The Anti-Inflammatory Power of Peptides BPC-157 and TB-4 Frag

Summit Introduction and Peptide Overview 0:00

It's so easy to, so many people can benefit from it, especially people, chiropractors or other practitioners that have patients that are coming in generally in pain. I tell people do your patients have acute inflammation, do they have chronic inflammation? Well, yes, well, then more likely than not, they can be recommended BPC. This is Doctor Talks. Welcome back to the Conquering Chronic Inflammation Summit. I'm your host, Dr. David Jockers, and today's topic is all about the power of peptides, these unique compounds with remarkable healing potential.

They're really incredible. In particular, we're gonna do a deep dive on two of the most popular peptides out there, BPC 157 as well as TB4 FRAG. You're going to learn about these and how, what they offer to the body. We're gonna talk about the Wolverine stack for remarkable healing and regenerative capacity. These are things that I personally use to help keep inflammation under control. In fact, I started using peptides when I tore my distal bicep tendon and I credit it with really helping heal and helping me recover faster from that injury and i have full strength and capacity from it even though i didn't choose to get surgery so These things really work.

My guest is Dr. Rob Bello. He is the founder and CEO of BioThrive Peptides. he's been a chiropractor and clinician for approaching two decades. In fact, I went to school with him, chriopractic school, with them 20 years ago. And he is an expert when it comes to BPC 157 and TB4 FRAG. They've become an essential part of his recovery regimen. As a clinician, he immediately saw the implications of these miraculous compounds in his practice to assist helping athletes and non-athletes recover from a range of tough to treat issues that he encountered on a daily basis.

You can find his website biothrive.us. So if you're interested in learning more about peptides, check out biotherive. us.

Rob Bello's Peptide Origin Story 2:12

And let's go into the interview. Well, Dr. Rob Bello and I go back actually 20 years ago to chiropractic college when we were in school together. So it's good to reconnect with Rob and he reached out to me about a year ago or so. And I had started using BPC 157 actually to help to heal from a ruptured distal bicep tendon. I actually tore my biceps tendon in March of 2024 and decided not to get surgery, even though that was recommended. And did a whole bunch of natural things including things like red light therapy and soft wave TRT.

And this is when I was introduced to peptides. Another clinician said you should use peptide. You should look at BPC 157 and so I started using that and I credit it with helping improve my recovery process and then Rob reached out to me and said hey I'm manufacturing this product and started this company BioThrive and looked at you know, the great stuff that he was doing and I decided this is the product I want to start using. And I've definitely noticed a difference just in my recovery from exercise, my overall inflammatory load, give it to my wife as well, just feel more rejuvenated with it.

So really, really great product. I'm excited about this interview. Dr. Rob, let's talk about how you got involved with peptides. Thank you, Dave. Great to reconnect with you. It's been exciting to be able to connect with a lot of old colleagues from school and really Exciting to see what everybody's been doing and going in their different directions and that we can all reunite and start working together has been great. So I got introduced to BPC about a decade ago. I've done some competitive powerlifting.

And I kind of found out about it from the gym and the Jim bros, you know, I'm half Jim bro and I am half clinician. So some of the powerlifting teammates of mine introduced me to it. And my, when I saw the results and use it myself, my clinician brain just exploded. I just, like, couldn't believe that. what it turned around in such a short amount of time where, you know, I had been doing, my chiropractic practice has evolved as my athletic performance requirements have evolved, as well. You know I started as an upper cervical doctor, and I still do upper-cervical.

And then I realized that as a athlete I needed different types of treatments, so I start getting into more soft tissue treatments. you know, ART and Graston and dry needling and all these things that really helped me out. And the peptides were something that were like nothing else. That was really exciting for me. But at the same time, as a clinician, at that point, they were only available injectable. As a chiropractor, it's not in my scope of practice. I don't have the medical side to the business.

It really wasn't an option for me. I couldn't really recommend it to people. You know, promote it. So I sort of, you know. Spoke about it two friends in small circles, but couldn' use it clinically. And then I had a friend from chiropractic school, another friend who was telling me about the results he was getting with an oral product. As my, having that Jimbrose side to me, I was like, well, the injectable has got to be better, right? the oral, you know, I inject into the site and all of the same misconceptions that I deal with on a daily basis answering questions.

I just I couldn't wrap my head around an oral being as effective until we tried it. And it was it, was impressive. It was as if not better because, at that point, we're ordering from websites and the quality is a little dubious at times. And one time you get a good product and another time, you don't. Now, sitting behind the curtain, I know all the reasons for that. This was just lock solid. We had a great raw product source. It was a clinician-owned company. Everything that they did from start to finish was focused on patient outcomes and patient safety.

That's where I sort of cut my teeth in. We've really continued that edict in our practices. In the peptide world, peptides are so hot right now. Just from this conversation, I'm going to have five to 10 promos on my social media about BPC. A lot of these companies are marketing companies, they're profit-centered companies. a clinician-owned, operated, and curated product for an optimal patient experience for all sorts of variations of patients that we see in the office. There are autoimmune patients, very sensitive patients.

I can't tolerate any nonsense. So products have to be clean. They have be potent. And those are our main focuses. Since we focus on that, it's actually been sort of a a differentiator for us because people try our product and they've tried another product, and we're like, wow, yours really is working very differently. And it's really because we have the amount of product in the actual pill. We've actually contracted with a manufacturer to have 10% to 20% more product into the pill, so these are potent, very clean products.

BPC-157 Benefits and Healing Mechanisms 7:48

It's been quite a roller coaster. once we got the ability to promote with the oral version, it's just, you know, is really lit a fire underneath me. I went from distributing another product to then being out there and getting all the pieces together to produce my own product and have a hand in the start to finish. And it has been growing every day. So it is It's been a real blessing for me, my patients, family, and my colleagues. So it's—yeah, it—that's kind of the origin story. Dr. Justin Marchegiani Yeah, that's great, Rob.

And let's talk about BPC157, body protective compound 157. It is one of most commonly used peptides in the peptide world. There are so many different types of peptids. Let's about talk BTC15 7, you know, basically what it is and all the different benefits it has. Absolutely. So, yeah, we call it the, you know, and that's from, a Dr. Seeds. Dr Seed is a big peptide expert and he's spoken to the Croatians that created BPC 30 years ago. And he was quoting the chemists that create it and said, this is the king of the peptides.

experience it really is. It's just so ubiquitous. So many people can benefit from it, especially chiropractors or other practitioners that have patients that are coming in generally in pain, and there's a level of inflammation. I tell people, do your patients have acute inflammation? Do they have chronic inflammation, well, yes, then more likely than not, they can be recommended BPC. And in general, I think that's probably one of the biggest effects that we get from BTC is that they are systemic anti-inflammatory.

Inflammation is behind so many different pathological and deleterious processes that if we can reduce the systemic inflammatory load, we can help out so many things. I mean, I usually am talking about the gut issues, the ligament tendons, soft tissue healing, but we've seen so much different things respond because inflammation is behind it, at least a partial cause of it. So we have heard anything and everything under the sun respond. A BPC stands for body protection compound. a bioidentical molecule that is naturally made in our gut and it's produced in your gut to help heal the gut from the acid environment, all of the stuff we put in, our systems with your standard American diet and it is a potent anti-inflammatory.

It also, you know, peptides are intelligent. They get called over to the site of injury through a process called chemotaxis where then they are signaling molecules and they signal to end cells and tissues to basically to work better, to process that. So when we use the word anti inflammatory, Some people say, well, you know, ibuprofen or NSAIDs, those are anti-inflammatories. Well, these work very differently because inflammation, as we know is a part of the healing process and is very important for soft tissue remodeling.

So when you take something like an ibiprofin or an NSAid. That chemically stops the entire inflammatory process, which can give you some symptomatic comfort or reduce the discomfort in the short term, but it also is blocking the beneficial inflammation that we need for this soft tissue remodeling. So the BPC will signal to the cells to allow the good inflammation to come in. and then get rid of the excess chronic inflammation. So it's very different when you're just using the word anti-inflammatory.

They also then, when they're called over to the site of injury, are responsible for stimulating angiogenesis. Angiogensis is the formation of new blood vessels at the site of injury. Also, BPC will stimulate fibroblasts to create more collagen 1-type fibers. Again, so you're talking that anti-inflammatory, reduction of inflammation, increased blood vessel production, and collagen synthesis, all a perfect situation for soft tissue healing, for bone healing. So it is a, it's a real powerhouse and it, you know, something that's very tolerable and is very bioactive.

The body as being a bioidentical to something is made in the body, the the really recognizes it and uses it readily. So, yeah, It's something we see people do very well with. Is it something that we make more of when we're younger bpc-157 just naturally endogenously we we Make more and then as we get older we produce less. I know children heal so much quicker and there's probably a number of different mechanisms, but My sons are basketball players and one of my sons, he hurt his hand, his wrist, and we thought he might miss a game, right?

And I said, no, I don't know. I thought that injury would probably take me two weeks to heal from and he'll heal in two days. And he did and it was fine. That's exactly right. And, and as we know, that's the same with so many helpful recovery molecules that we do make endogenously, like growth hormone, testosterone. Uh, these are things that when we're younger, we were making a lot more of, in the scene with BPC and we get older, make less of it. and one of the things BTC does that a lotta people don't recognize and it, it points to your your benefit you were talking about that you've been experiencing when you're getting less sore, right?

Because BPC, it actually increases your growth hormone system efficiency. It doesn't give you more growth hormones, It actually just up-regulates your Growth Hormone Receptors. So when we're living a chronically stressed life and maybe we are not doing all the things nutritionally, that's perfect. Our body sometimes will then down- regulate those Growth hormone receptors and we don't use our natural Growth hormones as well. So I tell people growth hormones like having 20 boats floating around in your blood, but you only have two docs.

Well, now you take the BPC that gives you 10 docs, right? So now, you're utilizing your own growth hormone. One of our biggest demographics are the lifelong active patient that's in their 40s, 50s and 60s. And we see it all the time. I'm not recovering like I used to. three rounds of golf, no problem, and, you know, do it again in a day or two. And they're just not able to do that anymore. Now, often they'll start the BPC with an injury. Say they have a little shoulder tendonitis. The tendon starts to feel better and then they realize, hey doc, is this something, can I keep on taking it?

Because honestly, like my whole body feels better. They're describing it sounds like they're taking an exogenous growth hormone because they are actually just feeling the effects of utilizing their own growth hormones well again and they haven't done it in years and then recovering like it did 10 and 15 years ago. And BPC is tolerable longer term. I always tell people, listen, you want to take a break here and there and let your body recalibrate, but with Oral interventions, we're always thinking about, is there a liver?

Is there kidney toxicity? And I mean, actually BPC is liver, it's hepatoprotective, nephroprotective, neuroprotective. So it definitely is. When we start to talk about the TB4, which I'm sure we will, that's something we do recommend three months at a time, then take a four to six week break. But the BPC is something that people will start more. I work with a lot of orthopedic surgeons, nurse practitioners that are a little bit more medically minded. And just like you were talking about before with the layering of the regenerative approaches, where we found that that's actually an amazing protocol and we've partnered with a great stem cell company called Jevity and they've been utilizing our BPC before and after a lot of their biologic applications and seeing outcomes just explode.

I have orthopedic surgeons that are private labeling now, they're doing the BPC or the Wolverine pre and post PRP as well where we're working with softwave distributors and the same thing. When they knew they've done their thing for so long, they know that they were getting 60, 70% patient success and with the BBC now they're seeing 80. So now a lot of these practices are utilizing it. They don't even offer PRP unless they're going to do BPC with it. Why take the chance of having a 50-50 result when you can have a 75-80% positive result on a regular basis?

So these regenerative medicine clinics basically that people are going to to get a lot of these therapies platelet rich plasma stem cell therapies things like that. People that you know for example you there's a lotta individuals that have degenerative joints right where they've you lost the disk space in their spine or in there knees you instead of getting a hip replacement they're saying hey I wanna go out and see what I can do. from a regenerative medicine approach than rather just getting a bolt, you know, stuck in my hip, right, for the rest of my life, which has for a lot of people doesn't actually even really give them much benefit.

And so they're going out, they are doing these therapies and they finding that utilizing the BPC 157 with them gives them a much higher success rates at healing and recovering from these kinds of... these kinds of long-term chronic degenerative conditions. So real powerful stuff.

Oral vs Injectable BPC-157 and Dosing 18:36

Now, what is kind of the clinical dosage that people should be looking at with a BPC-157? And I also want to talk about difference between, you mentioned this earlier, but there's a lot of these kind anti-aging peptide clinics that use BTC- 157 injections, right? And they have some benefits as well, obviously. So let's also go back and forth between pros and cons of BPC getting it done through injections and also through taking it orally. Sure. So that's probably the biggest question we're asked because in the dialogue, it's dogma that kind of been stuck there for years that the oral is good for stomach issues and the injectable is better for your joint, your joy issues.

And I always tell people that was the case, right? That was true at a point in time. BPC has been around for 30 years and it was doing so well. that clinicians were saying that while we have a limited amount of people that are willing to inject themselves once, if sometimes not twice a day, peptides have short half-lives, so really ideally should be dosed twice-a-day to increase the healing window. What they did was they took the same Ester, the BPC157 acetate, which is what's in the injectable, They put that into a pill form, and they found out that it helped out with stomach issues, but it didn't help anything else out because BPC-157 acetate is about 3% bioavailable when taken orally.

So now that's been forever in the dialogue. And that is, about five or six years ago, chemists were working on a better orly available formula, The arginate form is 90 to 98% bioavailable when taken orally. On our website, I've included a lot of peer-reviewed papers that talk about different conditions that the BPC is seeing do very well with. But we've also, because this is such a common question, we have added some papers that speak on the oral versus injectable controversy and issue. We've actually also included the arginate patent papers, which show if you have some time and you're willing to go through some pretty dry material, it's there where they show the charts and they the two head-to-head in a high and low pH environment, in the high- and-low-temperature environment.

And we see the BPC-157 arginate just not budging 98%, 99% bioavailable. There's actually a chart where they show both compounds in a 120 degree Fahrenheit environment for 90 days. And the BBC arginate is still 90% bioavailable after that. So people see, you know, sometimes when we ship to people, they say, well, this shouldn't just be refrigerated. And that is all true with the injectable. When you reconstitute it, you know, when you have a reconstituted peptide, it's got to go right in the fridge, right?

You can't shake it up. It's very unstable. The arginate molecule is very different. And it is heat resistant. I think the product is about two years from manufacturing that the expiration date is. So it a very difficult compound. So the acetate, it's like a binding amino acid on the BPC 157. It's the salt group. Okay. The salt. Yep. To help carry it in and it gives it more stability. Exactly. Yes. So the, but as far as the dosing you asked about, so we generally dose two pills a day, which is about a thousand micrograms or a milligram, Which then use, you know, w which has more than what the what, the injectable is, cause the injected bowl is a hundred percent bioavailable.

We're, making up for anything that's going to be lost in the digestive process. And basically what I'll tell people is that, two a One in the morning, one in evening, generally on an empty stomach at least 30 to 40 minutes before or after food. And it has to be just at atleast three to four hours apart from one another to really increase that healing window. that generally some people will experience a GI issue from it. If there's any stomach issues that are last for three or four days or longer or are more intense, if you take it with food, that pretty much kills those issues.

And it really doesn't change the efficacy. I've seen so many people go from taking it and they were having stomach issue, but they're their other issues were feeling better. They started taking it with food and their pain issues still got better, but their stomach issues pretty much went away. Yeah, it's a good general recommendation for people that struggle to take supplements away from meals. Zinc, for example, a lot of people, they try to zinc and they get nauseous, right? Yeah. It's classic one.

And so yeah, if that's you've got a more sensitive stomach, definitely take it with food and you'll get better benefits. close the intestinal lining. So in our society, we talk about autoimmune conditions, chronic inflammatory conditions. Non-injury-based inflammatory condition,s we have to look at gut permeability, intestino permeablity, because when that intestine is damaged, large undigested proteins, bacterial proteins and toxins from the bacteria and the different microbes in the gut will get into the bloodstream, send the alarm, signal the system in your body, and drive up inflammation.

And so we know with autoimmune conditions, chronic inflammatory conditions we've got an issue with intestinal permeability and BPC 157 is one of the best things for healing that intestino permeablity and creating strength and integrity to the gut lining. And that actually leads me to an interesting topic where we had was my third party lab. So we get everything third-party tested for everything possible. When people say they get third part tested, it's usually for purity and identification. And you know, that's kind of standard.

We use an FDA certified contract manufacturer. They won't touch the product unless we have that, right? And then we get, once they've created the pills, they send it off to a lab to get a third party tested for quantification or for potency to make sure what's in the pill matches what is on the label. And again, that's where a lot of issues come into general orals is they don't do that quantifications. Our lab will tell us that they see products sent in all the time. Some product has no active compound in it.

Others have 100 micrograms in one pill, 300 in the other, so it's really all over the place. But our lab, we ask to have endotoxins, right? Because a natural byproduct of peptide production is something called LPS, and I'm sure I know Dave's familiar with that. It's called lipopolysaccharides. And we were talking about that this weekend. It's a potent inflammatory trigger. In fact, when they want to create an inflammatory condition inside of, you know, test mice or rats, they'll actually inject LPS directly in to, to.

Create a sepsis like response in the body. Yeah, so my lab told me, said, well, you're doing the oral, right? I said yes. And he said well you don't even have to do the end, save yourself the money. Don't do endotoxin screens because most of that will just get eaten up in the digestive process. I was like no, no. We were literally learning about this this weekend, one of my continuing education. of course, is just like you said, when you have those gap junctions that are now permeable, things like LPS will get through.

And especially maybe for the larger population, that won't be a problem. But we deal with a very sensitive community. We have a lot of autoimmune of patients coming in. My stem cell company does a lot of IV infusions specifically with autoimmune patients, so we can't tolerate any of that. So we have all of those endotoxin labs done as well just to make sure that everything is as clean as possible. Yeah, great. Great. So that's a big differentiating factor. And so let's talk about TB4 FRAG. TB 4 Frag is another common peptide that is out there.

It's something that you've worked a lot with. Let's about the benefits of this. Of course. Tb4 frag is a another peptid that made by the body. Its made in the thymus gland. As we know the Thymis gland is vestigial gland that that atrophies by the time we're in our late 20s or 30s, and it serves as an immune organ or gland, that is. And the molecule that the thymus gland makes is called thimus and beta-4. Some people use it interchangeably with TB 500. It's not exactly, but we don't need to get into the splitting of hairs with that.

TB500 is the injectable peptide that is commonly used. And it's mostly known for being paired with the BPC because the two have very similar qualities but also are very synergistic. It's not just synergic, it is kind of exponential.

TB4 Frag, TB-500, and the Wolverine Stack 28:36

One plus one equals four, right? So the TB 500 is as well a potent anti-inflammatory. So when we stack the 2 together, you have double the anti-inflammatory effect. The TB500 also is angiogenic, so you're getting even more blood vessel production. Where the BPC creates and helps to stimulate more collagen 1-type fibers in the fibroblasts, well, those fibroblasts have to migrate over to the site of injury, and often about 70% of them will die off before they get there. So the TB 500 has stimulates Increase cell migration.

So now we have all these collagen producing cells over to the site of injury, even at a higher degree. TB 500 or, you know, we'll get into the difference between TB4 frag and TB500, but TB-500 also is an anti-fibrotic which helps to reduce adhesion formation, which is huge when you're talking about post-injury recovery, right? Especially a lot of my surgeons are using it post surgical, the stack that is, because if you have like a Rotator cuff repair. You're immobilized for at least six weeks. So during that immobilization, you have all the scar tissue formation, the heel, but you're getting all this unwanted adhesion.

Usually the first step after the immibilization is you go to therapy and they take you through passive range of motion to break up all these adhesions. The TB 500 allows much less adhesion formation. And when that happens, often our patients are going in, the therapists are taking them through passive brain demotion and are blown away by how far ahead of the game they are. Not to mention as well, a lot of these guys are out of pain in less than a week. I can tell you ruptured Achilles tendon repair, rotator cuff repair.

These are all within the last month that we've seen. that are reporting back within three, four, five days pretty much out of pain, didn't have to use any of the strong pain medication. So, yeah, so that becomes a real big factor in how we recommend, you know, BPC, STAC, or, and then the, So the difference between the TB 500, in its normal size molecule is too large to be orally bioavailable. So what they have to do is they take a segment, or in our case, two segments that are smaller. We have a TB4 frag that's the 1 through 4 segment and then we have the TB 4 frag, that is the 17 through 23 segments.

These are the most bioactive strands of the TP500 molecule that also have the least amount of side effects. So basically with those two, a lot of products that you'll see have a TP4 frag 1 through 4. And that is great. It has all of those benefits. That also has some cardiac benefit. The TB 500 isn't also an anti-apoptotic, right? So that's a cell death. So when you have a tissue like cardiac tissue, when those cells die, they don't... They don't make new cells, right? They create fibrotic tissue.

So there have been studies, they were looking at possibly using large dose of TB 500 in cases where people were having a myocardial infarction to help reduce the cell death and the fibrosis that will happen in that acute situation. So when you talk about fibrosis, you're talking about basically like scar tissue. So we think about scar, tissue, it's not as pliable. It's as functional, right? As normal tissues, kind of just taking up space. And in the short-term process of the healing process, there can be benefits to having some scar tissues.

But ultimately we want to replace that with beneficial, functional stress-resilient tissue in particular, in our arterial lining, our heart, things like that. Very important. Yeah, exactly. So then those TB4 frag molecules are what enabled that TB500 compound to be bioavailable, taken in oral form. Yeah. Yeah, great. And now also taking the TB4 frag with the BPC 157, I know something called the Wolverine stack, right, which combines those. Can you can you explain that and the synergy there? Correct, yeah.

I was kind of touching on that before where they're both potent anti-inflammatory, so you're getting double the anti inflammatory effect. They're angiogenic, you are getting even more blood vessel production when you take the two together. When you take the two together, the BPC will help to promote the collagen one type fiber production. And then the TB4 will to migrate or increase cell migration to the site of injury. So you have more of those healthy active cells repairing that injury and really That stack has been, I mean, the BPC has got the name recognition right now, but at this point, people, once they try the stack, it's been probably as much, if not even a better seller than, because people are just feeling that real, and talking about as far as the reduction of soreness or increased recovery post-workout.

I mean, people are just feeling better than they have in such a long time. And even when we talk about the BPC increasing the growth hormone efficiency, right, because we know that the The BPC upregulates growth hormone receptors. Well, we know that growth hormones up-regulate androgen receptors, so that's what utilizes your testosterone. So, I even tell people, you know, this is the case if you're not taking anything exogenous. You're just allowed to, and you can be enabled to use your own more naturally, but if people are doing other interventions like TRT, And if their androgen receptors are downregulated, then they're not even utilizing what they are putting in their body.

And that's one of the reasons they may not be having the effects that were intended. So BPC can kind of be a link to helping make... So then not only are you utilizing all of it more efficiently, but then you may, even if you are using an exogenous source, you might not need to use as much because you're actually just utilizing a small amount and getting a much bigger effect. Yeah, that's a really important thing for people to recognize in general, even when you're looking at lab testing, you know, somebody might have, for example, really high B12.

Okay. But they're not actually getting the B 12 there. They're actually absorbing it and getting it. So their serum B-12 may be high, but they are not getting intracellularly or high thyroid hormone, or normal thyroid hormones, not get it intricellulary. We see that with insulin resistance. It can also be the case with testosterone. You could have high testosterone because Either your body's producing it or you're taking it, taking TRT, but it doesn't mean that that testosterone is actually having the desired effect in your system.

So this is important. Good receptor sensitivity and receptor activity is really critical. And so you are saying that this Wolverine stack really helps with that receptor-sensitivity, so your uptaking more of it. They call it the Wolverines stack because it's named after the X-Men characters. Some people may be familiar with this guy. But his superpower was his ability to heal like rapidly so he would get hurt and he Would heal just rapidly like significantly faster than than a human would heal and so Obviously ever since that cartoon character came out that superhero came people are like I want that superpower, right?

Yeah, it's kind of funny. It's kinda quirky, you know, but I can tell you that I've seen people that have been struggling and sometimes, you know, a lot of people think, well, this is only for acute issues. I have seen that people have had things that were three years old that had a really significant response. And with those, listen, we don't give anybody any guarantees with anything, you know, just like any intervention, everybody's going to respond differently. I can say we see pretty rarely about 75% of people have a positive response.

And does that mean that things are 100% better? No, I mean, often we have somebody that'll have something that was an eight out of 10, and now it's a two out 10. Their quality of life is completely different. They're very happy. So that is You know, that's a great thing. And with the Wolverine, I've seen too, like, you know some people start with a BPC and maybe it's not doing the trick and then, we'll move to the wolverine and it'll just be a game changer. Now, is there a time where you will recommend the Bpc 157 as opposed to, the combination with TB4 frag?

Yeah, there's definitely as a couple like with With the Wolverine, generally, I tell people, if you have a bigger issue and you want a quicker turnaround time, go with the wolverine. And it's not, you know, it sometimes is going with Wolverines for one month and then transitioning to the BPC. You know I have generally I've, tell the people at the BBC you wanna give it two weeks. We're often seeing people within a week start to feel some effects of it. The Wolverine, I mean, pretty regularly, four to seven days, people are feeling a pretty strong response.

I will say that, yeah, so if somebody has, hey, you know, deal with a lot of competitive ethics, have a competition coming in a month. Or someone that's just like, Hey, having a vacation coming into month, they need to be able to, be active. you know, start with the Wolverine. And generally what we do is we start them with a Wolverines and towards the end of the month, I say, listen, let's reassess. You either self reassessed if you're not in my office, or you can reach out to me. We can talk about how you are progressing.

If things are generally doing much better, then maybe we will move to the BPC. Or if, you feel like you just kind of getting going, maybe, we'll do a second month of The Wolverin. and then obviously there's a, You know I always, meet people with where they're at, right? So there is a financial issue and it's like, listen, the wolf, first of all, you know, people look at peptides and they see the price point and I try to explain them this is not multivitamin. This is more in a regenerative medicine space where we're comparing it often to PRP and other interventions that are in the thousands of dollars.

But when they try it, then they get it. So often somebody will say, hey, listen, let me just be conservative. I'll start with the BPC. Sure. And they start to see, oh, wow, this different. Right away, their value perception changes. The second month, I'm definitely doing the Wolverine. But as well, do I have to be on this forever? I hear that all the time. I tell people, you can guide your own journey with this. Some people are just problem-focused. Something hurts, they start taking it. Two weeks later, it stops hurting, and they stop taking.

And that's fine.

Product Quality, Testing, and Closing Remarks 40:36

Then they have half a bottle if something flares up. guide people through that as well. If they've been doing it for a couple months and maybe they moved down to they're doing one pill a day just to keep the systemic inflammation down on more of a maintenance level and then something flares up. Well, you can bump up to three pills a days for three days, three or four days just kind of get in and that's the thing just like any other intervention like chiropractic. The sooner you get to it, the better it's going to be.

So if you have it on hand and you can address it right away, often it'll be a much shorter issue. And then after the three or four days, you come back to two a day, but you sort of play with it like that. are very safe. We're not even close to any sort of, you know, the toxic doses are through the roof. I mean, I've seen and heard people taking, equivalent to a bottle at a time. There's a big gelato room there. So it's not that we're recommending these doses because it can be toxic. at some higher dose.

It's just, I like to get people to take the minimally effective dose, right? So a lot of times more is not better, all right. Yeah, they're typically with supplements, nutrients, different things like that, peptides, there's a law of diminishing returns, you take a certain amount and your return on investment is, not as on par. So you're trying to give, hey, this is the dosage it's gonna give you, should give the best, return-on-investment. Correct. Yeah, because then I'll hear people literally, oh, wow, this is really getting expensive.

Like, well, you're taking eight pills a day. I mean, that's, I would not recommend that because if you actually went to two, maybe went through three pills today, actually may see a very similar result because of the law of diminishing returns. Dr. Justin Marchegiani Yeah, absolutely. And so the website is biothrive.us. You guys can check that out. I also sell it on my store. Take it personally. My wife, I give it to my wife as well. We both love the products. So they're really good and we really like biotherm and you guys are obviously have really high standards with how you do these peptides.

People can go on amazon.com just like any supplement and they can find stuff. But you're always you always want to look for something professional grade made by clinicians for a number of reasons. You know, you talked about obviously testing for purity, but also efficacy, making sure that what's what it says on the doses in the dose and you know they've done, different consumer groups have looked at a Number of different supplements that are just kind of sold blanket on amazon.com and found that you know, the ranges are all over the board, that there's toxicity in them.

This is something that you guys really try to make sure. Can you talk a little bit more about your standards that Oh, a hundred percent. So yeah, I mean, it's the old adage, you get what you pay for, right? I see the price point in some of these products that people come to me with and I don't even have to do the research. I know the pricing of the raw material and my feedback from my third party labs and There's no way there's the amount of product in there that it actually says. So again, the potency, that the quantity of active compound is one of the big issues.

And then when you're talking about product that's coming from overseas, as far as the contaminants, LPS is 1, but we're also looking at heavy metals. You have to be careful. I had a point where We were switching manufacturers and we had a gap and I warned people, you know, don't just try to buy something online. If you do want to by something, maybe let me know. I can point you in a direction of another preferred provider. And I had one person said that they just had no effect and the other person thought they got sick from it.

So there's a lot out there. As well, that gets into what we actually have in the, the pill. Like we started using some of the industry wide, you know, fillers, right? It's industry standards. And after the first couple of batches, we were having a little bit more stomach issues than I would have liked. So we took everything out. And all we have in it now is the active compound and MCC, which is microcrystalline cellulose. And that is just a plant-based, you know, fiber, more or less, and very benign.

I mean, things that were supposed to not have any antigenic effect that once we took out, I had people that had stomach issues, they took our second version of it and stomach issue went away. So, and the downside people, our manufacturer was like, well, you know, because it's very light and fluffy, there's going to be a little space in the pill. I can deal with a little space in the pill rather than someone having, you know, stomach issues and not wanting to take the product. So, so really we, we source all of the raw material from U-compounding facilities.

Our compound manufacturer that takes the products, makes it into the pills and puts it in a bottle is FDA certified. They have very strict regulations. And we're really happy with the product. Like I said, before we scaled it, we had it for our patients, our friends and family, some of our very familiar colleagues with their patients and we took the feedback and changed things. And now the products that we have, are very happy to see the results. side effects. I mean, like I said, some people with the BPC will get a little bit of stomach issue.

That's pretty typical, but we want those percentages to be much smaller, which they really are. And then having a strategy to communicate that if they take it with food, they will really have much less, almost no GI issues with that. So we've really kind of It's not a very difficult process, but getting all of those small little nuance factors right does make a big difference with a lot of people's reactions. Yeah, for sure. Well, Rob, thanks so much. This has been a great masterclass on these peptides and company again is BioThrive.

Biothrive dot us is the website. So definitely check that out, guys. You can also find it again on Dr. Jocker's store. Just look for peptides, BPC-157-TB4-FRAG, and you'll find that as well. Rob, thanks for all the great work that you're doing. Be blessed, my friend. Thank you for tuning in to Dr. Talks. We hope today's episode has enlightened and inspired you on your path to optimal health. Each day is a new opportunity to make choices that empower your well-being. For more insights and strategies, subscribe to our podcast and visit our website, www.DrTalks .com.

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