Reactivated Microbes, Cellular Health, Lyme And Autoimmunity

Introduction and Guest Background 0:00

Well, welcome to the conquering Chronic Inflammation Summit. I'm your host, Doctor David Jokers. And today I have the honor of interviewing doctor Bill Rawls. He is from Vital Planet Zoo, co-founder and medical director. And for over 30 years, doctor Bill Rawls has dedicated his life to medicine through his bestselling books, Unlocking Lime and the Cellular Wellness Solution. Doctor Rawls demonstrates why crucial herbal phytochemicals are key to protecting cellular health and strengthening the body's defense against illness.

Doctor Rawls is also the founder of Vital Plan, a holistic health company where he developed the signature restore 180 program, an advanced herbal protocol that has helped thousands to reclaim vibrant health. You can check out his website, Rawls, md.com. That's Ray Wells, md.com. And today we're talking about how inflammation is really a symptom and not a cause of chronic illness. We're going to talk about true cellular solutions to chronic inflammatory conditions. You guys are in for a treat. Be sure to check out Rawls md.com and his restore 180 program.

Without further ado, let's go into the interview. Well, doctor Bill Rawls. Great to connect with you here. And I know you've been practicing for over 30 years and seen a lot of complex chronic illness out there. And of course, you got your bestselling books all about unlocking Lyme and cellular wellness solutions. And your research and work challenges this common belief that inflammation causes chronic illness. Can you explain more about what inflammation actually is and why it's not the root cause? Sure. Yeah.

You know, it's all about definitions that are. Just through my whole career, I've heard that inflammation is the cause of chronic illness, this cause of chronic illness. And we treat the inflammation. But if you really look at the definition of it, inflammation is part of the process of chronic illness. And so, you know, if you're just treating the inflammation you're not getting to the root causes of the problem. And I think that's a big problem in our conventional medical system. We're treating the processes and manifestations and symptoms of illness with drugs that block those things artificially.

But we don't get to the root causes of the problem. So people aren't getting well. And, so when you block inflammation artificially, you're also blocking the ability of the body to recover, to heal itself. So that's why I say all the anti-inflammatory drugs have all those different side effects that we hear about. Yeah. Absolutely. Absolutely. So inflammation is a major factor. But it's not at the root. Right. And just targeting the inflammation alone. Yep. Can offer some temporary relief. But it's not actually addressing the root cause factor.

Inflammation as a Symptom of Cellular Stress 2:51

That's it for sure. So what are the underlying factors. What have you seen being, you know, the major drivers here. Yeah. Well, you know, I, I, I've been doing this a while. I actually it's been 40 years since I graduated from medical school. Hard to believe that, the first part of that was practicing obstetrics and gynecology. My health crashed. I ended up identifying, with chronic Lyme disease. So the past 20 years has been really figuring out chronic illness. And getting to the root of it has taken me to the, you know, on a very interesting journey.

And it really brings us to this thing. Our body is made almost exclusively of cells. Everything in the body is cellular. And that's, you know, so at least 90% of the body is cells. It's held together by loose connective tissue. We have about 2 pounds of microbes that are part of a stew, but it's mostly cells and everything that happens in the body is due to the actions of cells. So when you look at the the body as a cellular model, you know, each one of our cells is an independently functioning unit.

And nerves, signaling agents, hormones are coordinating cellular functions. So our body works as a unit. But, but it's the individual cells, and each one of those cells has to have the right nutrients, a clean environment, downtime to recover. So those are getting toward the root causes of what our cells need. So what inflammation actually is, you know, we can we can look at this question of what is something associated with chronic illness and look at it from that question of cellular health. And it takes us to a very logical place.

So what inflammation is, is die off of cells. So when our cells are stressed, when we're not eating a good diet, when we're exposed to toxic substance is when we're not sleeping. And our cells don't get recovery time when we don't exercise and we don't flush the toxic debris and junk that collects around our cells. Or the big one we can talk about also is microbes. Our cells are stressed, and when cells are stressed, they burn more energy. They burn out faster. And especially if there's a microbe factor, you know, you have, destruction of cells and that creates debris and congestion.

And, you know, so when you think about our cells, think about something like a muscle tissue. All those cells are packed together very, very tightly. And you have blood vessels that run amongst all those cells. But but nutrients, oxygen, all the things that cells need must come from the blood vessel and spill out into the spaces between cells and all the metabolic, waste and toxic substances that cells are purging have to be collected and pushed either in the vascular space or the lymphatic space.

So it's a really tight space. So if you've got dead cells and debris and congestion, you still start choking pretty fast. So that is the root of what's happening with inflammation. And then on top of that, the body sends a cleanup crew, cells called macrophages that come in and use potent acid and free radicals to break down the debris and the congestion from dead cells, dead microbes, other things going on. So if you have that localized, like you sprain your ankle, that's why it swells up. That's what's going on inside.

But chronic illness that's going on in tissues throughout your body, your heart, your joints, your brain, your muscles everywhere. And so that debris and congestion and toxic cleanup with potent acid and free radicals, that's what inflammation is. So the root of it is cellular stress. Always. And so getting to the root of the problem is getting to the root of the cellular stress. And it's really that simple. Yeah for sure. And you mentioned a couple of the key factors. Toxins. You mentioned microbes obviously.

You know there's there's you know a number of different things that can that can drive cellular stress. I know in your work you talk a lot about reactivated microbes. Can you go let's let's do a deep dive on on different microbes. And what you mean by this, this term reactivated microbes. Yeah, this is a big deal. It's a space that I've been in for the past decade of just accumulating research and trying to find logical reasons why people get sick. So when we look at chronic illness as a or any kind of symptom as a result of cellular stress, when cells are stressed,

How Reactivated Microbes Drive Chronic Illness 7:48

you know, they can't do their job, they don't function as well. So we start so that's what a symptom is, is, is our cells losing function in that particular area. So our cells are weakened by poor diet toxic substances not getting sleep, not getting exercise. You know, those are kind of the core things that keep us healthy. But the micro factor really adds a whole different level of understanding to this thing. And the fact of the matter is we pick up microbes all through life. So, you know, I became ill because I went 20 years doing call every second or third night and finally lost the ability to sleep as I was in my late 40s and my whole body crashed.

I identified with chronic Lyme because I felt like there had to be something else going on, because even when I stopped practicing obstetrics and didn't have the night call, I wasn't getting any better. Something was holding it in place. So, you know, logical. Could it be a microbe? And I thought, you know, I was exposed to a lot of tick bites when I was a kid. Maybe it could be Lyme disease. Finally got a test that showed I was carrying that, but also other microbes and thought, this is it, take antibiotics.

I can get well like so many people, but I didn't and it made it worse instead of better. So long story short, that microbe journey that I realized, you know, these microbes had been in my system for a long time without making me sick. It wasn't until my body was stressed, my cells were stressed that it actually, worsened my condition and held it in place. So I started researching how these microbes function. So there are a lot of microbes that were exposed to tick bites, mosquito bites, picking up things.

When we're children, you know, contact with other people, sexual and casual, just so many roots that microbes have into our body. And a lot of things that were exposed to, including tick borne microbes, don't cause us to be severely ill initially. A lot of times, we don't even know that we've picked the microbes up. They're very stealthy, and they have two mechanisms of survival. So what they want is just to persist in our body. An opportunity to grow and have more opportunities to spread to other host. So what they're doing is their whole strategy is persistence in the two big things that they do with to do that are invading cells and slowing their growth.

So many bacteria survive by basically overwhelming us. Like if you get a, pneumococcal pneumonia, that bacteria is growing very fast. Antibiotics work very well. But it, it, you know, so so it's, you know, it's something that we can get a handle on pretty quickly with conventional tools. Borrelia is growing very, very slowly. The Lyme bacteria. But all the co-infections, Bartonella but Bézier and a plasma Rickettsia, plus other things like Mycoplasma and chlamydia and Epstein-Barr and other herpes viruses and even long Covid, many of these things can stay dormant inside of our cells for long periods of time.

This has been documented for streptococcal a static Staphylococcus, a lot of things that we didn't know did that, but that's how they persist. They enter cells throughout the body. Some microbes prefer different cells, and they basically stay there quietly until we're stressed in various other ways. And sometimes that's a new infection, like a new Covid infection. You can and and these things then come out, start emerging from our cells, start attacking other cells, and they start turning basically our tissues into a food supply to grow more microbes.

So it explains chronic Lyme disease very eloquently. But when you start looking at multiple sclerosis or autoimmune illnesses or virtually anything, you know, I've been able to start picking out the possibility or even direct evidence of this going on for various different microbes. And it's typically not one thing. It's all the things that you've picked up during your lifetime or starting to reactivate. And breaking down tissues is driving the symptoms. Driving the inflammation, driving the illness as a whole.

But it's, yeah, it's really fascinating. Yeah, absolutely. And so, yeah, obviously we can use things like antibiotics in certain cases, but again, not really getting to the root cause. Right. And addressing what's happening and these, these bacteria and these different microbes, you know, they're they are opportunistic. Right. So they're you know, we're always exposed to these things. But what's the difference between somebody who actually gets an infection, where at least a long term chronic type infection versus somebody who maybe has a short term bout or even their system never, you know, just kind of just kind of passes right through their system or lives.

Commence commensal inside their body. What is the difference between the person that's suffering with a chronic condition versus the person that you know is exposed, but doesn't have any major, long lasting symptoms? Yeah. It's, it's really all about cellular health, truly. And and, you know, when we look at these low grade stealth pathogens, it's like Borrelia. I've come around to appreciating that acute Lyme disease people getting really badly sick from a tick bite is pretty uncommon. Really. Most people get tick bites.

They think, oh, well, I didn't get symptoms, I didn't feel bad, so I didn't get an infection. But what I've come to appreciate is that's not that's not how it goes. You know, these microbes are entering our system. They're very good at just bypassing the immune system, routing around the immune system so that they can penetrate into cells. And yeah, this is this is, this is a game that's been going on for ever between microbes and our immune system. So for everything that the immune system throws at them, they find ways to get around it.

And so we just live in this state that, you know, we we pick up some things we keep there. So some things in our tissues. So with an acute infection all symptoms that you have are the microbe say Borrelli after a tick bite, it's coursing through your bloodstream. The immune system is aggressively going after it. And a lot of the symptoms come from the immune reaction to the presence of the microbe as much as the microbe itself. But even in people who are healthy, who are. Well, some of them get through, you know, I and and the part that's hard to evaluate is we don't necessarily take healthy people and do deep tissue boxes to find out what they might have inside their cells.

So it's, it's hard to get that information. So the information that I'm working with has been pieced together from, you know, random tissue, tissue biopsies, autopsy specimens, looking at other animals. This has been well documented in other animals. But it looks like every living organism harbors, microbes within cells, within their tissues. And it, so, so they're there. So once they're there, if you're healthy, they can just be there for a long time, possibly a lifetime. We don't know. But if you have poor health habits and as you age, you know, your cells are aging, you start becoming more and more vulnerable.

And these things start reactivating. And once they do, you know, then it then the microbes take over as driving the illness. So, you know, once you have a certain level of microbe reactivation that causes cellular stress, that's driving more microbe reactivation, then it becomes this chronic situation. And that's what happened to me. That's why even improving my health habits, stopping taking call, I still didn't get better. Yeah, I'm sure that was a big factor with you getting to the point where the infection got so chronic was obviously the circadian rhythm disruption of, working overnight, being exposed to blue light at night, blocking your melatonin growth hormone release.

So your immune system then became dysfunctional. And, obviously that created the environment where that infection that reactivated microbe could really thrive. But like you said, you tried to correct that root. That root cause, but still weren't able to get better. Now, what else did you do? Obviously you help. You worked on fixing your circadian rhythm. What were the other factors that you did, the other things that you were using in order to weather his lifestyle?

Herbal Therapy vs. Conventional Medications 17:27

Natural strategies, herbal strategies. What were you using to help regain your health? Yeah. You know, this was about 2005. It's been about 20 years ago. And, I did all the things that, just made sense that, you know, I hadn't really learned from a conventional medical training. I changed my diet. I really sharpened my diet up. I looked at environment and possible causes of, disruption inside of my body. I always believed in exercise, but I reached a point where I was having a hard time walking a half a mile at all. But.

So I started doing sauna, which was is a replacement as far as increasing blood flow. I became certified and holistic medicine, which was a lot about using nutrients of various kinds to optimize cellular health, that sort of thing. Did you learn any of that in medical school? Or was it all new education? Pretty much for you? Really? You think so? No, no. It's weird, you know, it's even worse now, I have to say that, you know, there was a little bit of nutritional education, but, it's even worse now.

They're learning drug protocols and medical protocols, and that's about it. It's just there's there's virtually no emphasis on that. And, you know, we, you know, in conventional medicine, we do a good job at acute intervention. And but management of chronic chronic illness, we fail miserably. And it's because we are just treating the symptoms of the illness. Instead of actual the actual problem. But so I went off and I became certified and holistic medicine. But that didn't really tap me into herbal therapy and I wasn't getting completely well.

And I happened upon an herbal protocol for chronic Lyme disease. By then I thought, you know, chronically Lyme disease is the answer. But I taken several rounds of antibiotics and it just wrecked my gut and didn't make me well. So I was pretty desperate, quite frankly. And I happened upon this protocol. It wasn't herbs you would find in a health food store, but I researched the herbs and found that, you know, they all had antimicrobial properties. And the potential for harm was very, very low. The cost was low.

And at that point, you know, I had read about people getting IV the antibiotics with Lyme doctors and all that sort of thing, and I just was in a place in life where I couldn't go and do those things. I had restarted, primary care practice. I was obligated to that practice, but still financially strapped from all of this transition. So I had to do something that I could do where I was. And I started this herbal protocol, taking handfuls of herbal extracts, with low expectation. And now, you know, I, I, I was aware of herbs.

I thought there's just weak versions of drugs. They're not going to do much. So. But I thought what I got to lose. Might as well, let's try this thing. And. And what I'd read suggested some good science behind these herbs. So it's like, yeah, let's give it a try. I got, well, pretty I noticed the difference within three months. It took me five years to completely sort everything out and get rid of every single symptom. But I got, well, but, but over the first three months, I noticed some pretty significant benefit right in the beginning.

And so I felt like I was on to something, but I kept having the expectation that it would wreck my gut like antibiotics, you know, if it was actually killing bacteria within my system, it was going to wreck my gut and cause all the other problems. It didn't. My gut got better. And you know that was pretty fascinating. And it was helping out so many other things in my life. You know, earlier in life, I'd been diagnosed with essential hypertension and just had all kinds of issues. All of them started getting better, everything got better.

And it was so, you know, the past 20 years, I've devoted my life to understanding this and understanding why herbal therapy was such an important component of this whole thing and how I got my life back with it. Yeah. How did how did the herbs. First off, I want to know what herbs in particular you find to be the most helpful. And then also, what is the difference between using herbal remedies versus using medications? Like what? Can you can you kind of differentiate there. Yeah, it's apples and oranges.

And again, I think I had the impression that herbs were just weak versions of drugs. And I think a lot of people feel that way and they have less faith in the IRBs. And I've really come to understand that they're two completely different things. And when you change your expectations for or what for herbal therapy, you get better results because you manage them differently. You use them differently. And here, you know, when we start to say that thing, herbal therapy, we're herbs. We're talking about everything from plants that we eat as food and medicinal and culinary herbs all the way to, plants that have strong drug like properties or that would even be defined as poisonous, that have historically been used in different points in oral medicine, but aren't used very much anymore.

So what I was using is herbs that had specific properties, more in the class of adaptogens of reducing stress and, and optimizing health. So, but really getting down to what's happening with an herb, what we're doing with Europe is borrowing the plants, defense properties. Basically. So plants are multi-cellular, plants are connecting itself from other microbes in the environment from the sun, excessive heat, excessive cold, all the different geographical stressors. So it produces different compounds to protect itself.

And basically when we're consuming them, those compounds are conferring those resilience factors to us. Right. Because resilience your ability to adapt to stress. So we're becoming more cellular, more resilient from a cellular perspective when we're taking on, you know, the properties found in those herbs. Exactly. You know, it's that the plant is has to protect itself from microbes and all these other stress factors and plants. You're using a cellular defense system as opposed to, or a chemical defense system, as opposed to our cellular defense system, our immune system.

So it's it's like the equivalent of a chemical immune system from the plant. So we're using that. And it isn't like an antibiotic that is one single ingredient or one single compound. It's a spectrum of hundreds or even thousands of different chemicals that work together in a system that has a certain intelligence about it. So the antimicrobial properties that you get from herbs are broad spectrum. It covers bacteria, protozoa, yeast, viruses, but it is selective for pathogens. It doesn't disrupt normal flora.

I've actually found studies that, have documented this. So it's really fascinating that when we take an herb, we're getting these antimicrobial properties, that are very effective for these reactivated microbes that are, that we have in our system. But it doesn't stop there. The, the herbs also have immune modulating properties. They're balancing immune system functions. They're protecting ourselves from free radicals, from toxic substances, from radiation, natural radiation. So all of these factors that are stressing our cells, the herbs are protecting.

So it's like a cellular protective system. But the the the herb also includes other chemicals that are regulatory. So plants are multicellular organisms. They have to, change their functions from, from night to day, from different seasons. And they're using chemical messengers that are very similar to the chemical messengers that our body uses. So when we take adaptogens, we're taking regulatory chemicals that often help balance stress hormones and do other things in our body.

Restore 180 and a Staged Recovery Approach 26:18

Some are stimulating, though. It's like caffeine is a chemical that, different plants use and it's stimulating. Does I'm tending to stay with adapt the genes or plants that have more calming or normalizing properties and also optimizing their antimicrobial properties. So you ask about a few of the herbs. I mean, they're there are a long list of things that are great, but there are certain things that we've looked at very specifically for microbes like associated with Lyme disease. And a few of my favorites, that have been well studied are Japanese knotweed, Chinese skullcap, cat's claw.

Another favorite is and or graph is garlic is really good. Ginger is good. And these have been studied by Johns Hopkins University. There was a series of studies that showed these particular herbs worked as well as antibiotics against Borrelia, Bartonella, the beziers, some of the top things we find in Lyme disease. But interestingly, they also have good reactivity against influenza viruses, against the SARS virus associated with Covid. So that broad spectrum action that you get with an IRB is really fantastic.

Now some herbs are going to have better antimicrobial properties than others. It really depends on the microbe stress and the plants native environment. So we use so that what we might use a plant for depends on the kind of stress it is dealing with. You probably know rhodiola, which is a wonderful adaptogen. It's native to Siberia, and it's really great for helping us to adapt to physical stresses. And it has some antimicrobial properties, but not too much microbe stress in Siberia in that cold climate.

So it's a it's not that great of an down microbial where a cat's claws from the Amazon, a warm, moist environment where there's a lot of microbe stress. And it's a really robust anatomic, jovial herb. So these things are there for us. And the the penalty for using them is so low and the cost is so low. We're just crazy not to take advantage of them. Yeah. So basically where it's growing obviously is going to play a big role with its overall beneficial factors and how it benefits us. And then also, you know, not only location where it's growing, but wild herbs obviously are going to have more stressors than something grown in a greenhouse.

Right? Something that's kind of less exposed to environmental stressors. I think that's a good point and a good observation that a lot of people don't think about. You know, our food plants, we grow to produce calories and we grow them under controlled situations where we're decreasing stress. So our food plants are really poor sources of these protective phytochemicals. Our food plants don't know how to protect themselves anymore, which is why we have to use so much pesticide and herbicide. So our herbs are actually grown.

And while conditions they're not, grown to produce calories or nutrients. So, you know, that wild state, can actually give some pretty robust protection when we use them. It is a little bit different industry, though. And over the years I've really gotten to know the industry well. So there's no doubt that things from the wild are going to have robust protective properties. But but it's hard. You know, if we were going to supply everybody in the world with wild herbs, we'd really be struggling to do that.

We would, we would really, destroy the resource pretty quickly. So we do rely on cultivated herbs, but the cultivation process is different. You know, they're not they're they're growing it in a way to actually accentuate those wild properties so we can get the full protective value from the Europe. So so we're approaching growing herbs very differently than how we approach growing our food plants. Yeah, that makes a lot of sense. And I know with your restore 180 program, you've developed kind of a holistic protocol and advanced herbal protocol.

Can you tell us more about that? Oh, sure. You know, we, I've been doing this, I guess about, oh, about a decade and a half. It started in my office. This was like 15 years ago. I was incorporating herbs into my private practice, and I wanted my patients to have the best that we could get. And I was just really having a hard time finding decent products. And I did something that is really hard to do now. I got a manufacturer to do small runs of, like a couple hundred bottles just for my patients to my specifications, and I learned the supply chain, and I was actually ordering the different extracts, from different places and having them sent to this manufacturer.

And they were doing these small runs for me, how I talked to them into that, I don't know. But I did that for several years, and my daughter joined me and we decided to build it into a company, which we gradually did. And, eventually we started building out herbal protocols to serve people with chronic Lyme and other chronic illnesses. But along the way, I realized people need education. They need to know about the herbs. They need to know, you know, what's going on. So I did a lot of writing, books and email series to provide education and support.

But we've come to appreciate that. Know when you look at this complex thing called chronic illness, you have to unravel it in stages. So for the past year, we've put, an enormous amount of effort into creating something that we call restore 180. It's a six month program that we started out in stages. So part of that cellular distress of chronic illness is that overactive sympathetic nervous system, the decreased, vagal tone and just the body's own fire, and that you with your body in alert mode, it shuts down sleep, it shuts down your gut, it shuts down detoxification.

And we realized we have to fix that first. So using combinations of herbs and other kinds of brain retraining kind of exercises, we spent a couple of months just bringing people down to a different level so we can open the door to healing. We start out with a very basic herbal tincture that people can tolerate easily, and that's all they do for the first couple of months is cellular support, basic introductory microbe anti-microbial support, and then the herbal support just to calm that overactive nervous system with ashwagandha and other calming herbs.

And then the second phase of it, we move into gut restoring gut function, detoxification, getting everything flowing in the body again. And then finally in the last two months, we get to really getting aggressive with controlling that, that overactive microbe, restoring more normal immune system function, and restoring cellular health to get the person in really a totally different place of understanding their illness and understanding what they have to do to get better, get well. Because as you know, so much of overcoming chronic illness is what the person does, not what somebody else does to them.

Lifestyle, Hope, and Closing Thoughts 34:18

And you know, the more that we can teach people that the the better results we're going to have all the way around. Yeah, lifestyle is always 80% of it. And then the supplement protocol really gives you that extra nudge, right? That gets you over the hump. And so you got to combine, you know, you need when you're dealing with a complex chronic illness, you really need to combine both of them. But we can't I think a lot of people put too much hope in the supplements. Right. And like the things that they're taking and not enough emphasis on the actual lifestyle factors that are at the, you know, that that are the foundation.

Yeah. Yeah. Well, yeah, you said that word that I hear a lot more people using. And I'm really glad to hear complex chronic illnesses instead of all these individual labels. You know, you've got chronic Lyme and you've got fibromyalgia and you've got some autoimmune. You know, when I look at all of these things, all the margins start to blur because autoimmunity is occurring in all of them. To some degree. These microbes that we just see over and over again and chronic Lyme are showing up everywhere else.

And, you know, and and you know, what we define as, these co-infections, boy, my list of possible co-infections that somebody might have with chronic Lyme is like 50 to 100 microbes. But then if you put those in to, Google or ChatGPT and ask for the connections, to chronic illnesses, to these microbes, it just explodes. And you start to realize that that reactivation of microbes is really a core component, and that's driving the inflammation and the autoimmunity and everything else. So I think we are reaching, more of a universal model of what chronic illness is.

And everybody's a little bit different because we all pick up different microbes. We all tolerate different stress factors differently. And but it does bring it back to that, that just equation of cellular health. You know, you have to eat the right food. You have to clean up your environment and you have to get sleep. You have to move, you have to get blood flow going, and you have to have something to suppress the microbes. And that's the core. That's that's the real core of any recovery program.

And if you're not doing those things, then it's it's much less likely that you're actually going to get, well. Yeah. For sure. Well, guys, this has been a great interview. Check out Raul's md.com. And doctor Bill Rawls has some great books as well. Unlocking Lyme and the Cellular Wellness Solution. So check those out. And he has his restore 180 program, which is an advanced herbal protocol that has helped thousands of people at this point. You can check that out at Rawls, md.com. And also, his company, Vital Plan as well.

You can find out the information there. And, doctor Bill, any any last words of, of advice or inspiration for us here? Well, you know, I think it's, yeah, it's so much of everyone has the capacity to be healthy. And just my journey of 20 years ago, I didn't think I'd even be around at this point. I was sort of struggling. And I thought, if I if I do make it to my 60s, you know, my, my health is going to be so badly compromised his that life won't be worth living. And here I am at 67. I'm still kitesurfing.

My joints are great, my brain works great. My heart, is is is doing fine. I mean, I really have no significant health issues, and it's all just instead of focusing on treating the symptoms and manifestations of the illness is getting to the root causes. And that's the key to wellness. And I think anybody can work toward that goal and see significant improvement. Yeah. No doubt about it. Well thank you so much for this time. And it's great interview guys. Again check out Ralls md.com to see everything.

See the restore 180 program and everything doctor Bill Rawls is working on. We'll see you all in a future interview. Be blessed everybody.