Full Transcript Introduction to Julie Matthews and Personalized Nutrition 0:07 Welcome back to the Heal Your Brain Masterclass. 0:10 I'm your host, Doctor David Jockers. 0:11 And today I'm interviewing Julie Matthews, the bestselling author 0:15 of the Personalized Autism Nutrition Plan. 0:19 Julie is a certified nutrition consultant and published researcher 0:23 who received her master's degree 0:24 in medical nutrition with distinction from Arizona State University. 0:28 She specializes in children's nutrition and complex neurological conditions, 0:32 most notably autism spectrum disorder. 0:35 For the last 20 years, and she's coauthored peer reviewed research studies 0:38 demonstrating the efficacy of nutrition and a therapeutic diet 0:42 and how to use that for autism. 0:45 Her website is nourishinghope.com. 0:47 You can check her out there. 0:48 And today again, 0:48 we're talking about personalized nutrition for ADHD, autism and anxiety. 0:54 And in particular we're going to go into the role of chronic inflammation 0:58 and how that triggers neurodevelopmental disorders. 1:01 We're going to talk about 1:01 how foods can trigger anxiety irritability and behavioral problems. 1:05 And we're going to talk about the results of two published studies she worked on 1:10 that were related to nutritional approaches to autism, 1:13 specific nutritional approaches, including the role of salicylates 1:17 oxalates and histamines and how they impact brain inflammation. 1:20 You guys are really in for a treat here. 1:22 If you have any questions when it comes to nutrition, 1:25 advanced nutrition, and brain health, Julie is an expert. 1:28 So let's go into the interview with Julie Matthews. 1:31 always great talking with you. 1:33 And, you've done some great work in personalized nutrition, 1:36 which is what I teach. 1:37 And, those that follow me know that I'm a big advocate of personalized nutrition, 1:41 and you've been in this field for many years 1:43 and even publishing studies on this and know how important this is. 1:47 And autism is really on the rise. 1:49 I remember, you know, back in the 1970s, it was like one out of 10,000. 1:53 And now the most recent stats say it's one out of 36 1:57 and it tends to impact boys more than girls, but one out of 36, 2:01 which is roughly I think it's like almost 3% of, 2:05 you know, the kids in our, in the United States who are on the autism 2:10 spectrum disorder, 2:11 why do we have such a what is autism and why do we have such a rise here? 2:15 Well, autism is a neurological condition, a neurodevelopmental disorder, 2:19 and it involves challenges with speech and language and socialization 2:24 and a variety of, you know, repetitive behaviors 2:27 or kind of certain particular types of behaviors that happen 2:31 and why is on the rise, I suppose, a discussion of topic 2:36 that we could probably talk about for years. 2:39 I think it is a combination of our environment 2:43 and our genetic predispositions. 2:46 And I think over time, more environmental 2:48 factors have caused more genetic predispositions, 2:52 and it just has kind of snowballed into the challenge that we have today. 2:57 Yeah, for sure, by environmental factors. 2:59 And one of the big things you're talking about 3:00 is toxins, chemicals that we're being exposed to. Right. 3:02 And so we all have kind of a toxic bucket. 3:04 We have an ability to handle a certain amount 3:06 of toxins and chemicals and process them and get them out.
Why Autism Is Rising and the Role of Environment 3:09 But you know, in our society, women being them, bartered with them 3:13 particularly, you know, over the last 30 or 40 years, 3:16 and we're seeing huge rates, people are not able to detoxify as effectively, 3:20 which makes their nutrition even that much more important. 3:22 And the foods that they're putting in their body. 3:25 And so let's go into, you know, the impact of nutrition 3:28 on a lot of these neurodevelopmental conditions. 3:31 Great. 3:33 What should where should we start? 3:34 What can we do? 3:35 Well, I mean, your book goes into it in great detail. 3:38 Well, obviously, I know, several years ago, you published a large study, 3:43 the Comprehensive Nutritional and Dietary Intervention for Autism Spectrum 3:46 Disorder. 3:48 Reno is a randomized, controlled 12 month study. 3:50 So let's talk about that. 3:52 What you did, how you broke down that study and the findings you got from it. 3:55 Yes. That was, as you said, a randomized control trial. 3:59 So we had a treatment group that did six interventions 4:03 spaced approximately one month apart each, and we followed them over a year. 4:07 So it was a very comprehensive study. 4:10 And we looked at a multivitamin 4:13 mineral formula, essential fatty acids, 4:16 a healthy gluten free, casein free and soy free diet. 4:21 We also looked at Epsom salt baths, carnitine and digestive enzymes, 4:25 and we found an almost 4:28 seven point increase in nonverbal IQ. 4:31 We found four and a half times the developmental age improvement. 4:36 So they started catching up to their peers 4:39 and exceeding the development. 4:42 In that time period, the we found improvements in language 4:46 and sociability and health and mood 4:50 and so many different areas. 4:53 It was quite an exciting study. 4:55 We can maybe at some point we'll see if we want to go into any individual 4:59 kind of case. Casey's in there or not. 5:01 But that was that was the the first paper that we looked at. 5:06 And we were pretty amazed with the results 5:10 for sure. 5:11 Well, the dietary interventions are gluten. 5:13 You said 5:13 gluten free, casein free, soy free, which isn't 5:17 necessarily the easiest thing to do if you're eating the standard 5:20 American diet because there's gluten, dairy and, soy and just about everything. 5:24 But if you're eating a real food focused diet, you can obviously start to 5:28 to avoid those things. 5:29 And why why do you think you saw results like that? 5:34 Well, we each of the interventions 5:37 we used were interventions had already been studied individually. 5:41 So we know we knew they had some success. 5:43 And this is the way that families 5:47 and health practitioners typically implement diet and nutrition, right. 5:51 You don't just add vitamin C and wait a year and see what happens. 5:54 You implement many of the things that work on together. 5:58 So, you know, 5:59 we need nutrients in concert, but we also need to do diet and all that. 6:04 So I think part of the reason we saw results is that we 6:07 did something that is based in real life 6:10 experience, that does work, and it works because we're addressing 6:14 the underlying factors that we see impacted. 6:18 So we see a lot of nutrient deficiencies. 6:20 So we added nutrients. 6:21 We added some of the specific nutrients that can help with mitochondrial function 6:26 like carnitine and Epsom 6:28 salt baths that can help with detoxifying certain substances.
Autism Nutrition Study: Diet, Supplements, and Outcomes 6:32 So we were really trying to address the underlying factors 6:37 inflamed gut poor digestion with a gluten free and dairy free diet. 6:42 So that's why I think that the study showed such good results for sure. 6:46 And for years people have been doing gluten free, dairy free. 6:50 And so let's talk about gluten. 6:51 Let's talk about dairy 6:52 and why taking those out can be beneficial for for a lot of individuals. 6:57 Well, both of those foods or the proteins in 7:00 those foods are a bit difficult to break down and require certain enzymes. 7:06 And when we don't have the best digestion, maybe our microbiome 7:10 is a little bit out of balance, which is common in autism, 7:14 then we're not able to break down those proteins into all the little amino acids. 7:18 And so those protein chains, those two in particular 7:22 mimic opiates in the body and in the brain. 7:26 So imagine it's like morphine or any of those opiate type substances. 7:31 They can get into the body, they can create inflammation 7:34 and they can directly affect what's happening in the brain. 7:37 And so that's one reason they're both also very inflammatory to the gut. 7:41 So if you already have an inflamed digestive tract 7:44 maybe based on the microbiome or other factors 7:47 that's going to contribute to that further. 7:52 Those are a couple. 7:52 The big ones, they affect the immune system they can create. 7:55 Once you create inflammation in the gut, you can start to create systemic 7:59 inflammation. 8:00 And inflammation in the brain is one of the key factors. 8:04 And then as we all know, as you talk about all the time, 8:06 when your gut is inflamed, you're not able to absorb your nutrients properly. 8:09 And we need those nutrients for our brain. 8:12 Yeah. So important. 8:13 And now a lot of people out there when they think about autism, 8:17 they think it's just kind of a neurodevelopmental issue. 8:20 You know, they don't they don't necessarily associate 8:21 inflammation with it. Right. Natural health. 8:24 We talk about a lot of these conditions as you know, basically brain inflammation. 8:28 This is how that that unique and that individual uniquely expresses 8:32 higher levels of inflammation in the body. 8:34 But for a lot of people, they don't realize that. 8:36 Can you tie that in? 8:37 That's a very good point. 8:39 Oh, and a lot of parents might not notice or realize that 8:43 the symptoms their child is experiencing might be inflammation based. 8:47 So sometimes we see kids 8:49 injuring themselves self-injurious behavior or, 8:53 leaning over furniture because their gut hurts or, 8:57 maybe having a lot of negative behaviors because they can't 9:01 express themselves properly or they're in pain and they can't say why. 9:06 So inflammation is at the core of so many things that there's oxidative stress. 9:11 That means we're using up all of our good 9:13 nutrients, means our mitochondria and our cells can't function. 9:17 We don't have the energy we need. 9:19 If our cells can't function, our brain can't function. 9:23 So there's a lot of reasons why inflammation 9:25 can have a direct impact on the brain and the behaviors that we see in autism. 9:31 Yeah, absolutely. 9:32 Whenever I whenever I hear about autism, ADHD, chronic anxiety, things like that, 9:37 I always think the brain's inflamed, even depression, 9:40 all of these kind of brain conditions, brain fog, fatigue, lethargy. 9:45 Okay, I never think okay. 9:46 That's how their body was just created. 9:49 It was created like this. Now they may have a tendency, right? 9:51 We all have kind of unique tendencies for one person. 9:54 When they have inflammation, they have eczema. 9:56 The other person has you know, autism or they have ADHD 10:00 or behavioral issues or something along those lines. 10:02 And sometimes there's a combination, right, 10:04 that people can have an egg can express. 10:06 But I think that's important for our listeners to understand that, 10:09 you know, these are not normal. 10:09 This is not we weren't necessarily designed to have these issues. 10:14 Right. 10:15 But it's actually the way that our body's 10:16 expressing itself under the environmental conditions. 10:20 Absolutely. 10:21 And you know, some inflammation is healthy. 10:24 We need inflammation to fight off viruses and things. 10:26 It's just that when that goes awry 10:29 and there's too much of that and we're not able to turn it off. 10:33 Maybe we have an autoimmune condition. 10:34 Maybe we've triggered the inflammasome with something like oxalates 10:38 or some other thing that's creating chronic inflammation, like an infection. 10:43 Then the system goes awry. 10:45 And when we have that chronic inflammation, that's when we see common 10:49 disorders, health, chronic health conditions. 10:52 Yeah. 10:53 So important I always think about inflammation like a fire in a fireplace. 10:56 So in your home on a cold day, the fire in the fireplace a beautiful thing right. 11:00 Great for the environment. 11:02 Great aroma that it brings. Warms up the house. 11:05 But if you start dumping gasoline on that fire 11:07 and it starts spreading and starting burning down your walls. 11:10 Okay, not a good thing, right? And this is what's happening. 11:12 Our our modern lifestyle is like dumping gasoline 11:16 on that fire, causing, you know, the house to start to burn down. 11:20 And by the time we have these symptoms, the house is starting to burn down 11:23 and we need to see it as a red flag warning sign and lifestyle changes 11:27 need to take place. 11:30 Great analogy, I love that. 11:32 Yeah for sure. 11:33 And so you were talking about gluten free, dairy free. 11:36 This is oftentimes a good starting place for a lot of parents that that they'll do 11:39 with their kids, with ADHD, with autism, with a lot of these 11:43 different types of conditions. 11:44 You also mentioned soy free in that, you know, in that study now in your book, 11:49 you go through a number of different personalized diet. 11:53 So it would be I think it would, you know, I think as a health practitioner,
Why Gluten and Dairy Can Be Problematic 11:57 it would be so easy if it was just okay, gluten 11:59 free diets and everything is better. Right? 12:01 But unfortunately it's just not that easy. 12:03 And so there's a level of personalization that needs to take place. 12:07 Absolutely. 12:08 And sometimes people get amazing results just from gluten free. 12:12 But I had a little boy that was only three that didn't have any language. 12:16 And just doing that diet, he started speaking. 12:19 He ended up with 200 words in a few months on the diet 12:23 and so sometimes something like that can really be amazing. 12:26 But as you said, sometimes it takes more than that. 12:30 And when we look at the underlying systems that are affected, 12:34 we might need to apply a different diet. 12:36 That or an additional diet that can directly affect 12:39 some of those underlying factors. 12:42 And and, you know, that might be a grain free diet. 12:46 If somebody's really got an inflamed gut, it might be a ketogenic diet 12:51 in certain cases. 12:52 And maybe certain mitochondrial issues or, 12:54 you know, whatever might be going on for them. 12:56 It might be, what we call a low salicylate diet, which can happen 13:01 when we don't have the right ability to detox certain substances, 13:06 or our microbiome is out of balance and it's 13:09 depleting those important nutrients we need for that detoxification. 13:13 Yeah, for sure. 13:14 And that takes us to the next study that you were a part of here, 13:17 the Journal of Personalized Medicine in in 2023, the ratings of effectiveness 13:23 of 13 therapeutic diets for autism spectrum disorder. 13:26 And you go through this in detail in your book, 13:28 but can you break that down a little bit? 13:30 You know, some of the main diets that you used and the effectiveness 13:34 and what were some of the most effective, of those different diets? 13:39 Yes. This was a study where we had about 13:44 800 different families who gave their experience 13:48 using therapeutic diets, everything from a gluten free and dairy free diet, 13:53 a specific carbohydrate diet, a paleo diet, ketogenic diet, 13:57 a variety of different suit elimination, allergy type diets. 14:01 We looked at 13 different ones. 14:03 We found a number of interesting things. 14:05 The first was that the 14:09 so this study 14:10 also was used in other papers that were published, 14:13 one on nutrient supplements and one on, 14:19 certain medication, psychiatric and seizure medication specifically, 14:23 all within the autism spectrum and the paper found that therapeutic diets 14:29 were statistically significantly better than both of those other things, 14:35 including supplements, which I was a bit surprised at improving at providing 14:39 an overall benefit to people so they were better at just overall. 14:46 And then compared to psychiatric and seizure medications, 14:50 they were significantly less likely to create adverse effects. 14:55 So really just across the board, all of the diets showed benefit. 14:59 And all of the diets as a whole were one of the best 15:03 treatment approaches used for families. 15:06 So that was very exciting. 15:08 And then we looked at about 700 different metrics. 15:12 Of the different data points. 15:14 So we looked at each of the diets individually 15:16 and what their overall benefit was. 15:18 And we can talk about some of that. 15:19 And then we looked at each of those diets 15:23 and the symptom improvements from those diets. 15:26 So generally speaking, one of the best diets
Inflammation, Brain Health, and Personalized Diets 15:29 overall was a healthy diet, which was very exciting. 15:32 And so, maybe not surprisingly, the number one 15:36 symptom that it helped improve was health, which makes sense. 15:40 But actually I was surprised 15:41 it was better than, you know, diarrhea, constipation, attention. 15:44 It was health. 15:45 So a healthy diet helps you stay healthy. 15:47 Imagine that. 15:48 Well, how did they how did they break down the healthy diet? 15:50 Like, well, what was that defined as a healthy diet was a diet with, 15:55 free, low or free of junk food. 15:58 So artificial ingredients, sugar, 16:03 things like that, high in vegetables, protein and whole foods. 16:08 So that was more of a real food based diet 16:10 coming off a lot of these processed foods. 16:12 Yeah, exactly. 16:13 Yes. Which is a great first step that anybody I mean everybody should be taking. 16:16 Yeah, it's absolutely a great first step. 16:19 In fact, the first two steps of my program in the book are remove 16:23 the junk food and add healthy foods. 16:25 So you've got it from there. 16:26 And then the the Feingold diet, which is a type of a low salicylate diet. 16:31 That was another really, effective diet for overall benefit. 16:36 And then we we can, you know, again, it depends how I slice and dice up the data. 16:40 We can find different things. 16:41 So one of the things we discovered was that 16:44 different diets 16:46 were better at helping with different symptoms, 16:49 which this is where that personalized nutrition aspect comes in. 16:52 So as we all have probably seen in the literature for many, many years, 16:56 the ketogenic diet was the best diet for seizures. 16:59 We know that. 16:59 We've known that, 17:01 but also the ketogenic diet helped with a variety of individual symptoms as well. 17:05 It was actually, it was lower in overall benefit. 17:08 And it had higher adverse effects than others. 17:10 But in terms of individual symptom improvements, it had some of the highest. 17:16 So again, it all depends on what an individual might be looking at. 17:19 Now that diet is a little bit more challenging. 17:21 A little more restrictive than other diets. 17:23 The gluten free, casein free diet also is a diet did that did very well 17:28 and helped improve, attention hyperactivity. 17:34 Language, you know, things like that 17:36 as well as the Feingold diet also did well on individual symptom improvements. 17:40 A lot of the things which was very exciting that we see in practice. 17:43 So in my practice, I often see hyperactivity, irritability, aggression, 17:49 attention improve with the Feingold diet or what I would call a low 17:53 salicylate diet, because there's a number of 17:54 different diets that you can do for a low salicylate diet. 17:58 We see that in practice, and we saw that in the study as well. 18:02 So I would say a couple of the highlights were the gluten free, casein free diet, 18:07 the low salicylate diet, the ketogenic diet 18:11 and a healthy diet were a few of the highlights in there. 18:15 Yeah, that's really good to know. 18:16 And also, you know, you talked about how the nutrition changes were, 18:20 you know, they're more effective and less side effects, or they're safer 18:24 than taking a lot of these medications that people are utilizing. 18:26 Now, obviously, it's you know, it's it's you probably have a little bit 18:30 lower compliance, easier to swallow a pill. 18:32 Right. 18:33 Then, then make a lifestyle change is probably the only downside, right? 18:36 Making lifestyle change can be tough. 18:37 It takes, you know, a certain level of motivation, in order to do that. 18:41 But the fact that it's so safe compared to these medications 18:44 and more effective, that's something 18:46 that everybody should realize, when they're starting to do this. 18:49 And, you know, I always say that ultimately, 18:51 you know, your health results are gonna be 80% lifestyle, you know, supplements, 18:54 maybe 10 or 20%, 80% of that is going to be lifestyle 18:58 getting your sleep dialed in, your nutrition dialed in movement, 19:01 sun exposure, light exposure, things like that. 19:03 That's also critical here. 19:05 And you guys are obviously just focusing on the nutrition. 19:08 And that made a big impact there. 19:09 Imagine if we 19:10 if we coupled that with, you know, good sleep, exercise, getting out in the sun, 19:13 getting out in nature. Right. 19:15 You would just get even better and better results there. 19:17 But you mentioned you mentioned the Feingold, you mentioned Salicylates. 19:21 And most of my audience is not familiar with that. Yeah. 19:24 You break down Salicylates 19:25 and maybe some of the symptoms that people tend to experience 19:27 if they do have some sort of a salicylate intolerance. Yes. 19:31 So this you're right, most people have not heard of this. 19:34 And part of that is that these are contained 19:36 in a lot of really healthy foods that we tend to want to eat, 19:39 which is also, I think, the reason why people don't suspect 19:42 that they could be a problem. 19:43 So Salicylates are a naturally they're a type of phenol, which is,
Therapeutic Diet Study: Which Diets Help Most 19:48 you know, we think about polyphenols, we think of, those really good nutrients 19:51 that we find in colorful fruits and vegetables and things like that, 19:55 you know, again, where we find them in berries and apples 20:00 and grapes and herbs and spices and all these wonderfully nutrient dense foods. 20:04 So we often think, you know, how could they be a problem? 20:07 And maybe their child doesn't eat that many vegetables to begin with. 20:11 So they're eating lots of maybe fruit, and their parent 20:16 is thinking, great, they're at least they're eating some fresh, 20:19 you know, produce, which I would agree. 20:21 Generally speaking. 20:23 But if you have a problem breaking down salicylates, then for that individual, 20:28 these good foods can create 20:31 irritability, aggression, anxiety, 20:35 learning difficulties, hyperactivity, sleeping challenges. 20:41 And so they can really be very disruptive. 20:43 I had one client who he was 20:46 getting very aggressive, and it would just come out of the blue. 20:49 So it was hard when he'd be working with his education 20:53 and therapy appointments and things, you know, he would be lashing out at 20:59 practice, you know, that his, 21:01 you know, aides and his, you know, people that were trying to help him. 21:04 And so, of course, this is very distressing for his mom. 21:07 And, well, we really looked at things and I was suspecting Salicylates. 21:12 So his mom took them out 21:15 and the aggression was virtually gone. 21:20 I mean, overnight for that next month. 21:22 He had one episode that his mom felt that she could pinpoint to something 21:25 he'd eaten. 21:26 So again, the alternative to that which lots of parents, you know, 21:31 maybe they're not there yet, maybe don't want to go. 21:32 There might be medications, to know that potentially food 21:37 can play a dramatic role in improving that, where they might not have to do 21:42 some of the things that maybe they don't want to do or that, 21:45 you know, maybe diet could even be more effective them than they could be. 21:49 It's just a very exciting thing to see. 21:51 So, the low sulfur diet is maybe one of my favorites, in that it's so effective. 21:56 It's if you look at my book, it's divided into kind of two parts. 22:00 The second half is how to customize and personalize diet. 22:03 And I kind of go 22:04 step by step on the easiest to do diets that can have the biggest impact. 22:08 The first one in that section is this is the low salicylate diet. 22:12 Because I see so many wonderful improvements, 22:15 a vast majority of people with autism, as well as ADHD, 22:19 as well as you can look at IBS, depression in a variety of different conditions. 22:24 People have poor salvation, 22:27 the, challenge breaking down things like salicylates and so, it 22:32 it's not really surprising, I suppose, that this diet could be so helpful. 22:37 When you look at how many are affected and also the underlying factors 22:42 like the microbiome that can deplete 22:45 these pathways is also very common in autism. 22:49 Now, when you're going on a lower 22:51 salicylate diet, you're taking out a lot of these, 22:53 what we consider very healthy foods like blueberries I believe broccoli, 22:57 you know, stuff like that. 22:58 Yes. Now is there hope for these people like do you go on it 23:01 for let's say six weeks a month, three months, right. 23:05 Meanwhile you're doing other lifestyle things and maybe supplements, 23:09 and then you can start to possibly if you're noticing improvements, right, 23:13 then, start to possibly add some of these foods back in. 23:17 What is your experience with that? Yes. 23:20 My experience is that a vast majority of the time, 23:23 this diet in particular is something that people can often go back 23:27 to eating many of these wonderful and some don't need the pain at all. 23:31 Some people need the diet for certain foods or certain quantities 23:34 of these foods that just have that sort of lower threshold than others. 23:37 But absolutely. 23:38 And that's, I think one of the things 23:40 that maybe sets the book apart a little bit from other approaches is that 23:44 it's, you know, when you learn about doing a diet, 23:48 you don't have to learn how to not do the diet or how to not need the diet. 23:51 You learn why you need it and how to do it, which is a great first step. 23:55 But I really talk about why someone might be needing that diet 23:59 and how can we, as you had mentioned, work on those underlying factors 24:03 in the background so we can try to improve the intolerance 24:06 we have to those so we can go back to eating those wonderful foods. 24:10 Yeah, I think that's important. 24:11 I think, you know, in our, in our 24:13 in our natural health world, we we focus a lot on elimination. 24:17 And that can be a really important, crucial first step. 24:21 But we focus less on building resilience. Right. 24:23 And I think that and we you know, it's clickbait, to you know, 24:27 say all lectins are bad, you know, stay away from oxalates are poisoning you. 24:31 Right? It's very, very clickbaity. 24:33 And there may and there's a half truth to it because in some cases they are. 24:36 But, you know, across the board, 100% of people, that's not really the case. 24:39 And then also ultimately, even if somebody is oxalate 24:42 intolerant, salicylate intolerant, it would be good to build resilience. 24:46 So their load that triggers inflammation. 24:49 You know, instead of let's say if, if they consume two grams of it 24:52 and that triggered inflammation, 24:54 what if we got that resilience factor up to where I was ten grams before it 24:57 triggered inflammation. 24:58 That's what we should be trying to do. 24:59 Right. Exactly. 25:01 That's exactly it. 25:02 And so that is one of the things I really try to do, really try to let people know 25:06 what are some of the nutrients that can be deficient? 25:09 What are some of the pathways for which our body creates some of these nutrients 25:12 that we can boost up? 25:14 What are some of the factors like infections 25:18 or the microbiome or toxins that can be depleting these, things? 25:22 How can we build a more resilient system? 25:25 Because the more limited our diet gets, the less nutrient, 25:30 robust it is, and the more, the lower number of foods that we eat. 25:35 So the more likely we could be creating a sensitivity over the long term. 25:38 So the more foods, the more variety, the better it is from many perspectives. 25:43 So that's always my goal. 25:45 Yeah, absolutely. 25:46 Now I mentioned oxalates and you talk a lot about oxalates in the book.
Salicylates and Low-Salicylate Diet Benefits 25:49 So let's let's talk more about that. Yes. 25:52 This is another one of those sort of secret 25:55 I don't want to say secret weapons, but maybe, one of those less 25:57 known food compounds that can make a really big difference. 26:01 So there was a study done. 26:03 It was a while ago. Now is over ten years ago now. 26:05 But it was on the on oxalates and autism. 26:10 And they found that individuals with autism 26:13 that did not have a history of kidney stones, 26:16 they were or even, you know, 26:19 kidney dysfunction, they 26:22 every single one of them had an arc, 26:25 had high oxalates either in their urine or their plasma, and in most cases in both 26:31 and this was very, surprising to oxalate researchers 26:35 because normally this high level 26:38 of oxalate causes serious challenges. 26:41 And it it is. 26:43 But people weren't aware of the other types of challenges you can get. 26:47 Most people think of all the kidney challenges 26:49 they don't realize can create oxidative stress. 26:52 It can create, challenges with the microbiome. 26:54 It can directly affect the microbiome. 26:56 It can deplete nutrients, and it can play a factor in our mitochondria. 27:03 So every cell in every organ can be slightly diminished 27:08 when we have an issue with oxalate. 27:10 So, fatigue, you know, all of that kind of thing. 27:13 So and where do people get oxalates? 27:16 Like what? 27:17 Where are they coming, what are they and where are they coming from? 27:19 Yeah, they come from plant foods. 27:21 They're made by plants 27:22 as a defense mechanism against, you know, bugs and things like that. 27:26 Predators. 27:27 And they are found in lots of foods. 27:32 Some of the big ones, spinach, Swiss chard, 27:37 beets, sweet potatoes, rhubarb. 27:40 Some things we eat more than others. 27:42 The spinach one is a one. 27:44 Chocolate chia seeds is a big one. 27:46 Almonds is a big one. 27:48 So something like almonds. 27:50 And again, a lot of times what we do is we go to these 27:52 put health foods because they are dense in nutrients. 27:54 Some of these foods are the highest in calcium. 27:57 Well one of the reasons they are so high oxalate two is oxalate and calcium 28:00 bind together in nature. 28:02 So unfortunately sometimes people go 28:04 looking at spinach and almonds as high calcium foods, 28:08 but they get so much oxalate in there that they can't use that calcium. 28:13 And then that oxalate, there's so much that it starts binding up other food, 28:19 other, other, minerals in those foods and create such a challenge for them. 28:23 So, yeah, I think that's where a balance can come in. 28:26 You know, I think sometimes in the health food world, we get a little 28:30 what, you know, take a little thing and and more is better. 28:32 And we have these. Yeah. 28:33 She actually puddings and chia 28:35 seeds everything's and almond flour everything's and you can get 28:40 ten times, 20 times the daily 28:43 amount of oxalate in a single serving of some of these foods. 28:47 Yeah for sure. 28:48 And now, 28:50 for, for many people in their microbiome, they have a bacteria oxalate actor 28:53 from ingest that breaks down actually eats the, the, oxalates and produces 28:59 all different types of healthy post 29:00 biotic nutrients to support the gut microbiome 29:03 and support the, the intestinal lining. 29:04 But for many people, they don't have that. 29:07 And there's a couple other bacteria that that play a role. 29:09 So depending on their microbiome and of course people with autism, ADHD, 29:14 you know, one of the main factors is they have disruption, they have a dysbiosis 29:18 and an abnormal balance. 29:19 And they may not have that bacteria or those that the couple of bacteria 29:22 that really specialize in breaking down oxalates. 29:25 So when they're consuming, they're just these plant defense 29:29 chemicals, these crystal form, these crystal compounds 29:31 are just getting into the system, causing inflammation 29:34 in the gut, getting out in the bloodstream. 29:36 I also heard that Candida can produce oxalates as well. 29:39 So if we have a yeast overgrowth in our system or Candida overgrowth 29:43 that can also produce more oxalates, is that the case? 29:46 It is the case that a variety of different funguses can produce oxalate. 29:50 There is a connection with Candida and high oxalate. 29:53 Some of the question sometimes is is the body trying 29:57 to get into homeostasis, but it's just a little bit gone awry. 30:00 So do we have high candida 30:03 as a way of trying to help this high oxalate level? 30:07 It's hard to know. 30:08 It's not it's not, in the end, healthy. 30:10 But we do see that oxalate going hand-in-hand with the Candida. 30:13 We do know that Aspergillus can produce oxalate. 30:18 And so yes, we do see some of that. 30:20 And it's a matter of how do we 30:24 you know, the microbiome is very complex. 30:26 And so, you know, sometimes, you know, we can have a little bit of candida, 30:31 but is it in its you know, Haifa stage, is it in its, 30:35 highly virulent stage or is it in a more mild stage? 30:38 And, you know, how do all these things affect it? 30:40 And oxalate also can kill beneficial bacteria. 30:45 So, you know, some people say, oh, just boost up the microbiome. 30:48 Well, oxalate, if it can kill bacteria, we might have to address it 30:52 from both sides of the spectrum, in order to really get those results. 30:57 As you were saying earlier 30:58 with, say, salicylates, sometimes we need to reduce the burden on the bottom body. 31:02 That's often explained to practitioners. 31:04 You know, 31:05 we want to have a robust diet, but sometimes we really need 31:08 to take that burden off so that we can work on addressing 31:10 those underlying systems, boost those back up. 31:14 Yeah, I think that's important. 31:15 And in particular, 31:16 when we're talking about this conversation, 31:17 talking about kids with autism, ADHD, adults 31:21 with anxiety, kids with anxiety, we know that their brain is already inflamed. 31:24 So the way I think about it is it's kind of like 31:27 if you have a sprained ankle, right?
Oxalates, Gut Health, and Nutrient Support 31:28 So like, 31:29 you know, most of us would say, hey, going at going out 31:31 and going for like a little run is good. 31:33 But if you have a sprained ankle, you need time to rest and 31:36 and allow it to recover. Right. 31:38 So you actually need, you know non weight bearing right. 31:41 You need to kind of keep it up and allow it to heal. 31:43 Well it's kind of the same thing here. 31:45 You don't want that that mechanical stress on 31:48 or the stress on the gut because you need time for it to heal. 31:51 So the more that we can reduce these things 31:53 that are over stressing and overwhelming the gut, allowing it to heal 31:57 and then allowing the blood 31:58 brain barrier to seal and bringing down overall inflammation. 32:01 The better off we're going to be for this long term. 32:04 You know, we don't want to be sedentary and, you know, keep our ankle up 32:07 long term, only short term to allow the inflammation to come down. 32:10 It's kind of the same thing here with the diet. 32:12 Absolutely. 32:14 Yeah. 32:14 So so we're talking about oxalates right. 32:17 And so what are some of the things you know 32:19 we mentioned foods that are high in oxalates. 32:21 What are some other things that perhaps can help 32:24 help support oxalate metabolism in the body. 32:29 Well, 32:31 certain vitamins and minerals are important. 32:33 So, just getting enough calcium and magnesium can help us bind it. 32:37 And just wash it out in the stool or flush it out, 32:41 which is one of the primary ways we avoid having an issue. 32:45 We want to make sure that our gut is, like you said, good 32:49 and sealed so that we don't get it leaking in there. 32:52 And also, certain vitamin deficiencies can cause us to produce 32:56 endogenous oxalate or oxalate inside the cell. 33:00 And really what we want to avoid is getting oxalate inside the cell. 33:04 So when we eat it, it has to go through our gut. 33:07 It has to be not bound to something. 33:11 It has to not have the good bacteria. 33:12 It has to have a leaky 33:14 gut to get into the bloodstream and then get transported into the cell, 33:18 which is, you know, there's a lot of steps that have to happen for that to happen. 33:21 Whereas when it's produced inside the cell, it's already there. 33:24 And so that is equally, if not more of a challenge. 33:28 And so there are nutrient deficiencies, certain B vitamins can cause that. 33:33 And so. 33:36 I guess, replenishing the nutrients 33:38 that it depletes and including the nutrients 33:41 so that they don't get produced in the first place, is important. 33:45 Yeah, for sure. 33:46 I know citrate also help to bind oxalate. 33:48 So you can do like a magnesium, calcium or even potassium citrate 33:53 that can help help pull it out. 33:54 And lemon, you know, lemon juice for example, is kind of a natural 33:57 form of magnesium, potassium citrate. 34:00 So perhaps some of that you mentioned vitamin B6 right. 34:03 That plays a role in oxalate metabolism as well. 34:06 Absolutely. And yeah the citrate great. 34:09 It helps prevent crystal formation and things like that. 34:12 So that's really good. 34:13 So a lot of times, like you said, when people do calcium or magnesium, 34:16 they'll do it in that citrate form, which is great. 34:19 And yes, I mentioned B vitamins, but you're right, it's B1 and B6, 34:22 that are two of the ones that are particularly important 34:26 to have an adequate supply so that the body doesn't convert things 34:30 into oxalate. 34:33 Yeah, that's that's super important. 34:35 So we talked about those things. 34:36 How about histamines. 34:37 Are you seeing that as a factor as well. 34:40 Histamine is another big one. 34:41 There is great work by a doctor Theoharis 34:44 who looks at histamine and mast cell activation in autism. 34:48 That is a big factor. 34:50 And of course, we 34:51 we have the environmental component of mold can trigger mast cell activation 34:55 and various sections can trigger it as well. 34:59 And so when we have this environment 35:03 and then we have this, propensity to 35:07 maybe create inflammation, you know, the mast cells release histamine. 35:12 And so then his and then our system can get overloaded. 35:15 And you know, there are a number of reasons for that, 35:19 including proper methylation. 35:21 If we don't have proper methylation and I talk a lot about proper methylation 35:25 and how to get the nutrients needed for proper methylation, if we don't have it, 35:29 one of the things that can happen is our body can get overwhelmed by histamine. 35:34 We should be able to break it down, but if there's more, 35:37 then we have the capacity for, then that's when we see a problem. 35:40 And so one of the ways that we have some direct 35:44 influence over that is to not consume more coming in from the diet. 35:48 So a low histamine diet has been very helpful as well. 35:52 Yeah. 35:52 So a big thing with low histamine would be like for example, not doing 35:55 leftovers, trying to kind of cook your prepare your meals fresh. 35:59 And then there's some things that you know are really touted in natural health 36:02 world, like for example, apple cider vinegar bone broth. 36:05 You're noticing like if you take some apple cider 36:07 vinegar and water, you have a headache, right? 36:09 Or a skin reaction or something like that. 36:11 You might be histamine sensitive, right? Bone broth. 36:13 You drink bone broth and you just had this massive headache. 36:16 It probably histamine sensitive. 36:18 So these are some of the signs. 36:20 And I know you have questionnaires in the book that kind of help 36:22 people understand some of the symptoms, some of the experiences they may have that 36:27 could lead them to one of those, types 36:30 of elimination diets that may be most beneficial for them. 36:33 Yes. So over the years of working with children, I have 36:37 to figure it out. 36:39 Many of the common symptoms associated with certain food compounds, 36:42 and there are some that are very distinct for certain, certain foods. 36:47 And what's also interesting is that there are certain what I call symptom clusters. 36:52 So if someone has fatigue, you might see it on a number of my different lists. 36:56 But if you see, you know, fatigue with irritability, hyperactivity, 37:01 and red cheeks, that might be a very different compound than if you see 37:04 fatigue with low muscle tone and pain, for example. 37:08 And so that's why the finding patterns in those food 37:12 or in those symptom questionnaires can be helpful for parents. 37:16 Yeah. 37:16 And you've been using these questionnaires 37:18 and kind of tinkering with them for what, 12 over 20 years now. 37:22 So you've really kind of 37:23 helped isolate and and seen these clusters in these patterns. 37:27 And then utilize these kind of therapeutic diets effectively with that.
Histamine Sensitivity and Symptom Clusters 37:31 Absolutely. Yes. 37:32 I have I've been doing that. 37:33 And then some of the research that we did also help to highlight some of that. 37:37 So that was also exciting to, where we discovered some new things. 37:41 And we, confirmed some of the other pieces. 37:45 Yeah. That's key. 37:45 And then, of course, you know, when somebody goes on one of these 37:48 elimination diets, takes out histamines or takes out oxalates, and the question 37:52 is, okay, what foods can I eat and what kind of recipes can I make? 37:56 And you address that in the book, because that's 37:58 always the next question is, all right, I'm taking out a lot of foods 38:02 now, what can I eat and how do I prepare it? 38:05 Yes, that does get tricky. 38:07 So, there's two things in the book 38:09 if you're doing multiple diets at one time, I have a chart 38:12 of some of the foods and what that's when it gets even more complicated. 38:16 You're on a low salicylate, low oxalate gluten free diet. 38:19 Yes, exactly. 38:21 So I do have some charts in the book for that. 38:23 And each of the recipes is tagged with all the diets it's compliant with 38:27 and which can be easily adapted to become compliant. 38:32 So yeah, there's 50 recipes that are all some of my favorite 38:37 client kid friendly recipes, that are rich in nutrients. 38:41 And then people can go, they're all gluten free, dairy free, and soy free. 38:44 And then beyond that, they some are paleo, some are keto, 38:49 you know, some are low salicylate, whatever it a low histamine. 38:53 All of those types of things. 38:54 Yeah. Yeah for sure. 38:56 So it's kind of a step by step process like you talked about in the book. 38:59 You know just going on one of those healthy diets, Mediterranean style diet, 39:02 real food style diet. Right. 39:04 Hopefully you feel a lot better with that. Right. 39:06 But there's a lot of individuals that are not or they're already doing it. 39:09 You know, a lot of people 39:10 that are listening to this podcast that, you know, 39:13 they're already following a lot of these diets. 39:14 And that's where in the deeper personalization really needs to come in. 39:17 And, you know, your book is really a masterpiece on that. 39:20 So I recommend everybody go out and check it out. 39:21 The Personalized Autism Nutrition Plan nourishing Hope for kids 39:25 with Autism Spectrum Disorder, ADHD, anxiety and Neurodevelopmental delays. 39:30 Of course, this book isn't just for kids, right? 39:32 Adults will also get a lot of benefit out of it as well. 39:35 And I'll also, if you know anybody, 39:37 you know, 39:37 that's dealing with any of these issues or dealing with it with their kids, 39:40 this can be a really great eye opener for them. 39:42 Again, she showed in these studies that making 39:46 these nutrition changes was significantly better. 39:49 So it had better results and much safer than taking the common 39:53 commonly prescribed medications, for these conditions. 39:56 So, you know, you can rest assured it's safer, more effective. 40:00 Right. 40:01 And then on top of that, 40:02 it's going to help your whole body, not just those particular symptoms. 40:05 Right. 40:06 But it's going to lower your overall risk of all cause, you know, chronic 40:09 disease, risk of diabetes, developing heart disease. 40:12 So if the whole family gets on it, 40:14 just because, you know, little Timmy has autism, 40:18 you know, the dad, 40:19 you know, father is going to reduce his risk of diabetes and heart disease, 40:23 lose weight if he needs to optimize his overall metabolic health. 40:26 Mom is right. Everybody's going to get healthier. 40:29 Absolutely. 40:30 And that was the beginning of the book is all about a good, healthy diet 40:33 and what that looks like for everybody. 40:36 And so absolutely, you know, 40:38 I just think there's really no downside to eating healthier. 40:41 And, and then a lot of them, most of us are we have similar genetics. 40:46 And so the thing that helps the child often does healthy adults too. 40:50 I've had more than one mom lose over 50 or 70 pounds. 40:56 I've had, siblings get rid of their anxiety or their ADHD. 41:01 I've had moms or dads get, 41:05 control 41:05 over an autoimmune issue or a digestive complaint or something like that.
Recipes, Practical Tips, and Final Takeaways 41:09 So often you see great results with the whole family when they do it. 41:14 Yeah for sure. 41:15 Well, Julie, 41:15 you've really written a masterpiece here and I just want to acknowledge 41:18 all the great work 41:19 you're doing, publishing these studies on personalized nutrition. 41:22 You know, in the natural health world, a lot of people get into 41:25 kind of their nutrition camp, right? 41:26 And they're like a plant based diet for everybody. 41:28 Carnivore diet, keto diet. Right. 41:30 Whatever it is for everybody. 41:32 And really everybody's different. 41:34 And so some people may do great on, you know, a carnivore 41:37 diet or a plant based diet or a low oxalate diet. 41:40 Right. 41:40 But, you know, it's really all about personalization 41:43 because we're all unique and different. 41:44 And, you know, you've really written a masterpiece on it. 41:46 So thanks so much for that great work. 41:48 Any last words? Inspiration for people? 41:50 Well, thank you for all of that. 41:52 I would just say, you know, keep nourishing hope just, 41:54 you know, start wherever you are. 41:56 If some of these concepts are overwhelming, if you are new to this, 42:00 if your child is a very picky eater, picky eating is very, very common in autism. 42:05 And so just start with any little thing that you can 42:08 maybe it's taking out the junk. 42:09 Maybe it's taking out some artificial additives. 42:12 So anywhere you start is a good place to start. 42:15 And then little by little, over time, you can make adjustments as you can 42:18 and and go from there. 42:20 So I like to just let people know, you know, you're not alone. 42:22 And there are things that you can do no matter where you're starting. 42:25 Yeah. That's important. You don't have to make it. 42:27 You know, overnight, right? 42:28 You can take baby steps moving in the right direction. 42:31 Yes. Absolutely. Great. 42:33 Well thanks again Julie guys. 42:34 Again the book is the Personalized Autism Nutrition Plan. 42:38 So check that out on Amazon.com. 42:39 I'll have a link in the show notes as well. 42:41 And nourishing hope.com as well for Julie's great website. 42:45 So all right guys, go ahead and and get that book. 42:48 Check out our website and we'll see everybody on a future interview.
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