A Better Way to Treat Cancer: Integrative & Non-Toxic Approaches

Introduction to Cellular Health and Cancer Prevention 0:00

Cancer doesn't just happen, it's a process and it takes a long time usually for it to start to manifest. And so what happens is that the cells, they have certain needs in order to be able to stay healthy and to function optimally, to detoxify, repair and all of that. So it has certain nutritional needs. And then also at the same time, we need to clean out those cells, make sure that we get, get rid of metabolic waste and also obviously of chemicals and things that were exposed to in the environment, in our home, what we eat.

So all of these things then is, is what's putting stress on the cell. And so the goal is both, you know, if we want to prevent cancer or if you're addressing cancer, We want make that the cellular health is optimized. Welcome to the Beljansky Cancer Talk Show where integrative science and holistic healing come together. I am Sylvie Belzhanski and in each episode we explore nutrition, lifestyle, mental health and research-backed approaches to support the whole person through cancer and chronic diseases.

Hello and welcome to this new edition of the Belgiansky Cancer Talk Show.

Meet the Guest and the Integrative Medicine Center 1:14

Today my guest is Dr. Michael Carlfeld. Dr Carlfield is a board certified naturopath and leading expert in integrative medicine with over 30 years of experience. As a founder of the Carlsfeld Center in Boys, Hodao specializes in treating the root causes of disease and empowering the body's natural ability to heal with a particular focus on cancer care. A sought-after speaker, author, and educator, Dr. Carlfield has hosted multiple TV and radio shows, including Healthmade Radio and currently leads several internationally recognized podcasts, such as Integrative Cancer and Lyme Solutions and The Dr K Show.

His bestselling book, A Better Way to Treat Cancer, fails as his mission to increase awareness of natural and effecting healing approaches. Welcome Dr. Carl Ferd to the show and thank you for joining me today. Well, Sylvie, it's always such a pleasure anytime I get to spend a little time with you. That day is always better. So this is my joy. Come on. But you know, since you have met you, and I think that's already five or six years ago, I said to myself, one day I have to come to Haidao and visit your center.

And some time ago I saw also an email explaining what you were doing in the anti-aging medicine. I said, that's for me, I have to go. But I didn't even find the time to make it to Idaho, but you are one of my dreams. Well, we just have to do vacation time here. I know when you run your own business, then that's hard, but you just got to take a little break. But I really look forward to the day where I will be able to join your center. But you seem to do so many things in your Center. I mean, ranging from these anti-aging things that really caught my attention to cancer, because of cancer that I got to know you and what you are bringing.

to the world of integrative medicine, can you first, I mean, the range is so wide of things that you are offering. Can you tell us a little bit more about the center and everything you're covering and why is it so, why all those specialties are actually working together? Well, and yeah, I started when I was back in 87, you know, that clinical practice. And so you start small and you see patients in a room and then you suggest supplements and diet. But then as I seeing how health issues became more and more complex with more stressors that we have around us.

I just started to build gradually what I saw that there was a need and bring in then the machines and the therapies and technologies that's needed to be able to address these needs that patients were having. Cancer is, you know, both you and I are very, very passionate about that just because the options are limited for people going through traditional oncology and integrative oncologist where we then also bring in natural therapies have really evolved a lot during the last number of decades. And there's so many really amazing tools that are coming out.

Anti-Aging, Regenerative Medicine, and Wellness Tools 5:14

But cancer essentially is a spectrum. It's not like you're healthy one day and you have cancer the next, it is the process. And so, you know, to me, It is important then to take advantage of even prior to diagnosis to really optimize your health. So that's why I also, in addition to focusing on the integrative oncology, I'll also do a lot of regenerative medicine and preventative medicines. And yes, we have a lot also to, you know, for the skin, yeah, We have devices to help to build up the muscles and the face, without creating frowns and wrinkles, but to building them up and then also tighten skin using non-toxic, also, to helped to built muscles, and burn fat and all these, because those are metabolic dysfunctions.

And we know that cancer is a metabolic disease. So if we can utilize these tools prior to a diagnosis, to me that is much more optimum. And then also maybe run labs to check for mold, for chemicals, or pathogens to work on our emotional well-being. To do all of that, even before diagnosis would be even better. Obviously, if you're diagnosed and you really need to do it. But even, before I think that that's really powerful. So we brought in devices also for our emotional wellbeing, like microcurrent therapy.

We have something that's called Examine, which is an advanced form of transgranular magnetic stimulation. We also have Theta Chamber that puts an individual in Thetastate using vestibular motion by Arnold Beets and kind of certain light into your eyes. And then also Cerebral Electrostimulation, we do EVOX, you know, that is listening to your voice and incongruence in your frequency in you voice, to hear what are some of the emotions and traumas that we can then unravel just through the frequency in your voice.

And then to look at your heart rate variability. So we have a very advanced form of checking, see where's the nervous system at and how's that impacting your brain, your mitochondria, inflammation. your hormones, neurotransmitters, all of that. And then light blood cell analysis. You know, take a little drop of blood, put it under a microscope and see how your blood is behaving. Are we seeing pathogens there? Are you seeing inflammatory patterns? are you digesting your food? How's the tissue integrity?

how active is your immune system? So we have all these different things that we've brought together into one space. That's my goal is to be able to You know, people come and they just need whatever they need. They can come, and get, then we can provide it. And our focus is non-toxic. Our focus regenerative, restorative. So we don't do chemo. We don' do toxic chemicals or things. Just do things that are there to. increase the intelligence in the body, that innate wisdom that we have to support our wellbeing.

So, we had a 17,000 square foot facility here in Boise. And for anyone that's looking to just, you know, have a retreat and enjoy just feeling better, detoxify, heal emotions, regenerate. You know we do stem cells, We do exosomes, who do peptides, with do hormones, would do you name it, then we probably do it. Sounds like a heavenly approach to prevention and everybody should do that. I agree. I was just telling you before we got on that I just had my Weber laser helmet on. It's a true laser that just came out.

So see if we can make myself smarter. And obviously nobody wants to mention Alzheimer's. This becomes an additional tool just for your brain function, mitochondrial activity in your You said nobody wants to mention Alzheimer, but you think it could help with memory? Have you experienced yourself something? Absolutely. I mean, so just sitting still, we're using about 30% of all our energy is used for our brain. So there's a lot of the mitochondrial activity in the brain is very, very important. As we get older, then the energy production in brain decreases.

Anything we can do and then with that, more toxins accumulate, and more inflammation in And more infections are going there. So if we can then utilize these type of technologies, you know, like these red laser helmet, it's called Weber brain, that actually then helps to turn on the mitochondria. We're delivering like three Watts of energy into the brain. And that will then turn off the Mitochondria, It will help to reduce inflammation. It'll activate the immune system to clear off infections. and then you can combine that with, a photosensitizer, let's say, methylene blue, which is fairly readily available.

And the methyline blue will then stain cancer cells and stain different viruses and pathogens that may be up in the brain. Then when we use that laser light, then we're triggering oxidation of these pathogens. And there's been a huge amount of research in regards to one, infections correlating with Alzheimer's, dementia and Parkinson's and all of that, even Lyme, fungus, different viruses, cytomegalovirus is a common one. but also just the light in itself and how that revitalizes brain activity and neural activity in the brain.

So to me, having something like this or having access to something can be phenomenal for your brain health. And nobody out there wants to have longevity, wants have lifespan without brain span, because yes, I want to live a long time, But I want to be aware that I'm there live and be able to communicate with the people around me.

Brain Health, Laser Therapy, and Home Use Devices 11:34

Absolutely. And everybody is speaking of the increased number of cancer around us. But there is also an epidemic of Alzheimer's and other forms of dementia. There is much less noise about that, but it is real and it's really frightening. You were mentioning these things that you put on your head like a helmet. Is it assumed, I mean, just doing a retreat at your place is not good enough? Are people able to purchase this kind of thing and continue at home? Absolutely. This kind a device is a little pricier.

It runs actually about $15,000, you know, this device. So for some people that's within their budget, but there are a lot of great different devices out there that can be really helpful. Obviously using laser is quite different than using LED. LED then light will kind of scatter a little bit all over the place and it won't have as deep penetration. Laser will just, that's when all the light is kind in one band and they're all focused in 1 direction versus running all of the places. Kind of liken it to seven-year-olds playing soccer.

They all run all over the place and there's no organization versus a professional soccer team where everything is just organized and it's the same thing with laser. And so, yeah, so this, this will, and then you have these little fingers, you know, in it that will help to kind of navigate the hair in your, uh, your scalp. Yeah, because. Did you get a head massage at the time? It should, I should actually tell them to do that. So you can kind of massage while you're getting the light. Yeah. Let me see if I can turn it on because it'd be kind be interesting for you just to see it.

See here. Can I kind see how? Yeah, yeah, absolutely. I see very well. You see kind the red laser light in here? Impressive. For how long do you have to keep that on your head? So, it depends. Usually like half an hour is a good amount of time. I start with 10 minutes because anytime you turn on energy anywhere, there's going to be detoxification and killing and all these things. And, and you need to. Be able to clear that. So it is good to start a little bit slower, you know, to help to, so you don't get overwhelmed by maybe too much going on and too many changes in your brain too quickly.

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You will also find educational books, organic teas, personalized health coaching and wellness programs designed to support the whole person, not just the diagnosis. This is not about quick fixes. It's about informed choices, thoughtful formulations and supporting the body alongside conventional care. Explore the products, the research and the resources at maisonbelchanski.com because when science leads, wellness follows. Okay. So let's say I am sold. I want to find some time to come to your place and to have one of those retreats.

You mentioned the word retreat. How long is the retreat and what would be the average program for an old little lady like me? A young, beautiful, gorgeous lady, like yourself. Little old lady. Let's see how it is. I would say, I mean, in a week we can do a lot, but in two weeks, then we really work on both kind of the brain health. We can work, you know, aesthetically, we work building up the pelvis, the floor. You can kind on strengthening different muscles, build up bones. peptide IVs, intravenous laser therapy to also turn on mitochondria, different other nutrients.

We can even bring in exosomes, we can use exasome or peptides or PRP into your face, into hair. So we, can create a whole program that becomes very personalized. on the individual's need. And in addition to that, you know, we have, a phenomenal, it's a trifecta red bed that has a lot, of power to help to revitalize every cell.

Sponsored Resources and Retreat Programs 16:54

We got hyperbaric, web pocket, flowpresso to move the lymphatic, clean that out. So we can really personalize it to you depending on an individual need, but if you're coming here a week, We can do a two weeks, even more. Yeah, so it would be phenomenal for anyone just to want to do anti-aging, longevity, health span, brain span lifespan, all of these things. So it starts with, I assume, a personalized consultation. Yes, yes. About your needs and your wants. Exactly. So then we can, so essentially just give us a call here at the Carpool Center and schedule an appointment and we will set up a protocol for you.

Sounds great. You have to give the phone number after that, send us the call, you have put the number in the chat so everybody can have access to that. Yeah. When you speak at conferences, I mean, you mostly speak about cancer also and addressing it as a metabolic conditions and the addressing the terrain and all that has to do with, helps with anti-aging, but also is even more important when we speak. About cancer, how do you, those integrative therapies can shift the metabolic conditions that allow cancer to thrive.

Yeah, and that's the thing is that, like I mentioned, cancer doesn't just happen, it's a process and it takes a long time usually for it to start to manifest. And so what happens is, that the cells, they have certain needs in order to be able to stay healthy and to, you know, function optimally, to detoxify, repair and all of that. So it has certain nutritional needs. And then also at the same time, we need to clean out those cells, make sure that we get, get rid of metabolic waste and also obviously of chemicals and things that were exposed to in the environment, in our home, what we eat.

So all of these things then is, is what's putting stress on the cell. And so the goal is both, you know, if we want to prevent cancer or if you're addressing cancer, We want make that the cellular health is optimized. It's almost like a cellular retraining that you need to do where you're shifting it from a certain behavior to a healthier behavior.

Cancer as a Metabolic Disease 19:44

And so when toxins start to accumulate, when nutrients or oxygen is not getting to the cell, it's recognizing that if I continue in this direction, I'm not going to survive. It's kind of like an individual that all of a sudden, they don't have any income, maybe they have all these expenses that are still there, so they can kind see that at this rate, that I am not gonna be able to keep my house, feed my family, and do what I need to do. And so they may then start to consider activities that may not be legal, that might not healthy, you know, for the society.

And the cancer cell kind of starts doing the same way. It goes more into a older type of programming, a survival mechanism that existed even prior to we had, the mitochondria that is essentially a bacteria that our cells got infected by long time ago. So our cells then start to kind of kick into a survival type of mode and the mitochondria actually signal to the genome, your DNA, you know, saying that, hey, we're not doing too well here and we need to now shift our behavior. So the cell then starts to shift producing energy without the need of the Mitochondria.

And that way it also becomes immortal because the mitochondria holds the cell death switch. So that it actually can live forever and then start to then ferment glucose and ferment different substances to produce energy. This is what's known as the Warburg effect. Yeah, Dr. Warburg, I got the Nobel prize for recognizing this. So what we are wanting when we're looking then at somebody that is addressing cancer, obviously we want this process to take place in as few cells as possible. We really want to make sure that we support the mitochondrial activity in all the healthy cells.

And if we also can activate the Mitochondria within the cancer cell, using different strategies, you know, blocking how it's gaining energy through the fermentation process and then driving energy, through to the mitochondria. We are then able then to either do one or two things. You know one, if the cell is viable, maybe it is just slightly dysfunctional, then the Mitochondria will then help to repair the genome, your DNA, so that it has healthy signaling. If it is beyond repair, then the mitochondria will then send signal to your genome saying that it's time to flip the switch and let's move on and die.

So supporting mitochondrial activity becomes a really powerful tool when addressing cancer because it isn't that only this cancer has this process versus another. It becomes, you don't have to be cancer specific, I mean, cancer type specific. It actually impacts all types of cancer in some form. Yeah. I mean, that's what my late father, Dr. Mirko Balczanski, was already speaking about, addressing the difference between cancer cells and healthy cells, and the structure of the DNA. And it doesn't really matter where the cancer is located, if it is a male, a female, or what organ.

going to where those cancer cells function and preventing them to grow and multiply. And that is what the beauty with what your father was finding over the decades of research that he was doing is that, you know, looking at the genetic structure and being able to find substances that are able target that altered structure that exists within cancer cells. And it doesn't matter. I know that you are doing a tremendous amount. There's a lot of money going into research, proving exactly what your father was seeing and looking at the breast cancer, prostate cancer brain cancer pancreatic.

colorectal and seeing, you know, by addressing, bringing in substances that are able to target these dysfunctional structures, DNA structures that exist in cancer cells. It doesn't matter what type it is, because the structure, the behavior is similar. When you are facing cancer, you're suddenly facing a myriad of questions. Questions about nutrition, lifestyle, mental and emotional support, and how integrative approaches can work alongside conventional care. The Belgiansky Integrative Cancer Conference brings the conversation together in one place.

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Biomarkers, Immune Testing, and Personalized Cancer Care 25:44

Yeah, and that's what we have been able to see again and again. You have mentioned that you are not doing chemotherapy at your center, so which supportive therapies best complement conventional cancer treatments? Well, so it's not that I'm against chemotherapy or against immunotherapy and the different therapies. It's just that, I feel that they are not the whole solution. And I know there are a lot of great friends, they use, you know, IPT like insulin potentiation therapy, which is a lower dose of chemo, and then using insulin to open up the cancer cells, to form more chemos.

So it is more effective delivery of chemotherapy. My desire is essentially that I want to find out what can I do to address cancer without having to use toxic substances. That is my desire because I feel that there's some kind of dysfunction within the body outside of, and we've learned a lot, but I know we are yet to learn much more. It's almost like if I jump to chemo too quickly, then I'm losing the ability to learn a lot more because yes, chemos and radiation is always going to shrink tumors, but is it addressing cancer?

That becomes the challenge because cancer is a systemic disease. tumors are localized and we equate, you know, being successful with, watching these tumors shrinking. And it is so much more than that because we can do chemo and shrink a tumor, but our terrain is worse off after, our immune system is worst off, after cancer stem cells are more active after. So yes, we shrunk the tumor. But we are now set up for an even harder battle. because we have less resources and the cancer cells, cancer stem cells are still there.

Yeah, that's a problem with conventional medicine. The doctors only look at the tumor and they forget to look the rest of the person. And they shrink the tumors and are just happy with that. Or they remove the tumours surgically and say, you are done. Yeah. I've seen, I mean, it's a good friend of my wife's that she's known for 30 years. You know, she was under the impression that, and she had cervical cancer. She was the under impression she needed to do the chemo and all of that. And then after that come to me and after, you know address it, on a holistic way.

So she did the Chemo, yes the tumor shrunk, but lo and behold, her body was just completely ravaged. with no immune system, no ability, severe pain, not able to eat much. So her fortitude to be able handle kind of the next wave of what the cancer was going to do was very challenged. And so she's essentially now in a place where chemo's not working anymore because whatever cancer cells that were left, they figured out how to navigate. these toxic chemicals, but now she has no, I mean, nutritionally, she's on her way out.

What are the biomarkers or clinical indicators you look for at your clinic when treating somebody with cancer? Yes, I do like to look at circulating tumor cells. I think that that is very valuable. And it is important for people to understand that there's no be all end all marker. You do have to kind of look the picture of the individual. So there are a number of different labs that are good to looks at. But I like the inflammatory markers like C-reactive protein. ferritin, fibrinogen, sedrate, you know, so I do like to look at those.

Again, it can be perfect and a person can still be dealing with cancer. So again, they're not a be all end all, but looking at it as many markers as possible give us the opportunity to kind of catch and see how the body is behaving, how it's responding. then I like to look at the immune system function. You know, so you have a just simple look, at your neutrophil, your lymphocytes, you know see how they're behaving. Frequently what I see with cancer patients, that lymphocyte numbers start to decrease, and then if you get below one, in your absolute lymphosite number, then it becomes a little bit more challenging for you.

And there are certain ratios that you want to, Like the neutrophil to lymphocytes, usually it's good to be around two to one, and then the lymphocyte to monocybe ratio. And you'll do this by looking at the absolute numbers you can create these ratios. So the Lymphocyto to Monocybes ratio, you essentially want to have that as almost as high as you. Because the studies I've done, the people that are diagnosed with cancer, if there are at least about three in that ratio taking lymphoside divided by monocides.

And you have a much better chance of survival. And then there's another marker that, you know, for, that I say for healthy individuals, if you're at least 4.25, You're in a great spot, looking at that picture. and then obviously, we don't want an individual to become anemic. So you look at your hemoglobin and see how that's doing. Also a powerful tool. is at Cyrix Labs, they do something that's called lymphocyte map. And that will tell us a lot how the different components of the immune system, how they're working, your CD4, CD8, TH1, Th2, and Th17.

All of these are different components of the immune system. And then we can see how, what kind of behavior that the cancer is trying to use to manipulate the system and how it's stuck in a kind faulted pattern. That gives us an understanding as to, we'll see maybe that TH2 is upregulated based on, you know, in relationship to TH1. And then we know that, well, we can bring in these natural strategies to help to correct, these dysfunction. So using these different tools, so you can really learn a lot.

I love looking at what's the terrain we're looking, are we looking heavy metals, chemicals? What's a gut looking like? Do we have enough good bacteria, parasites, fungus? Are we dealing with mold? How's our mitochondrial activity? So all of these are different labs that are out there that we can learn these different things to know what are the underlying costs of this cancer.

Addressing Skepticism and the Role of Integrative Oncology 32:44

Because cancer doesn't just happen in a vacuum. There's always a driver. And so if we could identify that and address that, along with supporting the immune system, working on the metabolic aspect, going after the faulty genetic a structure of the cancer using natural targeted oxidative type of therapies like vitamin C, artesanate, ozone or photodynamic therapy by doing that in combination and obviously working on your emotional well-being and energetic structure and all of that. Cancer is a complex disease.

And with that, you need then a comprehensive protocol to address it from all these different aspects. And each individual is obviously unique. Two people dealing with the same type of breast cancer can have two completely different reasons. So we need to identify and see what those reasons are. When cancer enters your life, the questions don't stop at treatment. You start asking, why? What else? And what more can I do to support my body? At the Beljansky Foundation, we believe cancer care deserves deeper answers.

Answers rooted in science, not in shortcuts. For decades, groundbreaking molecular research by Dr. Mirko Belzhansky explored how specific natural compounds selectively target cancer cells while spearing healthy ones. That work continues today through independent research, education, and global collaboration. At belgianski.org, you will find evidence-based resources, expert-led conferences, books, and conversations that explore integrative approaches to cancer and chronic disease alongside conventional care.

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And yet there is a lot of skepticism still around integrative oncology. How do you address that? Well, and I think that that suspicion is becoming less and less. Obviously, oncologists, traditional oncologist are still going to be quite married to the techniques and the solutions that they have. And they're always going Well, there aren't enough research to support this or that. You know, what we do is evidence-based and so they're always going to come with that argument. In reality though, the different therapies that we offer in the integrative space, it's a tremendous amount of research.

behind that. Just looking at the research you're doing on the Oncobalt Pro, it's a tremendous amount and even though it may not be a hundred million dollar or whatever study that's needed to bring out the new chemo agent onto the market, It is still a very a very good study to prove what it's doing. So, and looking at, you know, a substance like curcumin, for instance. I mean, if you go onto PopMed, type in curicumin and cancer, You're going to see studies and research articles. It's going be in the many, many thousands.

To say that it does not have research behind it, integrative therapies is completely false. Yes, it may not be at the same hundred million dollar type of studies, but nobody's gonna make a hundred dollars on curcumin. It's just because it's a natural substance and nobody can patent it. So nobody is gonna put that amount of money in, But it doesn't mean that there's no research. There's lots of research, And I think people are understanding that more, seeing that, more oncologists are, I, think they are accepting that people feel that there is more to their cancer journey than just traditional oncology care.

Because if traditional on oncologic care was everything that they say it is. then nobody would want to kind of look elsewhere. If everyone got cured, then why even look anywhere else? But that's not the case and that is why there is such hunger and thirst for therapies and things that can be done, maybe congruent with traditional oncology and some people choose to do it without traditional oncology. You have written a book with Dr. Dessonnier about breast cancer and what you are saying about the need of the patient to feel heard and seen, which is not offered very often by conventional doctors.

Breast Cancer Support and the New Book 38:14

I think it applies more, especially to women with breast cancers because they often tend to be less hurt by society or more hurt, by some emotional torment that leads to the disease. So I think this is really, really a population that needs to know about you and what you are doing and about your book. Can you show it to us if you have it? Yeah, I had the honor of co-writing this with Dr. Veronique Dessonnier. She started something called Breast Cancer Conqueror, and it was based upon twice she was diagnosed with breast cancer.

As a patient and as a doctor, which was so interesting. Yeah, so she started Breast Cancer Conqueror and that is a coaching program where you have coaches that specialize in guiding women through their breast cancer journey to optimize the result, utilizing the principles that Dr. V that worked in her journey. and they've helped thousands and thousands of people, you know, on their breast cancer journey. So I decided Dr. V was, she'd been working so hard in this organization and at some point some people want to retire.

And so she wanted to retire and I didn't want to see this amazing organization she's built, you know, her legacy. I don't that to go to waste. So I essentially took it over and in that juncture of me taking it, we decided then to write a book that there's been a great need for. She has prior books that she has written and these are just natural therapies to address breast cancer, but there are so many people that are also bringing in traditional oncology into their journey. And so we needed to make sure that we created a book that would guide them through that process.

You know, what to do in preparation for surgery and post-surgery. What to with the most common chemo agents. what natural therapies would be good to work as an adjunct to actually enhance the effect of that specific chem agent and mitigate a lot of the risks. you know, how to address radiations and should I do hormone therapy or not hormone, therapy, all these different questions that a breast cancer patient is navigating. And you're absolutely right. I mean, the women dealing with breast, cancer tends to be the ones that are less heard because we know Women are phenomenal at taking care of everybody else and not recognizing their need, you know, that they need to be nurtured.

They need love and taking of. And so because of that, they frequently actually develop and they see that One of the cancer personalities is exactly that.

Conference Preview and Closing Remarks 41:24

The caretaker, the one that forgets himself and want to be there helping everybody else. So this book, I ended up number one on Amazon and it's a phenomenal book. I'm really proud of it. It came out, you know, last year. You are a great man and a good doctor, Dr. Karshad. Thank you. We look very much forward to having you at the Belgiansky Integrative Cancer Conference in June and you were in San Diego. I don't know what you are going to speak about, about your helmet and what's the future of integrative medicine or breast cancer, but I know that whatever you decide to advise is going be extremely interesting.

Well, thank you. And I look forward to that conference. For all the listeners, this would be the third conference, and I'd say that the first one was amazing. Second one, even more amazing, This third one I can't even imagine how great it's going to be. The speakers, you have rock stars that are kind of leaders in the integrative cancer space addressing research that's being done. So for all listeners out there, I would highly, highly recommend going to the conference in June in San Diego. So I'm so honored to get to be part of it again.

Thank you so very much, Dr. Kallfeld. And we look forward to having you there. Thank you.