From “Dis-Ease” To Better Health: A Model for Recovering from Chronic Lyme Disease, Mold Illness, and Related Conditions

Introduction and Guest Background 0:00

Hi everyone. Welcome to Doctor Talks. I'm your host, Doctor Kelly Halderman, and today we have a very special guest that Forest Green Scott is a blogger, functional medicine practitioner, a podcaster, speaker and author. He actually authored an article in The Townsend Letter, July 2022. It's entitled a model for Recovering from Chronic Lyme Disease, Mold Illness and Related Conditions. And today we're going to talk about that with Scott. Welcome, Scott. Thank you, Doctor Kelly. So excited to be here.

Yeah Scott. You know when I got asked to do a doctor Talks here at the top of my list because you are so well versed, so well knowledge in so many areas of health. I know that you've had your own health struggles, and, you know, both you and I had to go through everything to learn everything that we actually have under our belt at this point. And so can we just start by talking about your personal health journey with chronic Lyme disease and mold illness? You bet. Yeah. So for me, it started with a tick bite in 1996, back in the dark ages with the dinosaurs here in Northern California.

And I was fine until April of 1997, so I never made the connection. Started like a flu over the course of a weekend. It was so intense it felt like a flu times 100 neurologic. Typical pain that's head to toe sunburn. Burning sensation that lasted for a long time. Low grade fever that lasted for over a year. Lots of these neurological type symptoms, like this motor like tapping sensation in my left foot that just was constantly there, crawling sensations. It took me 45 doctors to finally get a diagnosis.

And that actually came from an acupuncturist, which I'll talk more about in a moment. But looking at a lot of the symptoms of Lyme, difficulty walking, balance issues, I couldn't sit up in a chair without feeling like I was falling over. I couldn't sleep at night without propping up pillows because I felt like I was going to roll off the bed joint. Pain, muscle pain. Lots of got issues numbness and tingling, fatigue, tremors. This constant vibration, these internal vibrations which we now know are probably more mold and Bartonella muscle twitching.

Light sensitivity sounds sensitive, heart palpitations, just a whole list of things. And so for the most part, with these 45 doctors, what I got was a stack of referrals to a psychiatrist. And I knew it could not be psychological, though, you know, eventually I became open to exploring that. And that is going to be a piece of recovery for many or most people. I was diagnosed with chronic fatigue syndrome and fibromyalgia at that time. It was on the internet that chronic fatigue syndrome generally resolved in about a decade.

And so I thought, you know, that that is not reasonable. I'm not going to wait and see if that happens. So 2005, I started with a new doctor. He sent me to an acupuncturist that worked at an outlet mall next to a coffee shop, and she did electro acupuncture according to vol or Electrodermal screening. He said, find out what foods you should avoid. That really could probably be the explanation for everything you're dealing with and what she said was I would get tested for Borrelia, Bartonella, babka, or licky, all of these vector borne infections.

I didn't take it that seriously. I thought, how am I going to find the answer with this lady working at the outlet mall when 45 amazing infectious disease and neurology and all of these people couldn't find it. Fortunately, she was very persistent in stressing the severity of having these things explored. We did get confirmation some of them we had to repeat a couple of times. We know testing is not perfect, but we did get positive tests for all of those things ultimately. And the doctor I was working with at the time said, you know what?

I just didn't put the pieces together. You have every symptom of Lyme. I work with lots of Lyme patients, but he did get me to the person that was able to put that together. So at that point, the energetic testing that led me to my interest in Doctor Dietrich Klink Hart's work, he has become my biggest mentor. So many ways. Not only was I his patient from 2006 to 2012, and that was a huge part of me getting better. But the framework that he had created, really changed my life in so many ways for the better.

And so fortunately, today I'm doing well. I probably work too much. I love what I do, go to the gym every morning and work out. I'm super blessed. I would say that the message of chronic illness, in part for me,

Scott's Lyme and Mold Illness Journey 4:46

was to take better care of myself, to not do a lot of the things I was doing before. And so I think that is part of the message that we all get from this process of chronic illness. But I am so incredibly blessed and grateful for how well I'm doing today. Yes, I mean, definitely, we share a lot of the same history with chronic illness and going to many practitioners and doing a lot of things and I finally did get a diagnosis to Scott, just like you from a Lyme literate medical doctor. And that really changed the trajectory.

And I know that, you know, a lot of people ask me, Doctor Hogan, what did you do to get better? And it's never one thing. And, you know, it looks like it's been 17 years since your diagnosis of Lyme. And then, shortly after mold. Have you discovered a model for recovering from health? You know, that emerged from that journey? And this is another tough question, is how would you approach recovery if you were do it all over again? Yeah. I mean, it would be nice to have some of the resources that I now understand.

Some of the amazing books, like Doctor Nathan's book Toxic, you know, a lot has really evolved. But I would say first, I was so blessed that the universe connected me to amazing people. Like, sometimes I'm pinching myself, being in a room with Dietrich, Klink, Hart, and, you know, Nathan and Simon, you and Raj Patel, and doing podcast interviews with people like Kelly Halderman. I mean, just helping to hand me pieces of the puzzle so I could then kind of go, okay, this is how it fits together in my brain.

And it's always evolving. The steps are going to change in terms of the order. It's not it's not the case that everybody has to deal with every one of these issues. But hopefully it's a pretty broad way of looking at things at this point. So for me, step one is always going to be detoxification and drainage. Looking at the terrain. Step two is the external environment. So what can we do from a perspective of mold and EMF to create a healing environment around us? Step three is optimizing sleep. Step four is the mental emotional contribution to health and traumas and conflicts.

And those certainly play a role for many of us. Step five is looking at the limbic system, the vagus nerve, the parasympathetic nervous system. How do we calm things down to support healing? We're not going to heal in a sympathetic, dominant state. Step six is looking at immune and inflammatory modulation and mast cell activation those types of things. Step seven is how do we optimize our hydration, our nutrition, our microbiome. Step eight is some supportive interventions like adrenal support. But now even maybe bigger than that mitochondrial support.

And then looking at things like Cryptopia or Luria and hyper coagulation, which I think is probably the biggest overlooked factor in this conversation of chronic illness. Step nine is then getting to the microbial overgrowth, the viruses, the retroviruses, the gut issues, the fungal and yeast overgrowth, Lyme co-infections, all of those things. Step ten is looking at the dental contribution. Some people that could come much earlier. But there is a rationale for why. In my mind, this comes a little later.

Step 11 is, as Doctor David Jernigan would say, once you address the termites, you still may have some structural issues that need regeneration, restoration, repair. So it's what can we do to then really help the body to repair? Great. So we're going to go through each of those in detail. But I love that you start with number one. Your first step is detoxification drainage. I have coined the phrase phase 2.5 detoxification. And by involving bile flow bile production because that is what moved the needle most for me.

So talk a little bit about detoxification and drainage. What's the difference? Why should we pay attention to this? And why is number one in your mind. Yeah. So it's definitely number one in my mind. I think that if we didn't have a toxic terrain, we probably wouldn't have issues with chronic infections like Lyme and co-infections. So optimizing or improving the terrain is the road back to health. In my mind, we know that certain organisms like Candida or Candida or even parasites often are helping the body to protect us from heavy metals.

So a lot of this detoxification is also kind of an indirect anti microbial strategy as well. So you think well he's not doing anything about microbes until the very end. Now we're already starting to put this framework in place to create an environment that is not hospitable to these microbes or doesn't need these microbes in some type of synergistic relationship. So the first step for me is looking at all of the external things that we're bringing into the body. So personal care products, scented products, laundry products, dryer sheets, pure air, pure food, pure water, whether that's reverse osmosis or distilled.

This was an area that I probably didn't focus on as much. Early on. I thought, I'm going to do all these things for detox, but at the end of the day, you don't have to detoxify the things you don't bring into the body. So I think this is important sometimes looking at things like implanted medical devices, whether that's metal implants or breast implants, those can certainly be sources of toxicity, but also sources of immune dysregulation. Detoxification for me is primarily about binders. So once we get the toxins from the liver into the bile, through the gallbladder, into the small intestine, we need something there to bind on to them to minimize their reabsorption or minimize entero hepatic recirculation of bile and thus toxins back into the system.

And so this is the part that I really, kind of really got underscored for me in our conversation on the podcast, and also from some of Chris Shade's work, that even when you're using binders, they may not be very effective if you don't have bile with those toxins getting into the small intestine, moving through the gallbladder into the small intestine, you can take binders all day long. But what if there's nothing there for them to bind? There's nothing for them to meet up with. So, so critical to look at the bile flow piece to optimize what we're doing with binders.

Drainage, for me is about the liver, the kidneys, the lymphatics, the extracellular matrix, which many people don't talk about very, very important the colon, the skin, the lungs. We have to optimize all of the exit routes or among trees thinking about getting people pooping. If you're constipated, then this whole conversation of detoxification really is not going to move past the starting line. You really need to look at that. And then your conversation around phase 2.5 detox. So important we need to make sure that that bile flow is really, really moving to optimize what we're doing here.

And so in the binder realm I think there's lots of great options. I for many years have been a fan of the talk assuming Supreme from Supreme Nutrition. I love the products that Doctor Todd Watts has brought out with the cell core, microbe formulas, products, and then things like zeolite, in some cases, bentonite clay. And we do need to be careful to get clean sources of bentonite clays because they can be contaminated. But bentonite clay, I find, can be very helpful Chlorella as well. And then in the drainage realm, my first go tos are usually homeopathic drainage products.

So things like picanha or energetics or desert bio. They have some fantastic tools we can use herbs as well. So milk thistle or dandelion for the liver or solar, doggo for the kidneys or red root for the lymphatics. And so a lots of good companies that do work in that realm. Trace minerals I think are also important. If we had adequate minerals, we probably wouldn't then hold on to as many of the heavy metals. Silica can be great for dealing with aluminum toxicity, which is the primary environmental toxicant.

And so looking at can we bring in some trace minerals to help facilitate detoxification as well. And then looking at movement being very important at least walking, the more stagnant we are, the harder it is then for the body to keep the fluid flow moving, particularly with the lymphatic system. And then there's a number of adjunct things that we can bring in coffee enemas, for me, very top of the list. I mean, I honestly that's probably one of my top five tools that really helped when I had so much pain that I couldn't move my head more than about an inch from side to side, that that really was, at that time, kind of a survival tool.

Colon hydrotherapy, ionic foot baths, castor oil packs, oil pulling, liver, gallbladder flushes. But I would I would caution people those should be medically supervised. Sometimes people are not ready for them and they can have some potential downsides. Sauna I like sauna, but I do feel like sauna is something that generally should be explored a little bit later after the adrenals are supported. I think people think, oh, I'm sweating things out, which is true,

A 11-Step Recovery Framework 14:06

but you're also mobilizing toxins inside the body. And so if we don't have all of those pathways opened up, the channels of elimination, if we don't have binders on board, you could lead to some redistribution of toxins that might actually make you feel worse. So I like sauna, but I don't think it's something that people should push through. If you feel poorly, then listen to the body and don't try to force yourself to do something. And I think that's generally true for anything that we're doing.

If the body is really pushing back, then maybe there's something that we're missing. Excellent. So let's move on to step two, which is improving our external environment. So Scott, why is this important so important. And how do we do it. Yeah. So this is the piece that I didn't understand when I got the Lyme diagnosis in 2005, Richie Shoemaker's book Mold Warriors had just come out, took me a couple more years to kind of figure this out, but our internal environment is probably only ever going to be as good as our external environment is.

So we're not going to be healthier than what surrounds us. And unfortunately, many people's indoor environments are very toxic. So we can take supplements all day long. We can do everything to try to get better. But if our home, our school, our workplace, sometimes even our car, if those are our Kryptonite, we may never again regain our superhero status. And so it's just so critical that we're thinking about the environment. The first is going to be mold. I will say we we generalize to say mold.

But mold really is probably better identified as water damaged building illness, meaning that there are bacteria and endotoxin and many other things that were exposed to parasites and microbial VOCs and so on. So I think we talk about mold because it's maybe the thing we can't historically test better for, but that really is just a surrogate way of looking at water damaged building illness. So there is not a perfect test for looking at the environment. I think the Army or Environmental Relative Maltiness index is a good starting place.

Michael. Metrics are in viral biome X. It's not perfect. You can then take those results and convert them to our hurts me to score, which is often very helpful. Immuno latex plates where you set out a plate and you then watch it grow for a number of days, and then you can send it in and have them tell you what grew on. It can be helpful. I don't think it's the only thing people should do, but that combined with an army can be quite helpful. And then looking at can we find some evidence of some mycotoxins in the body?

So I am a fan of the real time labs testing. That's also the one that Doctor Nathan would use the most. There is a lot of debate about it. There are people that say that comes from food. That is true. But when you're seeing really high levels, that is probably not from the food alone. So Great Plains has testing in this realm. Vibrant has testing in this realm. I think it's nice over time to see hopefully whatever your initial result is and you start supporting detox and drainage, you know, ideally you then see an increase in what's being excreted, but at some point that should start to come back down and become negative air filters.

I think those can be helpful, but I don't think they're solving the problem.

Detoxification and Drainage 17:28

I think a lot of times there's a hole in the bottom of the boat and then putting an air filter in is kind of like bailing the water out of the boat with a paper towel. It's not going to solve the boat from sinking. And then once we identify whatever the exposure is environmentally, then we either need to find a new environment or fix the environment or remediate the environment that we're in. I think that that's a conversation to have with an indoor environmental professional. Sometimes it's not solvable and you just need to move on.

But I do observe that many people move from one environment to another environment to another environment, and they always seem to find a mold problem. So sometimes I think you can remediate the environment that you're in. And oftentimes that can be quite great. So thinking then of what are some binders that we can use in this room. There are some that are a little more specific like the bio toxin binder from Cell Core is really nice. The Pro MCL product, which is not really a binder, but that's a beyond balanced product that can help facilitate the detoxification of mycotoxins.

Polystyrene, for some people, can be a good tool. It's not easy to tolerate. I've certainly had periods in my recovery where that was something that energetically was testing super well. And so, you know, bite the bullet and you and you do it. But I would say that's probably a tool that if you have an ongoing exposure, maybe is more appropriate versus if you're minimizing your exposures, then a lot of these natural tools really can be quite amazing. And that's really where I personally am going to be more drawn most of the time.

And then we'll talk a little bit later about potentially needing to think about colonization. If I was breeding in Aspergillus for ten years, is it possible that it's in my sinuses, in my gut, that I fix the environment? Maybe I'm even in a clean room now with absolutely no exposure. But what if I have a factory of these mycotoxins producing fungi in my system? Then that potentially needs to be addressed. So I think once we rule out the mold piece that we have really, or the water damaged building piece, we've really removed a very significant roadblock to our recovery.

I cannot stress enough. I know people don't want to test. They don't want to. It's it's a scary path to go down this whole mold illness piece. But it will save people years of time and lots of money to make sure that that's been addressed first. So that's the mold piece. The other piece is the electromagnetic field exposure. And this is something that Doctor Klinger first started sharing with me around 2006. Most people at that time were really laughing at him, thinking, oh my goodness, this crazy German doctor like, that's so ridiculous.

I don't think anyone's laughing anymore. I think now we're all becoming aware of how much all of these manmade fields are impacting our body. They can actually block detoxification. So that's a significant issue. So things like turning off our Wi-Fi, things like tossing our cordless phones. If anyone still has those, sleeping and silver lined cloth cloths can create a Faraday cage is something that I've done now for 16 years. I think it was very, very helpful sometimes turning off the circuit breakers at night so that you're not getting that exposure from the wiring in the walls that actually emanates out into the room several feet.

And so what can we do in this EMF realm, again, to try and create a healthier environment for our healing? Interestingly, Doctor Clean Heart has said for many years that mold growth in an environment not only the growth but also their defensive micro toxin producing response is much more when we have exposure to emfs. And so one of the first things he's going to say about, oh, I have mold in my home is turn off your Wi-Fi, because that's one of the aggravate ers of these molds, that then lead to more mycotoxins production.

And so in the clean heart world, there is no road back to health without reducing EMF exposure. There are lots of meters and things you can use. I think there's enough building biologists out in the world now that sometimes just getting someone to come out and test because you need four or 5 or 6 different meters to look at the different types of potential fields that need to be mitigated. There is also some correlation between EMF sensitivity and heavy metal toxicity. So working on the heavy metal piece as part of step one with detoxification and drainage, that can, over time reduce electromagnetic hypersensitivity syndrome.

So the detoxification piece already hopefully helping here as well. And then there are going to be some people that are more predisposed from a genetic perspective to being more reactive to emfs. There are also going to be people that are more reactive to emfs because they have limbic system impairment that we're going to talk about in just a little bit. Great. That was super, super, well stated. And how important it is again, to have the external with the internal alignment, because you're right, we're we're never going to be healthy until we get that external environment cleaned up.

And I had mold toxicity. And so I actually had to move. So I understand that personally. Yeah. So your next pillar, your next step rather is optimizing sleep. I know this is so important. This actually just came with everything that I was doing. I think I should have put this higher on the list. But my question to you is, why does this come after the external and environment around us? Yeah. So another teaching from Doctor Clean Heart. Is that a primary cause of insomnia? Is the EMF exposure of these frequencies that we're all bathed in.

So helping first to minimize that can set us up then to have healthier sleep. Lots of things that we can do in this realm. Melatonin, which I joke, is my drug of choice. I've always been a huge fan of melatonin. You know, Gaba five, HTP lemon balm, Valerian. There's there's a lot of things there. But I think sometimes we need to look into things like, what is your blood sugar doing while you're sleeping? Is it going down to the point that then your body's producing cortisol to bring it back up? But then once you're flooded with cortisol, you're not going to be able to sleep.

What is your oxygen saturation? Sometimes using things like weighted blankets can be helpful. I actually do incline bed therapy as well, which can help with drainage and the lymphatics by raising the head of the bed. 3 to 6in over the foot of the bed, things like brain tap. I actually, if I remember our conversation correctly, I think you were the one I was just exploring. Brain tap. There you go. I was exploring Brain Tap at that time, and had done a podcast with Doctor Patrick Porter and asked you at the end, what are some things you do on a daily basis in support of your own health?

And you pulled out your brain tab, and you said that you had been measuring your deep sleep on your aura ring and with the brain tap, it had like more than doubled, which to me is amazing. And that's one reason I love the aura ring, because we can see, well, what are some of these interventions we're doing and what's the pattern in terms of our sleep score? Our readiness can be amazing. There's the Apollo neuro band as well. That just creates kind of a vibratory pulse on the wrist that can also kind of help calm the system down.

And then we're going to talk about mast cell on histamine and just a little bit as well. But histamine also can play a role in sleep dysregulation. So we may need to look at some of the triggers for histamine. And really every bit of improvement we can make here in the sleep arena is going to exponentially increase our overall healing potential.

External Environment and Mold Exposure 25:18

That's why it's so early in this process. Yeah, I agree, it's very important to optimize it and to track it. Like you said, aura ring. I love to do interventions and objectively measure the outcome because I think some people do things. I took melatonin, I took Peter Gaba, but I, I think I slept better. So I am a fan of using tools to measure. So that was a great summary. Let's go to step four. So for being mental and emotional health, you know, and we've been told you and I that the problem was in our head, so is the problem at all in our head or can you expound on, on this very important step?

I would say that many of us have had some emotional trauma or conflict, you know, back in childhood, whatever that sets the stage for the develop ment of a chronic illness. Other people will be so invalidated by their medical journey, by the medical community that their physical illness leads to an experience that creates a trauma. So either way, I think it's something we have to explore to maximize our really our health outcome. And we all have emotional issues to work through. Accepting that reality doesn't mean that the illness is all in our head, but our mental and emotional health does play a role in the development of physical illness.

I don't think there's any question about that in the Lyme community. My observation over the years and I'm, you know, guilty as charged is a common pattern, is a type A plus over achiever, perfectionist that may not feel they deserve to be well, for whatever reason they're doing, doing, doing to prove their worth and value in the world. Rarely do I find a type B, you know, the guy coming in from the the surf on the surfboard, you know, on the beach and going, oh man, my life was ruined by Lyme disease.

I mean, you know, once in a while it actually happened one time and it kind of blew my story. But but, you know, it's it's it's not super common. And so in Doctor Clean Hearts five levels of healing, the mental emotional realm is the third level. The physical realm is the bottom or the widest part of the pyramid. And things that we can do on those higher levels have a downward effect. And so if we can shift something in the mental, emotional third level realm, that's probably going to do more than all of the supplements we could possibly take.

So things that can be helpful in this realm are going to be things like eMDR. Doctor, clean hearts applied psycho neurobiology, or psycho kinesiology systems like EFT or various tapping systems. Emotion code net is another one that many practitioners do. And I think for people that are open to this realm, usually at the beginning, people aren't as open to this realm, but eventually people seem to broaden their toolbox and their thought process. I'm a big fan of Amy Cher's book. It's called How to Heal Yourself When No One Else Can, very focused on how do we do specific things.

There's scripts, there's tapping, there's things in there that can really help to release a lot of that cellular memory or cellular imprint that emotions have on our bodies and our physical realities. And so that's a fantastic resource for people to explore this with. Great. Sounds great. So that brings us to the rule of step five. So retraining the limbic system and firing the vagus nerve and the parasympathetic. So incredibly important. Can you expound on that step. Yeah, it is really important.

This is another place where I think brain tap kind of shines. But this this is something that could come earlier or could come later. Generally speaking, I will say that limbic system retraining like with is or dynamic neural retraining system or the Gupta program. I tend to think of those as tools that are better to reboot, as Doctor Nathan might say, or recalibrate your perception of threat compared to actual threat. So at one time you're living in a moldy house. It is a tiger. It's not healthy for you.

But then you do what you did. You moved. You're in a better place. It's now like the kitten walking outside the street, outside the window. And yet your limbic system sees the kitten and reacts as if there's a tiger. So sometimes you need to use these limbic system tools early on to be able to tolerate some treatment. People that can't tolerate any supplements, they can't hold their down to five foods. One person I talked to was down to one food, and that one food was alligator. That's the only thing they could eat.

So a lot of times people will benefit by doing some of this work to increase the treatment options they have. But longer term, these are built on a framework of environmental awareness. No one is saying if you just do limbic system retraining, you can still live in your moldy house. And I think that's a common misconception that the community, the online community tends to have, there is some resistance to this work. So the limbic system is the hypothalamus, the amygdala, the hippocampus. In the Gupta program, it also considers, another structure called the insula.

So this is all the feeling and reacting brain. It's the alarm center, the anxiety switch. It impacts the function of the immune system, the hormone system or endocrine system, the autonomic nervous system, which then impacts our digestion and breath and heart rate and blood pressure. So the it's very upstream and many different things can trigger limbic system impairment. I do not like, though it does happen. I do not like to equate this limbic system work to mental emotional work. You can benefit if you had a mental emotional trauma that triggered your limbic system impairment.

You can benefit from doing some of these limbic system things. But mold, chemicals, pesticides, pathogens so many things can be triggers for limbic system impairment.

Optimizing Sleep 31:28

So I think of it as more of a biochemical physical reality than a mental emotional type thing. Then you get into using a tool like Annie Hopper's DNS or Ashok Gupta's the Gupta program, can be tremendously, tremendously helpful in this whole recovery. And then one of the things that that also can pair very nicely with the limbic system work is work with the vagus nerve. So how do you tone the vagus nerve that could be with things like the exercises from Stanley Rosenberg's book, Accessing the Healing Power of the Vagus Nerve?

That could be with other tools like frequency specific microcurrent. I mean, there's lots of ways we can work with the vagus nerve, but we need to work on the limbic system and the vagus nerve simultaneously to support the parasympathetic response that is needed for rest, digest, detoxify, and heal. Heart math is another tool that can be helpful in this realm, but we're not going to heal if we're in that fight, flight, or freeze response. We have to calm the system as much as possible to move into a healing state.

Great, great. And that brings us to step six. Kind of building on all of this is that, you know, when we are in chronic illness, we have a lot of inflammation. Then immune response could be the problem. You know, one of the problems is that the immune response, maybe it was appropriate, maybe it was not appropriate, for what was going on. But that can impact in cleaning that up, addressing the mast cells. I think this again is a super important step. And at step six, in your approach, can you tell us why this step is so important?

Yeah. So I think getting well is an is not going to be about killing bugs when I first started my journey. Kill kill kill, then do some detox. Then you know those pesky emotions. Now I think it's exactly the opposite. We need to work on the mental emotional health. We need to detox and then the bugs really are kind of later in this whole process. And so I think that there are so many factors in the world that are leading to immune dysregulation, mold exposure, you know, lots of people after getting the pandemic virus or having immune dysregulation toxins, immune dysregulation.

So a lot of times it's not so much that the immune system is weak. It's that the immune system is dysregulated, hyper vigilant, hyper active, overreacting creating more inflammation. And so if we look at that immune, the mast cells that can create inflammatory mediators like histamine and many others, they can be triggered by parasites, by Lyme disease, by environmental toxins, by foods and supplements, even temperature changes. For some people, any type of trauma. Interestingly, I think we ultimately will come to the conclusion that a major trigger of mast cell activation is emfs.

And Doctor Theo Haritos said at a conference that I was at, a few years ago, that mast cells are ten times more active in the presence of a cell phone. And for me, even having already heard a lot of this stuff, it was like, whoa, wait a minute, ten times more active just because of your cell phone. What about all the other things? What about all these 5G towers that are going up on every corner? I mean, it really is concerning, but I would say, mold parasites, emfs probably some of the bigger triggers of mast cell activation.

Ideally, we start working in this realm by minimizing, again, incoming sources, low histamine diet. What are we consuming? Like avocados or bone broth or fermented foods or kombucha? Like all these things we think are great. They're not great for people that have mast cell activation. And then once we minimize as many of those things with dietary intake, then looking at what can we do to stabilize the mast cells to reduce histamine, things like quercetin, luteal and holy basil. Neuro is a product that Doctor Thio created.

That's amazing. Doctor Ben Lynch has his probiotic histamine, exo probiotics or triggers

Mental and Emotional Healing 35:48

of mast cells and histamine as well, if it's the wrong kind of probiotics. Doctor Chris Schade created a liposomal formula from Quicksilver called Hester Aid that I really like as well. Pharmaceutical interventions like Compounded Catarrh, Tiffen or CRO Milan. Those can be great. And then a lot of times when you just start addressing the mast cell activation piece through diet and some of these things that we just talked about, people symptomatically feel a lot better. Their symptoms resolve or reduce that inflammation is much better.

And at the same time then we want to work on those triggers. So the mast cell activation piece is kind of what's creating a lot of the symptoms. And we want to work on that so that the person doesn't have as many symptoms. But it's not going to resolve unless we fix the triggers. And so the mold all of those pieces I additional inflammatory support I think some of the pro resolving mediators like SPM active or microbiome labs got specific fish oil. No, I was not on the marketing team. That name, that product.

I think those can be helpful for resolving inflammation as well. And then what can we do for immune modulation? Low dose. Now truck sound I think right now lots of people benefit from low dose naltrexone, low dose immunotherapy, Tai Vincent's work, homeopathy. There's a product from Beyond Balance I like called I am and calm. And then Doctor Samuel Janik with Gensim you nology. He's a fantastic teacher in this realm. It's very complicated, but he's incredible. And he's worked with pure encapsulation to create a line of products one support, two modulator, balanced immune and immune support, history said.

I mean, lots of lots of tools that are emerging here. I'm also excited about and still kind of in the exploration stage. But there is now finally a test called the direct lymphocyte map that gives us some insight into want to t rag all of that. That could then give us some clues as to which way the immune system is tilted, so to speak. And how can we bring it back into balance. And so I think it's important to remember that getting well is not about boosting the immune system. That can actually make things worse, particularly for people with autoimmunity.

But it's more about modulation, calming integration with our microbiome. And I do think that this is an area where peptides can really shine the immune modulation piece. And I know sometimes it's a little tricky to get access to some of these. I definitely don't recommend people get them online. And you know from sources that they don't don't really know, but things like thymus and Alpha one, thymus and beta for tiny Elm, a lot of the peptides I think really shine in step six where we're looking at the immune modulation piece.

And I think this is really foundational to do before we get into the killing piece a little later. Very good. So that leads us to step seven, which is about optimizing hydration, nutrition, the microbiome and gut health. You kind of alluded to that in step six about, you know, are you a histamine sensitive. Is that an issue. Your mast cells do granular things. Should you go on a low histamine. But this brings in deeper dive. Can you elaborate on that. Yeah. So in this realm of bio toxin illness I think many people are drinking

Limbic System and Vagus Nerve Retraining 39:18

water all day. They're peeing it out. They have low antidiuretic hormone. They're still cellular dehydrated. So I think about things like structuring water, adding some electrolytes, adding some trace minerals, maybe a pinch of sea salt. There's devices out there that can structure water. And there's many different ways of doing that. There's a homeopathic from energetics called rehydration that I really like as well. There are some waters that are quite good that you can purchase, but they're expensive.

Shipping costs almost as much as buying the water. And so I don't know that that's always a great way to do it. I'm personally just starting into more water distillation, which I used to actually be against. But learning from Doctor Todd Watts, distilling water to get out all of the bad stuff and then in some cases adding some of the minerals back in. So hydration really important remembering then that the immune system largely comes from the gut. So if we have foods that we're eating that are triggering the gut, we really want to get rid of those triggering foods.

I do think gluten just needs to go away. For anyone in this conversation of chronic illness, I think cow dairy is going to be bad for most people. At a minimum, a two cow dairy might be better. Sheep or goat is probably going to be better. You know, getting rid of as much of that as you can is probably going to be best. Sugar is going to be bad. High histamine foods we talked about also bad lots of different diets out there in my experience. Probably in the more chronic illness recovery. I think the low histamine diet is the one that I've seen produce the best results.

It's not a forever thing, so you might later move on to a autoimmune paleo or a paleo or a keto or, you know, something else. But I do think low histamine can be really great. And then whatever you are consuming, how do we make it as nutrient dense as possible? My favorite meal of the day is my morning power shake, which unfortunately, depending on the amount of psyllium I put into it, sometimes it becomes power pudding. It's a little bit a little bit thick at times, but some type of high quality protein, a good fiber blend, some phospholipids, the phosphate title choline with the phosphate title serine, inositol, ethanol.

I mean, all of those things good healthy fats, maybe some chia seeds or flax seeds, organic nut milk. It's an incredible way to start the day. And for my own, I really had, in my earlier recovery, more of like a sarcopenia where I would look at my calf muscles and they used to be huge and they were just gone. And I was like, what the heck? And so this kind of focus on nutrition really helped tremendously. I think thinking a little bit more about how do we support the microbiome, is important. Make us for biotic is something I love.

It's great even for most people. Dealing with mast cell activation or even Sibo provides those keystone strains to optimize microbial diversity of the microbiome, but also can help with modulating inflammation, modulating the immune system as well helping with intestinal hyper permeability. We can also think about some of the peptides here, like BPC 157 can be great for helping with the gut. Doctor Zach Bush's eye on gut health used to be called restore can be fantastic as well. So just making sure that we're getting a lot of these, water and food and gut and microbiome things dialed in, let's just do a few little things for each of them to support and optimize our outcomes.

One quick question for you guys. Are you a fan of butyrate? I take it every day. Okay, I not only do I take it every day. Orally, but I also, over the past couple of years have gone through the whole, Patricia Kane protocol, which uses I.V. sodium phenol butyrate as well. So yes, I do. I do use a lot of butyrate. And interestingly, if you look at like with the new biome effects that, microbiome Labs, it works with as well, a lot of times you'll see that your microbiome doesn't have the diversity needed to produce butyrate.

And so, yeah, I absolutely I mean, I'm guessing by your smile that it's a big one for you as well. Yes. I have just seen so many studies on butyrate and all the magical things that it can do that even though it stinks like terribly. And it comes out with a warning on the package. This is supposed to stink. I mean, pretty much, but. So don't be afraid. Like some of the I've, I've kind of switched to more of the tri Buterin type tribute or an axis one. Designs for health has another one that are more like soft gels, and they don't have that smell at all.

And I think those seem to work quite well. So I've kind of shifted away from the smelly ones that they put the, you know, cherry capsule inside just so you can tolerate opening the lid. But I do think that they're, they're all very, very helpful from an inflammation perspective and a gut health perspective. Great, great, great tip. I will definitely order those. So that brings us to step eight. And that is about adding supportive and, interventions to your beyond gut. So talk about mitochondrial support, adrenal support, coagulation as you mentioned kind of go into those for us.

Yeah. So I think adrenal support is sometimes important. I mean, the stress of who, who doesn't in our world today have ridiculous amounts of stress. I just recently added some ashwagandha and felt like I needed a little support. So I do like the adaptogens. I do think some people certainly do well with low dose hydrocortisone as well, so the adrenals are still part of the conversation. But I think the mitochondria has really become maybe even a bigger part of the conversation. What can we do to support energy production to support ATP, the energy currency of the body, but also really the energy currency of healing?

How can you heal when you don't have enough ATP to do what the body needs to do? So more recently in this realm, I mean, there's lots of cool things. I love red light therapy, lots of tools in that realm that I think can be really great. Also, they can be helpful for collagen support, which sadly, Borelli, really affects. And so do a lot of other organisms. So red light therapy is great. There's lots of things like CoQ10 and PKU and, methylene blue can be interesting as well in this conversation.

Immune Modulation and Mast Cell Support 45:48

But more recently I've gotten super thanks to Doctor Neil Nathan, who urged me to read the book Thiamin Deficiency Disease or Disorder by Doctor Derek Lansdale and Doctor Chandler Mars, who I interviewed Doctor Mars. And so it's using the right type of D1 to help the body produce energy. And so very excited about the thiamin conversation relative to the mitochondria. The Cryptopia Luria piece here in step eight. That's something that Doctor Klinghoffer introduced to me about 15 years ago. And essentially it's the idea that we're peeing out our zinc B6 and other cofactors that are needed to support the immune system.

And you get then to a place where your white blood cells, as he would say, are like an army with no bullets. So supporting those deficiencies can be very important as well. That is something that, for me, I continue to do. It's probably a lifelong supportive thing, maybe just more genetically that that's an issue. And then when we're looking at hyper coagulation, this was a huge issue for me. We're hearing a lot more about it now in the Covid arena. I do continue to take some natto kinase, some beluga or lembra kinase every day because I've always tended to, at least as long as I've looked at it, tend towards hyper coagulation.

Very well-supported. Now, my tests are all normal, but you have to look for, you know, is the BCA flaring? Are heavy metals an issue? Are you getting exposed to more. Those things can create thickened blood or hyper viscous blood. And if you have hyper coagulation, you're not going to get delivery of nutrients and other therapeutic interventions in an efficient manner to parts of the body. And you're not going to optimize oxygen delivery, and you're not going to optimize waste removal. So hyper coagulation, I honestly think in this realm of chronic illness, slime mold, all of these things, anyone needs to be looking at hyper coagulation to make sure that that's not something that's being missed.

I think very commonly it is something that's being missed. Do you think that's why people experience benefits and it's more of a bandaid effect? It's not it's not treating the root cause with the Beamer, with the Beamer technology. Yeah. And you know, EMF in general I think is supporting micro circulation. It is helping with oxygen delivery, waste removal, all of those things. So I think PMS could be one excellent way to help deal with some of the hyper coagulation while you're addressing the mold and the babka and the heavy metals and all of these other things.

And there's probably still a role for, you know, some low dose blue cornado kinase or, you know, something in that realm to support thinner blood. But but yes, I think PMF can be a tremendously helpful tool in that hyper coagulation conversation. Okay. Super. And a step nine. That's a step that, you know, that I thought that was step number one. If you had to ask me 15 years ago. Right. I was going to kill all the bugs. Kill, kill, kill while I was killing myself. Pretty much. And so, when I respected the fact that I needed to clean up my my terrain first, and I put the bugs aside again, supported all your your steps above.

That's when I was moving the needle with feeling better. But we're at that step. We're at we're we're we can talk about those pesky critters. So how do we support the body and the microbial overgrowth. Yeah. So I mean, I like that you use the word overgrowth. I think the reality is we're not ever going to eradicate Borrelia or Bartonella or BBC. They are going to be with us until we are no longer on this planet. And for some people, that's like a really discouraging concept. Like, what do you mean? I have these things forever.

Well, lots of people have, and they're not sick. So I actually think it's more empowering because it's not a reality that we can even achieve that. And so it's really about managing, reducing the burden. The boulders that are on the body, so to speak, so the body can then, you know, right itself and come back to balance or homeostasis. So I think the, the killing piece is not the focus. The immune modulation piece is probably much more important relative to the bugs than, you know, kill, kill, kill.

But once we start supporting the body against these different pathogens, I think it's also important to to know that the order is going to shift. It's going to be different for everyone. Generally, I tend to think of the viral retroviral pieces. I do have the opinion that Epstein-Barr virus, herpes zoster, herpes simplex, one, that these viruses play a significant role in chronic illnesses. I know a lot of times people test for them and they say, oh look, it's just IgG. That means I had it in the past and I don't need to worry about it.

I don't think that's really true. And that's where I think that Ali Spot or T-cell based testing is starting to, show us a little bit more that that there is still often an active engagement of the immune system with these things. And usually treating the viruses doesn't lead to a huge Horkheimer type of reaction. So I usually like to start with viral retroviral supports. Then looking at the gut, the parasites, the Sibo, those other dysbiosis series, then thinking about the fungal, yeast mold colonization, then later the Lyme and co-infections, and then finally, if necessary, some of the biofilm tools.

I don't think everyone needs to address biofilm. Not all biofilms bad, but some people certainly can benefit from support there. So that reactivation of Epstein-Barr human herpes virus six, herpes zoster, some of the endogenous retroviruses that can be made worse by EMF exposure. I mean, we need some of these retroviruses. They're important in many ways to our, our our bodies. I think they make up something like 8% of our DNA. Don't quote me on that. But I they're, they're they're not insignificant.

But once they reactivate, then we need some longer term support to kind of calm them down. Again. Lots of good tools, doctor. Clean heart has, you know, with his, work consulting with bio pure. They have tools like envy and vital nine sisters. T I like some of the Beyond Balance tools. Cell core has some, the Virat chem product. I like, but then things like sulforaphane or pan to thin, or selenium or even lysine. Homeopathic can play a role here as well. Viru cord from energetics, for example. Then we're thinking about parasites, Sibo, gut issues.

I think the parasites are so incredibly common. Testing is terrible. Very few times where you find parasite positive test in in most, you know, stool or urine type sampling. Doctor Rafael D'Angelo from para wellness Research is probably my favorite in this realm. But then doing that and also some of the energetic work, whether it's doctor clean arts, autonomic response testing or using the Zito or the quest for or the ASI root or Doctor Simon use acupuncture, meridian assessment, things like that can be really helpful.

Thinking about what tools then can we bring in? And we're not talking about just worms, but also protozoans, Giardia, cryptosporidium, Toxoplasma, those types of things. So I like the Para Jen product from Doctor David Jernigan work homeopathic like under 39 or energetics paracord cell core has a lot of tools in this realm, and there is a place for some of the pharmaceutical antiparasitic.

Hydration, Nutrition, and Gut Health 53:48

So I would say in the pharmaceutical realm, having myself done pharmaceutical antibiotics for over three years, when I first got diagnosed with Lyme, because we didn't have any of what we're talking about. This was 17 years ago. But I do like, you know, the Alinea and some of the other ones that we don't talk about anymore. Because they're also used in some of the, the current virus situation. With Sibo, I think it's more about upstream factors like the vagus nerve, the migrating motor complex, bile flow.

So I'm I'm guessing you see phase 2.5 detoxes critical in resolving Sibo. In fact, I don't even need to guess because I know that's the case. And so thinking about what can we do to support those issues, and dysbiosis like claustrophobia and klebsiella and all of those. So bio seitan from bio botanical research is great. Mega spore is great here as well. Moving then into and maybe I should say because I don't think I've finished that thought, but with Sibo, I think of the overgrowth as the effect and not the cause. Right.

I think if we're addressing Sibo from a perspective of kill, kill, kill, we're going to have Sibo every time we stop killing, right? We need to work on those headwaters. As Doctor Courson would say. Are those upstream factors as well? Absolutely. Then we get into the fungus, the yeast, the molds. Many people are familiar with Candida or Candida, but could we have colonization from Aspergillus? Yes. I mean I think that is possible. It is debated. So it's not not a black and white conversation. But I like things like the microbiome labs make a micro balance.

It's great. Can do back to an R and B are from meta Gen-X or nice. You know, beyond balance Byron white formulas. They all have great tools in this realm. Some practitioners will use it all as well for dealing with fungal colonization. Then we get in towards Lyme and co-infections. So what can we do to support Borelli? Bartonella, but BCI and even the opportunists like Mycoplasma and chlamydia, lots and lots of tools at this point that we can use. And I think it's a good strategy to be fairly targeted initially.

So not to take something that's going to kill or manage Borrelia, Bartonella, but all at the same time. But if we're using tools like the Byron White formulas or the new traumatic formulas or the Beyond Balanced formulas, they have combinations that are a little more specific for the BCA or Bartonella, so that we're un layering things in a way that's a little more tolerable for the person that's going through that experience. And then once you've done layered things, then we can use broader spectrum tools without having such a negative response.

In the biofilm conversation, there are lots of enzymes, and other things we can use their systems. T has been one of the big ones that Doctor Klinger Hart has talked about and I think can be very helpful. One of the things to remember when you're dealing with biofilms is whatever is left microbes, toxins, all of these things that are in that biofilm that's being broken, those are also now getting released into the immune system. So we're going to trigger mast cell activation. We need to have support on board for whatever is coming out of those biofilms.

Right. So it's not that we've stopped the antimicrobials and then moved into the biofilms. But I think of that as a later strategy once people have dealt with the majority of their microbial burden. There certainly are some things in the pharmaceutical realm that are interesting. I, I'm open to any reasonable tool in the toolbox. I did antibiotics years ago because that was really the only tool would I do it again? I don't think so, but I do think that they can be very helpful. Many people benefit from disulfiram, for example, in the last maybe three years in the Lyme community.

So I'm happy that the toolbox is broad in my toolbox, kind of the primary tools in kind of the Lyme and co-infection realm are going to be those things from the bio cures, the vital plans, the Supreme Nutrition Beyond Balance des bio. We talked about, mapr herbals, research, nutritionals new traumatic. I mean, thank goodness the toolbox is really large compared to when I started down this path many years ago. I am excited that, Doctor David Jernigan is working on his induced native phage therapy, which is supposed to be available in the next few months to practitioners as well for helping to deal with some of these microbes as well.

And then I would say, what can we do that's more of an adjunct type intervention. Sometimes people can't always take things orally to deal with some of the microbes. Maybe they're dealing with Sibo, they've got limbic system issues, they're reactive to everything. So can we bring in some frequency type tools? I like the, and still use about five days a week, the free medica wave one device, which is a light device that piggybacks frequencies that can help support those people dealing with Lyme. So, you know, sometimes coming at it from different perspectives.

But that that's kind of my overview of how to manage rather than kill the microbes that are contributors to our chronic illnesses.

Adrenal, Mitochondrial, and Coagulation Support 59:18

Excellent overview. And I think it really drives home the point of why we want to get all the other steps in line, why it's important to not go for the bugs first. With everything that Scott was saying about how you know you're going to be killing off different things or their detoxification pathways need to be open. So I really appreciate that it is. Step nine. I think step ten is very interesting because I think that we forget that the mouth is part of the body a lot of the times, a lot of the times, you know, the things that are going on in our mouth, we think, oh, it's just my mouth.

You know, like neglecting how how crucial it is to have good dental health, especially when we're trying to recover. Scott. Well, you go into that for us. Yeah. So some of my mentors like Doctor Clean Heart and Doctor Simon, you they generally think of this in some people as a fairly early intervention. But even in their more recent models, Doctor Klinger would suggest addressing some of the retroviruses first. Doctor, you likes to address the parasites first. Before you get into some of these more significant dental issues.

We could be talking about something here, like amalgams or root canals. Those certainly can affect the body. The root canals affecting the meridians and thus the organ systems. But probably the bigger conversation here is going to be more of the cavitation. So areas in the jaw usually where you had prior teeth extracted. So the wisdom teeth sites are fairly common areas for cavitation and you develop an infection in the jaw bone. So Bartonella but some of those co-infections can certainly make these things a little more likely.

But they're also fairly common in the general population that doesn't identify with the chronic illness. So what has to be done with these? Cavitation is generally reopening the site, scraping out the softer jaw bone. Oftentimes now putting in something like PRP or PRF to facilitate the healing process and minimize the chance of a recurrence. And then, you know, that's getting a fairly significant burden off the body. These infections, these cavitation, they produce more captains and teo ethers that are toxins that are very, very carcinogenic.

So I years ago was reading a book by Perry Fields, who was an Olympian, and read her chapter on her cavitation. And, I think I was reading it while I was doing a coffee enemas. Just so you know, I really do do these things. And I remember thinking, thank goodness I didn't have to do that. And then I went to see Simon. You. I was at one of his conferences and said, hey, I'm here. I might as well do an evaluation. And sure enough, he identified two competitions. And so, I think we want to prepare the body before we do something significant so that we're going to tolerate the procedure, heal well, and have longer term positive results.

The other thing in this whole conversation to think about, particularly in kids, is what about the impact of the tonsils? If the child is dealing with pandas, for example, with a strep associated infection, then the tonsils may need to be either treated or in some cases even removed. To your point, even if we're not doing something here significant, we want to think about what are we doing every day to minimize pathogens in the mouth that contribute to systemic pathogen burden? We know now that, we find things like strep anemia, dental call and pe gingival from the oral cavity in the brains of people with Alzheimer's disease.

So, you know, some of the things that I think about doing would be essential oils like Supreme Nutrition has one bio botanical research has their dental side in a couple of different formats of that. That can be nice. Oil pooling I like that some companies like Research Nutritionals, are starting to introduce tools that are focused on the oral microbiome. So rather than kill, kill, kill, what are the right pathogens or the right microbes? They're really not pathogens. The right microbes to put back into the mouth like a probiotic.

And so, you know, my thought with this whole thing is there are things we want to do first. This could come earlier in the process, but I would also urge people to have a good conversation between their doctor and their dentist or surgeon to make sure that the captain of their ship that's guiding their care feels like it's the right time,

Managing Microbial Overgrowth 1:03:48

that there's the right support that they're thinking about. Well, what if some of the systemic infections become a little more active because of the stress of a surgery on the body? I think sometimes more people get into challenges here, is when they jump into doing that work with their dentist, biological dentist, importantly, or their surgeon, without making sure that the person who's treating their Lyme or their co-infections or their mole donors is part of that conversation. All right, I totally agree. Great overview.

And brings us to step 11, the final step. And you mentioned regeneration and restoration. Can you tell us more about that? Yeah. So I think by the time you go through Lyme and co-infections and modalities, it has taken a toll on the body. So what can we then do to support regeneration? Restoration. We're talking here some about thyroid. So hormone replacement could be very helpful in this realm. Whether that's thyroid or bioidentical hormones. I think these in in many cases could come earlier however, and this is really the premise of your new book, The Thyroid Debacle.

If we're thinking about thyroid conditions as a type of cell danger or response, if the body is shifting into a hypo metabolic state as a protective mechanism and putting on the brakes, we don't always want to put on the gas pedal at the same time. So sometimes we want to address a lot of these triggers of that protective response before we start thinking about introducing some of these things. But there certainly is a place for hormones. I think that many people do super well with progesterone, particularly for sleep and just feeling better in general.

So hormone therapy could play a role here phospholipids, phosphate, tidal choline and others. They really repair the cells and create healthier cell membranes. So it could be that power shake type thing that I talked about earlier. Or it could be the I.V. Patricia Kane type protocol where you're really getting a lot of these healthy lipids. That's what I did over the past couple of years and think that that was helpful. Peptides absolutely shine in this regeneration and restoration realm. They're becoming a little more difficult to get.

But there are still, ways to get peptides that are still, not a problem. So, BPC 157, for example, is one common one that we talked about a little bit earlier, photo bio modulation, the red light therapy. I think a lot of times we need more collagen support. So supporting the collagen by using red light and frequencies, getting more of that photon support, that vital force can be very helpful. I'm interested in the stem cell and exosome conversation, but I have to say at this point I've been largely disappointed.

I also years ago, more than a decade ago, you know, at that time, everybody was saying, oh, the way to get past Lyme disease is go to stem cells in, you know, some other country. It wasn't helpful. I wouldn't recommend people do that. I think some of these things can be helpful for, you know, a knee or a hip or something like that. But if you're dealing with a systemic burden of lots of things and all these steps that we talked about, there is no get out of jail free card, we have to go through the process.

So I'm glad to see there are still things that are evolving in this realm, but haven't yet personally gotten super excited about it. I like the exercise with oxygen therapy, so live O2 is one system. That is what I do every single morning. I would guess that I probably missed less than ten days of doing that in the last year, because I just absolutely love it. So lots of tools we can use in this restoration and regeneration realm. But I think by the time someone has had an illness for years, sadly, oftentimes decades, that there is going to be some place for tools in this realm to to really kind of support the body once we've addressed a lot of the other pieces.

Absolutely. Scott, you've given us so many wonderful things to think about and to ponder and to research. I'm definitely going to be looking up a few of the things that you mentioned. Some of these are new to even me, so I always learn something, and I am a faithful listener of your podcast, everyone. Oh, just listen to it. It's amazing. I also voted for it because I know that, you are one of the top podcasting. So do you have any final words for us? Yeah. You know, first, I'm just so thankful that you invited me to share this information with your audience.

I think for practitioners that are listening, I am the co-founder of the forum for Integrative Medicine. We put on an annual event that's focused on practitioners and collaborate and talking about practical solutions. So if people are interested in learning about that,

Dental Health and Cavitations 1:08:48

the website is forum for Integrative medicine.org. I'm also a board member of the Limelight Foundation, and we provide treatment grants to children and young adults 25 and under for treating Lyme disease where they otherwise may not be able to access care. So I think at this point we have helped people in 49 states, about $7 million at this point. And so if someone's listening and they're dealing with Lyme disease and they need support, feel free to reach out. If you're listening and you'd like to support the work we're doing, feel free to reach out at Limelight foundation.org.

And I think the last thing that I would say is don't lose hope. There are more reasons now than ever to be hopeful. There were so many years where I just felt like nothing was changing. There were no new tools, there was no new understanding. And I think that's changed a lot. There's there's a lot more research, there's new things emerging, some of these tools where they can, you know, screen hundreds or thousands of medications against specific organisms. I mean, the technologies are really advancing.

So I think with that new tools, new solutions, that it's important just to really be hopeful people do get better. It is a challenging and difficult journey at times. But but many, many people do get through it. And I just think it's important to hold on to that. That's great. That message of hope is, is so, so important. And I second that you can get better. You know, again, the technology when when Scott

Regeneration, Restoration, and Closing Remarks 1:10:18

and I back when we got sick it has advanced so much. But Scott, it was just such an honor to have you. I say that with all sincerity. I'm probably your number one fan. I know I'm one of your number one fans on your Facebook group, because I got that little diamond that says I have a super fan, so you're probably going to have to talk to my mom. She might disagree. Oh, But I've enjoyed our conversation. Thank you so much for your time. I appreciate Doctor Kelly. Thank you.