The Role Of Drainage In Hormonal Health

Caitlin Czezowski, DC, CFMP, CACCP

Thank you so much. You’re 100% accurate, with detox being a buzzword. Everybody, I feel, is talking about it, but they’re not talking about the whole story behind it. I’m sure you’re the same. I hear and see all of the bad outcomes from it because things weren’t prepared beforehand or their bodies weren’t fully prepared before doing it. Then they’re completely put off because they’re, I feel worse than before. I’ve gotten away from talking a whole bunch about detoxing because there’s a huge step that has to be done before you can even do that now, which, you’re right, most people don’t even talk about.

Aumatma Simmons, ND, FABNE, MS

Yes. Let’s maybe start there. What is the difference between detox and drainage for people who are brand new or have only heard about detox? They’re like, What the heck are you guys talking about?

Caitlin Czezowski, DC, CFMP, CACCP

Yes. The buzzword with detox is that most people are talking about being either in one or two camps. One is that you don’t need to do any detox because you have organs that do it for you, which I get. But we’ll talk about why that’s not 100% foolproof all the time. Then the other camp is, okay, we need to take things to detox. They’re usually taking either chelator, so things that are going to pull, or killers if they’re going to do a parasite purge, or they’re taking different herbs to ultimately cause your body to remove those toxins that are built up in your system. The problem with that is your drainage pathways, which a lot of people think drainage and detox are different. It’s not. When I use the word detox; I’m talking about using substances to chelate or kill, just as I mentioned. But drainage is what all of our bodies are meant to do regularly to prevent those toxins from accumulating and just building up in our systems in the first place. 

What I find that happens for most people just living in today’s world is that, because we’re surrounded by toxins, we find that there are 300 and something toxins found in cord blood. Kids are born with toxins before they even take their first breath, which comes from mold in the environment. What ends up happening is that our body has filters and these functions are built in to help clear those toxins. But because we are just bombarded with toxins every single day, from water, air, and food to the clothes we wear to the products we put on and in. It’s just coming from everywhere. 

Our drainage organs, which are our kidneys, our liver, our gut, our lymph, our lungs, and our skin, end up being overworked in a sense. Imagine your employer is saying, Hey, I need you to work an extra hour every day. Initially, you’d be able to do it, and nothing else would fail. You may even have to pick up a job or two, a task or two because somebody else isn’t quite doing its job. But eventually, over time, you would get burned out, especially if the work kept coming and you kept having to do more and more work. Well, that’s what happens with those drainage organs. so they get congested or they start to malfunction in the sense that they’re not performing all of those functions. What happens is that not all of those toxins that we are exposed to get broken down and eliminated either via sweating, urine, or feces because our body just can’t do it. Before anybody can, or should do a detox or a parasite purge, they have to go and support those organs and drainage pathways so that when they do start taking things, that means pulling those toxins that have built up in our body so that they can be eliminated and removed. Now, the whole reason you’re accumulating them is because those drainage pathways just aren’t draining. They’re not normal. That’s what I find to be the biggest thing that gets missed or overstepped.

Aumatma Simmons, ND, FABNE, MS

Yes. It’s a detox in which you pull out and get rid of stuff. But drainage is the underlying system that is going to clear that stuff out. It’s the liver, the kidneys, the gut, and the lymph. I think I missed one.

Caitlin Czezowski, DC, CFMP, CACCP

Lungs and skin—those are one.

Aumatma Simmons, ND, FABNE, MS

Skin, and that’s a big one. Let’s not forget the skin.

Caitlin Czezowski, DC, CFMP, CACCP

But yes, it does tend to be the big ones, and the one that I find that honestly gets overlooked all the time is lymph. For most providers, whether they’re an M.D., a DC, a functional, a naturopath, or a health coach, there are tons of amazing providers out there. They tend to focus on the liver and gut, and maybe the kidneys if the kidneys show up as a problem. But lymph is very rarely talked about. I find that because of how we live, that’s one of the ones that need the most attention by ultimately just changing some minor lifestyle hacks because our lymph is what removes the waste products from every tissue cell and organ in our body.

Aumatma Simmons, ND, FABNE, MS

Yes.

Caitlin Czezowski, DC, CFMP, CACCP

If that’s not working, we end up having a whole bunch of other problems, not to mention lymph also helps with hormone regulation and distribution, and it helps with digestion and the absorption of fatty acids. There are just so many things that the lymph does, and more often than not, it gets completely forgotten about.

Aumatma Simmons, ND, FABNE, MS

Yes. You’re so right. I have a funny story. There was a woman who came to us. We had to give her some herbs for her fibroids, and I know this, but the herbs that we gave her were Chinese medicine—herbs that stimulate the liver to clear estrogen as well as congestion in the pelvis out of the body. However, after she started taking it, she was like, My skin’s freaking out, and I feel weird and itchy all the time. I know what’s happening. Then we were. Okay, maybe you start with some dry skin brushing, and two days later, the symptoms are gone. I’m good. Does your body. the drainage. We’re going to get into dry skin brushing, I’m sure. But having those superhighways open to get these toxins that you’re trying to move out of the body, the lymph, is super important. If that’s backed up or if that has a traffic jam, then it’s going to be hard to get those things out, and they’re going to cause symptoms. What are some of those signs and symptoms that could maybe have us thinking in the back of our minds? Maybe it’s the drainage pathways that are congested.

Caitlin Czezowski, DC, CFMP, CACCP

Yes. That’s such a great question. I see that happen all the time. When you work on one drainage pathway. The liver, or even the uterus, is a drainage pathway that a lot of us don’t talk about, and we don’t talk about having a regular cycle. What does that look like? The color and the consistency. How important. But what I find and what I’ve heard over and over again and what I’ve seen with my one-on-one clients: when we start working on one thing, it will show us where other problems are, because that’s okay, great. But now I have to get this out, and the only way out is through the skin. People, this is the worst thing ever—just your body communicating. We just had to make some minor tweaks, which you did to provide the body with the actual capability of removing those toxins. I love that you did that. Some of the symptoms are things like allergies, and people are what? Allergies and their allergies? It can be seasonal. It could be too much animal dander; it could be too many mites. It could be whatever bloating is another, brain fog, it can be achy joints, especially in the morning, it can be a headache, it can be digestive issues, and fill in the blank with digestive issues because there are so many out there, it can get swollen, tender breasts during different parts of your cycle. 

There’s also estrogen dominance, which could also be due to low progesterone. We can have many reasons why we have estrogen dominance. That can be things like cysts, fibroids, or even endometriosis to some degree. There are all sorts of things that fall into that category, and then we can talk about food sensitivity. Is this one of those things that can be due to drainage pathways being backed up and congested? There are so many different things that could be the reason why somebody has a symptom. A lot of those are linked to lymph. Also dry, itchy skin rashes, or eczema, depending on what part of the world you’re in, all of those things. I do believe it’s because all of those drainage pathways do work together, and lymph and skin tend to go hand in hand. That was my big question. What in the heck is going on with me? It was my lymph showing up on my skin. It’s because most of our lymph, 70%, is just below the surface of our skin. It’s in the dermis layer. It’s some of the muscle; it’s above the fat tissue. It shows us exactly what is happening. It’s not always fine. Believe me, I’ve been there, but it lets. Hey, there’s something else going on that needs some support, and some adjusting to clear it all up.

Aumatma Simmons, ND, FABNE, MS

Yes. Are there tools or things that people can use, maybe at home, that help support the movement of this lymph?

Caitlin Czezowski, DC, CFMP, CACCP

Yes. I think what’s important to talk about is what causes a limb to even become congested or stagnant in the first place because there are things that you can specifically do to start getting that moving, which is also going to take pressure off of your gut and liver because people are, I started doing this, and I’m having three bowel movements a day where before I was having them every other day. Yes. Those are right there. What are some things that cause congestion? One is sitting. We’re stationary and alone. I know this working thing puts a damper on overall health and wellness, which is one of the reasons why I have a standing desk. I even have a walking treadmill that goes under my desk to try and limit the sheer amount of time that I’m just sitting there. But sitting is what it does when we’re not contracting our muscles, and since our lymph does not have a pump of its own or a circulatory system, the circulatory system’s heart pumps all of the blood everywhere. 

The lymphatic system is the mirror of the circulatory system. Circular circulation brings oxygen and nutrition to every tissue and organ. As a result, all of the byproducts, the waste products of making cellular energy from metabolism, go into the lymphatic system. It’s the sewage system in our body. The way that the lymphatic system works is by creating pressure gradients and by pumping our muscles. Contracting or muscles, get our heart rate up because life lies next to our arteries. Now your arteries are pumping, it’s also helping to pump lymphatic fluid. We have to be less stationary and move our bodies more. That’s the first thing. Another thing that massively restricts our lymphatic fluid, since we don’t have a pump and it’s not just going to automatically pump, is wearing tight clothing. One of the biggest culprits is underwire bras. Women hate when I say this, especially larger-chested women, and I get it. I have to wear it, though otherwise I don’t have support. it’s X-Y-Z. I’m not telling you not to wear them. I’m just going to suggest that you only wear it for as long as you have to. then, when you take it off, do some lymphatic drainage routine to get that lymphatic fluid that was stagnant and stuck while you were wearing that clothing. It doesn’t move just because it can be tight underwear. You’ll go. Yes, I’m guilty. I still wear it. But when I take it off, I do something to get it moving, like socks that are too tight or even bracelets or watches that are too tight. If it leaves a mark on your skin, it’s not flowing. It’s not draining while you’re wearing it. Do something after you take it off to get that fluid moving. 

Some other things can be conventional dairy can be very muconogenic, meaning it thickens your lymphatic fluid, which makes it harder to move. Some people are super sensitive to dairy. I usually tell them, Let’s take it out, and let’s just see what happens. I’m willing to bet about 90% of the time they’re working better. It’s just because conventional dairy is not. It’s ultimately causing increased mucus production. I’m sure you’ve talked about that before. Sometimes a better option is the best option if you’re going to do it raw, organic, or grass-fed. People tend to do better on that. That’s not an option compared to going to organic grass. If you can’t do it raw and just see, then maybe just don’t do as much. 

What are some of the big things? Not to mention dehydration. If we’re dehydrated, water is going to be pulled from our lymphatic fluid for other functions, which is then going to thicken our lymph fluids. Instead of being nice and fluid water, it becomes more molasses, which, as you can imagine, makes moving molasses harder than moving water. Those are a few things that cause congestion that I always recommend people start with. Again, move, because when you get your lymphatic fluid moving, you’ll see other improvements in your gut health. You’ll see and feel better improvements in your hormone health, even lymph transport and progesterone. I love or struggle with estrogen dominance, too low progesterone, or if you’re taking progesterone, you’re lymphatic fluid. Everything has to be working for those two hormones to be in check. I won’t dove into it because I know that you guys have talked about it as she gets around, probably to the moon and back. But yes, having flowing lymph is necessary to have that balance between estrogen and progesterone.

Aumatma Simmons, ND, FABNE, MS

Yes, and I don’t know that I knew that progesterone moves through that’s different and that it feels relatively important. Is there a reason that we move one through the limb and not the other?

Caitlin Czezowski, DC, CFMP, CACCP

Yes, so I think it has to do with, and they’re still learning more and more about this, but I think it has to do with the fat-soluble nature of progesterone compared to other things because one of the jobs of lymph is also absorbing our fatty acids and our fat-soluble vitamins. I think that what they will find is that those are going to go hand in hand. Now what I tell you is that my women are taking progesterone, and you better be doing a little lymphatic routine if you want the most out of that replacement therapy that you’re doing, or even if you’re taking stuff to increase your progesterone naturally, you still need it to be moving around. That’s 100% one of the things that I always recommend they do. Then the other thing would be to open up their lymph nodes because the more that you can decongest, the more lymph nodes are doors. They’re either open, their closed vessels, or the hallways. You can’t move the fluid in the hallway if there’s a closed door; it’s just not going to happen. Imagine a group of people in a convention center, and you’re trying to get from one room to another, but the doors shut and lock. You can’t get to that other room that you’re trying to get to. By opening up and decongesting the lymph nodes, that’s going to better allow fluid to flow through. 

I teach some different things, but the specific seven are the minimum that I believe people should be doing. Then the total 12 is going to be more of a full body, making sure everything’s open so that your brain can drain, which is why you want better brain function and just better flow, especially if somebody is retaining fluid in their feet or their hands, that type of thing. Those are probably the things that I typically start with. Most people say, Let’s do some things to reduce the amount of congestion that we’re creating based on our lifestyle, whether in one movement getting up every hour, maybe getting a standing desk, going for a walk after dinner, or whatever it may be, reducing the amount of time that we wear tight clothing, reducing the amount of dairy, increasing our water consumption, and then implementing lymph node techniques and massages to get stuff moving in the right direction. Usually, when people implement those things, they see a pretty massive difference and improvement. Then when we start implementing things like manual lymphatic massage, dry brushing, or gua sha, things improve even more just because we’re influencing the lymph vessels and the fluid in the vessels versus just the notes.

Aumatma Simmons, ND, FABNE, MS

Okay, cool. I think that makes a lot of sense: reduce the things that are going to cause congestion first. That seems like a smart thing to say. Then do the big one—the nodes that are going to control all of these. Those are the control mechanisms and then clear the highway.

Caitlin Czezowski, DC, CFMP, CACCP

Yes, tollbooths, open up, unlock, and open the doors, and then let the traffic through them just move so nicely. When people learn it in that version, they’re like, No wonder it didn’t work before this. They were starting in the wrong location. Because the big thing that I find prevents people from getting results when they do lymphatic drainage is that they don’t follow what I call the three principles of lymphatic drainage. First is the amount of pressure. Most of the time, people are putting on way too much pressure. Then lymph is not massaged muscles; lymph is on top of muscles. It needs a lot less, and it responds to a lighter touch. It responds to the stretch mechanism. If we go too hard, we’re not going to get results. The next one is the order. the order that we’re doing things and meaning, especially with lymph nodes, you’re not going to start at your ankles if all of your fluids drain at your collarbone; you got to start where it drains. You got to move the car closest to the traffic jam, the first power versus the last part. You can’t move the last car in front of it; it just doesn’t work. Then the third thing is the direction. Meaning all the cars have to be going in the right direction. You can’t be driving down a one-way street the wrong way. No, those three things do need to be applied. When you understand them, people are saying, this is working and seeing amazing results. I’m getting an armpit back again, or my bloating is gone, or my cycle is improving, or I’m less moody, or I don’t have breast tenderness. It’s just because they started to clear the gunk that was preventing them from draining and removing all of the waste products that their body was accumulating.

Aumatma Simmons, ND, FABNE, MS

What are the Big Seven? Is there an order to what the Big Seven needs to be in?

Caitlin Czezowski, DC, CFMP, CACCP

Yes, there’s always an order.

Aumatma Simmons, ND, FABNE, MS

I’m going to be able to remember it, that’s the big one.

Caitlin Czezowski, DC, CFMP, CACCP

This is what I will do for you guys. I’ll give it to you guys however you want to do it, especially. I’ll give it to your listeners, or maybe something special for whatever, but I’ll give it to you guys to make it easy. It’s always termini. Termini is above your collarbones. This is where all of the lymphatic fluid drains. Toes, head, breast, fingers, stomach—it all drains above her collarbone. This is the first one. The second one is our tonsil, or node. This is going to help with draining our brain, training our face, and making sure that everything from here can drain down to our termini. That’s two. Number three is apical. Apical is under our bra strap for females or on the inside when you roll your shoulder in below your collarbone; this one helps string breast tissue. This one helps drain the fluid from our armpits. This is an important one. This one is usually the one that gets missed, which is very.

Aumatma Simmons, ND, FABNE, MS

I have a question, and since I’m doing it with you, should we feel anything in this area, or is it just somewhere we’re assuming that we’re in the right place?

Caitlin Czezowski, DC, CFMP, CACCP

Yes. You’re not necessarily going to feel anything for a lot of these lymph nodes unless they’re swollen. You may feel or see swelling. If, when you’re looking at your collarbones, you have swelling above or below your collarbones, like fluid, there’s congestion. Things aren’t draining properly, which means that doors are closed, which means fluid can’t go through, which means the immune system can’t do its job. Then what I recommend is that you slowly work on those nodes. Just because you can’t feel a node doesn’t mean that it’s open. But if you can feel a node, it means that it’s at least partially closed. If not closed that needs to be decongested. The apical is number three, and the armpits the crux of your armpit on the inside of your pec major is the next one. That’s number four. The Cisterna Chyli is the one that is in our abdomen. This one tends to be tender for most people. This one you will never feel because it runs along your spinal column, and this is the one that drains all of the fluid from your organs and your legs up to your thoracic area so that it goes back to your circulatory system and drains. The next one is your groin. Number six is the groin along the inside of our thighs, right where our abdomen is creased down the middle, and then the last one is behind the knee. 

Those are the big seven, and then you open them up in that order, and then you always finish at the termini. Think about it: if your fluid is thicker and it’s not draining very well, but you start to get things moving, You just want to make sure that the area where it drains is clear. I always start and finish here just to ensure that I’m creating that pressure gradient because it’s the lowest pressure, whereas fingers, toes, high pressure, fluid high pressure, and too low pressure. We know that from our high school things class. We just want to always make sure that we keep this pressure low. When there’s congestion here, it becomes high pressure, which means there’s no vacuum. It’s not sucking that fluid up to drain.

Aumatma Simmons, ND, FABNE, MS

Got it. Okay. The abdomen one I missed, how do we locate it?

Caitlin Czezowski, DC, CFMP, CACCP

That one’s halfway between your belly button and your sternum. Right where your rib cage comes together, it’s a halfway point between your belly button and your stratum.

Aumatma Simmons, ND, FABNE, MS

Okay. If it sounded that way, that one is fairly deep and close to the spine. 

Caitlin Czezowski, DC, CFMP, CACCP

You can’t go deep when you do it. But still, when people do it, you’re only going about an inch, maybe two inches deep. It doesn’t depend on the size of the individual. Even if you’re a plus-size individual or a bodybuilder, the pressure is going to be the same. But that one tends to be tender when you do it. Because I honestly believe that since the thoracic duct is draining all the fluid from our organs or the lower abdomen or legs, there’s a lot of congestion that can happen there. Congestion drives inflammation, and inflammation drives that uncomfortable sensation. When people do that one, they may even feel a little rush feel you might throw up. Okay, back off. Don’t push as hard. That probably means you need to do more of it.

Aumatma Simmons, ND, FABNE, MS

Totally. I feel that one. That’s what I thought.

Caitlin Czezowski, DC, CFMP, CACCP

Well, that one is tender, and it can even be tender on me, especially if I’m sitting more and doing more desk work kind of stuff. Then I go through, I’m, I got some weird congestion that I got to work out there. the more that you do it because, remember, the more that we do things that cause stagnation, the more we have to do things to get things moving. In my personal opinion, I do believe that we should be doing something for our lymphatic system every day, something for our drainage systems. It’s for our overall health. We know movement is life; when we’re not moving very much, we’re going to end up with problems. I just find that when I’m not moving my body as much, I get more stagnation. It’s just a good reminder because then I’m not supposed to be sitting 10 hours a day.

Aumatma Simmons, ND, FABNE, MS

Yes. When we figure out how to work less.

Caitlin Czezowski, DC, CFMP, CACCP

Looking up, if you have to work 10 hours, try to get up every 15 minutes and just move your body.

Aumatma Simmons, ND, FABNE, MS

Yes. How long do you need to move for it to be effective?

Caitlin Czezowski, DC, CFMP, CACCP

Yes, everyone’s going to be different, honestly. For some people, I’ll tell them, Hey, if you can work your way up to 10 minutes on a trampoline or a rebounder, that’s going to be equivalent to 30 minutes of cardiovascular jogging exercise. If you do vibration plates, I usually do 10 minutes of that just until I’m vibrated up, but everyone’s going to be different. What I can say, though, is get up, go get some water, and go pee. Even if you just shake it out, move your body, and contract your muscles, you will be happier and healthier in the long run. Now, 10 minutes, though, once a day is not going to be sufficient because you still have to move your body. We have to build muscles. We had to get our heart rate up. We have to do all those things. But just not having those stationary or long stationary periods is going to massively improve all of your overall drainage pathways and how they work together.

Aumatma Simmons, ND, FABNE, MS

Yes. Awesome. Is any of this okay to do while pregnant or breastfeeding, or is it not so great?

Caitlin Czezowski, DC, CFMP, CACCP

Great question. I can tell you, I probably get asked this 50 times a week on my social media accounts, too. What I always recommend is the first trimester. I wouldn’t do a whole lot of it. I would only termini. The reason is that the first trimester is just so delicate. We don’t want to be doing a whole lot, especially if this is brand new to you. I wouldn’t recommend doing this during the first trimester. Now, second trimester, third trimester. Generally speaking, it’s fine as long as it’s not a high-risk pregnancy. If somebody has pre-eclampsia or things like that, I would say no, because doing lymphatic drainage can increase or put more pressure on our kidneys and increase blood pressure more because we’re returning more fluid back to the circulatory system, so long as it’s not a high-risk pregnancy. Absolutely. 

What I found and what people have told me is that, when I started doing this in my second pregnancy, I didn’t have swollen ankles, and I didn’t have as much fluid retention as I did in the first pregnancy. Yes, it’s generally safe second and third trimesters, and then breastfeeding again, is generally safe so long as there’s nothing else crazy going on. One thing I do recommend, depending on the situation, is that these women take a clean binder, activated charcoal, or something else to absorb anything that their body is moving or releasing. We just don’t want it to go to the baby, depending on what you have going on, especially if you have detox symptoms when you do it. I hear this a lot. I started doing this, and it gave me the flu, or it gave me a headache, or it gave me a cold, or it gave me a sinus infection. 

Okay, lymphatic drainage isn’t going to give you that. It is going to, however, expose you to or show you what has been stuck in your lymphatic system for who knows how long. if you had or have a chronic infection that’s been sitting in your lymphatic system for a year, five years, 10 years, 20 years, 30 years, whatever, and you finally wake up the lymphatic system and get things moving. All of a sudden, because our lymphatic system is also part of our immune system, I can finally address this. You may have symptoms of that, but it did not give you those symptoms. It’s just alerting you that something is going on. 

In this case, I would also recommend that those individuals take some type of binder, slow down the amount of lymphatic drainage they’re taking, drink more water to flush things out, and just listen to their bodies. That’s the big thing. Your body’s telling you and showing you, Hey, guess what? You had a lot of garbage stuck in there, and now you’re waking us up. It’s turning the light on, and now you’re the whole mess, and you’re, Okay, where do I start? That’s usually what I recommend for pregnant, breastfeeding individuals, or even just individuals who are trying to get pregnant. They have those types of symptoms: taking clean binders, slowing things down, and drinking water, usually good first starting steps.

Aumatma Simmons, ND, FABNE, MS

Yes. Okay, awesome. Then is there a point at which they should be doing dry skin brushing, or I don’t know if I’ve seen this? You use this tapping motion to move the lymph. I don’t know if I could do anything.

Caitlin Czezowski, DC, CFMP, CACCP

Yes, I think manual lymphatic massage is just using your hands, and you’re manually moving the fluid in your leg muscles. Yes, there is a time to do that. But I would say it’s after you master opening up the lymph nodes. Know what? That’s the big thing. People are. How do I know? How do to do it? Do you feel some changes happening? Do you feel confident in it? Are you doing it regularly because consistency is key? If you’re wondering, yes, I’ve done it once a week for a month.

Aumatma Simmons, ND, FABNE, MS

Here.

Caitlin Czezowski, DC, CFMP, CACCP

Probably not enough. This means when you start to implement moving or ushering people or cars through the lymph vessels if the lymph nodes aren’t.

Aumatma Simmons, ND, FABNE, MS

Are still closed.

Caitlin Czezowski, DC, CFMP, CACCP

Yes. They’re not moving anything. You’re better off focusing on one thing and then moving on to the next. Sometimes people are. How do I know it’s moving? You may feel things, especially with your tonsils or node post-nasal drip. You may feel you have to swallow. You might have to blow your nose because your nose starts running. You may have a tickle in your throat or feel the need to cough or sneeze. Those are all things that you’re opening up in your head that are now draining. It’s nice to hear that again. Other symptoms could be what people would call negative symptoms: the flu, the achy joints, the upset stomach, the headache—that type of thing tells me that things are moving again. It’s not a bad thing. It’s just your body’s way of saying, Hey, things are moving, and there’s stuff in there that we can now take care of. 

Those are some other things. then, along with what are the symptoms that you are dealing with? Are they improving? Do you mean you have less of what originally made you start doing this in the first place? As you start to see those, that’s when I usually recommend that we start implementing lymphatic drainage. The lymph vessels, when I’m working with people, I usually go, Okay, we’re going to do the total 12 or the specific seven, depending on what’s going on for two weeks every day. Then we’re going to assess where you are, and we’ll add the lymphatic vessel stuff in. Or we may say, Okay, let’s do one more week of the living, and then we’ll do the vessels. That’s how I approach it when it comes to manuals. I also teach you to use your hands first before you throw in a tool. 

The problem is, do I have my I don’t know what I do, as I probably do not have a dry brush near me on my hand or give somebody a tool, they automatically are more aggressive with it. It’s just what we do. I always teach you to use your hands because we’re going to be less aggressive with our hands. then once we get the whole pressure, because remember, pressure is one of the things that’s going to influence our outcome, I can give them the tool because they understand the pressure. They understand. How does that feel? I don’t love jumping people onto a dry brush, a gua sha, or even one of those wooden paddle-type things until they understand the concept of pressure and how much to use.

Aumatma Simmons, ND, FABNE, MS

Okay. I love that. It’s great because we have the tools in our hands right now.

Caitlin Czezowski, DC, CFMP, CACCP

I tell people all the time, I’m, and you literally can do lymphatic drainage almost anywhere. Now, when you work on a vessel, it doesn’t work so well through clothing that needs to be skin-to-skin. But for the lymph nodes, you can do it through your clothing. I will do lymphatic lymph node massage at conferences, on an airplane, or sitting in traffic. Because I got my tools and I can do it through clothes, maybe not through a winter parka or a whole bunch of layers. 

Aumatma Simmons, ND, FABNE, MS

Absolutely. This has been enough to do it. Yes.

Caitlin Czezowski, DC, CFMP, CACCP

Absolutely. Especially when you can’t strip down. The other thing, people ask is, when is the best time of day? The best time of day is when you’re going to do it.

Aumatma Simmons, ND, FABNE, MS

Whenever you’re going to. I feel that when you’re trying to take on a new habit, it’s helpful to pair it with something that you already do. It’s okay before my shower; I’m going to do my little stuff. Yes. Or after I brush my teeth. Whatever works for people, but it’s easy to pair it with something rather than, have to remember yet another thing throughout the day that I don’t do great at.

Caitlin Czezowski, DC, CFMP, CACCP

Well, no, because we’re so bombarded with a million things on our to-do list that we don’t even get to everything on our to-do list. When it’s something new that usually falls to the bottom when you’re on a visit, I teach people habits. I call them habit stacking and jacket whistling. If you’re missing tea or coffee, what’s going to take about 5 minutes? You have 5 minutes while it’s brewing to do your lymphatic drainage, or you just do it after you brush your teeth right before bed. Or maybe you set an alarm halfway through your day to get up, move, and do 3 minutes of it. It’s whatever works for you; whenever it works for you, it’s just a matter of you doing it. That’s usually what I tell people. The time of day matters less when you get more advanced. There are other things that we could talk about and consider, but in the beginning, when you’re doing lymph node stuff, any time of day is fine. 

The other thing is the frequency, but I can tell you that the more consistent you are, the more often you do it, and the better and faster results you’re going to get. I usually tell people your goal, in the beginning, is to do the specific seven, so take 3 minutes, because if you take 30 seconds for each node, it’s going to be 3 minutes, and 30 will say 4 minutes. Take 4 minutes every day, and you will start to see things change within, but for some people, it’s going to be immediate; for some people, it’s going to be a month later; and then for some people, depending upon what else is going on, it may be a couple of months, but I’ve never had somebody not see little changes anyway when they start doing it.

Aumatma Simmons, ND, FABNE, MS

That’s so awesome, and it must be just so rewarding to see the transformation. It’s not always about taking more stuff. It’s literally, let’s just get your systems working.

Caitlin Czezowski, DC, CFMP, CACCP

Just love your lymph; love your drainage. Because here’s the other thing. When you love your lymph, you’re also loving your liver and your gut because they work together. It’s one of those things where people are; I don’t physically see something wrong with my lymph. You might not physically see something, but I can promise you that if you have issues with your liver or if you have issues with your gut, your lymph isn’t working as well as it should be. By loving on this, you’re going to help the other two that you’re probably working on with your provider or practitioner, whoever you’re working with.

Aumatma Simmons, ND, FABNE, MS

Yes. Thank you so much for joining us today. Where can people find you? Where can we connect with you?

Caitlin Czezowski, DC, CFMP, CACCP

Yes, so I’m on Facebook, Instagram, and now YouTube. I’m doing longer forums for people because I need more information. How do you feel? Okay, so then it’s under @doc.talks.detox, even though I talk more about drainage. But it’s @doc.talks.detox. Dr. Caitlin Czezowski is asking, and you’re going to find me on those three platforms currently.

Aumatma Simmons, ND, FABNE, MS

Also, thank you for being with us today and sharing amazing gems. I hope for all of you to listen in. You’re just going to go and add in 4 minutes a day, hit these seven major ones, and then let us know in a month from now what’s improved from just adding these four little things into your 4 minutes into the day. Absolutely. Love it. Thank you so much for being with us.

Caitlin Czezowski, DC, CFMP, CACCP

Thanks for having me.