The Impact Of Vitamin C On Your Cancer Journey

Ron Hunninghake, MD

Well, thank you, Michael, for inviting me. It is a pleasure to be among the auspicious guests that you have at this summit. I am honored.

Michael Karlfeldt, ND, PhD

Well, thank you so much, and for everyone out there. Dr. Ron Hunninghake joined the Riordan Clinic in 1989 as its Medical Doctor. He currently serves as the Chairman of the Board at the Riordan Clinic. In addition to his full-time practice as a Holistic Medical Doctor at the Riordan Clinic, Dr. Ron has made multiple trips to several countries, like Japan, Spain, Ecuador, Colombia, New Zealand, Canada, and South Korea, to lecture on the Riordan IBC Protocol for Cancer. He is a past chairman of the International Schizophrenia Foundation and has been a regular presenter at their Orthomolecular Medicine Today Conference, which has been held annually in Canada for the past 30 years and many decades. 

Here at the Riordan Clinic, he has presented more than 300 lectures dealing with all facets of nutrition, lifestyle, and optimal health. He has co-authored three books on subjects including Inflammation, Energy-Boosting Supplements, and How to Stop Pre-diabetes. I’m excited because vitamin C is something that, I mean, is like the standard when you talk about cancer and patients come and say, What is the one thing that I need to do? Then vitamin C I.V. becomes the one thing. Talk to me a little bit about your fascination at Riordan Clinic. Why vitamin C? Why did that become such a big thing there?

Ron Hunninghake, MD

It is a fascinating story because Dr. Riordan was a psychiatrist. He died in 2005, but he did a lot of functional medicine conferences at 15 international conferences. In the process of trying to find out how he could take better care of his patients, he got into orthomolecular medicine, took large doses of medicine, and developed several friendships. And one was Linus Pauling. He was a good friend of Linus Pauling. Of course, Pauling, we have to go back to him and give him credit for really making the world aware of the value of high-dose vitamin C. Pauling’s wife had developed cancer, and he was giving her either ten or 12 grams of oral vitamin C a day with very good results. And that led him to initiate a study in Scotland. There, they studied over 134 hospice patients. 

Back in the seventies, there was, not much you could do for cancer at all. Then it got bad pain relief and hospice care. That is the type of patient—stage three and stage four—in this hospital. He developed controls. He had 435. He had about 800 controls matching them up. He gave ten grams of IV vitamin C continuously for ten days, ten grams a day, and then switched the patients over to 2.5 grams four times a day in a liquid vitamin C form that was very palatable. He found that comparing these patients to the controls, they lived 4–9 times longer during the study.

He published this, but no one believed him. They thought, How could just the low vitamin C make such a big difference in the quality of life of these patients? For some of the patients, they lived much longer than that. When he published it, there was criticism. One of the major institutions in the United States, so-called, replicated the study, but they did not give any IV vitamin C; they just gave oral vitamin C, and they did not get the same results. When they published their findings at Mayo Clinic, everyone decided to get behind Mayo Clinic and say, Well, see, vitamin C does not work. Pauling fought that vigorously but died in the process. 

After that, Dr. Riordan decided he would take up the flag and pursue this research on vitamin C because he had been using vitamin C for all kinds of things, including spider bites, chronic fatigue, schizophrenia, and whatnot. Sure, why not look into the whole cancer situation? He was able to generate several million dollars of research money, which he recruited five NIH researchers to come to Wichita for a total of 10 years and did very deep studies into vitamin C. Probably one of the most important was to develop a method of determining the ideal dose for each patient. Patients weigh differently. They have different degrees of severity of illness. The Riordan Protocol centers around the titration dosing of vitamin C so that you get a dose that you can expect to be significant. What a lot of people forget about is that we were able or he was able to show there was a very significant improvement in quality of life when patients did high doses of vitamin C, both I.V. and orthomolecular oral doses as well.

People think in terms of, yes, I am going to start IV vitamin C because I want to live longer, but I have got a list here of 16 quality of life benefits from using high dose vitamin C that has been accumulated over 12 international studies, and so that is what I think we are going to talk about today, Michael, is just the whole idea of how quality of life, how important it is that when you get that diagnosis, the big C and patients’ hope seems to plummet and they start feeling depressed. Then, of course, if they go into chemo and various conventional therapies, they have all kinds of side effects. 

Dr. Riordan was able to show that without interfering or improving outcomes with conventional therapy, he was also able to show that these patients significantly improved in their quality of life. I think that is something that I wanted to get out of today because for everyone who’s looking at a cancer diagnosis and a cancer treatment program, no matter what you do, if you add vitamin C to the program, you will feel much better. You will have anywhere from a 40 to 50% better outcome; at least it depends on how aggressive you are with treating the other ten terrains of the body. But vitamin C by itself stands out as a foundational therapy for cancer patients.

Michael Karlfeldt, ND, PhD

So as we go through, the different benefits of vitamin C, what are some of the mechanism items that are kind of the foundational component that will then translate into all these different benefits?

Ron Hunninghake, MD

Well, vitamin C is nature’s premier antioxidant. And my good friend, Dr. Thomas Levy, would say that the whole foundation of chronic illness is oxidative stress. In the natural world, most creatures, when they are stressed, injured, fatigued, or poisoned, start making more vitamin C. That was Dr. Pauling’s initial thought when he heard that goats normally take 2 to 3 grams of vitamin C a day just for routine maintenance, but if they are seriously ill or injured, they will make as much as 15 to 20 grams per day. That was his initial insight that there must be a mechanism here in terms of why nature allows this to happen. 

Now, we humans have the gene, but it is currently turned off, and we are looking into ways to turn it back on, by the way. But we do not; we have lost that ability. By using high doses of vitamin C, we reduce oxidative stress. Oxidative stress is what makes people depressed, tired, and achy pain, all the kinds of things that do not feel very good are due to oxidative stress. That is the fundamental tool mechanism. I am sure there are other factors, such as improvements in the immune system and reductions in inflammation. It does enhance endorphin production. There are several other mechanisms that vitamin C does. But this is all part of its role in creating a concert-type effect where the body braces itself and readies itself to deal with huge threats. Will they be psychological, physical, biochemical, or toxicological? Vitamin C works great for all those things.

Michael Karlfeldt, ND, PhD

The question always is,  we are talking about cancer patients now, and they frequently look at how I can combine things with the traditional oncology treatments that I am getting chemo and radiation are two common ones. How should they wait with vitamin C until they are done with chemo rounds, or is vitamin C a crucial part of that whole process?

Ron Hunninghake, MD

Well, our oncology colleagues have been very slow to accept IV vitamin C because they still think of high-dose vitamin C as an antioxidant. Certainly, it does have antioxidant properties. But in terms of cancer, vitamin C’s ability to slow or stop cancer is because it has a pro-oxidant effect. We can just briefly touch on that, namely, that when cancer cells lose their oxygen supply, they become hypoxic and driven. What happens is they shift into glycolysis, and actually, many times they are still in an anaerobic environment. But even still, they shift into glycolysis for several reasons that we will not get into. But in glycolysis, they are craving sugar. That is the main driver of cancer: sugar. 

The vitamin C molecule and the sugar molecule, the glucose molecule, are very similar for the simple reason that the enzyme we lack converts glucose into vitamin C, and in nature, where we have the enzyme, they can boost their vitamin C production, but we do not have that. When we give high doses of vitamin C to patients with cancer whose cells have shifted into glycolysis, there is a strong uptake of vitamin C through different mechanisms, which I will not go into. But once inside the cell at high levels, vitamin C will take the excess iron in cancer cells and reduce it.  Then, in the reduced state of iron, it generates the production of more and more hydrogen peroxide in the cell. Hydrogen peroxide is a significant pro-oxidant, obviously, and it is that pro-oxidant effect of the buildup of hydrogen peroxide that causes the cell to either die or, sometimes, return to more normal functioning.

But more often than not, cancer cells, because they lack catalase, cannot handle the hydrogen peroxide. They will die. There are all other mechanisms that we look at. But I think that is the primary mechanism by which vitamin C kills cancer cells. Most oncologists do not know this. They are still thinking vitamin C is an antioxidant. It is going to interfere, with their chemotherapy, radiation, and other treatments. Yet, the University of Iowa now has two major studies showing how IV vitamin C is effective. Of course, much research has been done at the  Riordan Clinic on rectal cancer, which is cancer spelled backward. It was a ten-year research project that Dr. Riordan undertook. We have got several, I think, 40 different publications. Then I think those I’m just thinking right now, those oh, there is University of Kansas, Jeanne Drisko did a very interesting study. 

That is actually what is going to be on my list. But let us just really quickly jump to that, because most of the time we advise patients, just so that they do not get into conflict with their oncologist, to just do their I.V. Vitamin C a day or two before their chemo or a day or so after the chemo so that they do not ruffle any feathers. But Dr. Drisko at the University of Kansas is studying ovarian cancer, and she had, I believe, 27 patients diagnosed with stage three or stage four; they were randomized. That means that the patients did not know, and the doctors did not know. They were randomized into two groups. They were all diagnosed by conventional oncologists and given their treatment plans. They followed the treatment plan.

But part of that was that they got a pre-chemohydration IV; half of them had vitamin C in it, anywhere from 75 to 105 grams in the pre-hydration IV. The doctors did not know that. No one knew; it was not until the study was over that they knew who got what. The group that got the IV vitamin C, and then was followed with the chemotherapy, had a much better outcome, a much improved quality of life, and fewer side effects. This is a direct study showing that vitamin C does not interfere with chemotherapy. On the other hand, because in the minds of most oncologists, it does, we kind of advise patients that they will still get benefits if they do their IVC a day or two before or a day or two after that. That is how we kind of advise patients along that line.

Michael Karlfeldt, ND, PhD

From my understanding, please correct me if I am wrong, is that the benefit also with doing it kind of right after chemo, not on the day, is that you kind of enhance that oxidative stress and you kind of prolong the kill of the chemo using vitamin C at a higher dose?

Ron Hunninghake, MD

The pro-oxygen effect of vitamin C is. When they are getting I.V. Vitamin C, if it runs out over time—anywhere from half an hour to two to three hours—depends on how much they are getting. In the early stages, they are getting an antioxidant effect. Then, as the vitamin C level is excreted, they are getting an antioxidant effect. They are getting both antioxidant and pro-oxidant benefits from using high-dose vitamin C. The antioxidant effects can reduce symptoms. Just in Dr. Drisko’s study alone, she was able to show improvements in neurologic symptoms, including less bone marrow suppression, better liver and pancreas functioning, better kidney and genital urinary functioning, less incidence of infection in the lungs, and better gastrointestinal feelings. Overall, in addition to showing a dramatic improvement in survival and quality of life, the patient felt better if they got vitamin C along with their chemotherapy.

Michael Karlfeldt, ND, PhD

In regards to quality of life, we mentioned, that it is such an important component because a lot of times when people come to an oncologist and they have stage four cancer, the oncologist can only offer palliative care, saying that if we do this chemotherapy, we can maybe prolong your life for a few months or half a year. But obviously, that comes with a huge cost and a poor quality of life. How can vitamin C and IV-C help these patients in terms of quality of life? Because that becomes so important to them and also to the people around them. I mean, the people, the family members, want to spend as much quality time with their loved ones as possible and also make sure that they are as comfortable as possible.

Ron Hunninghake, MD

Well, in preparation for our discussion today, I was able to pick out 12 published studies on the use of vitamin C in various types of cancer and various situations. From that, we extracted that there are 16 quality-of-life benefits that vitamin C can offer patients. I am going to just give that in general terms. But if our studies highlighted different parts of this, if you put the studies all together, IV vitamin C helps reduce pain in patients. That is a big one. That is what shows up. Cancer patients may have pain from their cancer, but they may also have pain from the treatment. There was much less pain, sometimes completely the opposite of pain. At the end of our presentation, remind me that I have a case that I want to go over that highlights this point. There is less fever, less bleeding, easier breathing, a better overall sense of well-being and functioning, better sleep, less fatigue, and less dizziness. 

There can be times when the brain is oftentimes affected by strong chemo, which can lead to some dizziness and a better appetite. Of course, that is a major issue with cancer patients: less nausea and vomiting and better bowel functioning, because the bowel takes it on the chin with a lot of the standard therapies. A better sense of overall well-being, a sense of hope, an improved mood, less anxiety, and a better cognitive sense—the brain’s thinking seems to be clearer as a result of taking vitamin C.

In my books, you know, we could sit and argue, okay, should we use vitamin C? Is it going to prolong life? Is that how much better? I mean, that is all important information that needs to be worked out, but just for the benefit of quality of life alone, I think IV vitamin C more than pays for itself. It is a cost. It is the difficulties of finding it and achieving a regular intake of vitamin C, as well as the opposition that patients will face when they mention to their doctors that they want to use IV vitamin C as part of their program. Oftentimes, they are ridiculed and downright thrown out of the office. More and more, though, I think IV vitamin C is kind of gradually finding its place. There is more acceptance than there was when Dr. Riordan did his research in the 90s. He conducted a ten-year study on that research. It ended in 2000. He died in 2005. But in my experience, we find more people getting support from their oncologists, especially as we have a stronger integrative oncology movement afoot. 

Thank goodness for the integrative oncologists who are working now and then, I think there are over 100 registered oncologists who are naturopathic oncologists who are doing a fantastic job of making conventions and are helping conventional oncologists see that if they use some of this use of IV vitamin C and some of the other interventions, it makes the oncologists look better because the patient feels better and has a better quality of life. Overall, that’s also going to result in better outcomes. When people feel better, they have the will to live. I know a lot of cancer patients who, when they get into the depths of pain, agony, and despair, lose hope and their will to live. I think IV vitamin C can give that back to people.

Michael Karlfeldt, ND, PhD

I agree with you; I see that locally quite a bit. When the local oncologists see the difference or the patients that are receiving this type of care receive vitamin C, I.V., and other integrative care, how they look better, their energy is better, and they are handling the medical treatment better. One of the challenges is always with chemo. You want to find that sweet spot where you do not do too much, where you kill the patient, and you do not do too little so that you do not have an impact on the tumor or enough impact. That is a hard place. I mean, over time, they have refined dosing and timing, but that is still a challenge. Being able to support the individual who is receiving traditional oncology so that they can fulfill the recommended dosage is very important and should be told to the oncologists. For us to be there alongside them to strengthen the patient so that they can fully do what they need to do to reduce the tumor burden, is important. I see that the local oncologists appreciate that.

Ron Hunninghake, MD

More and more, it is happening. There are still a lot of oncology holdouts out there. Nevertheless, if they would take a look at this, and this is kind of why I think the summit is such a great idea, hopefully, some of them are going to listen in because, as I said, this can make their outcomes better. We are working for the same thing: the survival and quality of life of cancer patients. We are all on the same page. I think in the past, a lot of oncologists were concerned that patients were either going to go one way or the other, and that certainly is the patient’s prerogative. We certainly help patients, no matter which way they decide to go. But if they do look at a complementary and integrative approach, I think both sides will feel better. 

I certainly remember when people would come to me and say, Okay, I am going to get my vitamin C, and this is going to fix my cancer, I would say, Well, yes, it will help a lot, but there is a lot more to overcome this illness. This is a difficult disease. We need all hands on deck and the best blend of the best approaches. The nice thing is that some of the problems of conventional chemotherapy and radiation therapy can be ameliorated through the use of IV vitamin C. You can use the best of both worlds and have fewer side effects and better outcomes.

Michael Karlfeldt, ND, PhD

Yes. As you mentioned the 16 different benefits, in regards to just the benefit of the issue of sexiness with weight loss and loss of appetite. That is a big, big one. When you are undergoing traditional oncology care. Just that alone is a huge reason.

Ron Hunninghake, MD

Absolutely. Yes. These studies that I am quoting here come from all over the world, I have one from Germany where they looked at 53 breast cancer patients with 72 controls, and they found that just giving it 7.5 grams once a week—not a big dose, but giving them IV, got something you can boost if they give it a push. We know from our pharmacokinetic studies that this will bring the blood level, which is normally 1 to 2 milligrams per deciliter, up to as high as 100 milligrams per deciliter. Now normally we shoot for 350 to 400, but even bringing it up that much, they had decreased nausea, fatigue, depression, dizziness, bleeding, and general complaints; their overall quality of life scores doubled; they had a better appetite; and they rested better. That is 53 patients that got I.V. Vitamin C over in Germany, breast cancer patients, and so that was back in 2011. If you can get that kind of result with 7.5, you are going to get, I think, better results when you go to the higher doses.

Michael Karlfeldt, ND, PhD

You have been part of the Riordan Clinic now, you can see here that it is been more than three decades.

Ron Hunninghake, MD

35 years.

Michael Karlfeldt, ND, PhD

35 years, that’s quite a while. During that time, you have had the opportunity to observe a lot of people through this process. What are some of the stories or observations that you have made regarding all of this? Just your life is a study in itself.

Ron Hunninghake, MD

Yes. Dr. Levy made me calculate the number of patients that we have got—not just cancer patients, but the number of patients for which we have given I.V. Vitamin C at the Riordan Clinic or set them up to do a home IV Vitamin C. We are in the 150,000 range right now. What I see is people consistently feeling better, and I do not hardly ever get a complaint. There are no complaints about vitamin C. One of the things that helped me understand how powerful this was was when my wife was diagnosed with breast cancer about 22 years ago. She underwent radiation therapy. She had a lumpectomy and then radiation. Three nights a week, when she was a busy teacher, she came. By the way, in that case, the radiation oncologist was not wanting her to do the IV vitamin C, and we invited him. 

This was still during the time that the redneck process was going on. I invited him for lunch along with the five specialists. The researchers chose to come in and talk to him about the mechanism. It was not a pushy thing. It was just like, Let us do the research; here is what we know. We think this will help. He agreed to go ahead and have my wife get the IV vitamin C three times a week. He did six weeks of radiation, and she had almost no side effects. She was able to teach second grade during that whole time.

The fascinating thing with that story, though, is that later on he would not allow other patients. I think it was more pressure from his colleagues. There is another reason: a lot of doctors do not want to stand out as someone different in their realm. He saw, and he knew that she did very well and I recently saw him with his wife, came to the clinic, and he acknowledged that he said, Yes, your wife did well, but we did not go any further than that. That is a good example of how people can change their thinking. They can open their minds and say, Ah, and realize that there is a non-toxic, effective strategy for helping patients not only have a better outcome but heal better along the way.

Michael Karlfeldt, ND, PhD

What are the other times when Vitamin C should not be taken while undergoing any traditional oncology care?

Ron Hunninghake, MD

Well, Dr. Michael Gonzalez has a chart. I think there is one key. I think it is something, I am trying to remember, but there is only one drug that is an absolute contraindication. Otherwise, we think that it could be used with just about any other treatment. It is just that, it is not, for the most part. To my knowledge, there is not a big worry if the patient wants to come in the same day or if they want to do a pre-IV vitamin C. Just like Dr. Drisko’s study. I do not think there is a big contraindication. Just because you want to try to maintain a good relationship with the oncologist, give him the information. As I said, the information that I am using is part of a handout that we are in the process of writing a book on. Vitamin C, and this is an appendix that we will have in the book. It is a Quality of Life Survey. I sent a copy of it to you, but I think if patients would give this to their doctors, where they saw that there is research to back this up, it would be much more effective, and the doctor would be more likely to say yes if he has some data. You know, the oncologists want to see the data. I think this may be a useful tool for patients who want to use this.

Michael Karlfeldt, ND, PhD

Yes, absolutely. What would be the optimum frequency? I know that the dosage depends a lot, that is what you have worked hard on depending on the severity of the case, as well as the size of the individual and so many other factors. But what is the common frequency and length of treatment, and what are some general guidelines for people out there?

Ron Hunninghake, MD

We have our new cancer patients come to the Riordan Clinic for what we call IV-C titration. On the first day, we use just 15 grams of IV vitamin C so that we can also draw a G6PD because that is a very infrequent issue. If they are low in G6PD, their red blood cell membranes are more fragile, and the oxidative stress of high-dose vitamin C could cause hemolysis. In my 35 years, I have probably seen maybe eight or nine cases where they had borderline G6PD. We have never had that happen at our clinic, but we are very cautious about doing the G6PD. We do 15 grams that first day if it is good. On the second day, we do 50 grams. If they are an advanced cancer patient, sometimes we will do just a 25. But 50 grams is what we are more typically doing now. Then we do a post-IVC saturation level to find out whether or not they are hitting that 350 to 400 range. 

Then we also, if that does not do it, go to a 75 the next day and do a post-C, and then more and more now we are going to a third or a fourth day, a 100. If they do not hit the 350 to 400 range we do a vitamin C immediately, within about 5 minutes after the infusion in the opposite arm, and in the past, that has been a problem for people to get laboratory vitamin C levels. A lot of people use the glucometer method, which unfortunately is not all that accurate, but it is the only thing that is available for a lot of people because they had trouble getting a specimen to us. We now had it centrifuged, but most offices do not have a centrifuge. We now have kits that do not require centrifuging. If someone wants to do post-IVC saturation testing, it can now be done just about anywhere in the country, and they can send it to us. Our lab will run it and give a very specific post-IVC level.

Once we have that level, we start patients on either a twice-a-week or sometimes three-times-a-week infusion of vitamin C, and we have an interval between those. You can do it on a sequential basis. But I think it is better to have a gap between the IVs to get the most benefit from it.

Michael Karlfeldt, ND, PhD

And then?

Ron Hunninghake, MD

We continue that, it depends on the case. Anywhere from three to six to maybe even six months, nine months, or a year. It depends on what status the patient has and how they are doing. We have several patients that come in once a month. They are cancer patients that are gone into remission, but they still come in once a month for an IV of vitamin C, just to kind of give their immune system a boost, a detoxification effect, and to see if there are any lingering cancer cells to try to shoot those down.

Michael Karlfeldt, ND, PhD

Yes, that is great. Well, there was something that I was supposed to remind you of at the end. I think there was a case that you wanted to discuss at the end of this.

Ron Hunninghake, MD

Oh, yes, I have all these case studies that have been published. I have one that is not published, but it is a very compelling story that I wanted to end up with. This was probably about, I would say, five or six months ago, when we had a woman from, I think, Georgia. She had stage four rectal cancer. She had been radiated; she had been chemo; everything had been done; and nothing was working. She had a large fungating mass growing at the rectal anal opening. She was very anemic, with hemoglobin around six, and was very tired. But she had heard about vitamin C, and her goal was to make it to her daughter’s wedding, which was going to be like two and a half months down the road. So she came to our center, not so much looking for a cure because she had tried all the various things, but just to get well, and, oh, by the way, she was on six OxyContin tablets a day throughout the day to help with her pain. She was in a pretty desperate state, but she had heard that vitamin C could help her stabilize and slow the progression of the tumor.

We were doing 75 grams of I.V. Vitamin C three times a week. We were watching her hemoglobin closely. It got very low. But as time went on, the number of opioids that she had to take decreased, and finally, when she left at the end of a month of staying with us, she was completely off of her pain medicine and feeling much better, feeling more hopeful. She made it to her daughter’s wedding and she called us to thank us for helping her achieve that. It was probably within a week or two after that that she passed. I just feel, Hey, this is kind of what vitamin C is all about.

We had one other case where a lady was on her deathbed and was in a coma. The family asked that we, with a couple of our nurses, drive out and give her vitamin C, and they did, and by golly, she woke up during the I.V. Vitamin C. Talked with her family, and then said goodbye. Then later that day, she died. There are some compelling stories in terms of how vitamin C can help with quality of life because ultimately, that is all we are asking for in this world: quality of life. No one knows how long we are going to live. It doesn’t matter what you are dealing with anything can happen. But if you can enjoy life better, have better energy, a sense of well-being, reduced pain, and those kinds of things, that is a lot. That is why I think this is something that is sometimes overlooked in terms of why IV vitamin Ciss very special and precious for people. So, thank you for allowing me to be on the program so I could kind of get this message out.

Michael Karlfeldt, ND, PhD

Well, Dr. Hunninghake.

Ron Hunninghake, MD

Thank you, Michael, for what you are doing.

Michael Karlfeldt, ND, PhD

Thank you so much. These stories are so powerful and I just kind of recognize that and the value. Yes, maybe these people did not survive and get rid of their cancer. But the value of that last moment in life is how important it is to be able to communicate with your family and to be there for your daughter’s wedding. I mean, these are so important. So thank you so much, Dr. Hunninghake.