Mold’s Hidden Impact: The Gut, Liver, And Gallbladder Connection

Introduction to Mold and Detox 0:00

Welcome to Mold, Mycotoxin, and Chronic Illness Summit. I'm your host, Dr. Ann Shippy, and next,we get to speak with Sinclair Kennally She is a certified clinical nutritionist and she's the co-founder of Detox Rejuvenation. I'm so excited to share her information with you as she is such an expert in the important parts of detoxification to really help you heal. Thank you so much for joining me. I know you got a lot on your plate right now. Oh, I'm thrilled to be here. You know that. I love you. I love this topic.

I love this audience. This is just such a joy and a passion for me. I'm having this little debate whether we start out with how you got to be an expert in detoxifying or whether we start out with what's going on now. And I think I kind of want to start with what's going on now. So you live on the West Coast and you just got hit by hurricane? Mm hmm. I want to. Talk about your you've been totally through the mold issue. You've recovered and now you are dealing with water damage. So what's going through your mind?

How are you approaching this? Yeah. So there's, you know, a lot. This is probably the surface making me nervous, hearing about it. Honestly, we're going to be okay. Yeah, well, what I love is you're being proactive. Yeah. When you know what to do, it's not as scary, you know? And this is. I realized our fifth house in my lifetime that I know for sure where mold has been a contributing factor. And you know that it's definitely present and it's absolutely affecting our health. So Hurricane happened just days ago and it was really downgraded to a tropical storm by the time I got here.

And this is a brand new home. And it certainly reveals with that amount of water where the imperfections are, shall we say. I do like a cardiac stress test, Right? We put people on the treadmill and watch their EKG to see if there's anything going on. So same kind of thing with these heavy duty storms. If you look closely, you can find out where the defects are. Yeah, exactly. And, you know, I think one of the biggest issues about mold is actually learning to take it seriously enough. And because mold illness can come on so slowly for people, it's very difficult to recognize in yourself or even in someone else that you're living with.

And of course, one of the most painful things about mold illness is that, you know, five people can be living on the same like one whole family. Similar genes can be living in the same building and all five have different mold presentation symptoms. But because they don't look the same. I've never seen the same scenario in family members ever. It's it's always a different collection of symptoms every single time.

Current Water Damage and Mold Response 3:00

Yes. Yes. And so what they don't realize is not only the wide range of symptoms, the mold of mycotoxic illness can present, but you don't have to have all of them. You could have very, very different profiles. So I think the the biggest the most damaging thing about it is how long it takes people to take it seriously and then by then how entrenched it is in your home and also in your body. So everything becomes about, oh, my gosh, trying to find the energy and the creativity to problem solve this on the outside as well as the inside.

And how do you heal without crashing once it's already set up? Shop your immune system's already been compromised. You know, your mitochondria are, you know, fully in cell danger response mode. You're so you're under producing energy. It's compromised your liver and your bile flow. You know, it's other helpful organisms out of the way in the bodies. The microbiome is definitely shifted right Right. And molds job is to snack on our tissues to break them down, decompose things. That's what molds purpose on the planet is we'd have we'd have our problem on the planet if we didn't have them.

We need them to decompose, but we just don't want them in. Our in our bodies tend to be decomposing Other heads. The brilliantly. Beneficial things that they can do. So. All right. So you've got this 18 month old house. And so a few days we had the storm, right. And or the hurricane. And so we have molds, which is on social media. Soon we'll have molds just explode at the front door and down a seam of one wall. So you can visibly see it was that you didn't have to go looking for it. It just showed up within a few days. Yeah.

And so we we have already lives in a builder from this builder and we had something. So what happened last year that was catastrophic. It was like three. We had crazy rains last year with it was like a three storey leak of just like water pouring down because something about the way they finished the siding was incorrect. So it's a little bit of Groundhog Day. But the good news is we're jumping in, we're taking action, we're involving the builder, we're involving mold mitigation specialist. I have my independent tests because I want to back this up with documentation.

I'm you know, it's right there for everybody to see. I'm looking at it right now, and I'm really proactive. Michael and I have a lot of additional air filtration in the house right now. And we use high tech air reactors in addition to support and break down mold spores. And we're doing a ton of mitochondrial support, liver support, immune support, like we're going after it, you know, hardcore with an internal protocol just to keep us really high functioning while we solve this. And the funny thing is, I'm looking at pictures of of fog right off of the ocean and looking right now.

So I know that the conditions outside are not ideal for this to dry out. So we have to the additional steps are going to be needed. So there's a part of me that wants to just swoop in and remove it from the house until you're too let's next. So I know those are big decisions and a lot of times you don't have options. And to do that and and hope you know, you're you've figured your body out in such a way that hopefully the the cell danger response isn't going to get ramped up and your detox pathways keep zipping things out.

So I love your confidence. Well we'll see. You know, yeah, it was tough for. Me to go get a hotel room and. Yes. Yeah, but hopefully they. So I would say it makes me the fact that there's such a serious problem with one of the scenes that makes me suspect all the scenes. It's like, so part of what we're doing is doing little opening up little sections of drywall throughout the house to test. Because I think what most people don't realize is if you can see some wounds, I mean, there's a lot more, let's say cockroaches.

Okay, that's a great yeah, yeah, yeah. And I mean, we have in some ways very similar, you know, audiences and we we've supported like whole families coming through our practice for years at a time that just refuse to believe that they were living in mold because they were living in a brand new home in the oh, I. Think it's especially places where they don't have to build for snow. I think they get away with a lot more in the building process and I think, yeah, so new homes a lot of times are worse because the art of building, you know, the craftsmanship has gone away and then, you know, pretty much recommend anybody who's building a new house, get an independent inspector and they have to be inspected usually for the city.

Right? Yeah, but then get it get an extra set of eyes because they always find something major. Yeah. Yeah. It's an I think what everybody needs to remember is that this is a process and that you can't skip steps and it's external problem solving mitigation just as much as it is internal problem solving and healing, you know, and detoxing from the mold itself. And also repairing the damage that the mold has created internally. So you got a you got to have the stamina and the energy for this and the mental clarity.

And that can be sometimes the hardest thing if you this is right. Right. And so it's really one minute at a time when how hard at a time, a day at a time.

Sinclair's Mold Illness Journey 9:00

And looking beyond a day a lot of times is just overwhelming. Yes. Yes, exactly. Yeah. So I'm so happy that you're on this right away. What, One day at a time. So I thought the future a little bit about how you you have such a compelling story, how you became such an expert in this area. Yeah. I mean the short answer is the hard way. Yeah. Kinesthetic learner. That's right. You had to learn on your body rather than reading. It affects, but. Really, really the hard way. Like, yeah, I kind of feel like.

Thought you were dying. Yeah, probably were dying. Actually. Yeah, I think we were. I saw. I wrote my goodbye letters to my family many times, and for me, it was absolutely a spiritual journey of deciding whether or not to stay inside. You know, I don't mind saying that to you. And I think it's important that we, you know, gently have these deep conversations, because for one, I want people to know in the audience that it's it's okay to have those feelings. And then it makes sense, given the fact that you've been poisoned.

Your body is having a perfectly logical response to being poisoned. And with that can come very deep, very heavy feelings of depression, anxiety and losing your sense of self and even, you know, a deeper issue of disconnection to all it is, you know, the energy that is larger than you. If you consider yourself atheist, you might call that energy that's larger than you nature because we are part of nature. Or if you're deeply spiritual, you may call it the universe or the quantum. You know, or source, or if you're religious, you might call it God or, you know, whatever your favorite word for God is.

But we I think we are hardwired to be a part of something larger than ourselves. And one of the most difficult things about being poisoned with mold is that it's hard to feel those feelings of connection. And it's much easier to feel this emotional set point of anxiety and depression and, you know, so intense you really lose your sense of who you are. Yeah. So I was in mental health first, and so was Michael. And and when we met, we both thought we were, you know, living our best lives. But we had actually both struggled with health throughout childhood and all that.

It's just been normalized. We'd actually both already been exposed to more, just hadn't realized it and I had already had a car for years that the seal was broken on the your door behind me. And because I lived in Portland, Oregon, it rained a lot. And in Portland there's very few garages. So you're parking outside most of the time, wherever you are. And so you just, you know, fill up with water. And I just it was musty and I would kind of spray it with something, you know, and yeah, so I inhaled that for four years before air.

And then when we moved in together, there was definitely mold in the basement. And, you know, we were in our honeymoon period and that's when I crashed. I was helping health and wellness entrepreneurs. I was running a busy practice and I end up in the hospital what we thought was a heart attack, which as we now being tachycardic, is such a common side of mold poisoning and it's so often misunderstood. And I thought I was dying. And and I remember the hospital as being excited to to admit me. And it was weird, you know, when they were running tests and things, it was like, ooh, we've got a live one here.

And I remember that that's so strong. Like, that is a very strange response to what I am going through. Okay. And I also remember scan after scan, test after tests, then completely losing interest in me because nothing was obvious. There was no surgery to do. You know, I didn't need like, you know, something immediate and acute and I didn't make any sense to them. And so, you know, as the hours and days went by, I realized I was not going to get any help there. And I checked myself out and I thought, well, I didn't even check myself out.

I just walked out in my hospital gown, Michael, help me out the line. And I thought I was going home. Did I? So I wish I could say that there was, like, some beautiful one a ha moment where everything changed. But I think the truth is, for so many of us, that's not really the case. There are a lot of little aha moments that lead you to the next step and the next trial and error. And it took me eight years from there. And four years. Yeah. Wow. You are persistent. That's part of why I love you. Let me die.

I'm deeply, deeply loved. So I'm very lucky. Yeah, but yes, I am. Various death, right? You know, and I. You know my impression of you and from how, you know, being around you is that it seems like you're more vibrant and feel the best you have. And you. Just. You would never guessed that you'd been so sick. Yeah. I couldn't stand for more than a couple of minutes at a time. I couldn't open my hands because I had it that it was all a and then there was like, well, we was just really bad fibromyalgia.

I had to take my fingers of popsicle sticks and I held them under my pillows so that I didn't wake up like this in the morning would take me. If I did, it would take me like 8 hours to be able to unfold my hands for the day. And so I would drive to work with my elbows on the steering wheel instead of my hands. And I believe you went to work. I know, right? Well, got to do. Something. Yeah. I was too sick to to help people anymore, so I just we both were. So we had to shut down our practices. And I went into product design because it was something I could do very well.

And I would lay on my design table and move that line up, changed that color a little bit, and we would do hundreds and hundreds of SKUs that way. Oh wow, I know it. Was so your so resourceful. All right. So what do you think the most important things were in you getting? Well. You know, there's so many pieces to this. One of the pieces is understanding your total toxin burden because your body has been impacted and its ability to excrete the way it really wants to when you've been poisoned with mold.

And so there's a little bit of just like basic math with this. And don't take in more toxins every day than your body can get out, period. End of story. And that can feel daunting when you've been living an American lifestyle where we really normalized really toxic hair products. You know, I was using dry shampoo where the top ingredient was aluminum because I couldn't really wash my hair. I didn't have the energy, I didn't have the hand dexterity. So I would just kind of like half the stuff on and then kind of go like this, you know.

And so I was dumping aluminum on my brain and also petroleum. So there's there's a little bit of like common sense here, like, hey, maybe we don't poison ourselves while we're trying to fix being poisoned. And so it's just one one choice at a time, guys. Prioritize clean air, clean water, clean food and clean food looks like really, really simple. Whole foods don't buy into, like, the crazy superfood diets where they're like, Oh, we should put 70 ingredients in the steak and bowl and it's all run.

It's going to cost your body so much energy to break all that stuff down. Like, please go for for ease with digestion because mold is so good as we know. And disrupting digestion. So we got to be really practical. If your body is already on the back foot, how do we get nutrients in that are really gentle on the body? Your body can actually absorb them and that that can be highly bio individual. You know, I'm sure Dr. Ann has lots of great advice for you on that but. I am loving what you're saying like I think simple is better easy to digest.

Mostly cooked. Yes. Yeah it just. Yeah, we're not going to get beat necessarily, depending on how advanced your food sensitivities are in your reactions because mold is so good at, you know. Yes. Creating like you got, you know, increased, you know, intestinal inflammatory responses, disrupting the immune system. You could have really dysregulated relationship to food as you work your way through mold. And that is not uncommon. In fact, that's highly common. So it's down to three foods for a while, which three is not good.

It's like, okay, good, doesn't even make sense. So I don't even want anybody to get ideas about how to. Good idea. All right. One was like insults were, but I couldn't tolerate other sulfur. It's just very weird. Okay, So you just. You had all the things, probably the histamines box lips, the glue, the dairy that. Yeah, yeah. And you know, but my mast so, you know, issues did not look like what we understood textbook nasal to be you know until even recently. So I would look at Michael go oh he's the histamine guy, he's the nasal

Liver, Bile Flow, and Detox Support 18:00

guy, not me, because he would have huge skin flares if he ate the wrong thing. And like, the histamine, like overwhelm rages and like, all that stuff. And that wasn't me I just got I called them the Weepies. I got the Weepies really bad. So I know it's next. We would do like, oh, just a little bit of ozone therapy at home. And then I would just like, Oh my God, I would dump just tears about how sad the world was for the next 2 hours. I was just like, Oh, honey, buy it, and then I'll go to coffee enema.

And then I, you know, just it's so sweet and we just have to take a step at a time. So just have to finish that thought. Many people are still encouraging people with mild illness to eat the rainbow, and I absolutely hate that because there's so many irritants like dense oxalate histamines that you may temporarily need to take a conscious pause from and just really focus on very, very basic nutrition. So I think those are two two of the first steps less poison in everyday than what you can get out.

So really simplifying your lifestyle and your exposures and really clean, very simple food that may be highly bio individual to you for a time. And sometimes you do just have to start with two or three foods and then gradually add them in. You do? Yeah. Yeah. And you know, your body is brilliant. It never forgets how to heal, absolutely knows how to repair itself. So the question is, you know what is what would your body like at this stage of healing? Because we're never going to outsmart the body guys.

We want to work with it instead of trying to suppress the symptoms or override the body, like the body has its own strategies for identifying the issues and for excreting them. So we want to work with those supporting among trees. Really understand. I love how you're making this way. Because it. Really is kind of like that and it's changing. It's, you know, as we're healing, the body wants different things. So really staying in tune and not staying stuck. Okay, I really can only eat these three things.

It's like like listening, you know, I think I want to try and some blueberries today or, you know, whatever it is. And and being with the flow of of the body brilliance, of being able to heal itself. So I love how you're describing this. Yeah. I think this is like really just common sense stuff that we forget to emphasize as practitioners because I really wants to talk about like the HLA gene and like the nerve to pathways, and it's like, Well, okay, but what are you going to do about it? You know, we know everybody's super brain foggy because of the molt.

So it's just like a very, very practical thing. You know. Everything works better when you lay a solid foundation. And so I'm so pleased that you're really focusing on that, like, let's get a good foundation going here so that as we're building some of these more, you know, sciencey alternatives to layering in and they, they land better. Yeah, that's so beautifully said. I think Yeah, it's a great point. So it's like, you know, one of the things that really changed my life and my health trajectory was finally realizing how stuck my liver was because of the mold poisoning.

And and also that because my immune system had been suppressed for so long, I definitely did have a parasite issue. And I really wanted to be in denial about that because, like Michael Parasite guy, not me, you know. So those were two really important chapters for me to do it. There are really interesting collaborations between the two of you. It's a very karmic thing. Yeah, he charges in first. It's like, I think this is a problem for both of us. And I'm like, No, that sounds like a problem for you. And then he finally gets me to, you know, every, every chapter along the way gets me to do the research for myself.

And it's very true. But he's he he and I are great examples of two ends of the spectrum for mold illness. So I was extremely fragile. You could the wind could blow wrong and I would crash. You know, we had a wonderful client. She called herself a Ferrari, you know, where the wind blows wrong and she breaks down and her body, that was her metaphor for what would happen to her after a mold illness. And that was definitely me at that end of the spectrum. And Michael was more like the guy who was. Yes, very easily overloaded with like the mass or the histamine dysregulation, the head.

Crazy parasites. Oh, my God. Just stuff for the textbooks. And but at the same time, he had a really high capacity to heal. So he would learn about a new tool. And if the dose was two pills, he'd go, I wonder what this does and take the whole body in the bottle, you know? And he would just he was willing to have short term discomfort in order to get a clear signal from his body. Is this helping me or is it hurting me? Is it relevant or is it not as he just had to problem solve and get to the end of it, whereas I had to dip my toe in, otherwise the world was ending, you know?

So that's that's how we designed all of our protocols was those two ends of the spectrum and then then. Of people so people can identify where they are with in that spectrum. Yeah. And it's fine to see our students now saying like I'm worried about Michael or I. We're thinking there's no shame in it. Everybody gets to heal their own way. So. So realized you had parasites, got rid of those, knew your liver needs some needed some help and that your immune system needed support. Yeah. You know, this is the weird part about mold.

So it's so good at shutting down bile flow efficiency and shutting down or shutting down bile flow and shutting down liver efficiency. And yes, it is immune suppressive. It's highly inflammatory to the liver. So, you know, there's yes, there's the HLA TR gene which can, you know, affect 25% of the population. But really everybody has the potential for liver damage from Mycotoxins because they increase those inflammatory cytokines for sure. And you get this chronic inflammatory response and you can easily get like fibrosis necrosis, you can get cysts in the liver.

But really like the most common presentation that we see is your liver labs look fine. You know. Your liver has to be in pretty bad shape to show up on the labs that we have currently for a liver like you got to be practically, you know, in failure. Yes. Thank you for saying that. Why does nobody still know this? So there is one marker, a degree that's a little bit more sensitive. So sometimes that'll be an earlier indicator than the Alta. SD Right, Right, Yes. Q Yes, Now we have it on recording for the summit.

Good. Yes, because I'm just shocked at who doesn't know that supposedly, you know, mycotoxin experts. And it's the same thing with the kidneys. Like we've we measure kidney function, but it's it's like, you know, flying over in an airplane and trying to figure out what's going on with the leaves on the tree. Like, we don't really have great kidney function. So Staten C is a little more sensitive, but it's still pretty unstaged damage. Like we just can tell you you're, you know, failing at it. We can't tell, oh, is this really optimal?

Right? And I think it's a beautiful way to describe that. It's a great analogy. So so the problem is your your practitioner, whether they're allopathic or holistic, will look at that and go, oh, your was growing up like, that's good news. Meanwhile, you could actually be having serious compromised function in those 2000 miles of bile ducts in your liver. And your liver is a big guy like it's a beast. It is your master regenerative organ. It's the largest traditional organ. The interstitial is larger, which is throughout the body now, but that's what we classify as the organ now.

But you have 13% of your body's total blood volume going through the liver at any given time. And this is just one of like, yes, it's cleaning out your blood. And yes, it's helping to break down toxins into smaller metabolites and then reconstituting them for excretion through bile or through the kidney. But the truth is, the liver has 500 jobs in the body. It's often performing over 200 those at one time. So evening it was a busy, busy parallel worker. You know, you're not in a lot of those jobs.

Determine how much are you able to absorb of your proteins effectively and can you use them and break them down efficiently. How are you absorbing your sugars? You know, how can you how good are you at emulsifying your fats? That's from good bile flow. So can you break down things like and absorb things like your vitamins A d k, which is why so many people with mild illness have liver dysfunction. And then that shows up over time as osteoporosis because you're not getting fat soluble vitamins for strong, healthy bones.

And your your ability to observe calcium through food has been compromised due to bile flow. Remember, bile for everybody who skipped ninth grade science is what your liver makes. It's kind of like your liquid gold detergent in the body. Okay, You just got cut with liquid called detergent. Oh, that's beautiful. It's expensive to make. Your body wants to reuse it. It wants to mount a downer again, hence the liquid gold. But it's great. It's using components of your cholesterol and amino acids, pairing those together to make these bile salts.

And then those are those are actually solid and those are suspended in liquid to make bile in very delicate chemistry. What can make that go wrong? Almost anything. A molecule from your mother in law's dryer sheets. You don't even like the smell, but you don't want to offend her or the glade plug in, you know, in your Uber drivers, you know, on their vents because they think that they're dangerous. Cause they're like, I think those are more toxic than about anything else we bring into our homes.

So for for our audience today, if you have those, please just go unplug them and throw them away. Yes. Thanks. So thank you for bringing it up. That's one of the things, say Dr. Ann and Sinclair told you do not have those in your house. Make us the bad guys. Tell everybody you know, because they're just trying to make money off of you guys. They have no interest or care in what your health picture looks like. In fact, if you really want to go down the rabbit hole, look at who owns those companies and what interest they have in big pharma and how much they benefit from you as a customer.

Later, because you came, became chronically ill from being poisoned by those. Sorry. Yeah, it's a huge rabbit hole. Thank you. It's so it's like the number of people that have those. It just still kind of shocks me that the word is not getting out about them. Yeah, yeah. And just because and luckily for some of you and I do say this very deliberately, you have a visceral like a noticeable reaction to those and I know it feels very uncomfortable, like even unlivable to be so aware of what's around you, but it is so much better to be that way and to know, to get have your body be able to give you that signal that you're in an unsafe environment than it is to not get that signal and get the poison anyway and have to deal with the damage later.

So I do I do say that very deliberately. You are very lucky if you are sensitive, and I came for that to hurt me. But so anyway, it can easily happen that you come across, you know, different environmental toxicants throughout the day that are dropping your bile salts out of liquid form and slowing that down, which means those 2000 miles of bile ducts in your biliary tree, this is your big boy liver, it's triangle and you have this biliary tree, the bile supposed to be formed, and then it's intricately involved in, you know, observing things from the red blood cells and then draining down the biliary tree and then going down into a little catcher's mitt, which is your gallbladder, if you so got one.

And then you gallbladder is going to actually modify that p h of your bile, It's going to condense it and it's going to match the to the needs of the small intestine based on what's generally coming out of the stomach, which is the bolus of food and that's stomach acid. And, you know, your bile, your gallbladder can actually do much more than that. We know now that it can modify your bile to be even more anti-cancer, for example. And depending on the environment, the environment of your digestive system and what what is needed.

So it's it's magnificent this process, but you can't see it on labs. So assume or on normal labs, let's just put it that way. Assume that if you've been poisoned by mold, your liver function has been compromised, and that you could really do with some general liver support, but you don't want to skip right to like whomping your liver over the head with like a lot of glutathione IVs and nothing else. You might have a short term, Oh, I feel a little better. And then a big crash because glutathione is immobilizer and it should never be used by itself, you know, without the context of a larger protocol.

It's not a great binder. Yes, you need it for every stage of liver detoxification, but it's actually better to think about this systemically and make sure that we're supporting drainage first. So is like, say is the exit, you know, from that liver, you know, out the body, Is there a clear exit or is there some stuff on the way? And if you have a buildup of material on the colon, like most of us do, most Americans have five or £20 of feces in their colon. Young Makes one. That's that's true. Yeah.

And most people who have more poisoning have compromised gut motility, in part due to compromise bile flow. And then so you already have a fermentation situation in the gut. So we have to consider that what's between the liver and the exits before we start asking the liver to dump stuff. So we want to ease into this systemically, you know, and really consider the layers of support you need to be successful. What are your favorite things to support the liver in the vial? I like to use bile builders and bile movers and as well as like global liver support.

So if you're not pooping every day, you are not allowed to push detox. I'm sorry. It's time to work on that first. That's right.

Fats, Drainage, and Deeper Cleanup 33:00

There's lots of non habit forming supports out there. You know, everybody has their favorites. But here's one way to do a good deep clean out that's a little short term is to use ozone here. Magnesium. I like oxide powder by Global Healing center. Okay you guys this is not supposed to make like Bristol for beautiful bananas in the toilet. This is supposed to empower your body will draw water into the colon. It's very gentle and just help empower the body to get rid of those, like, weird packets of stuff that at one point or another you're calling was simply not in a position to release efficiently.

And they they just built up so associated magnesium especially oxide powder from Global Healing Center is a great way to fight that. And you will see strange things in the toilet, strange smells, strange textures, strange colors. And that's great. That's a win. And you want to go somewhere between like, yes, I'm having a full release in the morning between that and disaster pants. Disaster pants is too far. You're going to need to modulate your dose down. Well, and it can change. Like once you really get that, get detoxed and get flowing, you still may use the the oxy powder some, but but not at the same rate.

So it is kind of a constant learning curve. Yeah, that's obviously it. Yeah. But it's highly likely that it will be helpful for really that downstream pathway. I love that solution. Yeah absolutely. And so yeah for for an overloaded liver you want to consider like what would really help, what would relieve some of this stagnation without asking you to move too fast and a great way to do that is to provide components that are expensive to come by for the body so that it can more easily make fresh bile and let go of old stuff.

And that will just help support that process in a systemic way. So fast, Tidal clean is great. Quiksilver have P.S. I like it. I just think everybody should be taking it preventively at least a few days a week because it really helps with so many things. But yeah, I'm so glad you brought that up because it's one of my favorites too. Great. So and that's I like the My Slice PC. That's great. But there are other forms on the market and, and it's a major component of bile. So yeah, let's do that. SCA like bile builders like Tadka, which is also the king of bitters.

So I do like so course advanced tadka more than body bios. It's I find it to be more effective. It's got those and it's got as a driver in it, which is very useful for some people. That's going to be too strong to start on, especially for severe, you know, mild illness where your drainage is like very, very low functioning. So you could start out with the body by or you can just start out with a really low dose of the advanced tadka What else do I like? I do like bitters. If you could tolerate them.

Not bitters are not the best place for everybody to start with. If you have like a real histamine intolerance, most of those foods are going to activate that. But again, what it. Is interesting though, because it's so person to person dependent like my body, like I, I can go on that histamine spectrum too. And my body just loves bitters. Like it's like, Oh yeah. Isn't that weird? I've seen that so many times. Yes. Yeah. So it's worth a try. And if you try it and you have get tipped over with a histamines, you know, within 24 hours it should be maybe 48 hours kind of back to your baseline.

But it's worth a try for because for some of us it's amazing. Yeah. What we're doing is we're letting the body know if you take those 20 minutes before a meal, when anybody know, hey, it's time to get the gastric juices flowing. Like this is stuff that you should be. If we were cooking, traditionally the brain and ear olfactory sense would have lots of time to tell the body, Hey, we're going to be digesting soon, get ready. You know, But we we are so quick with the way we prepare meals now or we may be sitting down to somebody else's table or getting takeout or something, that that may not be the case, especially we're not well, we're not doing a lot of meal prep.

So it helps the body get ready and let you know you're gonna need some bile flow. And and that is so beautiful. Like, so many times I hear practitioners of all stripes tell people, Oh, your gallbladder is impacted. We could tell because you're not handling fats well, because you have nausea and GERD and you know you have some of the liver signs of dark circles under the eyes. You know, there's proliferation of skin issues. Like they can see that they're good at actually drawing that association.

But then what they say to do about it is terrible. So like, oh, you have eczema or psoriasis or dermatitis or any of these other rashes, you are histamine sensitive, you're irritable, you're quick to overwhelm brain foggy, you're waking up at 3 a.m. Yeah, that all sounds like the liver. But then they tell you because your your gallbladder pains, when you eat high fat foods, you shouldn't eat a low fat diet. And the problem with that is you're not asking the gallbladder to release you needs a workout.

You have to use that muscle in order to get paid. That's such a great analogy. Yeah. You can never ask it to deal with that. It's just going to not even prioritize that function at all. So how do you. Yeah, how do you get it to work? Right? And I always thought I was just like a very delicate person and yeah, obviously that's true. But, you know, it's like, Oh, I can't handle fats. I prefer to eat very lightly than that. And but the truth is, my gallbladder was so impacted that I could not tolerate any fats without feeling instantly nauseous.

That's a very common thing, right? The bowels trying to move and you get that nausea, you get that pinging, that's that's the gallbladder talking. So you can start with really low doses of high quality fats and you got to play a really clean game. No rancid oils if you have liver and gallbladder issues, if you've been impacted by mold, you're your days of crappy fats are done. What are your favorites? I really like the animal based healing fats. And I don't say this lightly because I spent most of my life as a vegetarian.

Oh, so good. But clinically it's undeniable. I have an ethical responsibility to tell you guys, you know, So you I know you don't want to hear it. Those of you who are being a vegetarian in the audience, I totally understand why. But you will heal faster if you have animal products and animal fats in history. This over and over and over again. It's so much easier for people to heal as they're getting animal fats and animal protein. Especially for liver issues, especially from all illness for so many reasons.

So tallow is deeply healing, deeply healing and. Explaining what tallow is because people may. Have. Yeah, so tallow is animal fat and so it's usually beef tallow. And so this is like a fat that you can actually get in a jar just like butter or ghee or coconut oil. You can and scoops them out and you would actually use that to satay your vegetables or, you know, you could put that and you could drizzle it on like your sweet potato. You could cook meat with it, and it start with just small amounts.

You can also apply tallow topically and that's a really great way to get small amounts of it in. And that's what I had to do for a period time because my skin was so compromised. And it's so healing for the skin and it's very cost effective. You do want to have grass fed grass finished that like animal with animal products. Quality really counts like anything else. Yeah. So tallow is a great food to fat to cook in. And any time you bring in healing fats to the body, it's going to ask the liver and gallbladder to work, which is good.

You just want to do a dose that you are capable of handling. It's like what? What weights are you working with? Like How much can you lift right now? And there's no wrong number. You just want to respect what the body can do right now and you'll work up from there. And and then another good one is key, because even people who are very dairy sensitive can tolerate you. And so a little iffy on that one. I wouldn't put that one in right away just because it can be so inflammatory for so many people.

Yeah, that's true. I did not enjoy ghee in the beginning. For some people it's a lifesaver if they're underweight and due to mold illness. And it's like one of the few things that they can tolerate. So, you know, to each their own, you're going to have to experiment, try it, and then, you know, you can look at the butters that the issue with so many people with this is that you can become very sensitive to dairy. So if you're in that spectrum, one thing to try as an experiment with is goat butter versus cow butter.

You know, obviously the cow products are going to be the hardest on the body. So one of the things that is useful for vegans is coconut oil, but it does have its limitations. And I would really like do you it and it is a beautiful, beautiful food and we just want to be aware that it doesn't solve all problems and the the amount may matter a lot. And you also have to consider your sourcing just like anything else. What other ones did I miss? And help me remember rancid fats versus fats? Actually, you did great.

I like to think some of the avocado oils are high in a quality that I think people do fine with them that I think you did. You got all the the big ones. Yeah yeah. Easy to get in high quality that most people will tolerate. Yeah. So what I want everybody to take away from this is that this is very doable to ease into this, although at a certain point you may need to do deeper liver work and that is really what we're working towards, is preparing the liver, preparing the body and all of the among trays, all of your drainage pathways to get ready for a deeper release of has stacked up, you know, so for mold is highly estrogenic in nature.

And what we know from what we know now is that the liver and gallbladder can both produce stones and get stuck with them for quite some time. And it doesn't have to be like they don't have to be so minimally dense that they show up on scans. In fact, mine never did, and I never did that. I never drank the olive oil because I thought it was, or at least for most of my healing journey, because I thought it was too sensitive to do that kind of, you know, liver flush that has been popularized by the clerk.

And under his words, they have a beautiful body of work, both of them. And we're really in so many ways standing on your shoulders today. But for so many of us, it's not the right move when we're working on liver support. So I had to figure out other ways to offload those and use stone breaker herbs and do suppositories and coffee enemas and different drainage supports and just the right stack. I would pulse a release and I would get stones out on the toilet every time. And if I didn't do the stack right, I didn't get them out.

But I got out over 15,000 stones from the liver. And kidneys over. A period of six months. And I thought for sure I didn't have any shop on the scans. So and they weren't very dense. They were just cholesterol based, you know, with some bile, some toxic sludge in the middle, and they would float on the top of the toilet. So they're less dense than water, heavily oil based, because, remember, cholesterol and that in that way is I absolutely saw finally a full recovery from my what I would consider my mild illness.

So no wonder you couldn't detoxify because you didn't have your bile salts flowing. They were all fledged up. Yes, exactly. Yeah. I mean, that's just it's very basic guys like my biliary tree was just chock full of those.

Resources and Closing Thoughts 45:00

And mold is a great reason for your liver to create cholesterol based stones. So as high levels of estrogen, well, that's highly estrogenic. It's yet another compounding factor. And the the good news is this is all fixable at a rate you can tolerate it. You can just start with the right amount of drainage support for you right now, a little bit of mitochondrial support, the right binders on board for you and then start building bile and adding those elements in. But you may like if you're like me at some point need to do a deeper cleanup.

So I think this is a perfect time to let people know where to find you here. Yeah, I know you have some really great online programs that people will want to tap into when they hear your story and your wisdom on this. So. Yeah, we've taken over 10,000 people, these liver protocols, and it's just absolutely my joy to do anything. Sinclair, you've helped so many people. Yeah, it's. It's so my joy. People come in brain foggy, irritable, overwhelmed and afraid of their bodies. And you don't have to be afraid of your body, guys.

So you. Can we talk about the liver on Instagram? You can come hang out with us there: detoxrejuvenation. We also and the host of Your Health Reset podcast and you can find us that detoxrejuvenation.com. There's lots of fun liver support tools along the way and I just say you just get excited about understanding your body. This is not the problem. This is your greatest friend. This is your sacred vessel. This is your way into this plane of existence, you know, as it and as an eternal being. If that resonates with you, it does for me.

Me too. Yeah. So let's let's get curious and let's love it. Even on the days that are hard. And find the silver and platinum linings because I'm sure you've changed the trajectory of your health for resilience and longevity for many decades to come. Yeah, that's that's the hope, right? So it's doesn't have to be perfect. That's just a to take the next step. Well, thank you so much for so much. This was a way to do. Really, really beautiful information. I know it's going to help a lot of people, too.

Yeah. Thank you so much for being an advocate in this space. I hope everybody's is just soaking up this time you because you're just so magical. So thank you. Thank you, Sinclair. I'll see you soon. Thank you so much.