Biohack Your Brain With Nic Nac Naturals

Introduction to Nicco and Nic Nac Naturals 0:00

Hi, everyone. Welcome back to another great talk from the Peptide Summit. So, so excited today to be talking to Nicco Magnotto. He's the co-founder and CEO of Nic Nac Naturals. Nicco started off as an electrical engineer immediately. He got bored and he obtained his MBA and moved into the health food space. He's worked in product development, supplements and specialty ingredients. Nic Nac is his first startup with the hopes of providing a much needed, cleaner solution for nicotine delivery. Nicco started Nic Nac in his kitchen, producing what he affectionately refers to as "crack rocks".

Eventually, this created enough "buzz". He thought the idea was worth scaling up. He's also very good at dad jokes, so welcome Nicco! So excited to have you. Thanks so much, Dr. Jen. Happy to be here. Yes, this is such a cool topic, especially for those listening that are into biohacking or optimizing their health and you know, that kind of brings me to the question, how did you get off started on this path? Like why a clean nicotine alternative? Yeah, absolutely. you know, being the nerd that I am, I'm constantly looking at the literature and other influencers in the space, definitely into biohacking and doing all sorts of wild experiments on myself.

Why Nicco Started a Clean Nicotine Alternative 1:35

And, you know, one of the experiments I wanted to do was with nicotine. I wanted to see, you know, if it was, if it did all the things that it was purported to do. And, you know, the best way to do that is to try yourself. and the big problem that I really encountered was there's nothing clean enough to trial by my own standards. So, the easiest solution was, well, let's let's see what I can make. So that that immediately turned into, the the the crack rocks here compared to in the kitchen, whipping up, home, nicotine concoctions, which I don't recommend doing.

but it worked out great. And, Yeah, I, I, like you said, you know, they create enough demand as well. Let's see if people want this. And I think they do. So, you know, nicotine is a really cool chemical. And, you know, just like caffeine, you know, it's so ubiquitous that the demand was there. So it's a fun, exciting product. Yeah, that's really cool. And with your your background in engineering, it kind of makes sense that you would engineer this and then you also had some dabbling in the health food industry.

So you learned about what was really going on and going into products. Yeah, absolutely. So I know I got a lot of background in sweeteners and specialty sweeteners, natural sweeteners, and some other functional ingredients. So definitely build up some background there. And that helped a lot in terms of, you know, getting this thing formulated, which is no small task. Yes, absolutely. And this Nic Nac Naturals, it's kind of it's in its own own category because it's a cleaner nicotine, because a lot of the nicotine products out there are unclean.

And like, why are they unhealthy ingredients and the mode of getting that nicotine into your body. What are some differences between smoking it or having a chew? Absolutely. So the FDA has approved, I think, nearly 600 ingredients or additives or tobacco products. And these and these are ingredients that don't have to be disclosed. And they're not natural ingredients. And they may even increase the addiction potential. So they're not good. You don't know what they are. And so you can't even vet them.

And it makes it a really difficult situation. smoking right away, you know, is required to have flame retardant. So even if you're getting organic, still has flame retardants. Smoke is a known carcinogen. So you know, smoking really obviously is not good. Everyone knows that, with things like chew again, you don't know what additives are in there. one of them that's always in there is sodium carbonate. And this is true of mouth pouches. And that's basically a caustic to increase oral pH which which may be a causative factor for oral lesions.

So that's not a good idea putting something caustic against your gums. they, you know, I don't think we even know how bad vape is because you're combusting artificial sweeteners. Flavors. Who knows what else. And you know, generally speaking, these things aren't heat stable, so we don't know what they're making, what freaky chemicals. And that's going straight into your lungs. Right? So you don't even have your liver protecting you. It's going straight into your bloodstream. it doesn't seem like the long term effects of that are going to be good.

I don't think it's well researched,

Problems with Smoking, Chew, and Vapes 4:45

so I don't think anyone can really say that definitively. But it seems like a bad idea to me. Right. It's it's so crazy. So flame retardants are in cigarets and that's just disgusting. Here I am buying pajamas for my kids, you know, that are 100% cotton so they don't have flame retardant. And and I don't, you know, the crazy thing is about cigarets. Is it? There's no ingredient list. So you don't know that flame retardants are in there. I mean, I feel like it should just have a big red flag. And those are kind disruptors.

So they're going to mess with your hormones. And then you spoke about shoes. Yeah. You don't know what's in there. There's probably bleaching agents and and all sorts of stuff. and then the vapes obviously. I think a great point you brought up was the first pass through the liver. It doesn't have that. It goes straight in. The chemicals are going straight into that vulnerable lung tissue because the liver protects us and detoxifies a lot of things. So those are those are amazing points. Now what about how nicotine goes into your body.

You spoke about, you know, metabolism and stuff. So what happens when you smoke versus take nicotine orally or a patch? Yeah, absolutely. so nicotine obviously is absorbed a lot faster through the lungs. straight to the bloodstream. And, and you're going to see an increase in addiction potential. so that affects, what brain chemicals are hit by the nicotine. So the faster that nicotine is absorbed is associated with increased dopamine response, whereas the slower uptake in nicotine tends to increase acetylcholine.

so if you're looking for more focus, then the slower uptake is better. Dopamine is associated with alertness. Obviously most of us think of dopamine as just being like the really cheap reward system. Increased dopamine also does make you awake. So that's that's part of the stimulant factor for nicotine. This is also why if people lay in bed scrolling on their phone, you know they won't go to sleep. And that that's a dopamine drip that will keep you awake. so obviously there's there's depending on that uptake that's going to bias, you know, kind of what function it has.

You know, a little bit of dopamine probably is a good thing. Too much is obviously bad and creates a lot of dependency. you know, when you absorb it orally, you're actually absorbing up through the buccal tissue, right? You're absorbing it through your cheeks and your gums. You don't want to ingest nicotine because it needs to be oral to absorb it. It has to be in an alkaline environment or at least a neutral pH. Your stomach is too acidic. So if you ingest nicotine, that's a bad idea. And that's going to create a lot of, gastric distress because basically it's like spicy.

If you ever use nicotine, it's it's normally spicy and tingly and, you know, it'd be like it'd be like swallowing a, a Cayenne capsule, you know, on an empty stomach. It's it's going to be uncomfortable. So you want it to be absorbed through the, through the oral tissue, through the skin, so it goes into your bloodstream. But, you know, you don't want to absorb all the bad stuff too. So that's the idea, right? That's a great idea because the mode of entry is so important. Like you spoke the dopamine.

That's very addicting. So smoking what would you say is more addicting than than taking it sublingual or orally? Yeah. Yeah. And I think the literature defends that. I think that's true to my opinion. But, I think that's true. I think that's why vapes are probably the most addictive, it seems, because you can get nicotine levels that are, that are, you know, way higher than what's even found in nature. And then you're absorbing them, you know, in one, in one puff, right? Or one pill, whatever the kids call it.

and, yeah, Dr. Huberman does a really good breakdown on that. If anyone's ever seen that video. to just to kind of paraphrase him a little bit, but yeah, it appears that it's a lot more addictive. Yeah. And you brought up, more than nicotine. Kind of like found in nature. Where where is nicotine from? The molecule. Yeah. So nicotine is found obviously in the tobacco plant. It's it's throughout the nightshade family. So it's can be found in tomatoes, eggplants, potatoes. you know, it's a fairly common chemical, that's in a plant that looks like while the spare gas.

So if you're ever foraging asparagus, be very careful because there's a plant that looks just like it. And it's, very high in nicotine. And if you consume it, it will make you sick. so. Yeah. So it's a common chemical in nature, just like caffeine, as you know. It's a it's a very, common plant alkaloid. Yeah, that's pretty cool. So why did nicotine get a bad name? Because it is addictive, right? To. Yeah, absolutely. And I mean, addiction is really complicated. So, you know, there's reasons why smoking is, is wildly addictive.

so there's a lot to that. And we can get into the details of how and why it's addictive. but you know. I'm sorry. so here's the question again. So that it gets a bad rap for being addictive and, and we're looking at the benefits of it, so it's easy to balance those out. Right. Yeah. Yeah. Okay. Sorry. Yeah. Of course. yeah. So of course it's got a bad rap because it's the chemical that was easiest to identify, you know.

How Nicotine Absorption Changes Its Effects 10:15

And so it was one of those things where, you know, science often is based on just what you have access to. And so they did a bunch of research on nicotine because that was a chemical that they found in smoking and then cigarets. So like, oh, nicotine must be the culprit for everything. And then no one did any research on the arsenic in the tar and the smoke. so science often just gets things wrong. And so nicotine was guilty by association for a long time because it is addictive. And so they thought, oh, well, smoking's bad because they're addicted to nicotine and kind of reductionist thinking that, you know, science is very vulnerable to.

And we have to be careful with. And, you know, correlation is not causation. And people say it all the time, but people can't people don't seem to appreciate it too much. Right. And I think they're missing out on the benefits of nicotine. It's kind of like you brought up caffeine. Caffeine is super addictive. And it is a drug. Yet I'm. You're saying the arsenic in tar? I'm thinking of caffeine with all these new, really sugary drinks. It's like the catalyst to diabetes with these young girls anymore.

And, you know, you're you're getting your caffeine in your, you know, latte, but you're also getting tons of sugar and, and chemicals. So it's very interesting to see those two play out because caffeine, it's like a normal thing. People drinking a million monsters a day, yet they're like, oh, nicotine. It's it's of course it's bad, but you know, you're not using it the right way. So I would love the audience to learn about some research with the cognitive benefits of nicotine, because this is something this is another tool in your toolbox.

I've used it in my office before as a tool. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think, I think a lot of this research is in its infancy. You know, for the most part, science hasn't looked at nicotine outside of the context of smoking. So the literature is pretty, is pretty sparse, and nothing is definitive yet. So, you know, just making sure I'm not making any claims here. I think it's exciting. I think if there's any researchers listening, I think this is a really exciting space where a lot of research is needed.

but the initial the initial studies seemed really promising. you know, a lot of people are familiar with the mind study, which is being conducted through, I believe, the NIH, Alzheimer's Drug Discovery Foundation, Vanderbilt University, and University of Southern California. and that's a study to see if Alzheimer's can be combated with nicotine. And I think the initial results are really positive. You know, the study isn't complete yet. So so, you know, we're looking forward to seeing what they actually come back with.

And if it becomes something that's actually prescriptive. but it seems that nicotine is protective to some degree. And it'll be exciting to find out to to what degree that's true. there's a there's a study that I really like that I think is a little bit more, a little bit more specific, but I think really exciting within that space. And that actually analyzed, brain functional network efficiency by using MRI's. And this is just a preliminary study is only 15 subjects, but it actually mapped using MRI, MRI's, the the networks in the brain.

And, you know, kind of where the brain chemicals are moving. and what's really cool is if the subject had nicotine and this, this was, placebo controlled, if they had nicotine, then their brain made more efficient neural networks. And that's and that's part, you know, it's that's really cool. I mean, that's cool. Causative evidence. again, not definitive as only 15 subjects. A lot more research needed. But that's good evidence, especially when, in Alzheimer's and Parkinson's, you see a lot of reduction in efficiency in these neural networks.

So the idea that with nicotine on board that your brain is able to make new pathways more efficiently, potentially even have increased neuroplasticity. That to me is really exciting. you know, and it's going to be exciting to see where the research goes. Yeah. And that's one thing that, you know, we have to understand that who funds these research studies, you know, in nicotine, it's not going to be the newest drug. Right. This this gets this happens a lot. We've seen this during the pandemic. Old things get looked over or things that are natural get looked over.

And just because they get looked over doesn't mean they're amazing. And the mind study. Yeah I, I'm looking at the website you know mind study.org and you know they spell it out right there. Nicotine does not cause cancer heart disease or respiratory illness. It's tar and thousands of other chemicals and cigarets. So, it's guilty by association, which is not nice, right? Yeah. It's great. I get in trouble for saying that. But if the NIH says it's a. That's good. Oh, yes. You're, They're saying it right here, you know.

Yeah. And that's his mainstay. So, I mean, how cool, like, I, I was joking with someone about this. I think I was enlightening our Uber driver about like cigarets because I saw people vaping and I'm like, why do people Vega I, I've been known to just, like, throw people's vapes away if I'm out at like out at a bar or something. And, but I try not to do that because people get really mad and, you know, I try to explain to them the science behind it. I'm like, you don't need the vape.

Nicotineu2019s Reputation and Cognitive Research 15:30

You could do nicotine like, like safely and and not have all the bad stuff in it because, you know, and then some part of me is thinking the people that vape and smoke, maybe they're not getting as much cognitive benefits because their body is dealing with all the other crap in there. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think there is evidence that smoking will probably reduce your likelihood of Alzheimer's. You know, and in the same way, with coffee drinkers, you know, coffee drinkers tend to have less Alzheimer's.

I think that's probably true, but it's going to come at the cost of lung cancer. Right. And then, you know, how good is that data? Because they're dying prematurely. So it's difficult to say what the net benefit is. But but yeah, obviously smoking is not the way to do it. Yeah. And with with the cognitive improvement that we see. Can you explain like why in the brain like talk about a CEO calling a little bit more for our listeners. Yeah, absolutely. So acetylcholine is the brain chemical associated with focus and memory.

and in many ways a lot of high level, higher level thinking and creative thinking. so nicotine hits exactly that pathway and it and it really accelerates it kind of like is the afterburners, if you will, for, for that neural pathway and that goes all the way through your nervous system. So that isn't only in your brain that's going all the way through your, your vagus nerve to your digestive system. And, you know, even potentially through your, your muscles, muscular system and affects your coordination, potentially, so when you're acetylcholine is increased, your your functional memory is increased.

Your, your, long term memory storage is improved. Your focus is improved. Your Visio spatial awareness is likely improved. so all these things are heightened because again, that's the that brain chemicals associated all those processes. So if you amp up that signaling it's going to improve the efficiency for all those processes. Which again is why people like it for things that need higher level function and thinking, creativity. Yeah. And even like you said about the spatial aspects, I mean, when I work in the emergency room, I see a lot of older people falling, you know, and, and this is why.

Or they have dementia and they get confused and they fall or they get lost. and it's just so cool that they're studying this in the, in the elderly, in dementia. But, you know, I wonder if it would just help everyone, you know, to to do. Yeah. Yeah. I think there's going to be some studies coming out soon. for more athletic applications. There are some disagreements on whether or not they increase acetylcholine downstream, hurts or benefits, muscular activation. So that's debated. I'm not really sure on the conclusion.

I personally I've not noticed any decrease in muscular performance from using it. if anything, it seems like it's a mind over matter thing. And if your brain's firing on all cylinders, I feel like I'm stronger in the gym. If I have nicotine as opposed to not. That's my personal experience. Again, I don't think there's good research on that at all. There is research, though, in coordination. I actually, I don't have the study at my fingertips. I can't I don't recall it, but I think there was a study, if I recall correctly, having baseball players hit a ball off a tee to hit targets or maybe something along those lines.

And I'm just kind of grasping at straws here. But there was an increase in coordination and accuracy with nicotine. So that was that was kind of fascinating. And then also that that speaks volumes to the history of obviously like, nicotine use with baseball, right? Like these athletes have been using it for a reason. So it appears that it appears that there is probably that visual spatial awareness increase is beneficial for coordination for things like baseball. You know, it'd be interesting to see and like tennis and golf and other sports that are highly technical.

But it appears that there's an application and until that research is done, people will have to kind of experiment for themselves and see. Yeah, that's really cool. So, that'd be interesting to see, maybe, you know, myself or friends and family try that out. You know, with golf, you know, doing better. But I found I found this study. So from the NIH, again, nicotine could induce changes in endocrine and sympathetic sympathetic nervous activity and enhance cognitive function and baseball hitting performance.

However, no increase in muscle strength was observed after nicotine intake. So interesting. But I mean, when I'm at the gym and I'm lifting, you know, if I have better, like, focus and coordination, then I'm going to get stronger, right? Like, I might like you were saying, you know, you feel like you can kind of do more. Yeah, absolutely. And I think I think generally speaking, again, it's mind over matter with most with most exercise, you know, if you if you believe you can do it, it makes a big difference. So yeah, that's really cool.

Oh, and here's there's another one on the effects of nicotine gum and baseball players. And it said, you know, increase sympathetic nervous system activity, enhance cognitive function, improve baseball performance. This is where I see your product, knick knack naturals like the pro athletes instead of chewing and spitting and, you know, into the cup and getting mouth cancer and all that and ulcers, like having them have this healthy mint that is sweetened with proper sweeteners. What sweetener do you use with xylitol?

That's what I thought, which also has beneficial effects on the mouth flora. Yes, yes. the xylitol is really cool. It definitely is a minimum gram positive, but it appears to be a pretty potent probiotic. And to really improve the overall landscape of the microbiome. so that's that's really cool. Yeah. Now, I'm not going to be hanging out at the Little League, but I mean, I think that this would be something that's good. You, you need to get like the MLB on on. Absolutely. Well they're all using nicotine already right.

So might be using the in my opinion hands down the best option. So I agree I. Might not know about it. I mean I bet you the they probably don't have like a integrative functional doctor as their team doc and they probably are just like, well, they're not going to change, right? But oh, they might, they might. We just I mean, our product is only a little over a year old, so we're still pretty much brand new. We are. If you know anyone at the MLB, let us know. Well, welcome. All right. Right. Well, we can talk about it.

So let's talk about some anecdotal benefits that like people are talking about. I think you brought up, like, Parkinson's. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I think, I think people are observing benefits across the neurodegenerative landscape. you know, I think I think Parkinson's and Alzheimer's go hand in hand. I think there's good evidence that it could potentially be protective, for a number of reasons. You know, it appears to be a natural anti-inflammatory, which is great because if you can decrease inflammation in your brain, that'd be great.

I think that a lot of research needs to happen on what's happening in the mitochondria with nicotine. Obviously, it's closer closely related to niacinamide or nicotinamide or niacin. They're all they're all closely related. And it appears to be doing something with the mitochondria because it has a lot of the, the benefits of caffeine does in terms of metabolism.

Brain Chemistry, Focus, and Performance 23:00

So I don't know if it's a decompiler like caffeine as, but it certainly revs the metabolism decreases appetite increases, fat metabolism. so so that's that's something that's observable. and it'd be interesting to learn more because it appears that it has it might have some mitochondrial benefit as well as well. so yeah, that's an exciting space. Obviously the anti-inflammatory part is totally beneficial across, you know, really any neural issue. I thought, one of the really exciting things that was observed in rodents was that, multiple sclerosis, that antigen is, is, bound up by nicotine.

So if you have Ms.. This might be a really effective way to at least manage symptoms of Ms.. at least in rodents. That was, I think, exceedingly positive. So it'd be interesting to see, you know, again, the research needs to occur in, in humans and see, you know, how it affects Ms.. But if it's binding to that antigen, which is the myelin antigen. So that's like literally what's attacking the brain if you have Ms.. If it's if it's reducing the negative impact of that, that seems really positive.

Wow. That's awesome. and that's a thing. There might never be research on these things because a drug company can't do anything with it. I think that's the hardest part for me as a doctor is that, you know, we have these great things that, like you were thinking through the process like it's going to work and this is why it works. But we don't have the recession. We might never get the research. but it doesn't have a lot of side effects. So it's it's really that's really cool. Especially like with the mitochondria, it all kind of kind of makes sense that that it would work and help.

yeah. Absolutely. Yeah. It's just a bummer. Like I was saying earlier that it's just not talked about as much or, you know, you talk about nicotine and it's just given such a negative view where it does all these beautiful things. Yeah. No. Absolutely, absolutely. And hopefully it'll it'll shift gears. You know, obviously there's no money on nicotine because it's, you know, you can go buy a can of Knickknack for 6 or 7 bucks and that might be all you need. You might only need it one time to solve whatever problem you know, that isn't going to get the pharmaceutical industry excited, right?

You know. Right. Well. And the the different neurological diseases you're you were talking about, you know, we're talking about dementia. We're talking about Ms.. We're talking about Parkinson's. That is brain inflammation. And, you know, getting to the root cause of that inflammation is important. But also, you know, treating it in the brain, that's just the brain inflammation, dementia is type three diabetes, right. So yeah, obviously yet being healthy and preventing all that is really important.

But if you know people struggling, you know, nicotine might be something that they can they can add in. Another cool thing that the research is pointing towards helping is, is Covid long haul. Yeah. Yeah. There was a really interesting study. let me see if I have it here. I think I do, yeah. from BMC is the post Covid 19 syndrome a severe impairment of the pseudo colon orchestrated neuromodulation that responds to nicotine administration. So basically what this study gets at and it's and it's you know, it's again, really small trial but really interesting because the results are wildly positive.

but the idea is that the spike protein, which is that a Ace2 receptor is, is very popular throughout that pathway. And then that spike protein can get basically clogged up. That pathway is the idea. But nicotine is so preferential. And this is why people are having that brain fog and all that. Your cell calling pathway is all clogged. The spike proteins. If you have nicotine within the system, it ends up liberating those receptors. at least that's the theory within the within the study, you know, what was it within like 1 to 3 days, people that had like long term brain fog from long haul Covid.

It was it was corrected. So that's really cool. so it appears to be really effective at restoring that connection, which also might be for people that have, kind of like more of an anxiety induced, constipation. Nicotine can be also like really effective for that too, because it totally just reconnects that vagus nerve, that gut brain access. They actually call it what vagus nerve toning. So it appears to be really effective for that too. If you if you're having constipation issues and it's and if it's a nervous system issue then then yeah, it can be super effective for that too.

So those are really cool. And that's very common with people. They get their in sympathetic overload. So exactly. You help take the edge off. Well one thing that people might be scared of is the addictive properties. So I know you're not, suggesting treatments or anything like that, but can you maybe walk us through common like dose or starting out or your personal use of. Sure, sure. Well, those are two different things, but I'll, I'll start with I'll start with what I recommend people do and then I'll talk about what I do.

so I recommend people that if you. Well, first of all, I should say that if you don't use nicotine, it is addictive and you probably shouldn't use it. but if you're going to ignore me, which by all means, make your own decisions, I recommend starting with, you know, we make a three milligram product. If you don't use nicotine, I would break that down and probably start with one milligram. They're nice, like flat tablets. They're really easy to snap. So if you just do like approximately a third, that'll be approximately one milligram.

I think one milligram is plenty for most people to try nicotine if you've never tried it before. and, and then you're going to kind of know where you're at from there. You know, it. The variance in nicotine tolerance is very similar to that of caffeine. You know, some people can handle 300mg and some people can only handle 30. So nicotine is the same way you need to. And you need a gauge where you're at before you jump in with both feet. You know, we have people who've never used nicotine before or six milligram.

And, you know, the six milligram product that we make is for people that are using already a lot of nicotine. So don't do that. And even even a half a six milligram will hit a lot harder than a three milligram because the rate of absorption

Potential Benefits for Neurodegeneration and Long COVID 29:30

is a lot faster. So just, just, word of caution there. and you don't want to have too much nicotine if you're not used to it. Too much nicotine, you know, it makes you nauseous. All these bad things you don't want. So you want to go slow and listen to your body, and you know, use it very prudently and take breaks. You know, we're not trying to get people addicted. We're trying to just provide the best possible product. So take breaks. And that way your, you know, your your brain receptors are as sensitive as possible and you don't have dependency, which, you know, we're discouraging dependency for sure.

Yeah I. Explained sorry. Can you explain taking breaks a little bit more? you know, I explain it to my, my patients. Like with peptides. We need to take breaks right? We cycle them, hormones. You know, people on estradiol, we take one day off to let those receptors reset. So can you talk about, like, what kind of breaks should they be taking? Should they just use it if they need to write a paper or a blog article like once a week or, you know, take it when they're driving or you know, what do you see and what should people expect?

Absolutely. You know, this is one of those things where there isn't good research. And I've seen such a wild variation between people that I know that there's a good answer to that. what works for me may not work for you because, you know, I've been known to have 15 and a single day of the three milligram. I can't handle the six personally. And then the next day I have not. And that isn't a problem for me. I'm not an addictive. I don't have a lot of addiction potential, I think personally, but it's going to have to be something that you monitor yourself and experiment with to find the best, the best place, you know?

And the easy way to do that is, you know, can you not have it? That's a good question because you should be able to go without it. And then, you know, where are you hitting the diminishing returns? You know, this is like a common thing and in all biohacking. But, you know, nicotine is a pretty easy one to dial in because you're going to know how you feel pretty quick, and then you going to know how you want to feel when you have it, if that makes sense. And then if you're not getting that, then you need you need to take a break.

and you know, and then it's also just, you know, be wise about when you use this tool. Right? So, you know, you want it to work when you are doing your blog post, when you do need to be creative, when you need to get that like last bit of energy out. So save it for when you need it. And then you know when you when you're just taking it easier, don't really care. You know you're just going through the motions that day. There's no reason to be hitting the afterburner, so to speak. So I kind of think that's the the balance to shoot for.

But it's very subjective. Of course. Right. Or use it if you're in a golf tournament and you got a yeah you got to use it, I don't know. So I personally I haven't used nicotine yet because I'm still breastfeeding. So I just I need to wait. There's a few things that I have to wait on until that's done. because we didn't talk about that. Who can't take nicotine? Can we? Give this to our 11 year old who has is in a championship baseball game? I'm just kidding. But like. Yeah, yeah, we. Didn't we didn't go over that. Like, who shouldn't be taking it?

That's. Yeah I mean I don't think there's good research and there never will be. You know, there's never going to be good research on if nicotine is appropriate to use in children or, or for breastfeeding or, you know, anything along those lines. so of course, just don't do it. Don't it should be 21 plus it may affect brain development. I don't know how good that relationship that that research is. but you know, just like, you know, you're not supposed of alcohol before 21, you know, I probably shouldn't have nicotine before 21 just to ensure that it isn't affecting anything.

and those are all just, you know, just being cautious. Right. what what's the half life of oral nicotine? Nicotine in general has about a 45 minute half life. so, so it's out of your system pretty quickly. Yeah. So that that's good to know. And I guess that would be like the addiction. You'd be able to gauge your addiction on that too, right? Like how you feel after the 45 minutes. Sure, sure. Yeah. I think I think that would be a good indication. If you need another 1 in 40 five minutes, then. Right.

You might want it too much. That's probably what people are most nervous about, right? I bet you people are out there listening. They're like, I want to try it. But these are the questions that, that I'm nervous about, if that makes sense. Sure. Absolutely. Yeah. I mean. Yeah, that's pretty cool. Like, you're explaining it so well to someone that's a newbie to this biohacking chemical. I'm happy to hear. So what do you what do you do? Oh, yeah. Yeah. What do you like? Like, well, I guess, like, how do you hack this into your daily practice or, like, what's your favorite reason to take it?

And and you said you gave us a little bit. You do take breaks like a week at a time and stuff. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. you know, I, I like it whenever I'm. I want an edge, you know? So for me, that's pretty often. I'm, CEO of a startup, and it's very demanding. And I'm gonna say you probably have to, like, be on your game a lot. Yeah, I have to be on my game a lot. I've got. I've got, two kids and one of them's a newborn, so I'm. And I'm also doing this, so it's a little bit crazy for me in my life right now.

And it's I'm I'll say I'm very grateful to have it because it makes it so I don't fall asleep at the wheel too often. so that's good. and then I tend to be a heavier user for that reason, because I, I do find that it's giving me that edge. so I, I tend to take longer breaks because I tend to take it too far. And then I just go fully cut back and then reset and then kind of let it escalate again and dog gets out of hand. you know, I don't what's, what's cool about nicotine is I don't notice, jitters or anything like that.

You know, it's caffeine. You get that cortisol increase and eventually the high levels of cortisol will, you know, you get the jitters and you don't feel so good with nicotine. You got to be careful, too, because if you overdo it, you can get nauseous if there's just too much nicotine in your system. but generally speaking, it it tends to relax you while being a stimulant, which is which is an unusual combination. And it's actually, I think, really unusual compared to really any stimulant, because most stimulants, you'll often there's a reduction in creativity or there's some type of increase in anxiety.

so nicotine is really unique in that the ceiling is the ceiling is low in terms of it being a stimulant. You know, it's not going to keep you awake if you're totally exhausted. Like, it's not it isn't it isn't a methamphetamine like, it's like you're still going to go to sleep. But it also like encourages that high level creative thinking and it doesn't stress you out. So that's kind of a that makes it a little bit more unique. And it's a little bit of a more interesting tool that you can play with,

Dosing, Breaks, and Personal Use 36:30

you know, later in the evening, which is cool. And then, you know, when you do have things where you want to perform, but you don't want to increase your stress level. I think that's, then that's, you know, especially like in social situations, Mega plays really nicely for that. Yeah. So that's awesome. What about the appetite suppression? do you feel that a lot? And the people that use the, the Mensa Knickknack Naturals, do they feel that. Yeah, absolutely. I think it's one of the best appetite suppressors.

I think it at least for me it's super effective, just totally kills my appetite. if you're into fasting, I think it's one of the best tools for fasting. Totally. Just totally kills your appetite. that's my experience. And it'll vary for people. And then, you know, just like caffeine, it causes, increased blood fat levels. You know, it's, liberates fatty acids. So it appears to be good for that, too. And that's why, you know, not all smokers, but smokers do tend to be lean, right? Right. Or getting them off of smoking or patches.

I remember I was talking about your product with someone at a Christmas party and I'm like, hey, like you, you can't like patches have like gross stuff in them. I'm like, you need this mint instead. you know, because he actually went from smoking to, not the patches. Sorry. The chews. Do you know, like the chews without tobacco in them, but they still have gross stuff in them. So he was like, yeah, going down. Yeah. And I'm like, you could, you know. And he was in the health stuff, but he thought he was doing the best he thought he could.

I'm like, but there's a better option out there. But but yeah, the appetite suppressant stuff, is really interesting. I, I'm excited to try it. I mean, really I could with the half life timing because I, I have a older than a toddler so I could make it work. I might have to try that on one of mine longer fast. because, you know, sometimes those longer fasts, you need a little push. Sometimes I'll cold plunge if I'm at that 24 hour point of a fast and I'm going to feed my kids dinner, which is the hardest part of fasting, as you know, as a dad. Right?

who maybe I'll try that, I don't think. I don't think I have heard people using that. Tell me more. Well, it's going to hit harder. So that's that's one thing to be aware of, is if at least this is my observation, if you're using nicotine on an empty stomach, you need a lot less. so use less. at least start with less. You can always add more. Yeah. I didn't tell you to do it while breastfeeding so that. Well, I'm just saying, like, because it's usually just at night now. and maybe in the car. Okay. Yeah. So.

So maybe I'm one of my longer fast. I could, I could time it, but obviously, yes, with that half life, I was just thinking, I feel like I'm missing out now that you brought up the fasting. I'm like, oh, because sometimes you just need that extra bit. So, so usually probably like try a half a dose and like you said, you could always add a little bit more. On or you could always spit it out. I mean that's the thing is it's it's a tablet. If you start to feel like I'm getting a little too much, spit it out.

So yeah, it's one of those things where just if you and especially as you, if you're as long as you're thoughtful and mindful, you're paying attention, you're seeing you're listening to how your body feels. I don't think you're going to let it get out of hand, you know? And then the other thing is you can always put it back in. So, you know, yeah, just exercise temperance. And I don't think it should be a big deal. Yeah, that's pretty cool. I and what's great about that because when you absorb things like sublingual or, you know, in the mucosa, it is absorbed rapidly.

Obviously not as rapidly as smoking as we talked about earlier or vaping. But when you take something in your digesting it, it's like it depends on your stomach acid. And if you have food in your or you just it depends on all these things. So that is nice. You get that feedback right away. Yeah, absolutely. And especially a patch too. That's going to be a different sensation too. So this is just probably the this is the best mode of nicotine for biohacking it seems. We sure hope so. That was our goal.

Like I said you got to get it in. so every like retirement community, every pickleball tournament, the possibilities are endless. And we got to start sponsoring all the pickleball. Yeah. no. Really. Right. It'd be so funny. Just like these older people out there and be like, they must be on nicotine. I it is it.

Appetite Suppression, Fasting, and Product Wrap-Up 41:00

It's not a banned item either. Right. Because all these. That's not players. Yeah yeah yeah yeah. Here you go. Use it for sports. Yeah. Yeah. They would have to ban caffeine if they banned nicotine I feel like or and alcohol they don't. I would think so. Yeah. So so that's pretty cool. So I just love the flexibility of this product and of nicotine. I think it's just an underutilized biohacking tool because there hasn't been a lot of natural options. Yeah. Yeah. I mean up until very recently, you're all your options are just tobacco and and, you know, for the aforementioned reasons, it's just not not a good option.

There's, there's it's gotten too dirty. And yet maybe in other countries there's some better options that, you know, have looser regulations, ironically. But even so, there's still a lot of risk in pesticides and arsenic and all sorts of stuff that you don't want. That's common in the tobacco crop. So yes. Yes. Awesome. Well, Nicco, like, I'm so glad that you decided to make this in your kitchen and then be bold and do a startup so everyone else could enjoy the benefits of nicotine healthily. anything else that you would like to close with and I would love for you to share how people can get your product.

Yeah, absolutely. Yeah. If you'd like to check us out, we're just at nicnac.com. That's nicnac.com. there's some helpful research links there if you go to our research page. Nothing. We're totally unaffiliated. Just random articles that we thought were cool. If want to take a look, other than that, I think that pretty much covers it. Awesome. Well, we're so excited to have you as a sponsor, and also just for the amazing product and education that you give. So thank you so much, Nicco. Thank you so much, Dr. Jen. Really appreciate it.