Can Keto Calm Autoimmune Disease? What the Evidence Shows

Introduction and Guest Background 0:00

Hello everyone. Welcome back to Reversing Hashimoto's and Thyroid Disorders Summit. I am your host, Doctor Anshul Gupta, world's Hashimoto's expert and now I have with me a very special guest over here because she has done an experience, you know, dealing with a lot of different clients, specifically thyroid. Hashimoto's struggling with weight issues and then help them navigate through the journey, specifically focusing on a ketogenic lifestyle. So this is we are going to talk about how ketogenic lifestyle could be useful.

What is the best way of using it, what are the mistakes people make it and how simple it is to follow. And that's the deal that we are going to give to you today. But let me introduce her first before we delve into all of this discussion. So Doctor Kelly Rutley is a seasoned enterprise now. And business strategist who has been building and scaling businesses for over 25 years, from launching a mobile fitness business in the Bay area in the 90s to running multiple chiropractic practices to pioneering online health coaching before it was mainstream, Kelly has consistently stayed ahead of the curve.

In 2016, she built a weight loss coaching business from 0 to 6 figures in under four months and scaled it to over 1 million in services. Today, she helps holistic health practitioners create and sell high tech and virtual coaching offers so they can grow thriving businesses and design the lies the dream of Doctor Kellee Rutley, welcome over here. Thank you. Doctor Gupta, I'm so honored to be with you today and I'm really looking forward to our conversation. Thank you for having me. Absolutely. It is really a pleasure.

And the work that you're doing is so amazing. You know, we were discussing before, like, you know, how people like me, you know, who have been seeing patients are like running regular practices, how we can reach many more people and how we can help so many more people to improve their health. But unfortunately, we do not know how to do it. So people like you are doing amazing job to helping out. So thank you so much for doing that. Thank you, thank you. Yes, it's it is it is absolutely my my passion and my pleasure.

And my purpose to be able to, show practitioners how to create freedom in their lives is the brick and mortar lifestyle. Is is wearing them down. So I love to teach people how to create hybrid practices, which is brick and mortar and online or just virtual and online. And you and I were just talking about how much more access people have to us and to our information than they ever had before. Zoom and online practices. So I think it's an exciting time and it's just getting more exciting. Absolutely.

So why don't you first start with discussion about the ketogenic lifestyle, right. You know, ketogenic diet, you know, like, you know, came out, became so popular, specifically used as a modality to help people to lose weight. But then we started realizing it is just not about weight loss. It was helpful in so many other things, including immunity as well as autoimmunity. So why don't we start with like how Hashimoto's patients, you know, like can benefit from this ketogenic lifestyle? Yeah, absolutely.

And you know, I know that you you've been around a little while, just like I have.

How Ketogenic Lifestyle Helps Hashimoto's 3:34

And long before the ketogenic diet or the keto diet became popular, I mean, we were using a ketogenic approach inside of our brick and mortar practices, quietly, right, to address all types of, conditions that were coming into our practices. Most of them associated with autoimmunity. Right. So we weren't using the ketogenic lifestyle inside of our practices for weight loss. Weight loss was a welcome side effect that everybody got, you know, was very happy about. And that's how, you know, really how I built a brick and mortar is word of mouth.

Because who doesn't want weight loss, right. Everybody wants weight loss. But it wasn't the intention. And so what we've always known, inside of our practices is, when applied properly, a adequate protein, adequate fat and low carbohydrate, not very low carbohydrate. Right. Like not no carbohydrate, but a very low carbohydrate lifestyle. With the addition of regular movement and exercise and plenty of sunshine and all of the things that we've all been promoting for so long had incredible, positive impacts on autoimmune disorders.

It especially Hashimoto's thyroiditis. Now, remember, we were never treating these conditions right. And so and as a chiropractor, that just it was not inside scope to treat Hashimoto's, especially back then. A lot has changed with, with functional medicine, now. But this was before functional medicine. And so, you know, we saw dramatic improvements, not just in labs, but how patients felt. And I think Doctor Gupta, that that is as important, if not more important, because, you know, what we were seeing with many people who were coming in with thyroid issues and autoimmune issues, their lab results might be looking better on paper as a result of adding, synthetic, thyroid or other synthetic hormones.

Their lab values might look better, but they didn't look better. In other words, they were still overweight. They still had dry skin. They were still losing their hair. And they were still exhausted and confused. Now they're really confused because on paper, their medical doctor said, you're better. Your Hashimoto's is getting better. Your autoimmunity is getting better based on what's on this paper. But they weren't feeling better. And that is what I think was driving them into chiropractors, because we were always the last house on the block.

Right? Well, if nothing else is making me feel better, I might as well try the chiropractor. And it's just been, it was phenomenal to see the results. And we just kind of kept it under our hats that this was working so well. When the ketogenic approach became mainstream. And now, I mean, it's gangbusters, right? I mean, I think about some of the work that's being done and some of the research is being done. Now, I particularly think about what what's being done, the book written by Doctor Palmer called Brain Energy.

And, you know, the, the ketogenic approach to, to mental health. It's just so exciting to see it mainstream. It just wasn't always that way. Absolutely. And that's what, like most people are unaware of, that the ketogenic diet has so many research studies, you know, which has been shown improvement in several chronic diseases, several autoimmune diseases, whether it's how she motor disease, rheumatoid arthritis or like brain related diseases, people who have dementia or brain fog or seizures, a whole bunch of diseases, you know, have shown improvement.

And, you know, as you were sharing that how ketogenic diet, you know, the main goal was working on the immune process, the body's immunity. What was the main goal of it? While the weight loss was kind of the side effect that, you know, we all experience, which obviously was a welcome side effect. So talk a little bit about like how ketogenic diet, you know, immunity because we know that in Hashimoto's it's the autoimmune process which is destroying the thyroid gland. So how the disease acted with the ketogenic diet.

Yeah. Well, there's a few things that, you know, again, when we looked back at the results we were getting, we asked ourselves, you know, what is it about this ketogenic protocol that we're giving our patients with autoimmunity? What is it about it that made it so effective? And of course, we're looking at that more now because we have the research that we didn't have back then. So, one of the things was the ketogenic, lifestyle, the ketogenic diet pretty much removes gluten, right? And with the removal of gluten, what do we know about the thyroid gland and gluten?

They're molecularly similar, if not the same. So autoimmunity, the auto the immune system attack, you know, with leaky gut caused by gluten. The the immune system attacks the gluten and also the thyroid. So again, we did not know that back then, but we were just naturally taking gluten out in order to lower the carbohydrates, increasing things like selenium, vitamin D and supplementing with zinc and magnesium. Right. So because we were taking out other foods that were increasing, or causing insulin resistance, we were supplementing with these things that we know.

Now, looking back, they really help with thyroid health. The I think, you know, what was going on back then to Doctor Gupta. And I don't know if you remember this period of time when their the rhetoric in, in medicine was that a low carbohydrate diet was actually harmful to people with thyroid disease. You remember that. Yeah. So that was based on a study from the 70s. In the 80s, I believe it was called the Vermont Study. But it was what we know now is it's a flawed study. And what we learned about what we did learn in that study is that people did not do well on an extremely low carbohydrate or no carbohydrate diet, which is not what we were doing.

So we are making sure that our patients had about 50 to 100g of carbohydrate per day, which is not considered very low carbohydrate. Maybe, you know, 15 or 12 or nine grams of carbohydrate per day or none. Right? Like the carnivore diet is very low carbohydrate. But what the American, Western diet naturally is high carbohydrate. What we considered normal amounts of carbohydrate is actually double what we really need to be taking in every day.

Why Keto Reduces Inflammation and Supports Thyroid Health 10:28

So in contrast, it feels like it's very low carbohydrate, but it's really not. So, that worked really well. The addition of healthy fats. So again, back in the 70s and 80s, what was the demon. Right. Fat. And what do we know now? Fat is our friend. And especially with autoimmunity, you know, we need that, that lubrication. And we need, to be able to produce those ketones, which cross the brain blood brain barrier, by the way, which is why we feel so much more clarity. And with Hashimoto's, you know, the brain fog and the fatigue, in my experience, that was the biggest that was the number one complaint and why people would come in for weight loss, because they did know that being obese or overweight was was creating fatigue.

Patients didn't really need to understand how it all works. But what we knew is that when we increase the healthy fats by adding nuts and avocados and olive oil, and I know your favorite and my favorite coconut oil, people felt better and they had more energy and they peeled off body fat faster. Absolutely. And then, of course, you know, what does that do for the skin for someone with Hashimoto's. So in your experience, I love to ask you because I'll just keep talking and talking and talking. But, you know, what do you see with your patients when they're experiencing loss of hair and dry skin and brittle nails, when you increase those healthy fats?

Absolutely. I mean, their skin starts glowing, you know, the dry skin goes away. You know, the hair starts regrowing, the hair all stops. Absolutely. You know, like fats are so much important. Not only they are anti-inflammatory, but they actually live with each and every cell of your body and we need them. So absolutely. Just cats are an essential part right. And along so inflammation and you just said the word the key really was at the at the end of the day, reducing inflammation I almost want to say solves all problems.

It may not solve all problems alone, but it is absolutely the number one first step to healing. In the presence of inflammation, we simply cannot heal. We just simply cannot. And so, lowering the carbohydrates, increasing the healthy fats, and then getting that adequate amount of protein again, the 70s and the 80s, remember the, the, vegetarian phase actually is like the junk food vegetarian craze of the 70s and 80s wreaked havoc. And I on on men and women, but particularly women. You know, I heard this statistic and I hope it's it's correct.

I'm not 100% sure, but I just heard that 20% of all women in America have zero dysfunction, and 10% of all men have thyroid dysfunction. Would you say that that's accurate? Yeah, definitely. For women, you know, like in the middle Ages. That's absolutely that is correct. And it is on the rise. And then interestingly, like in the last ten years, you know, the decade, what I am noticing is that more and more men are being diagnosed with it. Before, you know, it was exclusively like middle aged women, you know, would be the one who would be affected.

But somehow we are seeing the shift that more and more men are also being affected with Hashimoto's and thyroid disorders. So yeah. And so an a new a new development in functional medicine. And your, you know, your the, you know, the expert in functional medicine here is in genomics. And stem cells and things that you know I, I, I been out of my brick and mortar practice for a long time now. It feels like a long time since 2016. So that was not part of, of my approach in my diagnostics. But now I mean we, we just have so much more, information and so much more ability to, to really help people.

Absolutely. But, you know, like before that you know, you were saying that, you know, you had this patient, you know, Catherine, that you were able to heal Hashimoto's. Why don't you share that case study so that people are aware of like how it they know this approach can be so powerful? Yeah. This was my accidental Hashimoto's story because, and I just a beautiful couple. Catherine and her husband Patrick, came into my chiropractic and weight loss practice, and I know why they came in. They came in because the sign on the door said Chiropractic and weight loss.

It didn't say chiropractic in functional medicine or chiropractic. And whatever processes. Right. It said chiropractic and weight loss. And Catherine and Patrick walked in and I knew immediate well immediately when I looked at Catherine, that she was not feeling good at all, she had the very, classic appearance of a woman with Hashimoto's. She was probably 40 pounds overweight. Her skin was red and dry, and her hair was thin and brittle. She looked probably ten years older than she actually was at the time.

Doctor Gupta and her lovely husband, Patrick was a lot taller than her. They walked in together. He had his arm over her shoulder and she the look on her face was that that look of like, almost desperation, like wide eyed and like, Dear God, I hope something here is going to help me. So she came in for weight loss, sat down, did her intake on her health history form. Of course this is Hashimoto's. So noted right? Just noted. I applied the same ketogenic protocol and lifestyle for Catherine that I have many, many, many, many, many other patients like her and unlike her.

So it was the same protocol that I would apply to one of the yoga instructors across the way at the at the shopping center I was in, I applied the same protocol to soccer moms who came in. So we started with, you know, the same, the same approach, which I'll be sharing with you guys in a free gift I'm offering for you today, so you can actually have exactly what Catherine did. And we just started there. We did body composition analysis because I wanted to monitor, you know, how much body fat she was losing and how much muscle she was keeping.

But I didn't know labs back then. I left that to her medical doctor or her functional medicine practitioner. So Catherine lost 20 to 30 pounds right away and did that pretty easily. Thankfully, she had great support with her husband and then lost another 10 pounds. And when she would come in to the office, it was so satisfying to just see her feeling better, looking better, more energy, laughing, smiling. She was sleeping better so we knew everything was improving,

Case Study: Catherine's Hashimoto's Improvement 17:28

but I asked her to go in and get labs just to see, you know, what's going on. And surprise, surprise, not such a surprise. Her TSH was in normal range, so it was around three, which was extremely shocking. And surprising for her. And we just kind of like I said, you know, we don't treat Hashimoto's, right, but we just noted. Wow, look at that. What a massive improvement in your thyroid health. So, it was probably one of the most satisfying moments. And validating moments in my, in my career as a doctor was to just be able to see.

And this was back this was 2015. Doctor Gupta so if you were to go to an A forum conference back then, you'd probably not learn the ketogenic protocol, right? Not yet. As a matter of fact, again, the rhetoric at that time was low carbohydrate diets are dangerous for people with thyroid dysfunction. But we we learned what we learned and we did what we did. And when I never looked back. Absolutely. So why don't we kind of talk about like, you know, obviously a lot of people know what ketogenic diet.

I want to kind of share some mistakes, you know, common mistakes that you have seen people are making when doing a ketogenic diet. And then, you know, what might, you know, like, you know, derail their health instead of helping out. Yeah. Well, I think the biggest mistake people make and, you know, I'd love to hear, you know, your your experience with this too. I think one of the biggest mistakes that people make and when people would come in and they would say, oh, I've done the keto diet and that didn't work for me, I gained weight or I was on the keto diet and I went in to see my doctor.

My cholesterol was through the roof. That's dangerous. The first mistake that we see people make is they underestimate how much saturated fat they're having. So I would just tell my patients, I'm like, this is not the steak in bacon, bro diet, right? This is not bro keto. So no, not all the butter. No bacon, no thick fatty ribeye steaks. Right. So I think that's the first mistake, that people make. And I think the second mistake I have. Sorry. I'll just give you the, the top three I can think of our top of my head.

So the first one is they go on the steak and bacon diet. The bro keto diet. Number one, mistake number two, they tend to get very excited about how good they feel when they go into ketosis. Because when you go into ketosis now you're getting all of that fat, all of those fat calories right to your brain. Right? So yes, of course, energy source and people want to start working out, right. They want to start running or they want to start lifting heavy weights. And the amount the energy expenditure is, is, is way too high.

And what we now, in obesity medicine now is that exercise does not accelerate fat loss. Right. And so we would I would ask my patients to just dial back the exercise and think of it as movement and to stop using exercise to burn calories, because we don't want to burn all those calories with exercise. We want to use them for our brain. Right? And to heal our bodies. And then let's see, oh, the third mistake is not tracking what you're eating, because if if you're really not mindful and tracking how many grams of carbohydrate you're having, how many grams of fat you're having, and how many grams of protein you're having in the beginning until it becomes your lifestyle.

Because it's very counterintuitive. What will happen is people will be in ketosis and then out of it and then in it and then out of it. And so then energy is going up and down, hunger signaling is going up and down. And we're not we're not healing anything. We're actually creating more inflammation that way. So anything that you can do to reduce inflammation when you're you know, first adopting a ketogenic lifestyle is going to benefit you. Absolutely. Adding those are so important key things that you have mentioned over here.

And then another thing that you mentioned before was that going on very extreme low carbohydrate diets, right, because you need a little bit of carbohydrates. And people think that, you know, the more ketosis I go into, the the better it will be for me. So let me eliminate complete carbohydrates, which sometimes backfired for some of the people. So that was also another important point that you already shared before. So I think those are great mistakes that people I'm sure a lot of people, you know, when they start typing ketogenic diet or like, you know what, certain videos or, you know, information on Google that they should be aware of them.

So. Right. Yeah. Watch out for I right now. Right. Watch out for AI, not me, do I you're you're you're Hashimoto's protocol. Absolutely. So now let's switch gears because we do have a lot of practitioners, you know, like health practitioners also watching over here, you know, whether those are coaches, nutritionists, you know, or providers like me, and they want to know how to kind of you know, incorporate keep eating diet or other things, you know, into an online practice. So with, you know, obviously, your experience, you know, doing these things for such a long time, what will you say about that?

Yeah. Well, and I, I mentioned this to you, before we started recording this interview

Common Keto Mistakes to Avoid 22:48

that, you know, people can rip a page out of your success playbook. Doctor Gupta, because one of the things that you're doing is, is, is a key to client attraction, and that is to address the symptom that people are actually going to be looking for to solve. So as you and I were talking, you know, you're a functional medicine master. And when I was in my chiropractic practice, I was like, so excited about the physiology of fat loss that sometimes we can't see the forest from the trees. And we talked to our out there in our marketing.

We talked to our potential clients like their doctors. Right. So I love that this is the very obvious reversing Hashimoto's summit. It's not the functional medicine with Doctor Gupta summit, it's reversing Hashimoto's. So your ideal client is looking to reverse their Hashimoto's, right. So when I had my chiropractic practice, I said roughly chiropractic and weight loss. It didn't say lower inflammation. It was weight loss because that's what people want. And when I transitioned online, I needed to decide, okay, what's going to be my front door that will attract my ideal client will also not be practicing medicine without a license online because we go global when we're online, right?

We're we're working with people all over the world and so weight loss was the front door. It was actually my first time. It was called the Mindful Eating Conscious Living Virtual Summit. Oh amazing. Yeah. And by getting out there and speaking and what I say to my practitioners, Doctor Gupta is and here's another page out of your success playbook. People need to see you and hear you in order to hire you. And as practitioners, we want to hide over here getting another certification right and learning and learning and learning and getting better and better and better, thinking that if we just keep getting better at our skills, that will grow the practice.

And you and I had a, would you like to share something about that? We had a quick little chat about that philosophy and that approach right before we the interview. Well, I absolutely like, you know, when I was working at the Cleveland Clinic, you know, we saw like one of the most complicated cases and things. But that doesn't prepare me, you know, for opening up a practice that doesn't prepare me to kind of, you know, help more people out because I have to be in front of people, you know, like, only then I can help people now with a YouTube channel, like, you know, again, the goal is to share bite size information with them, which people can implement.

And that's that has been always my goal, because that is what people want. And that's what people, you know, like, can do. Also, not everybody can do like, you know, a very intense protocol, but at least if they can do a few things that will make them empowered, you know, feeling okay, they can make a change and they can feel better. So I think that's what, you know, I have learned and that's what I trying to do with the channel. And everywhere I'm sharing information is that giving that that, you know, a bite of that success where they can do it, give them something easy that they can do so that at least they can start making that change.

You know, as a matter of fact, I noticed that. And that's the third piece of, you know, success that I saw in you even this morning as I looked at your podcast and you had an eight minute training on reversing Hashimoto's, and you gave us a morning protocol, including a drink and an evening protocol, including a drink, and you did it in eight minutes. I listened to it while I was curling my hair. Doctor Gupta and I thought to myself, I'm going to go out and get some turmeric today. Like, I can go to the store and I can get those ingredients.

Using This Approach in an Online Practice 26:48

They're very simple. They're not hard. I don't have to go to five stores. I don't have to order anything online. And I could start doing that tonight. And so again, that's that is really important that we don't overwhelm our patients with too much teaching. The age of the expert is over. Like we're I don't know if you've heard this before. Maybe people need to hear this. We're in a trust economy. The people are already going to assume you're an expert if they see you speaking and if they see you on YouTube and they see you on summit there, and they have the right to expect that you're already an expert, right?

So we we need to spend less time trying to prove how much we know and spend more time serving them and meeting them where they're at. And I think you're doing a fabulous job. And I really like your podcast, by the way. Thank you so much. You know, like just sharing information. Just say you're doing a few things here and there. The goal is to like reach as many people because, you know, like if, you know, if we have the information, but we are not sharing with people, if we are not making an impact, then I think sometimes that, you know, we are doing a little bit of the service.

So that's very important that, you know, the more people we can help out, you know, that's the best use of our talent as well as the knowledge. Yes, yes. And you know, we talked about the democratization of functional medicine and health and wellness information and what you're doing by sharing everything that you're sharing on your podcast and on the summit is you are removing the gatekeeping that used to exist and still exists in Western medicine. And that is just not a philosophy that we hold in the the natural health and wellness space.

Absolutely. And I think you you are also sharing that you have this great training which is coming up for people, you know, like practitioners like me or anybody else who want to kind of understand this whole process because absolutely, it is very overwhelming. When I started it, you know, like the first year was one of the toughest years in my practice or in my career. So you are making it easier. So tell us more about the event that is coming up for you. And what are you going to do with it? Yes, yes, thank you for asking.

And I'm very excited about it because just like health and wellness, building online businesses is more confusing and overwhelming than ever because we have just so much available to us out there. So our practitioners are experiencing the same thing their patients are experiencing, which is overwhelm, overspending, and needing to spend too much time getting better and getting well, or creating that business, that they desire. So I also told your audience that I would give you the same protocol that Catherine had, that reversed her Hashimoto's on paper and allowed her to feel so much better and lose about 40 pounds of body fat.

So my free gift to you is the Eat Your Way happy, video series. So inside of the free gift, when you click on it, you're going to get a series of videos, and I'm going to show you from my own kitchen exactly what Catherine eight and what I would suggest you have. How many grams of protein, how many grams of carbohydrate, how many grams of fat? The entire protocol is in the eat your way happy free gift. And then, for those of you who are practitioners and health and wellness professionals, when you get the eat your way happy free gift, you also get the opportunity to get a $1 ticket to practitioners Palooza and Practitioners palooza is January 29th, 30th and 31st is all online, right?

So if you have a zoom account and you have a Wi-Fi signal, you can come right. So block your schedule off. It's Thursday, Friday and Saturday and it's just my philosophy. Doctor Gupta and I think that you and I are very much the same in this. I'm giving my practitioners and all of you that come to practitioners palooza, I'm giving you everything that has worked for me, works for the doctors that I coach, and it's only the needle movers. I only want you to learn and get and understand and be able to implement right away the things that are going to have the biggest impact and get you the furthest, the fastest.

Because honestly, we don't have any more time to waste. We don't have any more time to waste when we're reversing Hashimoto's and getting well, and we don't have any more time to waste when it comes to building our practices. And we can serve more people and serve ourselves by having financial freedom and time freedom, because practitioners deserve to be happy to. How do we do that? You know, and this is great. We have all of these links in the description. So if you missed by any chance, you know, like, you know, what Doctor Kelly was saying.

So all of these free gifts will be listed in the description. So please go and check it out.

Free Resources, Practitioner Event, and Closing Advice 31:48

Obviously that, you know, amazing resource or video series that she's talking about, which exactly shows you, you know what Catherine aid and like how you can plan your day according to that. That is always very, very empowering. And then obviously if you're a practitioner, you know, like or if you're thinking about like, you know, maybe helping more people out and becoming a coach, you know, or maybe helping your family around it. And if you want to see the practice around it, then I think that event is going to be awesome.

Because, you know, like she's going to share Exact blueprint, which is amazing. You know, she has been very generous of sharing so much information. So I really like about you that you're sharing so much clinical information, helping people out as well as, you know, like practitioners, you know, like with having them financial freedom. So that's amazing. And thank you so much for doing that. Oh thank you so much. And again, yes, practitioner palooza is for beginners and seasoned professionals. So everybody's welcome.

Absolutely. We can go on this discussion for a very very long time and things. But I think, you know, with the time constraints and stuff, what are you saying that you know, if there are some parting words for people who are joining us over here, parting words for you is if you're building an online business, don't get a puppy. This is, this is Sir Elton. He's eight months old, and I've been literally playing with him and feeding him and doing all kinds of things over here because, you know, of course, I think here's what I would say.

No matter what you're facing right now, if it's, you know, struggles with autoimmunity and Hashimoto's and thyroid dysfunction, make it a priority, make it the priority this year to address it completely and and commit yourself to it. Don't half way do it. That's what, one of the things I've learned about healing is halfway healing is zero healing. And the same thing with building your your your health and wellness business. Don't half way do it. Make a decision to go all in and make it happen and you have a lot of support.

You haven't had Doctor Gupta's support and you've had all of these speakers on the reversing Hashimoto's summit. And reach out for for help and support and coaching and invest in yourself because you are your only real asset. Absolutely. Those are so many wise words over here. So thank you for sharing that. And again, I will recommend people to go check out the resources that she has over here for you. There. Amazing. Will be so much helpful. And again, totally agree that go full em into and commit yourself.

You know, with this, you know, as, as you say, this is a new year we are entering into. So this is a time to committing yourself completely to whatever cause you are kind of trying to achieve, and you will get success. So thank you again for sharing these wise words, giving the, you know, hope to people that they can improve their disease process as well as also achieve the financial freedom, you know, for a lot of practitioners who are looking for it. So thank you again for doing that. Thank you, Doctor Gupta.

It's been a pleasure. Absolutely. So again, thank you guys for joining us. Please listen to this interview a couple of times. You know, you will learn the mistakes that you might be doing. And then plus, you know, a message of hope that you can get better and how to do it. Exactly. So thank you again. We will see you later in the next episode. The. Take care. Thank you.