Full Transcript Introduction and Guest Background 0:00 And people, like I remember this pastor actually in Southern Ohio, because they called me and I did telemedicine for this. 0:08 And he would have died without ivermectin, without a doubt in my mind. 0:13 He was not going to the hospital and that's why his family called and he was fine. 0:24 Hi, it's Dr. 0:25 Jen. 0:25 Welcome back to the Healthy by Dr Jen podcast. 0:29 Today we're going to be a little bit different of a subject talking about law. 0:33 We have a lawyer here, which is pretty cool. 0:36 This is John Richardson. 0:38 Hello. 0:38 He defends physicians and healthcare professionals against medical boards all over the United States, assists physicians in creating a practice that is 0:46 compliant with the law, He also defends practices against FDA inquiries and violations. 0:53 So this is really cool. 0:55 He defents physician and he's a lawyer based in Chicago. 0:58 We're going to talk about all kinds of different things and political things. 1:04 Welcome, welcome John. 1:05 Thank you for having me. 1:07 Yeah. 1:08 How did you get into this type of law, defending physicians, because a lot of lawyers like to go after doctors for money and malpractice. 1:17 How did you be like, hey, I'm going to defend the good guys, right? 1:22 Well, a lifetime ago I did a lotta healthcare fraud defense cases on criminally, and then people's licenses would get in trouble, 1:41 into it that way, and then a mentor of mine, his name is Al Augustine, probably his firm defended, my old firm, defended more doctor's licenses across 1:52 the United States over probably a 30 year period, maybe than any other law firm. 1:57 So, I was up counsel with that firm Yeah, that's good.
Insurance, Integrative Medicine, and Medical Fraud 2:00 Well, it's interesting. 2:02 So you said about, you know, not only malpractice stuff, but more like fraud stuff. 2:09 And I think people don't know how much fraud goes on in medicine and especially like Medicare fraud. 2:17 Right. 2:18 This just kind of got out in the open with RFK Jr. 2:22 talking about all the Medicare, like millions of dollars going through. 2:26 What are your thoughts on that and that coming to light? 2:30 Well, I mean I don't personally deal, and I think that's important. 2:34 I love RFK. 2:38 But most of my clients, although I defend all kinds of doctors, but most my client are integrative doctors. 2:46 So it's a cash basis and we stay away from Medicare and Medicaid. 2:51 And Medicare, Medicaid tends to be a little bit more rigorous as far as You have to be FDA approved as far as what we do is more, 3:02 and it works, clinically proven, but a lot of it is off-label and not FDA-approved. 3:10 Well, I think this is a good thing to talk about, though, because I don't think people understand that. 3:15 If you go to a conventional doctor and you're using insurance, and if you are over 65 and your doing the Medicare thing, 3:22 they're just clicking boxes so their clinic can get paid. 3:25 That's right. 3:27 They really don't care, not that they don' care but they can't... 3:31 because they have to get paid because the hospital's on their back now, hospitals are private equity firms, it's a disaster. 3:38 So they are following, because if they do something wrong, they won't get payed. 3:42 I actually, I had a friend like five years ago, cause I tried to my brick and mortar practice in the insurance model, and I know the Lord put this conversation 3:52 right in front of me with this doctor. 3:55 to protect me because she had been billing insurance and then the insurance was like, oh, hey, you owe us $20,000 because you weren't practicing medicine 4:07 in our eyes. 4:08 This was the Insurance Company. 4:09 They're like you were just giving nutrition advice and supplements and And she was devastated. 4:14 She was like, I needed that money to get my kids soccer lessons and all this stuff. 4:18 So then she went cash based. 4:20 I think it's important to talk about this because this is why so many actual good doctors that are integrative medicine that actually helping patients 4:28 heal and get out of the sick model. 4:31 why they don't take insurance. 4:32 Right. 4:33 It frees them up to actually follow their heart. 4:37 A lot of my clients got into this. 4:39 They had either a family member or somebody close to them or a patient where they're doing everything and they were taught in medical school and it just 4:47 wasn't working. 4:48 And they tend to treat symptoms as opposed to trying to get to the root cause of the problem, conventional medicine. 4:58 And because of that, I think insurance and those things, it kind of ties you to a certain model. 5:09 Anything that's ever been great in medicine or any breakthrough, wasn't accepted or known of before. 5:18 You have to have innovators. 5:20 And if you don't have the innovator in your field, It's terrible, especially in this country. 5:26 This is a country founded upon innovators, upon Mavericks. 5:31 But that's all forgotten.
COVID, Ivermectin, and Medical Board Pressure 5:34 Our core values of the United States are forgotten nowadays. 5:38 I would agree. 5:40 And we're shamed and called names, which I've been called many names for going back to biblical Protestant values that our country was founded on. 5:53 You know, the Flexner Report, right? 5:55 Where that changed how medicine was practiced, where now botanicals were called snake oil. 6:02 And I mean, we still see this now, that integrative physicians and practitioners are being called that we're just doing snake-oil, 6:11 while our patients are getting better and don't need conventional medicine anymore. 6:16 Yeah, I still think there's a place for conventional medicine. 6:19 I like the term CAM, complementary and alternative medicine, because I'd like to have the two work together. 6:28 And let's bring all the smart minds together and sit at the same table. 6:33 But unfortunately, especially during COVID, politics played a role in medicine which it should never play a roll of medicine and should be what is best 6:43 for the patient? 6:44 And we talked about it earlier is sometimes it's more about a business model than it is about what's best the individual, 6:52 what bests for patient. 6:55 So, but yeah. 6:57 Yeah, I'm glad you brought up the pandemic. 6:59 What did you see while working with, you know, being legal counsel for all of these physicians? 7:05 What were some stories during the, the that you had to deal with? 7:10 Honestly, it was a nightmare. 7:11 Really? 7:12 Yeah, It was the nightmare, a lot of people being targeted, you know, in some states like Wisconsin, they had an investigator that pretty much investigated 7:24 anybody that prescribed Vivermectin to treat COVID. 7:28 Whether you did something wrong or not, if you prescribe Vvermctin and treat Covid, You are automatically investigated. 7:35 And they have an Investigator whose job was to do nothing but that. 7:40 And then that's just, I mean, it was all over the country. 7:45 People were prosecuted for exercising their First Amendment rights, retired doctors, a retired doctor out of Washington State, 7:55 he's retired and he was just staying faxed about the vaccine and COVID and they tried to take his license away. 8:05 Really? 8:05 Yeah, yeah. 8:07 Yeah, so back to the ivermectin. 8:10 So I ran into the problem. 8:12 I was just prescribing it to regular pharmacies for a while until the pharmacist would call me and they would say, well, 8:20 why are you prescribing this? 8:21 And I'm like, that's actually not your business. 8:24 Like you're not seeing the patient. 8:25 They have a legal obligation if you write a valid strip to fill it. 8:29 Correct. 8:29 I'm like, this isn't like a cane or continuous glucose monitor where we're trying to get reimbursement from the insurance that need an ICD-10 code. 8:39 It's none of your business. 8:41 They're like well, I refuse to to feel it until you tell me why. 8:45 And I am like parasites. 8:47 because we all have parasites. 8:50 And I'm like, parasites, I am not lying. 8:52 It was so crazy. 8:53 I had to tell that story to patients on why I was sending them to a compounding pharmacy. 8:59 and I felt like I were in a war zone and compound pharmacies and were on the same army fighting against. 9:06 You know, the government and big pharma and COVID and all this stuff. 9:10 It was crazy. 9:12 And it was like therapy sessions when I would call these compounding pharmacists. 9:15 I'm like, hey, I just can't believe that like I can call this in anywhere. 9:20 That the hospital I work at is saying we can prescribe ivermectin and they're practicing medicine without a license basically. 9:29 So what happened to these doctors that were getting all these complaints? 9:35 We went to war. 9:36 Ooh, okay. 9:38 We went to war against a lot of medical boards. 9:40 And we went, we had to. 9:42 I mean, they went into war, against my clients. 9:44 Yeah. 9:45 They did. 9:45 and I've never seen anything in all the, in practicing law for over 20 years, I never see anything like this. 9:53 It was, complete fear-based thinking on the part of the state medical boards that went after my clients. 10:08 As a lawyer in private practice, you don't have You have to defend whether your client did something wrong or not. 10:21 You defend their constitutional right to due process so you don't get to choose your patients based upon morals. 10:28 But most of my clients, I would say, are on the right side of things, on moral side things. 10:35 and are trying to do the right things. 10:37 No one went into integrative medicine the same way people go into plastic surgery or derm thinking they're going to get rich quick. 10:44 They do it because they want to help people, happy because then when I get wealthy and then they in doing so, especially during COVID, 10:50 they put a target on their back. 10:53 But I will say, I feel like I'm very hopeful because we came out of that and RFK Jr. 11:00 is doing a lot of good things and I think that people are starting to open their minds to looking at medicine in new and different ways and i'm excited 11:11 about it. 11:12 Yeah. 11:13 Yeah, absolutely. 11:14 I mean, I was a black sheep during the pandemic.I was prescribing ivermectin. 11:18 And Iwas following the FLCC protocol. 11:22 Right. 11:22 Dr. 11:22 Merrick on my podcast early on. 11:24 Like,Iwas all in. 11:27 Oh, the bullying,the name calling. 11:30 You know, crazy. 11:33 Really since me stepping into integrative medicine a decade ago, I mean, you have to have a hard shell because my colleagues were saying, 11:45 oh, she's doing whatever. 11:46 I'm like, I have the same training as you plus a fellowship. 11:49 Like I am in this because I know conventional medicine isn't working and you know it too. 11:54 It's for emergencies. 11:55 it's not for chronic disease management. 11:58 And then, yeah, the whole ivermectin thing was so crazy. 12:01 Yeah, it was. 12:02 Almost dystopian for me. 12:05 just like, wait, like I went to medical school, I am board certified, but this is a safe drug. 12:13 I mean, we give this to breastfeeding women. 12:15 Award winning drug? 12:15 Yes, this won the Nobel Prize I worked in. 12:20 And what are the side, you know. 12:22 Hardly any side effects. 12:22 There's only a few drugs you can't take it with, so it's crazy. 12:26 We meet with medical boards and then at the end of the, it was like This is your concern, okay, it's safe. 12:36 And, you know, there's many studies saying that it works, is that what is you problem?
Vaccine Exemptions and Protecting Physicians 12:43 Well, like you said, fear. 12:45 Yeah, and it was just like, yeah, we're going to do it anyway, just because. 12:50 It was a scary time. 12:54 Yeah, the fear was, and like these pharmacists were reporting doctors. 12:58 I don't know if it was like a power struggle or what. 13:01 Or if they were just kind of woke pharmacist and they are like, we're gonna bring these people down. 13:05 Everyone needs to mask up and get their shot. 13:07 Like, I dunno what it is, but it's like so weird. 13:11 And people, like I remember this pastor actually in Southern Ohio, because they called me and I did telemedicine for this. 13:20 And he would have died without ivermectin, without a doubt in my mind. 13:25 He was not going to the hospital and that's why his family called and he was fine. 13:31 It was just an attack on so many different ways. 13:34 I will say, it was such like, I mean, if you find another doctor that like prescribed ivermectin during the pandemic, you have this bond immediately, 13:46 and that's how most integrative doctors are. 13:49 It's like oh wait, You're swimming upstream from all this big pharma, and you just have that connection. 13:59 So what happened with all of the medical board complaints? 14:03 You said you went to war. 14:04 Did you guys win, or is it still happening? 14:07 We're still fighting a lot. 14:08 Really? 14:09 Yeah. 14:10 So what states were the worst with this? 14:19 Off the top of my head, I would say Wisconsin and California. 14:22 Wisconsin, that's kind of like a... 14:24 Well, the FLCC, Oh, that's why. 14:30 Because they went after them. 14:32 Yes, yes, so that was his hospital. 14:34 Yeah, and then I think that that is why they had such an adverse reaction. 14:40 And then California. 14:40 It's a Midwestern community in Wisconsin. 14:49 They had people in the Capitol who just weren't very open to it. 14:55 I mean, honestly, it felt a lot like in history, like the Red Scare, I think, might have felt where people were afraid to speak their mind and there would 15:04 be fear being labeled this or being labelled that. 15:09 And you know, good for you, because especially in rural areas, if you can't find a doctor who does integrative medicine or wants to look at things differently, 15:21 then you have to go to the big hospital. 15:23 I mean, the mom and pop family doctors are shrinking day by day. 15:27 They're all falling and being employed by large corporations. 15:32 And that means it's group thinking. 15:35 It's very disheartening, but I think it is important that doctors continue to branch out. 15:45 Going back to fear, I've had doctors reach out to me and they're like, ''I want to do what you do, But I'm scared.'' It is always this fear. 15:52 For me, that's fearing man. 15:55 and I fear God. 15:57 What can mere men do to me? 16:00 So it's nice that we have lawyers that are on our side to help us when they try to come after our medical license. 16:07 So another really controversial topic that people get in trouble for, and one of my friends was impacted by this, is if doctors write medical vaccine exemptions. 16:19 Can you talk about that? 16:22 how hard is it because I mean they like go for the job and I and tell patients I'm like it's I can't write them because that will put a target on my back 16:31 and that's ridiculous. 16:32 Yeah, I mean, and then they had a finite list of things. 16:37 You can only write exemptions for this short list. 16:41 And who's coming up with that, the medical boards? 16:45 This was the state of California. 16:47 Oh, but what's crazy is you go to these conferences, these big organizations like AAP and everything, American Academy of Pediatrics, 16:56 And they're all sponsored by the drug companies. 16:59 Yeah. 16:59 So so it's you know, it' politics. 17:03 A lot of these things are political. 17:05 It's not even about medicine. 17:07 California was the strictest and it had not fair to the doctors either because they got rid of a lot the faith based exemptions. 17:16 Yes. 17:17 And so then doctors found themselves having to write medical exempts for the first time. 17:22 Right. 17:22 No one even gives CMEs on how to write exemptions for the vaccines. 17:26 Nobody tells you, but then they, if you do, then, they came after you. 17:29 You got put on a list, like, we're gonna, this is the, let's make an example list. 17:34 Yes, yeah, and that's the fear. 17:36 The fear comes, oh, If I do what's best by my patient. 17:40 I could be on that list and then I can lose my livelihood and their passion, really, because there's other ways to make money. 17:46 And really being a doctor is not just anyone listening out there. 17:50 If you want to money, that's probably not what you wanna get into. 17:55 Go into business. 17:56 But it's hard because we've paid so much money and spent so many time and it is our passion to be a Doctor. 18:04 So of course it will be fear to have that stripped. 18:07 They play on it. 18:08 Yeah. 18:08 I hate it to make us be like robots. 18:11 But I wouldn't discourage young people from going into medicine. 18:15 My son wants to be a doctor. 18:16 Oh, yay. 18:17 Yeah, but I think that if you're smart, you consult a good lawyer and you have great consent forms. 18:23 And you know, if have a defense and your ready, and as long as the patient knows, what they're getting into and they have true informed consent that's 18:36 so important, true, informed, consent, then, you know, and you have a respectful amount of people in your field who have some clinical results where this, 18:45 whatever therapy you're using, works. 18:48 Yeah. 18:49 You should be good, you should good. 18:52 And I'm hopeful that things are gonna change, to be honest with you. 18:59 I really am, I am. 19:01 That's great. 19:02 Yeah. 19:02 Well, awesome. 19:03 Have just loved talking to you, and I wanna do some rapid fire questions, put you on the spot. 19:09 Gotta put lawyers on a spot, right? 19:11 And everyone out there, yes, please be, we need more doctors, DOs, MDs. 19:14 Right. 19:17 Because I'm a D.O., but anyway. 19:19 Okay, what is your favorite biohack that actually works? 19:24 Oh, I don't know. 19:26 What do you mean by bio hack?
Rapid Fire Questions and Closing Thoughts 19:28 So like sauna, cold plunging, that kind of stuff. 19:35 I would say that integrative thing that I've done that has made me feel the best is just is nutrition, changing the way I eat, 19:48 I clean, and I cook my own meals. 19:54 When I went through all this, that was a lot heavier, actually I had a heart attack. 19:58 I was so stressed out from defending doctors. 20:01 And it was my patients, or excuse me, my clients said, you need to eat better. 20:09 Actually started practicing what my client's were preaching. 20:13 That's good. 20:15 So yeah, I would say nutrition is probably the biggest one. 20:18 That is great. 20:19 Not eating processed foods. 20:22 If you could eliminate one toxin in the world, like right now, what would it be? 20:27 I don't know. 20:38 medical board examiners. 20:40 I'm just kidding. 20:41 Right, right. 20:42 You said that. 20:43 It had a list of people in my mind. 20:46 They're actually very nice. 20:57 linked what I was saying behind it and she's like just make it make sure they can see it better and I'm like they could see, 21:02 it they just were yeah Karens but anyway right oh no I mean look you can't with a broad brush paint everybody you know one way I, 21:12 mean especially during COVID it was a very scary time um but you No, I would say like big pharma executives. 21:21 That's what I consider that a toxic toxin. 21:25 Yeah. 21:25 I'd say that. 21:31 there are certain locations that they just need to change hands. 21:35 And honestly, I think that there should be an integrated physician, at least one, on every single medical board in the United States, 21:46 in every, single state. 21:48 It's where you have a voice, especially because if you're going to evaluate whether I've met the standard, if my clients have met this standard of care 21:57 or not, you should know what the hell you are talking about. 21:59 That's actually good, that's a great point. 22:01 And a lot of the times, it's very hard for us to get into positions like that because of how outspoken we are for our patients. 22:11 So that great, and then last question, one word only that you want to leave our listeners with. 22:18 Just one words. 22:21 Hopeful. 22:22 Be hopeful. 22:23 Love it. 22:25 I think that things are changing. 22:32 Through the whole pandemic, it was a scary time. 22:38 when RFK was appointed, I said, boy, this is a divine intervention. 22:47 This is crazy. 22:49 It's like a Hollywood movie director wrote a story or something. 22:54 All these horrible things that created all this tension happening. 22:58 Guess here comes Here comes the solution. 23:02 It was fantastic. 23:04 Well, John, thank you so much. 23:07 This was such a fun interview. 23:09 Yeah, I agree. 23:10 Where could everyone find you at? 23:11 Because he is taking private clients. 23:14 So any doctors listening out there? 23:16 Firm, like law firm, F-I-R-M, Richardson, R- I-C-H-A- R D-S-O-N dot com. 23:21 Great. 23:22 Thank you very much for listening.
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