Discover The Relationship Between Terrain And Gut Health

Introduction and Guest Background 0:00

Welcome back. We are continuing our conversation on Reversing Chronic Gut Conditions. I'm your host, Sinclair Kennally, and today I am joined by the wonderful Dr. Maya Shetreat She is phenomenal. She has quite the wide range of skill sets and contributions to make in this world, and not the least of which is her latest book, which is calledThe Master Plant Experience. Today we're going to do a deep dive because she can speak to many topics as a neurologist, an M.D., an herbalist, an ancient astrologer, and the author of The Dirt Cure.

She's also the founder of Quantum Drops. We're going to talk about what that is and why that might matter to you and as well as the Terrain Institute. So you know that there's going to be a lot of overlap between what she cares about, what I care about and what we're both here to help support you in exploring as you take back power over your own health journey. So welcome, Dr. Maya. It's so great to have you here. Thank you so much for having me. Awesome. Well, I want to make sure that we got somebody in that was really credible.

And to this event who can speak to taking your health back into your own hands. You know, what is this personal power journey like for people who have been chronically ill, perhaps for quite some time, that can really speak with grace and with depth to, you know, the layers that happen to the body and the consciousness. When you have perhaps survived some trauma, life trauma, as well as, you know, trauma to the body. And what does that mean when we're really experiencing ourselves as these multi-layered conscious beings?

Right. What does that mean for our healing process and our healing exploration? So the first question I would like to ask you to help ground our listeners who might not be familiar with your work is could you tell us a little bit about your journey and how you ended up being an expert at these quite diverse layers of healing? Yeah. Yeah. And I think it's actually probably pretty relevant to what a lot of people may be thinking about in terms of their own experiences. Because I think, you know, people hear, okay, you're a neurologist and I'm adult and pediatric neurologist, conventionally trained, you know, did the whole medical route of training.

And and then I did pediatrics and then I did neurology. I did the whole the whole gamut. And, you know, I'm a big science nerd. I love science. I love I love learning about mitochondria and microbiome and, you know, the whole beautiful science of relationship and community, which is just, you know, systems, biology and really starting to understand that and, you know, I, I realized there were parts of me

Journey Through Medicine and Personal Awakening 2:54

that were not really getting to be expressed in this mainstream way of practice. And, you know, I was always this probably won't surprise at least some people if they're familiar with my work at all. But I was always like the resident who was asking questions that made my attendings angry. And it wasn't because they were I didn't think they were controversial, but I would say, well, why does it seem like all the patients here have immune dysfunction right on the pediatrics for every patient, the seizure patient, the Crohn's patient?

That right. I would say like everyone here is dealing with immune dysfunction. Why is that? Like it was so controversial to ask those questions. So there was a point in time, you know, for me and we talked about this before we started recording that, you know, there are these what I call is their provocations. And people call them spiritual awakenings, they call them initiations, and they can be all of those things. But for me, I call them provocations because they provoke us out of our our comfortable narratives.

And when I say comfortable, I don't really mean like comfortable, like it's so yummy and wonderful. It's more familiar, therefore comfortable, even if it's not very pleasant. And for me, there were things that were pleasant and things that were not pleasant. But my son, my youngest son, I have three children that I had over the course of my medical training. He got sick. And, you know, that kind of extracted me from all the kind of, I'll say, brainwashing that went into my medical training. Part of medical training is, you know, thinking in a very particular way, in a very particular paradigm.

You know, that's like understanding standard of care and understanding, you know, the way everybody thinks in the medical world and so it pulled me out of that. And I started studying and learning and going into the medical literature and ultimately was practicing integrative medicine. I became an herbalist. I really was doing, you know, looking at diet, looking at nutrition, looking at supplements in neurology. And at the time, I think I was one of the very few, if not only people who was really doing that, especially for pediatric neurology.

And then some years later, this this son, my youngest son, you know, and I think of our children as being spiritual teachers to us very often. And we're not the only spiritual teachers out there, but they certainly can be a very high level teachers. You know, he got sick again and that ended up sending me on a trip to Ecuador. I'm going to skip a lot of the kind of details in that. But I was really looking for healing for my son. And in the process it ended up being a huge education for me and actually was a healing process for me in my own life.

That really ended up making me question a lot about the life I was living and the narratives that I was living into and and it ended up taking me on a whole journey to learning with indigenous teachers, to studying mysticism, to this whole, much richer way of looking at the world, which, you know, for me, I see science as a language that is one of many that describes mystery. So I love science. I think, you know, astrology, indigenous science, mythology are all ways to engage with mystery and that's, I think, one of the hardest parts of the human condition is is really the unknown.

You know, it's engaging with the unknown and being comfortable with that discomfort around knowing. And these languages are so beautiful because they give us ways of navigating and road maps through the unknown. But we can't erase the unknown. Right. That's it's part of the human condition. So so that's been kind of my journey that took me into creating the Terrain Institute, that took me into learning about master plants, into astrology, all these different things. And for me, I think what I would just kind of how I would end that story is what it required was breaking out of a lot of narratives that, you know, like I published a book with Simon & Schuster in 2016 and, you know, I was on the Dr.

Oz Show and I did The New York Times thing and all of that stuff. And, you know, I was advised like, Oh, great, this is the thing you should be doing now. And it's not that I'm not doing that. Everything I'm doing is building on the next thing. But what I realized is, you know, when we ignore parts of us that are authentic and important, we're going to feel we're going to feel bad. I mean, we talked about this a little bit, but this idea of feeling lonely. A lot of my work is really around this sense of existential loneliness.

And the existential loneliness is when we don't when we're not in honest, authentic relationship with ourselves, first and foremost. Oh, let's talk about that for a second. So that because you just said a mouthful and I want to make sure that we get a chance to unpack it. That's so many people that come through our practice and in our courses, I think can relate to what you just said, this existential loneliness. And one of the first places I see that show up is in the gut and in the terrain of the microbiome, right?

So we have this like amazing, you know, intuition center in the gut. And I'm so excited to talk to you about this today because I know that you can speak to this as an MD and also at the spiritual level and the energetic center level. So could you share with us you're in any insights you have in the way you think about, you know, persistent chronic conditions and the relationship there to like these underlying aging issues that have not been addressed. It's existential loneliness, you know, and any other pieces that you want to include in that.

Yeah, well, the first thing that comes to mind is actually, you know, neurons. And we have neurons in our gut, obviously, right? Enter neurons and we have neurons in our brain and in neurons when we feel depressed, when we feel lonely, our neurons become less connected. So like our neurons literally mirror our loneliness, they express loneliness, they, there are fewer connections between neurons. And that is really, really important because we are made of connections. We only exist as connections.

We're not, you know, we're not and we're not a thing, right? We're a universe. We're filled with billions of organisms and mitochondria which are actually evolved from bacteria, you know.

Loneliness, Cell Danger, and Chronic Illness 10:21

Right. Long, long, long, long, long ago. But our mitochondria actually, you know, our partners in our cells that were not eukaryotic, they helped us evolve. And so we have this whole community within us. In fact, another example of that loneliness is when our cells are in cell danger, our mitochondria change. So healthy, happy, safe feeling cell will have mitochondria that are branched and long and they look like spaghetti and and they're and they're in communication with each other. When a cell is in danger mode, mitochondria go into meatball configuration and this is what mitochondrial researchers call it.

So I'd love to take credit, but it's not my words. It's the words of Dr. Robert Navy. I was like a dear friend of mine and an amazing mitochondrial researcher. So, you know, so it's like meatballs and spaghetti. But you can imagine, right? A meatball. It's not it's not branched out. It's not touching the other mitochondria. And they're not exchanging information. They're not exchanging nutrients. They're not detoxifying as well. They're isolated. So, again, everything is everything's a mirror of everything else.

Our neurons are mitochondria, every one when we are in danger existentially. Right. It doesn't have to be like there's a lion in the room. It could be. We feel like there's a lion in the room. Right. And this goes back to trauma, big trauma and small trauma, which we can talk about, both of which I think are really important. You know, our our cells change, our neurons change, our mitochondria change. And in our guts, our guts change, our flora, our mitochondria, our microbial, microbial community also changes so that certain flora become more predominant and others less so.

We have less diversity. And diversity is the name of the game when you want to have a healthy gut. So so the story is that loneliness and isolation exist on every level for us, in our guts, in our brains, in our bodies, in ourselves. And part of the reason this happens is because our cells have memories. Now, this sounds like a very little thing, but it is absolutely scientific. Cellular memory is a thing. And now you understand, right, when we talk about mitochondrial configuration, why cellular memory is a thing, right?

Because when the cell is in what we call cell danger mode, the cell is going to be more focused on protection than it is going to be focused on growth, you know, and optimal function and well-being. So in that so this cellular memory, what's really interesting about it is it it's impaired. The cell is impacted. The memory could be a physical memory. It could be an emotional memory. It could be a spiritual memory. It could be a a lineage memory. Right. Epigenetic. But the cell does not differentiate in the in the way it expresses distress.

It will express it as like physical or mental distress. So we have very, very real physical symptoms and, you know, disease or mental health conditions that are absolutely real. It's not like, oh, this is just, you know, your cellular memory. It's real. This is what makes symptoms. But the cell might have been experiencing a trauma that is emotional or is more spiritual or is like, you know, being bullied in, you know, by a teacher or fifth grade. Right. That like it changes the way your cells operate your cells.

Remember that. And then sometimes it's really hard for us to break out of that memory. It's hard to shift out of that cell danger. And we can end up in that for a very long time. That is the root of chronic disease, and it's happening at every level. The gut, the brain, the body. And, you know, and that's how we get stuck in long term chronic illness. Wow. What a beautiful way to summarize that. You know, so many people gloss over this piece and they talk about the cell danger response in our great, great work of Dr.

Robert Navarro, which is so phenomenally interesting and it's really only a few years old. But all you hear people talk about is how the mitochondria shut down and not really about the cellular memory piece and how that plays a part. So it's so interesting because I know a lot of our listeners are going to be feeling validated right now and some of our listeners are just taking control over their health journey right for the first time. Like, Okay, I'm going to take it out of the white coats hands and into my own.

I'm going to go off and explore. And then some people are, you know, I'm I lovingly call them my summer junkies. You know, they've they're inhaling podcasts and summits. They're like, Well, what else do you got, man? Like, I know. Is there one jam I can hear today that I haven't heard before? And they have they're taking total responsibility. Whatever it takes. I'm on this journey until I feel like myself again. What would you say to those two listeners as they explore this concept for themselves and how it might apply to their chronic conditions?

Yeah, I mean, I would say maybe it's not even about feeling like yourself again, but maybe it's about, you know, emerging as who you are right now feeling. Well, absolutely right. That is that is the goal. But also being ready for it. Right. Understanding that this is a transformative experience, going through a profound physical health or mental health challenge is is transformative. It's meant to be transformative. And the goal is to not just get better, but to really accept yourself, to look at the things that are hard to find pleasure, even when you're in struggle, wherever you can find it.

This is not I'm not I'm not being glib. I'm not saying this is an easy thing, but it is it takes practice, you know, to be like, I'm just going to appreciate the sunset today or I'm going to, you know, just spend a little time with someone that I enjoy or whatever it is, you know, it's it's, you know, understanding that it's not just about getting to the other side, but it's about living as richly as possible on that journey as well. It's really beautifully said. And I remember being very, very chronically ill and having no energy to live my life feeling extremely fragile and porous.

And one of the few things I could do as a meditative practice at that time, having been somebody who had already gone through all the certifications in the trainings for the rapid change like therapy and systematically survival. And I really felt I knew my shit and then I was so sick I couldn't use any of it. Thank you. This is a very interesting initiation. I remember one thing I could do was look out the window as I was sitting there on my couch in a deep depression, right. Sunk in the middle of my symptoms.

And I could meditate on the plants outside because they had no resistance to them. And I could just notice how healthy they were and how they proliferated their lives and how they were literally keeping me company right when I felt that the loneliness like the loneliest.

Plants, Relationship, and Healing Support 18:30

I felt like I'd been left for dead by God. But I could feel the aliveness of nature around me, even just through the window, and be like, okay, I'm here. And this this part is safe right now. I know so much of your work is about plant wisdom, and I really want to give you a chance to talk about that today and what that means to you and how you're exploring it as a healing tool for people today in this society. Yeah, that's you know, your story is so beautifully said, and I know that the experience, you know, you can talk about it now in the fullness of the experience.

But, you know, a lot of us have gone through physical, mental, emotional or spiritual experience. There's that really took us into the underworld. And, you know, we don't know if we're going to emerge, you know, but we do generally emerge somewhere eventually. Right. And, you know, you just touched on such a beautiful way that plants support us. So what you know, one of the things that I think is the remedy for this existential loneliness that we experience, some of which is, you know, us feeling alienated from our our own bodies, especially when we're sick.

You know, we get a lot of blame, you know, or I hear people, you know, talk I talk about this is like the war on model, right? The war on bugs, the war on, you know, cancer or the war, right? I mean, these things. Right. It's like we're at war with ourselves in a sense. And I call that the US versus them model. And we have it in a lot of ways, like it's the war on drugs, the war on, you know, weeds, the world. Right. Or everything is like a war. And and what's your answer? You know, hashtag fuck the answer and think, oh, wait a minute.

Whoa. You talking about your body here right now? Well, and we feel so and so it's no wonder we feel so disconnected and alienated from ourselves and each other. Right, because we're in this such a us versus them paradigm. So you know what? I and that is totally inaccurate, I might add, right? I mean, what we know about our bodies, about the natural world, about nature and plants and even microbes. Right. Is that it's we all were made up of microbes. We're all bright. We're all part of everything else.

There's no part of us. We don't we don't exist as a thing that is static. Mm. I'm not Maya. You're not Sinclair. As like something that, you know, today versus tomorrow, we're complete, we're different. And part of why that is, is because we actually are made of relationship. We're made of the relationships that we have with microbes were made of the relationships we have with our mitochondria were made with them, made of what were the relationships we have with our food and what we ingest, how we spend our time, the people where around the information we consume, do we listen to music?

You know, do we dance? Do we whatever. Right. I mean, I'm I'm what poetry do we read? I don't know. We're we're made of all of that. And this idea that we're these static beings is the only way we can really think about us versus them and have it make any sense. But it really it really isn't the case. So to your your point of this sort of, you know, how can the plants us, you know, first of all, just understanding that plants aren't things, they're not commodities, they're not resources, and they're not just here for us, but they're like family, right?

They're part of their they're their own lineage. And they're actually a lot older than we are. They've been around a lot longer than we've been. And they have wisdom. You know, one of the chapters in my books when my book is called Plants Are Beings, and it's really all about the science around plant consciousness and how we think of plants as being not, you know, we are like, we're the only, you know, we and animals have brains and we're the only ones with consciousness. Well, it turns out if we think about plants as being upside down, people.

Okay, I put that in quotes. Their neural networks are their root systems and they have memories. They make plants, they, they, they partner, they have they know their own family. They're very, very similar in many ways. Only they're not even constricted by the by a brain, I mean by a skull. Right. They don't need to have a brain in a skull. They have a giant neural network, you know, in some cases, like, you know, there's an Aspen in Utah. I think that is over a hundred miles of root system. Yeah, very famous.

And so so plants are very intelligent and plants communicate, you know, through their chemists, actually, and all of the alkaloids, all of like the fragrances, all of those things that we experience. Plants are very, very skilled chemists, much more skilled, much more rapid in their ability. They can draw a predator from very far away and bring it to us, bring it to eat a pest that is attacking the plant. Now, why am I saying all of this? It's because they're first of all, because it's amazing. And I think that like wonder and awe as its own kind of medicine, but also because when we understand that we have this kind of support that is all around us.

And you describe something so beautiful when you talked about you could look out the window and feel like feel the aliveness of the plants. And that was a healing medicine to you. There's so much interesting data on people who are in the hospital, who are looking at a brick wall out the window or who can see trees. And the data shows that if you see trees, you will have fewer surgical complications, you will have fewer pain complaints, you will need less post-operative medicines. You will be discharged sooner. Right.

I mean, there's very impressive data just from looking out the window at a tree. So powerful, right. To know that this is before any ingestion, this is before anything else. Simply being in the presence, being able to visualize and feel that aliveness. We are supported by the plants. So how much more so then could we be supported under the right circumstances when we ingest a plant as an herbal medicine or in some other capacity? And one of the ways that I've studied really deeply is working with master plants, which are plants that are very powerful, neuro active plants, which include psychedelic plants but is not limited to psychedelic plants.

So master plants include cacao, include coffee, just as an example, tobacco is a master plant, which is a kind of a controversial one. And I write about it in my book because tobacco is a very powerful, fascinating and sacred medicine that, you know, we have gotten into a complicated relationship with. But and then there are these psychedelic plants that, you know, have kind of hit the headlines a lot lately, like psilocybin, mushrooms, like ayahuasca, like San Pedro, cactus like iboga. And so I wrote a book about these plants and all of the things that we're really talking about in terms of, you know, how can they support us in this human condition that we're in right now of existential loneliness? Wow.

So I want to give you a chance to Mythbusters a little bit about this, because I know this is there's a little bit of sensationalism that comes with the concept of master plan, since here, you know, you put it very beautifully about what's hit the headlines lately. Right. And I really want to give our audience who's on the hunt for, you know, solutions for their chronic conditions and wants to explore avenues that maybe haven't been previously try to plan. Like, of course, we're now going to be not talking about probiotics here, like go out and buy some probiotics that's covered by somebody else.

Let's explore something different and new today that maybe you haven't been exposed to before. Right. So to do that, let's let's unpack a little bit more what you mean by these master plants and how they can help people with chronic conditions. And I would love for you to meet us along the way. Any outdated conceptions that you think are harming this potential relationship that people can have? Yeah. So the first thing I'll say is I'm not, you know, I'm not recommending people run out and do illegal activities. Right.

So we do have a lot of decriminalization happening across the United States, across the world. It's important to know if you're in a place where it is decriminalized and so on, and there are also ways to engage that are legal throughout the country as well, you know, and then to know that not everything

Master Plants, Psychedelics, and Safe Use 28:00

psychedelic is a big, you know, psychedelic trip, you know, not everything is this microdosing experience where you're altered in these really significant ways. You can also micro dose, you can also contain dose. So we can talk about that. But I just want to kind of frame it that way because there are a lot of people who just know, like the hippies did that in the sixties and a lot of people, you know, went crazy, I think is like a, you know, a concern. A lot of people, especially who are around at that time have or it's illegal or etc..

So I just want to frame it like that. And in terms of like what is the data showing, right? Let's just start there because there is sort of sensationalism and definitely, I think a desire on the part of people who are big psychedelic proponents to kind of make it sound like psychedelics can do no wrong and I am definitely a measured advocate. So I told you before we got on that I kind of got pulled into the master plan, psychedelic world a little bit kicking and screaming. I wasn't like, you know, I'm not rah rah about it.

I think that there is a tremendous potential for benefit, but what I want to start by saying is these are powerful tools, they're powerful plants and and we don't always know how to have a good relationship with power. So, you know, some examples of powerful master are plants are like we talked about tobacco, right? Tobacco is used around the world by by shamans and by sacred, you know, practitioners in ceremonial capacities. It's considered one of the most sacred medicines. In my book, I talk about the fact that one of the stories about tobacco is that humans were created by the tobacco spirit so that we could honor so we could honor tobacco.

That was the whole reason humans were created in this one kind of creation myth. So that's how powerful and important that plant is. And yet look how we engage with tobacco, right? Similar to the opium poppy, a beautiful, very medicinal master plant. But when you take it into opioids. Right. And fentanyl and all these things like, well, not a good thing, but that's not the plant. That's like how we are interacting, right? So why I wrote a book and why I talk about it is because the most important thing is our relationship, right?

Going back to relationship, always going back to relationship, our relationship with the plant, our relationship coming with reverence and humility and care and consideration. That is the the foundation science wise. We know that there are tremendous studies that actually date back to the 1950s, but many are current right now, academic institutions that any top academic institution you can think of has a has psychedelic research going on right now. I mean, Harvard, Johns Hopkins, NYU. I mean, if you go to my website, you'll see we have available a lot of interviews with people with some of the top scientists in the world overseas, everywhere.

It's happening, everywhere. This research and what we're seeing is for addiction of any kind. You know, whether it's tobacco or alcohol all the way to heroin and methamphetamine and other things for OCD, for major depression, for eating disorders, for PTSD, for sexual trauma, just to name a few, right. There is data, growing data and sometimes very impressive data that shows that one dose with the right support before, during and after. That's a very important part. Right. This isn't like, you know, I'm not saying going out into nature and tripping with mushrooms could not be an incredibly healing experience.

Many people do experience healing wonderful things that way. I'm not I'm not saying that. What I'm saying is in the scientific literature and in the studies, all of the benefit is in the context of support before, during and after therapy and support. Okay. But it's not just the therapy that's doing it right. And it's not necessarily just the master plant right. Or the psychedelic that's doing it. It's it's this combination. There's now growing data on Microdosing around things like dementia and depression and pain syndromes like migraines and cluster headaches and trigeminal neuralgia.

They're looking at things like Crohn's and colitis. There's a tremendous growing literature. Microdosing is a little more difficult to study because of legality. You know, if you have to if you want to study psychedelics in a macro dose environment, you can do the support before the person comes in for 5 hours, 7 hours, whatever it is, has the experience. They don't leave with any psychedelic, you know, doses of any kind. And then they come back for follow up with Microdosing you can do your life, right?

Microdosing is a sub psychedelic experience where you can go to work, you can, you know, parent, you can do everything. It's completely you're you might feel slightly different, but it's not altering so that you can't function. What that means is, you know what? You're going to go to, you know, the hospital for your dose and sit there for 5 hours, then, you know, just for microdosing and you don't even really feel altered like nobody's going to do that. So therefore the studies are less. But we're seeing really interesting benefit with Microdosing.

So we have a lot of data, you know, in terms of the myth busting, I think there's, you know, a lot of narratives around psychedelics and they're not all completely wrong. It's just, again, it's how are we going to how are we going to navigate this in a respectful, reverent, humble, careful way? Those are some beautiful keywords. You're just going to be respectful, reverent, humble, curious. It's really great. Okay. So I know that you have been experimenting and even created a way for peopleto experience master plant information in a legal and safe way with your quantum traps.

And you explain what that means. Sure. So I grow some of the master plants, not for my own ingestion, but just to be in relationship with the plants and learn from them. So I'm a big believer that tending is a really important part of of healing and of living. You living a purposeful life. So for me, you know, part of how I learn from the plants is by caring for them. And, you know, I have some funny stories about it in my book, but but in the process of doing this, tending, you know, the plants kind of transmit information, if I could say that.

And, you know, this is actually something that indigenous healers talk about quite a bit. There's a concept or a practice called Icarus, which are songs that are sung by the Iowa Sparrows, by the the ceremonial healers in Iowa. The ceremonies and the Icarus are like transmissions from the plant musical, all transmissions that come through the the Iowa's ghetto. And they sing them. And they are they say basically this as powerful and as potent as ingesting the plant. Like you don't evenhave to ingest the plant.

If you hear the Icarus, then the plant is doing its work on you in a very potent way. And if people have ever experienced Icarus, they are very powerful and will change how you feel completely so that's vibrational medicine. Okay. And we're learning now like kind of in the whole quantum medicine, quantum biology world, that sound, light and a lot of other things are much more potent medicines than we ever thought. I don't think we ever thought they were. But modern medicine has disregarded them, right?

I mean, indigenous science and indigenous medicine has always considered vibrational medicine and quantum medicine to be important. And I talk quite a lot about that in my book. But in this case, these quantum drops are made with the plants, but not from the plants, meaning I don't harvest, you know, a big chunk of the ayahuasca and grind it up and cook it and make it integrate. Know the way that it's done is in ceremony with the plant at certain times of month, year, right. So the light is in a particular way and the songs of the plants are actually played during it where we actually measure and play the music of the plants.

During this experience of creating the quantum drops and even the place that they're bottled, we have

Quantum Drops and Where to Learn More 38:00

medicine songs being played while they're being bottled, you know, so it's a whole right, we have prisms in the room, right? So there are like rainbows in the room, music in the room. It's very ceremonial from beginning to end. And so the quantum drops are safe, legal for people who are very sensitive. Some people really find big experiences with psychedelics to be retraumatizing to their bodies because they're so drastic and they're they're very sensitive. Right. And and if they are in a place of nervous system dysregulation, which a lot of people with gut issues are.

Hello? Yeah. Right. And anyone who's been through Big T trauma and often people with little T trauma, right, which is many of us, some people have phenomenal experiences doing a big macro dose. But for other people, it's not the approach they feel comfortable with. Sometimes you want to make sure it's legal. Sometimes it could be, you know, they're pregnant or they're on medications or they have chronic health conditions that might render them, you know, really concerned. Or maybe it even, you know, they have mental health conditions that preclude taking big doses of psychedelics, even in a, you know, academic setting.

So quantum drops are something which have the medicine of the plants in a in a way that is both gentle and potent and of course, as a doctor, I felt at first working with these, like I was like, is this effective? Like, is this really going to help people? And I started working with it, you know, with consent, with people who were interested and it retreats. So we did it in person. I did it, you know, in a lot of different ways. And the the effects were very, very impressive. And the reason I think that is, is because our bodies are our vibrational and we don't always need a big sledgehammer approach to experience the healing medicine of any of anything of another person.

Right. Even let alone a plant. And so I've seen really profound outcomes with the quantum drops. Is so cool. So where can people find out more information about your work and you know how to continue their own research into, you know, using this as a modality in their own exploration and healing? Yeah, the best place to go is always my website,which is drmaya.com. drmaya.com. And I have my book here actually,which is The Master Plant Experience. This is actuallya slice up from an Iowa's vine. So that is another, another way in.

And on my website you can actually get the first few chapters for free. So if you feel like you want to, you don't want to commit to the whole book, you can always start that way and really everything is there. I have a lot of free resources, you know, my, my goal is just for for people to have tools to make this, you know, journey through Earth school a little more a little more manageable and maybe purposeful and maybe joyful. Right. That's it. Such a gorgeous way to and thank you so much for sharing your journey today with us, for sharing your wisdom and this whole exploration for, you know, your courage and the thoughtful way that you shared this intimate experience, I think is really eye opening.

You know, we need to approach, I think, any aspect in any modality of healing with this level of care and this measured curiosity and respect and humility and grace. And then that's when the miracles really happen. Yeah. Yeah. Thank you so much for being with us today. Thank you so much for having me. It was a pleasure.