Rest: Your Remedy For Diabetes Management

Introduction to Rest and Blood Sugar 0:00

Hi, everyone. Welcome to the Reversing Type 2 Diabetes Summit. I'm your host, Dr. Beverly Yates, ND It's my distinct honor and privilege to interview Karen Brody, who is an expert on the importance and the significance of rest. I feel like in today's world hearing Cortisol Nation, we all need to be reminded about the power of the basics of rest and how it shows up in our lives and makes such a difference. Profound difference for our health. And if someone is struggling with blood sugar, the need to rest is really underscored and to get quality rest, restorative rest deep, meaningful rest.

So with that, I'd like to introduce you to our guests for this particular interview. Karen Brody is a mother. She's also a coach specifically for rest and the author of the book Daring to Rest. She founded the Daring to Rest Facilitated leadership Training and the rested community for women and has made a profound impact in the lives of all the people that she works with. She has over 30 years of experience in women's leadership, teaching and designing these workshops, program certification trainings and offers rest coaching.

She is deeply committed to supporting women to rise up, to be rested up, and to inspire a world of well rested people. Karen, welcome to the summit. Thank you so much for having me. I'm happy to be here. I'm delighted to interview you. I've been looking forward to this because I feel like this is one of those topics in the area of health that doesn't get anywhere near the amount of attention that it deserves. Will you please share with our audience what it is that motivates you? What drives you to do this work?

I think if we get a glimpse of that, we can really unlock how this ties directly to blood sugar issues. Absolutely. Yeah. Well, if there were PhDs in burnout, I got it. And they were just cycles of, you know, kind of realizing, Oh, I'm so burnt out, getting some help, going back into the same patterns, just not even knowing it sort of creeps up on you. I also struggled with panic attacks for years. My father had panic attacks. I just thought it was something my family had and I didn't even equate arrest with the answer to why I was getting panic all the time.

So, you know, my my motivation comes from that. I know the the the world is not so rested and we're pushed into productivity, toxic productivity cycles, the systems that we live in are not conducive to us resting. And still we have choice to live a rested life. And I think that we actually must, because it's radical, right?

Why Rest Matters and How Burnout Builds 2:53

If the systems are telling us don't rest well, then I actually think that kind of is the clue to rest. I agree with you. I agree with you certainly in the course of my own clinical work and my, you know, just lived experience as a woman, you know, the course of my life, when I think of the times when my own health was challenged or when I listen carefully to the back story of the people that I've worked with and then I've had that honor to serve, I can't help but notice how often people have been deprived of that basic human right to rest.

And then you hear this sequence, this spiral, a downward spiral, unfortunately, of health unwinding. What are your thoughts about this? Well, here's the thing. What I have seen from working with so many women is rest really is a remedy. The challenge is people get told to rest and we don't know how to rest. We don't know how to power our bodies down. We actually are really addicted to adrenaline. The cortisol levels are high and it's actually hard to come down from that high. It's like it's dopamine that's running through our system all the time and, you know, even down to, you know, bingeing on Netflix, which, you know, we've all done it.

It's not a bad thing. It's one of those things that if you realize it's been six months and all you're doing is staying up late, bingeing on these things, it's impacting your health and it's something that can easily go unnoticed and yet all you do is and I know it's hard in our world, but all you do is lie down, get some deep quality rest, and then start looking at the areas of your life that are rested and not so rested. And you start to see a picture of something that you can really begin to work on.

You can begin to sculpt arrested life when you open your eyes to it. And a lot of times it has to. It's like any heroine's journey or hero's journey. It has to take a challenge, a health challenge, for example, to wake us up and say, okay, I got to take this seriously because a little bit of rest was a really long way. Wow, that's just so profound. You know, I can just think about different points in the experiences that I hear people report so frequently where often a key issue around being able to do self-care, committing to it as well as having the resources to do self-care is often at the crux of the issues for Type 2 diabetes and pre-diabetes.

There's usually a way in which either people haven't taken charge of that or to be fair, they've been under-resourced and not able to do it. Sometimes people are bookended with caregiving or the responsibility of or service to others, whether they are members of our military, whether they are members of a community where maybe they are caring for elderly parents who are aging and perhaps starting to struggle. Maybe they're caring for younger children or adult children. Right. I keep hearing those themes with the people that I worked with for the men and for the women.

And I feel there's a way in which this shows up for women that might be a bit different than for men. But the bottom line is when people aren't rested, they aren't rested. So I love that you just said sculpting rest. Tell us more about how we can go about being really, truly, deeply rested. Well, you know, just like we do pros and cons, lists of you know, when we have a decision to make, just look at your life rested, not rested and and start really putting in the different areas of your life, the different things that follow your day and literally what you did that day and do a little log of what you did that day and put down is it rested, it feel rested?

Did it not feel rested? Did did my interaction with someone feel rested or not rested? That doesn't mean we're never going to we're not going to have unrest in things. You know, I would always say like even just being with family is advanced practice for us, right? There's a lot of triggers and and it could be in the office in your workplace as well. We are under-resourced. That's a reality. That's a reality for for many people. I would say, you know, way more than you know, it's 75% or more are under-resourced and that's a challenge.

Rest as a Remedy and the Need to Power Down 7:00

So there are challenges with rest. But you can start slowly. You can start literally by taking a few breaths every day that will actually begin to have your body begin to feel like, oh, this is a little different. And when you start to notice that rest is actually putting your body in that more sympathetic, you know, instead of the being in sympathetic dominance, you're in parasympathetic, which is a rest and digest mode in your nervous system. You'll start to notice and just just be curious about it.

Maybe breathe again when you get into your car. The different transition moments in our day are great times to have a deep breath when you get into your car, when you get to work before you eat every night. We always breathe in our household before we eat every night. And here's the thing we don't really even know what rest is. So that's again, to tell someone to rest is almost, you know, a little bit of a joke. And so and so we have to give people little ways in. And taking a breath is that first way.

And for a lot of people to stop, take a breath, the phone rings before you pick it up. Take a breath. That's a great reminder. Thank you. You know, I'm thinking when a baby is born, when they first enter this world and they come out of their mother's womb, what's the first thing they do? They inhale and they take a breath. That's right. And when we leave this life, when someone dies, what's the last thing they do? They take that final breath. It's that central. Okay. No, thank you. Yes, absolutely.

So as I consider what goes on for people with blood sugar problems. Right. Part of the journey often means that there's been a compromise and sometimes it's not an issue so much with nutrition, which obviously would be the bullseye, the target. We get it. Food matters hugely for blood sugar control, but it's not the only partner exercise. Sometimes people are exercising in a way that makes sense for them, but for whatever reason, the things they're doing around what they're eating and their movement is not enough.

So we have to bring in some other pieces you just talk about in your home, in your household, which I think is awesome. You guys make sure that you breathe before you eat. You know, people start to say grace, take the prayer, the breathing. It's intentional. You're inviting in nourishment, right? That's beautiful. So then let's unpack a little bit about what goes on with stress and with sleep problems, because those are the two things that I feel are underappreciated and how much they can completely hijack blood sugar, health and lead people to become sick chronically behind the scenes.

So when they show up later on with a diagnosis of pre-diabetes or type 2 diabetes, they are often shocked. They're like, How did this happen when it didn't happen in a day or even a week? This has been years in the making. What are some of the things you could suggest to help people recognize for themselves when they are in danger? And what would they experience that lets them know, Hey, I'm not really rested like I'm going to sleep every night, but I'm not rested. Yeah, thank you for that. And thank you for just pointing out the the, the importance of sleep, the importance all of these pieces.

I mean, if you're waking up tired, you most people are not going into deep sleep. You didn't get a good night's sleep. And there are reasons for that. Everyone's unique and what those reasons are. I'm not a sleep specialist necessarily, so I don't want to claim to be a sleep specialist. But in our 40 day during the US program, we always for several years we brought in a sleep specialist, Dr. Rubin Naiman, who actually is someone who he doesn't see people anymore, but he he is he doesn't see clients one on one, but he, he really has talked to our community about sleep and about going into deep sleep and how all the conditions need to be right.

A lot of times we just have this really uncomfortable relationship with night, you know? I mean, it's metaphoric call in a lot of ways. You know, we're always told the light is the good thing, the dark is the bad thing. So so there is this relationship. And if you just begin at night to start putting those light sources down before you go to bed, the, you know, melatonin, you literally it it blocks out the the the all the things that help you sleep if your lights are all on, if you are watching television all the time.

Again, I'm not saying you shouldn't watch anything, but

Breath, Nervous System Reset, and Daily Rest Practices 11:30

look at the time know when you're going to start to power down. That's the whole point about rest. It's powering down your system. We get these indicators by sun and you know, when when when it's daytime and the nighttime, it's dark. So we have to follow those rhythms more and pay attention to those rhythms. So some people will even watch the sunset and like not even turn the lights on in their house. And notice how their house just starts to go darker. And then they might turn on a soft light or something like that.

But everyone is is is different in terms of what they need. But I would say experiment it, really experiment with with befriending the night and, you know, your routine. I would say, you know, a lot of people, even just having a regular bedtime, can really help their adrenals. I see this all the time. I will literally tell women, you know, they'll say, I'm not sleeping, I'm not sleeping. And we actually, you know, we show them a practice yoga nidra which is a sleep based meditation practice. But if they're going to bed at midnight 1 a.m., that does mess with your with your blood sugar levels.

It messes with everything. And so these women, often they're around menopause, age. And I say, okay, let's try to get to bed before ten by ten the latest. And all of a sudden everything is literally resolved. We didn't have to they didn't have to go on anything for they everything's resolved, their blood sugar levels, all of that just by getting to bed by 10 p.m. So, you know, it matters your routines. You know, I would just say really, look at all of that. I think that's wonderful. Thank you for making that so clear.

One of the things I've noticed is when people start to struggle and unwind and the health starts to decline and they're not rested, not their sleep routines, often, if they weren't already chaotic, become chaotic. And so they don't have that regular go to bed time and regular wake up time. That's the same time to go to sleep as well as awake in both weekdays, weekends, holidays, etc.. Some people, they're just all over the place with when they go to sleep and they may have a real limit on what time they have to get up.

They can't really just say, Well, I'll just sleep. I feel rested. They got to get up, We go on with their day, whatever it might be. So it's unfair. Something I saw a person who had written a book, Why We Sleep, Dr. Matthew Walker. He talked about the opportunity to sleep. So give yourself the opportunity to enjoy 8 hours of sleep. Even if you don't get to 8 hours, that's fine. If you need a little bit more, that's fine too. But with the opportunity to sleep, it sounded to me like an invitation.

And it sounds like the way you're talking about resting is an invitation to let your body really reset. Yes, it's an invitation. It's really an act of love you give yourself. And if you think about it, when when you look at the foundations for health, sleep is right there. It's building the house. You cannot build the house if you don't have sleep, if you don't have good food, like these are parts of building your health. And and we tend to overlook the sleep because we do have hectic schedules, etc., etc..

But tending to maybe what you eat and not tending to your rest, if you're not getting better, you have to be looking at the rest. You have to look at the sleep. It's just part of the foundation. If you're going to build a strong house, you got to have good sleep. This is a core foundational principle of natural Catholic medicine that you have to be able to sleep at rest so you can get that reset, whether it's reset for your gut, reset for your blood sugar, for your soul, your spirit, your mind. And we don't necessarily have lab test yet for the solid spirit, but I think common sense could tell us that if we don't have a way to recharge and rest, we are in jeopardy.

We're at risk. There can be some serious things that break can you share with us one or two stories that you think really illustrate these issues around rest? Yeah, I just want to say something about the soul and spirit. Sure. Because there's something about sleep that we also miss when we don't rest enough, which is our inner life. You know, we have this outer life and we're going and doing and that can be beautiful, but we need our inner life as well. And that's where we access soul, That's where we access spirit.

And so and, and, and, you know, when there's that is why people, I think, do love prayer and other things like that, because it helps us move inward. It's it's that it's that access. It gives us immediate access, taking a breath, praying it takes us inward and people miss that. If they're just running around 24 seven all the time. And so I've had so many different women come through daring to rest. You know, there are many different stories. And I would say a lot of them, you know, when when it's a parent, when you have young children, there's there's there's struggle there.

And I had one woman who who, you know, she came with really three children. And those three children, they they all were not sleepers.

Sleep, Circadian Rhythms, and Deep Rest 16:50

And so the challenge for her to get sleep, you know, and we worked a lot on this. We worked a lot on honestly, it's it's back to sculpting arrested life, especially at the age her children were they are looking to her to set the frequency the in the house to set the rest tone and so we really worked on her setting the rest tone like she also had to be resting herself to model that. So it's it's all these pieces in place. And so once she she began practicing yoga nidra which is a sleep based meditation practice, and that then helped her to say, this is when we go to bed at night.

This is when the family this is it. There's not a negotiation. And she has had one kid that really wanted, you know, was a real super late night. Her father on it, she fought it for like two weeks. You know, if once this mother made a decision that this is the tone of the house, everything changed. I mean, she was just a happier mother. She also she just physically felt a lot better. The physical part is huge and people don't realize that, Again, a little bit of rest goes a long way. She didn't have to be resting all the time.

It's not like she had to lay down a nap every minute. Not at all. But she has to protect the rest of the family, the family rest and herself, and she needs to start by modeling it. So so we we worked on that. I have a lot of also older people who are sort of later in life and realize that they haven't been sleeping for years. And so there you know, in particular, there was one woman and she came to daring to rest, having had insomnia for ten years and had been on different medications for insomnia and just having a regular time where she laid her body down.

She practice yoga. And it's a very it's very good for insomnia. It doesn't mean every sleep issues are complicated for different people, different things work. But she began doing a regular practice, not too close to her bedtime, and then she just went off to sleep. It was she actually looked forward to going to sleep because her time practicing yoga nidra was so restful, her body got a baseline of rest that she knew how to power her body down. She wasn't afraid anymore that she couldn't sleep. She had both a hard time falling asleep and then she'd wake up early and that all went away.

Once she got into a routine of giving herself some rest during the day. She was never getting enough deep sleep, which is the restorative sleep. Absolutely. That restorative sleep is key. You have to get to that phase. And in fact, that's where the brain does a lot of its repair. And the lack of it leaves people far more vulnerable to dementia, Alzheimer's and other kinds of brain based disorders. Even mild cognitive impairment can have its roots in blood sugar derangements along with sleep issues.

No question those two go hand in hand. And women are more vulnerable because we've seen more women than men show up with dementia and Alzheimer's. It's not just living longer. These things can start much earlier, so sometimes people get confused and it's not the same. So just to put that out there, okay. Yes. The what you do earlier in life, you're going to see it later in life. If you're you know, it's it's but you can you can get your rest act together at any age. It doesn't matter. So but yeah, absolutely. That's the reality.

And those statistics are very real. My mother has Alzheimer's and I you know, I know that a lot of the research there and very clear that sleep, lack of sleep, other things as well. But how you treated yourself in your twenties, thirties, forties, really it starts early much earlier then when you see it. Absolutely. And that's part of why we do these educational events like these summits, other things, podcasts, blogs, whatever it might be, to get the word out so that we can hit all generations.

So take hold messages. It's not too late. Whatever age it might be watching this interview. And please make sure that we get the word to people who are younger as well as people who are older because this applies to everyone. It is foundation. It really is. All right. So I'd like to capture your thoughts about this scenario, because I think it is shockingly common. People may have great boundaries and tell other people no, let know be a complete sentence, right when they try to get them involved in stuff and stretched too thin.

And, you know, all of the things that go on and people feel like obligated but resentful. Right. That's not a good combination. So when it comes to rest in what I would call cortisol nations, whether it's here in the U.S. or cortisol world, anywhere on the planet where people are just stretched too thin. What's your experience here? It's been around making sure people can have the way to communicate that need for rest. Like, for instance, I notice sometimes if I send out emails or a team member of mine sends out emails, we get an autoresponder back in response to say, Hey, we are away without electricity, we fire power.

You'll hear from us after X, y, z date. And I know why people say that, because they're trying to tell other people, Look, I'm really not available, so don't keep blowing up my email inbox. You're going to just have to wait. It used to be the auto responders just said, Oh, well, we'll reply to your email, you know, two weeks from now, whatever the date was. Right. But clearly, people are respecting that because these emails, these auto responders are getting a lot more specifically where it is right.

They share with us some thoughts about this. Yeah, they are getting more specifically worded because people think you're available 24 seven. And you have to be really clear that you're not. And I think it's actually not an intellectual thing. It's something we have to feel. And so when I say that, I mean, you know,

Stories of Transformation Through Rest 23:00

the challenge when you're busy 24 seven and you don't power yourself down is that you actually lose connection to feeling and not having a connection to feeling gives you these wonky boundaries. You're you're answering texts at 11 p.m. before you're going to bed. You know, there has to be a time when you're available and when you're not available. And again, I think there's an intellectual component here, but I think it's not all intellectual. This is why I mean, this is why at your interest, we train people to be race coaches and to to to serve others with rest, to get their rest act together because it's actually it's not possible on your own.

Many people do it on their own. But we we can't just say get some rest because what does that mean? We need to have spaces for people to rest and we need to have coaching, for lack of a better word, to to help people look at their day. And when can you when can you. I used to rest. I think I take my son to soccer practice. I dressed in my minivan. I would sit there in the parking lot and put the seat. That was where I first started to say, I've got to rest like non negotiation, like not go on my phone, do another thing.

I would rest. And so it's like, look at your day and there is time. There's time where you're maybe doing a game on your phone, whatever it is, that's your time, right? Right there. We all do have pockets of time. And I would say that once we're rested enough, then we're able to set the boundaries from a more rested place, meaning that it's not just our heads going, Well, this makes sense. And everyone's screaming at the family to go to sleep at 10 p.m.. It's like you set the rest tone when you're rested.

It's, it's and it's so, it's so it starts with you and it starts with it starts with those taking a few breaths. It starts with, you know, taking 5 minutes to close your eyes would take you inward if you have a prayer, if you have a mantra of some sort, like an affirmation that you want to repeat to yourself, just do that for 3 minutes. It's truly like the little things mean a lot because then you start to realize, Wow, that kind of felt good or or it felt uncomfortable. Rest can feel uncomfortable because it can bring up the junk in the trunk.

Right The moment we get quiet, then we begin to have to unpack a few things like, Wait, huh? I'm actually, you know, feeling I'm feeling anxious and I'm not even in touch with that anxiousness. A lot of people will say they're not stressed when they are stressed. If you do a stress inventory, I would say, or even do what I said before, a rest rest and go through your day. And then, Mark, does it feel rested, not rested? You're going to probably see a lot of checks in the not rested column. And I think that's usually the beginning of someone taking action it but a health challenge and everyone's here because they're either pre-diabetic diabetic they're they're in a health challenge right now.

That means you've got to take action when you're in a health challenge. Exactly as you you know, actively engaged in having a healthier life. And if you have a family history of these issues, you are particularly invited to pay attention to this because this is often how we change what's called the epigenetic expression of illness. You know, your genes can set you up for more or fewer health problems, but how you live your life as well as the accidental or unfortunate difficulties that unfurl and how you're able to respond, can determine whether or not your genes turn on or off.

That's the epigenetic expressions of that's a new term. It's going to make sure I explain that. So if you are vested, you've got a much better chance of fully recovering from a really impactful, hurtful event. But if you're not rested and if you aren't able to reclaim that rest, it can really set you up for future problems. No question. The challenge is that it's very intellectual when we hear you need to rest. What I just invite people to do is there's lots of free apps. Go and use a free app. You know, I won't start naming them all here, but you can find your your free app where you can get yourself some rest.

It literally people will guide you for 5 minutes. We do once a month for free at daring to rest. It's a yes to rustic gathering where for 15 minutes people come from all over the world to rest for 15 minutes, you know. So it's 15 minutes. The more they come, the more they have the muscle memory to do that themselves. We repeat the same body rotation so that people can even put themselves to sleep with that body rotation or back to sleep. That makes sense. How they said. Well, we can't keep just talking about I need rest.

The number of people who say I need rest is is everyone knows they need rest. They know they're exhausted. So it's about the action piece because that's when you become the hero or the heroine of your journey when you take some form of action.

Boundaries, Stress, and Making Time to Rest 28:30

Absolutely applied work is what makes the difference, you know? Yeah, absolutely. For so many things. So when we're considering rest, I hope, friends, that you've been paying attention and taking notes, look, you've got your piece of paper up and you've literally made that column of rested, not rested. Take note of your own activity throughout the day just to see, you know, what's really working for you and what's not and where there's opportunities for improvement and what people around you are great at respecting your boundaries and which ones are always pushing the envelope.

You know, and just being really clear with people about when you are in, you aren't available, etc.. There's just a lot of ways to communicate that. One of the things that I'm struck with around the issues with rest, Karen and I invite you to share with me what your thoughts are on this is that when people aren't rested, they are far more vulnerable not only to be susceptible to the effects of chronic stress, poor sleep. They're also more likely to have food cravings and want to overeat in general.

So food cravings typically show up either for high calorie foods that are typically either sweet or really savory and or mommy umami. Right. So like biscuits and gravy or pies, cakes, cookies, things like that. The other side of this is that someone might find that they just want to eat. And whether or not it's emotional eating, which has its own particular journey and if it's emotional eating and need to deal with those root causes or for some people, a lot of the food disruption comes from not being rested and some of the things that go on with intermittent fasting, other kinds of ways of eating indirectly address the issue of risk because it changes people's relationship and timing their meal, timing things around food.

Right. That fifth, fifth factor, what are your thoughts? You know, it's something that I don't talk about a lot, but yet in the dairy dress community, I would say there are 25% of the women are they they come in and they think they're just coming for rest and they change their entire diet and they lose weight. There's one woman who has been part of the dairy, the rest community now for about four years. She has she she was obese. I don't know if she had diabetes. I don't know her her her health history.

But I know that she had health issues. She literally the fall this this last year she said everything has it she she said the weight is coming off effortlessly just from resting it is so it's so true on many, many levels that I see it all the time. I see it all the time. It's just it's a reality. It totally makes sense. Certainly from the point of view of just physiology, pathology, spirituality, like from any direction you want to look, this whole thing makes sense, right? So foundational. All right.

So before we wrap up our session, do you have any final thoughts you'd like to share with our audience? Well, I think back to that great piece of paper you just showed of rest rested, not not rested. You know, just begin to do an inventory of your life. It'll really open your eyes. It's almost like people who do food diaries and, you know, you say, I don't have much sugar. And you look and you go, Oh, wait, I have a lot of sugar. You don't you don't realize that until you write it all down. It's the same thing. And then just pick one.

One place that you want to put a little effort into being more rested and and if you think about it, rest is truly just doing nothing, which sounds easy. And it's not so easy in our culture. So get a nap or get, you know, some support in some way so that you can begin to power your body down. That's what the practice of yoga nidra really does. And I do encourage people, if they've never heard of it, it's nothing to do with bendy stretchy yoga. It's not not that it is a is a beautiful, sleep based meditation practice.

And it is it really trains the body to sleep in the morning. Sleep. Would you spell yoga nidra because I'm not sure everybody will. So yoga, Y O G A and then nidra, N I D R A

Rest, Cravings, and Final Takeaways 32:55

and it is Nidra is a Sanskrit word that means loosely means sleep. And so it is the sleep of the yogi. It takes you from waking to dreaming to deep sleep to a fourth state of consciousness that is like it expands your awareness. If you if you ever think of, like monks sitting on a mountaintop, right. Like their their consciousness is expanded. So what happens is you're our worlds are so narrow when we're busy, all of a sudden your world expands and you go, Oh, wait, I didn't think I had time to rest.

Oh, okay. I see little pockets where I can begin to sculpt arrested life. You you you really begin to broaden your how you see things in life. And it's not just that your body gets the rest it needs. I mean, it goes into theta delta brainwaves. These are these are restorative brainwaves. This is why some people who put some people in comas that are very sick so that they can restore their body. And those are the deep brainwaves that they're in so that they can restore the body and come back healthier.

So we need to be going into those deep brainwave states, yoga nidra and a few other meditations, not all meditation. Most keeps you in your beta brain in your waking state, but no yoga nidra takes you to those delta and theta brainwaves. And we're really we're we're we're very deficient in those. We need those. And you will feel I don't want to say different because that might scare some people. You will feel more rested. That's great. That's great. I think that rest is such a powerful primary medicine, underappreciated is not talked about anywhere near enough, and I'm delighted that we could make this part of this summit.

I really am. Karen, where is it? If people would like more information on Daring To Rest where is it that they can connect with you and find out more? I encourage them to go to daringtorest.com and you'll find things there. All right. Great spell. Just like it sounds daringtorest.com and all sorts of wonderful resources are there. Karen has her community in other ways that you can connect and engage. Karen, thank you so much for the work that you do in the world. Having a community and going forward and putting out there something that is just so true that we absolutely need that consistent, powerful reminder of because we all deserve to rest.

I think we can think of any number of things that go on in a big scale in the world that are problematic, where you can't help but wonder, would it have happened if that person was rested? Absolutely. Yes. And thank you for the work. You're doing it for putting rest into this summit, because many, many people don't include rest. So thank you for that. You're very welcome. I'm a fan. All right friends. So if you connected with this session, I'm sure you did. Please share with anyone else you know who would be open to or perhaps might meet a messenger other than yourself.

For me on the power of rest, we all know sometimes if we say something to a loved one or to a friend or a colleague, they don't receive it the same way they hear it from an expert. Karen is absolutely an expert about rests, so please share this with anyone you think could benefit from the message if you would be an ally and a friend that way, we would all appreciate it as we all link arms together to make this world a better place. Thank you so much, Karen. Thank you. Thanks.