Yoga & Coaching: A PCOS Health Transformation Guide

Jo Yang, MA, NBC-HWC, 200 YTT

Yes, well, thank you very much, Dr. Gersh, for having me. I’m excited to be part of this community and also be able to serve all the women who have PCOS. Let me go back to my story. Let’s start with my story. I didn’t know I had PCOS, and it all started in high school. I first noticed my irregular periods, and at that time I didn’t know what to make of them. I just noticed this irregularity in my period and brought it up with my doctor. At that time, I was a very active person. as fairly skinny, you wouldn’t suspect that she had PCOS. I suspect that’s also how the doctor presented it. They brought it up to them, and they said it was just stress-related. I was in high school, and it’s normal to experience irregular periods yourself, especially if you’re stressed. I took their word for it, and they didn’t think much of it. It wasn’t until years later, when I went to college, that this irregular period became a prolonged period where it was almost absolute. I wasn’t experiencing it for a whole year, and midway through that process, I was kind of happy because, I’m like, I don’t have to be worried about getting pads, tampons, whatever it may be. I didn’t have to worry about it. But after a year, I started to become concerned. That’s when I started reflecting, doing my research, and reading books. PCOS came about, and I wondered: I don’t have certain symptoms that they mentioned, but I do have an irregular period. Let’s just bring it up again. I went back to my doctor, and that’s when we did further investigation. It would be an ultrasound, and then we found cysts in both of my ovaries. That’s when I was finally diagnosed with polycystic ovary syndrome. Before that diagnosis, I was just confused. I was confused. I was lost. A kind of thought was in my head. The diagnosis came as a relief. It’s odd to say that. It’s weird to say, “Oh my gosh, you have polycystic ovary syndrome.” It was a relief. That truly was, because now it no longer lives in my head. There’s a formal diagnosis, and I felt that with that formal diagnosis, I could move forward. I can figure out what the next actions are to manage it, prevent it, and heal from it. I quickly discovered there are things we need to do. We have to manage it because it can cause cancer. There are a bunch of other things that could lead to fertility, whatever they may be. All of that was just overwhelming to hear. All of that was shocking and scary. I felt a sense of shame—shame in the sense that, like, I could no longer conceive if I wanted to. That’s not completely true. But that was the story that I told myself at that time. I eventually wanted a pill and got to manage it, but I wanted to believe there was a holistic approach to managing PCOS. That’s when, out of curiosity, I came upon a holistic nutritionist who put me on a diet and helped me make some lifestyle changes.

It was at that point that I realized that there was a spark that came upon me and made me notice and realize that I just knew that I wanted to be able to help women with PCOS because, number one, it was a lonely process. It was confusing, and it’s unclear what healing looks like. But there is a process of healing. We can overcome it, and we can live a vibrant life that’s thriving. Years later, down the road, I stumbled upon health coaching. That’s when the light bulb lit up. I realized this is what I want to do. I want to become a health coach who can serve women with PCOS because I understand their pain. I can empathize with them. It’s a holistic approach to managing PCOS. It’s not just your diet or exercise; it’s all-encompassing. That’s kind of how my story unfolds and why I decided to become a health coach, helping women with PCOS.

Felice Gersh, MD

Well, that is quite a story, and it sounds like every step of the way, you had to be the investigative reporter and figure out what was going on with your own body when you finally got the diagnosis. Did anyone learn that you worked with any of the doctors who suggested a holistic approach to you? Did anyone suggest changing your diet, doing exercise, or reducing stress, or did all of that completely come from within? 

Jo Yang, MA, NBC-HWC, 200 YTT

At that time, all I can remember is when I was asking, What can I do? I was given medication. Like, that was my option, and I don’t recall any other holistic approach, but we’re like, the holistic approach comes from my mom. She always took a holistic approach to raising us when it came to our well-being because they didn’t have medication. It wasn’t something they relied on. They had to tune in to their bodies to understand their sickness and see where it was stemming from. That was kind of ingrained in me. That’s also what shaped my desire and how I wanted to heal from PCOS.

Felice Gersh, MD

Yes, I wondered where that came from because it is not typical that you just go down that path. Tell me a little bit about health coaching. A lot of people may not know what a health coach is or what you have to learn to become one. Let’s just do a deep dive into the whole topic of health coaches and health coaching.

Jo Yang, MA, NBC-HWC, 200 YTT

Yes. There are a lot of programs out there where you can become a health coach. There can be a six-month program or a one-year program. I did a variation of both. I went to an institute online in New York and got my certificate, then furthered my education at a master’s program that’s also integrative health and wellbeing coaching. I combined those two pieces of knowledge to help equip me so that I feel ready and prepared to provide the muscle and the in-depth services for women with PCOS. But it’s a new career. I feel like it just came out several years ago. I still feel like health coaching is a new concept, but what makes coaching and health coaching different? Because coaching in itself has been around for a long time. There are coaches everywhere, but health coaching in particular takes a slightly different stance in the sense that we are here not as experts but as partners with the clients that we work with. I’m going to give you three scenarios of how that works and, kind of, why I decided to also blend yoga into my coaching. I hope that this story or this imagery can help us understand how health coaching is different and what the benefits are. Imagine someone wants to fix their lifestyle, or maybe make lifestyle changes. They want to work on their diet or whatever it may be. 

They have the tools. Maybe they met a dietitian. It’s like, do X, Y, and Z. They’re on this journey; they are in this car, and they’re driving on this road. They have the tools to get there or not, the tools necessarily, but they know where they want to go. They’re writing, and they’re driving this car, and there’s maybe a pothole. They drive around it. Or maybe they get a flat tire, and they kind of know how to fix that. But then there’s this river in front of them, and they have no clue how to pass it. On this journey, they kind of end up stopping. That’s what it looks like without the guidance of a coach. Now, let’s say they’ve found a health coach and decided to have that coach join them on this journey. Well, as a health coach, we’re partnering with them. In this scenario, instead of me being the driver, they continue to be the driver, but I am the tour guide. That’s my position in this journey that we are on to better health. 

On this journey, I’ll guide them and give them options for where they can go. I’ll maybe give them the lay of the land, give them some knowledge, and equip them with tools. Maybe there’s a hill that we have to go up to encourage them to keep going when they’re feeling exhausted. Maybe there is a little river that I mentioned before. I have some tools in my pocket, and we can work together. I can give them options. This bridge’s like a mile down. You take that, you might take that boat, or you do want to build a bridge together. We can take that route. empowering them to have that ability to be able to like rate from one point to another, which is where they want to be at the end of this journey. Now, they’re driving with their health or overcoming whatever they want to overcome, be successful, or work towards. The reason why I decided to build or provide a tool of yoga as a supplement to my services is because, on this journey, imagine the same story but without any mirrors in this car. Right? Yoga is kind of like the mirror in the car. It allows you to, on your journey, be mindful of what’s around you and allows you to reflect on your experiences. At the end of this journey, not only are you creating sustainable changes because you have this health coach, but now you’re also experiencing inner transformation. Yoga has taught you this way of living, in the sense of mindfulness, the ability to reflect, and the ability to sit in the present and be mindful and practice this self-awareness, practice self-compassion. That’s why I combined health coaching and yoga because it’s not just for me; it’s not just about creating sustainable change, especially for women. With PCOS, we deal with a lot of challenges out here, but there’s also a lot of insecurity, a lot of fear, and a lot of shame in here. Yoga allows us to kind of break through some of those barriers.

Felice Gersh, MD

Let’s go back and talk a little bit about what yoga is, because I know some people have seen pictures of people balancing in very unusual positions, like on one hand. What kind of skillset does one need to go into and perform yoga properly? It sounds like it’s as much a state of mind as it is a state of body. Maybe just give up, like the ABCs of what yoga is in the first place.

Jo Yang, MA, NBC-HWC, 200 YTT

Yes, that’s such a great question because, like you said and as many of us have observed, we associate yoga with certain postures and complex postures, but yoga is much more than that. Posture is just one limb or one aspect of yoga. The essence of yoga is quieting the mind—the monkey mind—so that you can find your true self. We tend to associate yoga with poses, but it starts inward. It’s about the transformation that happens in your mind, body, and spirit.

Felice Gersh, MD

A lot of people need to learn the foundational premises of yoga as you just described. You talked about the monkey brain. A lot of people say to me, “I can’t fall asleep. I just can’t quiet my mind, or I have cravings, and I can’t quiet that inner voice that’s telling me to go eat that bag of chips as such.” Can yoga then help with those things—sleep and cravings—as well as sort of finding a sense of inner peace?

Jo Yang, MA, NBC-HWC, 200 YTT

Yes, absolutely. Yoga can help with all of that. There are different aspects of yoga. There is a philosophy of yoga. There’s a posture as we mentioned before, and there’s also meditation. All of these can become tools to help guide us and aid us when we’re making lifestyle changes. If we just break down what I said earlier—that yoga is calming the mind—then we can find our true selves. When we’re dealing with this monkey mind, yoga talks about how we can think about the monkey mind that we’re experiencing and put them in different buckets with, like, where this mindset stems from. The more that we can understand that these are monkey minds and not us, the more we can kind of detach ourselves from them. Sometimes we tell ourselves, “I’m lazy, or I’m just like, I don’t have this carb. I’m just going to eat because I don’t have the power to stop myself.” We can pause, reflect, and assess which bucket of thought this is. Is this like, is this me being, is this true, or is this me making assumptions? Is this like an idea that I’m creating in my head? Like, where does a stem from? being able to unravel that and realize that I’m not lazy; I’m just experiencing stress, and therefore I’m turning to food. That’s how we can stop ourselves from certain behaviors, be able to correct them, be able to guide ourselves and find a solution that fits the problem that we’re dealing with to the core and heart of the problem. In regards to mindfulness, when we talk about food, let’s just talk about food specifically right now. In regards to food, everybody knows that when it comes to PCOS, we’re going to have different approaches to food. Everybody’s food is going to look different because we have different symptoms and different backgrounds. Food is going to look different for all of us. But we can also experience these cravings, and meditation teaches us how to be mindful. It teaches us how to sit with ourselves, with the discomfort, and look inward and listen. Listen to ourselves, listen to our thoughts, and notice what’s around us. These skills and attitudes can transfer to our lifestyle. We can look at our food and our diet, and we can practice mindful eating. Now, sitting while we’re eating instead of rushing it, we can observe it. We can just slow down and enjoy that food. Then that’s kind of the beauty of how yoga can translate into all these areas of our health, all in the areas that we want to work on.

Felice Gersh, MD

Well, I’m glad you brought up the whole concept of mindfulness with eating because many people are eating on the run; that’s like they’re running around and can eat a meal, and then they don’t even remember what they ate because they were doing other things. They weren’t focusing on it. One of the things about running around and being busy is that a lot of people have trouble making their priorities clear to themselves. They say I don’t have time for this. I don’t have time to learn how to be mindful. I don’t have time. How do you work with your clientele to help them prioritize? To put it another way, you have to decide what matters to you. Like, how do you get people to sit down and have a mindful, enjoyable meal instead of just eating on the run?

Jo Yang, MA, NBC-HWC, 200 YTT

When it comes to time, time is such an interesting concept because time is relative to what we see. We all have the same amount of time. But some of us feel like we don’t have enough time, and some of us feel like maybe we have too much time and we don’t know what to do with it regardless of the time. That’s where coaching is impactful and powerful in the sense that we can ask these powerful questions. As you mentioned before, how do we know what’s most important to us? Simply asking and engaging in these questions can help a person define for themselves what is important. Maybe at that time, when you’re asking them, they don’t know what’s important to them. That’s where we can also guide them into themselves, remove all these ideas of what we think is important, and find the truth that’s within us. At the end of the day, what matters most to us is our health. Is work a school? Then how do we direct and guide your life in a way that resonates with what matters? As a coach, I don’t tell people what they need to do; I guide them to find their inner truth so they can live by their authentic selves. If that’s what health is for them, what matters is their health. Then I’m going to help encourage them and remind them: This is what you presented to me before. How do we live following that? What lifestyle changes do we need to make so we can uphold this value that you have? If that means time is getting in the way, what do we need to do? What do we need to change so that we can achieve the goal that you have set for yourself?

Felice Gersh, MD

Well, that’s beautiful. It brings me back to your initial analogy when you were talking about a kind of journey where you don’t just stand there and point a finger, like go that way. You take the journey with them to remind them; do you find that most of your clients, they like, lose their way if you’re not there with them? They just kind of get distracted or lose their focus. Like, how important is it to stay on the job with them as opposed to just planning things out and then setting them loose? How do you decide how much time an individual needs? Is it the same with everyone? Do you individualize that? How does this work?

Jo Yang, MA, NBC-HWC, 200 YTT

It’s important to visualize that because everybody’s different, everybody has a different motivation level, and everybody has a different lifestyle level. I recognize that we have different areas in our lives that impact our time and what we can invest in. Knowing that there isn’t a specific time frame for how long I work with someone or how much time I spend with them, it’s up to them and what they need from me. If they need a lot of assistance or support, then that’s why I’m here. That’s why I’m here to guide them. We are here to guide them so that they can reach their destination, which is where they want to go.

Felice Gersh, MD

Now, sometimes along the way, family members or friends kind of become obstructions. Do you intervene when you find that a family member is, maybe not intentionally, but does it matter? Is it happening that they’re sabotaging your client’s journey to achieve optimal health? Like, how do you handle that?

Jo Yang, MA, NBC-HWC, 200 YTT

Yes.  that happens. That’s a good question because that does happen. Our family and our network do influence us. We can’t, especially if we want to be in the community. Our families or friends may inevitably influence us and impact us on our journey to healing. In regards to those cases, this is where it’s important to teach my clients how to speak from a place of authenticity and compassion. There’s this cool tool called nonviolent communication, and that’s when you learn to convey what’s most important to you in a nonviolent way and express to them what your needs are by being able to tell them what your needs are. They can respond however they want, but at least you can communicate that to them. The most important thing is that you can communicate that to them, be able to distinguish what they want you to do from what you want to do, and be in control of the actions that you take. Maybe your family won’t agree with your lifestyle changes. Maybe they want that. Maybe they don’t want to eat what you want to eat. That’s okay because we aren’t in control of other people’s choices, but we are in control of ourselves, and we can decide how we want to show up. We also have every right to share with other people how we want to show up and how we want to live. That’s our right, and that’s our freedom. I teach and empower clients to be able to have the tools and the ability to, number one, communicate their needs and what they want support to look for them, learn how to accept what is received and be able to know that they can continue on the path even if other people don’t support them.

Felice Gersh, MD

That is powerful and empowering for everyone who’s learning how to control their destiny by handling the people in their lives. Because that’s not, like you said, a small matter. Now, you’ve talked a lot about the emotional and mental issues related to yoga. What about the physical part? Do you encourage your clients to learn a few basic poses, and what’s the benefit of doing them? People have heard of a child’s pose and some of the other types of positioning. Tell us a little bit about that part of yoga.

Jo Yang, MA, NBC-HWC, 200 YTT

Yes. When I am in my coaching sessions, I usually offer grounding because I know that we all have our own lives, and maybe we come into a session and it’s just been a chaotic day. I want myself and my client to be present. I do. Or I may offer some yoga poses or some meditation—I call them grounding exercises. I may offer that one benefit of engaging in these postures and not that one has to the benefit of engaging in this posture is, number one, the demeanor that we come into, where we are in these postures. Sometimes it creates a fire in us and brings out the energy within us. Sometimes it calms us, relaxes us, and allows us to dove inward and be able to experience certain sensations and be aware of certain tensions that may be present within our body. That’s one of the benefits of engaging in these postures in the sense that it can not only bring up the heartbeat but also teach us how to relax our bodies. We need a balance of that. We need to be able to if we want more energy, light that up through vigorous poses. At the same time, if we’re especially in a very stressful state, we should be able to find ways to remedy that and calm the body as a whole. Poses, or asanas, as we like to call them, can do that for us.

Felice Gersh, MD

Well, that sounds like a wonderful thing for people to give a try. I know that a lot of people talk about yoga and breathing. Maybe you could talk a little bit about the role of breathwork in yoga and how that helps women with PCOS feel better.

Jo Yang, MA, NBC-HWC, 200 YTT

Yes. The breathwork, or pranayama, that we like to call it, can be beneficial and clear for all of us. There are different types of breathwork that we can engage in. Some of us may have heard of the four, seven, and eight; I believe there is a box breathing. All different types work for us. I would say to listen to your body to know which breath works for you because some can be hard for us, I wouldn’t recommend all different types of breathing, but find one that works for you and one that you feel you can do. Breathing is just being able to have that breath, be kind of the anchor into a state of calmness, into a state of relaxation. The more that you can allow your breath to anchor you, the more you can settle into your body, and you’ll start noticing just about everything melting away. The only thing that you hear left is your breath. That can be a powerful experience. It’s going to be an experience that varies from person to person. But the more that we do that, the more that we create this cleansing experience throughout the whole body, the more that we can calm the whole body and kind of also create this posture of openness to receive what may be needed to be received, the ability to just clear the mind and let go. So, there are many benefits to just breathing because we don’t. Although breathing is something that we often don’t think about, it happens naturally. We also don’t realize how ineffectively we breathe. We don’t realize that we take our breath for granted. Being able to engage in and breathe these breathing exercises allows us to notice that we have control of our breath, even though it’s automatic, and that there is something special about being able to engage in that.

Felice Gersh, MD

Well, I couldn’t agree more when I first learned about yoga and breathing and then tried it. Once you learn it, you can never abandon it. It’s remarkable in its benefits, and you can feel it instantly. It’s not like delayed gratification. You feel it instantly. Everyone should learn some of these different breathing techniques. Now, many of our listeners and viewers want to get pregnant. Not all, but some of them do. Do you have any different approaches for women with PCOS or struggling with fertility?

Jo Yang, MA, NBC-HWC, 200 YTT

I don’t have any specific approaches when it comes to fertility, just because that isn’t my expertise. I want to be mindful of what is within my realm. But there are plenty of yoga postures that allow us to tap into the different organs in different parts of our body to just kind of open that up or release that. There are poses where you can lay on the ground and do the bar fight pose, and just open up that area, be able to release that tension, and find relaxation. There’s also talk about chakras, and there is the sacral, which’s kind of like in your pelvic area. There’s a lot of poses where you can tap into that area, that sacral area, that creates intimacy, that creates sexuality, creativity, that kind of life there. I would say that’s a great place to start, especially if fertility is important to you. Start there, starting at a place where you can start feeling the fire that burned energy, and bring that energy towards that area. I hope that will encourage fertility.

Felice Gersh, MD

Well, that’s great. That’s what I was hoping that you’d share because I had also heard that certain yoga poses do help promote fertility. Much can be done that involves mind and body medicine, and what I’m hearing from you is that yoga is almost a philosophy of life. It’s like an approach to everything in life. Do you find that when you teach that with health coaching and combining yoga, people have transformations in how they view everything?

Jo Yang, MA, NBC-HWC, 200 YTT

Yes, absolutely.  I can take myself as an example of that experience. It’s also why I decided to blend these two and know that yoga is a piece I want to offer as a tool for my clients during my own experience, especially with PCOS. Even though I didn’t look the part and people thought that I was driving, I was okay, and there was a lot of emotional turmoil having to deal with PCOS. There was a lot of shame and a lot of loneliness, and I was not able to express that pain to anyone. I held it, and I felt insecure. I felt like I was never enough, especially as a woman. I felt like I was never enough, and now all just lived inside me, and nobody could see that. But I felt it day in and day out, even though I went to see a therapist and talked about maybe some of these feelings of not feeling enough to be able to feel good for a moment. But it wasn’t until I got on my mat that I felt this release, this sense of letting go, this sense of surrender, and this sense of self-acceptance. Through all of that expansion, I found that there is this transformation that we can experience. Now, transformation is going to look different for everybody. Yoga is a way of life, but it’s also a practice. It’s a daily practice. It’s not just one where you go on to your mat and then now you’re all better and you’re all transformed. It’s a consistent practice. It’s day in and day out and being able to challenge some of those beliefs that maybe we have about ourselves limiting beliefs and being able to sit in the discomfort or that transformation can happen.

Felice Gersh, MD

Now, Jo, everyone who has been watching this interview wants to proceed to learn yoga. I can guarantee you that everyone wants this transformation. What would be the next step to learning about health, coaching, and yoga and perhaps working with you? Maybe you could share a little bit about your business and what the next steps could be for all of our viewers.

Jo Yang, MA, NBC-HWC, 200 YTT

Yes, absolutely. You can find me at www.findjoflow.com/PCOSSOS. That website will be specifically for all our listeners today. There’s also 50% off on my health coaching services and a free consultation; that’s where you can find me when it comes again. It’s pretty simple and clear regarding my services. It’s primarily health coaching, coupled with yoga as a tool. Together, I hope that we can create this transformation when it comes to managing PCOS. This is my mission around my business, and everybody’s going to serve women with PCOS differently, but my hope, goal, and mission is to allow us to redefine what PCOS is. I thought about this for a long time, and I wish I had this for myself. It felt like banishing PCOS. It just took over my life. It became all aspects of my life, from every choice I made to what I did and didn’t do. PCOS was the thought that a sector affected us. I hope that through my coaching services, someone who is who I coach will end up redefining what PCOS looks like for them and realize that PCOS no longer is polycystic ovary syndrome for us. But PCOS becomes a positive body; it becomes a community connection; it becomes overcoming our symptoms through lifestyle changes and self-compassion, as we again redefine and find her flow with PCOS.

Felice Gersh, MD

Oh, I just love your approach and how you take charge to redefine how you view your condition and your life and then help all of your clients take a different view of who they are and what they can be. It’s beautiful, and I cannot thank you enough for joining me for this episode. I’m sure everyone is going to want to listen to it again and then find out from you how to proceed in this manner because this is such an amazing tool. Knowing is one thing; doing is another. You enable the doing, and that leads to the ultimate result. I just want to thank you again, and I look forward to having more contacts with you in the future.

Jo Yang, MA, NBC-HWC, 200 YTT

Thank you for having me.