Clean Carnivore And The Case For Animal-Based Nutrition

Introduction to Carnivore and Heart Health 0:00

the stories that you hear online about a carnivore diet, which sounds crazy. I thought it was crazy too when I first tried it. To go from a PETA-supporting, loving, plant-based person to say, I'm going to eat meat because if I can't take care of my own self and my children, how am I going take of the animals that I also love? that that was such a hard pill to swallow and now I realize I can do good in this world and then take care of animals if I want to. Whereas if before you know with all the monocropping and stuff you end up killing a lot more animals.

But I think that there are so many people that then find healing on a carnivore diet and so that's why they stay. Welcome to the Natural Heart Doctor show. I'm cardiologist Dr. Jack Wolfson. Heart problems don't come from a drug deficiency. They come root causes where cardiologists never look. On this show, I sit down with experts who challenge the mainstream rhetoric and talk about what actually builds a heart built to last. Get ready for a dose of cardiac longevity. back everyone to another episode inside of the Heart Attack and Stroke Prevention Summit, where our goal is to bring the experts worldwide on the best ways to prevent a heart attack or stroke, which obviously is a major concern for a lot of people.

That's why you're here and that's I brought an expert in nutrition and her name is Judy Cho and Judy and I have known each other for a while and known of each others work and we've interviewed each and thought she would be absolutely perfect to bring back here. She is a certified nutritional therapy practitioner and holds a psychology and communications degree from the University of Cal Berkeley. Judy is the host of a health and nutrition podcast called Nutrition with Judy. And she's got the bestselling book called The Carnivore Cure.

So I spilled the beans here, Judy, we're going to be talking about carnivores as it relates to cardiovascular disease. And people just follow Judy and she has a fantastic website as well. Judy, welcome to this summit on the heart attack and stroke prevention. Yeah. Thanks for having me. I'm excited to talk about all things carnivore, how it can actually reduce the risk of cardiovascular disease, even though that is so not what we are told in mainstream media and just traditional healthcare, I guess.

But I am excited talk all about things. All right. Let's jump right into it. What is carnivore and why does it work for cardiovascular disease prevention? Maybe without making any disease claims. I guess we can or cannot, but I mean, with that being said, I know one of your big focuses is how do we lower down inflammation and oxidative stress and how does carnovore do that? So give me those couple of things. Carnivores, what is it in carnival and inflammation? Why it's a great choice. Sure, sure.

So carnivore at the root of it is just all animal-based products.

How Carnivore Reduces Inflammation and Oxidative Stress 2:51

It's everything from land, sea, and water. Ideally, you can eat all things, including then the products of, for example, like eggs and dairy, if it makes sense for you and if works. And so it's nothing that comes from the plant kingdom. no seasonings, no plants, not vegetables, nor fruits. And in our practice, we specifically use it as an elimination diet tool so that we can see, is there something beyond the diet that is causing chronic illness? So can there be mold? Can there chronic Lyme? can be infectious disease?

Or maybe it's some of the mind-body work, some other nervous system dysregulation. But if we could quiet the body and the system by reducing the noise from foods or franken foods, or ultra processed foods that are consuming, that is causing low-grade inflammation in our body, then that would be an ideal way to sort of detect is it food or is that some of our dietary uses that are causing some our illness. And if you look at modern disease, so diabetes, metabolic syndrome, heart disease. A lot of these things didn't really exist before.

Type 2 diabetes which is one of the biggest comorbidities for heart used to be called adult onset diabetes, and now it's just diabetes because even children get it. And a lot of the root cause of these illnesses or diseases is because of chronic low-grade inflammation or systemic inflammation and oxidative stress. So let's talk about those things. I think where carnivore is so powerful is it reduces a systemic, low-grade inflammation. I love talking about our toxin bucket. And so the goal would be that if your bucket is lowered with any toxins that are affecting you, including diet, certain injections we get or certain things that make us unwell, if we could reduce the noise, then you will feel better.

The way that I think carnivore really works is by reducing that noise, by removing processed foods, removing seed oil. So seed oils are not a natural oil and they are made from, so for example, canola oil is made form a rapeseed plant which is toxic to human consumption. Then they basically do all of this sciencey, chemically stuff so that we can't smell that it's rancid, we cant smell anything and then they deodorize it, they bleach it. And so they make this really toxic oil for us Because it's not a saturated fat, they started using it, but that oil, when it comes into our system, it is very unstable and that instability in our body then causes oxidative stress.

So the oils are starting to try to pull electrons from your system and it just causes a lot of that oxidated stress and then the inflammation or that low-grade inflammation from it. If you can remove processed foods, any foods that are GMO or unnatural and has a lot of those herbicides and pesticides because again, those things also cause inflammation in your body. And as you eat a carnivore diet, you can reduce some of that noise in that cup or the toxin bucket. As you reduce it, there will be less stress on your bodies.

So one, it will reduce your insulin resistance. By just removing carbohydrates in general, even if that wasn't the core root cause of why you have blood sugar dysregulation or insulin resistance, it will by reducing your carb load or your sugar load, or you're glycemic load that will then reduce the need for insulin or the knee for your pancreas to release insulin. And so by really reducing that, then there's less strain on your heart, there is less inflammation. So that's one. Then if you are able to better regulate your blood sugars, they will support your sex hormones, which If your blood sugar is not regulated and insulin's not working enough, then cortisol has to come and save the day.

And then there goes your skin health, your sex hormone health your, sex drive, all the things that will just make you function and be vibrant as a human. Basically, carnivore, we can talk about all these different mechanisms, but even with mitochondrial health. If you are a sugar burner, you're body does not know how to use fatty acids and ketones as energy. But if you can shift from, maybe after breakfast you have like a small fruit, But if you can shift from using glucose and then also using ketones, then you will have more energy and more access to energy.

And then if your able to also eat the richness in a carnivore diet that has an abundance of nutrients, you'll have iron for example, and you need iron and create these which you can get mostly from meats. But if you could have more iron, then you have oxygen that is circulating the body. And it's just overall, it is just a reduced risk and stress on the heart. Well, that's an awesome tie in as far as all the kind of cardiometabolic issues. Talk about a clean carnivore versus go to Burger King and order a double whopper, hold the bun.

What is the difference here? What do you and your family eat in your household? Yeah, so the ideal obviously is to eat animals that are living in their natural state. So if you think about humans and we get sick because stress and stressors occur and then that will cause more insulin resistance,

Clean Carnivore vs Processed Meat 7:54

that's where we will turn to more foods and will gain more weight. fat cells in itself can be inflammatory to the body and then cause even more insulin resistance. So if you're eating an animal that's not on their most natural diet, you will be eating some of that stressors too and some other toxins and the chemicals that they've been exposed to. I still think it's safer than, let's say, eating GMO foods or GMOs plants. But in an ideal world, then you want to get more of the grass-fed, grass finished, and then eat the meat that's, you know, from the animal instead of it's been processed.

We don't know exactly how ground beef got to Burger King specifically. And I think eating it occasionally and removing all of the carbohydrates and the ultra-process, because if you look at the ingredients in the bread versus the meat, there is a difference in level of stuff they put in it. And the meet is lot more natural, but you can't be getting a grass-fed, grass finished. steak in its pure form and then just eating that and cooking it yourself and not having to worry were there seed oils? Was there something else added?

I mean sometimes they add red food dye to meats to make it look more richer and red and that's crazy but there are neurotoxic effects and heart health effects even with food dyes for example. What if your heart could actually get better, not just managed? What of your recovery didn't depend on adding more prescription drugs, but on finally understanding why your is struggling in the first place? I'm Dr. Jack Wolfson, cardiologist at Natural Heart Doctor, and we believe heart disease isn't random, it's a message.

It's message that inflammation, toxins, nutrient deficiencies, or lifestyle stressors are driving your symptoms beneath the surface. That's why our approach goes far beyond the band-aid typical cardiology approaches. What we do is if we want to prevent treat and reverse cardiovascular disease, we help you develop a natural evidence-based plan to help your heart recover. So if you're ready to move past fear, past confusion, and past just take this and wait, you deserve real answers. Visit naturalheartdoctor.com forward slash discovery and get the answers you've been searching for the Answers that can help you achieve your best heart health your next chapter with a simple free discovery call should start now How should we best cook our meat?

Take it from that. Is it rare, is it medium rare? I assume it's not well done hockey puck style. In dealing with thousands of people over the years, what do you think? Before I answer that, let me answer a little bit more about the clean versus like I guess more dirty carnivore. I think when you're first starting to go really strict, really clean carnival is sort of hard, especially if you are coming from standard American diet, if your coming form dirty keto. So I thing it's more of if could get your blood sugar regulated, reduce your insulin resistance and not be so tied to sugar.

then I think at that point anything is on the table. Yes, Jacqueline's uses soy sauce and it's not perfect, but if that will allow you to not grab chips and cookies and candy, then i'm all for that for now. And then as you're on this way of eating, so now we we order quarter steers and we have our own animals and, we ordered whole hogs and have a chest freezer, But it took me a while to get here and go to the farm and get our pasture raised eggs and our raw milk. so but it it wasn't overnight that that happened so find that balance and then if you're not healing enough then yes there are additives and stuff that

Cooking Meat and Food Safety 11:23

are in these more processed meats you probably want to take that out of your diet and eat more of the natural though the way that nature or god intended the animals should be raised and if then you can consume those and see if that will bring more healing to answer your question about cooking so it's interesting in our practice So nutritionally, it is true that if you cook a steak too much, or if cook meat too, much it will kill some of the water soluble vitamins. Example, for example, meat is already limited in vitamin C.

If you cooked it a lot, It will even reduce that vitamin c even further. The problem that we see though, is that, we have seen people that eat a- Dr. Wilson? Okay, I could just finish what I was saying. Okay. But the problem we've seen with eating more raw meats, though, is that we do some stool tests or qPCR stool test and we see that some people then will end up suffering from E. coli and stuff. And we don't know for sure if it's the raw meat, but we have seen this correlation where People that eat raw meat every single day, they may have a risk.

I mean, it just takes one bad meat and have compromised immune system, which most people that will try a carnivore diet probably have, a compromised system. And then they are now suffering from gut infections such as E. coli because they're not cooking their meat enough. Because again, that meat was not handled and maybe that's where you have to eat more of the clean meat. But so that where it gets a little tricky. I think if you were to cook it maybe more medium or maybe a little bit less than medium but not completely raw like I don't know if blue is ideal either but if can just cook and I would there's certain tools that you use obviously you don' really I'm not the biggest fan of the sous vide because a lot of people use the plastic and so to cooking in plastic just I dont feel really comfortable with that.

If you can use a cast iron pan I know some people will say that's a bit excess iron I thinks it's fine and then if use either like stainless steel but You don't want it on the pan too much. If you see like smoke and if you like black smoke around your meat, that's probably causing oxidative stress or like the inflammation that would be coming into your body. So it is tricky. But again, I think it's that nuance that doesn't matter enough until you need to worry about that because we've seen people, even if they don' t cook it in the most perfect way, if even they cook well done, we see people heal with a carnivore diet because you're reducing again that overall toxic bucket.

And again, I love how you started off the conversation as well about just kind of using this as like this first kind benchmark of, hey, let's just clean everything out of your nutrition side of the story and find kind like a new baseline. And if that really gets you to a great place, fantastic. If it doesn't, then we've clearly got some other issues that we got to delve further into. Tell us about organ cuts, organ needs, the liver, or the heart, kidney, so on and so forth. What are you advising your clients on now?

Yeah. So when I first joined the carnivore community, I thought, you know, they are really nutrient dense. I mean, that's really true. But what I have found over the years, and we do a lot of hair mineral tests, we see the status of minerals within a cell. It's like a three month picture of how your cell status is with minerals. it's not the same as when you just get blood work and you see your calcium, magnesium. Normally, those are The blood loves always being in homeostasis, so it will typically be balanced.

And what we found is that there are certain people where if they eat too much liver, their levels in copper go really high, and copper balances zinc. You need zinc for stomach acid. you need for many other things. Even for immune function, you'll see zinc start dropping. And then there's also a concern about vitamin A toxicity where certain people, I think if maybe you eat one ounce a week, maybe, you'll be fine. But we see people eat like six ounces to 10 ounces a day and thinking that's so nutritious for you.

The other flip side of the excess or hypernutrition is the concern that your livers and kidney is where your body detoxes. it's where and you don't know when because some of the arguments I'll hear is that your liver doesn't store toxins but it actually does but if you were to process an animal you, don t know where in the cycle of deliver cleaning that you have processed that animal and so I think in order to liver and kidneys,

Organ Meats, Seafood, Eggs, and Dairy 15:31

which are very nutritious. You should, one, maybe limit the amount of it, but also make sure that the animal is clean. So I think if any part of the animals you're going to eat, especially when it comes to the organs and the organ that are supposed to detoxify the whole body, you want to make that those organs are the cleanest and from the healthiest of animals. I thing with the heart, it might be a little bit different, I thik the hear is rich in CoQ10, so it's a perfect If you are trying to support your heart health, I think eating heart is advantageous.

It's more like a muscle than it is an organ, so there's less vitamin A. There's of those mineral imbalances that maybe liver and kidney can provide. And, you know, one thing that I've been critical of the carnivore community, kind of in general, just some of bigger players, the bigger names, and you're one of biggest names in the field, most certainly, but you tend to pay a lot more attention to seafood. I see other people, not to mention names but historically they only eat meat and even that they're not eating the organs.

They just seem to be having, a ribeye after a tomahawk after ground. But, talk us through seafood and what role that has in this carnival plan. Yeah, I think the goal, if you're going to stay on carnivore long-term, which I thing is completely possible. I've been carniva, like strict carnival, meaning only, only animal-based foods for the first three years. And then now I eat like carnivoish. So some days I will add some plants, it's not a big deal. It's like probably 5% or less of my diet. Now I have been doing this for seven years, so I can totally do it long term.

But if your going be only strict, carniver longterm I do think it is more ideal and this is just because I've seen the nutritional data as a nutritionist, and so I do think it is more advantageous to eat the rainbow or what I like to call the rainbar. I'm going to steal back the the Rainbow of Meats so that you want to, again, eat from air, land and sea. And it's because if you think about the sea and you get fish and fatty fish, there are different nutrient profiles. Pound for pound, there is no animal that has more minerals than if you were to get the seafood from the ocean.

So if want a lot of zinc and a lotta copper, Oregon meats has a We've also seen, because we run a lot of omega tests, and we've run other tests. We run functional tests in our practice. And we have seen a lots of carnivores where their omega-3s are not there because you don't crave a fatty fish when you're on a carnival day. You crave like a Fatty Rebi. So what we say is, for your health, just like you sometimes drink water because, you know you need to hydrate, not necessarily that you are thirsty.

it would be ideal if maybe you had either like wild sardines or you have some wild salmon because those omega-3s we have seen so much a reduction of inflammation and in general we've seen a production in pain so we sometimes if people can't get to the fish will do like a like a general fatty acid support. And we have seen so many of our patients, their joint pain reduce and their overall inflammation reduce, and they've been on a carnivore diet. So again, it's that toxin bucket. If you are reducing it with carniva without fish, why not try some fatty fish too, to support that omega-3, omega 6 balance, And then reduce some of the inflammation that Omega- 3s can provide.

We have again seen that the toxins bucket even lowers further. I do think, especially if you don't take any supplements, Meat doesn't have a, it has minerals, but it doesn' have as much of an abundance as seafood does. Excellent. Now, you mentioned you're carnivore-ish at times, and I think this is where things kind of go a little bit kind-of questionable maybe. Not so much on the egg front, talk to me about eggs and then where does dairy fit in to the, maybe not even necessarily the classic carnival per se, raw dairy just as far as your nutritional training.

Where does that fit? Yeah, so if people can consume eggs, I'm a big fan of eggs actually. I know it's highly sensitive for many people. Maybe if you were to just remove the egg whites, that may help. But egg yolks itself, it is a nutritional powerhouse. There is so many micro-minerals in there such as such as choline, for example, but there's a lot of people that are sensitive to eggs. So I cannot deny that. It is a food that we may introduce later as people are healing, as their toxic bucket is lowered, so that then they don't have to use supplements and instead they can eat an egg to get some of that excess nutrition.

And then in terms of dairy, It really depends, so I think the processed, you know, conventional dairy is highly ultra-pasteurized, it's homogenized. So you're not eating the natural form of the food and so it may cause low-grade inflammation. We do see some people be able to eat conventional diary and they're fine. But generally speaking, the ideal dairy, if you can consume it, If you don't have blood sugar desk regulations is the raw dairy because it has all the nutrients, The amino acids intact as nature intended.

And so it is, it Is rich in nutrition. It has All the complete amino Acids. it Has good fats for you. and so It is a complete whole food on its own. If You can tolerate it. That's great. Otherwise, maybe for some people that maybe can't balance some of the sugar, sugar low, then they can always try raw dairy or raw, I'm sorry, raw cheese. So that can also help too with at least supporting the gut. And we're, are there people who should be concerned about starting carnivore or do you find pretty much everybody can jump into it?

Do you have to ease people in? What's been your experience before? Before, you know, we kind of get into how this, how do we recommend to start the carnival diet? And of course, You know, you got your book in the background, The Carnivore Cure, and that's a great, great resource of course to dive into all things carnivores and how you can achieve that. Are there any like, you know, warnings for people getting into this? I have not seen anyone that we have had to tell like you cannot do the carnivore diet.

Now, I think there are psychological differences in personality. So there's nuance. Maybe if you are an all or nothing, the best way for your body to assimilate to a carnival diet, especially if your not low carb is to slowly lower the the carbohydrate intake, but there's a lot of people that can't do that. So it's like one carbohydrate makes them binge on every carbohydrate. Really understanding your personality and what works for you. For some people, they just need to rip off the bandaid and it goes, I'm going to go cold turkey, Chicken wings, you know, whatever it is, I'm going to eat that until I get off the sugar roller coaster and then I can refine my carnivore diet.

So that really depends. There are some people that have their gallbladder removed. Actually, it's pretty common, which is not ideal. But if they've already had it removed, You might not be able to tolerate the fat as easily. and but we have seen people over time they will assimilate because their liver will still produce that bile that they need to break down fat so if you don't have your gallbladder you might have to take like ox bile or some digestive supports or enzymes to help you be able to tolerate fat and you may just have lower your fat intake initially so that your body gets more assimilated.

There are Some thoughts about people with oxalate dumping.

Who Should Start Carnivore and How to Transition 22:58

So if you've been eating the spinach, the almonds, or turmeric, they are very high in oxaloids. And so there is a camp that believes that if we just cut all of those off immediately, you will feel the detox effects from that. If you believe that you're in that camp, then you can go a little bit slower. In our practice, we've seen a mix with that, but we don't see people really oxaly dumping, I truly believe some of these people are actually suffering from mold illness. And now that their body's getting cleaner, their bodies like, oh, I could start dumping mold and they'd start feeling unwell.

But I think they're, if you look at the similarities in oxalate dumping and SIRS or mold illness, they are the same. Yeah, no, that's a great point. And I know you talked so much about mold. and the other environmental toxins, so you're really kind of running full spectrum over there. And don't worry people, Judy Show is really getting into some nitty gritty here with a lot of these different terms. Again, your book is a wonderful resource on this. So is your website. I'm Ness. The best ways to kind of jump into carnivore, what do you think outside?

I mean, because it's probably best of course to get educated on this as opposed to waking up one day and say, I'm just going to eat meat going forward. And then I will say I do want to say one more thing too, while it is on my mind. You know, Judy, your history is you're a recovering vegan. And I want to ask you, there's a lot of people in your community who were vegan that are now carnivore. I wonder if there is the opposite, that there are carnival people who... found that didn't work and then they went vegan and that was their answer.

Are you running into any of those people? No, I have not seen a single person that's become carnivore that then ended up converting to more plant-based. What I think happens is I know that there's obviously contention between the carnivoids and vegans and I actually think we're more similar than we are not. We find that standard care is not helping us enough. We have some illness, something that's imbalance, Something that we're unhappy about. Maybe we have a little bit of excess weight because we are insulin resistant.

So we just trying to find an answer. we first hear that a plant-based diet or a vegan diet is the way to go that eat the rainbows of the of the plant kingdom and so we try that and then maybe our energy tanks or we're not and initially we might feel a little bit better because we are removing a lot of that ultra-processed foods but we start not feeling as well and maybe we were getting some muscle wasting. And so then we started saying well this diet isn't it and that was me, I was 12 years plant-based and I got really, really sick.

I ended up in the hospital and had to figure out I have another child on the way, I need to figure out how to get my health better or I'm going to end up in the mental hospital again. And so it was in that process then I went keto plant-based and that helped with adding some quality fats such as coconut oil and avocado oil, and olive oil. But it wasn't enough until I ate meat. Then with eating meat and then doing some like mind-body work, that was truly the ways that I healed. Now I never deal with depression and I would never end-up in a hospital for mental illness.

I think when we are so sick and we don't know what the answer is and think it's plant based, I think these people are like, well, now plant-based doesn't work, what else works? And so with the stories that you hear online about a carnivore diet, which sounds crazy, I thought it was crazy too when I first tried it, to go from a PETA-supporting, loving, plant based person to say I'm going to eat meat because if I can't take care of my own self and my children, how am I going take of the animals that I also love?

That was such a hard pill to swallow. And now I realize I can do good in this world and then take care of animals if I want to, because maybe I eat one and a half animals a year. Whereas if before, with all the monocropping and stuff, you end up killing a lot more animals. But I think that there are so many people that then find healing on a carnivore diet. So that's why they stay. I think if most people had the luxury, it's like, hey, you can eat anything you want and you would be perfectly healthy.

Would you add other stuff? I don't think most carnivores would go, no, I'm just going to eat meat. I mean, we know that there is some secret sauce in eating a carniver diet and healing and reducing inflammation, having less heart risk. We have people in our practice that they'll do the calcium artery scan. You know, not the biggest fan of it, but it was higher before and then and then they get it taken again after being carnivore for a couple of years. And it's either the same or it is reduced. So that means that the soft plaque is not growing, which is the most dangerous one.

It's a win. We are told that cholesterol is so bad for us, but why would your body make 70% of its cholesterol needs inside the body if it was so Bad for you?

Why Carnivore Stays Effective Long Term 27:28

And your brain is made of 60% cholesterol. But again, when we're taking statins and we are taking things to reduce cholesterol, well when most people get heart attacks, At least 50% have normal cholesterol levels. So we're obviously missing something and animals have always been around no matter what age or time period we go back to. And yet this new heart disease is because of an old food, it makes no sense. I always just say, just try it and see if it works. It's not just stepping in, but it's thinking of what's your why because this diet is hard because One day, you'll have stress, and you're going to want to turn to the junky food that you used to eat.

And then you are going have people in your ear saying, You're gonna have a heart attack, without fiber, your gut's gonna get ruined, And all of these other things, or you ruining the planet. So you need a strong why to say, No, I'm still going stay the course. Building a community around it, getting knowledge, around a lot of this, with the purpose of why is it that ribeye is healthy for you? What is about fat? Well, every single cell of our body, the outer layer is made of fat. So depending on the fat you're eating, so again, if you were eating those canola oils, think about that fat around, it's already rancid and toxic and inflammatory and causes oxidative stress, or it is filled with tallow on that outside.

Think of which cell is more better for you. And then we're made up of trillions of cells, so if you just think of those things and know those thing, just maybe, I think it was like maybe four years ago, they removed the upper requirement of cholesterol. They used to have it that you could have maybe two eggs a day, otherwise you're at the cap of Cholesterol and you are risking heart disease. Well, the silently removed that from the dietary guidelines because they found zero proof that that was true.

So it's all of these things that we have been really misinformed, and that's why I carnivore diet or a meat based diet is actually the way we are intended to eat. And then your comfort level of plants in the end is really up to you and what will make it a lifestyle. Yeah, that's all just wonderful information. I mean, and, you know, listen, if you didn't make the rules, I didn' And, you know, humans have been eating meat and seafood since, really, since the dawn of our human existence. And when you do it the ethical way, the right way and you honor and cherish the animal, I shared with you that story from a couple of years ago when my boys and I were on a bison hunt and kill and harvest, and we killed the animals along with around 15 other people.

We blessed the beast, we were thankful for the creature, very respectful for it. And again, that is just the optimal way to eat and live. So again Judy Cho, the book is The Carnivore Cure. Nutrition with Judy is the website. This episode is inside of the Heart Attack and Stroke Prevention Summit. And if you want to prevent a heart attack or stroke, or you wanna recover from a hard attack, a stroke you'd be wise to get a copy of Judy's book and pay attention to the work she's doing. You can tell obviously, you just deal with so many different people, so any different scenarios.

Thank you so much for being on this episode. Thank. You so. Much for having me. Dr. Jack Wolfson, another great episode, we'll see you next time. Bye everyone. Thanks for listening to the Natural Heart Doctors show. If this episode challenged what you thought you knew about heart health, make sure you follow the show so you don't miss what's next. And if you're ready for a deeper personalized approach, you can schedule a complimentary discovery call at naturalheartdoctor.com forward slash discovery.