Medical Freedom, Physician Rights, and the Cost of Speaking Up

And people, like I remember this pastor actually in Southern Ohio, because they called me and I did telemedicine for this. And he would have died without ivermectin, without a doubt in my mind.

He was not going to the hospital and that's why his family called and he was fine. Hi, it's Dr. Jen. Welcome back to the Healthy by Dr Jen podcast. Today we're going to be a little bit different of a subject talking about law.

We have a lawyer here, which is pretty cool. This is John Richardson. Hello. He defends physicians and healthcare professionals against medical boards all over the United States, assists physicians in creating a practice that is compliant with the law, He also defends practices against FDA inquiries and violations.

So this is really cool. He defents physician and he's a lawyer based in Chicago. We're going to talk about all kinds of different things and political things.

Welcome, welcome John. Thank you for having me. Yeah. How did you get into this type of law, defending physicians, because a lot of lawyers like to go after doctors for money and malpractice.

How did you be like, hey, I'm going to defend the good guys, right? Well, a lifetime ago I did a lotta healthcare fraud defense cases on criminally, and then people's licenses would get in trouble, into it that way, and then a mentor of mine, his name is Al Augustine, probably his firm defended, my old firm, defended more doctor's licenses across the United States over probably a 30 year period, maybe than any other law firm.

So, I was up counsel with that firm Yeah, that's good. Well, it's interesting. So you said about, you know, not only malpractice stuff, but more like fraud stuff.

And I think people don't know how much fraud goes on in medicine and especially like Medicare fraud. Right. This just kind of got out in the open with RFK Jr.

talking about all the Medicare, like millions of dollars going through. What are your thoughts on that and that coming to light? Well, I mean I don't personally deal, and I think that's important.

I love RFK. But most of my clients, although I defend all kinds of doctors, but most my client are integrative doctors. So it's a cash basis and we stay away from Medicare and Medicaid.

And Medicare, Medicaid tends to be a little bit more rigorous as far as You have to be FDA approved as far as what we do is more, and it works, clinically proven, but a lot of it is off-label and not FDA-approved.

Well, I think this is a good thing to talk about, though, because I don't think people understand that. If you go to a conventional doctor and you're using insurance, and if you are over 65 and your doing the Medicare thing, they're just clicking boxes so their clinic can get paid.

That's right. They really don't care, not that they don' care but they can't… because they have to get paid because the hospital's on their back now, hospitals are private equity firms, it's a disaster.

So they are following, because if they do something wrong, they won't get payed. I actually, I had a friend like five years ago, cause I tried to my brick and mortar practice in the insurance model, and I know the Lord put this conversation right in front of me with this doctor.

to protect me because she had been billing insurance and then the insurance was like, oh, hey, you owe us $20,000 because you weren't practicing medicine in our eyes.

This was the Insurance Company. They're like you were just giving nutrition advice and supplements and And she was devastated. She was like, I needed that money to get my kids soccer lessons and all this stuff.

So then she went cash based. I think it's important to talk about this because this is why so many actual good doctors that are integrative medicine that actually helping patients heal and get out of the sick model.

why they don't take insurance. Right. It frees them up to actually follow their heart. A lot of my clients got into this. They had either a family member or somebody close to them or a patient where they're doing everything and they were taught in medical school and it just wasn't working.

And they tend to treat symptoms as opposed to trying to get to the root cause of the problem, conventional medicine. And because of that, I think insurance and those things, it kind of ties you to a certain model.

Anything that's ever been great in medicine or any breakthrough, wasn't accepted or known of before. You have to have innovators. And if you don't have the innovator in your field, It's terrible, especially in this country.

This is a country founded upon innovators, upon Mavericks. But that's all forgotten. Our core values of the United States are forgotten nowadays. I would agree.

And we're shamed and called names, which I've been called many names for going back to biblical Protestant values that our country was founded on. You know, the Flexner Report, right?

Where that changed how medicine was practiced, where now botanicals were called snake oil. And I mean, we still see this now, that integrative physicians and practitioners are being called that we're just doing snake-oil, while our patients are getting better and don't need conventional medicine anymore.

Yeah, I still think there's a place for conventional medicine. I like the term CAM, complementary and alternative medicine, because I'd like to have the two work together.

And let's bring all the smart minds together and sit at the same table. But unfortunately, especially during COVID, politics played a role in medicine which it should never play a roll of medicine and should be what is best for the patient?

And we talked about it earlier is sometimes it's more about a business model than it is about what's best the individual, what bests for patient. So, but yeah.

Yeah, I'm glad you brought up the pandemic. What did you see while working with, you know, being legal counsel for all of these physicians? What were some stories during the, the that you had to deal with?

Honestly, it was a nightmare. Really? Yeah, It was the nightmare, a lot of people being targeted, you know, in some states like Wisconsin, they had an investigator that pretty much investigated anybody that prescribed Vivermectin to treat COVID.

Whether you did something wrong or not, if you prescribe Vvermctin and treat Covid, You are automatically investigated. And they have an Investigator whose job was to do nothing but that.

And then that's just, I mean, it was all over the country. People were prosecuted for exercising their First Amendment rights, retired doctors, a retired doctor out of Washington State, he's retired and he was just staying faxed about the vaccine and COVID and they tried to take his license away.

Really? Yeah, yeah. Yeah, so back to the ivermectin. So I ran into the problem. I was just prescribing it to regular pharmacies for a while until the pharmacist would call me and they would say, well, why are you prescribing this?

And I'm like, that's actually not your business. Like you're not seeing the patient. They have a legal obligation if you write a valid strip to fill it.

Correct. I'm like, this isn't like a cane or continuous glucose monitor where we're trying to get reimbursement from the insurance that need an ICD-10 code.

It's none of your business. They're like well, I refuse to to feel it until you tell me why. And I am like parasites. because we all have parasites. And I'm like, parasites, I am not lying.

It was so crazy. I had to tell that story to patients on why I was sending them to a compounding pharmacy. and I felt like I were in a war zone and compound pharmacies and were on the same army fighting against.

You know, the government and big pharma and COVID and all this stuff. It was crazy. And it was like therapy sessions when I would call these compounding pharmacists.

I'm like, hey, I just can't believe that like I can call this in anywhere. That the hospital I work at is saying we can prescribe ivermectin and they're practicing medicine without a license basically.

So what happened to these doctors that were getting all these complaints? We went to war. Ooh, okay. We went to war against a lot of medical boards. And we went, we had to.

I mean, they went into war, against my clients. Yeah. They did. and I've never seen anything in all the, in practicing law for over 20 years, I never see anything like this.

It was, complete fear-based thinking on the part of the state medical boards that went after my clients. As a lawyer in private practice, you don't have You have to defend whether your client did something wrong or not.

You defend their constitutional right to due process so you don't get to choose your patients based upon morals. But most of my clients, I would say, are on the right side of things, on moral side things.

and are trying to do the right things. No one went into integrative medicine the same way people go into plastic surgery or derm thinking they're going to get rich quick.

They do it because they want to help people, happy because then when I get wealthy and then they in doing so, especially during COVID, they put a target on their back.

But I will say, I feel like I'm very hopeful because we came out of that and RFK Jr. is doing a lot of good things and I think that people are starting to open their minds to looking at medicine in new and different ways and i'm excited about it.

Yeah. Yeah, absolutely. I mean, I was a black sheep during the pandemic. I was prescribing ivermectin. And Iwas following the FLCC protocol. Right. Dr.

Merrick on my podcast early on. Like, Iwas all in. Oh, the bullying, the name calling. You know, crazy. Really since me stepping into integrative medicine a decade ago, I mean, you have to have a hard shell because my colleagues were saying, oh, she's doing whatever.

I'm like, I have the same training as you plus a fellowship. Like I am in this because I know conventional medicine isn't working and you know it too.

It's for emergencies. it's not for chronic disease management. And then, yeah, the whole ivermectin thing was so crazy. Yeah, it was. Almost dystopian for me.

just like, wait, like I went to medical school, I am board certified, but this is a safe drug. I mean, we give this to breastfeeding women. Award winning drug?

Yes, this won the Nobel Prize I worked in. And what are the side, you know. Hardly any side effects. There's only a few drugs you can't take it with, so it's crazy.

We meet with medical boards and then at the end of the, it was like This is your concern, okay, it's safe. And, you know, there's many studies saying that it works, is that what is you problem?

Well, like you said, fear. Yeah, and it was just like, yeah, we're going to do it anyway, just because. It was a scary time. Yeah, the fear was, and like these pharmacists were reporting doctors.

I don't know if it was like a power struggle or what. Or if they were just kind of woke pharmacist and they are like, we're gonna bring these people down.

Everyone needs to mask up and get their shot. Like, I dunno what it is, but it's like so weird. And people, like I remember this pastor actually in Southern Ohio, because they called me and I did telemedicine for this.

And he would have died without ivermectin, without a doubt in my mind. He was not going to the hospital and that's why his family called and he was fine.

It was just an attack on so many different ways. I will say, it was such like, I mean, if you find another doctor that like prescribed ivermectin during the pandemic, you have this bond immediately, and that's how most integrative doctors are.

It's like oh wait, You're swimming upstream from all this big pharma, and you just have that connection. So what happened with all of the medical board complaints?

You said you went to war. Did you guys win, or is it still happening? We're still fighting a lot. Really? Yeah. So what states were the worst with this?

Off the top of my head, I would say Wisconsin and California. Wisconsin, that's kind of like a… Well, the FLCC, Oh, that's why. Because they went after them.

Yes, yes, so that was his hospital. Yeah, and then I think that that is why they had such an adverse reaction. And then California. It's a Midwestern community in Wisconsin.

They had people in the Capitol who just weren't very open to it. I mean, honestly, it felt a lot like in history, like the Red Scare, I think, might have felt where people were afraid to speak their mind and there would be fear being labeled this or being labelled that.

And you know, good for you, because especially in rural areas, if you can't find a doctor who does integrative medicine or wants to look at things differently, then you have to go to the big hospital.

I mean, the mom and pop family doctors are shrinking day by day. They're all falling and being employed by large corporations. And that means it's group thinking.

It's very disheartening, but I think it is important that doctors continue to branch out. Going back to fear, I've had doctors reach out to me and they're like, ''I want to do what you do, But I'm scared.'' It is always this fear.

For me, that's fearing man. and I fear God. What can mere men do to me? So it's nice that we have lawyers that are on our side to help us when they try to come after our medical license.

So another really controversial topic that people get in trouble for, and one of my friends was impacted by this, is if doctors write medical vaccine exemptions.

Can you talk about that? how hard is it because I mean they like go for the job and I and tell patients I'm like it's I can't write them because that will put a target on my back and that's ridiculous.

Yeah, I mean, and then they had a finite list of things. You can only write exemptions for this short list. And who's coming up with that, the medical boards?

This was the state of California. Oh, but what's crazy is you go to these conferences, these big organizations like AAP and everything, American Academy of Pediatrics, And they're all sponsored by the drug companies.

Yeah. So so it's you know, it' politics. A lot of these things are political. It's not even about medicine. California was the strictest and it had not fair to the doctors either because they got rid of a lot the faith based exemptions.

Yes. And so then doctors found themselves having to write medical exempts for the first time. Right. No one even gives CMEs on how to write exemptions for the vaccines.

Nobody tells you, but then they, if you do, then, they came after you. You got put on a list, like, we're gonna, this is the, let's make an example list.

Yes, yeah, and that's the fear. The fear comes, oh, If I do what's best by my patient. I could be on that list and then I can lose my livelihood and their passion, really, because there's other ways to make money.

And really being a doctor is not just anyone listening out there. If you want to money, that's probably not what you wanna get into. Go into business.

But it's hard because we've paid so much money and spent so many time and it is our passion to be a Doctor. So of course it will be fear to have that stripped.

They play on it. Yeah. I hate it to make us be like robots. But I wouldn't discourage young people from going into medicine. My son wants to be a doctor.

Oh, yay. Yeah, but I think that if you're smart, you consult a good lawyer and you have great consent forms. And you know, if have a defense and your ready, and as long as the patient knows, what they're getting into and they have true informed consent that's so important, true, informed, consent, then, you know, and you have a respectful amount of people in your field who have some clinical results where this, whatever therapy you're using, works.

Yeah. You should be good, you should good. And I'm hopeful that things are gonna change, to be honest with you. I really am, I am. That's great. Yeah.

Well, awesome. Have just loved talking to you, and I wanna do some rapid fire questions, put you on the spot. Gotta put lawyers on a spot, right? And everyone out there, yes, please be, we need more doctors, DOs, MDs.

Right. Because I'm a D. O., but anyway. Okay, what is your favorite biohack that actually works? Oh, I don't know. What do you mean by bio hack? So like sauna, cold plunging, that kind of stuff.

I would say that integrative thing that I've done that has made me feel the best is just is nutrition, changing the way I eat, I clean, and I cook my own meals.

When I went through all this, that was a lot heavier, actually I had a heart attack. I was so stressed out from defending doctors. And it was my patients, or excuse me, my clients said, you need to eat better.

Actually started practicing what my client's were preaching. That's good. So yeah, I would say nutrition is probably the biggest one. That is great. Not eating processed foods.

If you could eliminate one toxin in the world, like right now, what would it be? I don't know. medical board examiners. I'm just kidding. Right, right.

You said that. It had a list of people in my mind. They're actually very nice. linked what I was saying behind it and she's like just make it make sure they can see it better and I'm like they could see, it they just were yeah Karens but anyway right oh no I mean look you can't with a broad brush paint everybody you know one way I, mean especially during COVID it was a very scary time um but you No, I would say like big pharma executives.

That's what I consider that a toxic toxin. Yeah. I'd say that. there are certain locations that they just need to change hands. And honestly, I think that there should be an integrated physician, at least one, on every single medical board in the United States, in every, single state.

It's where you have a voice, especially because if you're going to evaluate whether I've met the standard, if my clients have met this standard of care or not, you should know what the hell you are talking about.

That's actually good, that's a great point. And a lot of the times, it's very hard for us to get into positions like that because of how outspoken we are for our patients.

So that great, and then last question, one word only that you want to leave our listeners with. Just one words. Hopeful. Be hopeful. Love it. I think that things are changing.

Through the whole pandemic, it was a scary time. when RFK was appointed, I said, boy, this is a divine intervention. This is crazy. It's like a Hollywood movie director wrote a story or something.

All these horrible things that created all this tension happening. Guess here comes Here comes the solution. It was fantastic. Well, John, thank you so much.

This was such a fun interview. Yeah, I agree. Where could everyone find you at? Because he is taking private clients. So any doctors listening out there?

Firm, like law firm, F-I-R-M, Richardson, R- I-C-H-A- R D-S-O-N dot com. Great. Thank you very much for listening.