10 Healing Factors From Radical Remission Research

Introduction to Radical Remission 0:00

Hello, everybody. I am absolutely delighted to introduce you to an amazing human being that has picked up a baton and running. Far, far, far. Ahead with what she and her co-founder has to bring to the world in the space of empowering the patient, which is so critical to improvement of outcomes. So, Liz Curran, thank you so much for being here and for representing all of the Radical Remission people that you have supported along the way, and all of the Radical Remission people that are sure to come.

And so welcome, welcome, welcome. Thank you so much. I always love taking the opportunity to share the research that that's been done by Radical Remission Project. And, I love when it's new to people. So I hopefully this will reach, you know, some people who have heard it before and some people who've never heard it, heard it ever. I love it. And just to give context, because I, you know, in my in my world, you are a household name. Radical Remission Project is known every single person I teach in my from the clinicians and the patient advocates.

This is one of their required reading rates. Remission Radical. Healing are super, super important because people need to understand the powerful research behind this, which you're going to tell us a bit more about in a moment. The other side of it is you're very near and dear to me, because when folks are meeting a diagnosis, especially one that seems to have really grim prognosis, what happens is when you start to go down the rabbit holes of the internet or certain, Facebook forums. It is a world wrought with lack of hope and lack of of opportunity and potential.

And so what I always try and do is I try to frontload people to say, here's where you start your exploration of meeting those outliers, meeting the people who are not being the statistic. And so your resource is such a life raft for so many, and I would love for you to give the listeners again, there are many that probably know you or know of you and this organization that don't even know the history, which I think will be really powerful. And then there will be many more that are brand new to this.

And I hope that everyone runs out at very least gets reads or listens to Radical Remission. And then if you want to see it's sort of the next phase, read into Radical Hope. Radical Hope. Right. Okay, okay. Radical Hope. the second, addition. And then, Liz, I know you guys are always building on

Kelly Turner's Research Origins 2:51

even that structure, so give us a little background. Where did all of this begin? how did you come to it? Yeah, right. That's that too. Well, we'll get to that. I think the people probably want to know what this is first. And every time I even think about it, I still get the chills all these years later. Just telling the story of Dr. Kelly Turner. probably around the mid 2000 to get the exact year from her yet. she decided. So she was an oncology social worker at the time. She had gotten her undergrad at Harvard in screenwriting and then decided, you know, she was going to kind of pivot and go into oncology social work because cancer had touched her deeply throughout her life, and her loved ones.

So she decided to go into that work. And when she did, one day she heard about this spontaneous Remission. Shin Terayama, who's in the book and she was like, oh, what is this? What is this? What is this Spontaneous Remission. And she was fascinated, and she was sure he was the only one. And so she went home that night and she started looking into him and found that there were over a thousand, in medical journals. And then she got mad. She got mad that nobody was sharing this. And these people were healing without treatment.

So what was it that they were doing? So she said she went right back to Berkeley, where she got her masters and said, I want to get my PhD. I want to study, you know what Spontaneous Remission cancer patients did to heal? And they just said, well, if you can fund it, you can do it. So thankfully, American Cancer Society, you know, she got a grant from them and she traveled around the world for ten months and she, interviewed healers. And then through there, through the healers, met their patients and their clients and learned more about these, these, Radical Remission, as she later came to name them, because what she learned was there was nothing spontaneous at all.

I add a little side note for the listeners. Nasha is, all over our book, our, podcast, our workshop that we offer. So she herself is a Radical Remission survivor and rock star and, just, you know, also a household name in the Radical Remission world. So it goes both ways. so what did Kelly do? Is she interviewed people for ten months. She. She really dove in. Was all over the world. Every, like, nook and cranny, places that were really remote, places like London, you know, all over the place and interviewed people who healed.

And she she really just wanted to she didn't know what she was going to find out. And ultimately, what she found was looking at it through the eyes of a research process. There were over 70 things that kind of came up as factors, but ten that they all did. And so those ten healing factors are the foundation of the book Radical Remission. And what I love is that every chapter is a factor. So you can just open the book and look up one factor and read it independently, or read the whole book cover to cover.

So many people tell me they just carry it around because it's full of of hope and healing and the way that it's laid out very similarly to the workshop we offer, is that we talk about the main point, which I'll get to the factors in a minute. but the main point of the factors, how it came up in the research, she shares the science that's behind that, the independent research that has been done to vet those factors. And then a healing story where you kind of come into the mix and your story is, just so profound to so many people.

so what are those 10 Healing Factors? Right. Well, and even before you go into the ten factors, I would love because you like me, we kind of fell in love with Kelly and all the work that she's done stumbled upon her work. None of us kind of got here by accident. It's not like we said. Well, this looks like an interesting read. You had your own personal journey that brought you into exploring a different mindset, exploring a different narrative. Can you give a little bit about that and then maybe move into what defines what qualifies someone as a Radical Remission survivor?

Liz Curran's Personal Cancer Journey 7:00

Great point, great point. Yes. So I, back in 2014, which was the year that Radical Remission came out, I just didn't know about it at the time. my sister was diagnosed with inflammatory breast cancer, which is less than 1% of breast cancers. Her her specific diagnosis. And she was 48 years old. She was nine years older than me. We were extremely connected to each other, and she was diagnosed in this in January and passed in December. It was just like a, cancer journey, you know, very typical. She did the, you know, the chemo, the mastectomy, the radiation.

And on the last day of her radiation, she her back hurt. So they popped her in for an MRI, and they found that the cancer had spread, and, and, she was, you know, kind of sent home. Much like these Radical Remission survivors were without any further treatment. And so, unfortunately, obviously, you know, she passed and that was a huge had a huge impact on my life. And I remember talking to a friend, you know, I'm, you know, in the middle of this grieving process, I'm talking to one of my best friends.

And I said, I just have to believe that there's another way, like, not just this, you know, maybe there's room for this, but I don't know what I what will I do if this happens to me? And about two years later, I always kind of say, that was like just a prayer. I just said I didn't know if I was ever going to get an answer. And a friend of mine was diagnosed with, thymus gland tumor or a tumor the size of her fist on her heart. And she ended up not having chemo as an option for her because they said, you know, you're 35 and we're only going to buy you a year.

So she then went and went into Mexico and did some alternative and integrative things. And within six months she was in remission. And it was so incredibly powerful for me. It was the answer that I'd been looking for. She came home and told me all about the health coaches that they they worked with and all the different healing modalities, the diet change, the, you know, lots of different things that they did over where she was. And it was just it was just my world cracked open. She's like, there's this whole underground cancer community.

You have to hear about it. So I learned along with her and, and it was just it was, almost spiritual for me. It really was, because I had been grieving for, for a couple of years at that point. And I needed to know that there was hope. And she gave that to me. And through her I was given the book Radical Remission. because was a resource she was aware of. And I remember opening that book up and the first the looking at the table of contents and they all the factors were listed out. And I was like, this is what I did to heal for my grief.

And I wasn't even thinking about cancer at that point. I was like, wow, these are all the things. And I could literally check them off. So the power and the impact of that to me, always speaks to the mental health aspect of all of these factors. Oh my gosh, it gives me such goosebumps. And you're going to tell us these factors in a moment. But when when you know, because people do you hear these stories and I'm in the field as a clinician when I share a story of radical remission or spontaneous healing, most of the time the response I get from many people in the medical field is that's just an anecdotal.

That's just there's nothing to this. and, you know, or maybe they were just misdiagnosed. So I, as one of those people, have had that put on me over and over and over. Oh, you must have been misdiagnosed. Oh, this was just, you know, you're just really you were just outlier, like, it's like, how does it so weirdly dismiss, right. How is a person how do you qualify as one of these amazing survivors. Can you give us just like a a brief overview of what that looks like. And then we can dive into the factors that seem to be commonalities among them?

Absolutely, yes. So radical remission survivors fall into three categories okay. First one is someone who has been diagnosed with cancer and then does completely alternative path. They've never chosen a conventional path, but they found healing. And so that is category one. Category two is that there are people who have done all of the conventional things, like my sister and then went home on hospice

What Counts as a Radical Remission Survivor 11:24

or with no other treatment available, like my friend, and then found healing and you know, it wasn't it wasn't a I'm not I'm trying not to simplify it. But they found healing over time. they did not pass away from that diagnosis. And then the third category, which I believe was introduced a little bit later in the research process and more, much more so in the book radical Hope is someone who has taken in an integrative approach to their cancer diagnosis. But they had a 25% or less five year survival rate and still found healing and made it past that five year mark.

And then, you know, the beautiful thing about these stories, much like yours, is there's decades of health and life. And so we are often found as a resource for people who want to find hope. And they hold onto those stories as their inspiration to keep moving forward. So huge, so huge, so huge. And from my understanding on your resource, you know, now catalogs how many, of these people in your storytelling or retelling. I know, like you mentioned earlier, I'm one of them, but I'm one of many, many, many, many and many more than the thousand that were initially was what birthed the first book, Radical Remission.

Do you have a sense of how many are in your repository, your registry to to date? I think there's a lot more than even I know. I know the actual research that she did was done on up to 1500 cases. So the the books are around those two, you know, that thousand mark for I think for radical remission and then 1500 over that, that additional time. But, you know, there's so many people, even through the podcast that we now have where we interview people that aren't necessarily included in that, and they're out there.

And the work that we do, I'm, you know, I'm a radical remission health coach, which we can touch on, but the work that I do every single day, I'm finding more and more people that and witnessing them turn into radical remission survivors. So I just want people to hear that and know that they're everyday people. They're not, you know, authors or super wealthy. They're just everyday people who have, you know, they just have the drive to and let's let's dive into that first factor, empowerment, you know, that that empowerment factor and the way that it was listed in radical remission in the first book, it was called Taking Control of Your House.

she then later renamed it Empowering Yourself because she really wants to articulate the meaning behind the factor was that these people were active. They really wanted to take a role, you know, talk to their doctors, ask them questions, maybe decide to go a different path with their healing like you did. and they had to be brave. They had to be really brave. And that that takes empowerment. Does it does its huge impact on these ten. That's probably the hardest part, because there's a lot of well-meaning advisors out there, from your loved ones to clinicians to standard of care, to alternative care, to unlimited numbers of Facebook forums and, and, access in the social media sphere.

And so what happens is a lot of people can be looking outside of themselves for the answer. And this piece of of self-empowerment and taking charge is such a critical factor of these ten factors. So I love that you that that's where it starts. and then it's even been renamed because it does articulate it. I think much better. So perfect.

The Ten Healing Factors Overview 15:00

Tell us about I mean, in total, you were telling me before the recording that, you know, a lot of people think that to heal from this, it's very all the tangibles that it must be a particular treatment. In fact, the crazy part about this summit that everyone is listening to you right now is a lot of people are probably coming to learn about the thing. Okay. Was it hyperbaric oxygen? They did this? Is it a ketogenic diet? Is it but a dynamic therapy? Is it hydrogen water? Is it high dose IVC? Is it high dose melatonin?

You know people come expecting it to be a thing because I think our culture, our medical system is looking for that single target signal treatment. And so we're stuck in that mentality. But you and the radical Remission Project team talk about these ten factors. And only three of them are even considered these tangibles. So break it down further. You've covered one great big one. Yes. So we always say it's a multifaceted approach. There is no one thing. Kelly said when she did the research, she hoped she would go to some remote place and find a seed that everybody had tried or something.

but there was no one thing. And as we get to a great point to make, is there is no order of importance in these factors. Everybody will have a different path. Everybody will have something different that they need to work on. But they do fall into four categories. We have our three physical, we have two emotional, two spiritual, and then three. We call them mental. So I can break them out a little bit. I know we don't have a ton of time today, but I want to. Do. It right. Yeah. So we started out with empowerment.

So that in my mind is one of those mental factors. So empowerment is one. and before I go any further, just because I did touch on this with empowerment radical Remission Project is not against conventional medicine whatsoever. It's it's part of the it's just another modality that's out there. And these factors can be done in conjunction with that, or any type of treatment because all of these things are immune boosting and they're not necessarily we're not prescribing this as your answer to cancer.

it is a way for you to boost your immune system, improve your quality of life and your longevity. Yeah. So I just think it's important to say that out loud. the other two mental factors are finding strong reasons for living or living with a purpose. So having I like to call it your North Star, what is your guide that's going to motivate you when you're having those dark times to kind of keep moving, get another foot forward? get out of bed if you don't feel so great. For some people, it might be their kids.

Other people it might be a pet. It could be, they're one they're finishing a painting and they just want to go over and work on it for a little while or whatever that is. It doesn't matter what it is, it just matters that you have one. Yes. And the other mental factor is increasing social support, which is, I think there's so much science and evidence around it. So I just want people to know how valuable that is. And again, it doesn't matter if you have 50 friends to invite to your party, it's having people that really see, see you, understand you, you can be honest with, you can talk freely, and they really support you.

And not everybody's going to have a lot of that. It might just be one person. And in some cases we even say that could be your pets. Pets are coming up a lot right now. Is one is hiding behind me right now.

Mental and Physical Factors 18:30

Support me. Right? Yeah. Mine's home around the corner there again. And some of the science we present people with pets live longer, so it's, but it's that social support piece and allowing people when we talk about this factor, we allow people to receive, we want to encourage them to receive the support, not just, you know, everybody likes to help and feel helpful. And sometimes it's hard to ask for help or receive. If somebody is like, oh, I want to make you a meal. Oh, you don't have to do that.

Thanks anyway. And one of our clients once was like, I love when people ask me if they can make me a meal. And then I pull out my cookbook and I give them a recipe and I say, thanks, I want this. I love it. Yeah, talk about empowerment. Right? But also making somebody. Else feel needed and wanted and appreciated, as well as doing what's good for you to ask for what you need. Self-care. What a beauty is. Lots of points simultaneously. That little gesture, right? Yeah. And you know, going into let's go into the physical.

Changing your diet is one of our factors. And when people are changing their diet and someone wants to make them a meal, sometimes is the meal may not. You know, they want to like make you feel good. So they're bringing you a cake or cookies or all the things that you're trying to get out. And so giving them the recipe and knowing that that person will be able to make something for you, that you will eat and they know you're going to like it, and then maybe they'll try it too, and it might be a new recipe for them.

So radically changing your diet. For us, we keep it simple, because there's no one diet that has proven to be the key. all we say is and include vegetables on half your plate for every meal and snack. Fruits and vegetables. Exactly. It's like just this mindfulness about, you know, it probably if it's coming from a factory, probably not the best thing to have on your plate. you know, and like getting it as close to source and as local and seasonal and quality as possible that you can afford. You know, those are just kind of the fundamentals, like you said.

Beyond that, the variation, if you were always a junk food person, maybe it's time to clean that up. If you were always pretty strict of a certain dietary inclination, perhaps switch it over. It's it's about changing up the environment. So I really appreciate that. Yeah, yeah. And we just like to say it a little bit and with a rhyme of the radical remission survivors reduced or eliminated meat, wheat, sweets and dairy and they didn't not everybody got rid of all of it. And not everybody, you know, chose to eat a certain way.

So there was no one thing but reduce it. Moderation. Right. Moderation is the is the key there. So that's the diet factor. with radical hope, the radical remission only had nine factors. So with radical hope, she added a 10th factor. And that is exercise. And the reason that didn't come out in radical remission is because she was interviewing people who were very, very sick when they left their care or when they were diagnosed and found their alternative path. They weren't thinking about exercise.

So when radical remission came out and there was a lot of question, where's the where's the exercise? Where's the exercise? She went back into the research and found it was actually movement. It was micro movements. At first they were, you know, maybe they were bedridden. And then one day they were they were healthy enough to kind of just sit up, sitting up, you know, standing up, walking. She said they would walk around the dining room table just to get a little bit of movement. And, you know, it's going to look different for everybody.

But those micro movements are a starting point. And then eventually you can find whatever your version of exercise can be later. So, you know, again, you're showing this theme of there is no what one way exactly. I think that's really powerful. So we've got the mindset, we've got the sort of tangible, mental. Tell us about the, kind of the emotional and the absolute. Yeah, yeah. Yes. So there's one more that falls into physical and I'll just touch on that. Not taking herbs and supplements, but this is the one we say always needs to be done by a licensed practitioner.

Because again very specific to you. But those are the three physical diet exercise herbs and supplements. Then we want to go into the emotional ones which are releasing suppressed emotions and increasing positive emotions. So releasing suppressed emotions is kind of fun. I like that one because, well, first of all, it's the umbrella of all of all of the emotional stuff. It's it's stress, it's trauma. It's the difficult ones. But it's suppressed emotions, not negative emotions. So what that means is we want to make sure the body is not holding on to anything.

And that could be something even as simple as nostalgia, living and looking back at a time where you wish you were still there. It's taking you away from the present and you want to live here in the present moment, much to the point of mindfulness. so having those, emotions that are suppressed be released, so are releasing suppressed emotions factor. this is one that again, shows up in so many ways. We talk about meditation in this factor. We talk about therapy in this factor.

Emotional and Spiritual Factors 23:30

there's so many ways to access it. And I think it's just important. This is the one that comes up the most often in coaching where people say, yeah, that's the one that needs a little work. not to say that that's true for everyone. Some people have done a lot of work, but, but that one, is beautifully complemented with the other emotional factor of increasing positive emotions. And that one is, just such a powerful tool and something that we like to emphasize all of these factors, I said, as I said, are immune boosting, but they the way they do that is through our hormones in our brain, and they flood our bodies with what we like to call our happy hormones.

And, you know, more specifically oxytocin, serotonin, endorphins, dopamine, those kinds of hormones are released when you are in a positive, happy state. So we want to, you know, lower the cortisol with the releasing the suppressed emotions and, and get them out and then increase those happy hormones with our internal pharmacy by utilizing things that make us happy and help us find joy and increasing those positive emotions again, like everything else, looks very different for everyone. But some people really do struggle with it.

And I like to give the visualization of when you feel really happy, you just get this glow. You know, I think about like everybody's had a belly laugh at least once in their life, even think about little kids just seeing a little kid laugh, the point where they can't breathe and they're just cracking up and that, you get afterwards that side, it's the glow. Right? But then if you think about the suppressed emotions and you think about loneliness and sadness and feeling left to help you in the sad, you know, you can feel it in your body.

So I want people to try that on because I want them to see the power of that positive emotions can have on them physically. Huge, huge. And I my gosh, you spoke for so I love you have so many beautiful little, you know, metaphors and sayings. I love that sort of your internal pharmacy side of things. So folks who sometimes might think that this is very esoteric or energetic just even understand what what Liz just described to us here was when we are flooding our bodies with those positive or those, you know, those different emotions, it literally pulls levers of, as you mentioned, the immune system, but it will down regulate inflammatory markers.

it will, change particular growth factors. And suppressive growth factors are your suppressive factors as well. And so there is a ample, ample evidence of what, the feel good hormones can do, can accomplish in our physiology and our biochemistry. So I really love that you brought that up. Yes. Yeah, I I'm glad that you could give it a little bit of that sciency twist to for that sciencey, but a little bit more just because I really think I want to hit home how powerful these things are and how they are backed by science.

Because sometimes, you know, someone tells you that increasing your positive emotions is going to help you with your cancer diagnosis. You're in an all right, okay, you're right, but it's not like we're we're utilizing that or telling you that's what's going to be the curative. But it will help you. And the research there's been research done on people while they're in chemotherapy. And the positive, you know, they watch comedy during this, during this one study and after comedy after they watch the comedy and they have the the chemo treatment and then the control group didn't have the chemo or didn't have the they had the chemo, but not the the comedy.

Within four hours of the treatment, their biometric markers are all showing to be in the right direction the way you want them to go. So I have, one of my best friends is in the midst of, her first, a breast cancer diagnosis, and I went and hung out with her for her chemo treatment, and we popped on some Netflix comedy, and we just sat there and I was like, we're going to be here for three hours. We're going to get some laughs in there. So we took an air pod and we listened to the the comedy and she's like, that was my best treatment. Yeah.

She's like, I really think that was like a lot of fun. And you know, there's no reason it has to be, serious, I guess is is the best way to put it. Gorgeous, gorgeous, gorgeous and light and awesome. So we're down to two more. Yes. Our spiritual factors. Yes. So, you know, that's the term spiritual factors we have deepening your spiritual connection and following your intuition. And those two are really beautifully showcased in so many ways. But again, when we talk about deepening our spiritual connection, we're not we're not just religion, but we're not focusing on that one way of accessing it.

It's, you know, some people find it in nature. Some people will see it in, hearing a child's laugh in the distance, you know, just the, the connection of something greater than ourselves. And sometimes I like to give the visual of. Imagine that you're standing at the bottom of a ten story waterfall,

Programs, Coaching, and the Docuseries 28:30

and you just feel like a little person, right? You're you're standing on the edge on a rock, just looking up and and seeing the order of nature. Or it like standing at the edge of the Grand Canyon and looking down into this huge thing. You feel the grandeur of this earth and the nature that goes with it, and it just allows you to feel the connectedness of being here on this planet and you that you matter. Wow. Oh my gosh, this is so stunning. And you know, like I said, this book is no, I mean, how you just told me that we are coming into the ten year anniversary tree. Yes.

Yeah. Which blows my mind. So folks absolutely can access the book that came out in 2014. And see all the research that led to this project, that can then follow up with the book that came out a few, years later, The Radical Hope, and which follows some more updates of people and their experiences, which is just, again, so inspiring and hopeful, which I love. But because of this ten year sort of experiment in this field and the ongoing, research here, you have created and been part of the creation of several programs.

So yes, people can reach the book, but tell us more how they can engage with this really life altering and hope creating information. Absolutely. So after the book came out, people started asking Kelly Turner, well, okay, great. I want to learn how to implement this into my life. And she said, okay, well, I guess I'm going to create a workshop. So she started doing public workshops and people would come, you know, by in droves to hear her present this information. And in that workshop, we really do guide them through, you know, we talk about the factor, we talk about studies, we talk about healing stories.

And then we do an activity to really help people embody it into their life. And we send them home with what we call our game plan. And they have a one sheet that has a whole bunch of goals that come from the workshop. And they're able to implement that on their own, at their in their home, in their life, until they each become a lifestyle. So they're what we call lifestyle changes. And if they struggle with that or they just want some guidance, we do offer Health Coaches that are Radical Remission Health Coaches.

And these coaches are all people who have taken a vetted coaching program, or they're doctors, they're licensed practitioners, they're nurses, they're psychologists. You know, they're all kinds of all kinds of people become Radical Remission Health Coaches. But really, it's to help people learn how to guide themselves, to find their way into these factors until they become ingrained to just kind of everyday things. And it's beautiful when we get to see that. So in addition to that, Dr. Turner, as I mentioned, she got her her undergrad from Harvard in screenwriting, and her passion has always been to tell stories.

And so she wasn't planning to write Radical Remission again when she did the research, but she really wanted to make a visual depiction of that. So she has created the Radical Remission docu series, and that is ten different episodes. One of each of the factors with the deep dive of a couple of different people in that factor, and how they really showcased it in their healing. And I believe that's available on Hay House. It's accessible to everybody. And, such a really great product that she's put out.

You'll get to see that her talent and her skills and and her, her screenwriting and beyond career in that way. But that's how I actually came to be. One of the co-directors of the project was, Kelly said, one of the most impactful things when she was doing this research was she heard, you need to have your strong reason for living. And in her heart that has always been writing movies, right? And telling stories, I should say so. She has now kind of worked her way into that world, and she's she's getting some, some really great interest in some of her, her, you know, programs and, and stories that she's written and getting them into production.

And so while that's going on, my business partner Carla, she and I have connected with Kelly, almost a couple of years now, to see how we could help. How can we help keep the project alive and keep it moving forward, keep the research and the stories. And so we became the co-directors and we started the podcast. And so it's just now another way for people to hear stories of healing. So our Radical Remission Stories That Heal podcast is on

Hope, Purpose, and Closing Reflections 33:00

all the all the usual platforms. But you can hear a lovely interview with Miss Nasha here. And, so many people with these stories, there are Radical Remission survivors. And then we do sprinkle in some healers of people who have had at least five Radical Remission in their practice as well. So you can hear the stories of how they helped people heal. So amazing. And it's it's interesting, folks. Also, I did an interview with Kelly not too long on my podcast, The Metabolic Matters, which really talks about, you know, she thought I was bring your own to talk about radical remission.

But what I really wanted her to focus on was passion and purpose. And that's where she was sort of like kind of scary. It was a little scary for her to kind of come out of the closet of, but, put a particular expectation on her that this is what she continues with. And she birthed this into the world. But she has two amazing human beings who have picked it up and are running with it. And of course, she's still involved in it in different ways. But you two have taken it to the next iteration, which is just extraordinary to bear, to be a witness to and to have an experience with directly.

So, I do encourage people to have that sense of where she did have her own wake up of, like, you have to follow you're that inner voice. This is so critical. And so many of the patients I ordered in my career, they didn't. And so I think when you've been met with this, you start to look at your mortality and what you came here to do in a very different way. And I love that Kelly didn't have to get a cancer diagnosis to make those changes. and you and your business partner are running, taking this to the next level.

I love the podcast. It's so good. So everyone in the show notes here, you will have access to information about the books, about the workshops, about the docu series. In fact, I think you're offering a discounted rate for the those listening to access to the docu series as well as to the podcast. So Liz, what an absolute delight to have you here and to be such a messenger and an amplifier of hope. So thank you for all you do. Thank you so much for having me. I really couldn't imagine living my life any other way.

This this is my strong reason for living, right? So yes, thank you for giving me another platform to reach people and I, I really hope this resonates and that people really learn something from this episode. Absolutely awesome. Thanks, Liz. Thank you.