Full Transcript Introduction to the episode and guest 0:00 As a parent. 0:01 Take care of yourself too. 0:02 Putting on the oxygen mask is not just a trait phrase. 0:06 It means take a deep breath. 0:08 Know you're doing the best you can today and every day. 0:12 And if you mess up, apologize to yourself, to your child, 0:16 to your spouse, to anybody you want to and make the next step. 0:21 And we all mess up and it is a long road, but you can do it. 0:26 Your child can get better. 0:27 And, we're here for you one way or the other. 0:31 This is doctor Talks. 0:33 Real talk from real doctors. 0:35 Only issues that matter to you most. 0:39 Today, on line bytes, we're honored to welcome Doctor 0:42 Nancy O'Hara, renowned pediatrician, fellow 0:45 of the Medical Academy of Pediatrics, special Needs, and a true pioneer 0:49 in functional and integrative approaches to complex childhood illness. 0:54 She's not only a leader in the field, she's also my personal mentor and someone 0:59 whose work has transformed the way I 1:02 and we care for our most vulnerable children. 1:05 And this episode, doctor O'Hara dives deep into two of the most misunderstood 1:10 and misdiagnosed pediatric conditions pots and pans. 1:15 We're going to explore their root causes the immune inflammatory connection, 1:19 and what real recovery can look like. 1:22 Get ready to challenge 1:23 old models, embrace new science, and uncover real hope for healing. 1:26 This is Lyme bites bringing truth to light and healing within reach. 1:30 Let's dive in. 1:32 Thank you so much, doctor O'Hara, for being here. 1:34 Tell the audience a little bit how you got into treating on pediatrics. 1:40 Pediatric Lyme, autism pans. Pandas. 1:44 Oh, that'll take the whole hour. 1:45 But but thank you, Doctor Hinchey. 1:48 Mariah, for for inviting me. 1:50 I, you know, I'm very passionate about this subject. 1:53 And I started my career, as a teacher of children with autism. 1:58 And truth be told, I was a lousy teacher, and I mean that sincerely. 2:03 And I took the easier route 2:04 and went to medical school and thought I was going to do psychiatry, 2:08 then realized I had to take care of adults. 2:10 And I really don't like adults very much, as many of you already know. 2:15 And instead I went into pediatrics and I was a, 2:18 pediatrician, had a lot of children with autism within my practice. 2:22 And one of my patients, a four and a half year old
Dr. O'Hara's path into pediatric functional medicine 2:26 non-speaking, child with severe asthma and allergies. 2:31 I changed their diet, 2:34 for, you know, a diarrheal illness, 2:36 took out dairy, took out gluten, and started speaking. 2:40 And she called me, and I thought it was hogwash. 2:43 Now, this was, you know, over 30 years ago. 2:46 And she said, just go see this guy. 2:50 And that guy was Doctor Sydney Baker, who is the grandfather 2:53 of functional medicine. 2:54 And I was going through four years of infertility at the time 2:58 and went to him as a patient, and it changed my life. 3:01 I have a beautiful 26 year old son, 3:05 who then nine years later, 3:08 devolved into seizure like ticks after a, strep 3:13 infection, a Lyme Borrelia positive tick. 3:18 And I missed Bartonella 3:20 at that time, even though he got better, everything resolved. 3:23 I missed Bartonella, so fast forward seven years later. 3:28 Now finding Bartonella, which had probably been there all along. 3:31 Then mold, then Covid, then BBC. 3:36 So, you know, and there's the, the pots and decided know me on there too. 3:41 So I live it personally. 3:43 Although all of you listening to this podcast, 3:46 you know, don't talk to my son because, I raised him to believe 3:51 that it was his own sheer will and determination that was pulling him up 3:56 from his bootstraps, which has helped with a lot of, 3:59 girlfriends and professors and other things 4:01 that may not be as as helpful to him as they possibly could be. 4:06 But, you know, this disease is treatable. 4:11 And I have learned so much 4:14 over the last 25, 30 years on how we can treat it. 4:19 And and what we first have to do is be aware of it and look at it. 4:23 Right. Look for it. 4:25 And I think a lot 4:26 of the best practitioners out there are the ones that have had to either 4:30 recover themselves or recover their child or someone who they're very, 4:34 very close to because you learn it from such a different angle. 4:40 Right? 4:40 And you just understand so much more about it and the nuances 4:44 and the and the every day. 4:46 And so it makes you so much better able to troubleshoot 4:50 all of the various things that our patients struggle with as well. 4:54 Absolutely. As well as our parents. 4:56 Because as a pediatrician, you know, for me, it's always about the family unit. 5:01 And as somebody that's been through it, I also recognize the PTSD 5:06 that this disease can bring to families. 5:09 And it's important for for moms and dads 5:14 to recognize that, especially when we talk about the pots 5:18 and disorder know me a part because that really also impacts them. 5:24 Yeah. 5:24 So and for our listeners who are wondering, okay, this is primarily 5:28 a Lyme disease podcast, why are we talking about pans 5:31 and why are we talking about Pots? 5:33 And as I'm sure most of you listening know, Lyme and other vector 5:38 borne diseases can often be the root 5:42 cause for pans, pandas and pots. 5:46 So for those of our listeners who are new to this diagnosis, 5:50 Nancy, let's start with some basic, 5:53 basic explanation of these various diagnosis. 5:57 These. 5:57 Yeah. 5:57 So Pandas is pediatric autoimmune neuropsychiatric disorder 6:02 associated with strep. 6:04 So by definition, it has to be only a strep infection that leads to that. 6:11 Pandas was developed, 6:14 by a group of 30 clinicians, researchers 6:17 led by Sue sudo in 2012 6:20 to make the disease more understandable, less controversial. 6:24 That certainly didn't happen. 6:26 But Pans was pediatric abrupt onset neuropsychiatric syndrome, 6:31 so included Lyme at the time. 6:35 It's on the white paper from 2012, and Lyme is Borrelia burgdorferi. 6:40 But we often think about all the other co-infections, 6:44 and I think both of us agree that we really should be talking 6:48 about tick borne diseases or vector borne diseases, 6:51 because there's so much else than just Barella. 6:55 But, back to pans. 6:57 It, it really was trying to encompass 7:00 these other infectious, 7:04 causes of these neuropsychiatric symptoms. 7:07 So those neuropsychiatric symptoms are OCD, a restrictive eating disorder, 7:13 anxiety, tics, handwriting deterioration, 7:17 behavioral regression,
Defining PANS, PANDAS, and POTS 7:21 attention and other school performance deterioration, 7:24 and somatic symptoms like abrupt onset of bedwetting or sleep disturbances. 7:29 And, you know, we both are now in the podcast world. 7:33 And I recently interviewed, Susan Guido on my podcast. 7:37 And in deference to her, I want to say two things about those 7:40 before I go on to pot one. 7:43 The P is pediatric. 7:46 Nobody disagrees that this can happen in teens, 7:51 young adult, and even adults, especially the 7:54 the tick borne diseases and mold which should also be in this differential 7:59 or if children were underdiagnosed 8:03 misdiagnosed, mistreated under treated 8:07 that lack of appropriate assessment and treatment in childhood can, 8:14 make a 8:15 person have those diseases later in life. 8:18 So you certainly could have them then. 8:21 And then the second is that strictly 8:23 it needs to be abrupt onset with pans or pandas. 8:28 However, we all know if the abrupt onset was very early in life, 8:31 the second or third can be much more subacute, and certainly 8:35 with tick borne diseases Borrelia, Bartonella, but Basia 8:39 and with mold, mycotoxins, diseases, it can be much more subacute or chronic. 8:45 And and the push is only to call those autoimmune encephalitis 8:50 of the basal ganglia, as opposed to pans or pandas. 8:54 So it's all the same thing. And it's a bunch of semantics. 8:57 But I think if we really want to help these diseases 9:02 to be better understood, we should appropriately define them. 9:08 And then 9:08 Pots is, postural orthostatic tachycardia syndrome. 9:12 That's sort of like when you stand up and your heart rate rises 9:15 or you feel like you're going to faint, but it's so much more than that. 9:19 It's all of dis autonomic dysregulation 9:22 of the autonomic or automatic nervous system. 9:26 So temperature control issues, you feel hot when everybody else is cold. 9:30 You feel cold when everybody else is hot. 9:33 Sweating. 9:35 Other, nausea, brain fog. 9:39 All of those can be pots or disorder pneumonia. 9:42 And what we know is that pots and autoimmune 9:46 disease are hand in hand in, at least 50% of the cases. 9:51 And so we see especially when it's chronic tick borne disease, 9:56 when it's mold, we see a lot of disorder pneumonia in these kids. 10:01 So certainly for those of us who have long waiting lists like like you and I, 10:05 by the time they get to us, there often is this dysautonomia. 10:09 Are you ready to revolutionize your approach to diagnosing and healing 10:13 complex, chronic inflammatory illnesses in both adults and children? 10:18 To Lyme Bites Symposium is your gateway to cutting edge education, 10:21 groundbreaking research, and innovative therapeutic solutions. 10:25 Join us at the 2025 Lyme Bite Symposium, November 14th 10:29 and 15 at the Fort Lauderdale Marriott Pompano Beach Resort and Spa. 10:34 Lyme Bites is the premier functional medicine conference 10:38 on complex chronic infection driven inflammatory illnesses. 10:42 This year's meeting is jam packed with leading industry experts discussing 10:46 long Covid mycotoxins, 10:48 illness pans, pandas as well as Lyme and other vector borne diseases. 10:52 This conference will arm you 10:53 with the knowledge, clinical pearls and practical solutions 10:57 that you can implement immediately into your practice Monday morning 11:01 that will literally change your patients lives 11:03 and get them on their path to true healing. 11:05 So join us at Pompano Beach or virtually from anywhere. 11:09 Register now at Lyme bites.com. 11:12 That's alchemy bites. Com. 11:17 Yeah. 11:18 So why do you think we're seeing such a rise 11:21 in these conditions among children and teens? 11:24 I think Covid has a big part of it. 11:27 For many reasons. 11:28 I think Covid as a disease, and in the way 11:32 we initially tried to treat it with, with the, 11:36 the injections that we actually may have 11:39 triggered or reactivated dormant 11:43 tick borne diseases, particularly Bartonella and Berbizier. 11:48 And, and in we know that 11:50 those diseases often wax and wane. 11:53 You know, 11:54 they cycle in and out of the deep tissue, the, the parasites, the biofilm. 11:59 And and so Covid sort of brought those more to the surface. 12:04 The same with chronic viruses, EBV, CMV, some herpes viruses, others 12:09 those were reactivated by Covid also because of the lockdowns. 12:14 There was, dysregulation of our immune systems 12:19 and our immune systems were not ready to handle.
Why these conditions are rising in children 12:23 Then when we reentered the world. 12:26 So the young children were not getting 12:29 the the development of immune tolerance that they should have during those years 12:35 we were on lockdown or that much of the world was on lockdown. 12:39 And then for a lot of kids that was like, you know, 12:41 maybe their whole life or at least half of their life. 12:45 Because really, I mean, you know, even though the lockdown was, 12:49 you know, technically, what, like six months, I mean, really 12:53 it was more like 2 to 3 years, especially with all of the incessant mask 12:58 wearing and everyone using a disgusting him out of hand 13:02 sanitizer, you know, and all of the things that negatively affect our immune system 13:07 and our microbiome. Exactly. 13:09 And we all know that we need a plethora of, of dirt, right? 13:15 Germs to, to feed those hundreds of trillions of, of, 13:21 you know, microbes, flora in our gut. 13:24 And and we were missing that. 13:26 I think the second thing is we live in more and more of a toxic world. 13:32 And our children that get this disease or autism are our canaries. 13:37 You know, I grew up in West Virginia. 13:39 We send canaries into the coal mines of the Canaries. Die. 13:42 It meant the mine was too toxic. 13:45 These children are. 13:46 And children with autism and and all of our canaries. 13:49 They're genetically more susceptible because there is a genetic predisposition. 13:55 So they're more susceptible to all the toxins 13:58 that are in our foods, in our environment, in things 14:01 that we're giving to our children that we don't even know. 14:05 And so these things break down the the barrier in the gut. 14:09 So lead to a leaky gut, gut permeability, but also the blood brain barrier 14:14 and lead to more of these neuropsychiatric symptoms. 14:18 And then the the Pots part in the disorder. 14:20 No Mia. 14:20 That's all very related to the vagus nerve, 14:25 which is related to the gut and to the adrenals, 14:28 which is related to the vagus nerve, which is related to to all this stress. 14:33 So it's all interconnected. 14:36 And and that's why we're seeing all this in my opinion. 14:39 Yeah. No, it really is. 14:40 And I think that a lot of people, even medical practitioners, don't. 14:45 It's like we we know theoretically, but like, we don't make the connection 14:48 between the microbiome and the immune system 14:52 and inflammation and the immune system and toxins and the immune system 14:57 and really, you know, or even our diet and the immune system. 15:00 But in the end, our immune system 15:03 is literally affected and, 15:07 imbalanced by everything 15:11 in our every other organ in our body, everything in our environment. 15:15 And, you know, I always kind of say, like when it comes to treating 15:19 any of these conditions or illnesses, if we forget about 15:23 restoring proper immune function, we're never really going to get anywhere. 15:27 Yeah. Yeah, exactly. 15:28 And and we're all of these children are 15:33 our canaries are our windows into what all of us are facing? 15:38 And we need to help our guts through diet, 15:42 through decreasing the stressors, whatever they are, 15:47 and through good nutraceuticals and as you and I 15:50 believe, herbals and botanicals, to treat all of this. 15:53 And it can be treated naturally, we don't need to put 15:58 tons of antibiotics in our kids for months and months on end 16:04 that are destroying their guts, while we're only killing the germs 16:08 that may be causing these problems, we need to do a more complete and and, 16:14 healthful, roadmap. 16:18 As my friend Doctor Hinchey always, always shows us, 16:22 to treat these, tick borne diseases. 16:25 So, yeah, it's funny, in the beginning, even when I, you know, learned about Lyme 16:30 and other vector borne diseases and whatnot, like, I literally was like, 16:34 you know, kill the infection. 16:36 We have to kill the infection. 16:37 Of course, I always wanted to do it with herbs. 16:39 You know, not with pharmaceuticals, but it's really I've I've started 16:43 to come around to the idea that, like, these persistent infections are actually, 16:50 a symptom. 16:51 They're a symptom of the underlying immune imbalance. 16:56 And again, we it's like we have to focus on fixing 16:59 that immune imbalance by doing all of the things. 17:03 And then the infection becomes so much easier to treat. 17:07 Absolutely. So that was like my huge moment. 17:09 But okay, so we've talked a lot about the immune system and immune 17:13 dysregulation being at the core of these conditions. 17:16 Can you walk us through 17:17 like the immune inflammatory mechanisms that you see driving patterns. 17:23 And then when you're done with that, Pots. 17:27 So the immune mechanisms that happen
Immune and inflammatory mechanisms behind symptoms 17:30 or first there's a dysregulated immune response. 17:33 So let's think about strep for example. 17:36 You get a strep throat infection or you get exposed to somebody with strep throat. 17:42 Rather than the antibodies or the proteins 17:45 within our immune system attacking the strep in the throat. 17:48 They instead in susceptible kids cross the blood 17:52 brain barrier, the broken down form played by all the toxins in our world 17:57 and by all the infections in our sinuses, etc. 18:01 cross the blood brain barrier and attack the basal ganglia. 18:05 That part of the brain that's important for tics, 18:08 anxiety, OCD, and speech. 18:12 You know, there can be speech, dis fluency, so many different things. 18:16 And that immune system attack in the brain 18:19 causes inflammation in that area of the brain. 18:22 And then that causes the symptoms, the reasons for that 18:26 are multiple one genomic or snips. 18:29 Single nucleotide polymorphisms like to tremor necrosis factor 18:34 alpha to to to 17 to 18:38 to many cytokines interleukins etc.. 18:41 So there's genetic susceptibility. 18:45 And then in addition to that, 18:47 in those genetically susceptible kids those cells are different. 18:51 There's differences in the 17 cells. 18:54 For example there's increased cytokines for example and that does several things. 19:01 One, it increases your your gut inflammation. 19:06 So that decreases your ability 19:09 to effectively absorb nutrients, etc.. 19:12 And it increases your, your brain inflammation. 19:17 And then when that happens, particularly like with the leaky gut, 19:22 you'll get symptoms, some of which are called pots like nausea 19:26 abdominal cramping things like that. 19:28 But the the autoimmune disease again not just hits the brain 19:34 but also attacks the thyroid attacks the adrenals attacks 19:39 other areas of the body, which leads to inflammation in those areas. 19:43 We have a lot of moms with thyroiditis. 19:46 We have a lot of kids with pot with pans 19:49 and pandas that have autoimmune thyroiditis. 19:53 It's not, and nothing wrong with her thyroid. 19:55 It's the inflammation there. 19:57 So that inflammation in those areas 20:00 then leads to the 20:02 the disorder Noumea and in addition, 20:07 the the immune intolerance in the gut 20:11 leads to the vagal nerve being dysregulated. 20:15 Also. 20:16 And that leads to a lot of other symptoms. 20:18 Think about all the things your vagal nerve is supposed to do. 20:21 It's supposed to rest and digest and keep us calm 20:25 and when it's dysregulated, we're anxious or frantic or, 20:29 you know, stomach's upset or hyper agitated, all of those things. 20:35 So that's how it all goes hand in hand. 20:37 Are you suffering from Lyme disease or another complex chronic illness 20:41 and aren't sure who to trust when it comes to herbal supplements? 20:44 Hi, I'm Doctor Mariah Hinchey, founder of Lyme Core Botanicals, 20:49 as a naturopathic physician specializing in complex, 20:52 chronic infection driven illnesses like Lyme disease, 20:56 I needed herbal medicine I could truly trust. 20:59 That's why I formulated Lyme core botanicals, 21:02 where our herbal tinctures are handcrafted in small batches. 21:05 Right here in Connecticut, we use the whole herb never isolates 21:09 to preserve the full spectrum of medicinal compounds. 21:13 Every single step from sourcing to extraction is done 21:17 with precision to ensure maximum purity, potency and consistency. 21:23 These are the same herbal formulas I used to heal myself 21:26 and have used for years to help my patients and family members heal too, 21:31 and now I'm making them available to practitioners and patients everywhere. 21:36 Lyme Core Botanicals herbal medicine you can trust from a doctor 21:40 who lives this work. 21:42 Learn more at Lyme Core Botanicals. 21:44 That's Ali and e c o r e.com. 21:54 Okay, 21:55 so I want you to share with our listeners 21:58 how you approach your treatment from a functional medicine lens. 22:02 So can you break down your framework for modulating inflammation, 22:06 restoring immune balance and supporting neurological healing?
Functional medicine treatment framework 22:11 Yeah. 22:11 So first I do a lot of detective work 22:14 figuring out what the underlying trigger or triggers may be. 22:19 Again, by the time a child may be seeing me, it may be multiple triggers, 22:24 but I look at the one that first started the symptoms and I want to treat that. 22:28 And if it's chronic especially, I want to think about treating it verbally. 22:33 Because of the immune modulating properties of the herbs. 22:37 Then I want to look at, 22:40 where is and how is the inflammation affecting this child. 22:45 And often want to try to find 22:47 anti-inflammatories or immune modulators that do more than one thing. 22:52 So for example, one of my favorites, turmeric, 22:55 which is the anti-anxiety anti-inflammatory anti 23:00 oxidant, I 23:02 may want to use essential fatty acids. 23:06 Again those help cell to cell communication. 23:11 May well help mitochondrial dysfunction, which is also a part of this 23:16 and definitely decrease inflammation and provide 23:20 support for immune modulation. 23:23 But it's really about 23:26 trying to find in an individual kid 23:30 the those immune modulating factors 23:34 and the biggest of which is diet. 23:37 Right. 23:38 And so looking at their diet, you know, it makes a difference if the child is 2 23:43 or 3 versus 12 or 13 as to how much you can implement the changes. 23:49 But at the very least, trying to get more protein 23:53 and less carbs, getting rid of sweets, trying to make it 23:57 as much of an anti-inflammatory diet as possible. 24:01 Removing things that a child may be sensitive to or craving. 24:06 And then also with pots, 24:08 especially the very natural interventions are first plenty of fluids, 24:13 at least an ounce per kilo per day, and often much more than that. 24:18 And I'm not talking about soda or fruity 24:22 juices or milk, you know, I'm talking about water. 24:25 Maybe flavored water, you know, things like that. 24:29 And then salt. 24:30 We do not give our kids enough salt. 24:33 We have so much taken salt out of our diet because of partially 24:38 erroneous, information we were given about heart disease, etc.. 24:43 But children need iodized salt. 24:46 They need the iodine for their thyroid. 24:48 They need the salt for so many different pathways, but 24:52 mainly to, to help these, these pots symptoms. 24:57 And then the third thing is, is actually exercise. 25:01 And usually when they have these symptoms they don't want to do that. 25:05 And and there's many reasons for that, some of which is our, our right 25:10 EMF stimulation and screen time simulation 25:14 that is addictive in and of itself and causes that horrible cascade. 25:19 But that's a whole other subject. 25:21 But they're often lethargic or fatigued, don't want to move or feel. 25:28 Every time they do, they get worse. 25:30 But the lack of exercise exacerbates the symptoms. 25:34 So I often have them start with what are called isotonic or 25:38 isometric exercises or, you know, like cables, 25:42 like clenching and releasing, clenching and releasing their, 25:46 their muscles, making it into a game, trying to figure out 25:49 if they could do some yogic moves with mom, 25:52 getting out and getting in the dirt, building a garden. 25:55 If you live in the middle of New York City, getting a garden box and doing it 25:59 just in that, working with their hands, just getting things started. 26:03 Swimming is a great way to exercise 26:08 without expending a lot of energy just getting them started at least. 26:14 So all of those are really important. 26:16 I'm sure I'm forgetting 20 others, but you'll remind me. 26:19 Well, I was going to say just being outside, you 26:21 know, breathing fresh air and being in the sunshine. Right. 26:24 Our, our sun vitamin is one of the absolute most helpful, you know. 26:29 Yeah. Yeah, yeah. 26:31 So how long does it generally. 26:34 And I know it's different for every single patient. 26:36 But how long does it typically take for you 26:41 to recover someone that has patterns? 26:45 I think that it is very individualized 26:49 in that it depends on how long they've been sick. 26:52 You know, 26:53 if they've been sick for seven years, it's not going to take me seven days. 26:57 It may take seven months. 26:59 It may take a couple of years in my own sun with Bartonella 27:03 that I had missed for at least seven years. 27:05 It took five years to treat it, you know, 27:08 and some of that had to do with inconsistency. 27:11 You know, you know, the shoemaker's kid has no shoes, 27:15 but also he was off to, to to boarding school and things like that. 27:19 So there are factors that I know happen in every family's life. 27:23 So that affects it. 27:25 Also, it affects how much disorder know me you have because with the disorder.
Recovery timelines and common misconceptions 27:30 No Mia, it's sometimes it's harder for kids 27:33 to take the herbals botanicals, nutraceuticals because of nausea. 27:38 So you have to go more slowly. 27:41 And it also depends on dye off her 27:44 eczema reactions, how many triggers they are. 27:47 But I think in general we need to think about months, not days. 27:52 Yeah. 27:52 And and and think about the marathon putting one foot in front of the other, 27:58 knowing there will be improvements but will also be back slides 28:02 but that it's really not days or weeks that it really is longer than that. 28:06 And it's also just providing the foundation, 28:11 because if you're not drinking, eating, playing 28:14 well, pooping, sleeping, nothing's going to get better. 28:18 So building the foundation of those things 28:21 first often takes a couple of months, 28:24 you know, before we're even going to start any of the other stuff. 28:27 You know, if you put a 28:28 lot of nutraceuticals in a kid that's chronically constipated, 28:32 all you're going to do is increase the die off in her reactions. 28:35 So you you've got to, to, to build up their, 28:40 their healthy lifestyle, build up their healthy guts 28:44 before you go in with the the killing and the and the 28:49 real healing. 28:51 Yeah, I couldn't agree more. So. 28:54 So what are the biggest misconceptions 28:57 that you've encountered for either of these conditions, 29:00 from whether it be the medical system or the general public or other colleagues? 29:06 So one was what we just said, that you can't just go in 29:10 and kill these germs and expect it to be all hunky dory. 29:14 You've got to do the whole picture. 29:17 Two that this is a waxing and waning disease. 29:20 The child can be just fine. 29:22 One minute and a puddle on the floor or looking autistic the next. 29:28 And we have to allow for that fluidity, 29:32 both in ourselves as parents but as teachers 29:36 and, and, and, practitioners and all of that. 29:40 We have to understand the ups and downs. 29:43 And then the, the third is that, 29:47 this, this can get better, 29:50 but that it does take time and it takes off in a village 29:55 that, that, you know, in addition to all the things I said sometimes, 29:59 you know, the addition of physical therapy, 30:02 cranio sacral therapy, osteopathic manipulation, 30:06 you know, physical movement, occupational therapy, 30:09 all of those may be really helpful for the child. 30:13 And finally, do not blame the child. 30:17 This is not their fault. They're not lazy. 30:19 They're not stupid. 30:21 They're not 30:23 all the negative words you can think of. 30:26 They are sick and they need our support, 30:29 our understanding, and our help in getting better. 30:33 So as a parent, one of the things that I was taught 30:36 very early on is even when I don't to say I get it, 30:41 you know, and, and and taking that breath and pausing because it allows 30:46 the child the benefit of being able to feel a little bit more understood, 30:53 as well as being able to 30:56 just take that pause themselves 30:58 and, and say, okay, somebody gets me and I say it to the kids in my practice 31:05 to whether I do in that moment or not, they just need to be heard. 31:09 And, you know, you've heard me say it many times. 31:12 The best instrument in my office is a tissue box. 31:14 Yeah. You know. 31:16 So yeah. 31:16 And that's so true. 31:18 Yeah. You've helped so many people recover. 31:20 What gives you the most hope right now when it comes to treating pans and pots? 31:27 I think there is more understanding. 31:30 There is more recognition of the disease, even though, 31:36 you know, it may not be done. 31:37 Well, more people are hearing it, more people 31:41 are are aware of it. 31:44 And there's research, you know, 31:46 as we know, the AARP, the American Academy of Pediatrics, 31:50 came out in December of 2024 and said it exists. Yay. 31:54 Yeah. 31:55 But they said there's nothing we can do about it. 31:57 And that was that made it even worse. 32:00 But what was very clear is they hadn't 32:04 looked at any of the studies since 2017 32:07 and since 2017 until that time, there were over 200 new studies. 32:13 So as long as we can fund the research, 32:16 we will find more and more information, more and more connections 32:21 about why this is happening and how we can better treat it. 32:26 So the research is there. 32:28 There is information about this, and you just need to find the right sources. 32:33 And there are tons of sources, you know, not just 32:35 you and I in our very busy practices, but you know, podcasts like this one, 32:41 conferences like the one you're doing in November at Lyme Bites and and others like 32:46 med maps.org and the CME online course 32:51 with psychiatry redefined that I'm doing and all of those different things 32:55 just to try to get the information in digestible 32:59 forms to as many people that are willing to listen. 33:02 And I just think there are more people willing to listen. 33:07 We just have to keep trying.
Hope, research, and finding the right practitioner 33:10 Absolutely. 33:10 You know, it's. 33:13 It's encouraging that 33:15 these diagnoses are being heard and are being, I guess, accepted. 33:21 I'll I'll use that lightly. 33:23 But, you know, it's funny, I had a parent the other day, 33:28 you know, come on, come on to the call. 33:30 It was a telemedicine. 33:31 And they were like, hey, great news. 33:33 We found out what's wrong. 33:35 My child has pots. 33:37 And it's like, wait, what? 33:39 Like, yes, that that's great that you feel better, 33:43 that you're being acknowledged because now there's an accepted diagnosis. 33:47 But it's like to me it's like that's describing a cluster of symptoms. 33:52 What are you going to do about it? 33:53 Like what's the pediatrician's plan to now treat this. 33:57 And it's like, well, there isn't a plan. 33:59 They just have pots, you know, and and it's like, well okay, but what do you do? 34:04 Like you still have to understand what is causing it because again, 34:09 I feel like and no offense to other pediatricians, but it's like 34:14 just because you can put a name on something doesn't mean that you're 34:19 now going to be able to resolve this using conventional medicine. 34:24 And so, you know, to me it's like, well, great, there's a name for a cluster 34:28 of symptoms and a pathophysiological process going in the body. 34:33 But now what do you do to resolve it? 34:35 Because this doesn't just mean now you have this for the rest of your life. 34:40 And then on the flip side, you know, with pans, it's like, okay, well, 34:45 you have this diagnosis, 34:48 or, you know, God forbid you've been diagnosed 34:51 with just depression, anxiety, OCD, you know, some other sort 34:55 of neuropsychiatric disorder, or Tourette's, you know, misdiagnosis. 35:01 But it's like, what are you going to do about it? Right. 35:03 And so that's the piece where I feel like organizations like maps, 35:08 which again, is med maps, dot org or even islands, 35:12 you know, is starting to bring in a lot more focus 35:15 on pediatric, Lyme and pediatric vector borne diseases. 35:20 And then, you know, because it's like, well, what do you do about it? 35:23 Because these things are reversible. 35:27 They're heal the right. 35:28 Like you can recover that child and bring them back to having, 35:33 you know, a pretty typical life, right? 35:36 Absolutely. 35:36 Sid always called it name it, blame it tainment medicine. 35:40 We name it something, we blame everything on it, 35:42 and then we tame it with some, you know, pharmaceutical 35:47 or other intervention that only suppresses the symptoms. 35:51 And, and, and the thing that happens with pens is, oh we have mycoplasma. 35:56 Oh we have Covid, but yeah, that's only one piece. 36:00 You know, nobody's asking about the tick borne diseases or the mold, etc.. 36:06 And those need to be asked about thought about not just where you and I live 36:12 in, you know, Lyme Central in Connecticut, but also, 36:17 throughout the world because it is ubiquitous. 36:20 It's in every state in the United States, in most countries in the world. 36:24 And and the other thing, 36:27 about that is, 36:29 is that it really is being a detective, 36:33 because so many of the tests that are done are either inaccurate, incomplete, 36:39 downright wrong, 36:41 or, you know, they're not testing for, you know, 36:45 they may test well for Borrelia, but forget about Bartonella and bibs. 36:49 Yes. So we need to to do all of that 36:53 for our kids and really be the detectives that that they need us to be. 36:57 Absolutely. 36:58 So what would you say to parents that are listening who maybe have never 37:03 heard of these disorders before and are feeling overwhelmed or lost? 37:08 Yeah. 37:09 So first of all, 37:12 do listen to this podcast, as well as mine. Mr.. 37:17 As well as yours, especially if a parent thinks there's 37:21 pans, pandas going, and Doctor Hinchey is on there also. So, 37:27 you know, demystifying pans, pandas. 37:30 There's lots of good information on it. 37:32 I have a book. 37:33 Doctor Scott Antoine has an excellent book. 37:35 Doctor Jill, Krista has a couple of excellent 37:38 books and a great one on mold called Breaking the Mold. 37:42 There are multiple different conferences, like med mad story, 37:46 like AI labs, like Lyme bites, where practitioners go to get trained. 37:51 So look at those sites for a like minded, 37:54 practitioner, you know, somebody that's speaking 37:57 there or is a fellow 38:00 in one of those organizations, 38:04 and, and trust your gut as a parent, 38:07 you know, if somebody doesn't feel like they're 38:11 listening to you, maybe you need to find somebody new. 38:14 If somebody isn't looking for all the different reasons that your child 38:19 may not be getting better, maybe it's time to to look for another practitioner. 38:24 And there are tons of them out there. 38:26 You you just need to use those organizations to help you find them. 38:31 Yeah, absolutely. 38:32 And if someone wants to work with you, how do they get Ahold of you? 38:36 Well, as of 38:37 last week, as of right now, I'm not taking new patients. 38:40 I have and over year long, maybe even two year waiting list. 38:45 So you can go to Dr. 38:47 O'Hara dot com. 38:49 And we would give you other practitioners in your area that that may be helpful. 38:54 We can also set up a mentoring consult, 38:59 that where I can help you and your practitioner, 39:02 or you can join my membership, which has, you know, is an annual 39:06 thing with lots of monthly teachings, Q&A, 39:10 videos, lectures, all kinds of stuff to learn and apply directly to your child. 39:15 But, I had to make that very difficult decision. 39:18 It may change if I can get ahead of it, but, 39:21 given the busyness right now, I'm not taking new patients. So. 39:24 So, doctor O'Hara, tell us how Lyme bites differs
Closing advice for parents and episode wrap-up 39:28 from other conferences in terms of quality or education or engagement. 39:33 Why do you like speaking at Lyme Bites so much? 39:36 Well, besides, it's led by 39:39 one of my favorite people, Doctor Maria Hinchey. 39:43 It is a wonderful conference that really helps to bring home 39:48 the practical application of a lot of the research is out there. 39:52 There are excellent speakers at Islands and many other conferences, but often 39:58 we are given the research without the practical application 40:02 of how to apply it in our practices, in our families, at home. 40:06 And so you get very high quality researchers, 40:11 without, you know, everybody, 40:14 duplicating each other. 40:17 And, very high 40:19 quality practical application to come home with. 40:23 And there are wonderful vendors, 40:26 people to connect with and, and just a very, 40:30 communal and welcoming, format for everybody. 40:34 So I'm excited to be there again. 40:36 We're excited to have you again. 40:38 Wouldn't be the same without you. 40:39 You've been there since its inception 40:42 and glad to do it and glad it's in Florida this year. 40:45 I know, me too. 40:47 Can't wait. 40:47 Thank you. 40:48 Well, thank you so much for joining us today. 40:50 Any last words of wisdom you'd like to share? 40:54 As a parent, take care of yourself too. 40:57 Putting on the oxygen mask is not just a trait phrase. 41:00 It means take a deep breath, 41:03 know you're doing the best you can today and every day. 41:06 And if you mess up, apologize to yourself, to your child, 41:11 to your spouse, to anybody you want to, and make the next step. 41:16 And we all mess up and it is a long road, but you can do it. 41:20 Your child can get better. 41:22 And, we're here for you one way or the other. 41:26 Thank you. 41:28 Excellent advice. 41:29 So for all of you listening, if you would like to learn more 41:34 and actually see Doctor O'Hara's in-depth presentation on pots and pans 41:39 from the Lyme Bite Symposium, you can go to Lyme bites.com 41:44 and sign up for each will either the virtual or in person 41:48 Lyme Bites Conference this November 14th 41:51 and 15th in Pompano Beach, Fort Lauderdale, Florida. 41:55 So thank you so much for listening to Lyme Bites. 41:58 We hope this brought you one step closer to true healing. 42:01 If it helped you, share it 42:02 with someone who needs to hear this too, because together we heal stronger. 42:07 We'll see you next time. 42:08 Thank you for tuning in to Doctor Talks. 42:10 We hope today's episode has enlightened 42:12 and inspired you on your path to optimal health. 42:15 Each day is a new opportunity to make choices that empower your well-being. 42:20 For more insights and strategies, subscribe to our podcast 42:23 and visit our website w ww di doctor Talksport.com. 42:29 Stay connected, stay healthy and join us next time on Doctor Talks. 42:34 Real talks from real doctors on the issues that matter to you most.
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