Integrative Pediatric Care For MCAS & Histamine Intolerance

Introduction and Guest Background 0:00

Welcome back to our reversing mast cell activation syndrome and histamine intolerance summit. I'm your host, Dr. Meg Mill. And today we're going to talk all about our kids. This is a great topic. And here to educate us on this important topic is my esteemed colleague, Dr. Elisa Song. Dr. Song is an integrative pediatrician, functional medicine expert, and the creator of Healthy Kids Happy Kids, an online resource to help practitioners and parents bridge the gap between conventional and integrative pediatrics.

Thank you so much for joining us, Dr. Song. Hey Meg , thank you so much. It's an honor for me to be here. Well, it's wonderful to have you. And you know, we need more people like you because I know there there is that gap. I love how you say the bridge between integrative and conventional. And you and I were talking about how you can have both. You know, it doesn't have to be totally one way or the other. So thank you for all of you do. And if you would just give us to start out, I love to hear personal stories and sort of what got you to where you are today.

Yeah. You know, it's it's, my story is not necessarily a personal story in the sense that many, practitioners who come to, a more integrative, functional approach, they've had their own story with maybe their own health history or, a family member's health history where conventional medicine didn't really provide all the answers. And so they they needed to look broader. And I mean, knock on wood, that hasn't been the case with me. I think it was just, a confluence of the, you know, the right time, right place.

So, you know, when I was at Stanford as an undergrad, I actually was studying to be a lawyer. I was a political science major, and, I was really, really, interested in working in children's advocacy. And so, I spent an internship in, in, Washington, DC at the Children's Defense Fund fighting for children's Medicare benefits. And, you know, all that, and it really, it it really inspired me. But I realized, you know what? I'm not going to really work with children, and I love working with children.

So then, I mean, my senior year, I shifted gears and I thought, you know, I think I want to be a pediatrician. So I took all of my premeds and and it was there during that year where I came across this flier, and I'm going to do it myself. This is probably oh, gosh, I'm I graduated high school in 88. So this was around like 1990, 1991, where I came across a flier for a conference of the American Holistic Medical Association, which doesn't exist anymore. but I took myself there for whatever reason, you know, as a senior in, undergrad.

And I heard from these people that just really blew my mind about the concept of holistic medicine. And they were folks who were just really starting to get known in the space, like Andrew While and Deepak Chopra. Joan Borisenko. And so I thought, you know, I think I want to do this. And so I remember calling my mom, who was a conventional ObGyn, and telling her, look, mom, I think I want to become a naturopathic doctor. And she's like, she's like, what is that? And she didn't dissuade me. But, you know, no one in my circle knew what naturopathy was.

And so they really encouraged me to go to medical school. Rather, the conventional medical school route first and kind of explore,

What Integrative Pediatrics Means 3:31

alternative medicine is what it was called then. and so so I did. But all through my path that that desire for more and more, quote alternative, holistic, integrated approach, really. wove through my path. And so, I mean, this is where I am today and even starting out of residency at UCSF, my goal was to start an integrated pediatric practice. I had the opportunity to, create an elective in an, integrative rheumatology and, really saw the potential to, practice the true preventive medicine that pediatrics should be, and not just the kind of Band-Aid emergency medicine, which, you know, conventional medicine.

We need that. I mean, when when you have children who, you know, are have acute, you know, serious infections or, you know, cancers, there are medications that are, are truly lifesaving. but then we, we know that there's not really much in conventional medicine that builds a foundation to have a thriving child in front of you. So that's where kind of weaving the two is, has been my life's work. That's so impactful. And could you just give us for people that don't know what integrative pediatrics is and why a parent would consider a more holistic approach when their child has a persistent health issue?

Yeah. So it's, you know, the when I was first starting on this journey, there was an office of the NIH called the National Center for Complementary and Alternative Medicine, and it was really called alternative. And that word just doesn't fit, or it's not the appropriate word for what I believe is the best medicine for kids and for adults. because it really shouldn't be an either or. And that's where moving from alternative to, you know, I started using the word holistic, but then holistic. Really and truly all pediatricians should be holistic.

I mean, we really should be looking at a child holistically in the context of their family lives, their social lives, their school, their community. So, that wasn't necessarily the appropriate word either. And so integrative truly. and compasses, the, the way of practicing that, tries to incorporate the best of conventional pediatrics and these other modalities and integrate them into a comprehensive, holistic plan for your child in front of you. So it doesn't have to be either or. And that's what a lot of parents get a little bit confused about.

They think, well, you know, if I'm going to go the conventional route, I can't do anything that's in the more kind of natural, holistic realm. or if I'm going to be integrative or I'm a holistic, then I have to throw out every single conventional thing. And it really doesn't have to be that way. And so, you know, for instance, antibiotics, right. When we look at antibiotics, antibiotics have been touted as one of the, you know, most important public health discoveries of the 20th century. And it is true, you know, in, in, you know, in times past, people would die of simple skin infections.

And so we need those antibiotics. And yet what we didn't understand until relatively recently are the downstream effects of antibiotics that don't just kill all the beneficial bacteria, but also all the sorry, don't just kill all the, harmful bacteria that we want to, but also can kill all the beneficial bacteria in your gut. And we know for children that gut microbiome sets a foundation for the developing immune system and their developing brain and nervous system, and just one round of antibiotics where as an infant can increase almost double your child's risk of, almost every single allergic disease by the time they're four, and can increase the risk of mental health concerns by up to 50% by the time their older kids are teenagers.

So now we know those downstream effects. And what integrative medicine does is take that conventional medicine, understand when conventional medications are necessary, and then take that integrative approach to know how to use functional medicine supplements, diet and lifestyle

How Histamine and Mast Cells Affect Kids 7:54

to counteract those unintended consequences. And better yet, leave that child thriving even more for whatever they're going to face next. And so that's where an integrative approach truly blends the best of all worlds to help your kids thrive. Yeah, that's great, and so important and true. And I love how you said the blend because I do. I agree with you. It doesn't have to be all one way. And so bringing both of those together to really, you know, what you're saying is the best care for the patient you're making.

You want the best care for the patient and whatever modality it is that works best for them. So that's. Wonderful. you know, I love that you say that because, it really has to take into account, you know, your, your treatment plan as a practitioner. So for all practitioners listening. Right? I mean, your treatment plan for a practitioner, really has to take into account your patient's story and their values. And, you know what? What a lot of people don't, recognize is that evidence based medicine.

I mean, the term evidence based medicine has been thrown around so much, especially in the past several years. Right. where everything must be science based. And let's think about what evidence based medicine really is. When I was in medical school, evidence based medicine was just being, so, discussed as a phrase. There was no such thing as evidence based medicine or the term evidence based medicine. in the beginning of my medical school career, by the end, there were there were different definitions of evidence based medicine.

So it's a relatively new concept. one of the most, impactful definitions and the definitions that we carry forward with us for evidence based medicine is that it is a conscientious, explicit, judicious, and reasonable use of modern best evidence in making decisions about the care of individual patients. So yes, but what does that mean? Evidence based medicine integrates our clinical experience with patient values and the best available research information, because we know that research lags way behind what we need, right?

We also know that the resource that we have takes forever ever to get translated into clinical medicine. I mean, sometimes they say the average, you know, clinical the research can take up to 17 years to get translated into our clinical practice. Well, in pediatrics it can take even longer. I mean, you know, our first our first research paper in our databases is, on leaky gut and children because way back in the 1980s and so yet treating increased intestinal permeability is still not part of conventional medicine.

And that's 40 years later. Right. And so when we think about evidence based medicine as, yes, we use the research that we have at hand, but we also take into account our clinical experience. Your practitioners clinical experience counts all of their, you know, years and decades of experience in what has helped their patients, that is part of evidence based medicine and then also patient values. Right. What what does this patient or this family bring with us in terms of what modalities they're more interested in or what they've had, maybe not such great experiences with that you think may be important for them, but maybe just not right now, because that's not really part of their value set.

And so we really want to take all of that into account. And that's how we become the best practitioners. And that's how, you know, for patients they understand. Right. This is the kind of medicine that I really want to practice. This is what evidence based medicine is, and this is what I should be looking for in my practitioner to partner with. And I thank you for sharing that. That's so important. So when we're looking at pediatric conditions, do you see histamine and mast cell activation involved in any specific patient population?

Yeah. You know, I, I will say and as, as you know, in your practice, histamine and mast cell activation, is an underlying factor for so many chronic and persistent health concerns that, really, so many folks aren't even aware of. And when we look back, I always, you know, for for science geeks out there, I would recommend really looking at the work of Doctor Robert Navarro. he described something called the cell danger response, which is really the, the, the primitive way that our cells developed to deal with any, any stressor, whether it's an infection, environmental toxin or psychological stress or trauma and all of our cells go through the same process of the cell danger response.

It's three different phases in a cycle, and they must complete all three phases to get back to health. And what happens in a chronic health concern is that our cells get stuck somewhere in in one of these three phases, and when they get stuck, there's persistent activation of some, you know, dysregulated processes and mast cell activation or histamine concerns, can be a big part of that is one of the pieces where, sometimes our cells can get stuck. And so when we think about this process, we can see why mast cell activation or histamine intolerance can be an underlying problem in so many health concerns.

Now, some of the obvious ones are the ones where we know histamine is involved, like, you know, asthma and allergies and hay fever and anaphylactic food allergies. I mean, certainly, yes. I mean there is histamine involved there. But we also know that for many kids, even apart from this category of quote, a topic in allergic disease is, there there is histamine, a muscle activation involved, autoimmune conditions which are on the rise, at an alarming rate in children. Autoimmunity, for sure. can have his to me and and mast cell issues underlying so we know for Crohn's or juvenile arthritis there's an autoimmune neuropsychiatric condition called pandas or pandas.

Pediatric acute onset neuropsychiatric syndromes when it's triggered by strep, it's called pandas. But this is a, an acute onset of OCD rages, separation anxiety, cognitive impairment, the list goes on and on. But an acute onset that can be triggered by infections or triggered by environmental toxins. And for many, many of my kids with pans or pandas, mast cell activation and and managing their histamine is so important for their healing. And then we get to, you know, all sorts of neuropsychiatric concerns and neurodevelopmental concerns like ADHD or anxiety or autism spectrum disorders, where we know that histamine, it's not just an allergy, you know, itchy skin problem.

Histamine also acts as a neurotransmitter. So we can see the far reaching effects of histamine on virtually every single cell in our body. And that's why when your child has any persistent health concern, we want to see is histamine involved? Is this something that we need to mop up. Yeah I know and I think that's what makes it so confusing because it is involved in almost every cell in your body. And some of these symptoms aren't the symptoms. People typically think well when they're thinking of histamine and allergy.

You know you're right. You're typically thinking of allergy asthma those kind of symptoms. But we're seeing the neurological symptoms. We're seeing things like migraines and skin issues and GI issues and all of these things that are involved. And it's hard for people to unpack and know that these are all connected things. Like you need to have that that string that ties everything together. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. And so when you're looking at a patient like this, how can you tell if a, how do you really tell if, histamine is an issue for a child?

So, you know, when we think about, how histamine can manifest as symptoms, whether it's you're a child or adult, I think about all the different places where histamine is involved. Right. And so when we think about, and so there are actually of now we recognize four different kinds of histamine receptors. So that means where histamine attaches to different cells. And so as you were saying the more classic allergy symptoms are really involving our H1 or histamine type one receptors that tend to be on our skin.

Or maybe, you know, some is on our blood vessels, but these are going to be if your child has the classic symptoms of allergy, like itchy skin, hives, wheezing, you know, itchy eyes, that is going to be more of an

Recognizing Histamine Symptoms and Testing 17:08

H1 response, right? The blood vessels, I mean, can be involved with the hives, but that's where sometimes we might get low blood pressure, right? Or varying blood pressure. We might get, you know, rapid heart rate, with H2 now H2, histamine type two receptors, those are in our gastric lining. Those are implicated in reflux. Any child who has reflux I think well, what is going on. What is triggering this histamine response. But that is a histamine response. many people don't realize that over-the-counter Pepcid or, you know, Zantac when it is available.

Those are histamine blockers, the very same as Benadryl or zero check or Claritin or histamine blockers. But they are different kinds of histamine blockers. You know, a leg Brasier tech, Claritin, Benadryl. Those are histamine one blockers, whereas Pepcid and Zantac are histamine two blockers. We also have H3 receptors and histamine type four receptors that are in our brain and our immune cells. So some of the other symptoms that we might see, our brains symptoms like you mentioned, migraines, anxiety, some of the symptoms that I'll see more frequently, in kids and just a tip off me to look for histamine issues are if they can't tolerate heat, you know, if they're outside a pee and they just get so flushed in the face and hot and red, even when it's not that hot outside, and even when they haven't been exerting themselves that much, they do not like beach vacations.

I mean, they would rather be, you know, in a colder environment. sometimes you'll see changing sensitivities to foods. And so that's where it can be even more confusing, because you can have, you know, reactions to a food one day and then the next day they seem fine. And you think, well, what is going on? It's not. And your doctor may tell you, well, it can't be a food. It's not a food allergy. They're testing negative food allergies. And if they don't react the same way all the time, then it's not, you know, a food problem.

But we see that in our kids and we see that in adult patients. GI symptoms, besides of reflux, just having persistent nausea and just feeling like, oh, I can't, you know, I don't want to eat. Or when they eat, they feel nauseous right away. Or, you know, if they have, you know, recurring vomiting or diarrhea, that can also be another sign. So it can be really confusing, as you said, because you're like, oh my gosh. But these are so many different symptoms. So honing in on, you know, I would say facial flushing heat intolerance, those are going to be big tip offs.

of course your allergy symptoms are going to be big tip offs. any GI symptoms. And then what I also look for something called dramatic graph is or dermal graph ism. So what I'll do for kids when they're in the office, I'll just take their arm and I'll say, look, I'm just going to scratch your name or your initials, into your forearm with my fingernail. And I'll just do like, you know, maybe an E and an S, you know, for me. Right? And I'll just sit there and I say, okay, now we're just going to wait and watch, right?

We're just ignore it. And then after a couple of minutes, I'll take a look. And what I'm looking for is if there is, a big raised white area that's outlining, you know, the initials with red surrounding. So basically you're creating a hive, right? these are kids who might, you know, when they are leaning on the desk with their hand, they take their hand off and you're like, oh my gosh, you can see, you know, the white imprint with a reddish surround, a wrap, you know, around their fingerprints or, you know, any little scratch becomes almost hive like that because there's so much histamine floating around, in their system.

So I look for clinical clues and, and, and lab work can help, too. lab work, though, you know, as a caveat, I mean, histamine issues and mast cell activation, it's not like a constant steady state, right? I mean, you can have moments where histamine levels are fine and then or there's no mast cells being activated. And the moments like when you're exercising or when you're really stressed out, where things are really activated and so your lab could look totally normal if you're in, in a calm state and you're feeling really good.

So what else sometimes have kids do? And I've done this, of course. Like have them like run, run, run, do some exercise right before they get to the lab so that we're seeing can we trigger something, you know, that can show us there might be some some histamine issues or mast cell activation. So and then I'll measure a plasma histamine. there's, total eosinophils might be elevated. that's those are more implicated in allergies and sometimes parasites. there's a there's a blood marker called an eosinophilic cationic protein that's not commonly run, but that can sometimes be helpful as well.

a total IgG immunoglobulin type E can sometimes be helpful, especially if kids have really high, allergy markers. And sometimes kids will have through the roof like dust mite allergies or pollen allergies or animal allergies. And they have zero, like nasal respiratory symptoms. And so, you know, parents and kids are shocked, but they're manifesting in other ways. They're manifesting in the reflux or the anxiety or the, you know, the migraines. and then so there's one stool company, a functional stool company that that tests for an eosinophilic protein.

And so that can be sometimes helpful to, to know, is there a lot of, you know, allergic sensitivity going on. Do I need to, you know, look at histamine issues. Those are all fascinating. And, you know, it's funny when you say this because I have histamine issues. I think that's part of why I'm passionate about this. And and when you're saying all of those things, I was having all of those symptoms as a kid. I mean, I knew I had allergies, but I had, you know, the nausea and the anxiety and then even, I remember my I had to have my mom take my clothes out of my dresser because the smell, even of the clothes from being in the dresser made me.

I was so sensitive. But back then, nobody even knew what any. When I think about men. So it's not until I was in my 30s that I could start unpacking a lot of these and start to actually feel better, and it was years and years, so it's just like, so great that now parents can hear people like you sharing. And then you know what? Just because my child is little, I think that's another point. Just because they're little doesn't mean that they can't be bothered and be having some of these. I think sometimes we think, oh, they're young, they are fine.

It's just they'll outgrow it and things like that too. Yeah, absolutely. And that's something, you know, that the, the earlier you can recognize that there are, you know, potential concerns going on and can address them. is the easier it is, right? I mean, the longer inflammation has kind of, you know, stuck around and your and your cells develop a memory of how to respond to certain situations. it's it's like they become habituated to respond, you know, to certain foods or certain environmental factors.

And so it teaching your cells how to have, you know, healthier habits. It's a lot easier if those older habits haven't already set in. I mean, that's true for anything in life, right? Exactly. Yes. Now let's keep going and talk about what you what you do about it. Because I know, you know, when you're working with the pediatric population, kids are pickier. So if we're looking at a low histamine diet, you know, we use food as medicine. How do you sort of tailor this approach to a child? Yeah. So, you know, it can be,

Treating Histamine Issues in Children 24:58

really challenging to work with children. And yet it can be really rewarding to work with children. Because here's the thing. I mean, children, just from that example, that they have less garbage built up, you know, they're just they're younger. And so it's it's typically easier to move kids back in the direction of health, than for someone who's, you know, the 30s or 40s or 50s and, has had, you know, life long, inflammation and, you know, health concerns that have piled up. And so, you know, when I look at an integrative approach to, histamine issues and Marseille issues in children, well, we also want to recognize is that the histamine in the mast cell issues, they're a symptom of something else.

I mean, they're not just a standalone. Oh, you have mass activation. It's like, well, why do you have mast cell activation, right. What is triggering or causing, your histamine intolerance. And it may be multiple things. I think, you know, in functional medicine, one of the things that, the, functional medicine has done a really good job with is helping, patients to understand that they really want to get to the root cause of what's going on with their health concerns, not just, manage the symptoms, because those symptoms then just keep coming right back.

Right. Or new symptoms develop. Now, one of the things, though, that I think we have could do a better job in functional medicine with is helping parents and patients understand that there's typically never just one root cause. Right. It's typically multiple things that have coalesced. And maybe one thing was that, you know, the straw that broke the camel's back. And we hang on to that one thing, you know, but it's usually this whole backstory of things that have built up. And so there are typically then are multiple root causes that we have to address.

And the most important underlying factor that we must address for children and for adults is, is the gut right. Really trying to work on the gut microbiome, which, it's not just an isolated we just work on the gut and forget everything else. But, you know, working on the gut microbiome is really, really important because there are, you know, beneficial bacteria that can degrade histamine and can help reduce histamine that gets absorbed from our gut. There are organisms that can create more histamine.

Right. And so if we have a balanced gut microbiome then then we don't have as much histamine being released. we also need to make sure our gut lining in that gut microbiome, where all of our probiotics and this biotic organisms are living, that our gut lining is really healthy because if our intestinal lining is nice and intact and, you know, and, is not leaky, then we're not going to have as much histamine being absorbed and for that matter, environmental toxins and pathogens and endotoxins being absorbed through our leaky gut.

So we need to start with the gut. And that could be, you know, five other interviews. Right. But just to know, for parents, even if your child has zero gut symptoms, right. Even if they have perfect looking poops every single day and they don't have tummy aches and they don't have heartburn and they never get nauseous, we still start with the gut because the gut informs how your immune system responds and acts. Your gut is a fat, and you know, 70 to 80% of our immune system lies in our gut. Your gut informs how your brain responds and reacts.

70 to 80% of the communication between our gut and our brain via the vagus nerve is from the gut to our brain. So we just really want to make sure we understand how important that gut is, especially for children. And always start there. Now, healing the gut can be a long term process, right? It's a journey. And in the meantime, your kids may be itchy or have migraines or, you know, have have reflux and you think you're thinking, well, what can I do to help them feel better? Because we also need to help reduce the histamine.

Right. And stabilize the mast activation. and so, you know, and I use different modalities in my practice. I use dietary supplements, I use homeopathic medicines, I use essential oils. my body medicine is a big piece of it from a homeopathic standpoint in vitro. So this is in petri dishes. You know, laboratory studies have found the homeopathic APIs malefics can can stabilize the a kind of, blood cell, white blood cell called basophils that were sensitized to dust mites and prevent release of histamine when those basal fills were, attacked by these dust mite antigen particles.

And so APIs malefic is considered quote, the homeopathic antihistamine. So I'll use that in my regimen for kids who have, any histamine concerns. And you know, I've had it's been very helpful for my patients with autoimmunity where histamine is is definitely involved. and then, you know, as far as first line supplements, because I don't want to overload kids, you know, it's not it's not just a matter of, oh, I'll take these, supplements and swallow them every morning or mix them into a concoction if they can't swallow pills.

you know, less can often be more. And so my first lines are going to be mast cell stabilizers, like quercetin or luteal in. They're amazing antioxidants. And these antioxidants can also help support a healthy gut lining. vitamin C, at higher doses of a vitamin C has been found to reduce blood histamine, zinc, which is one of the most common nutrient deficiencies in children. So many kids on zinc anyway. But zinc also can act as a mast cell stabilizer and reduce histamine. And then our omega threes I mean omega threes in our fish oils.

Kids. Most kids are deficient in omega threes. And so you know I consider omega threes and zinc pretty foundational. and then we're adding in some vitamin C and quercetin or luteal. And to reduce that histamine. and then my second line, I mean, I might use sometimes a diamine oxidase enzyme if they're really reactive to foods because I can, reduce, the histamine response, from an absorption from foods that they're eating. and so and then I'll also look at I, you know, from an integrative standpoint, I sometimes do use medications, especially if kids are having really significant histamine or mast cell issues.

So I will use an H1 blocker, a histamine one blocker, but I prefer Zyrtec over other antihistamines. And the reason is that our antihistamine medicines, can all have, anticholinergic properties. And we know the anticholinergic medications, especially if used long term might be linked with an increased risk for dementia. So if I have a young child starting on an antihistamine, and I'd rather choose one like Zyrtec that has minimal anticholinergic properties as opposed to, Claritin or Benadryl that you know, I'll use Benadryl every once, but they have more, more anticholinergic effects.

So I'm just mindful of that as well. because not all H1 blockers are the same. and then I will also use kind of put in an H2 blocker like famotidine. knowing though, that an H2 blocker and even an H1 blocker can disrupt the gut microbiome. So you must be doing gut work at the same time so that you're not further disrupting an already dysregulated gut microbiome. and then, you know, one of the things that we, think about too, is food, right? I mean, you mentioned a low histamine diet. which, you know, for kids and maybe more challenging.

but it's not just about eliminating every single thing with histamine, right? It's really thinking about the histamine load. So, you know, when kids have muscle shoes, sometimes parents will say, okay, oh my gosh, I have to avoid all spinach. Well, not necessarily, but maybe don't have spinach and bananas and avocado in the smoothie. Right. Because that's a big histamine load. And so just thinking about where's what's the load, you know, in my child's day and I will say probably the biggest histamine trigger though for children is sugar, right?

I mean, just really, you know, we have to think about how, sugar, dysregulation. Right. Our blood sugar dysregulation is one of the biggest factors in histamine overload and mast cell issues. And so really working on reducing added sugars in your child's diet. I have parents and kids do an added sugar inventory. Just take a day, a typical day, and just look at all of the, you know, packaged items that you're eating and just write down how much added sugar you're having. you know, with each food.

And it can be shocking how much you're getting even even when you're thinking you're doing the best things for your kid, you know, vanilla Greek yogurt, which is packed. You know, you think it's packed with protein, is packed with probiotics. Sometimes one serving of vanilla Greek yogurt will have, upwards of, like, 30g of added sugar. 30g. That's about, like five teaspoons, right? Actually six. Yeah, about five teaspoons. I mean, that's a lot. And so, for kids, they should be having no more than 25g of added sugar in a day.

So just even lowering where you can, like buying that spaghetti sauce that doesn't have the added sugar, right? Choosing breads like looking at your bread and choosing bread that doesn't have a teaspoon of sugar per slice, you know. And so making just those little shifts can make a big difference in your child's histamine. Yeah. That's great. I have to say that my kids will sometimes pointed out now. So, you know, you teach them in order to find these things. And then I, you know, one time my son was sitting there and it was a it was a condiment that it was organic, you know, but it was it was something you would never think had sugar.

Yeah. He was like, mom, you know what the number one ingredient in this, in this product is? And that, you know, because he's asking I'm like a sugar and he and he's like, I would never have thought it said they they actually will actually jump in and start looking at their products too. Once you teach them, you know, they can give a little bit of pushback at some times. But I think just really getting that in a fun way in your diet and really getting them involved can help. Yeah, absolutely. I think, you know, kids, once they know they can often be our best, you know, best quote police about, you know, the, the foods that we're eating and not policing in a negative way.

But just like, hey, let's, you know, we're kind of like the crossing guard. Let's just make sure everything's, you know, in a, in an appropriate way before we choose to eat this. And so, I remember we were at and I'm not going to say that my kids never have, you know, sugar filled stuff because it's real life. And when they're out with their friends now, they're they're 12 and 14, almost 14. sometimes they will choose things that I wouldn't have chosen for them. but they know, right? Because they'll come home and they'll say, you know, I had the boba tea.

and I did look right. And, and it has like, 35g of added sugar and, and I'll say, look, have that, enjoy it with your friends, but just know, okay, that's a little more than, than really you should have in one day. Let's cushion that with really strong foods, the rest of the day and eat extra vegetables at dinner and just make sure maybe, maybe tomorrow you'll choose something that's not a sugary treat and have something a different kind of a treat. Right? and so, you know, I think just, just laying this foundations because at some point, if you have young kids listening right now, your kids are going to be on their own, you know, grocery shopping for themselves or, you know, out with their friends buying snacks.

Finding Support and Final Advice 37:18

They're going to be at college, you know, cooking for themselves and so if we lay the foundations, they're going to know how to make those healthier choices for themselves when they're independent. And that's what we want. You know, we don't want this, this absolute you can never, ever have this, but just know how do we balance it and how do we know what that balance is? Yes. Yeah, I totally agree. And I just to go back to the gut health, I agree with you that that's so foundational with all of this.

I can't tell you how many stool tests I've run for people that say, well, you know, I don't have any gut issues like this isn't connected, and then you really just kill the gut and it all clears up. So that's something, if you're listening, a big takeaway to just think about and think about for your kids. Have you really looked at gut health? And it's not always symptomatic in the way you're expecting? Yeah, absolutely. Yes. Well thank you so much. You've given us such great information today. And where can everyone find you to learn more.

So the best place to find me is on my website healthykidshappykids.com and also on Instagram, @healthykids_happykids. That's where I post. I try to post, only useful information because I, you know, like you listening your busy parents. So I, I like to really, you know, make my posts and newsletters and blogs just really full of, of, information and not just information but action. Right? Because it doesn't it doesn't help anybody to, you know, pour out all of this, research that can sound really scary without having some solutions.

And there's there's always going to be ways, you know, I just would, would leave, this message for parents who are listening. If your kids do you have chronic health concerns? and you're thinking, oh my gosh, well, they've already had rounds of antibiotics or they've already had X, Y, and Z. We can always move forward. And that's why, you know, summits like this summit are so important to give parents, even more tools and even more solutions, because there is always a way to move forward. There's always a way to, heal a disrupted gut microbiome.

It might take a little longer, but that's okay. I mean, we're not in this, it's not a race. I mean, it's a lifelong journey. And the steps you take now are going to help your kids understand how to how to have the healthy foundation for the rest of their life. Yes, we'll follow her. She has great information. I follow and like you're my go to read information. You know, as a mom, we all want that. We all want to see what we should do. So thank you so much for being here today with us. thank you. Have a great day, everyone.