Revolutionizing Medicine with Remote Monitoring Technology

Introduction to TJ Anderson and Heads Up Health 0:00

Hey, everybody. One of my real good friends here today. Super special because, I was just, hanging out on his cookbook, which I'll introduce in a little bit. But this is TJ, TJ Anderson. He's a behavioral chain specialist. Bestselling author of the Art of Health Hacking. And then he's got this other really cool book called Kitchen Chemistry. That's designed for couples to really make some chemistry in the kitchen is mostly paleo, but I actually use it with my daughters as well, so it's kind of cool, but we're actually using it for.

Yeah, it's great. But the reason that TJ's on, is because he is part of this wonderful company called Heads Up Health, and he is. You're the director of engagement. Is that what it is? Yep. Sales and engagement. And a heads up. Yep. Director of sales engagements. So he's got pretty extensive, background in pace engagement, sustainable health, behavioral changes. And it makes it really easy for guys like me to try to figure out the root causes, but also using technology, because sometimes you are limited to what you can do, by your limitations in technology.

But, but it heads up health is it's got something that's pretty special that I actually haven't seen before on a lot of different companies. And it's not just about technology, but how it's actually implemented as well. So this sounds a little cryptic. So I'm really going to have to talk about that. The, the during this interview. So yeah, thanks for coming on. Thanks for taking the time out of your day to come on, I appreciate that. I'm honored to be here. I'm excited to jam with you. I know we both have lots of passion on these topics, and, it sounds like your audience does as well.

So excited to connect with them. Yeah. So, you know, as we, are, you know, as I'm supposed to say, as we exit the pandemic, but I don't think that's happening right now as we continue on into the pandemic. Obviously, you know, a lot of things have changed in the medical community. And, everyone, everyone is starting to talk about technology. So you see these companies come out with, you know, tracking Covid outcomes, tracking oxygen saturations, remote patient monitoring. But this is something that's been in your space even before the pandemic, right?

Yeah. So our organization heads up Health Arcom or heads up for short. We're all about, organizing and analyzing data all in the same place. And so we actually started direct to consumer back in 2016. I had the honor of interviewing our founder, Dave Kazansky, on my own podcast, about two and a half years ago prior to joining the team. And he explained it as an electronic health record for the individual, except it's simple, sleek and sexy. And so that really caught my attention. I had just finished writing my book all about how the individual can truly take their health into their own hands and become a health hacker.

So I fell in love with the platform first. Personally, like a lot of people do. And then right before the pandemic, or before Covid came out, we had launched B2B. So we launched, and, early 2020, to help practitioners, coaches, patient facing health professionals get access to their clients or patients data all in the same place. So, that's, that's our origin story.

From Direct-to-Consumer to Practitioner Platform 3:34

Started direct to consumer and then pivoted, to go into the, practitioner space. So that's pretty unique because there's a lot of companies that I talk to, originated with the B2B format, which is their marketing to physicians or practices or medical systems. To monitors data. So what I'm super curious about, what what did you really see? How how were people adopting technology on their own outside of, doctors studying? How how has that been done? Yeah. Good question. So typically you could maybe put them into a couple buckets.

Right. You've got your, you know, your fitness crowd, your biohacker crowd, your, your your, wellness warrior crowd. Right? Kind of all in one bucket. And then you got those that have maybe some conditions that they don't just want to manage, but they want to hack, they want to improve, and they want to use data, to really, improve those conditions and have better outcomes. So, you know, whether it's, connecting a glucometer or a Bluetooth scale to our platform or a number of wearables such as, you know, the aura ring, which I'm wearing right now in this interview, you know, it's it's taking control.

And, you know, a lot of it's the cutting edge people, but it's those that also, need, more, more guidance and more, insight into their own health beyond the four walls of a doctor's office. And so that's what we've really seen. So we've, you know, a lot of glucose data, a lot of ketone data. You know, one of our early partners was a device called the ketone mojo, blood glucose and blood ketone data. So, yeah, we have a lot of keto diet experimenters, a lot of biohackers at first, but it's opened up since then.

Yeah. So, but you guys decided to go to the B2B market, which is, marketing to practices and stuff like that. How do you see practices adopt onto a platform like this? Before you answer that, I'm going to have you compare. Okay. So, I've talked to a bazillion companies, Brazilians, probably not the right number, at least 14, at least 15 companies that looked at wearable tracking right. There's Apple and there's Withings and all this stuff and stuff like that. And there's major institutions like University of Pennsylvania and Austin are looking at vital statistics.

So vitals meaning like blood pressure rates, heart rate, oxygen saturation and stuff like that. So the idea is you start from what? Kind of like a population health side? And then, earlier in, in 2000, in the 2018 beginning of 2019, there's, these reimbursable codes that came out for remote patient monitoring. Well, Medicare at first now is other commercial private companies. So remote patient monitoring has been out for a couple of years. And so what remote patient monitoring is, is monitoring these specific vitals.

And then when the pandemic hit and it's like someone pour gasoline on a fire and all of a sudden you have, a lot of remote patient monitoring companies coming out, but none that I know of. I could be wrong. I've really come from the direct to consumer space. So one of the topics on this summit is providing, a tremendous amount of value over delivery to our consumer, which are patients. Right. And so that's why I'm having you on. But let's talk about the the monitoring here. What like you talked about the Biohacker crowd.

And there's people that just want more data to and to to to know their outcomes for what is it about this technology that's going to make it attractive? On the doctor side, okay. To interact with the patient, what do you think specifically, based on what you've seen in the direct consumer space? Good question. So what about us is uniquely valuable to practitioners? Yeah, yeah. Well, so one of the guiding principles we have is that we're about bringing in the most important health data on at the same place.

So what that means is we're device agnostic, we're lab testing company agnostic. If you have, you're going to define what that means. And yeah. So meaning we are we we're open to partnering and we have partner. We have 17 direct integration partners for lifestyle data.

Why Practitioners Need Unified Health Data 8:12

As opposed to oh, here are the here's the one pulse oximeter you can use here. Here's the one scale you can use. Or here's the one glucometer you can use. Oh, I said we partner with the best of the best companies who are out there and allow the practices to choose what data and what devices are most important to them. And, and then we can build and tailor the experience so that it's customized and personalized to their patients. But we're going beyond just vitals, right? You're wearing an aura ring which tracking right.

That's one of the examples, right? Yes. What are some other things that you guys integrate with that? A lot of companies don't sure thing. Yeah. So well, I think a couple, you know, things that kind of, hit on there are important differentiators, you know, it's not just light. It's it's vital sign data. It's lifestyle data. It's also clinical lab testing data. And it's not just housing that lab testing data in a PDF format, but it's digitizing that and structuring it, just like we do on the vital signs side.

And then we have analytics features, on our platform. So we were born as like personal health analytics. So we have the ability to allow an individual or a practitioner or coach anyone on that care team to run a report on clients progress. So using our system today, you can analyze any data point over any time period and track and see how data points are trending over time. So we allow you to compare time periods to each other and create these like really simple yet beautiful, like valuable, powerfully engaging reports that help tighten the feedback loop on where your clients are going.

So, it's not just like, oh, let's see who. Let's see what chronic disease patients are out of range. Like we have those features to track typical RPM. And we support a lot of practices with using our system for RPM. But it's also about how do we optimize health outcomes. So one of the big reasons we pivoted B2B is we asked ourselves, how can we make more of a difference in the world, beyond just direct to consumer? And who are the types of practitioners? If we thought about going that route, would we want to work with.

So our niche is supporting root cause clinical practices with, leveraging the power of technology without letting overwhelm the staff or patients. And that's an important point. A lot of people, when they, like you said, all these companies are coming out with all this tech and as the innovation curve goes faster and faster, gets steeper and steeper, and overwhelm can happen to lots of practices. So one of my roles that I'm really passionate about is like, let's slow things down. Let's define like what success looks like.

Let's look at the business model and determine, you know, what makes the most sense. And so that's that's guided us towards partnering with clinical practices to deploy our system in a way that is both engaging for the client. You can use that as a remote health monitoring platform as well. But it's really all about creating better outcomes at scale. It's like personalized data driven outcomes at scale. I hope that's helpful. It is. It is because, I mean, there's another company that that is on the summit here.

It's called outcome. And so that one is really talking about, digitalizing, pro data, which is patient report outcomes, how patient dose protocol, medication regimens, surgery, etc., etc.. So this is sort of the other side to it, which is you have I guess wearable devices or even non wearable devices, but devices in general, plus lab lab integrations too. Right. And then have those outcomes. And I guess you can make a custom report based on whatever it is you want to see. Is that correct? Exactly.

Yeah. So when I'm talking to a practitioners, like what types of clients are you working with and what data is most important to you? Right. Both on the lifestyle side and the clinical side. So we do have direct integrations with labs, but we also have, you know, bulk CSV upload to upload as many biomarkers on as many patients all at the same time. And so we're all about streamlining, streamlining the organization of the data for the individual and the practitioner to have it all in the same place so that you've got better insights.

And you can then use our analytics features to truly track trends. And what we're finding is that this truly tightens the feedback loop on the client's experience, and the client becomes more engaged and motivated. So we like to say there's four different types of data on the lifestyle side. So we're known for our dashboard. And if anyone wants to check us out. So it's heads up health.com heads up health.com. Anyone can create a free account and kind of play around with it. And where I'm helping practices is first understand their model and and then that can influence how you deliver a system like ours.

You know I, I've led a presentation called the cash pay way. Right. All about how you leverage a remote health monitoring system like ours in a way that helps to, you know, support the bottom line. And what does that look like? Because change management in the practices is pretty difficult. You probably have a lot of experience with that. So the four different types of data on the dashboard is the way we look at is metabolic health data, sleep movement and recovery data, vital signs and body composition.

That's kind of how I've grouped it in those four categories. And so, you know, we have direct integrations with CGM companies such as Dexcom and Freestyle Libre. So continuous glucose monitoring data keto mojo for glucometer biosensor breath ketone acetone and then online nutrition apps. But then we also bring the wearable data in from like an Apple Watch or an oral ring or, you know, a Garmin. And then of course, like, like blood, Bluetooth blood pressure data and scale data. And what we're finding is the client, the practices that roll this out properly, the client engagement is skyrocketing, patient engagement, skyrocketing churn rate and cancellation rates are going down.

And the top practices that like, really integrate this and and not just not just recommend devices, but actually include devices in their offerings, that's the game changer. So I want to kind of highlight that. I don't know if you can relate it with your practice, but, you know, instead of having your clients have your patients have to like,

Device Integration, Labs, and Analytics 15:00

choose what device they want and like, buy it separately, why not include it in a bundle program so that they just have to say yes to one thing, your program and then everything else is streamlined. So that's kind of, gives a glimpse into how, you know, we suggest you explore rolling it out in a practice. Yeah. So this is great because, you know, I think you technology is really changing the way we practice medicine, right? I don't I mean, the practice of medicine hasn't really stepped outside of the one on one physician or practitioner visit in a long time.

Well, ever until very recently. Right. And then, of course, you have the global pandemic and telemedicine became like our thing. And it became a thing that because doctors were were adopting the platform is because patients now expect it. I think, this year and that it's you see it everywhere. So the market's moving in that direction. But where the market's moving next. You're absolutely right. Is going to be devices and outcome data based on these tracking mechanisms that allows the patients to be in the conversation.

Right. And so there's going to be a lot of docs who's listening to me right now, listening to us right now and thinking about how, how am I going to make a business out of it. Right. So, let's let's talk about that for a second. You know, in terms of the business of medicine. So, for example, in our practice, you know, we don't have a subscription, we're not a concierge practice. We're of a traditional practice. So we use wearable devices and we, track long term outcomes for, for, for different labs and stuff.

But you're right, it's not all in one place. What strikes me nuts. And, and in most electronic medical record systems, you can do what's called a fellowship, but you can't do a population fellowship. And and you, it's really hard to publish on something like that. So, and we like to publish because we want to know what we're doing is actually working for the patient. Right. And so, so that's the value behind it. But from the, those type of, from the business side, the where I see this obviously is remote patient monitoring and chronic care, chronic care management.

But you just said earlier is that some people put it as I guess, a package that people kind of buy into you to, to access this. How does that work in some companies. Yeah. Good. Really good question. So typically that's for, a cash pay practice that might have like a bundled program, for, you know, 1500 or 2000 on up for, you know, a three month thing, with some testing, some consults, maybe some coaching and some educational content. But to take that sort of package, you know, maybe some of your listeners have a bunch of programs similar to that, but like to take that to the next level and differentiate, adding not just our platform and all the features and the benefits that come with using our platform with the patient, but also the, the devices.

What that's going to do is allow a practice to stack more value, increase their prices and differentiate themselves compared to other practices. And that's going to be one of the most important things for a private practice owner to do as they evolve and want to grow is ask themselves, how can they differentiate themselves and how can they add more value. And one of a one of our clients is actually tell me the other day is like, you know, my patients are now, like I mentioned, this to me is like every, every time they're using their aura ring or every time they're stepping on their scale or using their, you know, keto mojo device that integrates with heads up because they included that device in their offering, the patients are subconsciously thinking about the practice and the doctor and their experience.

Overall. Each time they use that device on a not just weekly basis, but a daily basis. And that is, allowing that patient to feel more confident in their team. That and the approach that they're that they're following. And it's going to help them stay patients for longer and, less cancellation rate. So that's that's typically like, you know, the, the model for a cash pay practice bundle program and then into a membership model. But for the RPM, the insurance practices of the world that want to explore, like you said, the remote patient monitoring the RPM codes that exists for reimbursable, codes, through CMS is using our system as well and deploying devices.

And it's, so we have a process and a flow for that, of course, of like, you know, who's eligible inside of your your patient group. You know what what the the key thing is to really make sure you're choosing the right devices, and quality devices. And that's one of the downfalls of a lot of other, RPM platforms, frankly, is that they're, you know, devices and, the other side of the world that were made cheaply and all about margin and not about quality data. And that's a big risk for practices. Practices need to manage that risk by doing their due diligence and kind of very now all the devices to choose from.

So we do for our RPM side, we integrate with devices that bring in RPM or reimbursable data. So blood glucose from keto mojo Libra and Dexcom for CMS. Right. But then Withings we integrate with Withings for blood pressure data, Bluetooth scale, data, heart rate and eye health. Eye Health Labs is another company we integrate with. Apple watch is now being talked more and more about a device that could be reimbursable through RPM. And we actually have one of the best Apple health integrations. Shout out to my tech team.

It's our third version. Took us a year to build and it just auto pulls in the background. It's really sleek and the really the reason that's valuable here. Apple Health. If we don't have a direct integration with the device a company wants us to use, and that device integrates with Apple Watch or Apple Health Kit, and your patients have Apple Health. We can pull in the data for an Apple Health kit. So, you know, we're currently vetting out some of the top clinically validated, you know, blood pressure cuff companies.

And we're we're helping our our clients, our practice clients make the decision of our what devices are going to make the most sense. How are we going to deploy them to our patients? What's that model going to look like. And and that fact and of course, what's the margin look like? What's the overall, you know, expense to, to bring on in a program like this and what are the expected revenue outcomes? And, and so because it's got to make financial sense. Right. And so, so yeah, yeah, that's, that's kind of our, our flow there and the, the insurance side.

So for those of people who are listening who's never done remote patient

Business Models for Cash Pay and RPM Practices 22:00

watching before, one of the downsides of adopting things early, like, like us is that you get experience, sort of all the pain points first. But you know what TJ kind of said, what you said about, you know, devices that are made that break and mean that tech support can kill a medical practice, like, no joke. The the amount of full time employee time that's spent on that can be very devastating. You know, we have been on our first platform for, for this specific reason because one remote patient wanting first came out, it was like the wild, wild West, you know, people were I think outsourcing or actually white labeling devices, from overseas, that were, you know, some of the instructions weren't even in English and stuff like that.

And then people got a little smarter and start looking at devices made in the US, but those still had the tech, issues, as well. And so what? So you're saying, you know, device agnostic, which means that, you know, if heads of health can, can, interfere with multiple devices and can also piggyback on something like Apple, Apple health and my little watch. Right here. Yeah, we're actually getting good quality data that's already has had quality control by the parent companies. That's what makes it work.

Right. So, so you talked about the Cassidy practice a little bit. Let me talk about insurance based practices a little bit. And then I think that there's, really good value for the hybrid practices, like those people who are doing, hybrid insurance and suspicion based and direct primary care and stuff like that, and, and other in the concierge type with insurance hybrids. That is a very, very, common thing these days becoming more common. I think it's a great way to go for most practices. So, the, the, the most famous company, to do this, and I don't want to name names right there, but what they, what they do, is that they charge a fee for a sort of, executive wellness, if you will, once a year.

Right. And that fee could be, you know, $2,500. There's $100, depending on what it is. And then, they have access to their physicians, but they also bill medical insurance. Right. And so I think that practices like those can have sort of different tiers and then also integrating with so the like wholesale health to look at the data and then can still can run those hybrids. The caveat being a is if you're a medic or take CMS, insurance, then you can't bill for things that CMS already covers. And so the good news is CMS doesn't necessarily cover an offering or a module and stuff like that.

Right. So so there's ways to kind of divvy that out. And that's where the, the awesome part is, is because that kind of allows, our creative juices, to, to sort of do the things that we want. And, you know, that's that's why I love having you on talking about this. So thank you. Yeah. You bet. And I think it's, it's important because, like you said, the RPM world was the wild, wild West, and some might still say it is, and, still is, and, and so because of that, you know, we've, we've actually been really mindful and intentional about how we go into that space.

And so we're vetting and looking at other direct companies to integrate with. And we will be coming out with more, clinically validated, highly respected, RPM device companies, best of the best out there to integrate. And, and so we're going to, one of the thing I didn't mention is like the dropshipping, for instance, like, how do you get the clients devices like we're vetting? We're yeah, we're doing all of that. You know, of course some practices might want some devices in clinic, but also shipping direct.

There's one other thing I really want to touch on here. In terms of the business model you talk about, like the hybrid, right. The membership model group and the different tiers. I, I'm glad you touched on that. A lot of our practices do have that that model that that whether it's DPC or concierge high end. And it's either, you know, an annual or, you know, monthly monthly model. And, and you can easily have different tiers and you can easily, you know, for instance, you could include heads up on its own and maybe a group model for a lower tier.

And then on a higher tier, you include private training and coaching and guidance and consultation around your data. So we're consulting with our practices on how they roll this out and position it in the right way, because we don't want to. We're we're not just selling a software company and and you know, have it be shelf where we want it to be valuable and actually benefiting everyone involved. So within that so because of that, we are also in the process of guiding our practices on potentially how to include proper team members to use our system.

Right. And so the health coaching of coaches of the world and care coordinators and other patient facing health professionals. So when you think about using a system like this, it's don't think about like, oh, I don't have the time to do this. It's like, you know, begin with the end in mind. Like, who can you bring to the table? What, what, what type of experience you want to create for your patients? And is there an ideal type of, team member that you could bring on? And maybe you can attest to this a little bit to the power of health coaching type roles.

Any patient facing health professional trained as a health coach that leans in and communicates with each client and patient, you know, every week and, and has calls and checks in on their data and reminds them and so that's what we're building our system for is to think of it, it, you know, is it really like a collaborative care platform all focused on health optimization, health outcomes, better health outcomes? Yeah, that's that's very powerful because there's other people that are interviewed for the summit that's focusing on exactly this.

And we have Harvard and UCSD talking about their integrative health coaching platforms. Reach out to communities. There's there's practices in New York that has over, a million trackable outcomes over this last year for for the pandemic. And, it's all health coach derived. And then in, in April 1st, 2021, there's a new taxonomy that's put out by center for Medicare Medicaid Services, and that taxonomy is health coaching. So there's now now it's I guess it's, it's it's sort of a subspecialty within, within within, the the, non physician qualified health care professionals designation.

So now we're, we're entering this era where a lot has changed on, on the federal side and that, stuff like this, can be executed by health coaching and can be utilized within CMS, within Medicare Medicaid Services and within Tricare, military insurance and stuff like that. So, I mean, this is, I mean, if you're listening to this on a summit, it's one of the first places that you can here's talk about this, because by I think by two years from now, this is going to be more commonplace using digital data and utilizing good quality digital data, like like we didn't do in the very beginning.

But to also improve the user experience, improve our patient experience, and improve the value that we as physicians can, can deliver to our patients. Right. And so, so that's something I really appreciate. But there's also going to be people that are naysayers. So I'm going to put out maybe a couple of points. So the first one is, if your own and so the fear of the what I didn't oh, the fear of the unknown. The fear of the unknown. Yeah. So the fear of the unknown is, oh my gosh, I'm going to get this data.

And, how am I going to be able to sort of keep up with this data or what I necessarily do with this data? Right. Now even onboarding practices, for a while. So what has your experience in that onboarding, process? Because I'm sure they ask you that question. Yeah, yeah. You bet. I would so someone's fear of the unknown or unsure of how something works, I first thing I would say is like, get your feet wet. Like, play around, like, start connecting your own data, using it. Use it as, as if you were wanting to build your own electronic health record of your own health data. So.

So that's kind of, how I'd first start with that. But then the second point is, like I mentioned, how every client of ours, we customize the platform, so we tailor

Health Coaching, Workflow, and Team Roles 31:00

the dashboard and can build a default customized dashboard for all clients that you can then customize at the patient level. So it is is highly, highly personalized. And you can make it as simple or as complex as you want it to be. So if someone is maybe, leaning on the side of overwhelm, then we would definitely focus on simplicity. What are the top lifestyle metrics? Maybe the top ten top maybe. Maybe even less. And and what are the top labs that, that you run on patients and let's scope that out.

Let's build let's build a pilot for you to maybe experiment with a handful of patients. And oh, and maybe also ask your team, you know, I think I think those that are overwhelmed, it's combination of like, understanding, like what exactly will this take from like time? My energy, money and and energy and effort overall. But then like, who else on your team can you bring to the table to really help. Right. And I think probably often times practice owners might get a little, overwhelmed because they think they need to be the ones that do everything right, as opposed to learning how to scale and outsource and bring on team members and, you know, delegate.

Frankly, for this to be actually a part of someone's role and, and, you know, as, as the innovation you spoke to of where health coaches are now being recognized more and more in that health care arena. That's, that's going to guide then as innovation happens there, it's going to cause innovation in the practices to have to innovate in their actual, their actual, job description for their practice for, for the people on their team. It really comes down to that, right, is like, how do you equate this in a way that, you know, you have a clear person on the team that's accountable to taking ownership of this?

So it might be you and it might as the solo owner or might be it another team member. So that's what I would say. That's a great point because we touched on everything being single thing that you just said on this on the summit. So you guys listen to the rest of the summit because we can talk about workflow, how to create a structure, how to not micromanage, how to not under manage, and all this stuff like that. So it's sort of a perfect topic for this will be covered in, in other chapters, if you will, within the summit.

But you're right, uncertainty requires simplicity to start. And I think that depending on, on some people's personality, like, I just want to do everything all at once. This is so cool. And then you realize, oh my God, what what am I doing? And so, yeah, simplicity, is great. And complexity can be. One more thing to add is. Yeah, also tying it back to like what are the motivations of the practice owner. Why did you start the practice? Why are you in business? Why why do you do what you do and and then why why might you be interested in the power of, of a health data platform or remote monitoring platform?

What the why might you be interested? And then understanding those reasons and then unpacking those. Right. It's like behavior change science like the health coaching me, which I'm trained as. And I lead training for a health coach training. Organization before. And it's it's just powerful magic to use is is you you tap into your own internal motivations and understand why it's important and how to build confidence. Right? So, that's, that's what I would also come back to is maybe practice some self coaching.

Each doctor can self coach themselves. Yeah. Let's going back to the principles of sort of empowerment I think that, you know for the people who were on the summit, we're all or we're all looking for something right. And maybe that, that, that the juice has been lost, if you will, that originally drove us. And it's because the complexity of medicine has not been the best. And what was promised out of training, medical school, residency, fellowship training. Specialty training is not what we see.

And especially since not since it's pandemic. Right. And I think we're also in this cancel culture where, you know, a lot of people who are who are experts are not really experts. And that creates sort of this, this very interesting dynamic where, providing value is a lot more difficult. You know, you can't just put your services on a website, expect people to, to come in on it. You have to really describe what you're trying to get at. And so that's where you're you're right that hey why why did you get into the practice medicine. Right.

What did it happen in the first place? Why why did you do the things you do. And then get on the extreme amount of debt to get to where you are? And then why is it that you're here and, and doing this? And could these technology, technological platforms be the answer for you? And it's something that encourage everyone to kind of explore, open themselves, just close your eyes and meditate within yourselves to really explore, because that's what's really needed to reduce burnout. And although this is an automation summit, I mean, the main goal of this, some of that is to reduce burnout amongst private practice physicians.

You know, so, you know, that's that's great. I'm going to kind of switch gears a little bit, sort of, sort of, something that is purely what you perceive to be okay. Not necessarily heads of health, but what. Sure. Yeah. So, you've been in the space and talking to a lot of practitioners. What have you seen are the biggest fears since the pandemic started working with these practitioners? What are what are what are they fearing the most at this point? What are practitioners fearing the most at this point?

It's a good question. You know, some, some might say that, You know, they might have fear of getting started, honestly, with something new, because they might think they need to do XYZ first. Right? Yeah. That freezes, people. Right? Yeah, yeah. And, and and of course, sometimes, of course, that that could be important to, to follow a certain sequence of, of things. But well one that's, that's true until the sequence no longer serves you right. Right. So I think where you're kind of alluding to is that people don't want to get started because whatever sequence they were doing, like, isn't really working anymore.

Or maybe it's working, but it's not satisfactory. Right? Right. Well, one other thing they might also fear. Yeah, this is always the deep one is like, fear of success, right? They, they they fear of like, oh, whoa, what what will happen if if I don't have to, like, you know, be the one doing everything in the practice anymore? What, like what will happen if I no longer have, you know, any financial stress or any more debt? Like, what am I going to do that like? Or, you know, how do I handle a successful business?

Overcoming Fear, Burnout, and Embracing Change 38:30

How do I like once I get successful in scale? Like that's when the real stress happens. And, you know, so creating stories around fear of of success, not just fear of failure, you know, it's both sides and and so I just, you know, invite those that might have similar feelings to explore those and, and and just take small action. Take small action and and be really, really powerful with your word. Say yes to the things that are hell yes for you and say no to the things that are hell nose and to practice, you know, sourcing decision and choice.

You know, from embodiment, right? From not just the mind, but like the body, the heart, the gut. And let that play a role in guiding the future, the practice more. Now, that's that's a beautiful statement. You know, I think that's the art of essentialism, right? You know, essentialist. And then really focusing on what's truly essential to you as a practitioner, and sort of cutting loose and taking away things that may not be essential or maybe it was essential a few months ago or a year ago, but it's no longer essential now.

And then you kind of feel almost guilty letting go. I mean, those are the things that take away opportunities and what's causing sort of this fear of success, like you said. Right. And I'm going to talk about, one, one, one factor that, that I see a lot of older physicians. So, there's a period where we're trying to acquire some practices, and then we were talking to physicians who are who are retiring, and every single one of them held off on retiring for years because they don't want to let their staff down, you know, or to, I mean, they don't want to let their patients down.

I mean, gosh, this is my mom right now actually thinking about it. They don't want to, they want they have the identity of being the hero. But at the same time, they're really missing things, missing out things in life. But because maybe because some parts of what they do haven't necessarily been automated. And that's what this conference is all about. So anyways, I asked you that question because I think I knew I was going to say, just based on your book, the Art of Health Hacking. But that's the fear that I really want to address, in the people that, that are, that are really watching this.

And we get a little bit sentimental, but that's on purpose, is because, this is not talked about, you know, physicians and mental health is not talked about, this, but it's also underreported because of, fear of losing a medical license. Right. And then, fear of no longer in that, in the status of being a provider. So there's a lot of fear there. And so it's something I'm really passionate about. So, so thank you for, for that. And then the other question, yeah, yeah, yeah. The question on the end with for you is, let's, let's go back in time for a little bit, for you, let's say beginning of 2020, what did you wish you knew about your business that, you know, now, that could have made things a little bit easier for you in the beginning of 2020.

Yeah, yeah, that was easy. Helping practices nail the process, nail the business model of adding a solution like ours to the table. It's it's really, I think, it. Yeah, I just I for me personally, you know, I think I just evolved and grew and learned learned a lot from the practices that we were serving. And, you know, I wish I would have known, to, talk about the value of including devices in your offers, to really differentiate you and streamline the decision making of, you know, that then makes it easy to get data on the system.

They don't have to, you know, you buy one package and it gets everything. And then so that's that, that's that's that's a big one. I'd also say I, I wish I would have known like, how much fun it was going to be. You know, it's been a wild ride and it's been challenging, but the amount of impact, like, I would like, I didn't I didn't know about the sort of impact. And in, you know, we're helping practices evolve their business model. Like right in the middle of the pandemic. And you know, we're all innovating together, trying to quickly and efficiently and effectively as possible.

And and that wild ride is fun. It it is impactful and it is fulfilling. And I'm just, I'm grateful to have spent the last, two years with the organization getting to this point. And I'm excited for the next two years and beyond. No. That's awesome. That's that's valuable thing. Once you get into the nitty gritty things, you learn a lot, right? And then, allows practices moving forward to really benefit from that. And so, you guys, you want to try out, heads of health. The link is with this video, click on it, check it out, play around with it.

You know, don't don't hesitate. And then also make sure that you check out TJ, teach you how to how do people find you on on social media? You bet. So. Well, I I'm on few of the socials. Don't post a lot on the social. But I have my own podcast. I'm relaunching, is titled Health Hacker Life. Cool. And yeah, the book, both book, the book and the cookbook are on Amazon. And maybe by this time my website will be live. So health hacker Live.com will be my myself there. Yeah. And, we include those books in the, in the links with it as well.

So. Yeah. Thanks for coming on. It's been, it's been a great talk. And then, you know, the one thing I kind of want to leave you with, is that, so what you said kind of resonated with me about what you wish you knew is how much fun it would be, despite all the challenges. And I kind of experience the same thing in my practice. When we started really pivoting in March of 2020. And then how and then it's not just how much fun it is, is that I felt that we should accelerate it ten years into our operations.

And so and I feel like a lot of companies who didn't go bankrupt during, during the pandemic, who actually survived this deserve it. And because you learn so much from the experience, so much from from the changes, and I kind of invite, everyone who's listening to this to, to be open to some changes, to be open minded or everyone thinks a lot. Exactly. Yeah. So I appreciate that.