Understand Your Biological Clock For Better Fertility

Katherine Zagone, ND

The chronological age is the age we are based on our birthdays. How many times have we been alive and gone around the sun? We know that age matters, for instance, in fertility, and infertility. But what we’re finding now is that instead of your chronological age being the most important factor, we now have a marker called biological age, which is the age of your cells or the age that your DNA is saying that you are, which is different than your chronological age. Biological age is a measure of cellular health. This was something that I was seeing in practice. I’m assuming you were seeing in practice that, like even women who were late thirties or early forties, when they did the right things to get healthier, we would see success, that they could get pregnant or they could hold a pregnancy and have a healthy baby. Being in practice, I already had this frame that it’s more about health than just age. Then, when this biological age marker came on the market, I first started testing it in my practice, ” Is this the measure of age that we’re looking at for fertility? And took it out and did it on myself, as that’s a story we could get into if you want to.

But I went into the research and was like, does this biological age marker, like theoretically, it’s what we’re seeing in practice that the healthier the cell, the younger the biological age, the better the fertility outcome? Is that what the science says? The truth is, yes, I was able to find a paper showing that women who had advanced biological age, meaning that their cells were saying they were older than their birth, had poorer outcomes on egg freezing. They got fewer eggs, fewer embryos, poorer-quality embryos, and fewer life births. But what’s crazy is that this is true even for chronologically younger women. If we had a woman who was 30, we would think she’d be able to get a good amount of eggs if she’s freezing. Her eggs are going through IVF for whatever reason. But if that biological age was older, she would get poorer results. We’re short on it because we have these two different markers. Yes, age matters for fertility. But what we’re seeing is that biological age is, in my opinion, more important than chronological age when it comes to fertility. To a point, of course, we still have menopause.

Aumatma Simmons, ND, FABNE, MS

We know that menopause even happens for different people at different ages. There’s no specific age that can be the cutoff because everyone’s bodies are different. I feel like that’s where this becomes useful. How do we frame this in the context of the person that we’re working with or, like, someone sitting in front of us? What is it like? There are all of these things that are influencing what we know as fertility. We know that toxins influence our fertility. We know that food, lifestyle, and the amount of alcohol we consume in college are affecting our fertility in some way. Being able to measure biological age, would you say that those things are some of the factors that have influenced biological age?

Katherine Zagone, ND

100%? It’s the same things that we see in the fertility world that improve fertility at any age—the same things that rewind that biological clock. Yes, I am saying it is possible to rewind that biological age. The difference is that here you can’t rewind that chronological age; you can rewind that biological age, and that does result in better outcomes. Yes, the things that help rewind that clock, I broke them down into what I call the fast framework just so I can remember them. Food fasting, fitness-associated conditions, sleep stress supplementation, toxins, and trauma. There are a few others that like to float in there. Sometimes I add in faith because, for some women, spirituality is a very large component of their journey. There’s interesting research on faith-based communities—not necessarily a specific religion—but faith-based communities living longer and therefore having younger biological and cellular ages. Those are all the lifestyle categories that I would look at with any fertility couple. We look at both from that biological age perspective, which therefore is for fertility as well.

Aumatma Simmons, ND, FABNE, MS

You hinted at this, but how are we testing biological age, and what is it testing just for the geeky side of us?

Katherine Zagone, ND

They’re right now on the market, and there are a couple of different types of tests out there. What we want to look for is the most accurate, and the way to do that is through blood. There’s also urine and saliva on the market, but those results can change based on hydration and different things. We want to look at blood and what we’re looking at in blood. We’re looking at a specific immune cell in the blood. It’s collected just via finger prick. What we’re looking at within that cell is the DNA, and we’re looking at epigenetics. Specifically, we’re looking at methyl markers on the DNA. We’ve got our double helix, and then it’s all compacted into different shapes to make it fit into the nucleus of the cell. We have these. I like to think of them as little balloons that attach to the DNA, and they act as a switch or like a volume knob that turns a gene on or off, essentially, and they can land in different places. There are some places where we want more of these methyl groups, and there are some places where we don’t want more of these methyl groups. What we’re looking at when we’re looking at biological age is that we’re collecting data at about 900,000 points on the DNA, at least with this particular test. Then we’re running that data through an algorithm that’s maybe not using those 900,000 points. It’s using a smaller number, so this particular algorithm is what predicts what gives you that biological age based on what sites are methylated to what degree. Does that make sense?

Aumatma Simmons, ND, FABNE, MS

This question comes up a lot when I talk to people. What is methylation in your words, and what does it have to do with fertility?

Katherine Zagone, ND

There are a few different ways we’re looking at methylation in the fertility world. One aspect is how these methyl groups are turning genes on and off, and that’s telling us what genes are being expressed. Some of that information does get passed down to our children. That’s giving our children either the best chance at health or not the best chance at health for their entire lives. There are other uses for these methyl groups in the body. We have the methylation cycle, which works with several genes that code for enzymes that work a lot with a marker called homocysteine and with different forms of B12 and folate. If we have issues in these genetic pathways and our enzymes aren’t working very well, we can create more inflammation in the body by raising this homocysteine. Or you can have a functional deficiency because you’re not able to make enough of the right form of folate, which we know is so important for fertility and also important for combating the toxic exposures that we’re all exposed to. If that methylation cycle is off, either through a functional deficiency or just because those enzymes and those genetic SNPs aren’t working enough, that then affects the age of your genes, how your body can turn genes on and off, and how that gets passed down to babies. What I see is when people have, for example, an MTHFR mutation, which is one that most people have heard of. I’m checking homocysteine, and I’m checking those methylation pathways and giving them the right nutrients. But we also see that it impacts biological age and how the body can regulate those genes and turn those genes on and off. That’s one of the things that I see accelerate the biological clock. That was one of the things that accelerated the biological clock in me: I have an MTHFR, and MTR mutation in the COT, but different bodies, and different episodes.  and I wasn’t like, “I’m a naturopathic doctor and I thought I was doing everything right, except taking my supplements regularly.”

That’s one component when I took my test initially, I thought I was going to come back at 28. I was 33 at the time. I came back four years older than I was, and it was a reality check of, “I’m not doing everything that I should be doing.” If I want to have a baby like I was, single in L.A., in my mid-thirties, loved my career but wanted a family but didn’t have a partner yet. This was my reality check that if I don’t get on top of this now, I’m going to have trouble in four years because my body already thinks I’m four years older than I am. That was my inspiration. It took me seeing that and knowing, like, “No, I want to be able to have my baby on my timeline when I can.” So I like to stay on top of my supplements. I also fasted for the second time in my life. I did it the first time in medical school and was like, I’m never doing this again. That was the thing I was most resistant to. It’s also very controversial in the fertility world. It’s not something I recommend if somebody is actively trying to conceive, but it can be very effective for things like resetting cellular health and rewinding biological age very quickly. I faced my fears and worked through some food issues. I was able to rewind my clock by a full two years and eight weeks, and then over the next year, I rewound it more, so when I was 35, I came back almost four years younger. I went from about four years older to about four years younger and a year and a quarter, which is fairly impressive. That’s what I helped my couples and my momma’s do these days. 

Aumatma Simmons, ND, FABNE, MS

What are some of the things that people can do to rewind their biological age?

Katherine Zagone, ND

If we work through the fast framework, it’s our food, fasting, and fitness. With food quality first nutrient-dense, there’s a lot of individuality, but we want to get in all those high-folate nutrients we want to get in. I enjoy grass-fed organ meats in moderation and for the right people. Some people, especially couples, are vegan and do great. I have couples who are more on the carnivore side of things. and I’m bringing a little more balance on some sides, but like quality, high-density nutrients, organic, because you got to keep the toxins out. then also looking at things like blood sugar. If somebody has low blood sugar, that signals stress in the body. We’re also using food to send the right signals to the nervous system: that there’s plenty of food in the environment, that everybody’s safe, and that food is information. Getting all those nutrients through fasting, which is just timing when you’re eating,  I’m typically a fan of the 12/12, so I’m not eating until,  let’s say, 7 p.m. to 7 a.m. For some women, doing a little bit longer works, but not for everybody. But the 12 hours of nice gut rest don’t quite get you into that autophagy stage, which is where we’re cleaning out old cells, cellular debris, etc. But it’s a great place to start. then again figuring out, an individualized place from there. If I have somebody who’s trying to conceive in the next three months, we’re not doing any fasting other than 12/12, intermittent fasting.

But if I have somebody who will give me three-plus months before they’re going to start trying officially, then I do recommend either doing something like the ProLon fasting-mimicking diet, which is a nice way to get in the benefits of autophagy or getting in like a pretty intense fast with not as much suffering. I say we’ve got like 80% of the benefits of a water fast with only 20% of the suffering. Doable, as I would say, sometimes a water fast lasts two to three days, time with the cycle. We don’t want to be doing anything that’s going to mess with progesterone in that luteal phase. We also don’t want to mess with ovulation, so making sure that, if we are fasting, we’re doing something more intensely that, it’s time to, I like days like two to 10, keep it in that window maybe a little bit right after ovulation but nothing crazy, and not while trying and then fitness, we want to find that sweet spot. not too much, not too little. I recommend moving every day. If that’s a 30-minute walk, that’s great, with a little bit of intensity sprinkled in there. Maybe that’s one to two days of heavier strength. Maybe that’s one day of, like, high-intensity intervals timed at the right time of your cycle that week. It’s going to be individualized. Most of my patients’ air on the not-enough movement and exercise side. But occasionally we have, like, some athletes who need to back it down a little bit, and can create more stress and inflammation in the body if there is too much exercise.

That’s why food fasting and fitness-associated conditions would be like the MTHFR mutation other methylation defects, or blood sugar dysregulation issues. either low blood sugar or high blood sugar. High blood sugars might go along with, like a PCOS picture. Sometimes hormonal imbalances fall into this category. This is more like you’re seeing a practitioner for some specific health issue that is impacting aging or fertility. This is like our catch, all other things category, and then our asses sleep. Sleep is so important. Our circadian rhythms then help regulate our larger biorhythms. It’s where we repair. It’s where our hormones learn how much, when, and how to secrete. Sleep is super important and so important for the nervous system and mental health, which is a huge component when we are stressed. What’s interesting in a lot of the biological age studies where they’re showing age reversal is that there’s only one that Dr. Claire Fitzgerald has incorporated and rated as a specific mind-body technique. In one of the studies they gave, it was just 20 minutes a day. It could either be 10 and 10 or 20 at one time, but it was like a non-specific meditation, like a breathing exercise, or it could be like listening to a meditation recording. It didn’t give any more specific instructions, at least not in the published paper about exactly if that had to be anything. They had good age reversals across their whole group. That was one component of it. It’s a whole lifestyle protocol that’s based on a lot of what we do in naturopathic medicine; we’re seeing this work across the board, but even just 20 minutes a day, like without changing the boss or the partner or any of the stress-inducing situations, just giving yourself that time to counterbalance anything else that might have been going on in the day, was found to be very effective. Every study I’ve ever read, published on meditation, just has all of the wonderful benefits, like improvement in inflammatory markers, improvement in gene regulation like gene expression, like blood sugar, subjective measures like perceived stress and whatnot, and cortisol levels. There’s no reason not to do it.

I  start there in the mind-body section because a lot of our stress is internal, and how we think about life, and stories we make up about ourselves and other people. Sometimes we don’t realize we have more control over our state than we do. It’s very normal to believe our thoughts, and I’m a big proponent of feeling our feelings. But sometimes we have these underlying patterns, and this also relates to the trauma piece. Sometimes we have these, whether you want to call them subconscious beliefs, subconscious programming, or even conscious beliefs in programming, that are creating or retriggering this stress loop every day. If we can identify that and go back and heal that, and then we’re no longer reacting to this same stimulus every day, that frees up a lot of life force, a lot of vitality, and a lot of space in the nervous system and helps us get into that parasympathetic state, which is rest, digestion, and reproduction.  That’s where the biggest changes happen when we can get into that parasympathetic state, whether it’s through the 20 minutes a day of breathing or whether it’s through clearing some limiting belief that’s making you think every day that like I’m running out of time, whether it’s work or biological clock, but feeling that like time pressure and working with that and supplementation, and this is fairly individualized. But I’m excited for your new line to come out because I’m just excited to see the ingredients and how you formulate them, and I’m so excited to explore that aspect.

Aumatma Simmons, ND, FABNE, MS

I completely wholeheartedly agree with you in terms of supplements being personalized; that’s like one of the founding principles of the line that we’re launching. 

Katherine Zagone, ND

Supplements are important.  If you don’t do all the other foundational things, you can spend a lot of money on a lot of capsules, and you’re not going to see a shift. but an important part of the whole plan. sleep, stress, supplementation, and then toxins and trauma. Toxins, and this is also something I test a lot for because we know that one toxin exposure accelerates the biological clock. But two, specifically to fertility. A lot of these toxin exposures, both in mom and dad, increased the time to conception by up to 30%, which, if you’ve been trying for a few months and it’s not happening, could mean there could be something wrong. It could just be that there are a lot of toxins. They increase the time to conception. They decrease success with egg freezing, with IVF, and with embryo quality, but they also affect epigenetics in the genes that we pass down. In some cases, there’s the mom’s exposure that’s being passed down because the baby’s inside of her. But what’s crazy is some of these toxin exposures in Dad. Dad’s exposures and preconceptions can affect that child’s health down the line. Some of these toxins, like latex, for example, when dad was exposed pre-conception, there were two specific phthalates. It showed up in their sons at seven years old; they were able to track increased behavioral issues in the group of boys born to these fathers who had exposure before these boys worked. 

Aumatma Simmons, ND, FABNE, MS

It’s crazy to me. That’s absurd.

Katherine Zagone, ND

Not to mention the toxin exposure that these boys are probably also experiencing like we’re all experiencing. No wonder health is what it is right now. But that’s a different story, so toxins both for mom and dad and then trauma. This goes back both to the stress piece and also to the fact that if your body doesn’t feel safe, it can make it harder to conceive. This isn’t true across the board because there are plenty of stories of conception happening in situations where women didn’t feel safe necessarily in that acute moment, and I also think that with the overall burden of toxins and stress and modern-day life, that trauma piece is playing a bigger role right now. If also on the more metaphysical, spiritual side of things, I believe in baby’s souls. These souls want to come in with the least amount of baggage possible, both biochemical and psychological. We do know that in the lineage through epigenetics, there are markers we can track that trauma gets passed down through the lineage, and that can show up as anxiety and depression for unknown reasons. From something that may have happened to grandma, great-grandma, or great-grandfather generations down the line, there are markers for PTSD in our genes. When we’re looking at these methyl markers, it’s crazy. and there are things we can do to heal that.

Aumatma Simmons, ND, FABNE, MS

In terms of trauma, there’s no real test for trauma, but it’s just like asking people and seeing if they’ve experienced a lot of trauma and then using some therapy or technique to help remove that trauma from their bodies.

Katherine Zagone, ND

Especially if they’re aware of it. That’s the one you can work with. Using things like EMDR, different tapping modalities, body talk, and things where you’re working with the energetics system, the neurological system, and the emotional system to help release or clear the trauma out of the body. Sometimes it’s more somatic. You have to get into things like the tissues and the fascia. Different things work for different people. Sometimes that also takes like coming out of whatever the trauma response was. If it was a freeze response that was incited in that incident, then sometimes first coming out of freeze needs to happen before we can do that EMDR or the tapping or something like that. Not always, but it’s important to have a practitioner that you trust who has experience with trauma and who is trauma-informed because there needs to be a strong therapeutic alliance in the relationship to do this properly because it can be done improperly, which can cause more trauma for people. Starting with trauma that you’re aware of, and I’m a big fan of somatics, and identifying where you feel it in your body and what you’re noticing, and starting there with lots of tools and having a good practitioner.

Aumatma Simmons, ND, FABNE, MS

These are amazing. There are a lot of tools, and I love that you shared them. It’s pretty comprehensive. Doing something like this is like working through all the layers that are impacting your biological age. Is there one that you feel is the like the super mega,  like must-have in this plan?

Katherine Zagone, ND

Yes, that’s the mind-body connection. I almost always start there with my patients, and anytime I make recommendations, the mind and the body have that connection, which is so powerful. I truly believe our cells are listening to what we’re telling them, consciously or subconsciously. I had a mentor who used to say that the body is like a faithful puppy dog to the mind. If the story that’s running in our heads is like the clock is ticking, then the clock is ticking and you’re going to feel the stress of the clock ticking, and that’s going to accelerate your age, whereas if you choose a more empowered story and you can do that through mantra, you can do that through breath. You can, however, shift that story. We’re talking about the mind-body connection. To the body of the faithful puppy dog, to the mind are cells that are hearing everything that our mind is saying to them. Just taking the pressure off of whatever pressure we’re putting on ourselves automatically is like a relief. Then all of our cells can work better because they’re under less tension and stress, and then the nutrition absorbs better and we detoxify better. Starting with that mind-body component is number one. I don’t say magic, but if I had to pick one, that would be my favorite. It’s mind and body. Stress technically would put it in the stress category, but I like my mind and body because stress is stressful.

Aumatma Simmons, ND, FABNE, MS

Like the mind-body, when thinking about it as a connection, it’s also more empowering because now you’re actively doing something rather than, like, I’m so stressed out, you can only do so much about your stress. So many people are like, “Please don’t make me quit my job.” It is not my job to make you quit your job. That’s not what we do here. It’s not going to magically fix your infertility, either. How is this actively playing out in your body and your cells? You have the power to, like, change the dynamic, and you have the story that you’re telling about your boss, your job, or whatever the situation is, just like quitting the job. There are all options.

Katherine Zagone, ND

It’s the shift from victim to creator like you do have a choice, and that choice could be reframed, or that choice could be, maybe you do need to leave your job, but that’s your choice. You get to decide how you want to, how you want to create your life. I had a patient maybe six years ago. She had seen a psychic medium before she saw me, and the medium told her she needed to quit her job. She did.  We started working together maybe a month after she had been home all day, and she was not happy. She was miserable. She’s like, “I loved working.”

Aumatma Simmons, ND, FABNE, MS

I’m like, Why don’t you go back to work then? And she did. She ended up getting pregnant. Not that it was like the work or the not work necessarily. Maybe she did need the month off for stress, sleep, or whatever. But like a reset or. like I enjoy my work even though it’s stressing me out. Again, that little mindset shift is going to give us more value than the actual result of that.

Katherine Zagone, ND

100%. Then, of course, she went back to work, and then she got pregnant within like two or three weeks of being back at work, and then she’s like, I guess I’m going to plan for maternity leave now.

Aumatma Simmons, ND, FABNE, MS

I love that. This is biological age versus chronological age, and you’ve been testing this out in your practice for some time. What results are you seeing in people who may start with older than chronological biological age? I don’t know if I said that correctly, but it sounds like they’re older. They’re older in their biology than their actual age. In reversing that, what are you finding?

Katherine Zagone, ND

On average, we’re seeing about a four-year biological age reversal in anywhere from six months to a year of either following an individualized protocol, if they’re a one-on-one client with me if they’re in our like group cohort, or following on their own, but doing the steps and then retesting. That’s across all age groups. Many women we’re working with with this testing right now are trying to conceive actively, while others are more planning for the future. I don’t have good statistics on it, I wish I could say, like, 80% or 100% were able to conceive easily. It is not everybody’s trying, but we are seeing improvements, and sometimes that still takes some time and whatnot. But we are seeing improvements in bloodwork, so inflammatory markers are better, hormone levels are better, and stress markers are better. Everything that we can track objectively up to this point, we’re seeing improvements, and we’re also seeing subjective reports of, like, women feeling better and men feeling better and like more energy in losing weight. A lot of that is great to see and great to hear and what I would expect when we’re improving cellular health. What I will say is, though, sometimes we do find someone who, because if you miss something in one of these categories, there are some stealthy things that I’ve had to discover can be like biological age sabotages. One of those is mold, which has been interesting because I never wanted to deal with mold. Then, all of a sudden, some of my fertility couples were like, That was the thing.

Aumatma Simmons, ND, FABNE, MS

We both like to read what is happening with the mold.

Katherine Zagone, ND

That’s like a toxin that sometimes gets missed, and sometimes it gets missed because testing for it can be costly. Then there’s like a whole rabbit hole you have to go down to deal with it. That’s something that I’ve seen sabotage, biological age reversal, and stealth infections like the Epstein-Barr virus and Lyme disease. I’ve seen that accelerate the biological clock. Sometimes those are a little bit harder to get, as much of a rewind on just because a lot is going on with the immune system, but that doesn’t mean we can’t get people there. It’s just oftentimes not as much of a rewind in as little time.

Aumatma Simmons, ND, FABNE, MS

Sure. and maybe it deserves more personalization, but not in those cases.

Katherine Zagone, ND

For sure.

Aumatma Simmons, ND, FABNE, MS

Any other tidbits that you’d like to share about this? I feel like it’s incredible because 15 years ago when I started doing fertility and everything based on age, that was the conversation that every person would come in with. It’s still there. It’s still the case. As people say, it’s getting younger. It’s like 33-year-olds are now being told they’re not getting pregnant because of their age. I’m like, “Since when did 33 becomes too old?” I’m very confused. I feel like this is so exciting, and it opens the door, opens up our mindsets, and also, hopefully, all of the fertility worlds will be like, you don’t have to just rely on this one thing that has to do with our physical age.

Katherine Zagone, ND

There are two things I want to share. One is that the reason we’re seeing issues younger and younger is because we’re calling them age-related. With age, it’s not that somebody, maybe four years older than somebody else, but they’ve had four more years of toxin exposure, and stress. And so we’re seeing more toxins and more stress, like the social media.

Aumatma Simmons, ND, FABNE, MS

Younger and younger age.

Katherine Zagone, ND

Yes. It’s starting at 12, 13 years old, as opposed to, like, I can’t get social media, like senior year of high school maybe.

Aumatma Simmons, ND, FABNE, MS

I started after graduate school. Facebook forever. 

Katherine Zagone, ND

Good for you. The other thing is, I’ll share what I see as the future of fertility and what we’re doing with Clockwize, Clockwize with a Z because I’m Dr. Z and this is my company where we are making this biological age testing with toxin testing available for women and couples everywhere. We’re working towards creating what’s called a fertility predictability algorithm, which means that at some point soon you can take a finger prick test. We’re still looking at those 900,000 points in your DNA. But now we’ve done enough research and gotten enough data to know which of those points at what methylation values for both you and your partner are going to predict your outcomes, and what your outcomes are going to be. We hope that using AI and deep computer learning, we will be able to say that, based on your epigenetics, at this moment between you and your partner, it looks like you guys have an 85% chance of getting four or more great embryos if you do IVF, or it looks like it’ll take you guys six months of trying naturally before you’ll conceive on your own, or it looks like you have a 12% chance of getting four or more grade-A embryos if you try right now. But here are some things that we know can improve that: then we can take somebody from 12% to 85%, which is a huge improvement in odds. If you’re going to go spend $50,000 and pump, do the hormones, and do the whole thing,  The emotional investment is a lot, as we’re looking to create something that will be first-line testing in the conventional fertility world, which will then allow doctors to offer an intervention that will help. We can test before and after to show an improvement before moving forward with a more invasive procedure.

Aumatma Simmons, ND, FABNE, MS

Awesome. That’s like this is like the crystal ball that everyone keeps asking me about. Every single couple that’s like, should I do IVF, or should I wait? How many cycles should I wait to try? I’m like, I wish I had a crystal ball. 

Katherine Zagone, ND

Everybody wants to know. so we’re working on it. We’re doing the best we can. We’re applying for NIH funding. We’re looking for more research partners. It’s in the process.

Aumatma Simmons, ND, FABNE, MS

It’s super exciting. I hope that this happens in our lifetime because it’s so needed. Like the number of couples that are struggling with fertility, I heard somewhere. I don’t know if this is officially published anywhere, but someone that I was speaking to said it’s not like one in six couples anymore. It’s probably closer to, like, one in three, which means it’s getting pretty scary. If we go the way we’re going, Men may not have sperm in 20 years or something like that. like female fertility is declining. There are so many factors that are happening all around us that, like this, could potentially be one of the game changers that propels us forward into a new age.  Hopefully, fertility is one of the indicators of overall health. Because this is not just fertility; it’s not whether or not you can have a child. It’s affecting every layer because if you have low fertility or poor fertility, you probably have poor health. It’s an early predictor of anything else breaking down in your body. Then cardiovascular disease, heart disease, diabetes, whatever—all of those are going to come later. But fertility is probably an early sign of whether or not a person is truly vitally healthy.

Katherine Zagone, ND

100%. The Buck Institute, a consortium for reproductive longevity, is looking at that. A lot of that connection between, like, the age of menopause and then how long and how healthy, like health span and lifespan, is connected to that, which is interesting research. But I agree. Fertility is a marker of health and vitality and a potential predictor of lifespan and health span.

Aumatma Simmons, ND, FABNE, MS

Thank you for the amazing work that you’re doing in the world and all that you’re contributing to this world in the field of fertility. I appreciate your time today. Thank you so much for being here.

Katherine Zagone, ND

Thank you so much, Dr. Aumatma. It is always a pleasure.