For starters, I have to give people listening in full transparency that you and I talk literally every day. So they're about to jump into a conversation, a depth of a conversation that you and I would probably be happy having every single day.

Don't you think, Melissa? I do. And I think that's that's what I want to bring to this. I think that people just need to hear more of that. Yeah, we all need to be really real.

And enough of like everybody showing up on these podcasts and showing the polished, perfect version and not the other stuff that's so much more relatable.

1,000%. And I would say the other thing that I have experienced in my friendship with you is that we both have a growth mindset, so we're both focused on how do we expand our mind, how do we make our life better.

But the other really interesting piece that I don't think women do enough is what an incredible cheerleader I can say I feel like you are for me and it's and I hope I'm the same back, but I think it's real.

It's really rare when you look at friendships to have that purity to it where you're just wanting to cheer your friend on. And when they're they have a win, it's your win.

And I think there's something magical about that kind of friendship. So I have to start off by thanking you because it's just a beautiful friendship. And I love, love, love being your friend.

I that I feel exactly the same and I feel like you really set that tone. You're one of the first people that I met that, you know, I sat down next to you at one of the first events we were at together.

And I remember you saying, I wrote this book. It hit Amazon bestseller, and you can do it, too, and I'll tell you how. And I was like, whoa, this is different.

Like, this is amazing. So you really set that tone. And I know you've always been about collaboration, not competition, and all the things that you're doing for women, supporting women.

Like it's just time. I think it's time. I know women have had those friendships in the past, but not on this massive scale. And no, I'm so grateful for a friendship.

Yeah, 1,000%. The other thing that I find even now that's so fascinating watching you is your your own self growth within being a very, very active mother.

Like, I look at that and I want everybody I want you to go through the ages of your kids because I didn't. I lost myself in both parenting and work and I didn't put myself growth in that mix.

And I see you do that. So well. And one of the things I really wanted to highlight in this conversation is how did you come to this place where you realized I wasn't going to lose myself?

And in motherhood, I wasn't going to lose myself as a doctor, as a wife. I was going to really put myself and my self-love and my self-improvement at the center of all of these relationships.

I think there's a lot we can all learn from that. Yeah, I mean, I definitely don't do it perfectly. So I always want people to know I'm not going to I don't ever want people to put me up on a pedestal and think that I'm doing something that big.

I always want to show up very real. I want to show the struggles. We have a 12 year old, a ten year old, two boys, and then a six year old girl. And I love knowing people's story because once, you know, like the why behind people are how they are or why, why they make the decisions they make, it's just you get a little window into their life.

And for me, I got Lyme disease really, really bad. When the kids were young and it rocked my world. And, you know, help has always been my number one value, but that leveraged it in a way that nothing else has ever done for me.

I realized if I wasn't good, my family's not good. So, you know, it was a really hard journey to go through. I couldn't show up for them the way that I wanted to show up.

I struggled in my patients like the things I had to do to be able to function, like slamming caffeine and aspirin. And it was just really, really hard for about a year.

Like I realized being selfish is one of the most selfless things that I can do and think I'm, you know, I'm an empath like many women. And it's so easy for us to, like, just take care of everybody else.

And all my friends, it's me. My kids need me. It doesn't matter that I'm tired or need to sit on the couch or need to recover. I want to read this book like their needs come first and getting Lyme disease is the thing that really changed that for me.

So, you know, my value is health and that makes those everyday decisions so much easier. Like, I need this quiet moment in the morning, but my daughter wants to go outside and play.

And as hard as it can be to say no, sometimes, like I consider no nourishing oneself. Like it's okay to say no to her and say yes to me when I need that.

And I'm like, Oh, my. Kid. You, you know. Yeah, that is huge. Because I was not that mother. I literally was the mother that would work all day and then come home and give all day and and I could feel my spirit and my body just over the course of the years just get drained.

So what? Help us understand how we can shift that mindset. And I think it does. If you don't have kids, I think this is actually it can be your spouse.

It can be your job, it can be your friends. There is sort of this martyr that lives in a lot of women, which is I'm supposed to show up and give first to everybody around me.

And if I do, then I will get love back and or I will get self-worth back. And what I think, right, I think what you said is really powerful is self selfishness, is a form of self-love.

But we don't own that. So and I don't think you always came with that mindset. So outside of Lyme, like how do we how did you develop that Lyme set or that Lyme set?

That was actually pretty good. That's maybe I just answered it. It's a line set. How did you develop that mindset and how can we help women make that bridge from Oh God, you're tell I'm craving being selfish, but it scares the shit out of me.

Yeah. I mean, I think what you touched on is every woman's struggle, whether you have kids or you don't like. We put we naturally put everyone's needs before our own.

And I read this quote that I really resonated with and I stuck it on my knee or I'm big on, like putting those quotes, putting those reminders, reading those books that inspire you.

It said, you know, overcommitting and showing up for others doesn't make you a good person. It makes you a frustrated one. And notice this, all these times that I was giving, giving, giving, and then how I would feel after and I would feel resentful and tapped out.

And when I wanted to say no to certain events, but I said yes, I would show up and like not even show up the way I'd want to show up anyway. So, you know, I think it's a few things.

It's boundaries, right? I'm getting in establishing their boundaries. And so that's something I encourage women to do, whether it's journaling or, you know, I'm big on creating space for yourself, creating quiet.

Yeah, you do that so well. There's so much clarity that comes from that. And I mean, that's a whole message in and of itself. But when you have that quiet space, you realize what it is that you need.

You're pissed off, you're angry, you're resentful. Why? Why are you Feeling? write about it? Like do a word dump if you're scared of someone seeing it like rip it up and throw it away because in that you'll get the answers and those answers are what's going to help you in those moments.

Say no when you need to say no and I there was a time my husband was out of town, day six, and I had like three kids over and I hit my limit. And so the next day I was like, oh my gosh, I'm feeling so much anger, so much resentment. Why?

And I realized I just can't show up for people that way on day six and my husband being out of town. So that's a boundary I don't have over when he's traveling, or at least not on the tail end of it.

Yeah. Boundaries are a big one being okay. Saying no to events to say yes to yourself. I think it's important as well. And like I sure just earlier, I use the acronym Nourish Oneself.

When I say no. Do you is there like an internal guidance inside of you that goes, whoa, I have been giving too much. Now there's I've got to start to separate myself and put myself in a space where I can heal myself because I will tell you twofold.

One, I've been at conferences with you where we're all connecting and then you are really clear. You're like, I need a night by myself. And it it always teaches me because I'm like a measure.

I'm like, Oh, here's all the and maybe that's the extrovert me. You know, it's like, Oh, there's all these people here, I should probably do that. And then I come home from a trip and I'm completely exhausted.

So I'm curious if you have some cues on the inside. And then the second question I have is something I've noticed recently when I really hit burnout from book touring and traveling so much is that I noticed that when I would go into an event, I would literally come out and be nauseous.

I was tanked, I was nauseous, I was tired and my brain started to go, Wait a second. This is the phrase nervous system. You are no longer in fight or flight.

You have gone in to the freeze nervous system and you're going to need to rehab this nervous system. But I think so many of us don't have that internal guidance.

We don't know until it's completely broken. Yeah, well, we all have that internal guidance and I think that's where the space comes in. We all have this very clear voice inside of us that's whispering what we actually need because we've quieted it for so long.

We've quieted it with the scrolling. You know, I'm totally guilty of this. But like in that quiet moment for yourself, what is it that you do? Do you sit and actually listen or are we scrolling social media and emails to feel some sort of a connection?

There's so much clarity in that space for what it need. And then, you know, we both travel a lot, everyone else's bandwidth, like we're all chockfull and so we all have this different version of like what are the things that tip our bucket?

And I know for people like us who travel a lot, like we live on the East Coast, so much of our travel is West Coast. So I dinner is at 8 p.m. which is 11.

I go back to like 8:39 p.m.. So you know, at times I'll make the intention and I'll make a conscious choice to choose to stay out. But what I was realizing as I was getting home on Monday and I couldn't show up for my kids, I couldn't do the things that I needed to do, and I didn't have the choice to sleep in.

You know, many of us don't like we all have jobs and stuff, but I would go into line relapses and to me that just it wasn't worth it. There's some times when it is like we're all out here having so much fun, but you know, I've become the Queen of Irish X.

It's like I just I'm not apologizing for what half those people aren't going to be with me Monday morning when I'm not feeling great. And there's times when, like, the night, like, just isn't worth it.

Like, I'll play during the day. So I really, I one of the things I've done in the last year or two is really tap into that inner guidance. And again, we all have it, especially us women and it takes very little time.

But like we'll be at the conference and then you have a minute in your hotel room before you change to go out. Like I'll sit in that hotel room and I'll be like, What is it that I actually need and want tonight?

What I actually need and want tonight is a bubble bath and watch a movie. Like what a treat then that's what I'm. Yeah, and which is beautiful. I've gotten really clear on the people that are going to be in my inner circle are the people that aren't going to be mad at me for the boundaries that I myself.

And you know, some people have drifted away, but like, why are we going to fake this life that doesn't work for us to keep people close to people that understand our boundaries are going to show up and establish, like the best relationships in the last year or two.

Oh, it's so beautiful. I, I hope people don't miss what you just said, because when you are taking care of yourself, you actually can be a better friend, you can be a better mom, you can be a, you know, a better spouse.

So it in and it to me, it boils down in to this idea that I'm always thinking about my tomorrow self. So I realized that today the things I do today are going to affect me tomorrow.

And it's literally that mode that runs through my head all day long. What do I want tomorrow self to be like? Do and that's what I just heard in that is like, well, I have this condition and I want to call it like I have this situation in my body with Lyme where if I overdo it, I'm going to my tomorrow's self is not going to be happy.

And so do you find yourself thinking through that lens a lot where it's like, I can't just think of the pleasure of the moment or the responsibility of the moment, but I've got to also think about who I want to show up as tomorrow.

100%. I mean, it's not even for me. It's not even usually when I'm anymore like, I've gotten so far past that, thankfully. But yeah, like I, you know, I've had enough deaths in people in my life early on that like the biggest gift I've gotten from that is the value of time.

I don't want to waste a minute and so have a day where I don't feel great. That is one of the things that bothers me the most. I want to take advantage of every piece of every single day, whatever that looks like, even if it's just having joyful moments.

And so, yes, in that moment where I'm checking in with myself, it's like, what do I want my tomorrow? I'll be like, If it's a trip home, do I want to have a nice trip on the plane?

Do I want to be feeling hung over and exhausted? And I know nobody wants that. That's horrible, right? You always start the entry, right? That day. You get home from a trip, it's re entry.

You can pretty much bank that stuff's going to come up. There's no in the house like it's just there's a lot to it. So yeah, I think, I think that's a big thing.

And I think also I needed to have models for myself. So we've all been at an event and I think it's rare and I hope it's getting more common where people are just very forthcoming with their boundaries.

Like it is getting more common. I'm not missing out. I'm going to have a night in have so much fun. I'll see you tomorrow. Boom. And where you right now.

Thing is so. Powerful. No you are literally watching you has inspired me to be able to set more boundaries. And what I'm noticing is that as I set more boundaries, then other women watching me start to say, wow, you know, that inspired me.

And as you know, I recently canceled a bunch of travel because I just felt like my health was going down a really bad path and and it was really hard.

And, you know, what I got was a lot of the words I got back as I'm disappointed, oh, so many people, people I love and respect were like, I'm disappointed.

I'm disappointed in this decision. And it was a really hard moment for me to be able to say That's okay. They can be disappointed in me. I'm not disappointed in me.

And that is the most important thing, is how I feel that I'm taking care of myself. So are you hearing I'm disappointed in you? Aw, come on. Aren't you coming out with us?

Or can't you push through this? Like, do you get that? And how do you navigate that moment? A lot of that second one, like, come on, it's just one night.

We're going to have so much fun and a lot and a lot of those people that are the ones saying those things don't have kids that they're going back to and you know, they in on Monday.

And so I just think about like, okay, well, if I were to wake you up on Monday at 5 a.m. when I need to be up and start my day, you wouldn't want to do that either.

So you would have a boundary around that. This is just a conversation I have in my head, so I'm okay. And I think when we realize like we're the number one person that we need to stand up for, which again is I think, a practice because we're spending time with ourselves, we don't know ourselves anymore.

We're so we're true. Everybody else is doing, whether it's our friends or on social media, like creating that reconnect with ourselves is so powerful because then you'll stand up for yourself.

You don't? Yeah. It's difficult to disappoint other people. It's harder to disappoint yourself. It's so true. But we're disconnected from ourselves and I really feel like that's a big piece.

So, okay, the other thing that I love your free spirit and your willingness to think bigger than your roles. So when I look at your role as a mother, when I look at your role as a doctor, your role as a wife, what I see is that you actually have a very expanded view of each one of those roles, and you've put yourself and your your own desires in the middle of each one of those roles so that those those those relationships can actually flourish.

And this is what it looks like from the outside looking in that I just want everybody to now is a you're always reading a ton of books. I swear. I read a lot of books and I can't I can't keep up with you.

You're always doing crazy activities like like free diving and things like that. But the most recent one that has you, I've told you, just blows me away.

And I absolutely love is that you've gone back to gymnastics. And I got to tell you that I think most adults would be like, oh, that was for kids. That was a time.

But you're like, no, I loved it as a child. And it's a way of reclaim me in my spirit as an adult. So talk a little bit about that journey because it was really fun to watch you and what I'm hoping people listening to are going to see is that we get so serious as adults and we forget that that childlike, playful spirit can still be ignited in us and it's really a great tool to use, to tap into, to be a great mom, to be a great wife, to be a great, a great doctor.

So talk a little bit about that decision. Yeah, I just want to start talking about the books first because yes, I do read a lot. I mean, my kids are at the age where we're traveling a lot on an airplane.

I can actually bring a book. So like when they were little, I wasn't reading as much. It was just difficult. But you know, I read 10 minutes at night and a half hour in the morning, like it's you can blow through a book so quickly.

That was just. Yeah. And if you don't feel like you have that time, put one of those timers on your phone, your iPad to time, how much screen time you're using and how much of that is spent on social media apps like Just for Playing Time.

Yeah, I love books and one of the books that I read recently was called The Artist Way. It's your best books I've ever read. I encourage everybody to read it.

That's what got me back to gymnastics. So, you know, I think all of us had some activity that we loved as a kid. It's usually around the ages of like 5 to 11, like some passion playing the piano, dancing.

Like for mine it was gymnastics and it was one of these things I never even admitted to myself because I was like, It's gone. It's so far gone. I'm 42 years old.

I can't do gymnastics. And then one of my friends posted a video and it was like, these people, they're probably mid thirties doing acro and gymnastics and for whatever reason I think it was the timing of me reading that book and seeing a person who looked like they were kind of my age and I was like, I can do this like I can go back.

It has been I mean, you know how many times I've message you like I literally found God in the gymnasium. Like, I've never felt so good. I love that. It's so passionate.

And I mean, you know, it takes time away from the family. But I come home and I'm so lit up that Jason's like, How many times do you want to go? Like, I'll take care of the kids because I'm such a better version of myself through getting back to that piece of me, you know?

Right, right. Yeah. And I think that's the the inspiration that I see is that you chose to go into an environment that lit you up. And again, when I look at what happens to so many women as we get older is that we put responsibility first and and in that, we lose those things that light us up.

And I one of my favorite quotes is don't think about what the world needs. Think about what lights you up, because what the world needs is more people that are lit up.

And I would say if I could go back and redo mothering, I feel like I would really put that at the forefront of my values of like show my kids that I can go into many environments and it can excite me.

And that is a form of self-love. So talk a bit about like how do your do you talk to your kids? Like, did you talk to your kids about why you went back to gymnastics?

Do you talk about the free diving? Like, do they see this incredible you know, I call you a free spirit. And I mean that in all the positive ways that their mother is.

Do you talk about why you choose to do that so that hopefully one day they will choose to put their happiness at the forefront first? Yeah, I do. And like a lot of these things, you know, we're talking about free diving, gymnastics, these are classes, these are activities.

They do take time. And just like a lot of parents on here, women on here, men on here, I do have a really busy schedule. I just put these things as top priority.

I do talk to my kids about it, especially my daughter. Like I want her to see that as much as I love to cook and nourish and take care of our family and I like to work and create, I also have this life outside of them.

I think that's really important. And I had messaged you, you know, I was in this gymnastics private coaching for I think two weeks and there was a kids gymnastics competition at this gym.

It's the same gym my kids go to. And my coach said, I want you to compete. And it was a really scary moment because that's literally when I quit gymnastics, when I was almost two, I was scared to compete.

And you told me you were like, do it. Like let these little girls see you do it. Yeah. And I can't tell you how many little girls come up to me like I'm out and about in Miami.

And these little girls were, like, kind of staring at me. It's happened like three times, and the parents will come up and they're like, Were you the girl in the gymnastics competition?

Like my daughter to come say hi? Like, as if I'm some famous whatever. I love it all. Literally all kids and then me like Big Bertha doing these moves that.

But it was so fun. And I mean that really your words helped me so much. And these literally, like the girls that were sitting there training me on, I don't know what that did for them.

You know, I get that one day they'll look back and remember, like, this doesn't have to stop. When I get older and have kids, I can still come back to me.

I can still do that. Yeah. And that's what I see is how true you are to yourself in the middle of a very, very busy lifestyle. And I, I think if I put myself in Kenya's position, your daughter, I'm like, I wonder what it's like to look at you from a little girl standpoint, looking at her mother, doing all these amazing, fun activities that light her up.

And I think what a lot of little girls do when they look at their mothers is they see this really responsible human. And I think that's what we think is the lens in which we like.

We're doing good work. If they see how how I have given so much to them. But I'm just like, I'm like trying to rebrand feminism. Like, I just feel like as women we really have this wrong that is not necessary to give yourself completely a way to your family, to your job.

In fact, it actually models something worse for your children than if you actually show them, Hey, I've taken ownership over myself, my happiness. I'm pouring into me first and then I can be an amazing mom.

Do you get do you get any does kind of have any like do have conversations with her? Does she have any idea? I mean. Is it she's a free spirit, too? Yeah, she's a free spirit.

And she's very, very smart. She's she's an incredible little girl having nothing to do with what I've done. But I've spoken to all my kids since they were very young age, almost like adults, like just had very real conversations at their level, obviously.

But, you know, for quiet for all of them, I think what I do that's really important, at least for them, is I share the intention. So they're not just seeing me like out on family dinner to go to my gymnastics class.

Like, I'm very clear. I want dinner with you guys. This is one of my favorite rituals and like, I really need this time to fill my tank so that I can take care of all of you at the highest level.

But that's enough for them to face the ending them. Yeah, I, what I'm really wanting to do in there is give them cues that they can do this too. I think that's one of the biggest things I want to teach them.

Take care of yourself, do it passionate about. I don't care what you choose as a career as long as you love it. Yeah. So what would you say to the woman that's listening to this that is resonating with what you're saying, feeling captive within the responsibility of her life and the roles of her life?

Where's the door? Out. How do we start to help her create steps to discovering herself so that she can also, you know, be amazing for those around her, but also she can be true to herself.

Do you have steps that you would encourage her to take? Yeah, I think creating space is a really huge first step. Right. So create quiet time for yourself and that might just be in your car, right?

Turn off. Turn off the noise. Just nothingness, because you'll start to talk to yourself. You'll start to hear that inner voice and that inner whisper.

You'll start to hear what it is that you really want. And I think that's a really important first step. And I think the other thing is, like a lot of these things don't have to take a lot of time.

They don't have to take a lot. My one friend, she she used to tap dance when she was little, so she bought herself a pair of tap shoes on Amazon. She's like between emails.

I get up and I tap dance and she's like, I suck at it. But you know what? It makes me so happy. So you can go far. Such a great idea. The other day, I bought, like, a, like a belly dancing skirt on Amazon $10.

And I went around my house in between emailing. And I mean, you better believe I locked that door. I locked it and I danced and like it. Like, the point is, it doesn't have to be this big, difficult thing to access it.

2 minutes, 3 minutes here and there. But the key is asking yourself, what is it that you miss? What is it that you want, that you need, and then create it for yourself?

And what does your husband think? Because the other thing I can see, like I put myself in the shoes of people who are like, this is really great for you, but my husband's not going to appreciate me taking that much time off.

My husband might laugh at me if I start belly dancing like, you know, and Jason is more serious than you, although he's got a great sense of humor, you know, how did how did you bring like, have you always been like this since the day you met him or have you had conversations with him like, hey, here's where I'm going to make a stand for myself and this is what it might look like?

Yeah, I think that's a really great question. That's a really real challenge that a lot of women have. And I think if you do it in private, like if you don't feel supported by your husband yet, do it in private.

And I'm going to be a little bit vulgar for a minute, but like one of my patients a long time ago, she was talking about how she wanted like new yoga pants and she wasn't the breadwinner in the family.

And she felt like she needed to ask her husband for the money. And I know that's probably somewhat of a common situation. And she's like, you know what?

Like, my husband sees that when I go to yoga, I'm happy that equals more for him. And so he's good. At his courtesy. She spoke his. Way, but like our men want us to be happy.

They want us to be thriving. And so as much as they might giggle or push back, like when you are showing up as the best version of yourself, your family can't help but love and appreciate that it means you're going to take better care of everyone around you.

You're going to. It's just a lighter. Like it's one of those things that very easily builds on itself. And again, if you need to do these things in private, I think do them in private.

There's things that I do with Jason and I tell Jason and there's things like I said, like when I was doing that belly dance, I locked the door. I made sure I was away from our cameras in our house.

Like I was like, You are not witnessing this part. This is secret. So, you know, find your balance. Find your rhythm, but love that the more you do these things, you're going to see, like your family, all those around, you're going to be like, sounds different.

You're pretty light lately. And I like that. Yeah, it's attractive. It is really attractive to be around people that are living their truth. It's it's incredible.

So you talk a little bit about the Be Inspired Mama podcast because you started that, what, a year ago and why what have you learned? Why did you start it and what did you learn in it?

Because I remember the first time you told me that you were going to start this podcast. I'm like, That's brilliant moms aren't talking about this. We need to teach moms how to become that inspired person, not to give all their power away to their family so why did you start it and what have you learned in interviewing people?

Yeah, I started it probably about seven months ago. I mean, it was part of my journey. Like, I feel like I've recently found my voice, which has been my you.

Have. Inward personal journey and I have a lot to say. Come to find out I. Feel I am. I have the same thing. I'm like, wow, I didn't know I had so much to say, so I would agree. Yes.

Yeah. So this was like my first creative outlet. It was a really big step for me to do something outside of just my relationship with Jason. We do a lot of work together and that's super fun and I wanted this other platform that was just mine, and so I wanted to bring on people, you know, kind of like I mentioned the beginning.

I love knowing people's stories because then you understand why they do what they do. So I wanted to my goal is to help the next generation. And I want to do that to the moms because when moms are good, when moms are up belly dancing, doing gymnastics, taking that space for ourselves, like we take great care of our children or those around us for those who don't have kids.

And so I want to inspire women to get back to that. So I've done so far are a lot around other women, even men that have had these challenges and setbacks and pushed through them.

And, you know, I want to it was like my first kind of year to play. And there's some other things I want to do. I want to change it up a little bit, but it's been really cool to get to know people, you know, people that have been in our circle for for a while to kind of crack them open and like, yes, what they've gone through, some people stuff has just shocked me, you know that saying you never know what someone's going through now, so to speak.

Then like I think that's been one of the biggest take home messages for me is like everyone has stuff. Yeah, everyone, no matter what kind of home or upbringing you came from.

And I came from like a really loving family unit and I've done a lot of work that's probably could be called trauma work. I don't feel like I had, you know, my life wasn't threatened.

I wasn't sexually abused or anything like that. But like we all have these things that are our story and yeah, so, you know, between doing the podcast and taking some deeper work, some time to work a little bit deeper on myself, I just, it makes me so appreciate people and all that is who we are.

And like. Yeah, I think City. Has some really unique relationships in my life in the last year. Like, I want to go deeper right away. I want to know who you tell.

Yeah. And I usually deep down. Like here I am. Yes. But I think I think there's such power in all of us standing up as our most authentic self. It's really hard.

I mean, you definitely get aros I you and I have talked about this and I see this on my platform and yet it's necessary it's so necessary to show up as authentic as we possibly can.

I will tell you, and I don't I'm not sure if I actually told you this part of it. In this next book that I'm writing, I've been really about what's the most vulnerable version of myself, where is the real depth of me that I can share in this book?

And I was actually talking to LeAnn about this, and she was saying, Oh, I would tell you to go to the core of what is the the most vulnerable thing can say.

And I would say that because it frees you. So we're talking about self-protection and taking good care of yourself. We're talking about authenticity and being authentic to your true nature.

Where does vulnerability fit into your life? And it could be vulnerability with your kids, with your husband, with your friends, with your all your podcast audience.

How do you use vulnerability as a strength, not not a weapon against yourself? Yeah. Oh, that's such a good question. I mean, you know, there is this other I love quotes again and there was this one that resonated with me.

It was Speak your truth and your tribe will show up. So I'm just I'm just done pretending. I'm done doing it in the way that I feel like other people want or need because what I'm realizing is that I never really gained true connection from that.

And some I'd rather someone like for me I guess it's me and it's meant leaning all into whatever relationships I have and being okay if there's very few, but they're full and connected, so that means standing.

For me, vulnerability means staying true to my boundaries because that's very that's very risky. We run the chance of disappointing people and that can create a lack of connection, which is like so many of our deepest, darkest fears.

There's a lot of stuff on the podcast, you know, speaking my truth, saying things that I've never even said to friends out loud. And that's kind of where I want to go deeper.

It like I do want to do some more solo episodes and not that everyone cares or wants to know about my life, but I think just to inspire other people like the things that we're so scared to share, I think, are the things that make us so interesting.

Right? Oh, that was so well said. I was just thinking as you were talking, I'm like, if we don't share the things that scare us, we actually now become people that are in the box, right.

And in the box is I'm going to give you the highlight version of me. Right. And in that we don't help anybody else because what ends up happening is you are encouraging the other person to give the highlight version of you.

And what's really interesting in my discussion with so many women that I've decided is that when women feel bad about themselves or they feel less than they don't lash out at the person that instigated that feeling.

They lash out at. Whereas I think I think men are like if if somebody reflects says, hey, dude, you fucked up that they're like they're like well, whatever, you know, yeah.

They're like, you know, forget you. And they don't turn on themselves. But as women we turn on ourselves and that is what I'm trying to break free is we have to stop talking so negatively to our self.

So do you have moments where and I have moments I turn on myself and then I but I catch it. I'm like, Why am I saying this to myself? Do you have moments where you say horrible things to yourself and you have to reframe it?

Do you catch it like help us think that through for how your brain works? Yeah, I think absolutely we all do. But I think one of the biggest growth steps we can all take is becoming conscious of it rather than just letting it consciously.

So perfect example, like when you're doing something that requires no thought, whether it be showering, driving to work, doing the dishes, that's when those voices come, right?

You're replaying come. You're thinking about your day. So like when you can make the unconscious thought conscious, it no longer has power over you. You know?

There's that book by Michael Singer, Untethered. Untethered Soul. So good. Yeah, that was for me. Because it teaches you to be a the observer. Yes. Your take off out of, like, this ego.

Right. So it's like, whoa, I'm talking all these things about myself and literally just just understanding that it's not real. It's not true. It's this.

It's this ego or this voice. Yeah. Brings so much power and clarity. Yeah. That the idea that don't believe everything that you that your brain is telling you, I think is really powerful.

But I think as women, we have we have so many wounds trying to keep up in this patriarchal world. And again, this is why I'm in such admiration of how you show up as a mother, because in the patriarchal world, even if you're a working mother, it's like you give your heart and soul and everything you have every piece of you to your children saving nothing left for yourself.

And that's how we've been taught subconsciously, even like like I think back when I was a kid. Now I know I'm a little less than a decade older than you, but I used to watch Leave It to Beaver.

Did you ever watch Leave It to Beaver? Editor June Cleaver was the classic amazing mom had everything, all her ducks in a row. My mom was amazing mom.

And yet in them, as the modern world has more physical stress, more emotional stress, more chemicals stress it, it is becoming harder and harder for women to operate in that way.

So if you if you were talking if you were giving advice to a woman who's really drowning and trying to find herself in motherhood, she's lost herself.

What advice would you give her? God, I know I've said it a few times, but I just feel like the biggest, most important thing and it's the simplest but it's not easy is creating space.

So like so when we're talking just a minute ago about the subconscious thoughts and how nasty we are to ourselves, well, what do we usually do when we hear that yuck stuff?

We feel yucky and then we distract ourselves. So what is it that give you an easy hit of feeling good? Is it looking on social media? Is it getting out of work email and feeling like you accomplished something?

Like, we all have done that and it's not working anymore. It's not working. I think one of the biggest things that I want for all women to do is create that space to to notice these voices, these things that we're telling ourselves, and then go deeper with it.

If you can't in the moment, promise yourself time later, like, okay, tomorrow morning, I'm going to wake up, I'm going to have time alone, I'm going to journal or I'm going to sit and think about that.

Like, why do I talk to myself like that? Why do I say, You idiot? Why did you do that? Like, where does that come from? And just keep asking yourself why?

And Ryan And get deeper and deeper. Deeper, because there's so much clarity around that. And then, you know, in regards to these rules that we're trying to perfect, I think the more that we can do that and get to the inner core of who we are, like when we're living the life that we're here to live, we're perfecting that role like so easy when we're like one else and trying to do their role.

That's when it gets messy. Like the more on E with ourselves, the more easy life gets. It's just like, Hey, I'm here. That works for you. That's great.

Here's one for like, if we could all do that, what an incredible world this would be. Absolutely. Absolutely. Okay. We have to finish up on this because I said it in the beginning.

You're an avid book reader. Give us your favorite books because you've got some that that you have shined on me and I've gone and read enough like, oh, thank God, I've got Melissa to tell me about these books.

And there's so much we can learn from a book. I would love to. Like any event I go to, I want everyone's 50 favorite books. You said. Yeah. It'd be amazing. Yeah.

So there's a book I read. It was actually an audio book, 50 Best Self-help Classics. That was really good, like snippets from all these incredible books.

And it gave you kind of like a synopsis that's hands down. Then one of my favorite books I've ever read, I recently read Conversations with God trilogy, definitely one of the best books I've read in my life.

I've read that alongside with the artist. I love that. I love Michael Singer. Living Untethered. Amazing. A game changer for me. I'm really into self-help and they have to call it they've got to change the name.

It's literature like this is. What I love that. The life that you are here to live and here's your books to help guide you. So if I go to Barnes Noble, that's the section I'm going to go to.

And then just whatever speaks to me there. You know, I'm going to tell Reed Tracy, the CEO of of Hay House, because we've been talking about the women empowerment books.

That house is working to get out there. And I, too, have a little bit of a yucky feeling when I hear self-help books are books of now say that again. You said books of living of possibility.

Literature, literature of possibility. Amazing. That's going to be my I'm actually going to walk into a bookstore and be like, do you know where your literature of possibility is?

And see what see what they say. Yeah. And they can also say and many in my books are here and here and I'll do a book signing for you. That's right. That's right.

Yeah. Because my books are probably in self-help, so I could be like, Hey, I don't want this in self-help. I want this in literature of possibility. And I have to tell you, you know, I'm not saying this just because I'm an author, but I have such a deep appreciation for books because I can tell you as a content creator, when I put out a video, when I do a podcast interview there, you can't really take back the words that you said.

But when you sit and you write a book, one of my favorite ways to write is I just channel whatever comes through me for like 3 to 4 hours. And then I close the computer and I come back to it the next day.

And when I come back to it the next day, I ask myself, Do I really believe this? Is this really the truth of what I want to say? So when you read my books, they literally are the core of who I am.

And I think that is what we when I when I've heard you talk about conversations of God, the other one you talk you really enlightened me on was the bit the big magic is that.

Elizabeth Gilbert the big mama, author of Eat Pray Love. That was a really, really cool one. Amazing. And I think you're really seeing the heart of somebody.

And it's when we really see the heart of especially another woman that we actually can look at it like a mirror of our own reflection. And when we're on social media putting out content, it's easy to get caught up in the, Oh wow, look at what she's doing.

She's amazing. And we kind of project stuff. But actually, if you really want to know somebody read a book they've written because that's where their heart lives.

Yeah, there's that song. I always sing it like in a little bit of writing that I do so far. And it's and it's a singer and she's like, I feel like I'm naked in front of the crowd because these words are my out loud.

And then as a songwriter, as an author, that's how you feel like you're literally putting your vulnerability into this page and then putting it out into the world and having very little control, you know, explaining the conversation.

It's different than where we're sitting here, right? Yeah. Yeah. So are you for that. I applaud every author and creative person out there. I think it's such an inspirational act to do that.

Yeah. Which is why I want you to write a book, because I think your your heart and mind needs to get on paper because I think it would be transformative.

I just read a quote. So in my office I actually am putting words up that are like resonating with me. And some of them are phrases just to decide if I'm going include them in this new book.

And one of them was a statement I read from the Creative Act, which I again, you got to read so good. And he said when you're creating something and I'll put it in the terms of of readers, when you're creating this tangible thing, what you want to do is you want to create an energy in which the reader will see a reflection of themselves.

And I feel like we can say that with a comedian. We can say that with an author, we can say that with a podcast host. The goal is the more open we are, the more we allow others to see a reflection of themselves.

And that, to me is the true gift of being a content creator. Yeah, I think there's something really important in that because I think a lot of people that maybe have this desire to do these things, but they don't.

They're waiting until they've perfected. But what really want to see is the journey because it's so much more relatable. Yeah. Amazing. 1,000%. Yeah. It's Rick Rubin, right?

Rick Rubin, yeah. It's really interesting. And I think I actually think the world needs more creatives now. We've gotten way too linear, we've gotten way too boxy, like, this is good, this is bad.

And so I've been spending a lot of time just expanding my thoughts and questioning my thoughts like, do what, do what do I really believe about that? I've I've lived this one principle for so long, but is that do I really want to keep living that and these creative books The Artist Way The Big Magic, the, you know, creative act, what they're doing is helping me break out of paradigms that I didn't even know I had created in my own head.

And I think that's the power of creation. And that's one of the reasons I love you, because I watch you do that every single day and it's so flipping cool. So how do people find you?

Because you're podcast amazing. You're doing some really neat things, so let us know how we find you. Yeah, my mean website that has everything, the podcast, everything on there would be beinspiredmama.com so be inspired and then mama.com awesome beautiful.

Well, first I have to just say thank you for being such a sweet, dear friend to me. I just. I love. Love our connection. I feel seen. I feel like I expand in your presence.

And I just. I don't know, I'd do life without you. So thank you for that. And I really hope you take be inspired momma podcast to the highest level possible because I think women really need to hear your voice.

So thank you so much for everything you're doing. Thank you Mindy. I wish for all your listeners to have a friendship like we have, and I know that we've created it by just showing up completely real and vulnerable and we help each other grow or stretch friends.

And I think we all have the capability to find friendship like this. And we first have to be great. Yes, a thousand percent agree. So I love you. And again, I hope everybody listening that you find your inner badass is what I call her your inner badass through a conversation like this.

And you just let her fly because that's where you're going to find happiness. So thank you, Melissa. So happy you were here. Thanks, Mindy. Thank you, everybody.

Melissa Sonners, DC

Learn The Art Of Prioritizing Your Self-Love