Long Haul Constellation: Immune Dysregulation, Neuroinflammation, and Microclotting

Introduction and Guest Background 0:00

- Welcome everyone. This is another episode of Long Covid and Chronic Fatigue. And today I am really looking forward to a conversation with Jaban Moore. He's a chiropractor who has been working in the space of what I call chronic complex illness. And he has spent a lot of time on many of the, what I think are underlying permissive in influences. If you will that bring us to Long Covid and you're gonna spend a bit of time today talking about one that not many people focus on, which is parasites. But to start, I love Jamie to tell us a little bit about how he got into this area because it's, it's really exciting to see young chiropractors interested in complex illness. - Yeah, So I got into this from the personal fight, right? So from My pain to purpose, I was a 25 year old healthy former collegiate all American that's going to college for chiropractic school.

Now after I got my four year degree and the bottom fell out, my body was fatigued brain fog. But you know, the symptom that really pushed me over the edge. It sent me searching was hormones were crashing and I ended up with erectile dysfunction. I went from Western Med to Eastern Med to, you know, from conventional to alternative, whatever words you want to use. I tried to search out anyone's opinion that could give me an answer. And of course in Western Med, I ended up with, you know, that a pill for that takes some Viagra.

And I'm just like, that's not what I am looking for. I'm like, I get it, but I want an answer. I'm like, I'm 25 year old healthy guy that's that lost weight from college and is the fittest of my life and this is happening to me. I went to alternative medicine and I got chiropractic and acupuncture, which did not give me the desired result of fixing the problem. I got supplements like L arginine, Well this will help to dilate your blood vessels, no solution. And I was a guy that had the opportunity to talk to hundreds of doctors because I was going to conferences every weekend trying to learn to get ready from for my career and I was just talking to people and asking questions to the speakers and so on.

And finally somebody overheard my conversation about symptoms and they're like, well, have you ever thought about Lyme disease? And I said no, I haven't. But tell me more. Like, well, it can cause weird things like, okay, tell me more. And they're like, oh, I don't really know any more about it. But you know, you could you should find somebody that knows about it. I'm like, okay, so down that rabbit hole. And anyway, I ran that race for a while and I don't want to take the whole interview here to to go

Discovering Parasites Through Chronic Illness 2:53

through. But doctor after doctor protocol after protocol looking for an answer. And finally, finally I end up at Dr. Allan Lindsey's doorstep in Wisconsin. I had to drive. I don't even remember eight hours north through literally through a snowstorm. That sound like my dad right uphill both ways but through a snowstorm and blizzard and I spent a week up there and within three weeks I started seeing progress for my symptoms decreasing. And so I got into practice after that. And Alan's like, hey, this is before virtual practices happened. You know, we're talking on the phone, I'm gonna send you some people that are in your area.

So I'm like first weekend of practice and he's like, here's these complex chronic lyme patients that are dealing with mold and lime and parasites etcetera walking in my door week one and I'm just like, okay, like this is gonna be my, my career path. You know, this is what the universe is sending me. And and from there I just spent time researching and studying and Colin island and calling other doctors. And so my first onset was personal and then it was professional and now it's my passion - And that's what makes the difference.

And I always tell people it's, you know, that used to be what medicine was passionate doctors. But unfortunately the seven minute office visit has kind of people lose their passion. So it's really hard. It's really wonderful that you're out there doing it. And so tell me more, how did you, we'll wind up, you know, the strong focus on parasites. What what led you down that area? - Well, you know, again line was my personal battle that I knew about and then I had gotten 80 90% better but then there wasn't quite 100%. And and as I continued researching, a friend of mine, Dr. Todd Watts started getting into parasites as far as a possibility for chronic illness. So he's sending me a bottle of the most boudicca. He's like try this out.

Of course. Then I poop out this long string thing that looks like a worm and I'm like okay well I don't know what that is but it's pretty convincing that there's something going on. I mean that that it wasn't normal that this herb is helping. So I continue down that path using black walnuts and wormwood that I'm using Nani Miranda and Malia and I'm starting to feel better sometimes are starting to reduce that some of my symptoms that were left. But I'm starting to see clients see significant results.

I mean going from almost almost hospitalized demonstration to women, all of a sudden demonstrations, not so bad, chronic Epstein barr virus infections or herpes or even uh shingles viruses that are getting better that people have had high titles for years and years and years from doing these parasite remedies and I'm going wait a minute. Okay. So there's there's more to this. And then as I started doing research, you know, this is one of the things I love to talk about the summit. It's like more than a million people in the United States tested positive for G. R. D. Which is a small parasite last year.

Right? So each year the C. D. C. Shows more than a million infections of a parasite. That's one in 330 the United States. And then you go out and you look at some other parasites, stronger Lloyd's, which is a nematode parasite. There's 100 million positive cases that the World Health Organization recognizes in the world. 100 million. I mean that's a really high number of people that are dealing with parasites and then we sit back and and we're told all parasites not that big a deal, you're not going to deal with that toxoplasmosis.

I mean these parasites are not that uncommon, they are around us. And what even blows my mind more than that is I started thinking about, I'm like, well if you have a cat, a dog, horse, cow, goat, sheep, whatever you have, Your vet tells you to do what twice a year, the warm, it just like we go to the dentist twice a year. They do, you d warm your animal twice a year. So then if they're in the same environment, we are right there in their touching the same ground we can touch, they're around us, they're in our house is on our beds and our pillows, who knows what with most of these animals. At least the cats and the dogs, what makes it that my body is healthier and stronger than their body.

It's probably not. And then then I started thinking about even the food they eat is way more processed for most animals than what the food is that I eat. Because I'm trying to eat organic, whole food farm to table, right? There's this process in a little nugget a lot of times for a lot of the animals that are around here, but they still have parasites. And I'm doubting that those factories are

Why Parasites Matter in Long Covid 7:26

putting parasites into those little nuggets of what they call food, right? So it's not their food and they're the same environment as us. The logic says that we would have parasites too. So that that that logic led me to, okay, parasites are a bigger deal. And then years later now I'm like, wow treating parasites has significant results for people. - And that I just want to emphasize to people how important these issues are. And the way you laid it out is that, you know, it's not that for everyone treating the parasite or treating lyme is necessary. But for many of us, these critters are the linchpin, so to speak, the thing that, that it disturbs our immune system or disrupts our immune response enough that other things come in and that's why we're talking about it today on this long.

Covid. It's because they said, you know, obvious. it's obvious you don't get long Covid just because you had Covid. So and so keep going. I just want to emphasize that to folks is that, you know, this is one many things that we have to think about, you know, when you're not getting better. - Yeah, for sure. Let's tie it in here. So, some of the things that as I spent the last several years through Covid looking at seeing with clients and understanding and even before that I brought up Epstein Barr herpes virus shingles.

All of those are viruses and ones that can be chronic in the system. Right? What you see is parasites shift the immune system more toward the side where we're not addressing viruses. So you can dive into th one versus th two and immune modulation and go really deep into the weeds. But what I want people to hear is that parasites kind of pull you away from the virus com in your body. It pulls you away from attacking a virus. It's not 100%. You never shift completely one way or the other, but it pulls you away.

So then that allows for viruses to run rampant. So, I see typewriters long before Covid with Epstein Barr going to where there are 600 then it just gave me a greater than symbol. So it's the virus is beyond the test chart for the company I'd be with like lab kora requests. So as you then address parasites with medications like Ivor Beckton, which has become a very popular medication during Covid. And as we're going through this, I'm like, okay I've done is immune modulating. But is it possible that immune that I've ever met is also treating parasites and reducing a pathogenic overgrowth of parasites and people allowing for their body then to shift back to that th one type immune response and attack viruses like Covid.

While the government may also do other things. I was like, man, that would be a really interesting study to look at if if one was ever to be done. So just putting that out there, parasites, parasites make you vulnerable to viruses. Which is why the conversation parasites must be had when we're talking about chronic infections of viruses. - Yes. Yes. Yes. And you know, and what makes it complex for us living in America is, you know, exposure to exposure to parasites probably depends, you know, what are immune response to the exposure to parasites can often depend on what age we saw them at. You know, just the same thing with the virus is when we see some things when we're very young, our immune system dances well with it and when we wait until we're older, it isn't helpful anymore.

That's an area that, you know, Have you have you seen you know how treating the parasites really changes. You know, people with Long Covid or just people with like your chronic viral people? - Oh definitely I've had clients come in that let's just say there there there anywhere from they've come in for long Covid two. They've come back to me 57 years later because they got Covid and now they have these long covid symptoms or even post vaccination symptoms and they're just like can you help me again? Right so they come back in and I've got a tiered level of of how my brains work. It's like can we just eradicate some symptoms and get you feeling better and then okay then how do we get rid of anything that's built up over time? And then of course how do we keep you there?

So when somebody comes back into my clinic it's the immediate effect of like we've got to get your mitochondria turned back on. I'm using infrared light therapy.

How Parasites Confuse the Immune System 12:04

I'm using infrared saunas. We're really focusing on bringing the mitochondria back up and getting the strength back to the body through things like D ribose. I mean just simple someone's D ribose co Q. 10 L carnitine. There's more advanced things that you can do like N. A. D. Infusions, methylene blue infusions to ozone therapies right that will really push the mitochondria but getting them kind of kicked back on. But then then after we do that initial step it's like okay well what in your body would be suppressing the function of your mitochondria that would make you vulnerable to covid and long covid because I'm gonna sit here right now and say I haven't protected myself a bit, not one bit from this situation from covid, not from the start to now. As far as avoiding people, I followed my guidelines that I was supposed to but I was out of conference as I was flying I was traveling, I was out to eat and it was because I was confident in my might encounter in my immune system. Because I do some of the things that I've mentioned and will continue to mention throughout this to train my body to be well, so if you're well, if you don't have parasites, you don't have mitochondrial dysfunction. If you have strength within your sodium potassium pumps, right, these these pieces of your body, your body is resilient to viruses. So what I saw was as as the people came back in or new people came in I had to find a starting point.

And parasites for me, oftentimes once we do that initial piece is the starting point because they can be in the people that they're in. They're not in everybody. But then the people that that they're a priority, they're larger. So many parasites, about 30% of parasites are multicellular. Which means they can be tapeworms. They can be nematodes or liver flukes where they could be anywhere from feet to to two but they can get into your bile duct, they can get in your liver. They can cause through secretion of specific endo toxins into your gut.

A lack of pooping. So you become constipated and they clog things up and when they clog you up then the waste from your body that waste from the environment that came into your body, your body's trying to clear doesn't leave. And that waste then builds up in your body becoming toxic and neurotoxic and making you more vulnerable to viruses. So I start with parasites often get the body cleared of them. Once I clear that then we look at bacterial despite aosis. We look at mold toxicities, we go into mycoplasma infection. We look at environmental toxins and heavy metals. Don't know.

We're talking about parasites today and as we go through that journey of clearing the potential causation of illness viruses on their own. Even if I don't even go address them specifically viruses on their own start to come come down because their thresholds reduce as you strengthen the body and the mitochondria throughout that process. So yes, I mean I have had absolutely tests of blood tigers of viruses or people that come in and they rate themselves as a 10. And then by the end of parasite protocols they're like I'm a three just from the parasite protocols not even addressing covid as a virus. - No, it's beautiful.

I mean what you're describing is just when you lower the load on the immune system then the body can do the healing and that is something that you know, we always have to remember. People tend to be hooked into you know what I call Band aid medicine, you know and and we all and that's fine. Just I love how you put it, you know, the first step is just to see if you can like you know kind of stop the bleeding and let the system, he'll you know, just give people a little bit of supplements or something to make it a little stronger, you know, many times they get better. But I love the way then you're going back in and going okay that's not working. What are the next levels that need to be addressed? And I you know, and it's really interesting how your you know by starting with the parasites, you again find that you remove that immune stress or immune misleading because that can you talk a little bit about how parasites can sometimes confuse the immune system. - Yeah, so there's a multitude of ways parasites have spent thousands of years becoming experts getting away from your immune system or protecting themselves from the immune system, confusing your immune system by using different type of molecular mimicry, different types of forms of their body.

So a parasite as it gets into your system, it may go in as an album. So an egg and then at some point it hatches itself or comes out of the egg as it comes out of the egg. It goes through a life cycle. This lifecycle for different organs looks very differently. So there may be a cycle where it needs food. So it's feeding and at that time it could be in your digestive tract, could be feeding off the food that you're bringing in. It could be feeding off of your tissues. Your waist depends on the type of organism after that piece. Then it's gonna go into a different form or maybe more of like a growth stage during that stage.

It may protect itself with a cyst, right? So a fat layer that wraps around itself to protect itself so that you can get or it gets away from where it was at and tries to hide out in your body. And then as it goes in that cyst form now it might go into reproductive state or it starts to produce more of or more reproductive. However the specific organism is. And then from there it releases the eggs and then it may either die or go back through its state again, go back through a life cycle again. Those eggs then go into your body.

They may come out in your poop. Which is how you test for parasites. Although I will say testing for parasites is pretty pretty limited and and very untrustworthy as far as all of them in my experience. But um that is one of the main ways that we're testing at this point is the parasite releases the eggs, the eggs go into your stool, the stool goes out and then you would catch it with a stool sample and send it off to the lab. But that is the process the life cycle. So your immune system is out looking for a parasite.

And if it's in a cyst form it's not technically harmful to you at that time, right? So it's in a cocoon, it's not out there creating a lot of toxins, It's not damaging tissue. So now it's confused your immune system and just can bypass right on by. So it's not always able to get to the parasite. Other ways that organisms can confuse your body parasites. Mycoplasma. Even bacteria have this capacity which is called molecular mimicry. And it's where it uses a piece of your tissue to shield itself almost as camouflage.

And that camouflage allows it to hide within your body. So it can keep doing its thing and confuse your body to not attack it and then it continues to cause harm, reproduce, grow and replicate and and your your immune system is still out

Parasites, Toxins, and Immune Suppression 18:58

looking for the problem eventually it will find it. But when it finds it it can also end up causing an autoimmune like reaction to your body. So if you look up pub med there's a few different research articles. One showed that nematodes upon autopsies for M. S. Patients. There was 100 out of 100 autopsy brains for M. S. Patients that had nematodes. 25% of them had borrelia which is lime. So there's some really interesting studies that have been done showing parasites causing different types of autoimmune diseases or damage to the body.

So that was the brain and M. S. Relation. But the parasites can also as they're in your digestive track when they're in there in your immune system's waging war there can be collateral damage. So there could be damage to your aunt testicle lining leading to you know the old topic leaky gut which probably used to have a whole bunch of different summits on it right leaky gut. So it can lead to that which then allows food organisms bacteria into your bloodstream which then causes even more autoimmune reactions.

So parasites can be attributed to leaky gut autoimmune brain conditions like M. S. It can be confusing to your body because it's in different forms at different times in different states of its life cycle. Those are just a few of the ways that parasites can really affect your body in negative ways. - Yeah and that you know that ability to just distract the immune system and you know I mean I think that's the dance of the microorganisms has always amazed me. But you also tie this in um to how parasites interact with toxins. Because I think that's another very interesting issue since you know, every everybody has, you know, it varies from person to person what the what the biggest weight on their immune system is whether it's toxin, parasite line mold, you know, mycotoxin. I think we're all we all come a little differently. But it's a circle, but it's always nice to hear how how interrelated parasites are to some of the basic ones, which I think it would go back to the toxin level.

So tell us a little bit about parasites and toxins. - Yeah, for sure. So parasites love the toxic material that you're bringing into your body every day as an average American or an average person living in this world. Right? So if you go and look up, you know anything that you're drinking which I'm drinking out of a stainless steel cup because I don't want to have plastic. But if you're drinking out of plastic, if you're drinking tap water, tap water is full of toxicity. Heavy metals like aluminum, arsenic, radioactive elements and parasites feed on this stuff.

They love it. They will carry up to 6 to 8 times their own body mass in those types of toxins. So then when you go and actually do a protocol for you've got to account for all that metal and where it's gonna go or that toxin where it's gonna go. But parasites are attracted to that sort of toxicity your body may even have a symbiotic relationship with parasites for this. So some of the theories and research that I've read shows that the body will bring in parasites to mop up all those chemical toxicities.

And then in the past, maybe you did that maybe 1000 years ago before we industrialized the world because you were drinking out of a stream that was a little dirty and that was gonna make your body sick. So your body allowed a parasite to mop it up. There's a symbiotic relationship and then your body kicked out that parasite because it used it for what it needed it for. But now it's every day all day we're bringing parasites in concert not toxins. And constantly so parasites have an unlimited source of food and fuel so you're never able to just release them. So then they become bigger and more pathogenic.

But this also adds because I want to tie everything back to viruses, right? This also adds back to that virus conversation because as the world becomes more toxic as as you sit in a room like mine here that's full of sheetrock mold can grow on it. Or as you drink this half water, which I already talked about what was in that or you rub lotion on your skin or shampoos in your hair. You know, I've got a beard here. So beard softener as you put those things on your body, what's in it because they've done studies and they found that there's a significant number of toxic chemicals inside of all these things, there's toxic mold on the wall and if your body is bringing those in not on purpose but it's just part of your lifestyle and that affects your electron transport chain by d polarizing the electron transport chain of certain metals or certain molds get into your mitochondria and suppress your beta oxidation of the Krebs cycle which is your energy system which I see all the time through organic acid test for mitochondrial testing the suppression from the toxins in our environment.

The mitochondria are a huge regulator of your immune system. So those toxins suppress your immune function not just for parasites because they do for parasites but also for viruses and viruses are something that can replicate all the time. Just like crazy they're replicating out of yourselves. So without that strengthen your mitochondria which is suppressed by the toxins were so vulnerable to everything. So to wrap that all up into a little bubble it's parasites love toxins were surrounded by toxins that are suppressing our immune function which allows all infections to run wild.

- Yeah the interrelated nous of all these things that we're gonna be talking about over you know during the summit is just um it's hard for you know when you're a patient sitting there going like okay what do I do? You know? But on the other hand is really important when you're the patient who's already done a few things and it's not working not to give up, you know, not to really not to feel that it's hopeless because, you know, we're different. And so, you know, if you stay started off, you know, chasing viruses, well, sit down and talk to your practitioner about,

Assessing Long Covid and Parasite Burden 25:18

you know, maybe we look differently. Maybe with me, I have to work more on the toxins or or look for parasites. And so, you know, when you're at that point because of your experience that you feel that generally it's a safe rule of thumb that if people have significant symptoms, you know, I'll let you maybe layer out what your big ones are that the parasites are there. I mean, how much do you bother to test with, you know, as you said with stool tests and things of that sort that are definitely not anywhere close to die, you know, perfectly diagnostic, but so how do you approach it?

- Yeah. So if I've got somebody coming in and Sure, I've got people that have come in 20 doctors, they've been dealing with this, just bouncing around, trying to look for help. I listen to, okay, what is it that you've done? I listen to what their symptoms are, even more than necessarily what they're stool testing says and symptoms I'm looking for is digestive upset skin rash, ng grinding your teeth, headaches. Achiness all over the body. Those are gonna be some of my more key symptoms for parasites. But then I also might look at obesity and strong abilities both really affect heart and I've seen a lot of heart palpitations, shortness of breath with parasites. So I'm looking for those sorts of things.

So I'm ruling out how they've done parasite work before. I'm looking at the other pieces that they have treated before. Maybe they've done high dose antibiotics for years. Lime, lime was and is one of my passions. Right. So I see those people coming in, you know, maybe they've done if they're coming in for covid long haulers, they've done antivirals, they've done steroids, predniSONE type things. They've done antibiotics again for the Z packs. And then they probably tried Ivor Mactan hydrochloric one.

Right? So I'm looking at all the pieces that they've done. I look at their symptoms. I run testing just your simple cbc. If you have elevated A. L. T. Or A. S. T. If you have elected dee hydrogenation that is off if your iron anemic or have elevated essentials above 5% which is a type of white blood cell. I start considering parasites. I take your blood work into to play. I take in what you've done. So your history, I look at your symptoms as an assessment. I even have a questionnaire for parasites symptoms, which is more than I named off about 50 different ones and and then I'm gonna go into okay if you've tried all the other things, let's talk about parasites, if you haven't tried anything yet, then it's more based off your history and your symptoms.

And if you're long haulers, I'll probably be starting with more of your mitochondrial support before I go into infections. Because I just want to try and make you feel a little better first, build you back up because by the time somebody gets to me, the long haulers oftentimes if I look at a hair test, their sodium potassium is low, so they're pretty weak. They might have, you know, or the static hypertension, they stand up and get dizzy or pots. They may have uh, liver enzymes that actually went low because their bodies just wore out there just fatigued as all get out. So I want to build them up first.

And then, like I said, depending upon symptoms, I may do parasites first. That's really truly something that has become a starter from you in a lot of cases. - That is, is very exciting. I like the thought process, you know. And so when you do with parasites, you pretty much start treating with basically herbal things. - I am. I have found that herbals for me have worked not only well enough, but usually more optimal because I've seen people do different types of protocols. One was a protocol called the shark men's protocol, which was a dose antibiotic or not in a box into parasitic for a couple of years.

And although I've seen people that have helped, I've seen just as many where it just wasn't enough. And I would think in my mind my logical mind sets you've done all these magic parasites probably in your problem with move on. But I then would go through some of the other pieces of their puzzle based off of the labs. And I'd come back to you know I think we might still have something here. I would do some herbals which I mentioned earlier, the black walnuts, warm woods, Nani's Malia's oregano knows.

And then I would see parasites come out, I would they send me a picture of the stool with parasites and I'm going I guess we weren't done okay. Like I'm just taking the logical step. Like I can see it, they must not have been done. So I think the herbal benefit that you get is medications are usually one chemical compound with one purpose, although they definitely have crossover. Like you know different things will cross over. Ivermectin for instance crosses over immune modulation parasites there there's some anti inflammatory that you see with it. But herbals have so many Fido nutrients mean hundreds that cross all kinds of different paths and it makes it very difficult for an organism to defend against all of those different fighter nutrients and when you combine multiple herbs it becomes even more powerful.

And also from the research that I was actually just listening to dr dr rawls, who's a lime expert, he's saying one of the most amazing things that he sees is natural herbs have such a low effect that's negative on the microbiome. In comparison to some of these stronger or you know stronger medications that just go and wipe out you know scorchers everything. So he's like not only do they not have the negative but they at times in the fight of nutrient have higher positive effect. And then you can find herbs that break down those biofilms of cyst forms for parasites that when you combine the power of so many of these tools it's just it's a phenomenal effect. - Yes. No I think that's that is a very good point that once things become chronic the drugs often are less helpful, you know not 100%. You know I've been being a great lover of the drug at the right time but I have to I have to admit I think you're absolutely right that when something has taken up residence the herbs because of the multiplicity of their effects

Herbal Parasite Protocols and Clinical Approach 31:48

are going to be more helpful and just so much you know our bodies did kind of co evolved with these things, not one and the chemicals that we make are often you know derivatives of you know their their hydrocarbons, you know they're basically petroleum derivatives, a lot of them and I just don't think our liver is not happy with those kind of things as we see over and over again. But so when, when you're treating, when you, so getting back to say a quick overview of that long covid patient, is there particular pieces of history that that send you in different directions, you know, particular symptoms or are?

- Yeah, so if somebody comes to me, my intake paperwork has a smorgasbord of the if and or buts right? Cause I usually feel like I'm the guy that gets a lot of clients that just haven't had success. So there's trauma questions. Have you had a lot of trauma in your life? And is it dealt with? And and a lot of people are like, well, I think I dealt with it, which is okay. I just I'm just looking for those questions. But a lot of trauma in life. If you look at a Kaiser study, if you had childhood adverse events, If you correlate your existence with that, then you we had an 80% increased likelihood of autoimmune disease because it's stressful to your nervous system and it's carried on. So adverse events can cause anxiety or depression, anxiety, depression and what I have seen cause stress to the mitochondria or the adrenals, depending upon the doc.

You talked to adrenal fatigue was really popular for a long time, as a, as a diagnosis. And then now there's some research saying, I don't know if that's quite the right title for it. Maybe it's mitochondrial fatigue. I think it's what some people are leaning toward. But nonetheless, the body is tired and weak. You see, like I was saying earlier, the low potassium low sodium and test, you see oftentimes low cobalt on a hair test. So b vitamin deficiencies or maybe they are m th fr they don't deal well with methyl eating their vitamins, some of those test positive, some of those traumas.

And then the other piece is with the long Covid, just where I see a lot of, you know, as every study through Covid showed you, there was a lot of comorbidities. And if you see a lot of comorbidities leading to poor health, but poor metabolic health as we think of this. And, you know, in Western medicine, being overweight or diabetic for me, poor metabolic health would be I run your test and you don't process sugar. Well, your liver's stressed out. You you might just simply have that like that weakness that I mentioned earlier. You know, you stand up and your body just gives up.

You have a lot of mental health difficulty with stress where you're just not resilient to stress. These things typically are what what I look for when I'm going, you know, you might have had mold a few years ago and you might have had these these chronic deficiencies to being able to respond by the toxins. Those people, the canary in the coal mines that I've worked with for so long are the ones that I'm like, okay, Covid might really hit you hard and we might have to look back in your past to figure out what we've got to clean out to get you help.

- That's beautiful. I mean I really like the way you're laying this out for, you know, this process of finding your way through the many factors that lead to chronic illness. And I said Long Covid is is just the newest player on the block. You know, for a long time it was you know, chronic fatigue and chronic chronic lyme and um you know, mold and as you've laid out, its occasionally one of them is the big player, but often you have to go down the line and lower the load and and including and emphasizing how important parasite star I think is really good for a lot of practitioners who only think of parasites when there's you know, you know, diarrhea or chronic constipation and like, you know, and if the guts not horrible, they automatically assume that it's not an issue.

And I think you know, your points are really well taken that we need to take it into account and treating it herbal e just has very low downsides. I think that's the other important thing that I like to, you know reinforce from what you're saying is that your approach allows you know, people don't like to hear this but it's nice and medicine to be allowed to make a few wrong turns especially with chronic illnesses. We don't have a clear road map of where we're going. And so when you have interventions that don't have big downsides but have big upsides I think that's really exciting and what you've laid out, you know especially with your you know parasite protocols is a great example of that you know taking the best and hoping it works.

You know I always tell people certainty in medicine is

Closing Thoughts and How to Reach Dr. Moore 37:18

easiest on the deathbed. You know when you're in the I. C. U. We can be certain more certain but when we're treating you when you're out there in life and just not feeling well it's about your body you know not so much about being certain about the insult so but so you know just summing up long covid chronic viral infections, chronic lyme chronic parasites you we've all of these together and you're when you're working with people and I think that's amazing work. Really nice to have it out there for the for people.

How do people get in touch with you? - Yeah so my website, instagram, Tiktok and facebook are Dr. Jaban Moore. So just look up my name and you'll find me and I've got a clinic with several docs that are here to help and be able to just give information to people so that they can get on their feet. - Now that's wonderful because, you know, as I said, we hope during this summit we're going to be presenting many different views on long covid and how to help it. And many conventional doctors who are beginning to look at this and study it, you know, from the universities and I just want people to understand that, that's a good thing, but they'll have answers for you in a year or two or five and right now it's working with doctors like you who are gonna help us move forward and get healthy and get back to life. So thank you so much.

I appreciate your time. - Yeah, thanks for having me.