Discover Pathogens That Cause Inflammation

Introduction to Pathogens and Chronic Inflammation 0:00

Welcome to the Conquering Chronic Inflammation Summit. I'm your host, Dr. David Jockers. And today, I have the honor of interviewing Dr. Jaban Moore. And we're going to talk all about pathogens and chronic infections that cause inflammation. So if you want to know about yeast, molds, we're going to talk about Lyme disease. We're going to talk about H. Pylori parasites, all different types of infections and how they drive up inflammation in the body. Dr. Jaban Moore you can find his website drjabanmoore.com.

He personally was diagnosed with Lyme disease. And once he overcame that infection, he dedicated his practice to helping clients discover the causes of their symptoms. Dr. Moore specializes in Lyme disease, pans and pandas, autism, parasitic infections, and environmental toxicity. Dr. Moore and his team at The Redefining Wellness Center see clients virtually. Again, you can visit his website, drjabanmoore.com he's got a wealth of knowledge there. You can also follow him, follow him on social media as well.

And so, without further ado, let's go into this great interview. Well, Dr. Jaban Moore, always great to connect with you. I know you're an expert when it comes to parasites, Lyme disease, right? All of these different pathogens that can really cause a major havoc in our body. Let's talk about some of these major pathogens and really how kind of the mechanisms

Common Pathogens: Parasites, Lyme, Mold, Candida, and Viruses 1:35

for how they cause oxidative stress and inflammation in our system. Yeah, that's a really huge topic because there are so many different pathogens that you can run into. So, you know, I give a little list here and then we can just like dive into the ones that you pick as your favorite. There are parasites, which is something that so many people think, hey, that's not me. But more than 100 million people were diagnosed with stronger ladies alone. Right. So if you look up just googled parasite infection worldwide, World Health Organization said that about 3.5 billion people have been affected by parasites.

Like you're going to run into parasites. We've got Lyme disease that goes around. I mean, that's it. That's what affected me. That's my personal story, that Lyme disease and some of its co-infections. Then you have mold toxicity, but you also can have mold that can colonize to your body and create a growth, like a growth of mold in your gut, in your tissue that then produces those toxic mycotoxins that create so much inflammation. We have candida yeast. We have different viruses such as Epstein-Barr.

that's probably one of the most popular ones. So there's all these different pathogens, and they always come as friends, so they're never alone. So is there a way you want to start this, pathogen? You want to go ahead with? Well, let's talk about some of the most common ones. you know, obviously, I know you do a lot of work with parasites as a major one. So we can talk about some of the parasites. I know, you know, when I, whenever I look at, like, a stool analysis, one of the big ones that jumps out is H.

Pylori, which is bacteria that that, that can overgrow in the stomach. A lot of people out there dealing with things like small intestinal bacterial overgrowth. Let's talk about, you know, some of these things. Absolutely. So parasites I love to do the parasite one on one. Just the rundown. Because for so many people parasites still are just this unknown. Right. So I was mentioning there they're all over the place. If you eat food, whether it be meat, vegetables, fruits, it doesn't matter what diet you're on, parasites are going to come in contact with that food at some point along the journey.

not every bite you eat, but in general. So if you're eating raw vegetables, there are parasites. There's little spores on that. And then when you're eating it, you're eating them. But your body should be able to defend it when it's healthy. Unfortunately, so many of us aren't truly healthy when it comes to our saliva, our hydrochloric acid in our stomach, our microbiome. So we are in a position where we're not defending well, and then meat if you're not cooking at all, well done. Same kind of problem. There could be parasites in there.

Parasites, Stool Testing, and Hidden Infections 4:15

So parasites are all over the place. If you have animals that are in your home that lick your face, that rub the blood across your bed. If you have children that are playing around out in the dirt and they come and grab doorknobs, right? So parasites are all around us and the parasites cause they cause different types of digestive tract. And of all the times you mentioned IBS, so they disrupt the microbiome when somebody comes in with H, pyloric, SIBO, yeast overgrowth. One of the things that I look at is are parasites involved that are allowing for those infections to be a part of our journey or a part of our problem as we're we're working through this.

So they get in the gut, they disrupt the microbiome, they create inflammation by releasing endotoxins by damaging tissue. They can be just growth oriented. They can also get out into your tissues. So Stranger ladies is one of those types of parasites that does something where it auto reinfection. So it doesn't actually leave your body like some people think about eggs in the stool. So that's what some testing looks for. They don't have to leave. They can reinfect you in your gut, get out of your digestive tract.

They'll go through a life cycle where they get into your tissues, they get into your lungs, and they go back into the digestive track. And then they can continue this whole life cycle inside your body. So that's one type of parasite that can cause a lot of muscle pain, digestive issues. Any female that comes in to me with a significant PMS or difficult cycle, I consider Strongyloides to be a potential possibility. Not necessarily always, but it's a potential. Another one is barbecue, which about 40% of Lyme disease people end up testing positive for.

So this is a bloodborne pathogen. It gets in the red blood cell. It can damage the red blood cell, bringing an inflammatory process even into the blood vessels where if you have an inflammation, your blood vessels, you're gonna have inflammation all throughout your entire body. And but oftentimes will showcase pain and headaches along the occipital region of the back of the neck. It's going to also a potential for like your joints. So if all your joints are really, really achy babesia can be one of those things.

So you just feel arthritic. but this also can end up it can lead down the path where as all this inflammation builds up, Lyme disease oftentimes will have elevated ferritin or iron levels, which is actually blood, which are blood tests for iron and ferritin. But when those elevate too high, that can mean inflammation in the body. So that's a test that isn't always thought of as inflammation, but is kind of one of those hints at it. so those are two really common parasites. Now, both of those are not the long, worm like parasites that we all think of.

We always are thinking about all others. This big worm that somebody posted on TikTok or Instagram. And it's really scary looking. Well, only about 30% of parasites are visible to the naked eye. There are. Other 70% are too small for us to see. Now strongyloides can be seen. It may look like rice coming out or little, little like white peas coming out or yellowish pea. So if you've got rice coming out and you didn't eat rice, you might start thinking about it. but parasites, as far as the types of infections that get you are mostly not visible, which is one of the reasons why it's really hard for people to grasp because they think of these big, big worms.

So those are probably some of my most common parasites that I run into. Yeah, there's like amoeba protozoa, like for example, Blastocysts harmonists, right. That are, that are really common. you know, you don't see those. In giardia, I think. And when I last googled and so maybe it's changed a little bit. The CDC reported more than a million cases in the United States, the year before I googled. So last year, I think go to bat, 2022 is when that was reported. So a million cases and I say so parasites and westernized, supposedly non parasitic based countries.

Right. So they don't we don't think of first world countries is having a lot of parasites, but a million cases of just one type of parasite. And and that's typically only diagnosed because the person having such terrible GI symptoms, they've actually gone in and gotten, conventional stool testing and where they actually, you know, visibly are able to find the parasite. Now, a lot of people may have giardia, they may have symptoms for a day or two, and then it kind of goes away. And they feel like they're more balanced.

They don't go in, get any sort of testing. But a lot of times people have parasites that are in a sense subclinical meaning like they don't have like serious, effects that would then, you know, warrant them going and seeing a gastrointestinal doctor, and getting this sort of testing. But they never feel great. Right. And over time, you know, they're they're building more and more inflammation. And then sometimes in a functional perspective, we'll do a stool test and we'll start to see these things showing up.

Yeah. And stool testing has its limitations. So sometimes sometimes you run a stool sample and depending upon the company you send it to. Now there are a few companies out there that are elevating what we're looking at. as far as the stool sample, but your average stool sample, the one you're going to run to the hospital, it's looking for a couple parasites that are more local to the area. They're not doing a wide berth or different organisms. They're looking specifically for ova or egg in the the stool sample.

They're not looking for particulars of the organisms and different other parts of the body that a pathologist would look for, because it's a technician looking for this, which the technicians said, here's your stool sample. You get 90s to look through it. If you don't see anything, it's a negative. Move it on.

Lyme Disease and Borrelia Explained 10:10

It's not a pathologist that is trained to see different signs and getting more time. So testing for parasites is also very, very limited. So sometimes for me anyway, it's just worth doing the maybe $100 protocol versus doing the 5 or $800 test to see what would happen. Right? Right. That makes sense. Yep. And so let's talk about, you know, you mentioned, ABC, you also have Borrelia, which is, which is real common, you know, and that that's kind of associated in that Lyme category. Let's talk about that bacteria.

Yeah. So moving from parasites to bacteria said Borrelia Lyme. That's my story. That's my background. I had Lyme disease when I was 25, and I was going all over the place looking for answers because I was a 25 year old, healthy eating fit, previous college athlete in chiropractic school male. So I'll just give you the story like I wasn't a junk food junkie. I wasn't doing things that would break my body down. So it's a little bit stress for school. And I ended up with body pain so aching all over.

I tore the ligament in my elbow. I pulled an impossibly, maybe strained or slight taut tear to my groin, just randomly. And I'm talking like I wasn't even doing anything excessive. And I ended up with erectile dysfunction at this time at 25 years old. And when I went and talked with conventional practitioners, I would get an answer. Well, sometimes that just happens at 25. There's a little blue pill for that. And then I went to more alternative practitioners, and at least at the the top of the heap here it was.

Well, L-arginine is really good at vasodilation. we can give you some different like nitric oxide supplements. You could check your heart, do some CoQ10. But I was like, okay, sure. Those are natural and healthy things. And and I'm happy to to put the bandaid on of natural and healthy things to see if that would help. Which, by the way, for me, it didn't help. but those were answers. So as I kept going down that journey, I finally got to a conference for functional medicine for like, the weird stuff.

And I got I was like, hey, maybe you have Lyme disease. Like, oh, sure, you know, why do I test for that? What I do is like, well, I don't really know much about it, but there's this one guy I've heard of. So here, here I am, living in the middle of the United States. I'm driving eight hours north to Wisconsin to see Doctor Alan Lindsley, who says, yeah, you've got the signs, symptoms and checks me. He's like, you've got Lyme. Let's do this treatment, this treatment, this treatment. And within a few weeks, I was seeing significant changes on my symptoms.

So that's my story. So I get how it feels when when you have this chronic inflammation, chronic symptoms, chronic pain, injuries that just aren't going away because Borrelia is Lyme disease. That's the name of the bug. That's the name of the bacteria. And there are multiple different strains of Borrelia. So it's not just one type of bacteria because it's lots of mutations. So if you look at the different types of testing, you see lots of Borelli is and that's why there are different mutations or strains.

If you look at the standard testing for Borrelia, this bacteria is a CDC test that when you look up, I believe it was like 2015. They said, hey, look, we we found 25,000 people to be positive to Lyme disease this year, but we think it's more like 300,000 to 1 million. I did some quick math on that and I was like, those don't add up very well. as far as like the percentage of people caught to have it, percentage to the percentage of what they thought. So I was like, the testing must just be terrible.

Well, as you look at the specificity of these tests, there's a few new tests that have come out, whether it be fiber in America or a Gen X, or even DNA connections that have much better rates of actually picking up on these infections. So if you're dealing with chronic inflammation and it's potentially due to a bacteria that gets in and triggers the immune system to have what looks like autoimmune reactions, or oftentimes Lyme can be misdiagnosed as rheumatoid arthritis. I've seen it so many times in my clinic where people come in and we go, hey, let's optimize your system.

Let's get your immune system working the best we can. Let's optimize it for bacteria. Let's do the things that should work. if your body had Lyme and now symptoms go away, RH factor goes negative. Pain in the hands, the swelling, the large knuckles start to go away. And I've also seen studies where they did a autopsy on brains. And they looked at how many of those brains of patients I had. Ms. tested positive for Borelli, and it was about 25% of brains tested positive for Borrelia. If you're unfamiliar with Ms., it's multiple sclerosis.

And this is the where the the tissue around the nerve which is fat a D myelinated. So the fat goes away. And now one of the thoughts is this could be because of infections trigger an immune system in that area, which can be Borrelia. Another link is nematode parasites. And a third link is Epstein-Barr virus. So Lyme disease is something that they claim is only in the northeast. It's been found and tested positive around the world and in every state of the United States. The testing just isn't great.

Yeah, that's that's a a quick overview. It's an important one to be aware of. Very highly un underdiagnosed. So that's key. Now you mentioned Epstein-Barr or that virus that's really common as well. Can you tell us more about that. Yeah. So Epstein-Barr virus is something that 96% of the population likely will test positive for. So 96%. So you got to keep that in mind when you're doing the testing. So if you run the testing at least I run often through LabCorp, usually about 21 is a positive on that test.

So that's the number positive. So if you have 25, 30, 40, 50, honestly for me I look at that and I go, you know, this is a virus. It's opportunistic. It's in your body. It flares up when you're weak, when you're stressed, when you're tired, when you're living in mold. And yet Lyme disease, if you're at 50, that's probably for me. That's just not a red flag. And that's an antibody to an antibody. Yeah yeah yeah yeah. Now I see all the time people that come in at 600 or 750, depending upon what the lab will actually let the range go to.

And then you get a greater than sign, it says greater than this mark, if you're way up there and you don't have to be all the way up there to say you're two 300, then this is probably an infection that's not only just in your body. Like I said, 96% have it, but it's also probably been active

Epstein-Barr Virus and Chronic Fatigue 16:55

and potentially causing pathogenic issues or damage in the last nine months because, as I do, deep dive into the immunology research and you look at whether it be food allergies, you look at different types of testing. And, and I even go back to the pandemic and we look at Covid, they're like, hey, you know, if you have positive antibodies or if you've had Covid in the last three months, you don't have to do this or that, like, you're okay. But they knew that antibodies would decrease over time, right, where your immune system decreased in function.

So if your antibodies on Epstein-Barr elevated, then that means likely in the last somewhere between 3 and 9 months you created an immune response to that. So when we're way up there, I'm going, hey, this thing's active. This thing's a chronic infection that we probably need to pay attention to, that it's been referred to as a chronic fatigue virus. And there are multiple different layers of testing. But I don't usually identify this to be the root cause of of symptoms by itself. I domestic yeah, I typically find this to be paired with other things.

And those other things can be the parasites, the borrelia, the mold. It can also be paired with you don't eat enough because your diet is as poor and you're trying to lose weight or something. So if you just don't eat enough, that's stressful. If you're junk food, you're eating crappy food. that can do the same thing if you work too much or you have, a life event that's really stressful and suppressing your immune system, that's when Epstein-Barr does its best work to cause damage to your body. Yeah, that's important to know.

And then the final one I want to talk about is H. Pylori. Are you seeing that often? I do see explorer come up along with several different other dysbiosis in the digestive tract, whether that be staff, strep, Clostridium, and then the methane and hydrogen CBOs. So I tend not to be the guy that looks at bacteria in the digestive tract on a stool sample and go, man, you've got this one. And we got to really, truly focus on that. that's just not the perspective that I have when I my perspectives. You have 40,000 different name bacteria in your digestive tract, and that's just the ones that they've named.

And they could be anything like lactobacillus in in five numbers after it. And they each now are identifying purposes for these bacteria. And as they identify purposes for these bacteria, as I did some research and don't ask me the numbers in the name now, but this one might regulate strongyloides and this one might defend Giardia, and that one helps to decrease inflammation. This one helps to deal with neurotransmitters. So if your digestive track gets off because your body's not able to do proper crowd control.

And what I'm saying crowd control is because there's so many bacteria, it's not about annihilation. It's not about killing. It's about getting all these pathogens into a position where they're no longer overgrown. They're not causing harm. They're not releasing too many endotoxins, but they're working in a harmony. And I know I was at a conference and this is what really it really sparked in my brain is they're talking about Hillary specifically. They're showing research about her. Laurie, when it is not pathogenic, can actually be a symbol.

It's symbiote in your body. It's actually a good bacteria, has positive interaction. Now, I do find it often outside of that and positive and hais you asked in my finding it a lot. I do see it a lot on stool samples elevated out of range,

H. Pylori, Dysbiosis, and Digestive Overgrowth 20:35

which can lead to burning stomachs. It can lead to ulcers. It can lead to IBS like symptoms. So if you're having those things, it could very well be right. But it always takes you back to the why. Is it because you've been taking antacids and it's decreasing your immune system in your digestive track? Or is it because you have food poisoning or you have a parasite, you're drinking radioactive water. You're living in a multi environment. As you can tell. I always go back to the why? Because bacteria regulate themselves to some degree.

As long as your immune system has that crowd control going on and it's when they're out of range, it's it's y. Yeah, yeah. Makes sense H pylori is always one that concerns me when I see it on a stool test, because it really resides so high up and all of us have it at some degree, like you said. I mean, it it should be a commensal in general, meaning that just kind of part of a normal microbiome. But because it's in the stomach, when I see it elevated in the stool, it's telling me because a lot of stuff that kind of starts in the stomach, in a sense, gets kind of pushed away as it moves through the system.

and so when I see it elevated in the stool, I think, okay, this person's probably got an overgrowth there. And the issue with H. Pylori is some of its main mechanisms where it shuts down stomach acid production. If we don't have good stomach acid production, we're not going to sterilize the food that comes in, which is going to predispose us to having a higher risk of a parasite infection. Right, or something along those lines. and then on top of that, it's not going to allow us to metabolize protein and amino acids effectively.

Key like key minerals like zinc, magnesium are setting us up for more nutrient deficiencies, which then causes more stress on our system, which then can compound that and create more of a, health, you know, more of an environment where parasites, and other opportunistic microbes are going to thrive. So that's always been my perspective. I see it elevated in the person who has chronic symptoms. usually I'm thinking that is a major factor. But like you said, I think a good clinician always has to ask why?

Why was he elevated to begin with? Right. Because these infections don't just in a sense, they don't start on their own. Right. there must have been a weakening of the host to begin with, which could be some sort of chronic weakening like mold and living in a moldy home. Chronic stress, relational issues. I mean, all these different factors like you've talked about. But I think it is something that, you know, as a clinician, you've got to keep a close eye on when somebody's got chronic issues. Absolutely. Couldn't agree more.

Yeah, yeah for sure. So let's talk about strategies. you know, when it comes to reducing, I you know, I won't say eliminating pathogens because like that's pretty much impossible but reducing. Yeah. Everybody has a certain threshold for the pathogen load that your body can handle. And to some degree having a certain level it's just under that threshold is can be healthy. It actually primes your immune system. But once it goes above that threshold it really over stresses your system. So what are some strategies that people can take to help reduce their microbial load.

So there's a number of strategies that I like to put in place when we're going through our first conversation. And the first of that is making sure that you are optimizing your environment because your environment is so important to making sure your body and your immune system can do its job. So you've got to make sure your air you're breathing is clean. We want to be. And I'm not looking for a mold free environment, but mold reasonable environment to where mold isn't causing a significant suppression to your body because mold can come in.

Suppressed immune system allow for dysbiosis to happen, leading to things like Sibo or right to overgrow or yeast overgrow in your body. So mold, being one of those things in the air, your food supply, you got to make sure that you're eating organic and healthy. That's commonly said someone's going to keep going. Your water. Water is one of those things where if you're drinking tap water today, that's step one. Stop. We want to get clean water. And because you don't want water that's going in your mouth down your

Strategies to Reduce Microbial Load 24:55

into your gut being toxic and creating inflammation and disruption, that leads to things not working right. And then lastly, getting the proper hygiene products. So create that healthy environment, that safe place, so that your body can operate at a truly good function. From there, we got to move on to nervous system regulation. If you're not doing something to get your body to be in a safe feeling state, then what happens is your body feels like it's running from a bear. If you're running from a bear, you're not worried about what you're eating.

Tomorrow night for dinner, you're worried about one more step, and that means your immune system is not going to be operating at a higher capacity. Your immune system is not going to be operating from a place of optimal function, and it's going to let go of some of those bacteria because it's focused on whatever, stressing you out so much. So I always start with those two steps because they're missed. So often when people come to me and they're talking to me in my clinic, those steps just aren't paid attention to.

Now, once you've got those down, then we can really critique and customize a protocol for you. And how we start to do that is we look at eating practices. So I love fasting because that decreases the amount of food going and the amount of resources that we're using to digest food. And it's increasing the immune ability to do work because you're eating less often. So fasting can be a really great tool. Intermittent fasting I know I don't typically eat before noon. I'm trying to be done by 8 p.m. almost every single day, and that's been for years now.

So fasting is a phenomenal tool to use just to give your body a little bit of a bump. I also am a fan of eating a little bit lower on the carbs sugar. Now, this is not necessarily keto. I don't have a problem with keto, but, I'm I'm 30% carb or less typically with people that I work with. And I see this really significantly impact decreasing stress to the nervous system, to the immune system. I see people that have these really overreactive immune systems, just like calming down when we decrease carbohydrate intake.

So that's a simple two tweaks to the to the diet that can then lead us down a good path from there. From there I'm optimizing mineral intake and I'm optimizing vitamin intake. So we'll look at a hair tissue mineral test. We'll look at different urine or blood testing. And something that I see very often people with disrupted digestive tract, chronic inflammation, chronic infections is low sodium potassium because their bodies been stressed for so long that it's burning through that sodium, potassium that they're getting in their diet.

So it's not keeping up. They're burning through their stores, and now they're almost depleted. So they end up feeling weak, tired. They don't have a lot of resilience. They don't have a lot of fight to them. Maybe they at this point have a little dizziness when they stand up. So I'm I'm testing those tests, bringing in missing minerals to give the body again the strength to start moving forward. And that's something that's been a new find for me, honestly, here in the last probably two years, where I'm like, okay, look, it's not about just bringing in the good antimicrobial herbs.

It's not about just doing the detox and drainage properly. It's about rebuilding the body almost first, getting the mitochondria and the minerals going. and then taking that next step, making sure that you have B12. So your liver is working appropriately folate. So your methylation pathways are working appropriately. When we go from there then I have a path that I typically work on that works for about 70% of the people I work with. Otherwise we custom fit everything to each person. But the most common path forward is once we've done all that work, we go to parasite bacteria, mold, radioactive elements, metals, yeast, and viruses, and it's in that order.

If I had to pick an order which, like I said, for each person, you know what you have. We're going to go that way. But that order in here is the secret sauce of why parasites come first. They're large so they can block up pathways. They can get in your liver, your length and your gut, and they can actually block the pathways from working so they can actually stop you from having proper detox and drainage. So people say do your detox and drainage before you actually go after microbes or after before you start trying to actually move metals and toxins.

Parasites fall kind of in between that for me, because you've got to get things out of the way. Before you can go after the other stuff. So when I hear do mold first, to me that means my first thing with mold is get into a safe environment. Yeah, remove this. Open up drainage, detox, remove organisms that would block proper detox from the entire body. Then go after the mold. Once we have you in a place where your body can get it out so you don't have recirculation because you're draining your brain, your heart, your lymph, your lungs, and it gets close to the liver and there's liver flukes in the way, and then it just recirculate back into the bloodstream through the gut.

And we just don't want it to. We don't want to be dealing with that sort of situation that creates more inflammation, side effects, hurts and problems. Yeah. And that's important to know about mold because a lot of people think, well, mold, you just got to get out of the moldy home or they just get away from the source and then, you know, your body will heal, which which is ideally the case, but mold will colonize inside the body. And if your drainage systems are not working right and your mitochondria isn't working right and you're overloaded with with parasites and different opportunistic microbes, then that's going to slow down your ability to eliminate those or even block it altogether.

So, there's a process that you need to go through when you're dealing with mold toxicity in the first step, like you said, like you said, it's just get remove the source, get out of there for sure. Right. Can't heal until you get out of there. But then, you know, working with a practitioner like you and your team going through this sort of protocol is going to allow you to break down kind of the the areas where mold

Clinic Programs and Closing Remarks 30:45

is colonic colonize and be able to safely and effectively eliminate that. Absolutely. And that's that's another thing that's missed so much is that colonizing mold. So if you've moved out, you've taken all the charcoals of acid zeolites and you're like, I'm still not getting better. Mold colonization is a real possibility. Where do you see it most commonly colonizing? Like what areas of the body? The only way we can really test for it is looking at an organic acid test. I don't know of another test that even recognizes that as a possibility.

And in those tests, they're talking about the gut. So I think for sure, gut is something that we can probably at least have some good research to back up that claim. beyond that mold is something that if you look at a home that's mold, you can go literally anywhere. So anywhere you have broken down tissue, poor blood flow. I think mold can probably get there. I just don't know that we have the backed up research to prove it yet. Yeah, I think I always think of like the mucous membrane. So you got it.

You got a lot of mucus in the gut, that region, also in your sinuses and respiratory tract. So lungs, sinus regions, your chronic sinus infections, things like that. oftentimes when somebody has a chronic sinus infection, a lot of times I think mold is playing a role in that obviously could also be, certain types of bacteria. Mark cons. Right. Some different things like that, that could be taking place, but, I always get get suspicious of mold with that. But they agree. Yeah. For sure. Well, great.

Well, obviously you have programs where you can walk people through this sort of thing. Can you tell us more about how those programs work? So if you, look us up, which is Redefining Wellness Center, that's our clinic. You can find us @drjabanmoore on Instagram, Facebook, TikTok. and how what we do is we have a couple of different options for you, but we're going to take run labs, do a custom fit program, and then walk you through that step by step by step with everything that I talked about today, because we know how difficult it is when you're dealing with chronic inflammation, chronic symptoms, chronic illness.

It can be complicated. And we want to be there to hold your hand and take you through it. Absolutely. So guys look him up drjabanmoore.com And again he's all over social media as well putting out great content. Thanks again for your time, Dr. Jaban. Appreciate you and we'll see you all on a future interview. Be blessed everybody.