The 4 Step Process To Resolve Chronic Fatigue Naturally

Introduction and Speaker Background 0:00

Hello, everyone. Welcome back to reversing Hashimoto's and Thyroid Disorder Summit. I'm your show host, Doctor Anshul Gupta, and I'm really excited about our speaker today. He is a wealth of information, especially if you're dealing with chronic fatigue and long Covid syndrome associated with Hashimoto's entero disorder. He is the man. Lots of research, lots of great information. So I am really excited about a discussion today. But let me introduce him first before we get started. So Doctor Evan Hirsch, also known as energy MD, is a world renowned fatigue expert, bestselling author, and professional speaker.

He is a creator of the energy MD method, the science backed and clinically proven four step process to resolving chronic fatigue chronic Fatigue Syndrome long Covid naturally, through his bestselling book, podcast, and 100% online practice, he has helped thousands of people around the world. He has been featured on TV, podcasts and summits, and when he's not at the office, you can find him singing musicals, dancing hip hop and playing basketball with his family doctor. Hersch, welcome over here.

Doctor Gupta, thank you so much for having me on. Absolutely. I'm really, really excited about our discussion today. You know, especially, like, you know, chronic fatigue syndrome was a thing with Hashimoto's. But with this Covid coming in, a lot of people with Hashimoto's and bio disorders are coming with long Covid. So why don't we talk about like, you know, is there a link, you know, between long Covid and Hashimoto's disease and what that link could be? Absolutely. There was actually a meta study done, which is a combination of, about seven studies that looked at over 1200 individuals who had long Covid, and they found that, somewhere between 13 and 64%, which is quite a broad range.

Of those people had had thyroid issues. And a lot of this has to do with the fact that when Covid gets in the body, it triggers autoimmunity and that autoimmunity can show up in different places in the body. So if it attacks the thyroid, you get Hashimoto's. If it attacks the joints, you get rheumatoid arthritis, it attacks the skin. You can get lupus or other connective tissue diseases. So it really just depends on where the autoimmunity is, is manifesting in the body. Absolutely. So that's great.

And even before Covid, you know lot majority of the Hashimoto's patients will have this symptom of fatigue. And so obviously one of the reasons is low thyroid hormone. But you and me know it goes beyond that. So talk a little bit about various reasons that Hashimoto's

Long COVID and Hashimoto's Connection 2:51

patients will get chronic fatigue. Absolutely. So in order to have to make enough energy, you really have to have your hormones working correctly, especially your adrenal gland, which sits on top of the kidney and produces, cortisol, which is our main get up and go hormone that helps us wake up at the right time and go to sleep at the right time. Thyroid this the other sex hormones like estrogen, progesterone and testosterone and then also the mitochondria. So the mitochondria makes about 70 to 90% of our energy and is found in every cell in the body except for red blood cells.

So all of those need to be working really well. And then there's also some different vitamins and minerals that are important. But what ends up happening is that there is there are a number of causes that can end up compromising these systems and their production of energy. So if you need those systems in order to make energy, what ends up happening that causes you to have fatigue or low energy? And it's really what I call the toxic five. These are the root root causes. And so this is a combination of heavy metals chemicals molds infections and nervous system dysfunction.

So these are all toxins that have essentially built up in the body over time that end up compromising the other causes that I mentioned. The adrenal gland, the thyroid, the the sex hormones, the mitochondria, vitamins and minerals. So consequently, you know, our approach is really all about addressing the toxic five and figuring out the toxic five. In the people who we see. So is that particularly the reason that, you know, even though a lot of people are taking thyroid hormone replacement, but still they don't see much improvement in their energy, so are these toxic five the main reason which is not being addressed.

And that's the reason they're still feeling fatigued. That is definitely one of them. So when we look at Hashimoto's, it's two conditions as you know better than I. So it's this issue where you have an autoimmunity to the thyroid, where the immune system is attacking the thyroid, breaking off pieces of the thyroid. And then there's the lack of thyroid that is being produced.

Why Hashimoto's Causes Chronic Fatigue 5:07

Right. So those are the two different components. And so when you replace thyroid it's more than just thyroid because, you know, the hormones are a three legged stool. So it's the adrenals, it's the thyroid. And then it's the sex hormones. And if one of those hormones steps out of this dance, this hormone dance, it leaves the other two holding the bag per se, or they're compromised. And so consequently, if you're having a thyroid issue or if you have the toxic five in your body, your adrenals are going to be compromised already.

And then if the adrenals are compromised, then the thyroid and the sex hormones are also compromised. So sometimes when we give somebody thyroid and we ramp it up to their ideal dose and they're still not feeling better, sometimes it's because there's one of these other hormones that needs to be addressed, right? The adrenals need to be supported, or the sex hormones need to be supported. And then when we look at the autoimmune component, you know, we talked about how the immune system is breaking off pieces of the thyroid until eventually if you lived long enough, you wouldn't have a thyroid left.

But generally we, it's it's a slow enough rate where we generally die before we have complete destruction of our thyroid. But when we're looking at that, the immune systems activation and the autoimmunity that's caused by the toxic five. So, so if you're taking thyroid, but essentially your, your thyroid, hormone is being destroyed by the immune system, you're never going to be able to feel 100%, or you're never going to be able to get entirely well. And this is generally the process of Hashimoto's is that you go to see your practitioner and they increase your thyroid hormone because you have worsening thyroid symptoms or your labs get worse, and then you're good for about maybe six months to a year.

And then you start to get your low thyroid symptoms back again. And then you have to go back and you increase your thyroid dose. And that's the fact that the immune system is attacking the thyroid. Right? So if we want to stop that process of the immune system, attacking the thyroid so that you don't have that cycle, you have to address the toxic five. Absolutely. So most people have this question, you know, like how do they know which of these toxic five they have? All of they have all of the other.

So do you generally do testing for these things? That's what you recommend, like advanced functional medicine tests or basically you rely on a questionnaire, you know, like what is your process. So I used to do a lot of testing. And what I found after about a decade of helping people with chronic fatigue, chronic fatigue syndrome, and now long Covid, the last couple of years, is that all the people that I see have all those causes, all toxic? Five so the heavy metals, chemicals, molds, infections and nervous system dysfunction.

And so it's not a question of if they have each of those. It's more a question of how much of each of those do you have. But the reality is when it comes to treatment is that we need to address all of those. And it's not more expensive. It actually saves you time in the long run, because we're making sure that we're leaving no stone unturned. Right. Because the last thing we want is to be working with a practitioner for a period of time, you know, let's say a year. And then the practitioner is like, oh, you know what?

We should have been treating you for mold all this time, right? So in the people that I see, in order to get chronic fatigue syndrome or long Covid, you kind of have to have all of these toxins built up in the body. And when you do the testing, testing is not 100%. A lot of this testing is looking at either, in the blood or in the urine. And when we're looking at like heavy metals, chemicals and molds, those are mainly urine tests, but they're really excretion tests. So they're looking at your body's ability to excrete.

But when you have chronic fatigue or you have long Covid, your ability to excrete things out of your body are compromised. So generally, if I were to do testing, if somebody came into my program and let's say I tested them for urinary mycotoxins, mold, toxins, I may not have anything show up. But six months into the program, when we've opened up the exit pathways and gone through my four step process, then all of a sudden they're excreting a lot more,

Testing the Toxic Five Root Causes 9:17

and then you can see a lot more in the urine. But if we just based our treatment on that first test, then we would have been like, oh, you know what? You don't have mold. I'm not going to treat you for it. So that's that's how I navigate that. The other important thing to note is that there's kind of like a toxic matrix, which is like a combination of all of these, and it's existing in the body. And as you start to remove one of these things, some of the other things are opened up. It's kind of like a ball.

And so you start to remove heavy metals and molds, and infections and chemicals are released more into the body. So you want to make sure that you have things on board, supplements on board to bind these up so that you can address them when they get released into the body. Absolutely. So those are like point on target because a lot of people, you know, because these testing are available everywhere. And, you know, people hear on internet that you should be tested for mold or like heavy metals. And then when they do the testing, they don't see anything.

And they think, you know, like those are not the root causes. And you're absolutely like, you know, right on the target that maybe the pathways are not opened up. Maybe they have genetic snips which kind of prevent them from releasing those toxins. So those are all things needs to be taken into account. So thank you for kind of, you know, shedding some light on the testing methods over here. So obviously, like, you know, now people who like to know like, okay, well you have the problem. You have these all of these toxicities.

So what can they do now. You know, what is the step four step process that you talk about that you know can get people better. So the four step process is something I call the energy MD method. And I've been working on it for the last decade. And its goal is to remove the toxic five. And that happens in step four. And so the first step is to figure out the causes that people have besides the toxic five. So it's the toxic five. But also there's adrenal issues and mitochondrial issues and thyroid issues.

So many people have Hashimoto's. There's sex hormone issues, vitamins and minerals and then lifestyle habits. Not enough good food, not enough good water, not enough good sleep, not enough good movement. So that's what we do in step one. And then in step two we start replacing the deficiencies. So even though this process is all about the toxins, we have to prepare the body appropriately. So we want to make the body more robust. We want to increase the body's resilience and as well as mental and emotional resilience.

So we start supporting what I call the big three, which is the adrenals and the mitochondria and the thyroid. And we start off with the adrenals. And then because that's going to and when we're looking at thyroid, that's going to help the thyroid work better. And then the mitochondria will start supporting that. And that helps to get thyroid into the cells. And so oftentimes that will those two will naturally improve thyroid function. And then we have people do a subjective thyroid ramp up where we actually have them take a supplement to improve thyroid conversion from T4 to T3.

And then we do a a subjective thyroid ramp up where we have people increase every two weeks until they get hypothyroid, and then they back off a little bit. And then we know, kind of like what their ideal thyroid doses because as you know, and as you teach, optimizing thyroid is good for everything. It's like the best cholesterol lowering, blood pressure lowering, inflammation lowering, you know, energy increasing component out there. Right? It just everything works better in the body. So we optimize those things, optimize the lifestyle habits, replace any other deficiencies that are present in step two.

And then in step three we open up the exit pathways. So these are our excretion pathways. These are the way we get toxins out of the body. So this is the liver and the kidneys and the lymph which is the garbage

The Energy MD Four-Step Healing Process 13:11

system of the body and the neural lymph which is the garbage system in the brain and the gallbladder and biliary system and the intestines. So we want to make sure that all those pathways are open, so that when we go into step four and we start removing the heavy metals and the chemicals and the molds and the infections and retraining the nervous system dysfunction, that those toxins actually have a place to go in order to be able to get out of the body. So people who've had problems with detoxification before, where they're like, you know, I tried to do this and I felt lousy afterwards.

It's because you didn't spend enough time in step three. So you have to make sure those pathways are open in order to start removing the toxins. And I think of it as kind of like a funnel. So, you know, when you're dumping toxins into this funnel is you're trying to get rid of them. The bottom of the funnel has to be open. And so oftentimes we're pivoting back and forth. We use a lot of tinctures. So we're ramping up one drop at a time. You feel worse on a on a drop. Then that means we have to go back to step three and just increase, you know, something that you're taking for liver or kidney support for the most part.

And then all of a sudden you can continue to tolerate the treatment and the ramp up as we're removing the toxins out of the body. So it's a little bit of a of a dance. But, you know, that's why you hire a specialist like me or like Doctor Gupta, so that you can make sure that you get there and you don't have to waste time, energy and money. You know, where it can take you 5 or 10 years to get to where you want to go. But that's why you you hire a specialist, right? If you're going to fix your car, you don't take it to your piano player, right?

It's the same thing with medicine. Absolutely. So I think those are like so great points. I'm sure like, you know, people are interested in knowing more and, you know, they're intrigued by this complex phenomenon. So when you talk about like opening of these detox channels, are you mainly using supplements for doing it or there are other natural ways or things that you know, people can do on their own to maybe open up or optimize these detox channels? So it's both. And, you know, I'm 100% online now, so everything that I do is natural.

It's all herbal vitamins and minerals and lifestyle habits. And so there is, you know, there's some lymph points that you can do. You can tap on the different points, and rub on those points in order to start to open the lymph pathways in the body. Drinking three liters of really good clean water a day is incredibly important as part of this process. So that's generally more water than people are used to consuming. Eating a clean diet is incredibly helpful for decreasing inflammation. So I just I generally recommend a paleo type diet.

It's more about what you're avoiding, like avoiding gluten and dairy and sugar and alcohol and processed foods. Those are kind of the big ones that I see that are most important. So there's those and then there's the supplements. You know, whether it's different herbs or different vitamins or nutraceuticals in order to open those different pathways. But as always, you know, the goal is to remove these toxins at a rate that people's body can tolerate, you know? So for people who are more sensitive, you know, it's really important you just go slower, you know?

And so we're just listening to the body and moving at a rate that the body can tolerate. Absolutely. I mean, you know, the first thing is you said that a lot of times you start working with the adrenals. And I think the adrenals a lot of times do not get the limelight they should be getting, especially in terms of the energy fatigue, brain fog and issues to shed a little bit more light about the adrenals, why adrenals and what you know, how they can cause this fatigue and maybe some tips that you have that you know, people who can work on the Retinols now.

So the adrenal gland is a little small triangular gland sits on top of the kidneys, produces cortisol, among other hormones. But its main function is to manage stress in the body. And so when you have the toxic five in the body, it is stressful, okay. And there's inflammation. You know, when you have anything in the body that's not supposed to be there, the immune system's whole job is to remove things from the body that's not supposed to be there. So the immune system sees these things. It tries to go after it.

If it's hidden in a compartment, like in tissues and organs and stuff like that, it can't get it. The immune system gets stuck in an inflammatory position. Okay. So it's just constantly putting out immune cells to try to get rid of these toxins. And it can't okay. Our main anti-inflammatory is cortisol. You've probably heard of cortisone or prednisone. These are commercial ways or medications that have been adapted from our body's natural cortisol. So cortisol is is managing stress in the body and it's our main anti-inflammatory.

So when you have these toxins in your body you have all this inflammation. The adrenals are constantly putting out cortisol until they run out of cortisol. Well, it turns out that cortisol not only puts out the fire from the inflammation, but it also increases our energy, increases our metabolic rate, manages the other hormones. It's considered the sentient gland because it manages the thyroid as well as the sex hormones. Right. So as the adrenals goes, so goes, so go the other hormones. So really important to see, you know, that if you're wasting your adrenals from chronic stress, from either abuse or nervous system dysfunction,

Opening Detox Pathways Naturally 18:38

whether it's mental, emotional, you know, like having trauma or whether it's physical, like having these toxins that's going to end up draining the adrenals, compromising the hormones. And then consequently, your energy is going to be lower. And then all the other things that cortisol does. And so cortisol also manages insulin, which manages your blood sugars. So your blood sugars are going to be higher. So for people who are listening to this we're like I have a perfect diet, but I'm pre-diabetic.

What is going on? It's because your cortisol is off. You've got these toxic five, etc., and you're not able to manage your blood sugars accordingly. And then cortisol also manages the immune system like we're talking about decreasing the inflammation. And then it also plays a huge role in energy. So some of the tips that you can do for your adrenals are going to be to really pay attention to where your energy's at, and to really work on your lifestyle habits. And so if you do need to take a nap, take a nap, you know, you don't want it to compromise kind of your sleep wake cycle.

But in the middle of the day, if you want to lie down, getting horizontal can be incredibly helpful because the adrenals also manage your blood sugar. They produce something called aldosterone that causes you to reabsorb salt and increases the blood flow to your brain. Oftentimes when you feel tired, it's because you don't have enough blood flow going to the brain. And so you need to lie down. And so just 15 minutes in the middle of the day can be helpful. Another thing that you can do is you can start putting salt in your water.

So putting salt in your water takes over some of that production where the adrenal gland hasn't been able to produce the salt from the aldosterone. And so adding in the salt can be incredibly supportive for you. And then and that goes along with drinking the three liters of water or drinking more water because you're essentially you're wasting a lot of your water. You're probably peeing a lot when your adrenal is not compromised, when your genes are compromised. If you feel like you're going from a sitting position to a standing position, you get lightheaded.

That's orthostatic hypotension. Your blood pressure, once again, is not getting to the brain. This can also be supported by adding in the salt into the water. So those are just some techniques. And then you know other things include making sure that you're going to bed at a at a reasonable hour. I like I recommend around 10:00 and and waking up going to sleep and waking up the same time every day. That's incredibly supportive for your adrenals. I know that if you have adrenal issues, you have more energy into the evening.

So you're like, gosh, I'm just getting started at 10:00. Don't you can't do this to me. But it's going to be incredibly helpful for you and it'll end up as you support the adrenals in the morning and the thyroid in the mitochondria. You'll recreate the circadian rhythm so your sleep will end up getting better. And you can go to bed at a more reasonable time. The other thing is making sure your diet is clean. That's going to help decrease stress on the body as well, and then figuring out your Goldilocks dose of movement.

So this is the ideal dose of movement or exercise that doesn't make you feel worse, right?

Supporting the Adrenals for Energy 21:38

There's something called post exertional malaise, which is generally caused by a dysfunctional adrenal gland. And that's basically when you exert yourself, you get more tired. So you want to make sure that you're moving as much as you can without getting more tired, because that's just stressing out your adrenals and your other systems. Absolutely. I think that is golden nuggets that you have shared with people about so many different tips that they can follow and should actually, on a daily basis.

So that was really great. So from adrenals, let's move on to mitochondria, because there is another important point that you brought up that mitochondria is also affected in Hashimoto's and chronic fatigue syndrome. And that is not working. So tell us a little bit about mitochondria why that is being affected. And again what people can do to improve the mitochondrial health. Also. So mitochondria is found in every cell in the body except for red blood cells. And it produces somewhere between 70 and 90% of our ATP or our energy.

And it gets damaged by the toxic five. So and some of the roles that we've realized lately in studies the last decade or so is we didn't realize that the mitochondria also helps to regulate the immune system. So it's an immune modulator. And then we also didn't realize that it helps to it helps with the absorption of hormones into the cells. So it's really essential for a function. And so the root cause of the mitochondrial issues are the toxic five. They're all damaging the mitochondria causing it to to leak and not to produce the energy that it needs to.

Whether it's an infection that comes in, takes over production of the energy mechanisms in the cell, or whether it's actually damaged by the heavy metals, the chemicals, the mold, the infections, and then nervous system dysfunction. All those things can damage the mitochondria. So we do want to replace the mitochondria with some nutrients CoQ10, acetyl l-carnitine D ribose. All those can be supportive, but it's really about removing the toxic five. So you know that's that's the end goal. But some of the things that you can do on a daily basis include things like cold therapy.

So at the end of every shower that I take, I turn it to cold. I take lots of deep breaths because it's really uncomfortable. But that can help you build resilience and that can help to strengthen the mitochondria. So sometimes on the top of the head, my head has more space, more area for this to get right onto the scalp and maybe some other people since I'm almost bald. But you can put it on there for as long as you can tolerate sometimes, couple of seconds to start, but then working up to 30s. So that can be really helpful for the mitochondria and then really all the other lifestyle habits that I mentioned before, if you're not doing those things, definitely work on those because they will help the mitochondria, rejuvenate as well.

But the end goal is going to be removing the toxic five. And, you know, we haven't talked a lot about the nervous system dysfunction. But retraining your nervous system is incredibly helpful in all of these conditions, especially, what we're seeing right now with chronic fatigue syndrome and chronic fatigue and long Covid. And so make sure that you're doing that. And that can also be really supportive for the mitochondria. Absolutely. And that was actually my next topic that I will talk about, you know, in terms of neuroinflammation and reentering the nervous system because, you know, everybody's kind of, you know, pointing towards that, that is one of the very key important factor to improving your fatigue, especially in the long Covid, like, you know, patients.

So tell us a little bit about neuroinflammation. And what do you mean by this. You know, neuro retraining that we're talking about. Yeah. So nervous system dysfunction when I'm referring to that I'm talking about how the the autonomic nervous system ends up becoming dysfunctional. And you can have central nervous system components too. But the autonomic nervous system has two components to it the sympathetic and the parasympathetic. Sympathetic is fight or flight or freeze. And the parasympathetic is rest and digest essentially.

So right now, as I'm giving this, presentation or having this talk with you, I'm sympathetically stimulated. I'm on, I've got blood flowing and I'm, I'm thinking a lot and I'm, you know, working on, you know, trying to convey all this information. And that's the way that we exist most of the time in society. You know, from the moment that we wake up, we have lots of responsibilities, right? If you have had any sort of trauma, whether it's mental, emotional,

Mitochondrial Health and Energy Production 26:30

some sort of significant abuse, or if you've seen if you're if at some point in your life you learned or you felt like the, the world was an unsafe place to be, then that will also put you more in a sympathetic or hypervigilant state where you're like on all the time, eventually. And that incorporates in with the adrenals and the big three, the mitochondria. The thyroid is because that causes all of those, hormones to be producing their hormones at a, at a higher rate. So because, you know, I talked about the adrenals managing stress and cortisol and consequently so if you have had abuse or these nervous system, different stimulations and you're existing in that response, you're going to drain your hormones as well.

So that is that's part of that whole picture with the with the nervous system dysfunction. Interestingly enough, you can also have physical components that will cause nervous system dysfunction, that will put you chronically in a sympathetic state. And that's the other toxic for so heavy metals chemicals molds and infection. Each one of those can also put you into a chronically sympathetic state. So what ends up happening then is that you cannot heal. You cannot heal unless you're in a parasympathetic state, which is rest and digest.

This is why a lot of nervous system practices are to move you into that. So it's taking deep breaths, right. You've heard take deep breaths when you're anxious. What this does is this engages your parasympathetic nervous system. You've heard of vagus nerve stimulators. The vagus nerve runs through the entire body for the most part, and it is the main nerve in the parasympathetic nervous system. There's other things that can kind of stimulate acetylcholine, which is the main neurotransmitter in the, parasympathetic nervous system.

But there's there's besides the breath work, there's gargling and humming and, poly vagal theory and a number of other components in a number of other programs out there that can be supportive for moving people into a direction of nervous system retraining, getting them back into their parasympathetic okay. And everything. What I've found, it's been really interesting, especially for people who have mast cell activation syndrome. And, and these and chronic fatigue syndrome and long Covid, it's become so much of a bigger part of our practice that we actually

Nervous System Retraining and Neuroinflammation 28:58

now have a practice group, nervous system retraining practice group. So it's not like one of those other trainings out there where if you want to go deeper, whether it's biology of trauma with a pig in or, or the Gupta program or primal Trust or some of those, if you want to go deeper, that's great. This is for the people who are going through a program, who want to have access to something that's a little bit more basic and do these practices, and because what we're seeing is that nervous system dysfunction is sometimes 10% of somebody's issue and sometimes 90%, and we don't know until they start working on it.

But magic happens, you know. And so I'm always up for including everything, you know, whenever, you know, by if they say by your patients and by your clients, you'll be taught. Right. So when I see somebody come in and have really good success with something, I start examining it and I start applying it, and I start testing it and seeing. And this is one of those things where, you know, we just incorporated it just in the last couple of months into our program. But it's like the last six months or so where I've really been seeing this and really started incorporating it into more into everything that we do.

And absolutely, I think this is so important, you know, aspect, you know, that we just kind of in the last couple of years that, you know, we all have been looking into this things of retraining the autonomic system. And I think same with our practice that we need to start recommending, you know, we don't have a group at this point of time, but we are recommending other programs, you know, that you all mentioned and people see phenomenal results. So absolutely, very, very important thing, that I think each and every person should be working on because that, you know, in the end, it pays off really well.

So I'm glad that, you know, you have a group which you will can join because I think a lot of people are lost because some of these programs tell them what to do, but sometimes they're not very clear in terms of how to do it. Exactly. And I think doing it with the with the person or with the group, I think that helps them a lot of making sure that, you know, they're doing it correctly. So I think that group idea is really good. Thank you. So good. So we spoke about a whole bunch of things. And obviously we can keep talking about a whole lot more things because it is this is such an interesting and in-depth topic.

But any of the things that you want to share with people that you know, which we have not shared and that would be very big game changer for them? Well, I think a lot of people listening to this probably have done a lot of things, and they've seen a lot of practitioners and they've addressed a lot of they've taken a lot of supplements, and I want to give them some hope. I want to give them some encouragement, you know, because you will get there. You just have to keep you just have to keep going.

You know, the only people who don't succeed, in my experience, are people who don't address their toxic five. Right. So I would encourage you, you know, if you if you have chronic fatigue or long Covid, reach out, we can get on a free call and see if we're a good fit to work together. If you have Hashimoto's, reach out and work with Doctor Gupta, but get help and keep working towards this and make sure you're focused on the prize, that you're focused on those toxic five. Because I have never met anybody who is who has addressed their toxic five completely and didn't resolve their symptoms, they're that important.

So focus on those. And I have no doubt that you will get there. I think that's a very big statement, you know, from a person coming from you

Final Advice and Where to Learn More 32:28

that, you know, you've not seen a single person who will address those 4 to 5 and not getting better. So now, people, you have heard it, if you have fatigue, if you have low energy, then you can get better. So don't stop from where you are. You know that you can work with him and he can definitely get you better. So then the next question is that where can people find more information about you and where they can find you? So I have an energy MD method.com. And like I said you can get on there. We're we're putting up a brand new masterclass that we've just completed so you can learn all about, this process that we take people through.

And then we have a free call where you can get on where, we'll have a conversation to see what's missing from what you've been doing. And if I can help you. Great. And we can talk about what that looks like and what we're offering. But if I feel like I can't help you or we're not a good fit, then I'll tell you that as well. So, energy and method.com. Absolutely. We will have all this information in the description. So please check it out and then go, you know, get your yourself evaluated for this free valuation call so that you know exactly where is your problem and how you can get better.

So, Doctor Hirsch, again, thank you so much for coming over here and sharing this great information. We really thank you. Thanks so much for having me on. Absolutely. Thank you again, everybody. This is it for today. Thank you so much, Joe. Bye.