you're really you're sort of wasting your money. And those trigger points are important so you can get a better therapeutic effect when you're taking them orally. Now, does it matter how the mushrooms are grown? Because I know some I see some that are gathered while I see some that are gathered that are grown in on a compressed grain. Logs and some that are grown on non-green logs.

Can you comment on that? Sure. And the answer to that question is yes and no. It's just so as long as they're being it's really hard. Let's say if people were only getting reishi from the wild, I do collect wild Ricci. But if if they are doing that, you're going to we're going to run out of wild RICCI. So I think it is important that they're grown and there are places that organically grow mushrooms. Now, for example, for my apothecary, we we test everything to make sure that the beta glucan level is high enough.

We test for, you know, any sort of issues with mushrooms start coming in. We make sure things are grown organically. I mean, all of that is extremely important. But I do think if you can gather them on your own, great in the wild, as long as you're getting them from a very, very clean area because mushrooms like lichens, they do absorb not as much as lichens, but they do absorb things, their sacrifice. So they're they're getting things from whatever they're grown on. So as thick as long as they're grown in a way that that is being tested and really overseen, it's okay to grow them, you know, in a facility.

I don't there's not a problem with that. Do you have any concerns about the facilities that grow them on a compressed oat log? Is that okay from your your point of view? You know, I need to research a little bit more into that. We don't use ones that are grown on compressed oats, but I think I think I need to I need to look into that a little bit more. I haven't looked. I know the mediums we grow them on are good. You know, I don't know about I haven't used compressed oat logs. I would imagine it would be okay because it's not that you're worried about things like gluten or things coming through or people that problem with oats because you know, the chemical composition of what they're grown is going to be changed.

But there is one thing that is important. You don't want something. For example, we mostly use just fruiting bodies for all of ours. What main thing you don't want is something that has so much of what it's grown on because a lot of mushrooms have been tested and what you're getting is you're just getting the grain or oat medium and you're actually not getting the mushroom itself. So that is very important if you're using things that are mycelium based, you know, her lion's mane, there's fermented mycelium is good, but for the rest, really fruiting bodies is all you need.

And because that's the way you're maximizing what you're getting in your tincture. So really do watch out for things that are that are mycelium based for reishi turkey tail and cordyceps because you don't want to miss out and basically just be taking grain. Okay. So, so we should clarify what, what are the fruiting body and mycelium for the audience? Could you explain? Sure. So the fruiting body is what comes out. So think of a tree and the roots. The roots are essentially the mycelium. It's what's underground.

And they don't see when you look at a mushroom.

Mushroom Tinctures, Fruiting Bodies, and Quality 15:30

Now, when a mushroom grows out of that and you know, it has its fruiting body, basically, it's sort of like when the tree of the tree above the thing or I guess a better thing would be when a when something flowers and puts out moss comes up or something. Flowers. Oh, that's the part above ground that you actually visually see. And that's the part that has spores and it's going to then reproduce that its purpose so that fruiting body for Ricci, for example, is what you want in your tincture. You don't need any of the other parts for that particular mushroom and you don't want you want to if you don't have all the grain that you're growing on because that's not going to help you.

That's not going to happen to make sure it's only the mushroom. So getting the fruiting body is reliably going to be helpful. The mycelium might might be helpful or really is. Helpful for most. Not that helpful. Except for lion's mane where fermented mycelium is now being shown to be helpful. Okay, now I don't know what fermented mycelium is, so you're going to have to educate me here. Sure. It's the it's mycelium that has been fermented. Right. So but you have to, again, make sure you're not getting a lot of the grain.

But if you're using the fruiting body across the board, that's a safe way to know that you're getting a good quality dual extracted mushroom mushroom product. Okay. Now you're and I love fermented foods, so maybe I'll have to check out this fermented mycelium. Is that a food or is that just a another nutritional supplement. Another nutritional supplement or a way to access lion's name? Yes. Okay. Okay, then I know you're an herbalist. Well, do you have any favorite herbs that support your healing journey?

You know, I do. Other than the former this non mushrooms that I take, I also use and they as I said, they're all antiviral. But I also take elderberry when I'm around the public. I live you know, I live really remotely. But when I'm around the public elderberry tincture I take because for two reasons. One, it shortens the duration of colds and flu, decreases inflammation, helps with a slew of things. It's also antioxidant. But the other thing is it's hugely antiviral. So I don't want to get sick.

If I get sick, it does shorten the duration. But in order to prevent getting sick, the elderberry really works well. It also has the trademark annoyance. You need an alcoholic extraction of or solid acid, which has been shown in animal models to prevent and repair neurons. So that is extremely important for people with M.S.. I also use my Eastern lemon tincture. It is. I made it as an antiviral, but it also has a great deal of Chinese skullcap in it. And Chinese skullcap has a couple of neuroprotective neuroprotective components to it.

Sample Beclin is one of them and woven in is the other. And they're not only antiviral against severe respiratory illness, but they also are anti-inflammatory and antioxidant. So those are there's a few other ingredients in that that helps things that stop viral replication, etc.. But those are the ones I take really on a daily basis for health. In those tinctures that you're taking. Nicole. There are tinctures that I'm taking. Yes, I really believe in tinctures. You know, supplements. I tend to take like turmeric, things like that.

I do take it. My gut is actually in good health now because I've worked on it so much like those I tend to take orally just because they're no tumor is really inexpensive to get orally and my. But for tinctures or for the other herbs, I take a tincture form. Now I grew up loving elderberry. We would make elderberry jam, we would make elderberry sirup. I'd put that over my throat, oh, pancakes. And we'd have an elderberry upside down cake that would make love to all of those things. I don't eat those kind of sirups or cakes now, but I've never thought about taking elderberry tinctures, so educate me.

And how would I, how would I use those? So what I do is I have a what I call my travel pack in my apothecary, and this is what I use when I travel or I'm around the public because I get with so much, so many illness that's going around at the moment, I don't want to get sick. So for me I have a like and called una as a spray and it's all in there all my travel pack or my warrior bundle. But the lunar spray I spray in my throat and it's hugely anti-viral.

Herbal Antivirals and Travel Protection 20:10

It's also antibacterial. So anything that's going to get in, you know, things get in through your openings. So I spray it. Microbes, Microsoft don't get sick. I do this on every plane ride, for example. I take my all purpose out. I put it up my nose so things don't get in and I put my fingers with it. And then I take my elderberry orally. And between those I have been traveling and I just got back from Egypt, but I travel a lot on planes. I used to get sick on planes and when I travel every single time and I don't anymore by using those there that protect us, if something does get in, it's going to take care of it.

So that's what I use when I'm around other people or traveling and it works brilliantly. Or if, you know, my kid comes home from school and there's an illness going around. You know, I'm thinking about, you know, the the recent literature identifying Epstein-Barr virus as one of the main triggers. And we know that there are 16 different viruses and bacteria that are associated with increased risk of later developing an autoimmune disease. You know, and the reality is, all of us, it's the very rare person that's not had at least one of those infections and probably multiple.

So I'm wondering if part of your antiviral protection might help because but Nicole, everyone is listening. We all have all these viruses and bacteria in our body. It's our immune cells that are keeping them under control. And as our immune cells are are more effective, we keep those viruses under better control. In my clinical practice, people's chronic autoimmune disease becomes less active. And I wonder if your antiviral support, nutrients and tinctures might help people get their persisting viral infections that are contributing to their autoimmune disease state under better control.

Yeah. I can't see why they wouldn't. It just intuitively makes sense. And the scientific data behind the antiviral properties of those particular herbs is extremely strong. You know, there's many, many years of scientific research behind it. So I imagine it would be a good idea. I know for me, you know, I feel great. It works really well. People don't wouldn't know. I have M.S. anymore, you know, unless I told them so or when on its own alone and let the world know. But, you know, it's it's I feel really good.

I know that the herbal the herbal supplements, example of medicinal mushrooms and the other the antivirals, they work well because the feedback we also get from our apothecary, not just the scientific data, but the stories, you know, you must get it. Come in. Right? Yeah. Right. So and I've been taking your mushroom fortress and I'm my fingers aren't now anymore. I no longer have tremors, you know, I'm feeling I actually my brain fog has lifted. You know, those sorts of stories make such a big difference personally in why I started my apothecary, which was originally just for me and then family and friends.

And then it slowly grew as people wondered what worked. And those stories are really what makes it all worthwhile, is knowing that we're helping people. So absolutely. Absolutely. So, so in your apothecary, why don't you tell us how people could find you and find your apothecary? Right. So it's very easy. It's called Nicole's Without an apostrophe, and ic0les Nicole's apothecary dot com. And remember that you can go to Nicole the pelion dot com and there's a direct link to the apothecary there and it Nicola Pelion dot com.

I have a blog that is searchable which is very helpful as I write

Apothecary, Resources, and Final Advice 24:15

a lot about different sorts of ailments and different sorts of herbs. So if you're dealing with, let's say, anxiety, you can type in anxiety and it will take you to articles that have scientific, all the scientific references behind it. Because again, like, you know, I'm a scientist and I really think it's important to not just be spouting things that other people have spouted first, you know, regurgitating what people say, but actually only really right out there that are scientifically based. So that blog, that searchable blog is really useful.

And I have a newsletter that people can subscribe to. It's twice a week and it's very informative. And I talk not only about M.S., I talk about all sorts of diseases. I talk about how do you live a lifestyle, you know, that allows you to become well, because that's also important. Mindfulness, gratitude, time in nature. All of these things are really a holistic way to stay well and are super important. So I do talk about those and, you know, sleep issues and all the sorts of things that might be anyone might be going through and the scientific data behind what works, not just herbs, they talk about those, but everything so that people can get a holistic overview of what's important.

For the listeners. If you want to give them one step, one action step that they could take, what would that be? You know, it varies for things, but I always say, you know, your diet and your gut really take that first step and really be good to yourself and watch what you eat. Because what you take in is what what you know, it was what your body needs, right? So food really is medicine. So that would be my number one would be your diet. Absolutely. Remember, the food we eat will become the body we have tomorrow.

So eat well. So you're going to have a much better, healthier, more vital body. Nicole, this has been wonderful. I always love our conversations and I look forward to coming out and doing some mushrooms with you. Oh, I look forward to that, too, Terry. That would be wonderful. I love when we connect and I'm so grateful to have been here today. And as always, it is a huge pleasure. And thank you for all you do in the world. And the impact that you had through your research, because it's really important and you've helped tens of thousands, I'm sure, more of the people.

Thank you.