Learn The Art Of Prioritizing Your Self-Love

Melissa Sonners, DC

I do. And I think that’s what I want to bring to this. I think that people just need to hear more of that. We all need to be really real. And enough of everybody showing up on these podcasts and showing the polished, perfect version and not the other stuff that’s so much more relatable.

Mindy Pelz, DC

1,000%. I would say that the other thing that I have experienced in my friendship with you is that we both have a growth mindset; we’re both focused on how we can expand our minds and make our lives better. But the other really interesting piece that I don’t think women do enough of is what an incredible cheerleader, I can say, I feel like you are for me, and I hope I’m the same back. But I think it’s real. It’s really rare when you look at friendships to see that they have that purity to them where you just want to cheer your friend on. And when they have a win, it’s your win. I think there’s something magical about that kind of friendship. So I have to start off by thanking you because it’s just a beautiful friendship. I love, love, love being your friend.

Melissa Sonners, DC

I feel exactly the same, and I feel like you really set that tone. You’re one of the first people that I met; I sat down next to you at one of the first events we were at together. I remember you saying, I wrote this book. It hit Amazon’s bestseller list, and you can do it, too, and I’ll tell you how. And I was like, Whoa, this is different. This is amazing. You really set the tone, and I know you’ve always been about collaboration, not competition, and all the things that you’re doing for women, supporting women, it’s just time. I think it’s time. I know women have had those friendships in the past, but not on this massive scale. I’m so grateful for friendship.

Mindy Pelz, DC

Yeah, 1,000%. The other thing that I find even now what’s so fascinating about watching you is your own self-growth within being a very, very active mother. I look at that, and I want everybody. I want you to go through the ages of your kids, because I didn’t. I lost myself in both parenting and work, and I didn’t put myself through growth in that mix. I see you do that so well. One of the things I really wanted to highlight in this conversation is, How did you come to this place where you realized I wasn’t going to lose myself? In motherhood, I wasn’t going to lose myself as a doctor or as a wife. I was going to really put myself, my self-love, and my self-improvement at the center of all of these relationships. I think there’s a lot we can all learn from that.

Melissa Sonners, DC

Yes. I definitely don’t do it perfectly. I always want people to know that I’m not going to put me on a pedestal and think that I’m doing something that big. I always want to be very real. I want to show the struggles. We have a 12-year-old, a 10-year-old, two boys, and then a six-year-old girl. I love knowing people’s stories because, once you know the why behind why people are, how they are, or why they make the decisions they make, you get a little window into their lives. For me, I got Lyme disease, which was really bad, when the kids were young. It rocked my world. Help has always been my number one value, but that leveraged it in a way that nothing else has ever done for me. I realized if I wasn’t good, my family wasn’t either. It was a really hard journey to go through. I couldn’t show up for them the way that I wanted to. I struggled with my patients because of the things I had to do to be able to function, like slamming caffeine and aspirin. It was just really, really hard for about a year. I realized that being selfish is one of the most selfless things that I can do, and I thought, I’m an empath like many women. And it’s so easy for us to, like, just take care of everybody else. And all my friends need me. My kids need me. It doesn’t matter that I’m tired, need to sit on the couch, or need to recover. I want to read this book because their needs come first, and getting Lyme disease was the thing that really changed that for me. My value is health, and that makes those everyday decisions so much easier. I need this quiet moment in the morning, but my daughter wants to go outside and play. As hard as it can be to say no, sometimes I consider it nourishing oneself. Like it’s okay to say no to her and yes to me when I need that. I’m like, Oh, my.

Mindy Pelz, DC

Yes. That is huge. Because I was not that mother. I was literally the mother that would work all day and then come home and give all day, and I could feel my spirit and my body over the course of the years just getting drained. Help us understand how we can shift that mindset. And I think it does. If you don’t have kids, I think this can actually be your spouse. It can be your job, or it can be your friends. There is sort of this martyr that lives in a lot of women, which is that I’m supposed to show up and give first to everybody around me. And if I do, then I will get love back and my self-worth back. I think what you said is really powerful. Selfishness is a form of self-love. But we don’t own that. I don’t think you always came with that mindset. So outside of Lyme, like, how did you develop that Lyme set or that Lyme set? That was actually pretty good. Maybe I just answered it. It’s a line set. How did you develop that mindset, and how can we help women make that bridge? From, Oh God, you can tell I’m craving being selfish, but it scares the sh*t out of me.

Melissa Sonners, DC

I think what you touched on is every woman’s struggle, whether you have kids or you don’t. We naturally put everyone’s needs before our own. I read this quote that I really resonated with, and I stuck it near me. I’m big on, like, putting those quotes, putting those reminders, reading those books that inspire you. It said, “You know, overcommitting and showing up for others doesn’t make you a good person. It makes you frustrated”. And notice this: all these times that I was giving, giving, giving, and then how I would feel afterward. I would feel resentful and tapped out. And when I wanted to say no to certain events but I said yes, I would show up and not even show up the way I’d want to show up anyway. I think it’s a few things. It has boundaries, right? I’m getting better at establishing their boundaries. And so that’s something I encourage women to do, whether it’s journaling or, I’m big on creating space for yourself, creating quiet.

Mindy Pelz, DC

Yeah, you do that so well.

Melissa Sonners, DC

There’s so much clarity that comes from that. I mean, that’s a whole message in and of itself. But when you have that quiet space, you realize what it is that you need. You’re pissed off, you’re angry, you’re resentful. Why? Why are you feeling that? Write about it. Like do a word dump if you’re scared of someone seeing it like rip it up and throw it away because in that you’ll get the answers and those answers are what’s going to help you in those moments. Say no when you need to say no and there was a time my husband was out of town, day six, and I had like three kids over and I hit my limit. So the next day I was like, oh my gosh, I’m feeling so much anger, so much resentment. Why? And I realized I just can’t show up for people that way on day six and my husband being out of town. So that’s a boundary I don’t have over when he’s traveling, or at least not on the tail end of it. Boundaries are a big one being okay. Saying no to events to say yes to yourself. I think it’s important as well. I was sure just earlier, I use the acronym Nourish Oneself. When I say no.

Mindy Pelz, DC

Is there an internal guidance inside of you that says, Whoa, I have been giving too much? Now I’ve got to start to separate myself and put myself in a space where I can heal myself, because I will tell you twofold. One, I’ve been at conferences with you where we’re all connecting, and then you are really clear. You’re like, I need a night by myself. And it always teaches me because I’m like a measure. I’m like, Oh, here’s all the stuff, and maybe that’s the extrovert me. Like, Oh, there are all these people here; I should probably do that. And then I come home from a trip, and I’m completely exhausted. I’m curious if you have some cues on the inside. And then the second question I have is something I’ve noticed recently when I really hit burnout from book touring and traveling so much: I noticed that when I would go into an event, I would literally come out and be nauseous. I was tanked, I was nauseous, I was tired, and my brain started to go, Wait a second. This is the freeze nervous system. You are no longer in fight or flight. You have gone into a freeze in your nervous system, and you’re going to need to rehab this nervous system. But I think so many of us don’t have that internal guidance. We won’t know until it’s completely broken.

Melissa Sonners, DC

Yes. Well, we all have that internal guidance, and I think that’s where the space comes in. We all have this very clear voice inside of us that’s whispering what we actually need because we’ve quieted it for so long. We’ve quieted it with the scrolling. I’m totally guilty of this. But in that quiet moment for yourself, what is it that you do? Do you sit and actually listen, or are we scrolling through social media and emails to feel some sort of connection? There’s so much clarity in that space for what it needs. We both travel a lot; everyone else’s bandwidth is full, so we’re all chock full. We all have this different version of, like, What are the things that tip our bucket? I know for people like us who travel a lot like us, who live on the East Coast, so much of our travel is on the West Coast. So dinner is at 8 p.m. which is 11. I go back to, like, 8:39 p.m. So you know, at times I’ll make the intention and make a conscious choice to stay out. But what I was realizing as I was getting home on Monday and I couldn’t show up for my kids, I couldn’t do the things that I needed to do, and I didn’t have the choice to sleep in. Many of us don’t like that we all have jobs and stuff, but I would go into line relapses, and to me, it just wasn’t worth it.

There are some times when we’re all out here having so much fun. But I’ve become the Queen of the Irish Exits. I’m not apologizing for the fact that half those people aren’t going to be with me Monday morning when I’m not feeling great. And there are times when, like, the night just isn’t worth it. I’ll play during the day. So really, one of the things I’ve done in the last year or two is really tap into that inner guidance. Again, we all have it, especially us women, and it takes very little time. But, like, we’ll be at the conference, and then you have a minute in your hotel room before you change to go out. I’ll sit in that hotel room, and I’ll be like, What is it that I actually need and want tonight? What I actually need and want tonight is a bubble bath and to watch a movie. What a treat. I’ve gotten really clear that the people that are going to be in my inner circle are the people that aren’t going to be mad at me for the boundaries that I myself set. Some people have drifted away, but like, why are we going to fake this life that doesn’t work for us to keep people close to people that understand our boundaries and are going to show up and establish, like, the best relationships in the last year or two?

Mindy Pelz, DC

Oh, it’s so beautiful. I hope people don’t miss what you just said, because when you are taking care of yourself, you can actually be a better friend, a better mom, and a better spouse. To me, it boils down to the idea that I’m always thinking about my tomorrow’s self. I realized that the things I do today are going to affect me tomorrow. It’s literally that mode that runs through my head all day long. What do I want my tomorrow’s self to be like? That’s what I just heard, which is, Well, I have this condition, and I want to call it like I have this situation in my body with Lyme where if I overdo it, my tomorrow’s self is not going to be happy. Do you find yourself thinking through that lens a lot, where it’s like, I can’t just think of the pleasure of the moment or the responsibility of the moment, but I’ve got to also think about who I want to show up as tomorrow?

Melissa Sonners, DC

100%. It’s not even for me. It’s not even usually Lyme anymore. I’ve gotten so far past that, thankfully. But yes. Like I said, I’ve had enough deaths of people in my life early on, that the biggest gift I’ve gotten from that is the value of time. I don’t want to waste a minute and have a day where I don’t feel great. That is one of the things that bothers me the most. I want to take advantage of every single day, whatever that looks like, even if it’s just having joyful moments. And so, yes, in that moment where I’m checking in with myself, it’s like, What do I want for my tomorrow to be like? I’ll be like, If it’s a trip home, do I want to have a nice trip on the plane? Do I want to feel hungover and exhausted? And I said, No, nobody wants that. That’s horrible, right? You always start the entry, right? That day you get home from a trip, it’s reentry. You can pretty much bank on that stuff coming up. There’s nothing in the house; it’s just that there’s a lot to it. So yes, I think that’s a big thing. I think I also needed to have models for myself. So we’ve all been at an event, and I think it’s rare, but I hope it’s getting more common where people are just very forthcoming with their boundaries.

Mindy Pelz, DC

It is getting more common.

Melissa Sonners, DC

No, I’m actually having a night in. I had so much fun. I’ll see you tomorrow. Boom. And no worries.

Mindy Pelz, DC

Powerful. No, Literally watching you has inspired me to be able to set more boundaries. And what I’m noticing is that as I set more boundaries, then other women watching me start to say, Wow, that inspired me. As you know, I recently canceled a bunch of travel because I just felt like my health was going down a really bad path, and it was really hard. What I got were a lot of the words I got back, was I’m disappointed. Oh, so many people, people I love and respect, were like, I’m disappointed. I’m disappointed in this decision. And it was a really hard moment for me to be able to say, That’s okay. They can be disappointed in me. I’m not disappointed in myself. That is the most important thing: how I feel that I’m taking care of myself. Are you hearing that I’m disappointed in you? Aw, come on. Aren’t you coming out with us? Or can’t you push through this? Like, do you get that? How do you navigate that moment?

Melissa Sonners, DC

A lot of that second one was like, Come on, it’s just one night. We’re going to have so much fun, and a lot of those people who are saying those things don’t have kids that they’re going back to, and you know, they’re in on Monday. I just think about, Okay, well, if I were to wake you up on Monday at 5 a.m. When I need to get up and start my day, you wouldn’t want to do that either. You would have a boundary around that. This is just a conversation I have in my head, so I’m okay. I think when we realize that we’re the number one person that we need to stand up for, which again is, I think, a practice because we’re spending time with ourselves and we don’t know ourselves anymore,

Mindy Pelz, DC

So true. 

Melissa Sonners, DC

Everybody else is doing it, whether it’s our friends or on social media, but creating that connection with ourselves is so powerful because then you’ll stand up for yourself. You don’t? It’s difficult to disappoint other people. It’s harder to disappoint yourself.

Mindy Pelz, DC

It’s so true. But we’re disconnected from ourselves, and I really feel like that’s a big piece. So, okay, the other thing is that I love your free spirit and your willingness to think bigger than your roles. When I look at your role as a mother, your role as a doctor, and your role as a wife, what I see is that you actually have a very expanded view of each one of those roles, and you’ve put yourself and your own desires in the middle of each one of those roles so that those relationships can actually flourish. And this is what it looks like from the outside looking in that I just want everybody to know: A. You’re always reading a ton of books. I swear. I read a lot of books, and I can’t keep up with you. You’re always doing crazy activities like freediving and things like that. But the most recent one that has you, I’ve told you, just blows me away. And I absolutely love that you’ve gone back to gymnastics. And I’ve got to tell you that I think most adults would be like, Oh, that was for kids. That was the time. But you’re like, No, I loved it as a child. And it’s a way of reclaiming my spirit as an adult. So talk a little bit about that journey because it was really fun to watch you, and what I’m hoping people listening are going to see is that we get so serious as adults and we forget that childlike, playful spirit can still be ignited in us, and it’s really a great tool to use, to tap into, to be a great mom, to be a great wife, to be a great doctor. So talk a little bit about that decision.

Melissa Sonners, DC

Yes. I just want to start talking about the books first because, yes, I do read a lot. My kids are at the age where we’re traveling a lot on airplanes. I can actually bring a book. So, like when they were little, I wasn’t reading as much. It was just difficult. But I read for 10 minutes at night and a half hour in the morning, like you can blow through a book so quickly.

Mindy Pelz, DC

Blow so fast. 

Melissa Sonners, DC

Yes. And if you don’t feel like you have that time, put one of those timers on your phone or iPad to track how much screen time you’re using and how much of that is spent on social media apps like Just for Playing Time. I love books, and one of the books that I read recently was called The Artist’s Way. It’s one of the best books I’ve ever read. I encourage everyone to read it. That’s what got me back to gymnastics. I think all of us had some activity that we loved as kids. It’s usually around the ages of 5 to 11, like some passion for playing the piano or dancing. Mine was gymnastics, and it was one of these things I never even admitted to myself because I was like, It’s gone. It’s so far gone. I’m 42 years old. I can’t do gymnastics. Then one of my friends posted a video, and it was like, These people are probably in their mid-thirties doing acrobatics and gymnastics, and for whatever reason, I think it was the timing of me reading that book and seeing a person who looked like they were kind of my age, and I was like, I can do this, like I can go back. It has been, I mean, how many times have I messaged you? It’s like I literally found God in the gymnasium. I’ve never felt so good.

Mindy Pelz, DC

I love that.

Melissa Sonners, DC

It’s so passionate. It takes time away from the family. But I come home, and I’m so lit up that Jason’s like, How many times do you want to go? I’ll take care of the kids because I’m such a better version of myself, after getting back to that piece of me.

Mindy Pelz, DC

Right. Yes, and I think that’s the inspiration that I see: that you chose to go into an environment that lit you up. Again, when I look at what happens to so many women as we get older, it is that we put responsibility first, and in doing so, we lose those things that light us up. One of my favorite quotes is “Don’t think about what the world needs. Think about what lights you up, because what the world needs is more people who are lit up.” And I would say, if I could go back and redo mothering, I feel like I would really put that at the forefront of my values, like showing my kids that I can go into many environments and it can excite me. That is a form of self-love. So talk a bit about how you talk to your kids. Did you talk to your kids about why you went back to gymnastics? Do you talk about free diving? Do they see this incredible thing? I call you a free spirit, and I mean that in all the positive ways that their mother is. Do you talk about why you choose to do that so that hopefully one day they will choose to put their happiness at the forefront first?

Melissa Sonners, DC

Yes, I do. And a lot of these things, we’re talking about free diving, gymnastics; these are classes, these are activities. They do take time. Just like a lot of parents on here, women on here, and men on here, I do have a really busy schedule. I just made these things my top priority. I do talk to my kids about it, especially my daughter. I want her to see that as much as I love to cook, nourish, and take care of our family, and I like to work and create, I also have a life outside of them. I think that’s really important. And I had messaged you. I was in this gymnastics private coaching for, I think, two weeks, and there was a kids gymnastics competition at this gym. It’s the same gym my kids go to. And my coach said, I want you to compete. It was a really scary moment because that’s literally when I quit gymnastics, when I was almost two. I was scared to compete. And you told me you were like, Do it. Let these little girls see you do it. And I can’t tell you how many little girls come up to me, like I’m out and about in Miami. These little girls were staring at me. It’s happened three times, and the parents will come up and be like, Were you the girl in the gymnastics competition, like my daughter, to come say hi? As if I’m some famous whatever.

Mindy Pelz, DC

I love it all.

Melissa Sonners, DC

Literally all the kids and then me, like Big Bertha, are doing these moves. But it was so fun. I mean, really, your words helped me so much. These girls that were sitting there training me on, I don’t know what that did for them. I get that one day they’ll look back and remember, This doesn’t have to stop. When I get older and have kids, I can still come back to me. I can still do that.

Mindy Pelz, DC

Yes. That’s what I see: how true you are to yourself in the middle of a very busy lifestyle. I think if I put myself in Kaia’s position, your daughter, I’d be like, I wonder what it’s like to look at you from a little girl standpoint, looking at her mother, doing all these amazing, fun activities that light her up. I think what a lot of little girls do when they look at their mothers is see this really responsible human. And I think that’s what we think is the lens through which we like. We’re doing good work. If they see how I have given so much to them. But I’m just trying to rebrand feminism. I just feel like, as women, we really have this wrong. That it is not necessary to give yourself completely to your family and to your job. In fact, it actually models something worse for your children than if you actually show them, Hey, I’ve taken ownership over myself and my happiness. I’m pouring into me first, and then I can be an amazing mom. Do you get any kind of conversations with her? Does she have any idea?

Melissa Sonners, DC

I mean, I thought…

Mindy Pelz, DC

Is she a free spirit, too?

Melissa Sonners, DC

Yes, she’s a free spirit. She’s very smart. She’s an incredible little girl who has nothing to do with what I’ve done. But I’ve spoken to all my kids since they were very young age, almost like adults. Having very real conversations at their level, obviously. But, for all of them, I think what I do that’s really important, at least for them, is that I share the intention. They’re not just seeing me out on family dinner to go to my gymnastics class. I’m very clear. I want dinner with you guys. This is one of my favorite rituals, and I really need this time to fill my tank so that I can take care of all of you at the highest level. But that’s enough for them to face the ending. Yes, what I’m really wanting to do there is give them cues that they can do this too. I think that’s one of the biggest things I want to teach them. Take care of yourself, and do it passionately. I don’t care what you choose as a career, as long as you love it.

Mindy Pelz, DC

Yes. What would you say to the woman who’s listening to this and is resonating with what you’re saying, feeling captive within the responsibility of her life and the roles of her life? Where’s the door out? How do we start to help her create steps to discovering herself so that she can also be amazing for those around her but also being true to herself? Do you have steps that you would encourage her to take?

Melissa Sonners, DC

Yes, I think creating space is a really huge first step. Right. So create quiet time for yourself, and that might just be in your car, right? Turn off. Turn off the noise. Just nothingness, because you’ll start to talk to yourself. You’ll start to hear that inner voice and that inner whisper. You’ll start to hear what it is that you really want. And I think that’s a really important first step. And I think the other thing is that a lot of these things don’t have to take a lot of time. They don’t have to take a lot. My one friend used to tap dance when she was little, so she bought herself a pair of tap shoes on Amazon. She’s like between emails. I get up and tap dance, and she’s like, I suck at it. But you know what? It makes me so happy. So you can go far.

Mindy Pelz, DC

So fun. Such a great idea.

Melissa Sonners, DC

The other day, I bought, like, a belly dancing skirt on Amazon for $10. I went around my house in between emails. You better believe I locked that door. I locked it, and I danced and liked it. The point is, it doesn’t have to be this big, difficult thing to access. 2 minutes, 3 minutes here and there. But the key is asking yourself, What is it that you miss? What is it that you want or need, and then create it for yourself?

Mindy Pelz, DC

What does your husband think? Because the other thing I can see is that I put myself in the shoes of people who are like, This is really great for you, but my husband’s not going to appreciate me taking that much time off. My husband might laugh at me, if I start belly dancing, and Jason is more serious than you. Although he’s got a great sense of humor. How did you bring this up? Have you always been like this since the day you met him, or have you had conversations with him like, Hey, here’s where I’m going to make a stand for myself, and this is what it might look like?

Melissa Sonners, DC

Yes, I think that’s a really great question. That’s a really real challenge that a lot of women have.  I think if you don’t feel supported by your husband yet, do it in private. I’m going to be a little bit vulgar for a minute. But like one of my patients a long time ago, she was talking about how she wanted, like, new yoga pants, and she wasn’t the breadwinner in the family. She felt like she needed to ask her husband for the money. I know that’s probably a somewhat common situation. And she’s like, You know what? My husband sees that when I go to yoga, I’m happy, which equals more for him. And so he’s good.

Mindy Pelz, DC

She spoke his currency.

Melissa Sonners, DC

But like our men, they want us to be happy. They want us to thrive. And so, as much as they might giggle or push back, when you are showing up as the best version of yourself, your family can’t help but love and appreciate that it means you’re going to take better care of everyone around you. You’re going to. It’s just lighter. Like it’s one of those things that very easily builds on itself. Again, if you need to do these things in private, I think you should do them in private. There are things that I do with Jason and tell Jason, and there are things that I say, like when I was doing that belly dance, I locked the door. I made sure I was away from our cameras in our house. I was like, You are not witnessing this part. This is a secret. Find your balance. Find your rhythm, but love that the more you do these things, the more you’re going to see that, like your family, all those around you are going to sound different. You’re pretty light lately. And I like that.

Mindy Pelz, DC

Yes, it’s attractive. It is really attractive to be around people who are living their truth. It’s incredible. Talk a little bit about the “Be Inspired Mama”, podcast because you started that, what, a year ago, and what have you learned? Why did you start it, and what did you learn from it? I remember the first time you told me that you were going to start this podcast. I’m like, That’s brilliant! Moms aren’t talking about this. We need to teach moms how to become that inspired person, not to give all their power away to their family, so why did you start it, and what have you learned from interviewing people?

Melissa Sonners, DC

Yes. I started it probably about seven months ago. It was part of my journey. I feel like I’ve recently found my voice, which has been my inward personal journey, and I have a lot to say. Come to find out.

Mindy Pelz, DC

Feel I am. I have the same thing. I’m like, wow, I didn’t know I had so much to say, so I would agree. Yes.

Melissa Sonners, DC

Yes. This was my first creative outlet. It was a really big step for me to do something outside of just my relationship with Jason. We do a lot of work together, and that’s super fun, and I wanted this other platform that was just mine, and so I wanted to bring on people, like I mentioned at the beginning. I love knowing people’s stories because then you understand why they do what they do. My goal is to help the next generation. I want to do that to the moms because when moms are good, when moms are up belly dancing, doing gymnastics, taking that space for ourselves, like we take great care of our children or those around us for those who don’t have kids, I want to inspire women to get back to that. So far, I’ve done a lot of talking to other women, even men, who have had these challenges and setbacks and pushed through them. And, you know, I want to; it was like my first year to play. There are some other things I want to do. I want to change it up a little bit, but it’s been really cool to get to know people, people that have been in our circle for a while, to crack them open and like, yes, what they’ve gone through, some people’s stuff has just shocked me. You know that saying, You never know what someone’s going through now, so to speak.

Then, I think that’s been one of the biggest take-home messages for me: everyone has stuff. Everyone, no matter what kind of home or upbringing you came from, I came from a really loving family unit, and I’ve done a lot of work that could probably be called trauma work. I don’t feel like I had, my life threatened. I wasn’t sexually abused or anything like that. But like, we all have these things that are our story, and between doing the podcast and taking some time to work a little bit deeper on myself, it just makes me so appreciate people and all that is who we are, and like.

Mindy Pelz, DC

Yes. Complexity.

Melissa Sonners, DC

I have had some really unique relationships in my life in the last year. Like, I want to go deeper right away. I want to know who you tell.

Mindy Pelz, DC

Yes.Me too.  

Melissa Sonners, DC

Like here I am.

Mindy Pelz, DC

Yes. But I think there’s such power in all of us standing up as our most authentic selves. It’s really hard. I mean, you definitely get arrows. You and I have talked about this, and I see this on my platform, and yet it’s so necessary to show up as authentic as we possibly can. I will tell you, and I’m not sure if I actually told you this part of it. In this next book that I’m writing, I’ve been really thinking about what’s the most vulnerable version of myself—where is the real depth of me that I can share in this book? I was actually talking to LeAnn about this, and she was saying, Oh, I would tell you to go to the core of what is the most vulnerable thing you can say, and I would say that because it frees you. We’re talking about self-protection and taking good care of yourself. We’re talking about authenticity and being authentic to your true nature. Where does vulnerability fit into your life? It could be vulnerable with your kids, with your husband, with your friends, and with all of your podcast audience. How do you use vulnerability as a strength, not a weapon against yourself?

Melissa Sonners, DC

Yes. Oh, that’s such a good question. There is this other quote. I love quotes again, and there was this one that resonated with me. It was “Speak your truth, and your tribe will show up”.  I’m just done pretending. I’m done doing it in the way that I feel like other people want or need it, because what I’m realizing is that I never really gained true connection from that. I’d rather someone like me; I guess it’s me, and it’s meant leaning all into whatever relationships I have and being okay if there are very few, but if they’re full and connected, that means standing. For me, vulnerability means staying true to my boundaries because that’s very risky. We run the chance of disappointing people, and that can create a lack of connection, which is like so many of our deepest, darkest fears. There’s a lot of stuff on the podcast about speaking my truth and saying things that I’ve never even said to friends out loud. That’s kind of where I want to go deeper. It’s like I do want to do some more solo episodes, and not that everyone cares or wants to know about my life, but I think just to inspire other people, the things that we’re so scared to share are the things that make us so interesting.

Mindy Pelz, DC

Right? Oh, that was so well said. I was just thinking as you were talking, I’m like, if we don’t share the things that scare us, we actually now become people that are in the box, right. And in the box, I’m going to give you the highlight version of me.

Melissa Sonners, DC

Right.

Mindy Pelz, DC

In that, we don’t help anybody else because what ends up happening is that you are encouraging the other person to give the best version of you. What’s really interesting in my discussion with so many women that I’ve decided is that when women feel bad about themselves or they feel less than, they don’t lash out at the person that instigated that feeling. They lash out at themselves. Whereas I think men are like, if somebody reflects and says, Hey, dude, you f*cked up, they’re like, Well, whatever. They’re like, forget you, and they don’t turn on themselves. But as women, we turn on ourselves, and that is what I’m trying to break free of: we have to stop talking so negatively to ourselves. Do you have moments where you, like me, turn on yourself and then catch yourself? I’m like, Why am I saying this to myself? Do you have moments where you say horrible things to yourself and have to reframe them? Do you catch it, like, help us think that through for how your brain works?

Melissa Sonners, DC

Yes, I think we all do. But I think one of the biggest growth steps we can all take is becoming conscious of it rather than just letting it happen. A perfect example, when you’re doing something that requires no thought, whether it be showering, driving to work, or doing the dishes, that’s when those voices come, right? You’re replaying it. You’re thinking about your day. When you can make an unconscious thought conscious, it no longer has power over you.  There’s that book by Michael Singer, Untethered Soul.

Mindy Pelz, DC

Untethered Soul. So good.

Melissa Sonners, DC

Yes, that was for me. Because it teaches you to be an observer. Yes. Your takeoff comes out of this ego. It’s like, Whoa, I’m talking all these things about myself and literally just understanding that it’s not real. It’s not true. It’s this. It’s this ego or this voice. Brings so much power and clarity.

Mindy Pelz, DC

Yes. The idea that you shouldn’t believe everything that your brain is telling you is really powerful. But I think as women, we have so many wounds trying to keep up in this patriarchal world. Again, this is why I’m in such admiration of how you show up as a mother, because in the patriarchal world, even if you’re a working mother, it’s like you give your heart and soul and everything you have, every piece of you to your children, saving nothing left for yourself. That’s how we’ve been taught subconsciously, even when I was a kid. Now, I know I’m a little less than a decade older than you, but I used to watch Leave It to Beaver. Did you ever watch Leave It to Beaver? Editor June Cleaver was the classic amazing mom; she had everything in a row. My mom was amazing. And yet, as the modern world has more physical stress, more emotional stress, and more chemical stress, It is becoming harder and harder for women to operate in that way. So if you were talking to or giving advice to a woman who’s really drowning and trying to find herself in motherhood, she’s lost herself. What advice would you give her?

Melissa Sonners, DC

God, I know I’ve said it a few times, but I just feel like the biggest, most important thing, and it’s the simplest, but it’s not easy, is creating space. When we were talking just a minute ago about subconscious thoughts and how nasty we are to ourselves, well, what do we usually do when we hear that yucky stuff? We feel yucky, and then we distract ourselves. What is it that gives you an easy hit of feeling good? Is it looking on social media? Is it getting out of work email and feeling like you accomplished something? We’ve all done that, and it’s not working anymore.

Mindy Pelz, DC

It’s not working.

Melissa Sonners, DC

I think one of the biggest things that I want all women to do is create the space to notice these voices, these things that we’re telling ourselves, and then go deeper with them. If you can’t in the moment, promise yourself time later, like, Okay, tomorrow morning, I’m going to wake up, I’m going to have time alone, I’m going to journal, or I’m going to sit and think about that. Like, why do I talk to myself like that? Why do I say, You idiot? Why did you do that? Like, where does that come from? And just keep asking yourself why? And gets deeper and deeper. Because there’s so much clarity around that. In regards to these rules that we’re trying to perfect, I think the more that we can do that and get to the inner core of who we are, when we’re living the life that we’re here to live, we’re perfecting that role so easily. When we’re like someone else and trying to do their role. That’s when it gets messy. The more we are honest with ourselves, the easier life gets. It’s just like, Hey, I’m here. That works for you. That’s great. Here’s one for you: if we could all do that, what an incredible world this would be.

Mindy Pelz, DC

Absolutely. Okay. We have to finish up on this because I said it in the beginning. You’re an avid book reader. Give us your favorite books because you’ve got some that you have shined on me, and I’ve gone and read enough to say, Oh, thank God, I’ve got Melissa to tell me about these books, and there’s so much we can learn from a book.

Melissa Sonners, DC

I would love to. Like any event I go to, I want everyone’s 50 favorite books. 

Mindy Pelz, DC

It’d be amazing. 

Melissa Sonners, DC

There’s a book I read. It was actually an audiobook, The 50 Best Self-Help Classics. That was really good, like snippets from all these incredible books. It gave you a synopsis that’s hands-down the best. Then, in one of my favorite books I’ve ever read, I recently read the Conversations with God Trilogy, which is definitely one of the best books I’ve read in my life. I’ve read that along with The Artist’s Way. I love that. I love Michael Singer. Living Untethered.

Mindy Pelz, DC

Amazing.

Melissa Sonners, DC

A game changer for me. I’m really into self-help and they have to call it. They’ve got to change the name. It’s Literature of Possibility.

Mindy Pelz, DC

Wooh! I love that.

Melissa Sonners, DC

The life that you are here to live, and here are your books to help guide you. So if I go to Barnes and Noble, that’s the section I’m going to go to. And then just whatever speaks to me there.

Mindy Pelz, DC

I’m going to tell Reed Tracy, the CEO of Hay House, because we’ve been talking about the women’s empowerment books. That house is working to get out there. And I, too, have a little bit of a yucky feeling when I hear self-help books, but books of: now say that again. You said books of living of possibility?

Melissa Sonners, DC

Literature of possibility.

Mindy Pelz, DC

Amazing. That’s going to be my I’m actually going to walk into a bookstore and be like, do you know where your literature of possibility is? And see what they say.

Melissa Sonners, DC

Yes. And you can also say, I’m Mindy Pelz and my books are here and here and I’ll do a book signing for you.

Mindy Pelz, DC

That’s right. Yes, because my books are probably in self-help, I could be like, Hey, I don’t want this in self-help. I want this in the literature of possibility. And I have to tell you, I’m not saying this just because I’m an author, but I have such a deep appreciation for books because, as a content creator, when I put out a video or do a podcast interview there, you can’t really take back the words that you said. But when you sit down and write a book, one of my favorite ways to write is to just channel whatever comes through me for like 3 to 4 hours. And then I close the computer, and I come back to it the next day. When I come back to it the next day, I ask myself, Do I really believe this? Is this really the truth of what I want to say? So when you read my books, they literally are the core of who I am. And I think that is what we hear when we hear you talk about conversations with God. The other one you talked about that really enlightened me on was the bit about the big magic in that.

Melissa Sonners, DC

Elizabeth Gilbert the big mama, author of Eat Pray Love. That was a really, really cool one.

Mindy Pelz, DC

Amazing. And I think you’re really seeing the heart of somebody. It’s when we really see the heart of another woman that we can actually look at it like a mirror of our own reflection. When we’re on social media putting out content, it’s easy to get caught up in the, Oh wow, look at what she’s doing. She’s amazing. And we project stuff. But actually, if you really want to know somebody, read a book they’ve written, because that’s where their heart lives.

Melissa Sonners, DC

Yes, there’s that song. I always sing it, like in a little bit of writing that I have done so far. It’s a singer, and she’s like, I feel like I’m naked in front of the crowd because these words are mine out loud. And then, as a songwriter, as an author, that’s how you feel like you’re literally putting your vulnerability into this page and then putting it out into the world, having very little control, explaining the conversation. It’s different from where we’re sitting here, right? Are you for that? I applaud every author and creative person out there. I think it’s such an inspirational act to do that.

Mindy Pelz, DC

Yes. Which is why I want you to write a book because I think your heart and mind need to get on paper because I think it would be transformative. I just read a quote. So in my office, I am actually putting words up that are resonating with me. Some of them are phrases, just to decide if I’m going to include them in this new book. One of them was a statement I read from the Creative Act, which you again got to read so well. And he said, When you’re creating something, and I’ll put it in terms of readers, when you’re creating this tangible thing, what you want to do is create an energy in which the reader will see a reflection of themselves. I feel like we can say that with a comedian. We can say that with an author, and we can say that with a podcast host. The goal is that the more open we are, the more we allow others to see a reflection of themselves. And that, to me, is the true gift of being a content creator.

Melissa Sonners, DC

Yes, I think there’s something really important in that because I think a lot of people may have this desire to do these things, but they don’t. They’re waiting until they’ve perfected. But what I really want to see is the journey, because it’s so much more relatable.

Mindy Pelz, DC

Amazing. 1,000%.

Melissa Sonners, DC

Yeah. It’s Rick Rubin, right?

Mindy Pelz, DC

Rick Rubin, yes. It’s really interesting. And I actually think the world needs more creatives now. We’ve gotten way too linear; we’ve gotten way too boxy, like, This is good, this is bad. I’ve been spending a lot of time just expanding my thoughts and questioning them, like, What do I really believe about that? I’ve lived this one principle for so long, but do I really want to keep living it? With these creative books, The Artist’s Way, The Big Magic, and The Creative Act, what they’re doing is helping me break out of paradigms that I didn’t even know I had created in my own head. I think that’s the power of creation.That’s one of the reasons I love you, because I watch you do that every single day, and it’s so flipping cool. So how do people find you? Because your podcast is amazing. You’re doing some really neat things, so let us know how we find you.

Melissa Sonners, DC

Yeah, my main website that has everything, the podcast, everything on there would be beinspiredmama.com so B E inspired and then mama, MA MA dot com.

Mindy Pelz, DC

Awesome. Beautiful. Well, first I have to just say thank you for being such a sweet, dear friend to me. I just love our connection. I feel seen. I feel like I expand in your presence. And I just don’t know how I’d do life without you. So thank you for that. I really hope you take the Be Inspired Mama podcast to the highest level possible because I think women really need to hear your voice. So thank you so much for everything you’re doing.

Melissa Sonners, DC

Thank you, Mindy. I wish for all your listeners to have a friendship like we have, and I know that we’ve created it by just showing up completely real and vulnerable, and we help each other grow. We’re stretch friends. I think we all have the capability to find friendship like this. And we first have to be great.

Mindy Pelz, DC

Yes, 1,000% agree. I love you. And again, I hope everybody listening knows that you will find your inner badass—or, as I call her, your inner badass—through a conversation like this. And you just let her fly because that’s where you’re going to find happiness. So thank you, Melissa. I’m so happy you were here.

Melissa Sonners, DC

Thanks, Mindy. Thank you, everybody.