Cannabis, Cancer and Pets: And Unconventional Approach for Healing

Introduction and Speaker Credentials 0:00

Hey, it's Nathan Crane, director of the Health and Healing Club and host of the Conquering Cancers Summit. And today, I am honored and excited to welcome you to a very special interview. Trina has earned her Doctor of Veterinary Medicine in 2006. She completed her small animal internship at Redbank Veterinary Hospital in New Jersey, and the three year residency in medical oncology at the Veterinary Oncology and Hematology Center in Connecticut. She's also completed the requirements to be a Certified Veterinary Chinese herbalist, which I think is pretty awesome.

A great skill set to have in your, tool bag, if you will. And doctor, has I developed an interest in cannabis medicine during her quest for finding effective integrative approaches for veterinary cancer patients. She's given numerous lectures to veterinarians, educating them on the topic of cannabis medicine for animals. Doctor Hussar is a co-founder and the president of the Veterinary Cannabis Society, and a member of the Society of Cannabis Clinicians, the Canadian Association of Veterinary Cannabinoid Medicine, and Veterinary Cancer Society.

The American College of Veterinary Internal Medicine, the American Holistic Veterinary Medical Association, and the California Veterinary Medical Association. So, you can trust what she tells us today. Her website is doctor, that's Dr. Trina, Amazon.com. Doctor. Thank you so much for joining us. Thank you for having me. It's really my pleasure. Yeah. So what was it? If you could share with us a little bit your backstory? What was it that kind of prompted you to transition from being, what we might call conventional veterinarian to an integrative vet?

It's a great question. You know, I think that during my residency while I was training, I, I always started looking into other modalities. I would ask my mentor. Well, how about hyperbaric oxygen? You know, for our radiation patients that aren't having appropriate healing? Or how about this mushroom supplement to use along with chemo? And he would say, look, you're focusing on medical oncology. This is what your residency is. Focus on this and then you can look into it down the road. And so and you know, I, I appreciated that because I got to learn all the details of cancer biology and all the things I needed to become a board certified oncologist.

But I always kind of had that, that push behind me to do more. And I felt that the conventional oncology wasn't enough. So I moved from Connecticut to Los Angeles, California. And thank goodness for that. Not just for the weather, but also because the clientele here were also very much interested in having some other additional

From Conventional Oncology to Integrative Veterinary Medicine 2:51

alternative type approaches or integrative approaches. And so that was really kind of my jam, right? I really was interested in it. And so were the clients. And that really pushed me to say, you know, after probably practicing for, I would say 4 or 5 years of mostly conventional and, you know, drizzling a little of the some of the integrative approaches, it wasn't enough. I felt like Khan was there more I could do? Could I, you know, prolong resistant mechanisms, meaning could I keep cancer patients on chemo longer and making it work longer?

Could I reduce some of those morbidities that they were getting or, you know, side effects they were getting with chemo and radiation and some of these other traditional modalities by incorporating some other type of therapies like cannabis and Chinese herbal medicine and Western herbs and medicinal mushrooms and other modalities. And so the answer was, well, I first needed to get educated. I'm a big nerd where I felt like I had to learn everything about every subject before I really started practicing it, right?

So after I had finishing the residency in medical oncology, after a few years, I was like, I think I should learn everything I can about Chinese herbal medicine before I start implementing it. So I went to the XI Institute and got certified in Chinese herbal medicine and literally like just started using it. In all my cases, the folks that were interested in implementing it, and I saw such tremendous differences in quality of life and in some cases quantity as well, and so much better. You can share a little bit about some of those case studies that really stand out to you.

I can tell you, you know, you always remember the first, right? Yeah, I always remember the first. So, this was a case that it was a dog. It, a Shetland sheepdog, that had transitional cell carcinoma of the bladder. So that's the most common bladder cancer that dogs get. And this dog was really starting to have side effects of the chemo. And one of the side effects of this poor pet was having secondary to the progression of its cancer, as well as one of the therapeutics, non-steroidal as it started to develop some, some kidney disease.

And it stopped eating, he just she wouldn't eat. She wouldn't want to do. She really wasn't even walking over to her food anymore. The owner was really struggling to get any food into this poor dog. And so she she called me and said, listen, I think it's time. And I said, would you let me at least just try? We've tried all of the traditional anti-nausea and appetite stimulants and nothing was working. So we just come back and let me try one of the Chinese herbs. I learned all about this I really want to see.

I'm hopeful this will work. And so I said, give me three days. If after three days of trying this herb, there's no improvement, then I of course support your decision. So she brought her in and I did an evaluation. And based off of my Chinese herbal, exam, I confirmed that she had what they call a yin deficiency. And so I was able to supplement her yin with this particular, Chinese herb that would help support her kidneys. And I also put her on something to help with what they call a spleen qi deficiency, which is what was actually playing a role in preventing her from eating.

So she. I said, just try these two herbs. Let's just see. Two and a half days. I mean, we were almost at that third day, two and a half days later, I later I get a phone call that says, you're not going to believe this doctor is, she's eating, I'm eating, she's going for walks again, and I, I and I had stopped everything else. It was just those two herbs. And she was happy she was playing. I mean, it was just like this transformation from a dog that she thought she was going to have to put down to a dog that was again eating and playing and and just enjoying life again.

And I and I, I, I almost didn't believe it. I said, sir, wait, there's really something to this. And, And God, she must have gone on for about three months until it was her time. And, three months. To someone that just adores and loves their pets like a family member is so much time. Especially when it was quality time. And I've had many more of those cases, you know, for the additional five, six years of my practicing Chinese herbs, along with, with conventional therapy. And it just feels so good inside that I wasn't I wasn't in a place to say, you know what?

I have nothing else to offer. I had something else to offer. I continue to have something to offer. And that just felt really good to all of us that were around watching that case and the many other cases, you know, that that that occurred. Yeah, I can I can, appreciate the level of, gratitude and grace that I'm sure you experienced with that case and many others, especially now knowing that you have,

Early Chinese Herbal Medicine Success Stories 7:50

you know, some natural therapeutics that you can, you can implement when maybe all else has failed or is not working. Right. And you know that you're not only potentially prolonging life and quality of life, but also reducing the pain and suffering, because these often have little or no side effects whatsoever and can increase quality of life and decrease pain and suffering. Right? So, I mean, I know the power of the Chinese herbs and, and, for humans, you know, but it's always interesting to hear someone like yourself speak about it for, for our pets as well.

Yeah. Yeah. Same same with cats, right. Like cats. They can be so picky when there's such a deficiency. And and you give them the right herbs. They actually almost want it. They come for it. You know, once they start feeling more balanced, you realize we all know inside of our bodies, when we feel balanced, right? We know it, animals know it. And it's interesting to watch how their behavior changes when they start to feel more balanced. Is there is there some herbs in general that, for general health and longevity you have found to be effective for dogs and for cats?

Is it same or different herbs? Are there a couple you can share with us? Yeah. So, I'm a big, big believer in trying to support a pet's immune system, without a doubt. And there's a combination of Western herbs and Chinese herbs. One of the ones I use because I was changed, I was trained at the Tree Institute is what they call a weight booster. And why I love that one is so many. I would say almost all of my cancer patients are deficient in energy, and that could very well be one of the reasons behind the formation of cancer is that there amuses them, just isn't at high alert anymore.

Right. And so mutations occur and the immune system can't catch them before it turns into cancer. And so a lot of times these patients are older, they're more fatigued. They don't have the energy. And the flow of energy is is is also stagnant. So there's kind of a two pronged approach that I use a lot of with a lot with my cancer patients. One is supporting the immune system heavily with with Chinese herbs, Western herbs, medicinal mushrooms, and one of the herbs is she booster to support the, the immune system and support she because again they're oftentimes deficient energy.

And then the second is really to try to open up flow and break down stagnation stages, because that also is potentially the is kind of the the background behind why cancer can form into this. What we say starts off as phlegm and turns into stagnation and stasis. And so finding a way to open up blood and chee and allowing that to flow significantly better is a big part. And then I think some of the art of it, too, is figuring out what transporter is to use, right? Depending on where the cancer is located, perhaps we can push some of those anti-cancer herbs toward a certain area in the body and really opening up channels there, incorporating acupuncture.

Here's in this as well, and in improving quality and quantity, I think as well. Quality for sure. We have pets that just get so sick from chemo and herbs and cannabis isn't it doesn't work enough. And sometimes incorporating acupuncture can make all the difference. So it's really a combination of a variety of different, modalities I think, that support the pet, just like you would for a person. Yeah. Do you have some, I mean, it's it's fascinating to think about, giving our pets, you know, the same kinds of herbs.

These are same kinds of herbs that we would take as humans, right? Yeah. Yeah, we oftentimes I order from evergreen. Right. Just the same herbs that you probably use and I've used before. We just dose them differently. Right. You don't give six capsules, right? Maybe they just get three for a big dog twice a day or four. You know, depends on the size. So it's certainly I think the biggest challenge in pets is how do you get the herbs into them. Right. So with us we just say like okay, it's going to taste like crap, but I'm going to take it and I know it's and you feel the difference, right?

I mean, we've all I've certainly been on tons. And Gary and I had this conversation on a regular basis about how many supplements we're both taking. Right. And so we are true believers in it, and we practice what we preach, but it's easier to convince ourselves it's the right thing and we just make it with something tastier. We move on for a dog and even more so for a cat. How do you do it? And I think it's it's the art of how do you trick your animal when sometimes they are not smarter than we are sometimes. Right?

And so how do you and getting it in really tasty, tasty food and tuna fish and baby food and peanut butter. And you know, the joke at the at the hospital at my department is you always know which patients are doctors as patients because they're almost all a little bit overweight. And that's because the ones that are on tons of Chinese herbs and supplements are getting them with peanut butter balls and, and cookies and this and that. So they're all ignoring like it's really not the worst thing. They're cancer patients.

And so the right like, you know, rather than be a little overweight and underweight. So absolutely. So do you do you have any case studies that you can share even any anecdotal studies, where you've worked with a dog or a cat and they had some form of cancer. And through an integrative approach, you were actually able to completely stop the proliferation of the growth of that cancer or reverse it completely. Yeah, yeah. No, I absolutely do. Let me see which one. God. Right. There's so many. Let's see.

I'm trying to think of one that I oftentimes well, can I, can I give you two because I can't there's two good ones, right. Yeah, absolutely. So one of them is a, was a Jack Russell terrier that came to me with three different types of cancer, an oral tumor in back of its jaw called squamous cell carcinoma. A bladder tumor called transitional cell carcinoma that we already just talked about. And then an indolent or less aggressive lymphoma.

Immune Support, Energy, and Herbal Strategies 14:04

So blood cancer, right. Lymph node cancer. And so, the owner came to me and said, look, we want to do what we can, but he's an older guy. We don't want to go crazy. What if we just did some surgery to remove this tumor in the mouth and remove the bladder tumor, and then we can start on what they call a targeted therapy, something that targets the mutations that are telling the cancer to go out in the growth factors. So we said let's let's do that and let's add an let's let's start with that and see how it goes.

So we did that in about six months later the tumor came back in the mouth with a vengeance and as well in the bladder a little bit. But the mouth was horrific where the dog could not even see the tumor had crawled all the way up its mandible toward the back of its eye, and he was unable to see from that one eye, and he could hardly open and close his mouth. So they came to me and said, look, things are worse. I think we we don't want to do radiation. We don't want to do chemo still. We just want to focus on quality.

Is there anything you can do? You can offer? And I said, you know, why don't we try cannabis? There's some published information on carcinomas responding to cannabinoid therapy. Here is a ratio I would consider a based off of the research. And I do not think he's going to get sick if we started at appropriate dosage, we use a formulation that's safe without contamination. And, you know, and, and pesticides and things like that. So we moved forward with cannabis and the owners wanted to continue with the targeted therapy.

They said, let's just do both so we can combine both and within what is the sorry. Before you share that, which I really want to hear. What what was the targeted therapy? You were doing it at the time. It's called it's called Palladium two. Sarah NIB is the generic name in palladium as the trade name. Very. It's the only FDA approved targeted therapy for pets. And it's been out for I would say, but 15 years or so at this point. Palladium. So is that is it a chemical compound? Is it a drug? Is it a nutritional therapeutic?

It's a drug. It's a it's a pharmaceutical. It's a. And so you so you were doing that after the surgery, correct. And nothing else. No herbs? Anything else? Nope. Nothing. And then and then and then it came back with a vengeance into a came back. So now you're still doing that drug, but now you're doing cannabis. Yeah. And I think we I think they wanted to hold on herbs or something like that initially and said, let's just do one thing. I think of the dog maybe was picky or whatever it was. There's always a reason behind why someone chooses what they choose.

So we started the cannabis, at that ratio, it was a 1 to 1 ratio, THC to CBD and a very small dose. This is the most interesting part of the whole thing for me as a scientist is it was one milligram of THC and one milligram of CBD. That's it per day. Twice a day, twice a day, twice a day. But that was the dose, right? One milligram. Yeah. That's it. That's a tiny amount. That's it. Tiny amount. But within about a month, the tumor was significantly small. Wow. Right. And and they didn't start anything else.

Finally I said you got to come in and have me look. They came in. I could barely find the tumor in the dog's mouth. The only thing I did was add one milligram of each compound and on to the police. So then I look back as a scientist. I think there's got to be synergy. When I first went down this path of synergy and went crazy for every single tumor, combining all these, and honestly, I didn't see it work as well for any other tumor. And I couldn't even replicate it for the same tumor in a cat. It was just this particular tumor, this particular tumor genetics that seemed to work so well with this combination therapy.

I mean, it responded beautifully. So then to here, this is the crazy part of it. So then probably dog was on it for several months and the owner forgot to reorder. Two weeks pass, the tumor comes back, I double the dose. I couldn't stop it. And he got some radiation to keep him comfortable. And then he passed away. All right so it's you. What a story. Yeah. And quality I mean you should see the pictures. One picture of him barely able to open his eye and his mouth to actually make sure the owner was sending me these pictures.

He's at the he's at the beach with a ball in his mouth, and both eyes look totally normal. He's running up and down the beach. I mean, that's why we do what we do in veterinary medicine, right? To see that like that. Happy, happy. And his name was Hammer Leto was that I had that one. So nice. He was a special guy. And then so that was one case. The other case is a dog that's still doing very well, knock on wood. He came to me with metastatic salivary gland carcinoma, meaning that he had, a tumor in the back of his throat, a salivary gland that was, affected by a carcinoma and adenocarcinoma, and it actually spread to a local lymph node, and possibly there was a nodule in the lung, and he was had blood coming from his nose.

I mean, he was a really sick, sick guy. And the the general of the, internal medicine doctor sent me the case and said, listen, I'm not sure how much how much time he has, but can you help them? So I said, yeah, I mean, this is I'm I'm here to offer all the options. Let's see what we can find that works. And most most important is let's get him comfortable. Right. So this is a case where I implemented Palladio again.

Cancer Case Studies with Cannabis and Targeted Therapy 19:48

Right. That was a great one for certain carcinomas. And the these are owners that weren't wanting to do, you know, high doses of chemotherapy. And to be honest with you, I don't believe that chemotherapy would have worked any better. That's what I'm going to say. That again, I do not believe chemotherapy would have worked any better in many of these cases. So I never look back and think I should have done anything differently because I done the chemo for so many years before and didn't see the results I was seeing with this.

Right. And the benefit is they got to take this pill, this targeted therapy at home with a peanut butter tree. They're not coming in and getting a catheter place. So quality of life was already better with the way we were implementing that therapy. We started about 3 or 4 different Chinese herbs, medicinal mushrooms we added in curcumin, to help with inflammation. We added in, and then of course we added in cannabis. I say of course, because that's, that was that's certainly a very big area of my of interest for me.

And so we added cannabis again, I was hoping for this synergistic approach with all of these molecules perhaps additive with some and other synergistic. And so within about a month or so, the bleeding from the nose stopped completely. The owner said, My God, he's not sneezing anymore. He's starting to breathe. Even better. Yeah, node in the neck started to go down and we're now, oh my God, we have to be close to three years out. And he I saw him about a month or so ago and he looked wonderful. It's lymph node was totally normal.

He does not have any. There's no lung tumors at all in his chest. There's no obvious recurrence of his disease. Currently, he's on a very low dose of Palladio. We had tapered down. We didn't taper off of it. We tapered down on the and the minimal amount of palladium. And he's on all the Chinese herbs and on cannabis at fairly high levels of THC. He's actually on a THC dominant product where he's on more THC and CBD, which you rarely hear out there. But there is something in that combination that is kept him going and feeling so good for as long as he has.

Well, in three years it sounds like, I mean, it could be a lot in a human's life, depending where they're at in their life, but doesn't sound like a lot in a dog's life. That's a lot of years, right? That's, depending on the age, I don't know what. And another ten, 12, 15 years maybe added to the to the life. Yeah. Yeah. Exactly. Yeah. It's amazing. Yeah. So how important. So talking about cannabis how important is that 1 to 1 ratio in terms of, you know, a therapeutic dose of cannabis THC and CBD blend versus just CBD or just THC.

Great question. I, I think it has to do with the type of cancer. And if you I'm hesitant because I truly believe that once we understand the genetics of the cancer and the the ability for it to express certain receptors, cannabinoid receptors and orphan receptors and secondary receptors that cannabis, the the compounds within the cannabis plant work on. You'd have a very good idea of if this tumor is going to respond to THC or is it going to respond to CBD. The generic oh, it's a 1 to 1, which is by the way, where we were years just a few years ago where cancer should be on I wonder I that's I don't necessarily agree with that.

Look at the second case I told you is on a 30 to 1 THC to CBD and I wouldn't ever, reverse it for that dog because he's still here with a metastatic tumor. The first case was a 1 to 1, and that was the magical combination for that one. There are other dogs that are on a CBD dominant product 20 to 1, 12 to 1, whatever it may be. And still doing excellent. Responding well. And it's the CBD molecule probably doing more of the heavy lifting. And there's so many other compounds. I mean, CBD is a really important compound because that one is kind of a new fad for so many reasons.

But from a cancer standpoint, I think CBG is going to do a lot of the heavy lifting for us. A CBG CBD blend with a little THC might be magical. Specifically for certain tumors that have, you know, what they call a trip mate, overexpression, because it's a pretty strong their potent antagonist at that trip made. And it should be made as overexpressed in prostate as one of the big ones, breast cancers, other carcinomas as well. But prostate is a really big one. So if I were to put together formulations for certain tumors, I would go off of what we know as their typical kind of receptor expression.

But I think it's going to be based on so much more than that, that specific tumor and that specific person. Not all tumors are not all carcinomas are not all prostate carcinomas in dogs or people are going to express the exact same, levels of, of, of receptors or maybe inherently in that person. They're endocannabinoids system is grossly different. Yours Nathan, is going to be different than my system. And that might mean I might need a lot more THC than yours, because you have a lot of endocannabinoids floating around.

Right. And that's the same thing for our patients, I think, with multiple comorbidities, these dogs that have lots of issues, you may need to really work a little harder to really balance their system than a dog that may not have other issues. So it's not going to be as easy as use this compound for this or this ratio for that. But I think as more research goes on, we're going to get a better handle on that. I really do is the research showing for for animals, cats and dogs specifically, that it's completely safe CBD and THC combined at pretty much any of the levels that you spoke about already there is there are very few studies on on high amounts of THC.

Right. There's only one study out of Canada that showed that dogs actually, they tolerated the high amounts of CBD way better than the high amounts of THC. I mean, that's pretty well known, right? I mean, that would be any human being that would also be in that situation. The other kind of issue with that study, and I think a lot of times you have to really look into the study design itself is the way the study did it is they would give a dose and they wait three days later and then give a higher dose and then give three days.

And so you're not building up true tolerance, right? Where in a dog. Right. Or when I'm treating a patient, they're very gradually going up and we titrate the dose. So for instance, this last dog that I mentioned that's on very high amounts of THC, that dog is probably close to 40mg of THC twice a day, which is significant. If you or I took that, we would be sleeping. And this dog is running around like a puppy because it's taken to, you know, year and a half, two years to really get up to that dose.

And it's been a gradual increase. So I think in my experience, THC is extremely well tolerated when dosed appropriately and titrated appropriately. It's not perfect for every single pet. Some pets can't go over a certain amount, regardless of titration. They have a little bit of urinary incontinence or or whatever it may be. So you just listen to their bodies, just like we would listen to our own bodies and adjust the dose accordingly. Others need a lot more to balance their system. So based off of the the animal research, I would say we have a lot of information out there showing that CBD is super safe.

It has been shown to be safe and extremely high doses. THC back in the 80s was published at 3000mg/kg and there was no lethal dose even at that dose. So I believe yes, it's safe, but for more bilities sake, we don't want our pets staring off at walls for hours and not wanting to go for walks and sleeping. We want to make sure that they're happy. I don't I'm not worried about a pet passing away. If they are significantly overdose on THC, they have the potential to aspirate and get pneumonia because they can't swallow properly.

And in cases like that, if your pet is ever in that situation by mistake, you gave too much. You gave a human product that was way too concentrated. Bring your dog in or your cat into a veterinary hospital and have them evaluated and kept overnight and supported appropriately. But most of the cases of THC overdose, most of them resolve within sometimes 12 hours, sometimes a day and a half or so. My own cat ended up getting too much, and he just stared off for a little bit for six hours, and by the seventh hour he was up and walk in and totally fine.

So it's just supporting them through what I think is important and realizing they just need a little bit of support and care. But many of them don't need to be rushed to the hospital. Only in very severe cases. Yeah, yeah, it, reminds me, I cycle on and off CBD and it's really high CBD and very, very low to almost no THC and mostly for anti-inflammatory and sleep and things like that. And, you know, in my own self, when I cycle on it, I might take it for a month, a couple months at a time. Right.

And and my tolerances, I mean, I when I haven't taken it for when I take a few weeks off and then I take a dose of it, I mean, I notice it right away, like I'm just out cold for like eight hours straight and, and for, you know, I'll notice it

Cannabis Dosing, Safety, and Tolerance in Pets 29:38

significantly for the next few weeks as I'm cycling on it. But then the tolerance starts to build. Right? And then so after a couple months, I'll cycle off it for a couple weeks at a time. And it's, you know, as your body obviously adapts, to the dosage, you're going to respond differently, right? So, and all the research I've seen as well, at least for humans, I mean, you can take massive amounts of CBD and THC without any major complications. Of course, you know, you don't want to overdo it, overdose it.

There's no point in that. You're not going to get any real benefit from that. But, in terms of diet and nutritional supplementation, Chinese herbs and cannabis, CBD, THC, how important is it? That pet owners not only supplement with what you're talking about, but also really take a look at the diet and what are some of the foundational principles of the diet for dogs and cats that, the that you teach, that you work with? You, you definitely hit it on the head. Yeah. You can't it's it's I always say, like, you spend all this time and money and sacrifice, you're doing all these amazing herbs and supplements, but then you're feeding McDonald's like a McDonald's here and there isn't going to kill you.

But the daily benefits, all and all of that stuff, I hope, is not listening. But, you know, I just I worry very much about that. The carcinogens in those dry foods over time, what they do to the body. And you're working so hard to to create this antioxidant effect and that you're putting in pro carcinogens. Right. And so I very, very much worry about it. So for a lot of my patients, I guess I would say it depends on what they're coming to me for. So there are some patients that will, I'll see that are really toward the end.

And they're, we're looking for more palliative care. Right. And, and meaning they're looking for more comfort care. And this is a patient that really isn't eating well already. And we're looking to reduce inflammation. Keep them comfortable until the end. And we may only have weeks or months left in those cases I have them eat whatever they'll eat I it doesn't matter to me, I say, if your cat will eat fancy feast, but that will help you get the herbs and things and let's do it. If your pet will only eat hot dogs, then that's what we're going to do.

For now, just try to get organic. No nitrate products. But but sometimes it is what it is, right? And they are just getting food into them because it's more important they're eating for the cases that are coming to me for what they called more definitive intent. And I use that term meaning there's a chance that we can get years out, right. We're going to get very many months or years out. We're looking for more of a longevity then, absolutely. The conversation of food comes up and usually it comes up first before I even sometimes implement any of these other modalities.

We talk about how do we get your dog or cat off of the food that they're currently on, get them on a higher quality food that doesn't have a bunch of fillers. It isn't the first ingredient isn't corn or rice or, you know, we're looking for a whole food diet. Something that is, you know, oftentimes in my cases, if they're on chemo or some sort of therapy that's suppressing their immune system, I don't necessarily want them on raw food. Just for the sake of their immune system's already suppressed.

So we'll, I'll oftentimes use gently cooked foods or, or foods that have been cooked in a human grade kitchen that they can pick up or make themselves a homemade diet. And we, we actually choose the protein based off of their, their, their element, their Chinese herbal element. So if you have in a lot of the cases I see there, they run very, very hot to they oftentimes will have that yin deficiency. And so putting them on chicken is the worst thing because chicken is actually really heat producing.

And so one time when we start to switch over the food to things like turkey or a white fish, that's a lot more cooling for their system. Owners will say, hey, God, I notice they're they're not panting as much. They seem to be more comfortable. They're not just always laid across a freezing cold marble floor. You know, they're now comfy on their beds. And we've taken a lot of those white enriched kind of grains out that produce heat, like white rice or potatoes and things like that, and put in things like quinoa or sweet potatoes and, and other things that really support the immune system.

But also support the patient's, heat and cold status as well. Right. And then, of course, we talk about vegetables in which vegetables, what would be the best things like cruciferous vegetables, ones that are full of flavonoids. And have really profound anti-inflammatory, antioxidant properties. And we go through fish oils, omega threes, and how important that is and how it can help work, help the cannabinoids actually work even better and, help with inflammation. So we really go through this full, I would say, I don't know, a percentage, maybe 20, 25 percentage percent of my consults sometimes is on food.

Yeah. Yeah. It's it's that important, right? I mean, that's why we call these other things supplements because they should be supplementing our core diet both in humans and in our pets, because that's where we're getting majority of our nutrition or lack of nutrition is from the food. Right. So, as we kind of wrap up here, I have, kind of an interesting question I want to ask you in all of your, you know, time training and learning and researching specifically around cannabis, what is maybe one of the most shocking things you've learned about, can I get cannabis for our pets that you didn't originally know?

What was something that just kind of, like, blew your mind? That was that maybe all of our pet owners should know about cannabis? I think, honestly, I think the biggest thing that I would tell pet owners is that THC isn't scary. I mean, that is the biggest thing that I find that I'm educating on on a regular basis, pet owners and veterinarians, I'm talking about, a lot of times I'll speak with pet owners that will say, I only want the good one. And I say, which one's a good one? I think it's the CBD.

And I say, actually, they could all be really good, but it's just how you give it, right? And so I think, the biggest thing I would say from an education standpoint is THC is not bad, if anything, for our cancer patients. THC over CBD can increase appetite, can reduce pain to a level that CBD can't even touch. Right. It doesn't mean that I think they should all be on THC. Absolutely not. I think CBD has a very, very, very big home. And pet care. Tremendous. I think a little bit of THC for certain cases and a lot more

Diet, Nutrition, and Practical Pet Care 36:38

and other cases could make such a big difference when you use a product that's a CBD only product, what we call an isolate, you might only get two here. When you add in just a little bit of THC, you get to hear and it doesn't necessarily cause toxicity. When again dosed appropriately, there are very few cases that I would ever say be careful when using THC. And the number one case I would say to be worried is a dog or a cat with severe severe heart disease. Those are the ones I would just be careful because THC has the potential to, at reasonable doses, to cause an increased heart rate and may even cause an arrhythmia.

So we want to just be careful. But the ones that have mild heart disease I'm not worried about at all. We've used them for hundreds of cases and a knock on wood have all done fine. And the research certainly hasn't supported that causing any issues thus far. What are those? What are those dose ranges. So generally, I mean, you got it's a tough question because it depends on the age of the pet. Right. Everything is it's it's not a it's not cookie cutter. Every day I base everything off of, the age of the pet, the weight of the pet, and the owner's goals.

And that's how I determine my dose. And so what I would probably say is, for any pet parent out there that's interested in implementing cannabis, I would go to our website. We have a nonprofit. It's the first veterinary cannabis nonprofit ever, in the US, that it's called Veterinary Cannabis Society. VCs dot pet is the website. It's the first nonprofit is a 501 C3 organization focused on really raising the awareness of cannabis for medicine. And our mission for VCs is to create lasting solutions that it really ensure the safe use of cannabis in pets.

And we do that through education, through advocacy and promoting product standards. So you're not the hope is you don't just buy something that's not been regulated appropriately. We would love to be that hub, that site where people can come for non-judgmental, open minded, and really, expertise, really expert information from the top cannabis experts in the country, both veterinary and human, where you can get education and learn a little bit more about the advocacy efforts so we can really keep our our pets and patients safe.

Beautiful. Yeah, I just pulled it up on my on my screen over here. Veterinary Cannabis society.org or the short URL. You said VSC dot pet right? Yes. Stop pet bse dot pet not.com. That pet I love it. It's nice. Yeah it looks like you're doing amazing work there.

Key Takeaways and Veterinary Cannabis Society 39:28

So thank you for that. And yeah, thank you so much for your time and for the great work you do. I you know, this has been super helpful for me as a, as a pet owner and to think about, you know, the health and longevity of my own dogs and our cat and, and, you know, I think people tuning in, got some great, feedback from this and hopefully some, some insights and some tools that you can take to help, your, your loved ones and your family or pets to live longer and healthier. So, Doctor Herzog, thank you so much for your time, for all the work you do and for for sharing all this with us.

Really appreciate it. Thanks for having me on. I really enjoyed it, and I want to thank everyone for tuning in to the Conquering Cancer Summit. Please share this with friends and family. Together we truly can make a difference for the future of humanity in ending the cancer pandemic. Thank you and I wish you ultimate health and happiness. Be well.