How To “Do Your Own Thing” in Private Practice

Introduction and Doctor Marissa's Background 0:00

Today I've got Doctor Robert Tan Marissa, who is the top rated, by people by Google. Gastroenterologists in the greater Houston area. She's been practicing gastroenterology for 13 years in Katy, Texas, which is just west of Houston. And she, is a practice owner, and she is a phenomenal, with the patients. And, she's developed this group called the Southern Medical Group. Within the Katy, Texas. And I'm so honored to have her on today, because being a physician and being in a previous partnership and then deciding to leave and starting your own thing is not an easy decision.

And, through that, she's learned a lot about the business of medicine. So love having you on today. So thank you for coming on, doctor Marissa. You know, I've been really looking forward to this talk for, for a while. Rest is, like, sexy. You agreed to be on and, and, you know, you didn't know this, but you are the top rated Google reviewed doc, gastroenterologist in the greater Houston area, so that might be no idea. Thank you for telling me. And that's a that's a great honor for me. Thank you.

Yeah. No problem. By the way, we know this because, you know, I do what patients do. I Google and then you you screen by like like GI doctor and then you go on Google reviews and that pops up like the top reviews. And I was like, whoa, you're number one. That was really cool. So you must be doing something right? Right? I certainly hope so. Yeah. Great. So we're going to get get right into it. So let's talk about your, your background a little bit, because when we met, you were in your previous practice.

Right. How did you make that sort of transition from your previous practice? And what was the structure of the previous practice into your own practice? And business development and stuff like that? Some of the story behind solutely. So, you know, I came out of training, here in Galveston and, I wasn't, wasn't very sure of myself. And I felt like I needed to be part of a practice that was already there. So I wasn't, you know, really confident enough to go out on my own at the time, ended up that I joined, a group of two other practitioners who were, fairly seasons.

They had been practicing for quite a number of years and had a very good established practice. And, I was very fortunate because they were very kind to me. They nurtured me. They, allowed me to to do what I, you know, thought I needed to do and to grow in and support me. So it was really a very nice practice. And I was there for about 13 years. And, I began to I got to a point where I felt like I needed to do more for my patients. I felt like what I had learned, in training was just not enough, to really make a difference on some of the patients that I was seeing.

And so you don't you you only get so far when you keep prescribing a medication and doing the same test over and over. And I realized the value of nutrition in the practice. So somewhere probably about oh seven, eight years ago, I really realized that there was a huge need for me to, to go a little bit beyond I needed to talk about their stressors. I needed to talk about their nutrition, to really make a difference. And so that's when I started exploring that. And what I realized very quickly was that the insurance model didn't really support that.

And so I felt really stuck. I felt like I was just not not really doing what I wanted to do. And, I also opened my eyes to the world of functional medicine. And so, exploring that really, again, gave me a different perspective on what I could do in terms of offering a more complete gi, care to my patients. And, and that's, that's where I sort of branched off and, developed a practice that I think is, is more holistic, a little more, involved in terms of really getting to the root cause of disease.

Right. So, so, but you were in that practice for, for 13 years. Yes. So, it's a 13 year. Okay. Well, you know, again, I think it was comfortable. It was it's kind of the fear of the unknown. And I wasn't sure what I'd be able to do this on my own or not. And, I was I was very comfortable in all saying, I'll start seeing that 13 years is actually pretty short because a lot of people are listening to it. They're like 25 years into practice, 30 years into practice, and they're like, I want to do me now.

You know? So I think that, you know, time is relative, but what you identified was that, hey, I want to do something that's more fulfilling for my life. And then you took a risk, right? And that risk something. Something triggered you. Like, there's got to be something that kind of triggers you to take a risk, identify sort of one thing or one event or something that triggered you to take that risk. You know, I, I really didn't feel like I was giving my patients the kind of care that I wanted. And I think that film it.

Yeah, still meant making a difference in people's lives. Not just referring out to other practitioners, you know,

Transitioning to an Integrative Practice 5:47

like nutritionists or whatever. You know, I wanted to be able to do some of that and understand more about where I could be more meaningful in, in the practice, you know, in, in my practice and in my journey and in my care for my patients. So, so that's where that, sort of triggered that whole process. And that's so powerful that you did that because most, most people wouldn't, you know, there's there's a level of comfort that, that you become accustomed to. And I feel like a lot of doctors just kind of shut down.

And even people who are listening to on a summit probably already feeling that way and that, that that shutdown requires some sort of risk taking in order for, for some things to change. So all right, let's talk about your new practice. So I assume you kind of designed it to your liking right. Absolutely. So in my practice today, you know, I get to I get to decide how I want to run the practice. I get to decide who I'm going to hire and who you know, who's not a good fit for the practice. You know, I really value my team members, so I often will ask them for their opinions and sort of factor that in as well.

So the people who are on my team right now are people I really trust to, to continue to evolve the practice the way I'd like to see it. So I, I have a vision for the practice and the people that surround me support that vision, and really align with the concepts that we're trying to deliver. Russell, you said earlier that, you want to incorporate some nutrition into the practice, but the insurance model didn't align with that. But you still currently taking insurance, correct? Correct, correct. I do, and I have really found a way around it.

And, you know, over the years I've always thought should I do insurance, should I do cash pay? And you know, what I realized is that the people who need us the most are the people who may not be able to, you know, outlay the cash that it takes, to really take advantage of our services. So I have continued to use the insurance model, and I feel like I'm successful in that model. And I think it can be done, and that's what I intend to, stick with. Well, that's great. So I think one valuable, aspect of sort of starting your own thing and practice is, is don't let the business sort of drag you away.

So when you really want to do because it's all about who you want to serve, it sounds like who you want to serve. A lot of those people are within the insurance model or the can afford the cash model. And so and there's nothing wrong with doing the cash model for those of you who are listening, because if you want to serve that population, there's nothing wrong with that. You know, you know, another part of the summit, I interviewed Doctor Daniel ehm, and he's been doing the Cass model for, for, you know, over two decades.

And there's nothing wrong with that because it's really about the people that you really want to serve, and there's no two people that are the same. So I commend you for staying with the insurance model, being, one of the few integrative gastroenterologists in the nation. So thank you very much for that. Thank you. And it's great because I can send all my patients your way. So it's kind of nice. That's great. We appreciate that. No problem. So and so tell me some, some maybe some pain points that you kind of experienced when you were trying to, to start the practice.

What what what did you run into that you didn't really expect? So, you know, I think it's all about identifying your patient, selecting the right person for for what you think they need to, do in terms of, taking control over their health. And, I really have to meet patients where they are. Right? So if they're resistant, if they're not quite where I would like to you know, I know I know what journey I'd like them to take towards better health, but they have to be on board, too. So I think one of the most, challenging things is education and and making sure that the patients understand where we're coming from, why we're recommending the things we're recommending.

I often think that they may be a little bit skeptical about about where we are, where we're coming from. And I try to tell them that we're really coming from a good place in terms of our, our concerns that we expect to guide them through this whole process. And, I think that's really the key is understanding your patient and and meeting them where they are. Yeah. That's so important. And I call it expressing your intentions because, you know, you can't expect the patients to know that your intentions are good.

You want what's the best for them? You got to speak it out loud. And I think that has to come from every member of the staff, especially in an integrative health practice. Right. And so we have to give them that so that they can they can have that level of safety uncertainties. And then we know when they come into the practice or on telemedicine, they're in a safe place. And I don't think that's done very much, within medical practices, because I do not learn that in residency or over medical school.

Right. But I think, but let's talk about some challenges of you running the business when you first started. Are there any, like, business challenges that you ran into? They didn't really expect? There are. And I think when you when you adopt a model like we have, which is an integrative practice, you really, counseling them on so many levels. And I think the biggest thing for us is time constraints. Right. And so when you're in an insurance model, you're used to seeing a certain number of patients, and you're quick and you're you're kind of in and out.

But when you're talking to them about their lifestyle and their stress and their diet and their, you know, whatever else is going on, it really takes time. And so my, my, visits are never going to be 15 minutes long.

Insurance Model, Patient Education, and Business Challenges 11:40

As much as, you know, we think that that should be it. It just doesn't happen that way. So I think and that impacts the business model. Right. So you know, can it be able to keep that volume. So at some point you know you going to have to figure out you talk about the most important things that are that are, you know, at hand right now. And then you see them over the course of time and, and sort of, you know, address the issues as, as a, as you can prioritize them. So I think that's probably one of our biggest challenges in this model.

Of course, you know, you always wonder when you hire a nutritionist, for example, you know, what does that look like? How is that going to be funded? How are you going to support that? And, you know, what does it take for us to be able to fund a good nutritionist? Because they they are very knowledgeable. They're they're training is is really, robust. And so the person that I have in the practice as our functional nutritionist is highly trained. And so of course, you know, she needs to be able to see a certain number of patients to be to be, profit, you know, at least breakeven profitable.

However, we might look at that. But, so those are some of the challenges of course, and making it work in this model. Yeah. So identifying, centers, whether they're cost centers or profit centers, I need the numbers behind it to, to look at that. Right. And sometimes that may not be so easy, especially with the insurance model. You have to determine the revenue cycle. So, there's there's money stuck in the aging claims. 90 day plus aging claims. And, and all of that determines what happens within the insurance model.

And it can be very challenging unless you have some sort of engine or some sort of, know how knowledge to, to give that information. So, let me ask you this, because this next question I am not going to understand. Yeah. Are there any specifics to sort of starting your own business and running a business as, as a woman? And that's an interesting question because I, I do think we face some unique challenges, although I never, and in my mind, that was never a barrier to anything that I did. You know, uniquely, I think we we deal with a lot of different things.

And as women, you know, we worry about how do we handle the kids and the family life, and then how do we balance out that work life? And, you know, I've always thought in my head, I'm going to do the best I can every in everything that I do. Right? So it wasn't ever an option for me to have, a business or deliver care that was suboptimal. So when you want to do the best you can in every facet of your life, and similarly with my kids, you know, have three boys. And, my parents supported me a lot through the initial stages of my practice.

And, as the kids got older, of course it got a little bit easier for me to, to do the things that I wanted to do. And now I have two in college and one still in high school. And, I think they've done okay. And, and we've, we've managed to sort of, be able to handle all of the, pains that that, you know, came, came our way. But, I do think as women, you know, that's one of the barriers, of course. We are we are still a minority in the GI world, I think, you know, the the, yeah. Although, although we, women have become more and more, predominant in the GI space, I do think that when I first started, I was, I was certainly, one of the few female guys, even in the area.

So, I think, you know, overcoming that mindset and, and sometimes the your male colleagues may look at you like, you know what? You know, I do you can you really do this? And you need to be confident of yourself and and show them that. Yes, you're just as good as anybody else. So, so the top rated gastroenterologist in the greater Houston area is a woman. So that's just something, right now. That's great. So, you know, earlier you mentioned kind of, you know, the kids and everything like that. And, work life balance can be quite difficult, especially as a business leader, entrepreneur.

So let's talk about that for a second, because you I recently discovered you do something really cool. I'm not going to talk about it because I don't know what it is. Specifically, but I saw your post on linked and, with an art piece, and so I want, you could just kind of tell everyone what you do and why you do it. That'd be great. Yeah, absolutely. So again, you know, I think this leads back to, taking care of yourself and making sure. Because, you know, life is stressful and there's so many different things, levels of stressors out there.

And I've realized over the years that I have to take care of myself and my own mental, piece, because if I don't do that, I can't take care of everybody around me. So, exercise has become a really big part of my, journey to my own, better health. Of course, nutrition has always been a piece, but during Covid, Covid was an interesting time. And, I think the stress level sort of flared. And I am not somebody who's used to sitting at home. And so, yeah, I found my piece in, in artwork and, and I've, I've dabbled in art over the years, but have never really had the time that it takes to dedicate to it.

So what I did was start, learning about resin art. And so that's what I do. I do resin art pieces and, basically this is a technique of, of just, and I learned it actually online, so I didn't really it wasn't a CMC class or a course or anything. I just did it from the comfort of my home. I watched a lot of videos and, took an online course and, and sort of started experimenting with it. And it's fun when I do, when I do my art, I get to zone out and, it's just me and my art piece and it's wonderful.

That's cool. One of my friends actually was in your office, and I think you have a piece that's in your in your lobby, right on, on the right hand side. It's like a picture was like, oh, look what box Tamaris is. And I was like, what? That is so cool. No, that's that's brilliant. That's amazing. And thank you. And so, and here's, here's the thing. And I think what I see is that most docs like, especially during the pandemic, they, there's nothing wrong with distractions. I think as long as, like, constructive, like learning a new skill, the resin art and stuff like that.

But some people can sort of develop some negative habits during that as well. Maybe not even so. Well, not exercising, alcohol or whatever it is. Right. And so the fact that you actually, like, learned a new craft and you're able to put it out there, I mean, that's just a just so much power to you on that because that is such an accomplishment. And yeah, I didn't know you took an online course for it and you did all that. I mean, that it's beautiful. So good job. Thank you. Thank you. So, and so what do you think?

What do you think was sort of your mindset and engine that during times of stress that you wanted to, to, to be more creative or, or dedicate your time to this because I think most people kind of crumble under the stress, but like, creativity came out of your.

Women in GI and Balancing Family Life 19:30

So what do you think was the mindset behind that? Yeah. Well, I was really fortunate. And you know, I, I look I think we have to take life as it comes in. These challenges are going to come our way at certain points in our life. And I think that the not letting that get you down, but using that energy to create something that is positive. And, you know, for me, there was a little bit of a need I wanted to I wanted to cover my walls at, but I didn't ever, you know, find the right pieces or have the time to go shopping.

And I said, well, let me just see if I can create my own, art out of it. And I had the time. So, so it's going to be much more of my piece. Yeah, yeah, yeah. And I enjoy it. And it's nice to see it up on the walls and people appreciate it. And, it's it's a really nice feeling. And, and you know, what's interesting is I think, is I think that if your patients look at it and say, hey, well, you did something like that, it puts you in such a, like a even unique spot into the brains because, you know, patients may not remember, like, what you say to them, but they'll always remember how they make you feel or how your lobby makes them feel.

Right. And so if you have sort of this art piece on there, there's an expression of, you know, represents you. I mean, that's that's a beautiful thing. And, you know, I call that, you know, passive, it's a passive energy, meaning that there's something that you do, you create and you put it on somewhere and you share and that's passive energy. So art for use, one of them social media is another one. So you create value online. You know, I used to post, photography, photography, all the photographs I used to take, looking at macros and stuff like that.

So that was sort of my, my portfolio that I've built online. So and I still have patients like, hey doctor, I, why don't you post those photos anymore? I was like, oh man. Because I got I got two kids now. And so it's it's so interesting because people remember stuff like that. And these are some of these patients, you know, haven't seen in years. So I get I get some messages from then about my original photographs and how it made them feel. So you never know, like how impactful you are for people in general.

You know, and so you kind of put yourself out there and put your, put your creativity out there, so much power. So we believe that. And I think that's, that's a healing technique in itself. Right. And so it's not necessarily about patient outcomes. It's about how they feel as they are, under your care or as you're guiding them through this. And I think if they can feel the genuine, you know, feeling you have for, for them, they will get better. It's just a matter of, of perseverance. So yeah, in my in my interview with doctor, doctor Aymond, he talks about, he's about authenticity.

Like, you know, for you not to burn out, you really have to be authentic with yourself, your spouse, your your, the loved one around you, with your patients, with your staff. And that authenticity really has to, to come through. And there's a level of vulnerability, that can create trust and beautiful, lasting connections. And I think, you know, you know, I used to, gosh, when we first met, I used to, manage a lot of hospice patients. Right. And so, so I did this post, and people still talk about it is the top ten things I learned from the dying.

It's really conversations, between me and the people who know they're about to pass away. Whether it's in, in a couple days, a week of couple months, most of them are cancer patients and stuff like that. And, one of the things that I, that I wrote on there, the number one thing I wrote on there is that, no one has ever regretted working too little. Right? They always regretted not connecting with someone or a group of people or their family at the end of life. Right. And and I feel like, when I'm always reminded of that, because that every action that I want to take, I want to be proud of, because these things are going to be there forever.

That artwork that you did in your lobby, it's it's going to be there for a long time. It's probably gonna be person generations, you know, the Instagram post that you have will be there for the great, great great grandchildren because Google indexed that already. So it's already there, right. And so I think everything that we put out there is building on our own legacy. So it's really important not to put a lot of negativity out there because that negative energy just compounds and compounds it several generations down.

And that's all we've seen a lot of our, our, our patients and the people we work with as well. So I think as physicians, we it's okay to have a duty for ourselves as well. You know, and that's something I learned not when I first started or not when I finished residency. It's much later. It's okay to have some self-care, even though it feels a little guilty for me. Yes. And I think it's actually vital. And and like you said, you know, you don't learn that early on in your career. It's something that you have to understand as you go along and, and realize how important that is, because that that is something that that will allow you to keep doing what you do as long as possible, right?

Otherwise, we do get burned out and becomes more difficult and challenging to to go day after day. So, you know, absolutely. So, you know, so the you see some very complicated patients, I know because they're mutual to our practice. I know exactly where they are. So, a lot of times with a lot of the really complex patients and time and energy that's dedicated to it, that's got to have some stress associated with it. So how do you, like, not let someone that really affects you? Maybe when you go home in your personal life, like, what do you how do you draw that line? Do you have a technique?

That's a great question. And, and I think, and I probably do it without even thinking about it, but, you know, and this is where your team is really important, right? So I think I'm the one answering that phone call every day, or I'm the one answering that message that comes and, you know, sometimes multiple times a day. Correct. A particular patient, then it does get to you and it does get to be over, whelming, in a sense. But, you know, this is where I think your team is really important. So, I have a great support system, and I use that support system to help me, make sure that we are getting back to patients.

So it's not that we're not answering those calls or messages, but we are. Maybe it's not always me. It's somebody else in the practice who's helping me do that. Again, I think, you know, this is where sometimes you just have to detach and you got to do something that you really enjoy doing so that you can turn your brain off from all that stress.

Resin Art, Self-Care, and Managing Stress 26:40

And, and I think it makes me deal with it better. So I think, you know, I never want a patient to see, you know, maybe that I'm frustrated or maybe that I wish that they would do something different. But but but I will give that information to them in a very positive way. And that's how I want them to see it as a positive change, not a if you don't do this, I'm going to, you know, so so I think as we manage our stress better, I think those delivery, methods become more effective. And you, you're less likely to, show a patient that you're frustrated or angry or whatever.

So I think that's that's really the key is, is making sure that you have the people surrounding you that are helping you deliver the care that you want to deliver. And then detaching at certain times, to make sure that you can kind of renew yourself and, and you can go back to work the next day and, and again, do what you have, what you want to do. Oh, absolutely. And I think that right there, the entire stigma right there is why you have such a high rating on on the Google reviews. There. And so I think that you're right.

I think, you know, and, and, and with me at Texas Center for Lifestyle Medicine and the large team as well. And, it's I think you're right. It's just so important to not let patients like know there's some sort of frustration, because a lot of the frustration it's most likely not their fault is that maybe their their messaging, something that has triggered me from something that's completely unrelated to this patient, maybe from another patient. And then so and that trigger becomes an annoyance.

And then sometimes you say, okay, let's, let's just, let's just take a deep red. Forgive me for that. And that's literally what I do. I do some soft belly breaths. I do, do some box breathing exclamation. Sure, a lot better. And then afterwards, you know, I go and I type and look at like a, like a different person after that. So, and I think that is crucial, not really just with patients, I think with personal life as well, because sometimes when you're a physician, physician, entrepreneur or practitioner in private practice, you go home.

And yes, there's a lot of stuff to be done at home. You know, if I go home and I see this giant pile of laundry, I don't want to necessarily get annoyed. I'm like, okay, let's let's create a structure around this. So that so that, you know, we can get things done and communicate with whether it's our spouses or whoever, we're living with a significant other, or if you live by yourself, just just have some structure to allow yourself to do nothing, maybe have like 15 minutes a day where you just block a little, just do nothing.

There you go. And, and and that's hard. You know, it sounds it is easy, but it is hard to sit and do nothing for that. You know what? 15 minutes is not a long time. But how easy is it to just do that? So you're right, you know, and I think that's great. Yeah. So, this is a great transition. It's really the last point I want to talk about, which is culture. All right. So I'm Chinese, I was born in China and I came to the United States. So for, I have a typical what we like to call immigrant mentality, where, like, scheduling that 15 minutes of nothing is like a huge no, no.

My dad's like, what are you doing? I'm like nothing. He's like, what do you mean you do nothing? Yeah, yeah. You know, and my and you know, my parents and I live in one household, so they're always, with me. We have three generations. One household is wonderful. Wow. Yeah, yeah, yeah. But sometimes I'll come home and and just feels like. Daddy, are you. Are you just judging me right now? You know, but, but I want to talk about culture for a second, because all of us have have sort of different cultures.

And I feel like, no matter what culture, you're in, there's sort of sometimes there's a bit of a blame on sort of the cultural background for a specific action that you sort of experience any of that with your life? Absolutely. In every facet of my life, and my parents are a big part of our lives as well. And, we're we're we're just literally a mile down the street from them. And, there's a huge cultural, influence on what I have done throughout my life. And, there's certain expectations and, that, that you need to fulfill and there's a certain level of, mentality that you want to please your parents.

You you don't want to disappoint them, that you you respect them. You want to make sure that you are doing everything you can to maintain that respect and and maintain their, positive feelings towards you. Right. So, so there is that, cultural, sort of, process that occurs, I think, without even thinking. Right. And, and you're right. And I do think that culturally we are trained to go, go, go and do it, you know, don't waste your time and and you know, that self-care aspect, I think, is really lacking in our parents because they didn't everything they did was for the benefit of somebody else in their life.

They never really thought about themselves. They were never number one. Right. And so, and and also maybe as first generation immigrants, it was, it was a little bit different as well because they needed to provide they needed to make sure that, know they could take care of their kids and that they were successful and huge and huge pressure on education in our in our cultures as well, which I'm very grateful for because thank goodness that, you know, my parents did push me when I was younger to do do the best I could.

So I value that, I treasure that. I think it was all in, in, you know, all in a good way. They, they, they meant to for, for us to have the best of what, what they could provide us and the best for ourselves. So, yes, there's, there is a lot of cultural pressure now, I think that, thinking back and, and sort of now where, where I stand, I understand that self-care is important and I understand that I need to do that for myself. And so, you know, even if my mom says, well, you're going to get a massage or you're going to, you know, do whatever it is that I think I'm doing for myself, you know, there's a little bit of that guilt.

But but she understands, now that that's important to me, and I understand how important it is for myself as well. So. So I think they come around and they they do develop that understanding. It doesn't come quickly, but. Yeah. Yeah, I have a brand new tactic. I just started using last month. And I want to share with you. And so, so whenever we go on sort of these mini weekend trips and stuff like that with my family and my dad just kind of looking at me, I mean, he's invited, he never goes, but but, you know, I have sort of an is this new tactic.

So whenever, like, there's a question about this and I'm like, you know, thank you, mom. Thank you dad, for working so hard to allow me in our family to have this trip. And I just pause. Yeah. The other way. Yeah. You go. There you go. You know, and you out. See. Yeah. Yeah. And my family, you know, no, one of my family expresses emotion. So when I or I say like, that kind of throws them off a little bit, you know, so and then, and then he's like, carry on. Yeah. Yeah. That's sort of my new tactic, behind that.

But I think we do have to address the, the cultural aspect. And it doesn't matter where you're from, there's always a cultural consideration, into our drive, the way we were brought up and everything like that. And I think that if you, if you, if you. We take this from a very holistic perspective. Right. So, so this summit is called the, the Physician Practice Automation Summit. So if you take this from a perspective of what automation is and is basically making some things that are that are very like automatic to allow you for that self care is allow you to, to to have that, that creativity do the resin art that you do.

You know, for me, I it's it's definitely photography. And now my girls have a YouTube channel. So I used to be a professional video editor, so, so I'm doing that too. So, you know, it's that that creativity is very needed. And, and I think for a lot of doctors, there's still a lot of guilt of, of dedicating time to self. So other distractions, you know, kind of come up and and, and we're here to really stop that, you know, and I think you're such a great example with the resin art and everything that you do and, and you still have great, reviews, but it's also a work in progress, you know, where I don't think either of us are necessarily, you know, truly fulfilled where we want to be right now,

Culture, Confidence, and Lessons Learned 35:40

but we're still satisfied as long as we have that, that balance. Right. So let me let me ask you this, this, this question. What, what do you what have you learned now that you wish you knew when you first started the practice? You know, I wish that I had opened my mind to some of these, alternative treatment options. I wish I had learned functional medicine earlier in my career, because I think I would have had even more impact on some of the people that I've seen over the years. And I wish I really had that confidence in myself to do what I wanted to do, you know, at the onset, and not to say that I didn't have a great experience, coming out and joining a practice, but, if I had if I had more confidence in myself, I probably would have, would have done this.

You know, the practice that I have today a lot earlier in my career, but I'm still so grateful that that I made that transition and that I didn't wait any longer than I waited, to get to this point. So, I want to say that if you guys, you know, if you if there's somebody out there that has a dream and a passion and a desire, don't be afraid to take that risk and and do what you think, is best. And, you know, maybe sometimes things don't work out the way we expect, but there's always, a way to find, you know, find your end goal and make your dream come true.

So, I think fear keeps us sometimes inhibited to a point where it's counterproductive. So don't don't be afraid and take that risk. That's right. You know, you got to take that risk and and, you know, take go where your passion takes you. Yeah. So that's such a great advice. And I kind of said it better myself. But, but but definitely for the people who are, who are listening to this, I think the drive for them to listen to this is that they're taking that risk. And either they're thinking about doing it, they've already done it, the early stages doing it or maybe the later, but they want to pivot and take another risk.

Right. And so I will with you. We're all we're on the same crowd here. And I think it's important to to understand why you're doing what you're doing right and what your true true. You know, passion is I think, you know, from a, from a money standpoint or a profitability standpoint that's going to come, it's going to come if you truly do what you believe in and you fulfill all of your, goals and your dreams, you know, don't, don't have money, be the driver of what you do. And I think that's really important because all too often, you know, when money drives us, things don't go the way we we want it to go.

And so yeah. And I've never thought about, oh, I'm going to make money this way or that way, I just do what I want to do what I think is right, what I, what I think my patients deserve. And and the money will come, you know, and I think that's really important to keep things in perspective and, don't want money. Be your goal. No. Absolutely. That's that's such a great topic. And I'm going to leave with this one last question, for you, and is where do you see your practice being in five years? Yeah. What does that look like?

That's great. I get another great question and something that I am sort of toying with. And so, you know, as we, as we discuss the limitations on what we're doing now is that we can only touch so many lives when we're doing things and in the fashion that I'm doing it right now. Right. So I'm seeing a lot of one on one patients and I hire, multiple advanced level practice, you know, advanced practitioners like, in my practice, but it's still one on one care. So I am hoping that at some point I can develop a group model where I can really touch a lot more lives in that time frame.

And I think the, the benefits, we've done a little bit of group work and the benefits of that are significant. And I think people not only are using a practitioner like myself to help them, but they're also using their own peers. And so that impact is is really different. And I think it's it's really phenomenal. And so that's where I'm hoping to take the practice where we can actually had some group, visits and some one on ones and, so that's my next, project. I have a lot of other things that I want to do.

I have books that I want to write. I have courses that I want to develop. And so, you know, those are all my goals over the next five years. I'm hoping that we will have some automation in the practice and that there will be, a bigger reach for us, as we move forward now. Awesome. And you're in luck. There's a whole section in the summit for group visits that we've already done. So, and so this is exactly the summits for us to help with the automation and then also realizing dreams. What does it take for for group visits and stuff like that?

And there's some other people who have sort of been been, in your shoes and wanting to do that, as I've already done it. So and it's just great to have that community. So thank you so much for hopping on today. It's been such a great conversation and it's always nice talking to you. Yeah. And I want to I want to commend you for all that you have accomplished, because I think, you know, when we when we met, we were in our form, our practices. And I think we felt trapped in a way. And we had dreams and aspirations that we weren't able to fulfill and not in that, arena.

But, we both took that risk and we both moved on with, pursuing our dreams. And, I mean, you are you are definitely a role model for me. And you are. You are some of the inspiration that's gotten me to where I am. So I have to thank you for that. You probably don't even know that. But, when we met and you were talking to me about some of the things that you were thinking about, I'm like, wow, you know, that's that's fantastic. And and, I. Yeah, want to appreciate your role in even getting me to where I am.

So I appreciate that very much. And I appreciate all the referrals and the patients that we take care of together. And you are super. And you were, how many years are you into your practice now? Not that many. Not that many. Not that many. So. So you took that risk earlier in, in your career than I did in mine. And and I think that's another, you've achieved so much. So congratulations to you. Thank you, rod, and the lives that you're touching. And and I know that from the patients that we share that they appreciate very much.

Well, thank you very much. So I appreciate that I'm going to totally take this segment and keep it for myself. So, all right. Well, you have a wonderful day. And for those of you who are listening, I hope you really inspired by this talk, because I definitely am. And just keep following your dreams and keep following your passion. Signing out. Thank you. Bye bye.