#1 Habit That Transforms Sleep – Fix Your Sleep, Fix Your Life! l Melissa Urban l Ep #426

Introduction and sponsor messages 0:00

Hi, I'm Natalie Nidam, your host. Welcome back to the show, folks. Today we have Melissa Urban, who's best known for building a global movement around food. But what surprised her most over the last number of years? That sleep might be the real foundation of everything. Now in this episode we unpack how poor sleep hijacks your cravings, impacts insulin sensitivity and chips away at your long-term health in ways you don't feel until it's too late. Melissa shares her own wake-up calls from burnout to disrupted sleep cycles and the practical no BS habits that actually move the needle.

Now she also shares about a little technological innovation that has also really moved the needle for her. So make sure you stick around long enough to hear about that. Now if you've been optimizing everything except your sleep, this conversation might change your priorities fast and give you a very cool new tool to implement at the same time. Now, if you're feeling inspired at the end of the episode, you will find this link in the show notes. But if want to jot it down now, go to OsloSleep.com forward slash Nat and use code Nat to get $75 off your very own noise canceling earbuds.

Now, this episode is brought to you by Young Goose's Vampire Exosomes, BiOptimizer's Masszymes, and Timeline's Mitopure, each one of them with special offers just for you. Check out the show notes below for details and then enjoy the shows. Melissa Urban, welcome to the Show. It is such a pleasure to finally meet you, you're like a legend. Oh, that's so kind of you Natalie. I'm really enjoying talking to your already. I know, guys, it's been like five minutes and we're like, we got to hit the record button.

I feel so blessed to do what I do. It's just I get to talk to the coolest people on the planet. Really fun. And you know we are tackling a different, really a topic for you today. You know you're known, you are the guru of the Whole30 of helping people to make food better in a very accessible, simple way, which I think, I mean, talk about a superpower, right? But I actually think the first thing we should start with is this transition, and not even a transition. But you coming around to this place of, yeah, diet, but man, sleep.

And do you think it's because of your stage in life?

Why sleep matters more than diet 2:25

What kind of took you there? That's a great question. You know, my first book is called It Starts With Food. And I really do believe in many instances that food is foundational for health, mental health and physical health. The way we show up in our relationship with food, is the way show with other healthy habits. I feel like when we are at peace with eating food that we know makes us feel good or that feels right for us in that moment, that has benefits that spills over into every single area of your life.

And also, I will never be the one to tell you that all you need to do is change your diet or that diet is a cure all or a fix all. There are so many other factors that impact long term health. And as I was starting to, of course, expand beyond those factors, beyond just nutrition. Sleep is the one that came up more and more for me and also in the literature, even what I'm reading today, the impact that sleep or chronic lack of sleep has on big picture health, longevity and quality of life cannot be underestimated.

And in many cases, it's even more important than diet. So it is an area that I talk about often because of course, they're all interconnected. The way you sleep impacts your dietary habits. Well, and I think sleep physiologically impacts the impact of food. There are stats out there that show one bad night of sleep has a negative impact on your insulin sensitivity the next day. You essentially become insulin resistant. from poor sleep. And your cravings go up. For what? Oh, for carbs. Why? Because your brain, the energy pig, is like, I need energy and I know I can get it from those jelly beans right there.

even one or two nights of sleep deprivation, and we're talking about typically like under six hours of, sleep has an impact on blood sugar regulation, as you just mentioned. And then of course, if these results continue to pile up, adjust our risk for lifestyle related diseases and conditions go up. I mean, there's not a single body system that chronic lack of asleep does not have a negative impact. Yeah. And you just mentioned, I mean, these are non-negotiables, right? It's energy, it's mood, its metabolism, long-term brain health, like, the ability for the brain to clear, take out the trash at night is essentially sitting on your quality of sleep.

So what's the invisible cost of, all catch up on sleep later, that people only feel sometimes like decades down the line. Cause we get away with it when we're kids, when I used to say all the time, I hate sleep. I was the little kid that snuck around the house behind my grandmother when I supposed to be napping. Yeah. A lifetime of avoiding sleep, which I've gotten over. Thank God. Yes. You know, I think obviously through various stages of life, your need for sleep and your ability to sleep are seriously impacted, right?

I had a baby 13 years ago and now I know why sleep deprivation is used as a means of torture. Because it is literally torturous to be woken up that many times and have that kind of short sleep sessions. But over the course of time, I think it's kind like a credit card. You can charge and charge, and you don't really notice it, but then eventually the bill comes due and it all seems to fall apart very quickly. And there typically are signs that you may not be aware of. It's the prowling through the pantry, especially at night, it's not waking up early enough to go to the gym or do your healthy movement.

And then that has a negative impact on your physical health, your mental health through. The rest of the day, its irritability, resilience, willpower. So all of those things do start to cascade. And then of course, long term that can lead to these really serious health complications that are happening under the hood that you may not be aware of until you go to your doctor five years later and do a fasting blood glucose and realize, oh my gosh, I'm pre-diabetic. Yeah, no, it's huge. I mean, the link between quality sleep and longevity is inextricable.

Yeah. And it is fascinating how much we fight it. You know, I think like, anyway, let's take it to the moment when you realized that your sleep wasn't just a little off. Like, I think you talk about how it might have been impacting relationships. I mean, you talked about choices, like ability to tolerate the load of your day kind of thing, bandwidth. Huge. Yes. You know, i've had several periods of my life in which my sleep for a period of time was seriously disrupted, aside from having a baby, which is just a, you know, the sort of peak.

That's a rite of passage. It is. But, I was on book tour almost every single year for the better part of a decade where you would fly to one city, do these events, they would finish late at night, be super amped up. I either wouldn't have dinner or I would have to eat dinner really late after the event. So of course I'm not going to bed on time and then I am not sleeping as well because for me and for most people eating late is one of the biggest impact, negative impacts on sleep. And then I'd have a super early morning flight.

So it affects everything from cognition to mood. For me, it's cravings. I don't typically have craving and if my sleep is disrupted, the first thing I notice is all of a sudden I am just a cookie monster.

How poor sleep affects cravings and health 7:35

Can't get my hands on sugar fast enough. And so for me, that's one of the earliest kind of signs. Now I'm in menopause and that just a whole different ball game in terms of sleep disruptions and challenges and the things that are disrupting my sleep and a strategies that I have to take to try to combat them. It's different than it was when I was in my mid thirties. I suffered a concussion about eight years ago and it's a traumatic brain injury and your brain is not able to access and utilize fuel effectively.

And so that not only had a huge negative impact on my sleep, but it compounded all of the additional stressors that come when you are chronically underslept. So I've had plenty of these experiences where I have seen firsthand for myself the negative impacts of chronic lack of sleep. If you're using a sauna and you are not following a specific protocol around it, you ARE sweating, but you may not actually be supporting detoxification properly. And that's a problem, because the difference between a session that just makes you hot and one that genuinely moves the needle on your health comes down to a few key steps that most people are NOT putting into practice.

So I put together my complete sauna protocol, the exact pre, during and post-session routine I follow myself, and I'm giving it away completely free. Now, this is not a generic guide. This is what I actually do. So, of course, you always want to do what's best for your body. But if you want see what i do and to download it now for free, just head on over to natnidam.com forward slash sauna. That's n-a-t-n-i-d-e-m dot com forward-slash sauna and check it out for yourself. If you have a baby, there's a point where you kind of have to surrender to the process, do the best you can.

For the love of all that is holy, nap when your child naps. The laundry will get done, the kitchen will clean somehow. That's the only, that's best advice we can give to new parents, right? So much so, yes. And also I had to learn not to practice revenge procrastination when my kid got older, your entire, evening routine is focused on getting this child to bed. And there were years where the routine was just exhausting. I would get done and I think this is the only time I have to myself. So I'd want to stay up and watch Netflix and scroll on my phone and do these mindless things because I'm exhausted.

But I just feel like... You need something for you. Yes. Then I get to be late and then I wake up cranky and the cycle just perpetuates. so I had to learn to break that habit or desire as well. That's a really good shout because that really happens. I remember catching myself watching a show while reading and scrolling and maybe doing something at the same time, trying to cram it all in, right? Yes. Okay. So you've written that sleep buds save your marriage. What was the real problem under the drama?

Was it noise, resentment, hypervigilance, all the above? Like, yes, Yes, so, okay. One of the reasons I married my husband is because he doesn't snore. He's never snored. God love him. And I don't either according to him and according To all my wearables, he Doesn't Snore, Okay. But he had a respiratory infection that just took forever to clear. It was a really nasty one. And he started snoring as a result. At the same time, my dog, who's a poodle, he's six years old, also started snowing. His snow and my husband's snow were just competing with each other.

Oh my God. everything. I had white noise machines, I tried those silicone earplugs, we tried nasal strips for my husband, you got a humidifier, there's nothing I have not tried in order to sort of block that noise out to get a good night's sleep. And it got to the point where I was waking up and a half at two in the morning, twice a week to go downstairs to their guest room, and I would be so mad at him and it's not his fault. So I just Yeah, yes. Right. Like he would wake up, he'd be like, did you have to yes and they feel so bad yes of course he does but he can't help it yeah so i came across an ad for these sleep buds and i had already ordered fancy earbuds from sweden i think it was with this ergonomic design they didn't do anything so I thought okay you know what I'm gonna try it they have a money back guarantee That first night, I got the best sleep of my life.

And I woke up a new person. My husband was like, did I snore last night? I'm like I don't know. I couldn't tell you. Maybe. Don't care. So I bought these with my own money. No connection to the company. Wrote a huge article about it in my newsletter. I was like this, these things are lifesavers. They're easy to use. I get the white noise just directly into my brain. It's the same pink noise that I WAS used to falling asleep with, so there was no kind of getting used-to period. And it's, I've recommended them now for probably, i've been using them for eight or nine months.

They block out New Year's Eve fireworks. They blocked out dogs barking. I bring them on trips for busy New York City hotels.

Personal sleep disruptions and burnout 12:40

These things are, they're magical. We'll never stop talking about them because of the incredible impact they've had on me and the people I've recommended them to. Yeah. It's really interesting. We're going to get deeper into these earbuds in a minute because it's an interesting thing that you said. Like, it is not just the blocking of the noise. No. Right. Because truthfully, I have silicone earbuds that will block out noise, but the results? are different. It's because of the way these things work that I think that it's doing a bigger job.

Because what I don't think we realize is it is not that the noise is noise. The noise keeps our nervous system alert. Yes, yes, very much so. And it's, you know, You could fall asleep to an audio book or you could follow sleep to a podcast if you wanted to. But that's never worked well for me, the change in volume and tone and expression. It's just too stimulating. These noises that get beamed into my brain are set to very specific frequency and they're calming frequencies. Some frequencies are energizing.

Blue noise, that's when you want to work, you wanna get excited, get amped up. But if you're gonna relax and go to sleep and kind of slip into those alpha waves, You want pink noise? You wanna brown noise. Maybe white noise and they have all of these different sort of varieties. So not only is it calming for your nervous system from that kind of energetic actual frequency perspective, but what I've also discovered is that it is Pavlovian. I put that pink noise into my brain and my. Brain now knows it's time to sleep.

And I'm talking, it happens within three minutes. The earbuds go in and. My brain is like the queue for this is sleep time. Don't put them in while I read, I don't. Put them. In while. Do other things. It's only when I. Ready to go to. Sleep. And it's like I said, it just works magically. You know, It's interesting because for me, I find if I put them in as I'm getting ready for bed, like in the like the 10 to 15 minutes, you know I mean the bathroom, washing my face, taking off my makeup, whatever.

There seems to be like a really, really for me, and this is personal, right? Like, it's going to different for every person. But for, me it just seems, to prepare me and it it, kind of like an on ramp for sleep. Like it. It's a very, anyway, we're, going down the path of the sleep buds faster than I wanted to, but it is, so it so interesting. Cause I remember when I first heard about them, I was like, no. No, no, it's just more noise, right? Because I've never been a white noise person or any of that stuff, and yet...

I've had a really interesting experience. And it's so interesting that you had such a big experience, but let's talk also a little bit about the sleep consistency. Oh yeah. It's linked to resilience. Then this is a bigger one. Immune function. Yes. You stress tolerance. I mean, you mentioned being cranky earlier and even recovery as we age, like all of these things, as were, we talk about longevity, it is about health span. What we need to do is avoid disease and at the foundation of that is going to be sleep and food.

Yeah, very much so. 100%. One of the sleep kind of metrics that I don't think enough people think about or even know about, because I didn't until a few years ago, is sleep consistency. A consistent bedtime and a consistent wake time. That is so much more important for your quality of sleep over the long term than many other factors. Sure, you want to avoid eating before you bed. You want avoid screens before bed, You you your bedroom to be cool. of those tips, right? Those are the ones that you hear all the time because they're effective.

They work. But going to bed around the same time every night and waking up. So it's not, I wake at different times during the week in the weekend, or it is not I go to about 10 PM during a week, but I'm up till 2 AM on the weekends. I really maintain my window per my wearables is about 30 minutes. I go to sleep and wake up and everything I've read has said that that has an enormous impact and that's like one of the first things you could do if you're looking to improve the quality of your sleep is start to experience that very consistent sleep-and-wake cycle.

Yeah. Well, and it's getting away from the sleeping in on the weekend, staying up extra late. And I mean, good luck to either of us convincing a teenager or somebody in their 20s. It's not going to happen. I guess it is part of our natural aging process or something. But definitely as you get older, when you experience it, You start to feel the difference. And does it mean we never go out and stay out? Look, there's an exception to every rule. But if you're pretty consistent 90 to 95% of the time, I think to your point, you are physiologically going to benefit from it.

So what do you think? So here's the interesting one. When we're talking about chronic light sleep, So these are people who have their eyes closed. They're technically sleeping, but they're kind of skimming the surface, right? So what do you think is the most underrated aging consequence of that? Like, is it metabolic drift, emotional reactivity, or do think it's cognitive wear and tear maybe? I mean, I think it obviously affects everything, right? We know that it has a serious impact on everything.

And that's the kind of sleep you see with people who use sleep aids very often, whether it's prescription or over the counter is, yes, they're in bed with their eyes closed, but their sleep quality, that deep sleep and that REM sleep that so important, we're not getting that. Of course, in the short term, it is cognitive function. You're hearing a lot about brain fog. I just feel like I have brain fog or I don't have the capacity to focus its irritability It is, you know resilience obviously willpower and that leads to of course changes in dietary habits or Exercise habits, or the way you talk to your boss or your teammates at work So you're feeling the impact of that

Sleep buds and noise masking vs canceling 18:35

light sleep pretty quickly. But as with any other Sleep dysfunction over time that lack of REM and deep sleep, which is where the brain and the body do a lot of cleanup Yeah, that's gonna be felt you're gonna miss that that really important cycle. Yeah I love that you just said that I think that very often people mistake sleep as a shutdown time Oh, no, and actually it's probably the most active that your body is and maybe you want to dive into that a little bit because that is where the whole longevity piece comes in that You're not building muscle in the gym.

You are building muscles while you are sleeping. Yes This whole concept. It's recovery. This is where your brain kind of goes through and kind caches memories and sort of helps you to, I guess, clean out some of the, don't know the technical terms for it. Well, the lymphatic system becomes active, right? Lymphatic System. Yep. There's obviously a huge amount of digestion that's happening overnight. So you want to allow your body the space and the time to kind get to that rest and digest system. there's just a lot happening underneath the hood.

The repair crews are out. Yes, correct. I think the way to look at it is the nighttime crews. As a matter of fact, if we look a traditional Chinese medicine, they have a clock and they associate different times of night with different organs. And so I can't remember if it's 2 a.m. or 3 a,m., if somebody's waking up at 2a. m. and 3a, m., I forget exactly what time it, that's associated with liver. And they'll say this is when the liver is doing its work of rejuvenation and cleaning out like a little bit about what you're talking about.

What we don't want is to have a bunch of food in the stomach that we have to digest because that maintenance work doesn't get done. So anyway, so I just think it's really interesting when you look at some of these older systems, like whether it is traditional Chinese or Ayurvedic, and they speak to these things a lot more than we typically. I mean, I think we're getting there, but these guys have known about this stuff. on time. They have. It's a hard message to sell. People are somewhat resistant to it.

I think in large part, just due to capitalism. When I was starting my business, it was hustle 24-7, I'll sleep when I'm dead, and I am working while you're sleeping. Sleep has been labeled as this lazy activity. And it's almost a moral failure if you are getting eight hours of sleep a night. That conversation is changing. But I'm not sure it's changing fast enough, or I am not again sure that people are kind of grasping all of the body functions that are happening during that really important time.

Yeah, I think that's so important. And I mean, listen, within the community, there'll be people listening to this podcast going like you're preaching to the converted, but I still think to your point, a lot of people and people who don't necessarily realize it and where I m starting to see it more is in the autoimmune community and giving more respect to sleep, For proper immune function, like you have an immune dysregulation and you're not sleeping. You're going. I mean, look, it's not going to just because you sleep and isn't going fix everything.

Yeah. But if you are not, sleeping, you know, not gonna be able to is going be a lot harder to rebalance. Oh, I mean, the amount of chronic stress that you're under with chronic lack of sleep and that impacts your immune system. It leads to an increase in inflammatory markers, susceptibility to infections. And if you already have a chronically overactive immune systems, you are just digging yourself further into the hole. You mentioned menopause and perimenopaus earlier. I think taking care of the hormones is a piece of a puzzle as well, right?

It definitely is. I've done a lot of research in this because I am now in that phase. And I haven't had a lots of super negative symptoms, thank goodness, but sleep disruptions have been one of them. You know, some of the studies I've read show that not only sleep quality, but also quantity decreases. You're sleeping less and your sleep. Quality is less. And it can happen through a number of reasons. It's of course, decreasing estrogen and progesterone, But it's hot flashes. you have an increased risk of sleep apnea.

Sometimes it is chronic joint pain like that frozen shoulder can make sleeping really uncomfortable. mood changes. So all of these things are kind of compounding and they're impacting you throughout the day, but they are also impacting your sleep. Yeah. And I think what's important to say here is Ladies, if this is you, you owe it to yourself to also meet with a doctor and talk about your hormones and how you can be supported in balancing those. I'm a personal fan of BHRT. May or may not be right for you.

There's other ways to... I don't know that there's really another way to really give the benefits of bioidentical hormone replacement. for protecting the brain and the bones and all the things. But you, at the very least, need to get the support for the sleep. Because if you can't get to sleep together, then everything else is really going to follow. So when people tell you or say, you know, I'm sleeping, but I just don't feel refreshed in the morning. What are the first two to three suspects you think about?

Is it environment, timing? Like waking up habits, I mean, maybe breathing dysfunction. You talked about your husband a minute, a little while ago. Those are obviously culprits. And if there is, you know, kind of the first thing I'll say is if you do have a pattern of snoring or waking-up feeling like you haven't been breathing, obviously getting evaluated for some sort of sleep disturbance is top of. mind. Outside of that, though, I think diet and eating too close to bed has a huge impact. Alcohol cannot be ignored.

In the wearable communities that I visit, alcohol is constantly cited via the data as the number one factor for having a negative impact on sleep. So diet, eating, too late eating a heavy meal too, late snacking right before bed. Yeah. Definitely alcohol, certainly environment, like there are some small fixes that I'm sure your audience is already familiar with, but making your bedroom colder, opening the door, especially in winter and letting some fresh air in blocking out all lights, you know, the light blocking curtains are huge.

So there some things environment is certainly one of those. And then I'll also say your pre bed habits, I know you said your audience is well versed in this stuff, and so am I, but every time I hear someone on a podcast say, put your phone away at least an hour before bed, I think to myself, dang it, have I been doing that? Well, you know, we know it intellectually, Of course. And it's hard not to, but not only do you have the impact of blue light right before bed, which is disrupting for sleep, no good comps from checking Twitter or your email one last time before you go to bed.

No good comes from being kind of sucked into an algorithm that you know is designed to outrage you or anger you, or incense you and suck you in. For me, I would talk about what, you know, what are you doing before bed? What time are going to bed.

Sleep consistency and aging 25:45

I mean, sometimes it's as easy as like you just got to go to better earlier. And even if you're just reading in bed for that half hour, or you don't fall asleep right away, that is still a far more relaxing and calming behavior than whatever it is you are doing on the couch or with your phone. A hundred percent. And I would say, because people can now read on their phone, they can have their books on the phone either by a Kindle or go old school and get a book. I'm a huge proponent of this because the temptation on your phone.

You're going to get. Or you know that Instagram's right there and you're like, Ooh, let's go see if anybody liked my post. Yeah. Like that little, that. It's like the little devil over here is there's the, we need a snack. I started bricking my phone at 7.30. Maybe six months ago or so, we kind of set a family rule, no phones after 7 30 for all of us. And so I put screen time controls on and I blocked shopping and work apps and social media apps in the internet. The only thing I can access are podcasts and audio books and music.

Those are things I don't mind listening to at night. And the number of times I would reach for my phone in that first week, I mean, a hundred times a night, i would pick it up and go, Oh, not supposed to do that. Pick it and say, oh, can't use Amazon right now. It's like, it was shocking to me and it's a hard habit to break. And it also really easy just to turn it off. So I try, try not to. It's pretty sexy. I know. Listen, my son put an app on my phone, I think it's called something Zen, maybe Zen screen or something.

And he gave me a lot of time per day for Instagram. Then I chopped it up into six, 10 minutes. chunks, but I get to the end of the 10 minutes, I'd be in the middle of doing something and be like, no, anyway, we're digressing right now. But ultimately, the other thing that's really important, just to finish with the phone thing, is that it's also mental stimulation. It engages your brain and what we are trying to do is disengage our brain. And I will say, going back to The Sleep Buds, what I'm really impressed with is the effect on the nervous system.

And that, there's no noise blocking plug. I mean, maybe because it's blocking the noise, but there is an interaction with these soundscapes that really absolutely has a different effect. So we're going to get into that in a second. But if somebody is not sleeping, how does it show? I've talked about how it shows up, some of the things like the appetite shifts. Maybe you're relying on caffeine too much. maybe you're more reactive than you used to be. These are the things I think we all need to looking for, right?

Because I do think that they're the signs that we might be like, well, I'm just cranky, or whatever, but it's always going to go back to that sleep. How do we separate hormonal Sleep disruption from the lifestyle sleep disruption without spiraling into beating ourselves up. I know It definitely can be challenging to know did I have a bad night's sleep because of something I ate is it my Hormonal changes is that that I can't get my brain to turn off is because I was on the phone I will say one of the things I've personally noticed and that my doctor has talked with me about is estrogen levels and are so closely and directly correlated to hot flashes.

And I know because I am on estrogen therapy and it's been a lifesaver, but when my estrogen levels are off either too high or too low, that's when some of these symptoms start coming up and I don't have them during other times. So for me, it kind of like, okay, well, I this is what's happening right now. I think one of the best things you can do is just some self experimentation. So if you've got a couple of these factors, you know, I don't know if it was the alcohol I drank or the XYZ, whether it's through a wearable or whether It's just something that you choose to conduct an experiment, spend a week and make sure that all your screens go off an hour before bed and see what happens.

And if that has a huge impact, then it's like, wow, okay, incredible. Then you can start to stack on top of that. If I take magnesium before bed or some other supplement, does that have an impact? And, if it is negligible, you could move on to another factor. some of this is just going to be self-experimentation. And some it is outside of your control. If you've got a fire alarm going off in your hotel or the dog's barking or you have a baby, there's not much you can do about that. For the things that are in control, I've discovered that experimentation and also really checking my data and being tied into the data that my wearable is giving me every morning has been really telling for the factors that the most positive and negative for me for sleep.

You know, ladies, if you're in your even early forties, check with your doctor and have your hormone levels checked because it can, those, little shifts in hormones can start really early. And sometimes, you know maybe a little pedestrian is what you need or it just depends, right? But you, not going to be able to, and those shifts are going be very hard to counter without these strategies. So what's one thing you wish that every woman knew about sleep in midlife that would save her years of trial and error?

Oh, I mean, my number one tip and I preach this all the time is go to bed earlier and it's not sexy. And I know that you might be missing out on some of the you time that have at night, but even an extra half hour of sleep brings so much to every other area of your life. If you can start to get into the habit of going to that earlier, and maybe creating a little bit of a wind down routine,

Sleep, recovery, and immune health 31:25

I think that's just, it's the easiest and the most accessible way for you to just eat. Well, even if it was just a little more time in bed, like I said, you're reading a book or you are listening to your white noise, whatever that looks like. I started going to bed toddler early, probably when my kid was five, at least once a week. And now it is like eight o'clock and my husband and I are starting our wind down routine. It is the best thing ever. You know, It can also be the thing if you have a partner for your intimacy.

Yeah. You have a better shot at even wanting intimacy with your partner. And it doesn't even have to be sex. It could be cuddling, like whatever it is, which by the way is really good for your sleep and your relationship. But it's actually even really for intimacy because you're not waiting until you are physically exhausted and stressed about going to bed before you go to. So anyway, there'd be that. Now we've talked about what it feels like what your cravings feel like when you've had bad sleep, but how does it feel when You've Had Good Sleep?

Things like portion control or snack urges or sweet craving, decision fatigue. For people who haven't experienced this, to feel this centeredness around, this is not my thing kind of thing. Yeah, I mean, again, a good night's sleep has a positive impact on every single area of your life. You sleep well. I wake up at 6 a.m. without an alarm. Am energized. am ready to go to the gym because healthy movement in the morning for me is something that's really grounding and it's part of my morning routine.

Have plenty of time to get to gym. have a workout because I feel rested. Feel energized, get home, make a breakfast. Don't need to prop up my energy with caffeine. craving sugary things, I feel really centered and grounded. My willpower is strong, my patience is high. So as I'm getting my kid ready to go to school, feel like I've just got more capacity for that. I head into work feeling clear and focused with steady energy. It just, all of that just continues. Yeah. There's no area of your life that would not benefit from you being more well rested.

Yeah. And I think, you know, if you're the kind of person who, for all the good reasons we know has kind been pushing the envelope for a long time, just do an experiment, do it for, give yourself the gift of, okay, For the next five days, I'm going to do this. See how it works. It's kind of like giving up a food, right? I mean, as a nutritionist, I used to have these conversations with people. I'm like, look, the sourdough is going to be there. Yeah, it's going be in a week. And don't buy it now because you want a fresh loaf.

Just for five days, just to see how you will feel. Right? And if you have this crazy negotiations with the people, finally they concede, and very often on the other side, for this with sleep or for the bread or the dairy or whatever it was, they're like Oh, my God. I had no idea. Yes, I can't believe it. And, you know, coming from the whole 30 lady, this might not sound this, might make sense. But I will say black and white rules are often easier for the brain to follow when it comes to habit change and behavior change, because there is none of that negotiation.

There's none that I'm going to go to bed earlier or I am going watch less TV. Then immediately your brain is like, well, what's less? Less than much night, less than a weekend. Instead, if the rule for that week is I turn off all screens at eight p.m. And that's the rule you stick by. All of a sudden now you're sort of forced to find other ways to wind down at night or to manage your, I forgot to do this and that. You're journaling it out on pen and paper instead of getting it into an email. So those black and white rules, if you are going to experiment, think about what could I set that offers no negotiation and I know would serve me and let me just stick to it for a week or 10 days and see what happens.

Yeah, I love it. You know, you basically treat your brain like the toddler that it is because it will not stop negotiating. Yes. Listen, the brain wants what is easy and what it's rewarding. And that's just biology. That's human nature. Absolutely. All right. Let's dive into these sleep buds that we've kind of been dancing around this whole conversation. So a lot of people confuse noise canceling with noise masking. Yeah. How can you explain the difference in a way that is really going to align with people?

Yeah, and a lot of the earbuds that you might find at the gym have both of those settings. A lot headphones have noise canceling and noise sort of masking or sort diluting. And so what you'll find with a noise masking is that some outside noise still comes in. That can be helpful if you're running or trail running, or doing something where you don't necessarily want to hear nothing. Whereas noise cancelling, really based on the fit of a the bud itself and the way it's centered in your ear, does its best just mechanically to block out as much outside noise as possible.

And then when you add the noise coming through the headphones, it really does limit your awareness of anything else happening around you. Now you can somewhat mitigate noise canceling by making the volume in your ear lower because the physical mechanism of noise blocking isn't 100%. It's not complete. So you do have some control there. But for me at night, because I am relatively aware of sounds and things happening, I really wanted noise cancelling sleep outs. Yeah, 100%. But it's a little bit like, like if you're making yourself a shake, and you start putting all kinds of functional things into it, right?

You add in your collagen, you put in the creatine, Then to me, the noise masking, cancelling conversation is what is the sound that's being delivered? Because I think what we're going to talk about with these sleep buds is I have noise-canceling headphones that cancel noise without producing any noise

Hormones, menopause, and sleep disruption 37:15

that I can hear. But in this case, there are soundscapes that are being delivered that were designed very specifically to elicit a response from your nervous system that leads to the better sleep. Yes. And that's really the magic of them. My gym headphones deliver music or audiobooks into my head very nicely, but they are nowhere near comfortable enough to sleep in. They're not designed for that. sleep earplugs block noise somewhat effectively, but they don't stream any noise. And so ideally, I think you want the best of both worlds.

You want that noise canceling effect, and you wanna be able to, of course, adjust the sound that's coming in, the volume it's But again, some of these sounds as we've talked about are specifically designed to calm your nervous system and to relax your brain and help you ease into those alpha and then theta waves. So I think the combination of both is what is really impactful. It's the magic. And so this brings us to, so Oslo, Oslow Seabeds, which is where we're talking about, can actually stream audio.

You can listen to an audio book or a meditation or breath work track or whatever it is. But then once you fall asleep, they sense that. and they switch over to the Soundscape. And to me, that's the magic, right? So let's talk about why that feature is so critical to why these things are so magical. Yeah. They're so incredibly customizable. All of this is done in the app and there's no subscription for the App. It just comes with the bugs. Which is amazing, by the way, because most people will expect to have to pay a subscription.

I know. That's where all brands are going, it feels like. So myself as an example, I really like listening to audiobooks or podcasts, things that are soothing. I won't listen to non-fiction books at night because I get my brain going too much, but I like to listening that. But if I fall asleep to that, it will wake me up. It's a pause that's unexpected. Its a volume change that unexpected, its an ad that I didn't expect. So being able to transition into a steady, consistent, soothing sound, as I fall asleep is lovely because I can fall sleep to an audio book, but I won't stay asleep to it.

So that's really where the kind of genius of the transitions come in here. Well, exactly. Because I think that the silence could wake you up if you think about it, right? Oh, it does. If let's say it just stopped. It definitely does, yes. Right. And so you will, so one thing is you'll have to turn on your phone to turned on the earbuds. Definitely get that red screen thing before Yeah. Before you turn off your, before you turned off the phone, because just to engage, but I think what's important for people to understand is your phone does not need to be on for all of these transitions to happen.

Because there's this, all the tracks are embedded in hardware in those itty bitty little, it's hilarious how small these things are and the amount of information that's in there. Yeah. And if you and you don't have to stream anything, that's the really nice thing is that for people who are nervous about maybe having Bluetooth going through or EMF. First of all, it uses this BLE, which is Bluetooth Low Energy, Which is much less impactful than a normal Bluetooth. But also, if You choose not to Stream, I'm just listening to the built in sound.

Number one, the battery life is longer. So I can get a good nine and a half hours out of these babies if I get really good night's sleep. But two, there's no connection to your phone whatsoever and you don't have to touch your phones at all for them to connect. You just open the case, you wait for then to light up and then boom, your noise is playing. So that's an even lower touch way. Your phone doesn't even have be right next to you. It can be across the room. Okay, I don't even think I knew that.

I thought my phone had to be on. Like, so you just open the case and put them in and they automatically go without talking to your phone? Yes, you have to wait until both of the lights for the earbuds are solid. So they'll blink one at a time and then when they're connected, they are so solid, but I haven't touched my iPhone or the Oslo app in months. Yeah. It's nice. Learn something every day. Here I am. So that's the beauty, right? And so they have this biometric sensing. And now it's giving you a bit of a sleep report in the morning.

Did you notice that? Yeah, yeah. Which is really cool. I mean, look, I get my sleep reported for my aura. There are people who wear a whoop, whatever it is. But it hasn't been around for that long, but I'm looking forward to the long-term information that I That can be a really gratifying way to take something that's typically intangible and make it tangible. It's nice to think, well, I feel more well rested. But if you're looking at your stats and you were like, wow, my deep sleep is significantly higher this week than last week.

That's so incredibly motivating. Yeah. And what did I do? Yeah, yeah. Now let's talk about comfort because a lot of people are like, well, I sleep on my side. There's no way. And I asleep on. Yeah, me too. I'm telling you there's a way and there was a time before I had these that I was so desperate to block out the noise that did wear my noise canceling headphones to bed because my darling husband does snore. But I am a side sleeper and so let us talk comfort. Because I think these guys totally knocked it out of the park on design.

I'm a side sleeper, too. I would say the first couple nights, I'd wake up in the middle of the night and think, what's in my ear? And it's not that it was uncomfortable. It's that you're not used to falling asleep with something in your ear.

Lifestyle factors that improve sleep 42:35

That doesn't happen at all anymore. They're incredibly comfortable. Of course, they come with different size ear tips. So you can almost everyone I've talked to can find a size that works. But I have also fallen asleep with my gym headphones in out of desperation. And the problem is when you lie your head down, when we lay your hand down it triggers the button so it'll change the song or it will stop the music. I'm like this defeats the purpose altogether. So the fact that they sit very flat in your ear and like you said they're so tiny is I think what makes them a winner.

Yeah. And I'll tell you guys that I'm a very tough fit on ears. The only earbuds I can use are, I use the wired Apple ones. They're literally the only ones that fit into my ears and so I was like, yeah, no way these things are going to fit and they did. So there's something about the design that makes them very adaptable. And I think you just shared, like, I was going to ask you to someone who's not a tech person, what's your simplest setup recommendation that feels so effortless. And you've just described it.

Like you literally don't even need to engage with the app. You just open the case and pull the earbuds out and you'll have, they'll basically set it up that they start doing their thing as soon as you take them out. So that works like magic. Spend a little bit of time in the app when you first get them because they have a ton of in-bud sounds. Yes. Green sounds and ocean sounds, and you know, there's a, I think a dishwasher sound, which I thing is so fascinating and actually really like, no, but it's cool because it is rhythmic and it has very low pitch.

But some people might like I find rain incredibly disturbing. That's not the sound I want to listen to for some reason. But or like they have a jungle sound. that's also not for me. but go ahead and load a couple sounds. You can play around with which one feels the best or works the. Best but once my recommendation is once you find a sound stick with it because then you start to develop as you and I talked about that Pavlovian response where it's like you hear that sound and the only time you. Hear that sounds when you're getting ready for bed.

And it just triggers this sensation in your body and brain and nervous system. Like, okay, now it's time to wind up. Yeah. And its safety because it is familiar. The brain believes what's familiar is safe and safety is the number one thing that we really need when we're going to sleep. Oh yeah. That's such a good point. All right. So when you think about sleep supplements, what is your decision filter? Symptom matching, timing, cycling, less is more. What have you found with that? I'm definitely a less is more person because the world of supplementation in general is so both unregulated and confusing.

It's full of promises that I think are really difficult to meet. You have to be careful with some of the supplements that you take. So a few general sort of go tos are some form of magnesium that tends to work pretty well for most people. And most People tend to be magnesium deficient based on just their diets. There are a few different forms of Magnesium. So you can pick a form magnesium bisglycinate is the one that is most often recommended for sleep. But I've also sent people to a really inexpensive magnesium citrate.

And as long as you're not taking too much because it can have a laxative effect, that can be a really cost effective and easy way to see if magnesium supplementation can. Be helpful. You could also do a magnesium L3 innate, which is supposed to cross the brain barrier and maybe might help with cognition and focus. But magnesium is a pretty safe one. It's accessible. And it's kind of hard to overdo if you're taking it in normal amounts. I've also had good success with some CBD plus hemp derived THC gummies.

So these are to be super clear. These are like at a micro dose that the 2018 farm bill says are perfectly legal. It's less than like 0.03% THD by weight. This is not anything that's going to impact your it's not going to get you high. But the combination of CBD plus this ingredient, there's one brand in particular that I really like. And I have found after trying two or three brands, this brand makes a difference in my relaxation before bed. So that's something I'm sticking with. Of course, your mileage may vary.

I very much caution people, I am not convinced on long-term melatonin use as being safe. The science kind of, i've heard both sides and i'm not as educated enough, to make a definitive, but I think occasionally it's probably fine in low doses, one to two grams. I'm leery about that, especially for kids. You know what's interesting about melatonin is I've been using an herbatonin. So this is a melotonin that's derived from plants. Yeah. And it's dosed for sleep. I take 0.6 milligrams. Now I will say that I'm a slow metabolizer of caffeine and therefore melatonin.

So if I took too much melotonin, you don't want to be around me in the morning. It's a sad state of affairs. That form of meletonin is fascinating. You know who just speaks about it? You probably know her as Dr. Deanna Minnick. Oh, no. Yeah. And it acts completely differently than the synthetic melatonins. That tiny amount is exponentially more powerful than this synthetic Melatonin that most people are taking. The reason for that is because that melotonin, because it's from plants, it is accompanied and this is going to resonate for you.

Using sleep buds and supplements effectively 47:45

It's like getting a whole food form of melotonin. So it accompanied by other compounds that assist. So it's, you know, and I hear you on the melatonin, like I'm a big fan of melotonin because I think we make less of it as we age. And everything that you just said about the glycinate and the theanine, one thing I found with supplementation for sleep is it is going to depend on, it so individual because it depends where your gaps are. Yes, exactly. You know GABA and Tulsi or There's Magnolia Bark is another one that people use.

Oh, 5-HTP is often recommended too for sleep as a sleep problem. But number one, I do not respond well to GABA at all. It actually energizes me. My brain does not do well with it. So like that's where the year mileage may vary. A 5 HTP, you have to be careful with that. That's a precursor for serotonin. Especially if you're taking over the counter medications or prescription SSRIs, That can lead to like a surge of serotonin, which is really problematic. So there are a lot of things that I think people kind of toss around for sleep, but you really do have to be careful with some of them and make sure that it's a good fit for you.

And then also make that you're studying it in the context of your other medications and supplements and lifestyle. Yeah. And again, if you're not one who wears a wearable and the sleep tracking of the Sleepbuds is going to help you here because you will be able to see. I would always give a supplement like about a week unless you have a negative response to it, obviously. But if either have no response or you are not sure, give it a good week to allow your body to kind of get with it. Get into the rhythm with All right, so let's talk about one high impact recommendation.

If you could give only one practical recommendation that improves sleep for the most number of people, not going to be everybody, but for highest number people. What would it be? I'm going to say alcohol because I honestly think that that will, I would say, alcohol, eliminating alcohol and, and before, before bed, certainly, but the less alcohol you drink, the better you're going sleep period. I think, that's just pretty standard for everybody. But I really do think the most impactful thing that I've personally done, aside from some of the other things we talked about, is just getting rid of screens.

I know it seems boring. You've heard it a million times. But the reason you hear it so often is because it has such a huge impact on your mental state, your nervous system, and your quality of sleep. So if there's just one thing, that would be the experiment I'd have you start with. Love it. All right. Quick fire around my friend. Okay. My new friend, yes. Most underrated sleep metrics, sleep time, wake time consistency, or how you feel at 2pm. I'm going to say waketime consistency. Love it. Without an alarm, obviously.

Ideally, yeah. Yeah. Best wind down habit you've tried that costs zero dollars. Reading a book before bed. Fiction. A real book or a Kindle that has very, very low to no blue light emission. I do it every single night before bedtime. Love that. One thing you will not do after 7 p.m. Definitely drink alcohol. Unless there's something really special going on, I don't eat because it has such an immediate and negative impact on how I sleep. Yeah. I love it. You're, if I'm traveling sleep, non-negotiable.

Oh, a hundred percent. My sleep buds, bring them with me everywhere. Sometimes I even bring a backup pair in case a pair dies. They're really, really that important to me. Blackout curtains, ideally, but I think the The biggest non-negotiable for me when I'm traveling is just try to get to bed as early as possible.

Top sleep advice and closing remarks 51:35

Yeah. You know what? I'll give you guys a little hack, like a bonus hack. I know I am not the guest, but there is a product out there called the Nod Pod. Have you heard of this? No. So I give them a shout because I love this so much. It's like little weighted blanket for your eyes. Oh, I love weighted blankets. And it even adapts to side sleepers. I'm not going to talk about it much, but you guys go look it up. They've gone viral recently. Last year sometime, it took me forever to use them with the earbuds.

You won't get me out of that. All right. Biggest myth about sleep you want retired? that you can catch up on sleep effectively. You can to some degree, naps definitely help. If you have a rough night getting to bed a little earlier, it's not that it does nothing, but it is not like you could be without sleep for two weeks in a row and then try to make it all up in the weekend. That's how it works. I love it. Listen, this has been amazing. You're the best. Oh, thank you so much for taking the time to join me.

Let's tell people where I mean, I've got a link in code here for the audience, but I'd love people to know where they can learn more about you and where do they learn? More about Oslo and yeah. Yeah, you can find everything for me at at Melissa you. So my website and blog is there. My Instagram is their, and that's probably the most active social media platform. So you, the letter or are you the one with the water? Yes. Okay. And guys, if you want, If you're feeling inspired to try out these beautiful sleep buds, you can go to Oslo sleep.com forward slash net.

and we have a special offer for you guys. You can use code net and get $75 off. Yeah. So I might have to get, I may not have get like a backup pair. I love the idea. I got them for my husband too, because he saw how much better I was sleeping with the dog. And he had a rough night and he was like, I need a pair of those earbuds. So I Got him a parent. He's like these are amazing. I'm like I know I've been telling you this. Thank you so much, Melissa. It's been so fun. Great chatting.