The Hidden Root of Chronic Illness: Trauma, Emotions, and the Nervous System

Opening on emotions and chronic illness 0:00

The body can store emotions, like the water in our bodies holds emotions and imprints. The organs, according to traditional Chinese medicine, will hold emotions, like the liver holds anger. A lot of people have heard of that, or the lungs hold onto grief. That is one way. So they've looked at people who have had grandparents that have had severe trauma and found that they had larger amygdalas, so they were more sensitive to stress and anxiety just because of their DNA, just because of the trauma of two generations back.

If you're overwhelmed with chronic health symptoms and still don't have answers, you're not alone. I'm Dr. Javin, and on redefining wellness with Dr. Javin, we'll be exploring root causes like Lyme disease, mold, and parasites, and I'll guide you with simple and practical steps towards real healing. Hello and welcome back to redefining wellness podcast. I'm your host, Dr. Jaben Moore. Today, I have two guests. There's something we've never done before because it's a unique opportunity. I've got Dr.

Tracy Southwick here, who is the founder of MBSR. We're going to dive into what that is, but it's a very, very valuable tool that we use in my clinic. That's why Elsie is here today, who is a health coach and graduate of Dr. Tracy's program. And I'm just really excited to have both of you ladies here talk through this because I'll be honest, if you were talking to me a decade ago, I would probably not want to have this kind of conversation about emotions and how that can affect health. But I have found out that the hard way, it is absolutely one of the key components that's going to help somebody with chronic symptoms get well.

So thank you for joining me, ladies. Absolutely. Thank you for having us. So Dr. Tracy, I've got your bio here. And I mean, the reality is you've been doing this for a while. I won't, I won't age you. Time frame. I know well over 30 years. But you're in Houston and you developed Mind, Body, Spirit Release Academy, which is now an accredited program.

Introducing the guests and MBSR 2:06

And you've been working with practitioners and being from that, you've been on TV and podcasts. And just to begin, why in the world did you come up with the program to help with emotions, trapped emotions, nervous system? What prompted you to need to do that? That's a great question. Like many of the people who are in our arena, I started this because I had my own health issues. I had chronic disease, chronic illness myself when I was young and discovered natural health because of that, because the Western medicine said, well, the only thing we can do is give you Prozac and you're gonna be in and out of bed for the rest of your life.

And I did not like that prognosis. So I ended up at a health food store. They helped me by changing my diet and I took supplements and it was wonderful, but it got me to a certain point. was super excited about learning that the body does have an innate capacity to heal itself. You just have to figure out what toxins are in the way and what maybe malnutrition or what you might be missing. So when you put those two things together, it helps the body heal itself. I was super excited about that, but then I realized when I hit that plateau that the reason I was hitting that plateau is because I wasn't focusing on the emotional aspect of health, the things that I hadn't processed through.

And those can be considered toxins as well. So, you know, maybe I had unforgiveness that I wasn't dealing with, or maybe I had grief or sadness or You know, one of the big ones for me was an inability to speak what I really wanted to say. You know, I grew up in a wonderful family, but I had a very strong father that I never felt really comfortable and confident saying, no, this isn't right or no, I want this. I didn't feel confident standing up for myself. So when I started to learn that those things actually could affect you on a physiological level, I wanted to learn everything about it, and I just went down this huge rabbit hole of what can you do, what can you do not only to recognize what those things are, but also to help the body release them.

I just developed a program through years of experience and learning different things. I developed it about a little bit more than a decade ago. Then in 2019, opened the academy because I had so many people wanting to understand how they could implement this in their practice, how they could implement it in their lives. So it's not only for practitioners. I work with a lot of people that are just, you know, I want another tool in my toolkit. How can I be more holistic? How can I address this area of health so that on all levels I will feel better and heal and give the body what it needs to heal?

Well, that sounds like what a lot of us end up doing and why we're here today is being able to figure out how to get ourselves better first. And then it manifests into you going to practice, you get a client, you figure that out. That's what brought me to this stage of understanding the mental, emotional, energetic side of things because My story was lime and mold and I jumped into the world of healing and I wasn't thinking at all about emotions. I was thinking about organisms and toxins. And then people weren't getting well and in some categories, like they just weren't feeling the progress.

They were stuck. And I was like, what in the world is holding them back? And with Elsie working with me, and she can speak to this a lot, sometimes you've done all the right protocols. You've done all the right work on your house and hygiene products, and you've, you've dialed all that in. Your environment is perfectly safe from a toxin perspective as far as you can get it. and you're still stuck.

Why Dr. Tracy created Mind Body Spirit Release 5:55

And we see that all the time. And then being able to speak to, hey, there's another part of this has really taken our practice to the next level. And I mean, Elsie, what are you seeing in that? So it's really fascinating that how many clients that we get in where I explain it like we're living in our, or they're living in their head. There's a disconnect from their mind and their body, their head, their thoughts, their beliefs. They're going a million miles an hour and it gets chaotic and it gets overwhelming.

And so, my goal always is to kind of help disconnect that gap that's preventing them from connecting mind, body, and spirit. And a lot of times what I see is there's a lot of lack of purpose in their life. There's a lot of unworthiness that they feel. You know, our nervous system and our body are highly sensitive to making a meaning of ourselves and self-perception, right? So when someone feels unworthy, the brain can almost start to interpret this as I'm not safe, I'm not enough, right? And so what happens is this keeps that stress response in a continual loop, right?

And chronic stress like that, that's gonna disrupt digestion, immunity, sleep, energy, hormones, you name it. So it's very important that when you are on that healing journey, You're not just working on the physical side. I think that was really well said and that connected to the question I really wanted to bring up next, which is you said, sometimes you feel unsafe. And I think that's one of the most important things that I've really teased out of what clients are feeling when they're emotionally not as stable as they need to be for healing journeys.

What physiologic responses are happening in the body? Like, why is it that you can rid all the Lyme disease, the mold, the parasites, the toxins, the, the, the uranium radium, you can get all this out of the body. Yeah. The chronic illness symptoms are still there. Like what physiologically is happening? Are we seeing any measurable changes in the body biochemically? Absolutely. It goes back to what I mentioned earlier is the concept that The illness stems from either toxicity or malnutrition. As a naturopath, that's kind of how we look at things.

And emotions, the body doesn't distinguish between a physical toxin or an emotional toxin. So back to what Elsie was saying, when we've got emotional toxins floating around in our bodies that we have not processed, when we're disconnected, whether we didn't have enough time to process it, life was going so fast, we had all these things coming all the time or we didn't have the tools. to process whatever emotions or stressors or traumas that we were dealing with, the body holds onto those things and the body remembers those things.

And it's running like, like Elsie was saying, it's running in a loop in the background and the body's thinking, I'm toxic, I'm toxic, I'm toxic. I'm in fight or flight all the time. So it causes this nervous system dysregulation. Eventually they'll go into the dorsal mode, but it is, it's going to get you into a state where your body can't truly heal because you're always in that fight or flight mode, because there's that perception that there's a toxin, whether it's grief or unworthiness or, you know, whatever emotion, you know, Elsie, I'm sure you can speak to that further.

Well, I mean, and, you know, even our super sensitive clients, you know, where they feel like I don't want to try it. I won't succeed. You know, this rumination, this loop of self-doubt and worry and even like past failures.

How emotions affect healing and the nervous system 10:03

And Dr. Jamon, you were talking about like, what are the physical changes that you see when you start to address some of these things? I see cravings go down in people. I see better sleep. I see, you know, relationships improve. Surprisingly, one of the most common things I see is people's pain, physical body pain will start to reduce. This is a real thing that is happening in the body once you start figuring out what are all these layers that are keeping me in this loop? What is keeping me stuck here?

Yeah. I decided to go down a little bit of the rabbit hole myself on what's happening on a physiological perspective, not just how are we feeling per se, not the symptom relief, but there's actually some studies that show that trauma So mental trauma or emotional trauma can trigger some of the same pathways that generate inflammation as if you got COVID or as if you had a toxin in your body. So even the evidence is starting to mount that the perception of, let's just call it safety for the moment.

The perception of safety, if that's taken away from you, your body will generate different biochemical markers as if you had an infection or a toxin. So as you said, pain going away is a, that's a perfect example is that those inflammatory markers, those interleukins fade, pain is going to go away. So now for me, when I'm working with a client, I'm just thinking to myself, well, is it an infection, a toxin or a trauma? That's really where my brain goes. Yes, we absolutely need to make sure that we eat enough food and sleep enough, and we do the basics.

And I'll be honest, most of the people that walk into my clinic, I'm not the first person that's going to talk about that. People all the time are coming in, they're like, what diet can you put me on to fix this? And I'm like, well, you've done vegan, carnivore, FODMAPs, oxalate, And, you know, histamine and six other diets, you've eliminated, you've done the food panels. None of that worked. I'm not saying food doesn't matter, but you've done all the really big things. What you have never done is started talking about that childhood trauma you dealt with.

And they're like, well, that was 20 years ago. So then something that I think should be talked about more and Tracy, I think you're the right fit for this is how did these experiences that we've had, whether it's a childhood adverse event, it's a miscarriage or an argument you have with your significant other. How does that get stuck or stored or impact the body later on, even when you don't really Think about it on a day-to-day basis, right? Like something could have happened to you. Yes, it happened, but it's not at the forefront of your mind.

How has that stuck in causing body problems? That's a great question. And there are lots of different ways the body can store emotions, like the water in our bodies holds emotions and imprints. The organs, according to traditional Chinese medicine, will hold emotions like the liver holds anger. A lot of people have heard of that. The lungs hold onto grief. That is one way, the DNA. So they've looked at people who have had grandparents that have had severe trauma and found that they had larger amygdalas, so they were more sensitive to stress and anxiety just because of their DNA, just because of the trauma of two generations back.

All those things are true, but a little bit kind of more towards what you're talking about, I think, is in the subconscious mind. So we develop beliefs around things. So say we have this traumatic event when we're a child and it makes us think that we're a failure. So maybe you were, you know, and maybe not a big T trauma, maybe I was on stage in second grade and tripped and fell and everyone laughed at me. I'm a failure. I can't do anything right. That starts looping, right, in your head, and you start looking for things that verify or validate that.

Maybe subconscious, but anytime you hear anyone say anything that's closely resembles, that you're a failure, you latch onto it. And you're adding more and more evidence in your subconscious mind that that's the truth. And your body listens to whatever's going on in your subconscious mind and whatever you speak. So this is a big thing we talk about in the arena of chronic illness. because you become overly identified with your diagnosis. I will always be sick. I am always sick. I am a Lyme person.

I am a mold person. It's okay to talk about those things because you need to talk about those things, but talk about them in a fashion that you're healing instead of in a fashion that it is fact and this is who I am. Because the more we say those things, the more we think those things, the more the body follows suit. So that's a really important part of how the body stores things because we are looking for those ways to kind of verify, validate, solidify that programming and it just gets worse and worse and worse.

So unwinding that, acknowledging and understanding it and seeing it, that's one of the ways, one of the biggest things in mind-body-spirit lease is figuring out what that is, right? What is it that we're storing? We might think it's one thing, but it's something else, deeper, and then figuring out how to let go of it, unwind it, and reprogram the subconscious mind to have something, a health-affirming belief system instead of something that's going to keep you in that cycle or in that trap. So with people that are experiencing these triggers that have led to changing of the way that they're thinking about things and the way that they express and that pattern that's going on in their minds.

What are some different patterns of manifestation that you're seeing? So are there common symptoms physically, mentally, energetically that you see from people that are dealing with those repetitive patterns or different types of trauma even in life so that Maybe as I'm in practice or other people are just evaluating themselves, things to look for. I would love to speak on this because I see this all the time in clinic. It's really, it's funny to, when you look at it that way, our sickest people, right?

You know, they come in with these, the normal labs. They've been to every single doctor. Everything is fine, but they keep searching and searching and searching for answers. They all have the same personality type. They are type A. They are control freaks.

Signs of trauma patterns in chronic illness 17:00

They have a backup plan for a backup plan. They're hypervigilant. They've been people pleasers. They say yes to everything. They do not set boundaries. And this is where, okay, their labs look normal on paper. And this is where we're seeing, okay, no, the mind, the emotions, what you're thinking, how you're extending yourself and not setting boundaries, how it's affecting their physical health. Definitely see the pattern of those types of personalities myself. I've gotten to the point now where in my intake paperwork, I just start asking questions about those types of personalities, which just helps me to frame some of the work that we may need to do.

And also honestly, how to frame the way that I communicate a little bit better so that different personality types can be. able to just connect to the information I'm giving them. Because I think that's a big value initially in the time we start care with people is if you're a details person and. you want exact reasoning for the 17 different chronic illness symptoms, it's gonna be tough because you never know, is it Lyme or trauma or mold that's exactly causing different pieces? So it helps me to understand how to communicate in a better way so that we can give the best possible care.

You know, as you go down that rabbit hole of pattern manifestation of somebody, are there Are there signs that people are really fighting what's going on that they're really trying to suppress stuff and they're not letting it out? Is there ways that as a practitioner or as a spouse even that you can see patterns starting to be built? You know, definitely, I love that you're doing that in your intake form, by the way. I think that's brilliant. I'm sure you already help people so much more efficiently and effectively.

You know, I see certain things like, from a physical standpoint, I will see patterns around maybe lower back pain. I'll see patterns, that's a big one, is lower back pain, tension in the jaw, those kinds of things that the body's holding on to something, right, and the body's tensing up. Inflammation, chronic inflammation, they're eating an anti-inflammatory diet, they're doing all the right things, low toxin, and they're still inflamed. Something is going on. But also things like ruminating, negative self-talk is a big one.

So if somebody's got that negative self-talk loop and they're always saying, you know, the world's out to get me, everything's terrible, you know, they always kind of spiral down, that's an indicator that, you know, there might be some trauma that their body's just immediately reverting back to that lowest state. Anxiety's a big one. A lot of anxiety, a lot of rumination, a lot of difficulty in finishing tasks. because it's hard to stay focused. And there's, you know, all those things cross over with physiological stuff, too.

So you always have to look at all the ankles, but they definitely, you know, anxiety, low mood, lack of motivation. can be physiological, but it can certainly be unprocessed emotions that they don't want to look there, right? So they're always on their phone. They're always scrolling. That's a way to numb. What are they doing to numb? Whether it's drinking every night, whether it's on Netflix watching 15 episodes of whatever. not do they have piles of stuff around the house, where are they feeling overwhelmed or where are they hiding from the world, I guess, or hiding from themselves, hiding from looking deep, because some of those things are really, really hard to look at and they're really, really traumatic and in mind body spirit release we actually do it in a way that's not it's not like talk therapy where we're and we're not taking the place of therapists by any means but it's really kind of looking in and saying okay this is what you haven't processed let's help you let go of it and give you some healthier habits healthier ways to talk about yourself, healthier ways to think about yourself versus the talking about things over.

And the more you talk about it over and over again, the more you're building that wall, right? The more you're solidifying all those things. And I'm not saying not to talk about it, but if you're doing it incessantly, it's not doing anything but just validating your negative belief patterns. Tracy, I had a client the other day and it was our first initial meeting And I said, tell me about yourself. Who are you? What do you do? She goes, well, I've been chronically ill for 20 years. So that was her identity.

And yeah, I mean, our thoughts and our beliefs absolutely shape our reality. So like you said, it's important to talk about these things, get them out, but don't make that your strength. And that's where I see so many people get stuck on their healing journeys. they focus on their illness and it almost becomes like that's their strength, but that's not their strength. That's not their purpose happening to them. So we've got to break down the barrier of these limiting beliefs and these thought patterns that are keeping them stuck in that chronic illness.

You know, you guys talked about a lot of the mental health type symptoms that we can look at, whether it be the A types or the anxiety, which I think anxiety to me just simply means you don't feel safe. I see that all the time. As soon as I see that, I'm like, okay, we need to be doing something to rehabilitate the thought patterns. Now we also figure out why you don't feel safe. So is that something that has happened to you? Is it mental, emotional, or is it physiological? You live in a house that's toxic.

So figuring those out are big, but some of the physical symptoms that I notice is dehydration. So you feel dehydrated. You're craving sugar because when your body has been under duress or stress for a long period of time, you increase hormones that allow for the excretion of all your minerals. So you just let them all out. You burn through them all. So then you have no minerals, which are required to absorb water. So now we have dehydration markers. So we'll see albumin elevated in the blood work albumin above 4.6. I started to think, okay, this might be something that is leading toward dehydration.

If I see you above five, I'm like, okay, we're dehydrated and what in the world is burning us out? Which takes me to burnout and overwhelm those types of personality traits that can come from someone who is burning a candle at both ends. And that personality type that you've talked about does that often. They're worried about everything. They're trying to control everything, be on top of everything, whether it's the A type, the people pleasing, they're trying to hold everything together

How emotions are stored in the body 24:18

and be that glue for whatever was broken. And those people end up having sodium and potassium on hair tests that were low. We'll say creatine and some of our urine tests will be subnormal ranges or way down at the bottom. So then that makes it very difficult for this person to produce energy. So they're tired, which means burnt out. They're tired, so they're overwhelmed. You see a Basically depletion pattern and minerals, depletion pattern and excretion, and that's the labs that we're seeing. And then they can have all the symptoms associated to dehydration, the headaches, the skin that's not healing quite as well, the mineral lines in the nails, all of that starts to come up when you put the symptoms to the patterns.

Because I'm looking at the physical stuff, As I'm not the therapist and I'm not doing the MBSR, but I'm seeing the outcome of a battery that's just burnt out. A bank account that's empty for energy because they spent all of their energy or all of their money when it comes to energy in their bank account on something else, which is the anxiety, the worries, the control mechanisms that they put in their lives. But how is it that somebody can start to get over this is the question now that I want to get us to, which is you've got these stuck emotions.

You've got this trauma in your childhood. You've got these patterns that you've developed and they're there, right? Like, you know, by the time they get into my clinic, it's been probably for many of them, like the client else, he was talking about 20 years. So How do we start to identify process and release these emotions that they've probably talked to a therapist about? They might even know are there and they've just decided, well, these are good things. I want to hold onto them maybe, or maybe they know they're not and they're ready to let go.

But how does it start? Yeah, that's a great question. And acknowledging or understanding it is the first. And a lot of times people, like you said, they do know that there's something, but they don't either, they don't know how to let go of it or they don't know what it is that they need to let go of. So finding somebody to work with. With mind, body, spirit release, we use ideomotor testing to determine which is idea. It's tapping into the nervous system. It's a way to tap. We use our own nervous system.

So Elsie would use her, unless she's working on someone in person, her own nervous system to tap into from a quantum physics standpoint. I'm not going to go deep into it, but there's definitely quantum physics type properties that are really important in this process. We're going to tap into that person and literally ask the nervous system what's going on, because the nervous system knows everything that's going on in the body, knows everything that's happened during this whole lifetime. And so we can, by going through prompt after prompt, figure out, you know, what are those things this person's holding on to?

What are those limiting beliefs that are guiding this person's decisions and lives? their health, their health journey. So we figure out what those are and then we help the person release them. And then we give them specific based on whatever is going on in their life and whatever's appropriate for them. We give them specific exercises kind of in between appointments to say, Hey, I want you to focus on this. Whether it's journaling, whether it's breath work, we've got to get the nervous system regulated.

You know, going back to what you were saying with the minerals, you can't regulate a nervous system unless you get those minerals and electrolytes out because you've burned through them. So you've got to work on a physical level as well to kind of rehydrate, rebalance. Maybe it's B vitamins, maybe it goes into methylation, but magnesium is really important with that. But work on regulating the nervous system at the same time. is we're helping the person identify what's holding them back and helping them let go of it.

And it can go a lot deeper than that. And I'll see, in your practice, you might do it a little bit differently than I do. But yeah, what are your thoughts on that? What I really like for my clients to do is to figure out what their purpose is. right? Why are they staying sick and miserable, right? The nervous system is always going to prioritize survival over thriving. So their energy is diverted into, you know, safety and not growth and not purpose. And healing will slow because, you know, your system never fully is able to relax and step into your strength.

So the power of having some sort of purpose, having a sense of meaning and contribution or some sort of personal mission, you're able to start telling yourself, I'm safe. I'm safe enough to use my energy. I am valuable. I am capable. And it's really surprising to work with so many people who they don't even know who they are.

Releasing stuck emotions and rebuilding purpose 29:28

they've completely lost themselves. And that is, you know, one of the, I like to call it, I have this thing that I call the cloak theory, right? Think of like a big, dark, heavy cloak. We wear the cloak of childhood trauma. We wear the cloak of chronic illness. We wear the cloak of, you know, all sorts of different things. And what happens, we become so weighted down We become so covered up that we don't know who we are. So we have to start taking off those cloaks. We have to relearn what our purpose is, what we enjoy.

Are we creative? What are our gifts? Most people, they don't even know. Too busy surviving. No. Some of the clients I'm working with, they come in and they're taking 40 supplements and doing 10 different health therapies. And what I mean by health therapies, they could be doing sauna, castor repacks, rebounding, you name the thing that they're doing at home, but they're doing all of these things that in general are all good. And I tell them that I'm like, all this stuff is good. None of it is bad, but it all takes time.

It all takes focus. It all takes energy. You only have so much of that to go around. You're coming in fatigued and brain fogged and feeling bad already. And although these things theoretically could help doing 40 supplements and 10 therapies every day might be too much for you more often than not. Well. I don't know if I've ever met somebody that 40 supplements a day was ideal. Uh, I know there's a few influencers out there and, and biohackers that are like, I don't eat food. I eat a stack of pills.

I'm like, I don't agree with that. That's just not something I agree with. I'm like, I want you to eat some real food. Yes. Sometimes we have to supplement it. Yes. There's some need for that. That's not what today's talk is about, but I just say, you know, my goal for you is to thrive. It's to get to a point where we're not. being alive to find health, we have health which allows us to live. So it's a very different mindset. And I'm usually trying to pull someone out of the, let me go down the rabbit hole of social media and Facebook groups every night to try and figure out what the heck is going to help me.

And unfortunately, I've gotten a lot of clients from those Facebook groups. I don't want to hate on them. But if you're on that, typically, You're not well yet is what I've seen. You don't have a lot of like the, I've, I've won, I've overcome it. I'm well now warriors that are left in those groups because those groups have a lot of negativity in them and a lot of I'm not well yet. And this is what I'm trying. And again, there's, it's a time and place that they have value to them, but the people that are well are like, I'm going to go live my life.

Making that energetic shift to let me go live, making the mindset of I'm going to go live. Yes, I still need to do the things that I got to do to stay well has been really valuable for a lot of the people I'm working with. And as you start to release the identity, like you said, of the client identified as being sick and start to create the identity of, yeah, I'm on a roadblock, but like, here's where I'm going. And this is the life that I live and this is who I am. I've got one lady who's the. tour manager for rock bands.

That's a cool job. Let's identify as that. Yep. Not as I'm dealing with the problem that I'm dealing with. So. You know, as we kind of come to a close here at this conversation, Tracy, how do people, whether they're practitioners seeking out someone who does MBSR or they want to learn it for themselves, how do they figure out where that is? So we have a lot of information. We're on Instagram. I'm not a social media person, but I'm sure if you typed in MindBodySpiritRelease, you could find us. And we have the Academy is MindBodySpiritRelease.com.

And that has got a wealth of information, a lot of podcasts, a lot of educational videos, and just information about what it is, what it entails, how to find practitioners. If you can't get Elsie, she's amazing. Fantastic. Our courses are open to anybody. It used to be just practitioners years ago, and then we realized that there were so many people. As you know, they've learned as much as many physicians just in their own health journey, and they just want another tool in their toolbox. to be able to work within their own health problems or their family's health problems.

Actually, a lot of those people end up being practitioners anyway because people get so excited and they just want to help people. But yes, so they start out just wanting to help them or needing to help themselves. But at the Academy, we do have all that information at mind, body, spirit, release. And we'll put that in the show notes and make sure everybody can see where to go there. And Tracy, I just want to thank you for this information, for developing this technique, for bringing it to the forefront.

Finding MBSR resources and closing remarks 34:48

I remember a decade ago, give or take, when I met you at Cellcore and you were speaking and I was getting into learning about all of this. And now I just see that for some individuals, this is the key that unlocks success, even if they have mold and Lyme. and parasites. This is still that key that they have to go into and you can't just ignore it. And it's a must have tool. So thank you so much. And until next time, I'm sure we'll connect again. I think I see you coming up here soon at Stillcore again.

I will. I will see you there. And hopefully you too, Elsie. Yes. Can I, can I add one thing, Dr. Jamin? true mind, body, spirit release. And I will tell you this until the day the Lord brings me home, Tracy, it changed my life. And I owe you everything. You know, you don't owe me that. I'm grateful to be a part of the journey. So thank you for sharing that. Yeah, I just I want to give a word of encouragement. You know, I was I was really nobody seven years ago, right? Like I, I was a chronically ill daughter.

I, my mind wasn't even in this realm of work. I lost myself. I didn't know who I was. Um, I was super sick as well and I was desperate and I took the chance and my life has never been the same. So my deepest gratitude to you, Tracy, and to you Dr. Jaben. I'm so grateful. Thank you both. And what a wonderful thing you guys both are doing to help so many people with chronic illness. I think it's amazing and so needed. Well, that'll wrap this episode. Thank you, ladies. Until next time. Thank you for tuning in to Redefining Wellness with Dr.

Javin. If this episode spoke to you, please follow and share this podcast with someone who is ready to take control of their chronic health symptoms. Also, please consider leaving a review. It helps more people find the show. See you here again.