Uncover the Root of Inflammatory Bowel Disease

Introduction and Dr. Stanga's Background 0:00

Welcome back were continue our conversation on Reversing Crohn's and Colitis. I'm your host, Sinclair Kennally, and today I am joined by the wonderful Dr. Maegan Stanga. She is an IBD expert. She's a d c, a dedicated functional medicine expert and a passionate advocate for immune system modulation to address chronic illness. And as the founder of a successful practice in San Antonio and the host of the Functional Medicine Unfiltered podcast, Dr. Stanga is committed to empowering both patients and practitioners.

Her personal journey from severe illness, triggered by reactivated infections to wellness has deeply informed her practice, and her approach to functional medicine. This experience fuels her determination to help others uncover and address the root causes of their chronic symptoms. Dr. Stanga was first offered or honored to be a finalist for San Antonio Women Business Owner of the year in 2023. She has played a pivotal role in developing a Lyme Certification Program for practitioners. And today, she's here to help us unpack all things strep and immune dysregulation, uncovering the root of inflammatory bowel disease.

So this is really interesting. And I'm and one of the reasons why we want to make sure we did this of course is you and I have a shared history. Right. When you have to go through your own severe chronic illness, like there's a certain passion that you bring to this work to do it right. And I'm so glad that you're spreading the word. Yes. I mean, I feel like that really most of the doctors in the space, I find that is their story is that we had to heal our own chronic illness. And, you know, lots of times hit road roadblocks and had to figure things out on ourselves.

And I know that's what I did. And it really helped me to uncover some pivotal pieces to help my patients. Yeah, absolutely. Agreed. The, and when you wanted to, when you proposed this topic to me, I was really excited about it because this was actually a big part of my health journey and took me forever to connect the dots between this, the infections, and then later on in life, getting down to just three foods and having to, you know, slowly get myself. Yeah. Yes. Yeah. So talk to us about like, first of all, the immune system itself.

Like we talk about modulation and dysregulation but like the immune system imbalance. How can that lead to chronic inflammation in the GI tract. Yes. So you know, when we're thinking about something like Crohn's and Colitis it's two factors. It's autoimmune. It's inflammation. And both of those are immune dysregulation. And I feel like that's so often overlooked when we're working with patients or trying to heal our own chronic illness is the immune system is really what's at play here. And so a simplified version of it, to keep it simple, is there's really two major sides to the immune system.

And it's not this one thing that is weak or strong. There's two sides to it. And they each play a pivotal role. One side is the killing response. And it's what's fighting off all the pathogens and viruses and bacteria. It produces anti-inflammatory cytokines.

Immune Dysregulation and Chronic GI Inflammation 3:25

And then the other side is the antibody response. And its job is to identify enemies in our environment. It produces pro-inflammatory cytokines. And so when you think about autoimmunity and inflammation, when we see an imbalance occurring between the two sides and the immune system, that's really what's driving both of those those things. And so understanding those deep level, root causes is how to get get the patient better. Yeah, I think that's really well said. So, help us unpack this and understand, like the connections here.

when it comes to Colitis and Crohn's specifically, what do you want the audience to understand about those two sides of the immune system? How are the two like a weakened immune response? and what we want to, or how we want to we think about that in a productive way. Yeah. So when you think about the two sides, when the killing response weakens, what happens is it allows pathogen reactivation, which is not typically always something that people are aware of. But the example I always use is chickenpox and shingles because everybody knows what that looks like.

But it's a classic example of a virus we had when we were a kid. It's been dormant in our body and then it reactivates later in life, typically due to a stressor or a trigger. But not everybody who had chickenpox ends up getting shingles. It's the person's whose immune system isn't regulating it, right? So when we're dealing with a weakened or dysregulated immune system, it can allow other pathogens to reactivate. And when we think about something like GI issues, there are specific pathogens that are really connected to these issues.

Streptococcus being, I would say, the main culprit behind, many GI issues is what I see in tons of studies. And that's what I see clinically as well. So, maybe you want to explain to the audience about that, because when we think about scrap, you know, for kids, we're often like, oh, sore throat. And then, you know, it takes a week or two and we get through it. So what are you looking at when you see it showing up in the GI like that? That's exactly what people think about is strep throat. But strep isn't just in our throat.

That's what I always explain. Strep is everywhere. It's all over the body. So it's all through the ear, nose and throat. So often people react. Oftentimes people with reactivated strep also could have sinus issues or ear issues. It's all over our skin. So we can see skin issues and it is in the intestines. And so if it reactivates in the intestines then it can lead to inflammation. And cause a number of different issues. When we think about actually, the term Sibo, right? Sibo is small intestinal bacterial overgrowth.

And but when we think about what the actual bacteria is, it does tend to be streptococcus and strep co-infections. But again it just tends to get overlooked what the specific actual pathogen is, because I think most people don't really have pathogen specific treatments for it, so they don't really care what the specific pathogen is. Yeah, that's a really good point. So, when we think about specifically strep reactivating contributing to chronic gastrointestinal symptoms, you also mentioned like maybe some co-infections.

What are some of those other ones that often get overlooked? Yes. I do want to mention, too, that there are studies done showing that streptococcus is a trigger for Crohn's. So a study was published in 2020 and it showed that, those with new onset of Crohn's had really, really high anti strep device. And O positive titers. And so the assumption that was made was that streptococcus was a trigger for new onset Crohn's. And so it was nice to see that come out in this study because again what I see clinically as well.

But it does it's one of the tests that I often run for. My, patient base is the anti streptomycin, titer. And I do see it often coming back in high, you know, for Crohn's and Colitis. but other co-infections, certainly can be exploring a lot. I can see Candida see death parasite. I would say these are some of the top infections that we also find. Yeah, that's a really great point. I mean, parasites are so interesting to me because they're a huge part of our practice. And I think they are for you as well.

And and yet for most,

Strep, Co-Infections, and Crohn's Triggers 7:54

you know, chronic digestive illness focused practices, I see them still overlooking them like crazy, not just in traditional medicine, but also in the natural health world as well. It's kind of interesting, isn't it? It is. And I think that, you know, really from my perspective in my approach, I always look at the immune system because the change to side of the immune system is what regulates parasites. And so if we have a parasite problem, I always try to educate the patient that it's really parasites aren't the issue.

The immune system's the issue because our immune system is designed to regulate these pathogens. And so if you don't focus on the immune system, then you just get stuck in a killing strategy where you're always relying on killing protocols to fight the pathogen, when really what you want to do is get the immune system back on track to take care of the pathogen the way that we're supposed to do in the first place. I totally agree. Well, as we always say, we want to get the immune system running the show again.

It's not about killing every last parasite. Yeah. Yes. Okay. So let's let's get nerdy here. What are some key mechanisms by which pathogens actually disrupt that immune tolerance in the gastrointestinal tract or immune strength also, you know, yeah. I find that I always like to talk about triggering events when it comes to how pathogens react in the intestines and what that looks like. And when it comes to disrupting the immune system, most of my patients do find that something occurred prior to them being told that they had a new autoimmune disorder, a new set of symptoms.

And so there are, four, 4 to 5 triggers that I find in practice frequently that trigger the immune system into a dysregulated state. And those are, pregnancy is one of them. The immune system shifts by design in pregnancy. So I feel like hormones get all the blame here, but it's really the immune system shifting into this dysregulated state. And for someone women, we just can't recover from it. And yes, that was me too. I had that experience as well. the second one is stressors. And most people get that.

You don't ever have to convince people that stress affects the immune system. That's why we see cold sores popping up and shingles popping up when we're stressed out, because it's weakening that killing response. but it can be also physical stressors, and it can be environmental stressors, things like mold or even, you know, toxic foods, you know, this can stress and overwhelm our immune system. But whereas sometimes people focus on these as root causes, I really look at them more as a trigger, to the immune system.

Just regulating to my focus is always going to be on the immune system. And then the last two things that can do it are vaccines, which I know can be a hairy topic sometimes. But, you know, the mechanism of a vaccination is to upregulate one side and decrease the other side. So that can oftentimes be a trigger. And then acute infections. So getting a bout of strep throat or getting Covid, these are things that can also disrupt the immune system and cause pathogens to reactivate. So yeah that's a great point.

So when we think about like what is the straw that broke the camel's back like this is this is obviously building for a long time. The conditions with which, you know, a triggering event would actually become a triggering event. There's so many small micro factors building up in the background along the way. What are some of those that you pay attention to? Yeah. So the straw that breaks the camel's back for people. I mean like what what makes that triggering event a triggering event for some person, one person versus somebody else that can survive that type of triggering event?

It's typically that yeah Bobby Burden right. So what are you paying attention to as a clinician in that regard. You know. Yeah. So when we look at actually what's happening with the immune system, I've talked a little bit about T H1 and H2 when there's become dysregulated for long periods of time or severely dysregulated then it will trigger T H 17 cells. And that's what actually, causes tissue disruption. And that's what's actually behind autoimmunity. Is T h 17. And then T nine cells are behind inflammation in the intestinal lining.

So essentially what I see happening is people will have been in a state of dysregulation. And then all of a sudden one of these triggers just throws them into full blown autoimmunity or inflammatory conditions. Right. Yeah. That's a great way to say it. A really nice, concise way to explain it, too. It's so hard for people to wrap their minds around the immune system, especially because, you know, a lot of people get told like, oh, let's suppress it because it's making a mistake right now. And that's how they get on these long term immune suppressive drugs for things like Crohn's and colitis.

So can you talk about your or do you want to comment on that before talking about current strategies and therapies. Go. Yeah. Essentially it's it's really only addressing one side of the immune system or one part of the immune system, and just the one that's causing the biggest issue for people. Right. We're just going to dampen that down without looking holistically at the entire immune system and bringing balance back to it. We're just going to knock down one side. So that's essentially what that is doing.

Yeah, totally. So what about your favorite current strategies and therapies really aiming at restoring that immune balance in patients with IBD?

Triggering Events and Immune Shifts 13:27

Yeah. So what are the biggest things that made a difference with my health? What I've seen make a huge difference in my practice with my patients is I use homeopathy for chronic infections, and it's really an immune therapy because it's directing and guiding the immune system to build innate and tolerance or innate tolerance towards the pathogen. And that's such a different strategy than killing, because you don't want to kill these pathogens. Or in our body, most people have pathogens. We've been exposed to them.

The problem isn't that they're they're the problems, the immune system not regulating them. So the spirit of homeopathy, which has been around for a couple hundred of these hundred years, it basically triggers the immune system to bring the pathogen dormant by microdosing the pathogen in small amounts. It's kind of like allergy shots. You know, if you get allergy shots, you'll get, injections of what you're actually allergic to in small amounts. And it builds tolerance to whatever you've lost, tolerance to.

This uses that same concept to build tolerance to the pathogens in our body. It's incredibly effective, and it allows us to get really specific with pathogens right. So it's not just really broad anti microbial or antibacterial. We can actually go and treat things like strep and Candida and H. Pylori and Epstein-Barr. And we can be really, really specific with it. Yeah okay. So tell us more like what are some of your favorite like products out there or you know, where would you start? as like a standard protocol for somebody coming in the door, like very textbook IBD.

Yeah. So I always begin my protocols with addressing drainage. Drainage is huge because if our natural pathways are not open and flowing properly, we certainly don't want to start, stirring things up and going after infections until that happens. And the way that I describe it to my patients is like, it's kind of like, if you have this raging that controlled fire in your home with the fire being representative of inflammation, the first thing you would want to do is come in and open up all the doors and windows and what I'll, you know, 20 years of smoke out because you can't really address the fire until you do that.

So that's really what drainage is for me and for my patients. It's making sure those natural pathways of elimination are open. And and then from there, we can effectively start to address the inflammation by addressing the pathogens in the immune system. And then the last thing that we do after that is the cleanup and restoration, where we're restoring all the damage that's been done from years of this chronic fire being in your your house or your body. And that's where we're doing gentle detox.

And we're up regulating nutrients and supporting those downstream. systems that have been affected. Yeah. Yeah. Those are great. That's a great three stage phase. Our three phase ones to go through. I'm also drainage obsessed. What are some of your favorite drainage tools. Especially for those sensitive folks that are down to like just a few foods. Like where do you start them? Yeah. So for my sensitive patient, I do find that they tend to be really low with, acid in their stomach. And so I tend to start in there the giving them HDL.

Or if they can't tolerate that, we, we begin with some lemon juice or some apple cider vinegar. And I do find that for sensitive people, that each pylori and a lack of stomach acid a lot of times is a factor. And then from there they can tend to start to tolerate, some more of the supplements. my favorite drainage supplements are by a company called as bio. they're amazing. It's homeopathy. So it's really different than, than herbals, right? It's homeopathy, generally speaking, is directing your, your body's own ability to make something happen.

So it's a different approach to drainage. and so it's very gentle but very effective. So even with sensitive patients, they, they can tolerate it. And we can always, you know, alter the dosing accordingly. but so definitely want to focus on, GI drainage, liver drainage. We like to address lymphatic and systemic drainage. all of those areas, in my opinion, need to be addressed before we can start moving forward. Yeah, that's a great point. And for what about folks who are, really, really depleted?

Maybe not super reactive, but just, you're concerned about adding things into the system, like homeopathy is so perfect for them. Do you have any special tips or tricks that you think like, oh, I wish more practitioners knew for really depleted people who've had IBD for just years, if not decades, but, you know, think about homeopathy in this way with them. Yeah. So I feel like homeopathy is a perfect solution for people who are really sensitive because it needs your body where it's it's at essentially.

and so the way that it works is like if you're taking dilutions of strep, it's not going to do anything unless strep is in the body. And so that's where it is really, really effective. but there are ways that you can work with a patient to, to reduce the dosing and make it tolerable for them.

Why Immune Suppression Falls Short 18:38

So obviously everybody will be different with what they can tolerate. but coming up with homeopathy, you really can alter the dosing. You can also spread out how often you take the doses. Some of my patients can't tolerate it, to take it at the normal dosage that I tend to recommend. So we have to spread it out over a longer period of time. Sometimes we can address multiple pathogens at once. We can only do one at a time. So, there's definitely many ways that you can use homeopathy for the sensitive patient.

Yeah, absolutely. is there anything that you want to tell practitioners listening about homeopathy or even like a specific desk bio product? Like, I really love to give really savvy, seasoned practitioners the chance to like Mythbuster be like, please pay more attention to this one. You know, like, yeah. I mean, it's streptococcus. That's why I'm talking about it. You know, like it's it's an, you know, it's just not looked at to as much as it should be. I feel like I've seen bar, you know, people talk about Epstein-Barr, and I feel like people talk about Lyme a lot.

But streptococcus is at the root of so many issues, from chronic skin issues to sinus issues, ear, nose and throat problems, GI issues, many mood disorders, anxiety in particular. it's at the root of so many conditions, you know, of course, pandas. People are familiar with pandas pediatric autoimmune neuropsychiatric disorder associated with streptococcus. you know, you think about all of the symptoms that occur with pandas. Well, this can occur in adults too, right? It's not just a pediatric problem.

It can be seen in adults as well. And so strep is, multifaceted. It's all over the body and therefore it can show up in all kinds of different ways. Yeah. You know, the thing that I wish back when we were birthing it was that, pandas and or pans, pandas and strep was more deeply understood because I, I feel very strongly that was me going undiagnosed at that for years is a big, big issue for me. You know, my temperament changed, like all the things. And it's really scary when it's happening to you.

And yet you just chalk it up to like, mental emotional stuff. But it's actually has a physical root. It has a physical root. Exactly. And it's interesting when you start working with these pathogens, especially when when you're doing them one at a time on yourself or with a patient,

Homeopathy and Immune Modulation 21:08

you can see the actual symptoms associated with each pathogen. And, it really is interesting that, you know, all the things that we tend to blame on outside sources. You know, we think that they're, that it's, it's hormones or it's this or that, that most chronic symptoms really can be tied back to chronic infections. that would be the one thing that I would want people to know. Yeah, I'm I'm really glad you're you're setting a light on that. And you're right. Like, EBV gets a ton of airtime, but EBV is just an opportunist.

It's always present when there's other stuff going on. So yes. Yeah. Maybe maybe we widen the lens a little bit here. Yes. There's there's other gravitons out there. Yeah. What else. so we talked about drainage for phase one for and using some just prior remedies to really open up the pathways for folks and why it's good for that. What about phase two when you're actually directly addressing the parasites and infections? What are some of your favorite tools there? Yeah. So I like to also use other herbs and nutraceuticals to help with modulation of the immune system.

So when stage two is really upregulated things like quercetin and NK are really helpful. and when one is really downregulated, sulforaphane is amazing in zinc. berberine. These things really help to boost up the TH1 response to just help the immune system in building that innate immune tolerance. but also kind of just up regulating the nutrient status and down regulating inflammation. So these are some key nutrients that I use when I'm trying to help shift the immune response a little more when I'm walking patients through the, the homeopathy immune therapy.

Yeah, that makes sense. So for the people in the audience who are doing it and trying to understand how to support themselves at home, how would they know if t one is downregulated and H2 is upregulated? What what for E6 just slow down and do the each one of those at a time. Symptoms and signs. So TH1 downregulation is the killer response. So when people are severely TH1 downregulated they're going to be the patient that gets sick all the time. So they're going to be the person that's like, I'm constantly sick.

I can never get over this. and then TH2, this is going to be the patient that's allergic to everything. The over respond to their environment. They have lots of food sensitivities, lots, lots of allergic responses, rashes, those sorts of things. So that's essentially in a nutshell, what T two is allergic response to each one is just incredibly weak immune system, which is what allows pathogens to reactivate. So patients end up experiencing symptoms from the actual immune system shifting. But then they're also experiencing the symptoms from the pathogens reactivating.

Yeah, absolutely. any other clinical advice for the practitioners in the audience about this phase two, where we're actually going after pathogens and doing all the fun stuff? Yeah. So I like to start by looking at GI pathogens first. I mean, there's so many pathogens that can be at play with inpatient. There's, systemic pathogens. There's the mono pathogens, alarm pathogens. And I really do like to start, in the gut with the GI pathogens. I find that a lot of times it clears up a lot of things.

Like you, if you can just address those, you get to the immune system on track enough that sometimes we don't even have to address the other pathogens. so I really feel like GI, is the best place to start when addressing pathogens versus going directly after Lyme or something like that.

Drainage First: Preparing the Body for Treatment 24:58

that's a little harsh. it's so harsh. It's financially devastating. You get when you're trying to go after Lyme first and Lyme co-infections, like there's so much drama about you know, the ups and downs and the Herc saying you can't tolerate anything. You're crashing. And, I wish people understood this. I get that you're one of the very first practitioners I've ever talked to that agrees with me about this. Like, this is this is huge that you can shrink Lyme down from, like, a life ruining problem down to something you can gently target with precision, or you may not even need to at all if you do an FCI cleanup.

That's the insane thing. Yeah. And it's, you know, it's the immune system's like a seesaw, right? The more you build the side up, this side modulates to. And so sometimes just gently building this side up is enough for the immune systems and capable of taking care of the rest. So, especially in the really sick patients, in my opinion, that's it makes the most sense to start with the GI pathogens and, and gently start building up the immune system. And for a lot of people, we don't even have to do the bigger stuff.

So yeah. Okay. What about for mass of folks who have Crohn's or colitis. Like we see that more and more that convergence in our practice. How about you. Yeah. So yes and again to mast cell is going to be that to upregulation. Right. That allergic response. And so with those patients for sure we are we are addressing T two downregulation in all the ways that we can. We are gently building up that one immune response. A lot of times with these patients, you know, homeopathy it's alcohol based. And so they can't always tolerate, alcohol.

And so, we have to, dilute it in water and evaporate it with boiling water, so that they can tolerate it. those are some kind of clinical nuggets with with Marcel. Yeah. That's such a great point. Absolutely. Okay, so really fun stuff. I mean, you and I think this is really fun. So maybe audiences enjoy. Yeah. To we have so many summer junkies that follow along because they know, first of all, that I'll tell them the truth. And, you know, because I've been where they are and they're just looking for that one thing they haven't heard before.

Yeah. Because they know it's their job to heal themselves. They're not waiting for their doctors anymore. What insights do you have for those guys that are really far along in their healing journey? what do you think has been overlooked by them, or what's a great clinical nugget for them? I really find that it's it's very rare. Many of my patients come to me after having done all the other things. And, but they've never done this right where it's, it's using these homeopathic products to address the pathogens.

And I really feel like that is the missing piece. It's it's very rare that, and I would say to somebody who maybe has already tried that you may have missed the, the wrong pathogen. Right? You may not have gotten the right pathogen because that's crucial to if you are using these products that you haven't narrowed, narrowed it down to the right pathogen, well, then you're not going to get a very good result. And so, you know, I made that mistake a few times in, in my history of like, you have to know what the pathogen is behind the problem.

And if you don't, then you may not get a very good result. So when it comes to GI, just generally speaking, you can kind of not go wrong. Typically that that is a big root cause of GI issues. but again, there can be other pathogens at play too. So it's important that we're narrowing down them all. and so you know, a good comprehensive stool test is helpful. I don't fully rely on testing, but another thing that I feel like is, is worth noting is testing.

Phase Two: Supporting Immune Response and Pathogen Work 28:58

To me, it's a tool, but it's I know that it's, it's not perfect. And so I'm always taking that into account along with the person's health history along with their symptoms, or your health history can really tell you a lot. You know, if you're somebody who's like, yeah, I have strep throat every year. I used to have ear infections when I was a kid. I got my tonsils removed. I had a staph infection, you know, when I was 20. I mean, you can look back in a person's health history, too, and you can see, a lot of times, a pathogen that's prevalent in their their past health history.

and so paying attention to all of those signs kind of leads you to what your pathogen is. again, strep is very often at the root of disuse, but it's important to take all the information in so that you are narrowing it down to the right pathogen. Yeah, I think it's a great point, and I appreciate you acknowledging the limitations too, of the lab tests. Because stool tests aren't perfect. No, no, lab tech is perfect, guys, and we're a skilled practitioner. We'll be looking at as a window of, you know, into you at best, it's a layer of information.

Yes. I appreciate you emphasizing the health history and the symptomology pieces. Like we want to treat the human, not the lab, right? I always say that I treat people, not paper. Nice. You have to take it all into account. Yeah, until you factor it in. If you had this huge health history of strep and maybe strep doesn't show up as high, but it's showing up like I'm, I'm probably still going to, to, go after that pathogen. But that's where you, you take it all into account. You're not just relying on the testing result.

Yeah, it's a great way to say it. Cool. So, I know that we've been talking about immune modulation the whole time, but is there anything else that you want to make sure the audience knows about managing and treating these chronic symptoms when it comes specifically to IBD and immune modulation? Like how important is it or any any clinical insights there. How important it is crucial. And I feel like it's the missing link. It really is when we're thinking about what what is IBD it's inflammation and it's autoimmunity and that is immune dysregulation.

And the midst where I see people going wrong is with killing strategies. They're relying on killing strategies. And a killing strategy is never going to fix your immune system. that's why, you know, when people get on antibiotics, they have to stay on antibiotics or, you know, H. Pylori keeps coming back, or they're taking antimicrobial herbs, which is a killing strategy, but they're continuing to have to take them because they can never clear the parasite. So they can never completely clear the pathogen.

And in those scenarios, the missing piece is that the immune system isn't working properly. And until you get that on track, you'll always be banned dating with natural remedies. And so again, what is so amazing about, about the immune therapy protocols and about the homie homeopathic is that it has the ability to regulate the immune system and build up that innate immune response to get it back on track to work and fight for you the way that it was supposed to all along.

Clinical Takeaways for Chronic IBD and Strep 32:18

So, definitely a huge missing piece for people. Yeah, I agree, we spent a lot of time clearing out parasites as well, and it has to be done after drainage pathways are open. Let's let's step away from the drama of it. I also find that people don't give themselves enough time in this stage. They're like, okay, ten day parasite cleanse, right? And when like what? Where did you get that idea? Was that on TikTok or something like don't no no no no no no. Yeah. No I see, patients clearing parasites without actually ever treating the parasite.

So just by, a lot of times, with H pylori doing the H. Pylori treatment because it is, you know, when you don't have enough acid in your stomach, that's a line of defense. against, parasites. And so a lot of times, patients on the H. Pylori, treatment will pass tons and tons of parasites. And so, like, we're not even doing anything with parasites. We're just getting the immune system back on track, and the immune system is doing its job. Right? Yeah, I love that. It's so true. It's like finally giving it the energy and it's like, oh yeah, now I have the bandwidth.

Let's get rid of these guys. Yes. Like, oh yeah, these shouldn't be here. Yeah. They've been on the list. The to do. Yes. Doesn't. Yes. Yeah. That means like your body knows these guys are in there. It's so brilliant. It's not stupid. It's just not in a position to do anything about it at this time. But that can shift very quickly. Yes. Yeah. And like it's it's handcuffed. We have to help it out. Yeah. Totally. So where can people find you and your work? so you can go to my website, which is drstanga.com.

I am on Instagram, under drmaeganstanga I have a podcast called the Functional Medicine Unfiltered podcast. so those are all good places where you can find me. That's great. And, for a desk bioproducts that you mentioned, where can folks find those? so you can go to, actually, you can't buy it directly from that layout. you can you can do practitioner. Yeah, yeah. So I have a system on, on my website, and you can go there and you can purchase supplements, from drstanga.com. Thank you so much for your work and for your advocacy.

It was great talking to you. It was good talking to you, too.