Avoid Incomplete Mold Inspection Loss

Introduction and guest background 0:00

Hi, and welcome back to this episode of the Reversing Marcel Activation and Histamine Intolerance Summit. I'm your host, Beth O'Hara of Mast Cell 360, and I'm really excited that we have with us today, one of my colleagues and someone that we've refer to quite a bit from our own practice at Mast Cell 360. This is Jeff Book out of bio balance. He's the president of bio balance. And also er, well, of Oklahoma and Colorado and he's a certified mold. Spector. We have worked with Jeff a good bit over the last few years, and he's been just a wealth of information for our clients and for me personally to learn more about environmental mold.

And we're going to dig into all kinds of top tips and information that you really need to know to be able to keep your home healthy and safe. So thank you, Jeff, so much for joining us. We really appreciate you being here, Beth. I'm more than happy to be here. So we're going to dive into Jeff actually has a presentation because there's a lot of information. It'll be helpful to have the visuals. So Jeff why don't we get your slides up here and we'll jump in. All right Jeff, you want to kick us off here?

You bet. So once we get started, at least from the the medical side is once we figure out that someone's getting exposed to mold, has mold issues, mold illness, Marseille. Whatever the case may be, the next step is the mold inspection phase. Let's get into that property and figure out what exactly is going on. Because the medical detox program has to go hand in hand with the treatment, inside of the property, because if they don't find and treat what's inside of the property, then the mold problems are just going to come back and they're going to continue to be sick.

Can we care for that? That's underscore that because I was so important, Jeff, that if people have mass activation syndrome and they're continually exposed to mold, they're not going to get fully well because that mold is going to keep triggering them, keep adding to the toxin load in their body. You're exactly right. And here's one thing I always tell people when they call me, there's a couple things that need to be done. Either one, we need to find these elephants that are inside that property that's making you sick, or we need to get away from the elephants that are making you sick.

Right? So it's either either finding fix or we need to flee. One of the two. Because if not, that body cannot heal. Now, can we just address right up front? Because so many people, when I start talking about environmental mold, are terrified that they're going to have to move, they're going to have to throw out all their possessions. And one of the things I really appreciate about you is you really work first to find ways that people can stay in their homes. And it's so hard when you're really chronically sick to think about trying to find another place.

And this is a terrible housing market to try to find another place. Can you just address that worry up front here? Yeah, of course, because I

Why mold inspection must follow medical treatment 3:10

think that's one of the biggest, issues that I look at too. So every situation is going to be unique and going to be different sometimes. You know, I do this every day, all day for a living. And I see some of the sickest people on the planet. It is rare that somebody actually has to move. It does happen. And I am super nice. I'm super empathetic, but you need to hear the truth. So I can sit there and watch you cry until you need to leave. If that is the case. But most cases, that doesn't happen.

Most of the time there is. Okay. A lot of different options. Tackle the biggest elephants that we can. First. That's affordable. Here's some other options that we can do to clean the air. Until these problems can be fixed. Because, Jeff, I just don't have the money. Okay, so let's just take off a chunk at a time and let's figure out your unique situation. That way we can show you the different options that you have, because it's it's rare in a case that people can just up and go. Which, you know, in a perfect world, okay, you have mold inside of your property. Let's just get out.

That is a whole lot easier said than done. And it can't happen in most of the people that I deal with. So it's all about showing them and walking them through the plan of what is going to work best for their unique situation that they have going on in the house. But it shouldn't overwhelm them because there is different options. And once they figure out and hear those different options and see where that problem actually is, what's going on. So since we know what's going on, then we can help them walk through that journey.

And what somebody has, somebody can hold their hand a little bit to walk through that journey back. It makes that experience so much easier and it's bearable now. Whereas before, fight or flight, I'm scared to death. Don't know what's going on. So, hey, let's figure out what's going on together and let's walk you through this process. And I just want to share, just like, experience working with you, which is you may have remember that I had some old plates come in and the house that we had finally found after six months of house shopping, I was the only one I could find that was mold free.

We snagged it up, we moved in, and then it started to get humid and we had record rains and I started feeling ill and I was getting more inflamed and feeling worse. So we ran mold plates and our basement mold plates came back with these extremely high levels, like in the 20s of Aspergillus. And do you remember me calling you in a panic? You said, I saw your plate come through. I knew you knew you were going to call me today. And what what what I love, Jeff was one. You reassured me and you said, this is this is clean.

You can clean this up. This is very doable. You've helped calm me down. I mean, that that in itself meant the world to me. And what what I wish I could have. I wish I'd asked you at the beginning, but I want to ask you now. So many mold inspectors, Jeff, don't understand the types of health issues that I've dealt with from mold that most of people, Marcella activation deal with, from mold.

Jeff's personal story and medical perspective 6:32

They don't understand the level of mold that can make us sick. That doesn't make, for example, my six to long Becker size has been sick but can make me really ill. How did you get into the medical side of mold inspection and remediation and understanding this from a chronic illness perspective? Yeah, so do you. This is is a passion for me because unfortunately I had to go through it. And when I say I had to go through it, those of you, you have kids. The pain of a child is worse than pain for yourself.

And I think a lot of parents can empathize to that. So with my youngest daughter getting sick, not me. When it comes to mold on the genetic stud, I don't have hla fa I eat it, I swim in it. I live in the mold world all day long. I do not get sick from it. But my youngest daughter was in back then. And this is 18 years ago. No one knew the information that we know today. So here I have this daughter. We would go and sleep in the basement. And the second day we're in that basement. She would have 104 degree fever by 2 a.m.

a strep throat. What's wrong with you? Great question. 3 to 5 year old range. So she's younger. I know a little bit. And and I'm looking at her going, what is wrong with you? I slept in the same place you did. I ate the same things that you wait. I grew up in this house. What is wrong with you? And I was convinced that it was either big red gum or Sunny Delight. That's the only thing that's different in this house. And in my house. That's got to be it. The next time we go sleep in the basement. Sure enough, on Ford, a great favor to him.

Strep throat. Should we get strep throat 16 to 20 times a year? Took out her tonsils. Strep would attack the side of her face. I luckily, I have an infrared camera, so I'm looking at an infrared camera. On the side of her face is 111 degrees. It looked like I hit her as hard as I could on the side of her face. It's just purple and red and you know what is going on. And and luckily, I had a lot of, people happened to follow or fallen to my lap. One was, a guy who, got sick from mold exposure. He traveled the country helping people.

Nobody could get him better. He went back to work, developed all these own formulas to get himself better. And luckily, I had access to him. And he helped me through this journey, because back then, she has, like, no, liver's not producing little volume to remove toxins out of the body. So back then, nobody knew about HLA for, APL, you know, all we knew was IgG and IgG sensitivities. So that was when I. And at the same time, I was switching jobs and it and it happened to be into the mold field and is amazing how everything just kind of worked together to allow me to, to get my daughter better extremely quickly.

So since then, obviously, you know, I, I live this world, so I'm right in the middle of it. Kinsey now is in college, and I had to go work at her apartment not too long ago. That I'm not feeling good in my apartment. I think if there's a mold problem, can you come up and take a look? Sure enough, baby, so this kind of allowed me to really start looking at the medical side of this. And really from day one, that's kind of where I spent my focus. You know, I got trained just like everybody else was trained, to be a mold inspector.

And I'm older mediator. But every every one is looking for the big black, hairy stuff on the wall, right? I want to see it. And sometimes it's that easy. And. But if it was that easy, you don't need people like me. You know where the problem is. But I always hear, Jeff, you know, I, I have a clean house. I don't have a mold problem, but you don't see what's behind your massive shower. You don't see what's going on behind the scenes. Yes. Your house is spotless, but here's this hidden mold that is making you sick.

And it can make all of us sick. And what kind of dive into that a little bit, too. But I got into the from the medical side because my daughter's getting sick and nobody knew what world was going on. So she got hit a few times. So it wasn't just the one time, but there were, yeah, three times multiple in. Well, we've been getting some photos of my own house because, you know, everybody has water intrusion problems and if water intrusion isn't dried out within 48 hours, mold begins to grow and they get it's exponential after that.

So I don't care how good of a house mold proof house that you can build, if you have water going to it, you can have a mold problem. So it's going to happen to, to us all. Now let's figure out how to look at it, how to find it and how to manage it. Yeah. And I just wanted people to know that background of you that I know about. Why you understand this at a much deeper level. So thank you for sharing that story. You bet. So so it's how I feel about and how I look at my job. Everybody I see, I don't care who you are, I don't have any of your medical data yet.

I see you in this toxic whiskey barrel, okay? You're in that toxic whiskey barrel. It's up to your chin, and you're drowning in it. My job. I feel for the next step is to go into that property, reduce that toxic load so your own body and your doctor can get you better. Now, let's look at how I do it. You know, there's two different ways I look at doing things. And you'll see me talk about elephants and red flags quite a bit, but it's all about going into that house to start with.

How mold exposure is detected in homes 12:15

There's a lot of different ways initially to look for mold. And a lot of doctors out there do this. Okay, let's do some air sampling. Let's do state agar plates. Let's do spore trap analysis. Let's do Army. It is all data. I'm a huge data guy. There's a problem or limitation with all of these air sampling methods. So let's say you have mold all behind your master shower. It's fat happy and content behind that master shower so you don't see it, right? That mold makes you sick three different ways.

The mold spore itself, the mycotoxins that it produces and the mbox that it produces. Mold, volatile organic compounds. So we can sense. Yes. Yeah. Because these are elements. Mycotoxins. Yeah. And that they're actually different. So in boxes, what I describe as a side effect of mold actively feeding. So when you smell the musty old basement that is mold actively feeding it, it's producing an odor. The best analogy I have for you imagine your husband goes to Taco Bell. He eats a lot of Taco Bell.

There is a side effect of that, right? So very, very similar with mold. So when mold is actually feeding, usually it can let off an odor. So that odor basically has four different distinct odors to my specific nose. But when I smell that or if you smell a mal odor, a musty odor inside the house, there's a great chance that that that's in the air since it's it's telling you that, hey, there's a problem inside this house when you to figure out where it's at. Where's that smell coming from? There's a problem.

But so. So those are the three ways that that mold makes you sick. But but let's see. Mold works like a dandelion out in the yard, right? Dandelion. As soon as you kick it, blow disturb it. Thinks it's going to die, throws its mold spores out to regenerate somewhere else. So all these are looking for mold spores or high form fragments. In our case. So there's limitations to each one of these ways, of air testing. Some of them are a lot more expensive than others. And we can get into extreme detail into that.

But the biggest thing is, is, hey, it's a great first tool, one of the tools of about $40,000 worth of gear that I'm going to bring into your house to find where these problems are coming from and which is I think the most important thing is finding the elephant, because I just do air testing and it tells me I have a problem. That's all it's telling me. I need to know where that problem is. So looking at infrared cameras, moisture meters, VOC meters, ultrafine particle counters, EMF meters, there's a lot of different ways that we need to go into that property and find the elephants in red flags in the house that are causing the issues that you're having in your body.

So let's let's couple questions here. One before, can we on the last slide, one, it talked about the four different smells that your nose picks up. And one of them is that musty basement kind of smell. Can you describe the others? Because I don't think people are, as familiar with connecting those with mold. You bet. Urine. So, so. And and I just just say what it is. It's here is the urine smell to me, but my nose can distinguish between human urine, pet urine, and mold. I don't know why. It's, I guess that's a gift that I have, but it has the what?

I called a urine odor to number three. It's what I call the old antique smell. I imagined my grandmother's, sewing machine or this real old piece of furniture here that has a very unique odor to it. One time when I smelled it, I was around a washing machine in a ladies house in Boulder, and I went to the washing machine. Couldn't find anything left. What, two feet? I smell it again. So I go back to the washing machine. Can't find it. I walk away again, smell it again to run, go back. And when I turn around, go back.

The third time I see six picture frames that were backed up against the side of the the wall next to the washer. It was the picture frames, that were in a household that was heavily mold damaged, and they brought in from the old house to the new house. But you can smell it all over the all over the wood, the wood frame. So that that's the third is what I call the old antique smell. Fourth is what I call the sweet banana smell. And I don't know if you smelled, the glycol that they used in fire suppression systems.

So let's say your office has a fire sprinkler system. So a lot of times it's the liquid that's in that it to me, it has what I call the banana smell, a sweet banana smell. And that's usually more yeast or bacteria that I'm smelling into those areas. But that that's the four distinct smells that my nose has. Interesting. And so I'm also taking away from this, that we have to use a lot of different testing methods. We can't just use, some people are just doing the air sampling like the spore trap and that's it.

And they might do, a visual inspection, but you going really in-depth here, and when somebody has these kind of health issues, you need to make sure that Mold Specter is going to be this detail oriented and this comprehensive. And the other thing is jumping out here for me, Jeff, is that you have EMF meters, and I have not had an inspector tell me that that's part of their toolkit. Can you talk about that a little bit more? Why? Where are you bringing in the EMF leaders? I, we we definitely want to be looking for EMF because we know it's a trigger for mast cell activation.

So why is it in your toolkit? The reason why it's in my toolkit and I don't have all the data for you. Beth I'm a pretty smart guy in a lot of areas. EMF is an area that here's my belief, and I think that eventually this that'll come out, but with like 5G or 4G or EMS, let's say I have power lines all outside my house and I you walk outside and you can hear that buzzing, right? Well, let's go back to how mold works. Mold works like a dandelion out in the yard cuz it it feels threatened or disturbed.

It can throw out mold spores or mycotoxins to either defend itself or regenerate somewhere else.

EMF, modern buildings, and why mold is worse now 18:38

So now I imagine you have this ultrasonic sound. It's the best way I can describe it to you. It's kind of like, they make them for pet collars, and you hear this high, high pitch that you can't hear, but your pet can, and it drives it crazy. You know, it tells it to stop doing what it's doing. And that's how I look at 5G. You have this sound or this intrusion that's coming into your house, this electronic that's coming into your house, and mold doesn't know what it is. It scared. So it puts it into a constant fight, fight or flight.

And it wants to fight. So it's either going to be producing like the toxins or mold spores out in the air all the time, because it feels it's threatened all the time. So that makes sense. Yeah. It's definitely and I, I have this suspicion as well. And I think that's a big part. Not the only reason, but a big reason why mold toxicity in people's homes has been getting to be a worse and worse issue, especially in the last 20 years, is we've brought in all the Wi-Fi routers, the smart devices, all the smart homes, and I've even noticed in rentals that I've had, like Airbnb's, the mold is so much worse than the smart homes than in the homes that just aren't wired up.

And they have a low powered router. And my guess is that there's a connection there. Yeah. And my pretty educated guess is that, you know, you may have some mold issues in the house, but it's not this huge elephant. So they still still elephants. But because we have all that energy going on, it's putting even that smaller problem that's usually a small elephant, somebody's house. Now it's a huge elephant because that mold is constantly being threatened. Now, Jeff, we know that we've had mold on the planet longer than human beings have been on the planet, and we know that there has been mold in people's homes for generations.

And even I think about, you know, some of my relatives that had root cellars and going down the and getting the canned green beans out of there and things like that, and people weren't sick back then like they are today. So the emfs may be a factor, but I know you've identified some other things that may be factors as well. Can we talk about that and why? Why is mold a bigger issue now than it was, say, in the 50s, 60s and 70s? Yeah, and I think there's a couple reasons for that. But probably one of the biggest things that I've looked at is how a house is built, you know, just like you're saying, you know, grandma, she had a dirt floor, basement jam jars with mold growth all over them.

But nobody was sick. Well, her house looked like a sieve. She got so much air exchange inside of that property. And dilution is the solution. So? So we on the box building in the mycotoxins building in the. You're exactly right. Because now we've energy efficient in everything since 1974 the Arab oil embargo. Everything just, you know, hey, let's build this energy efficient houses. And they they even put one plan. It's called the Arkansas plan. And they basically this queen put plastic around the entire house.

Now you have any type of moisture intrusion behind the wall. It can't dry out. And then it all starts growing up the wall. And now all those everything in that house stays in that house. I always love that analogy. Scooby Doo green gas, because everybody can now see what mold spores mycotoxins in the box looked like, because now they can see there's green gas. So you have all this green gas behind a wall or a master shower cavity. That green gas comes out into the air, gets into your Hvac system, gets distributed through the entire house.

And until you open these windows and doors, it is extremely potent inside that house. Now, I think there's other factors too. I think there's, you know, food, processed food, you know, all the metal toxins that we have. There's some other issues, but emfs but but definitely this way that we build our houses and it not communicating with the breathable air outside or getting good air exchange and no dilution. I think that is one of the biggest reasons why we have more problems inside the house. And I know we had another round of that around 2000, and I've seen so people that there's a certain level of issue in people's who's houses were built after 1974, and then there, I don't know all the details.

I know you probably do with this increased energy efficiency around 2000 again, and then we've got even tighter than we had before of these houses for energy efficiency. So you can have just a micro leak in a water pipe or I think about we disconnected the line to the fridge. I saw Spencer because I knew like, this line is going to leak at some point and I'd rather make ice and ice cube trays that I can control than have that water line going to that fridge. And I know it's going to leak under that floor at some point.

Yeah. And here's one thing. I'm glad you brought that up, because if we don't get a chance to talk about later on, be disturbed, they have. I went around and bought, water sensors, specifically about the goby on Amazon. But they make a lot of different companies make them, but they're all battery operated. You put it behind your behind your, washing machine, behind your refrigerator, underneath your sinks. So if there is a leak, water hits the top of that or side of that or under that, that alarm is going to go off.

So it tells you you have a leak. And if you can find that leak and stop it and have it dried out within 48 hours, you're not going to have mold. So getting those water, alert systems in place would be a wish. Everybody did it. So that's a great tip to use the water alarms. And I wanted to go to one more thing that you and I have talked about before, that's playing a role in the increase in environmental mold issues and, and mold toxicity, mold illness from environmental mold. And that is the fungicides, paints and all the other fungicides that are used being overused, almost like we had all the antibacterial overuse and now we've got superbugs and we've got antibacterial resistant bacteria.

Can you talk about how that's happening here? And in the fungal kingdom as well. Yeah. So strains now all of a sudden you're seeing Candida, certain strains of Candida being killers. And when you know Candida. Hey, that's just a yeast. And now we have some types of candida sat there that can actually take your life. So you're exactly right. We're using, so we're using a lot of those, biocides, germicidal, fungicides, even ozone, which we'll hit later. And they're building up a resistance to those things.

And over time, some of the things that we're using inside of our house, we shouldn't have been using, we thought we were doing a good thing by being preventative and probably the best prevention that we should have done is use building materials in our house that are a retardant for mold. So we use sheetrock. You know, I've got cellulose paper on both sides of gypsum. It's a food source. Mold loves cellulose, will use cellulose insulation. We'll use, paper backed insulation, around our kitchen sinks under your kitchen sink.

Is that high concrete board hardy backer board or just sheetrock? Your your platform underneath your kitchen sink. It's, formaldehyde loaded. Press particle wood instead of plywood. That sealed. So the building materials that we use is probably the best defense for something like that. Instead of using a mold resistant paint or something else of that nature that's actually doing just the opposite of what we want,

Prevalence of mold problems and hidden building damage 26:48

we're now producing these superbugs when we shouldn't have it. So just to really bring this home about why this is such a huge trigger for people with mass cell activation syndrome, I've seen study that were done and they're outdated at this point. But what I have read was there was a study that was done, in the 1980s. So even before we had all these EMF issues and before the second round of building code changes that showed that something like 35% of all schools had water damage that can lead to toxic mold issues.

There was a study that looked at 50% of homes, and it was, a very high amount. It was over 70% of commercial buildings. What are you seeing in terms of and now I know some of this is going to be biased by, you don't get called in buildings that probably don't have issues. But what do we know about the prevalence of mold toxicity in buildings today? Is is far greater than any data that I have seen published. So I would say and I get asked that question all the time, and I tell them, yeah, it's a loaded question.

You know, I get called in because someone's getting sick from mold, but you'd be amazed at how many people don't speak up. You know, I was at a sheriff's station and two people in that entire building were complaining. You know, 100 people in two are complaining. Well, those two are the reason why they found the major massive mold problems that they had in that property. So, there's, I would say at least 90% of every building that I walk into or a home residential that I walk into is at least going to have one elephant, what I call an elephant inside the house.

That would make somebody sit in. You say, no, I don't have hla, I don't have the interior or my APL is 2 or 3 things aren't going to take my blood brain barrier. I do have some mold sensitivities, on the IG panel, but if I stay around a big enough problem for a long enough period of time, I don't care who you are, your immune system will get broken down and you'll end up just like my youngest daughter. Well, and, you know, just I don't have HLA or MD for either, but I was exposed to a lot of chemicals as a, in childhood.

I grew up in farmland, and there was mold, you know, in the home that we grew up in. And I have Lyme. So I think that and what I've seeing in the practice, as well as it's now beyond the those genetic, variants that a lot of people are getting ill even without those. Yeah. Because in, in this so go back to this toxic whiskey barrel. And, you know, I always say it's amazing how many people are up to their ankles or their calves in a toxic whiskey barrel, and they just don't know what they have lined, that Bartonella.

They have these other autoimmune issues going on. But until mold is introduced, mold is the atom bomb in the particulate matter world. As soon as mold is introduced, all of a sudden that toxic whiskey barrel just gets completely filled up. And then all these other issues that they have had manifest themselves. Oh, you have Lyme, a straight line, but you can't treat that Lyme until you get them all back into control. Right? And, you know, I have seen people that they were they knew they had been bitten by ticks earlier in their life.

And then they've gone 20 years. They had rarely really spent time in nature. They hadn't hardly been outside, no tick bites. And then they had a mold exposure. And now the line was active. And we'll see that quite a bit. People can have and most people have Epstein-Barr, but Epstein-Barr will get active with the mold exposure and it can go the other way. People can have had mold exposure early in, have those mold toxins in their body, but they can stay somehow ahead of it, and then they get bitten by a tick.

And now the mold issue, the mold toxicity is a big deal because it's like the straw that breaks the camel's back. And I think we're all kind of swimming in that toxic soup because of the amount of chemicals were exposed to. It's astronomical compared to 100 years ago. It is in so many of my bone patients are also chemically sensitive. They go hand in hand. Yeah. You know, I don't wear Cologne. I don't use dryer sheets just because I'm going into these houses where people are. Since super sensitive, I can tell you firsthand I greatly appreciate that and know most of the people listening to this probably do to thank.

Thank you. That was such great information in the background. One other quick question. While retirement test. So a lot of people will run a mold plate and the, the mold plate key that they get tells them if they have four more spores to not be worried. But you and I have talked about a whole different key for people that are sensitive. People have nasal activation that needs to be more stringent. Can we step through that? Because I think that's so critical for people to have that information. Yeah.

And that that's any of these ways of sampling, but specifically the agar plate, you know, it's picking up what's viable into the air. But okay, you have 0 to 4 colonies and all four of those colonies are a toxic mold. Or you have two toxic molds that are showing up on the same auger plate or the same room, but your total is only four cities. Typically. That's normal even for a medical center, the patient. But that's a huge red flag for me as a mold investigator. So when I'm saying that, hey, we need to start asking some bigger questions, because that's an indicator that there's a larger problem going on inside of that property.

Same way with air sampling. Hey. Hey, Tony. I'm only showed up at that one count. One raw colony, which is 13 cast per meters cubed. Well, it shouldn't have shown up in the house at all.

Interpreting mold tests and finding the source 32:48

So it's a you even know, a mold inspector or a lab is clearing that information. Doesn't mean that there's not a hidden problem, hiding somewhere else. And I've seen the same thing with army armies. Just my least favorite method of testing. Never look at the army score. But I do look at the types of models that are showing up. You know, I had a lady in Colorado that was, I think she was a -1.8 or something like that on the Army, so look. Great. But she had 16 K Tonio ups, you know. And sure enough there's that.

And I did the inspection on the house, and there's this major mold problem less than eight feet away from our Hvac system. So I don't look at scores. I don't always look at numbers. I look at the types of molds, and they're indicators for me as something bigger going on. So can you just share which types of mold on the army that if they're showing up even at low levels, and even if the Army is at low levels, it probably need to be reaching out for help. Great question. So, the first place my eyes go on Army is to ask you about your son.

Okay. Tell him you know, they're heavy and sticky. A lot more difficult to get on some of these other methods. So what I do like about the Army, so I see, stacking k Tony him above a five. I think there's a problem. JFK Tony is just showing up at an 8 or 10, but I don't have any stacking. Well, SAC boss Jose K, Tony and the brother system also more likely they're traveling together. So we just haven't found the stack yet. This probably there's just a matter of identifying it. The next is your astragalus penicillin group.

I go through those, now those levels, I will allow it to be a lot higher than a lot of people will. But there's you have one of those that's showing up high. That kind of leads me to source areas. The bad thing about Army, most people, when they do army, they do a sweeper. And they do it of the whole house. I did upstairs at the main level, and I did the basement. And it doesn't help guide me to a direction. Even army on cloud form levels are all scenario levels, which is, you know, your group to on an army.

So I walked into a lady's house that had 44,000, clan a swarm, which led me to my first question to her, do you have a dirt floor crawl space? No, I don't have a crawl space. Well, she had two of them. She just didn't know it. There, hidden and in those crawl spaces was significant visible muscle growth all throughout both of them. Well, the cloud spawns. What led me to find where the actual problem source was. Now, that's so helpful because we know class volume doesn't make mycotoxins, so we're not usually looking at a toxic mold, but you're interpreting it from your experience going, oh, that's a really high amount that shouldn't be there even at that level.

But what about mu core? And well, Lamia, oh. Hit me core first. Especially on an agar plate. Pets will give off me core. I see that a lot. But most times my immediate brain goes to if you have me core, at least in higher amounts, more than likely you have an ongoing leak in wherever. I, in my core, led me to even it showed up in one colony on an auger plate. It can lead me to okay, in that kitchen, let's look for a leak. And where I did find the leak is where. Oh, hey there, sticky all underneath here.

Your platform of your kitchen sink stack. You didn't show up on the mole plate, but the me caught dead. And it led me to the ongoing leak that led me to find the more extensive damage. So if there was any for you might find sticky as well. Any. So it depends on how long that that water intrusion had been going on to what type of mold. And I'll quickly go over that. So when a mold intrusion isn't dried out within 48 hours, mold begins to grow. Those are generally my baby molds, right? Clouds form, micas form, so a contamination type molds, then it stays about a week and not being dried out.

Aspergillus penicillin generally show up. Now you change moisture content 1%. A different toxic mold can show up. Colvera epitomizes, you know, you have these other molds that are showing up and going away depending on moisture content, but that moisture intrusion stays for a month or longer. There's where you see your K tiny Miss Active office start to show up in gem. If you have an ongoing leak and you don't know what that it, chances are you haven't known about it for quite some time and a month or more, or a year or more, or two years or more, and that is going to be stacking ketone units in behind me.

And this is why I recommend people start with if they're going to do home testing, they do the agar plates, the mold plates and the Army, because we know that stack Evo Terrace Olympia should tell me, these aren't going to grow on a mold plate, but what I've put together. For.