The Role Of Lifestyle Medicine In Prostate Cancer

Introduction and Stacy Loebu2019s Prostate Cancer Work 0:00

Hello, everyone. Thank you once again for joining us on the Prostate Cancer Summit. Today's guest is the one and only. I call her the Queen of prostate cancer because she's done so much work around this. As a female, that, I, by the way, as, as a as a person, as an expert, and then as a female, Dr. Stacy Loeb. Stacy, thank you so much for joining us today. Thank you so much for the invitation. Stacy, let's. All right. Let's humble human humility aside. How many studies have you published on prostate cancer?

Well, I think, now I'm up to about 400 publications. So I'd say the vast majority of them are related to prostate cancer. And then, you know, a smattering on other men's health topics like erections, things like that. Amazing. And I think that very few urologists, male or female, have not published as much or you. I consider you the queen of prostate. I've given you that term. That's that's because you are. I mean, come on, who are we kidding here? You do so much work around this. You've done so much work around prostate cancer, active surveillance, and now plant based diet, which we're going to get into.

What other female has done so much work on prostate cancer as much as you have. Well, you know, I don't I don't know, I mean, I think, you know, there's been a lot of people I've had really great mentors. You know, Doctor. Well, Jack, your cat alone, doctor Parton, doctor Carter. So, you know, there's there's been so many, you know, inspirational people in the field and, you know, many other women have started to go into urology and focusing on this area. So I think it's really an exciting time.

Well, that's why I say humility aside, because it's almost impossible for you not to be humble. And and you have all bragging rights on this show, at least for the next 30 minutes that you see. No, seriously, all jokes aside, thank you for all the work you do. You know, I cite your work all the time, and now the fact that you're doing plant based diet work on prostate cancer is just absolutely amazing. And it serves a great need for the rest of us to figure out. All right. You know, we have an idea, but there's nothing like when science supports, you know, the practicality on a plant based diet and things of this sort.

You mentioned, before we get into that, you mentioned, you know, what I call the Mount Rushmore of prostate cancer. You know, Beau Carter, Patrick Walsh. Catalina, how is it, you know, have having had, having worked with them, and, you know, these are like, the premier people in prostate cancer, right? They've written many of the texts, certainly back in the day, even now. How was that experience? I mean, really just amazing. You know, I became interested in this because my grandfather had prostate cancer, and he was a veteran.

And watching his whole journey and grappling with some of the issues with hormonal therapy. And was he exposed to Agent Orange, do you know? I don't think so, no, but certainly that would be a risk factor and something that people should be aware of. But, you know, anyway, that really got me into this to see how I could help other patients and their families who are in this struggle. So I'm really very grateful to have had this exposure to some of these real pioneers in the field, and then really was just setting out to figure out what I could

Mentors, Inspiration, and Lifestyle Medicine 3:41

add, you know, above and beyond what these amazing things that my mentors have done in terms of establishing screening for prostate cancer and, you know, developing the modern approach to prostate cancer surgery. And so they've done so many amazing things. So I think I've now spun off in a few different directions, you know, for example, looking at the quality of online information about prostate cancer and highlighting some of the misinformation that spreads, and then more recently, getting my board certification and lifestyle medicine to look more.

Congratulations. Thanks. Awesome. Yep. You know, how can we really help the patient? And you know, you were really my inspiration for that. You know, I remember when I first came to NYU, I was I was a little bit skeptical. And I thought, you know, I wonder what Doctor Geo is doing. And as I really saw what you did and and what you give to your patients, I thought, wow, you know, he's saving more lives than I am because the patients who see him, they lose weight. Their blood pressure is better, their diabetes is better.

And, you know, and these are actually the things that threaten longevity the most in most patients with prostate cancer, most patients with prostate cancer don't die of prostate cancer. So we should really be very worried about cardiac risk and all of these issues. So so thank you for, you know, really opening my eyes that that it is possible, as you said, not to only survive but to thrive with prostate cancer. And you know, let this be the moment in life that some people get a wake up call that leads to overall health improvements, actually, and better life and better quality of life instead of some kind of, you know, negative spiral.

So I think this is the most positive direction by using prostate cancer diagnosis as an opportunity to make real positive lifestyle change and actually improve your whole life. Absolutely. I, I say that in most cases, and it is a deadly disease. Or it can be there's no you know, we're not undermining that possibility. But in many cases, many of the patients that we see, it is an opportunity for some who are more, religious who say this is a blessing because my life is so much better as a result of this, the way I value the things that how I spend my time, my health, it has improved dramatically.

You know, I have objective markers at our office, Stacy, where, you know, I look at body composition and things like that. God. Everything improves. It's just the most remarkable. And they're getting older, so they're number one. They're getting older. They were 65 when they were diagnosed. Now they're 70. They're leaner, more muscle. You know, hypertension has gone away. All these other things, and they just have a spark in their life. That's remarkable. So, by the way, I gotta thank you for saying what you said.

And really, people have said, oh, my God, doctor love. She she praises you. You know, she t12 she says, well, doctor, go and talk in your talks where is well attended. So a lot of people in our field actually know about me through you. And I appreciate that. So I just want to get, you know, give you that acknowledgment. Plant based diet. What happened? Doctor lobe? I remember Doctor Loeb back in the day when she first came to NYU, having her cheese at her cheese sticks. You know, every, you know, couple of hours, you know, as a snack and, you know, making sure that, you know, eating, you know, I wouldn't say you oh, if I remember correctly, you are health conscious.

You always been and certainly into exercise. But then you went all in on plant based. What happened? Honestly, you know, I the the data are so compelling that it just became hard to ignore you know, and listen like, I, I like a nice steak as much as the next guy. But you know, I realize now that that I just don't think that some of these foods are the best way to fuel my body. And I just really wasn't educated about this when we first met. Similar to most physicians in the US, there's been even studies documenting how few hours of medical school are spent on nutrition.

So the sad thing is, your doctor probably just doesn't know a lot about nutrition. And that's the sad truth. So I thought I was being very healthy, but really I didn't have any particular education on nutrition. You know, I had spent years learning about surgical technique and diseases and not about how to actually promote your health or prevent diseases or even reverse diseases. So it's definitely been a journey, you know, but, but I, you know, we've, we've done now several studies on, you know, people eating more plant based and the impact in terms of, you know, prostate cancer risk, progression of prostate cancer

Why Plant-Based Eating Matters 8:51

if you already have it, side effects like erection issues, urinary issues and people with prostate cancer, and also lower risk of problems with erections and people without prostate cancer. And like I said before, you know, with all the papers that I've been involved in over the years, over 400 publications, I've done a lot of research and a lot of statistical analyzes. And I have to say, like the data in these projects that we worked on with plant based diet are just so clear, like there is not one analysis that we run where it was harmful or bad in any way.

I mean, it really is like very consistent across studies, like no matter which model we looked at. So, you know, I mean, I, I really believe in practicing what you preach. So, you know, in terms of the pillars of lifestyle medicine, eating a whole foods plant based diet, you know, getting meeting the guidelines for physical activity, which is another thing that many doctors don't even know, the, you know, the US guidelines for physical activity. Right. You know, the importance of good sleep, the importance of, you know, mindfulness and, and having any positive attitudes, avoidance of toxic substances, you know, really just meeting the guidelines in terms of alcohol and avoiding things like smoking and other substances.

So, yeah, I think, you know, if if we're going to tell our patients to do this, like, I think that I want to be a role model of this, and also I want to make sure that this is something that's feasible. You know, I'm not going to tell somebody to do something that's just impossible or unsafe. You know, I'm a very busy person and I have a big family. And actually they're all doing the plant based diet now, too. So, you know, you're keeping your family healthy as a result of your research and and the application of your research, for sure.

And my dad, he was the least likely candidate. I mean, he was like, you know, eating pork rinds for a snack and made it real meat and potatoes person, you know? So I feel like if he can do it, you know, really just about anybody can do it. And. Yeah. So you know. Yeah, I don't know. I don't think that we want to tell people to do something that is just like totally impossible or that we're not able to do. And now I feel much more equipped to give my patients real solid information, like, you know, what would a typical breakfast, lunch and dinner look like, for example?

Yeah, I think that's where we need the most help, actually, I honestly even, even I struggle with that in terms of, you know, pre-COVID, I used to have, cooking lessons with a not me. You don't want my cooking lessons, at least not yet. But, a professional natural health cook to cook things up for people and show them this is how you cut even how you cut onions. And and then they participate. And and we made excellent plant based meals, which, is something that I'm thinking of starting up again.

There's nothing like people getting together, gather in a kitchen around food and learning these things, right? Absolutely. And it's very interesting because NYU recently started at the medical school, an elective for students in culinary medicine. So I taught in that class this past year, and I'm very excited to see that there is more interest for the future in helping to, you know, provide medical professionals with real, this hands on information. Because being in a test kitchen and learning the nutritional composition of these different kinds of foods and how to use them and which works better and different kinds of recipes, this is all very valuable information.

But the good news is there is a lot of great recipes and help with all of this online. So I think we're we're living at a much easier time to make dietary changes than in years past. Yeah, it's a matter of of I. Yeah. Again, 25 years I've been in some element of natural health and nutrition and, and and it has evolved tremendously certainly with the science back then, 25 years ago, honestly, it was like, I'm, you know, I'm a quack, you know, talking about diet and cancer. What are you doing? Talking about dying and what's this?

No connection exercise. What are you talking about? And now, obviously there, you know that there's an abundance of science to support it. And then it's about the practicality of it, you know, making it a habit, making it where, you know, I always find this 1 or 2 ways of doing it. Either you do your food prep one day a week on a Sunday, let's say, for 2 to 3 hours. Have fun with it, and you prep for the week, or you split up that time every, every single day. Then you do your prepping. You know where it could take 30, 30, 45 minutes for a lot of people say, oh 30, 45 that's so much time, so much time.

This is your health and the health of your of your family. That's no time. Just like, not to completely digress, people you know, I don't have time to spend with my kid. I'm working. You don't have time to spend with your kids. This is the most important job, right? You how can right? Like, if you don't make time now, you're going to make a whole lot of time later when they're. You know, unwell, as they get older. Right. So, so you have to find time for the things that are important and valuable and certainly, eating well, is that, you know, in New York, it's a little bit easier, right? Stacy?

I mean, we have the botanist two blocks away from our office, which is like a plant based place. So it's is easier. But I'm always thinking of the guy, you know, in the Midwest or something where all they have is burger joints and diners. Right. Well, you know, I think it's really, honestly becoming easier everywhere. There's an app called Happy Cow. And so it literally uses your geo location. So if you open it and nothing to do with me, right, it nothing to do with Geo the person. Right. It just to be just with me.

I think that I think is employed to clarify that your local, local legalizes you. So for example, I was in Sweden giving some lectures. I was in Mexico, Columbia, different parts of the U.S and if you open this Happy Cow app anywhere it shows you all the places with plant based food near where you are. And I haven't yet been to a place anywhere in America or abroad where there weren't an abundance of options. So thankfully, I do think this is growing. Quite a bit good. Stacey, tell us about your research.

You publish quite a few things as it relates to prostate cancer and a plant based diet. To be clear, these are observational. Studies that you publish. So go ahead and go go into them and tell us what are your findings. Yes, absolutely. So the first study that we did, was actually looking at the relationship between how much plant based versus animal based food people ate and the risk of developing fatal prostate cancer. So we looked at this in more than 45,000 men who were in the health professionals follow up study.

This very long term study ran out of Harvard. And these were not people who were on a fully plant based diet, by the way. They were not vegan or vegetarian. This was just an omnivorous population. People who eat whatever, who we actually just grouped their own self-reported dietary intake into their five different groups. You know, group one had the most animal based food and the least plant based all the way up to group five, who ate the most plant based and very little animal based, but not none.

And so what we found is that as you went up, the people who ate the more plant based and less animal based in this population

Research on Plant-Based Diets and Prostate Cancer 16:48

were like about 19% less likely to be diagnosed with fatal prostate cancer. So that was our first observational study on the topic, observational, meaning that we just looked at what people do in their normal daily life. We didn't assign anybody to any specific diet. So then we went back to this same population. The health professionals follow up study this Harvard study, and we picked out all the people with a diagnosis of prostate cancer already. And we looked at what happened after their diagnosis.

And so this was a pretty recent publication where we found, that basically the people who ate more plant based and less animal based food, but again, not none. This was not a vegetarian or vegan group. This was just people who eat everything grouped into five groups based on how much animal and plant foods they eat. And again, we found that the people who ate the most plant foods and least animal foods had better scores for their erections. They had better scores for their urinary symptoms after their prostate cancer treatment, and also other things like more energy and vitality and less depression.

So, you know, again, observational data, just watching people do what they do. And there could certainly be differences between people who eat more plant based and less animal based. Of course, you know, we did our best to try to adjust for as many things as we could. So we factored into the model things like people's body mass index and how much they exercise, how much alcohol did they smoke. So, you know, these models were adjusted for, a whole slew of everything we could think of that could possibly, you know, affect this relationship.

But you do have to always take these with a grain of salt. And then, in addition, I collaborated with a group at University of California, San Francisco recently. Another publication, this one looked at a different, study. This is the capture study. Another, you know, really, well established large study population of patients with prostate cancer and, you know, similar results. But we found there is that in these patients who were already diagnosed with prostate cancer, the people who ate more plant based after diagnosis had a lower risk of progression of the cancer, again, adjusting for many other factors, but recognizing this is not a randomized trial.

So that's a summary of some of our studies. Now we want to also, actually publish a systematic review of the literature about studies of people on fully plant based diets, which was not the situation for any of the studies that I published. And indeed, there have been, quite a few studies of actual vegetarians and vegans and what happens with them. And there there actually is a mix of observational studies and clinical trials. So, for example, one of the famous clinical trials by Dean Ornish is called the Prostate Cancer Lifestyle Trial.

And these patients had prostate cancer, but it was a favorable cancer. So they actually didn't get any treatment. They were just doing active surveillance or just monitoring the cancer. And so these patients were randomized to, an intensive lifestyle intervention where they did a low fat vegan diet. They did physical activity, mindfulness, some supplements versus just a control group. And, you know, not surprisingly, the people who were randomized to the intensive lifestyle group had a lower risk of progression to treatment.

Not to mention like a tremendous reduction in their cholesterol and other benefits for their overall health. So I think, you know, we do have data both from many observational studies, as well as some trial data that are really showing some potential benefits here for patients with prostate cancer in terms of, you know, prostate cancer risk, prostate cancer progression, quality of life. But I think most importantly is there's a lot more data about plant based diets for other things like cardiovascular disease.

So there we do have a large number of randomized trials and much higher quality of evidence, showing the benefits in terms of things like weight loss, diabetes, cardiovascular events. So as far as I'm concerned, I think the data are very compelling and that since there's really no downside to this and a lot of upside, especially for cardiovascular health and probably also for the prostate, that it's probably for Alzheimer's and probably for type two diabetes, we know the list is, it goes on and on, right?

Yeah. So the side effects in a in, in a such a lifestyle program are favorable good side effects. That's right. Stacy on on the on your study on the health professional studies, study that you published on on men that were diagnosed. Do you remember, do you know or remember how many were diagnosed with low risk intermediaries at high risk and and how the data, what are the results of the data amongst those three different groups? Yeah, that's a great question. You know, this was really a mix of patients.

All the patients in that study had localized prostate cancer. So there was nobody in that study who had metastatic disease or advanced cancer that had spread outside the prostate. So that study was really limited to people who had cancer that was still in the prostate. And the vast majority of the people in that study were treated with either surgery or radiation. We didn't actually do a subset analysis, of, you know, the results in terms of quality of life breaking it down based on their, risk group.

So that's an interesting suggestion that you mentioned. But we haven't looked at the data in that way. Yeah. So. Okay, I'm all in. All right. The studies are compelling. You know, I have a friend that, I said to him, I showed him a study on strength training and said, look who's longevity. Very important. You reduce your risk of everything, even, you know, balance issues that people have as they get older. It's just like, you want to do strength training, you know, evidence is clear. He said to me, well, Gio, that's good.

But, you know, there's a lot of evidence that smoking is bad for you. And people still smoke. So it's almost like, who cares what the evidence shows. You know, doing it is something different. The practicality of doing something is different despite what the evidence shows. And that was like a kick in my growing because I was like, man, he's right, he's right. So I think so I put a lot of effort into practicality. This is what we do. This is a and I'm trying to, you know, kind of dose it. Right.

Like, I don't know three servings of broccoli a day and you know you know, six hours. You know, I'm trying to dose it as much as possible. All the different elements. What is your approach? What is the practical approach, you think where people can, you know, incorporate a plant based diet. And by the way, a lot of people watching this, I think a lot of people that we're exposed to, their health conscious, it's just that there's just a lot of misinformation out there. What what healthy things to do are what is a good diet and so forth.

So how would you suggest that those watching, this summit was can can start Monday morning or if not whenever they listen to this the next day or right after they finish watching this video, what should they do to make it, a part of their lifestyle? That's the goal, right? For it to be a part of your lifestyle? Yeah. Well, great question. And of course, you know, the practicality is so important. And I did mentioned the Happy Cow app as a really easy way to find plant based food anywhere. I think, you know, I always, am a big proponent of the approach of adding things before removing things, because it would be really difficult if you just categorically said one day, like, I'm no longer going to eat all these foods that I normally eat.

So now I don't even know what to eat, eat, and love. I'm not going to eat these foods that I eat and love. That's. Yeah, exactly. So I think the first step is to just, you know, try a few new meals and see what

Practical Ways to Adopt a Plant-Based Lifestyle 25:48

what hits, you know, they there's a lot of programs like this, you know, things like Meatless Mondays even. And, and some people already are used to doing this sometimes like for example, this is is something that many people already do for lent. And so maybe they have some strategies that they've used for lent. And so, you know, just trying some new things. So maybe, you know, maybe breakfast is going to look a little bit different. Maybe you'll try doing overnight oats, which is very easy. You just literally like can put either oats or chia, into a jar with some plant milk overnight.

And it just forms a very nice sort of pudding, consistency in the morning. And that can have berries or anything else added to it for more flavor. Trying out some of the plant based milks. We actually did a study comparing the nutritional content of a number of commercially available plant based milks versus dairy milk. And, you know, I think you really just want to look at the nutrition information and make a decision. Some of them are meant for kids, so they have things like added sugar or, you know, chocolate flavoring and things like that.

But many of the regular ones, you know, there's plain and unsweetened versions, that are very low in calories. And most of the commercially available ones are fortified with calcium. Some even actually have more calcium content than dairy milk. So I would just look for, you know, fortified versions that aren't the kids kind with, added sugars and, and see which you like the best. Which one are some of your favorites? Well, I think different people enjoy different ones. I personally like soy milk.

I think there is a lot of misinformation around soy, but nutritionally it's considered equivalent to dairy milk even by our national nutrition organization. And so there's a lot of protein, there's a lot of calcium. Soy does not cause breast cancer and prostate cancer. Quite the opposite, actually. Populations that consume the most soy have a much lower risk of these conditions. So don't be afraid of soy. I think soy is definitely our friend because it's a very great source of protein and other nutrients.

A lot of people have a lot of concerns about protein. And at least here in the United States, protein deficiency is really rare. It's just not a thing. What the deficiency that is really common in the US is fiber, and that's behind a lot of the problems, like a lot of the bowel problems that are so common in our patients and those really linked to everything else, bowel issues linked with urinary issues. So it all goes together. And by eating more fruits and vegetables and whole grains, and that's another piece of misinformation.

People have this idea that carbs are bad, but all carbs are not equal. And so what we're trying to do is reeducate people. You know that what we're trying to avoid is refined grains. You know, not eating things like white bread and white rice, but whole grains are really healthy. They're great sources of fiber. And you don't have to restrict your carbs. So you can eat whole grain foods. And these should be part of a healthy diet, and they're good for the prostate. So I think just, you know, to, to, to piggyback on that a little bit, Stacy, you know, again, I've done this this nutrition thing for a long time and really gone in and done it all.

I've done everything from Atkins to Zone, diet and everything in between. Back in the day, raw food. You know, I was in the raw food movement and literally all raw foods all the time difficult to do. And and now I care for my patients to do better than they've done before, and I care less about them doing my thing. Right. Well, geo izing your thing, great. Because I don't know. That is great from that patient that I'm seeing. I want them to do so rather than saying, you know, if they're vegetarian, right?

So I'm like, let's figure out what's the best method of doing a vegetarian approach. Your vegan. Great. Let's figure out what's the best method of doing a vegan approach. You're an omnium. Great. You're a pescatarian. Great, right. And when you do that, it makes it easier for them and more, more user friendly, if you will. But also, I've come to the conclusion that if you do nothing else, if you do nothing else, stay away from ultra processed foods. Just stay away from ultra processed food. That's the one thing when you look at ultra processed foods and research as it relates to ultra processed foods, it increases the risk of absolutely everything, including Alzheimer's.

I don't know why Alzheimer's is so much into my head, but I've seen like my coach, you know, have it. And I was like, oh my God, that's it's just. And the thing is that you don't die, right? Like it's not like you get it, you get diagnosed and you die. You don't die. You stay around for eight, ten years before you do. And it's just really difficult for the for the family. So, so yeah. What are your thoughts on that? I think you kind of said it, but what are your thoughts? I mean, listen, I don't think any of this has to be like black or white or absolute.

And as I mentioned in my studies with the health professionals follow up study, these people were not fully vegan or vegetarian. This was just an omnivorous population. And even shifting within that range where more of your food is plant based and less is animal based really there, you know, was a big difference in those groups in the study. So I definitely think that, you know, you can still eat some of the foods that you love. And it's not like, you know, an occasional steak or something is going to kill you.

But I definitely think that we do need to rethink our daily actions. I actually think that, Mayor Eric Adams summarized this very well. He wrote a book about his Whole Foods plant based journey through which he reversed his diabetes. He was actually had such bad diabetes. He was going blind and nobody even talked to him about nutrition. He just discovered one of these intensive programs online on his own. And and really, you know, changed his life. And he says how, you know, everyone in his family except for him has had prostate cancer, everyone has diabetes.

And he just thought that these things were, you know, unavoidable. This is his genetics. There's nothing that he can do. And now he realizes it's not his birthright. It's his breakfast. It's not his legacy, it's his lunch. It's not his DNA, it's his dinner. And when we're at the Thanksgiving table, we share a lot more with our families than our genes. We share a lot of these traditions, and what we want to be passing around the table is health for everybody there. And you know, but I also think there's ways to, you know, kind of recreate a lot of the delicacies that are culturally important, you know, and there's a lot of great books out there.

For example, this book, Korean Vegan like, won one of the prizes for the New York Times. Korean vegan. Yeah. Where this chef recreated all of the, you know, important cultural meals and the Korean culture using plant based recipes. So that's just one particular example. But there's many where I think, you know, people can definitely still preserve their cultural heritage, by just, you know, swapping out some ingredients or not, you know, enjoy your special holiday. But then the rest of the week, do everything that you can to make better choices.

And I agree with you completely. You know, avoiding ultra processed foods, you know, not only are they, you know, just terrible, but now I think we're seeing other effects there, like microplastics, that can, occur with this additional food processing. So, you know, as far as I'm concerned, you know, I really do believe as much as possible and focusing the diet on whole plant based foods. So not whole foods like the grocery store, but whole foods like, you know, where it is not something that came out of a plastic wrapper that was pre-processed, but just fruits, vegetables, whole grains in their native form and as much as possible, eliminating the processed foods and, minimizing the animal based foods.

Any thoughts on organic foods and non-organic foods? I mean, I that's another area where I've gone in quite a bit, but I'm curious to know what are your thoughts on that based on your either your research or the things that you do with you, yourself and your family? Yes. Well, you know, I think, you know, that's a great question. And, many of these studies, at least in prostate cancer, haven't even delved into how much of the foods are organic or not. In terms of practicality, what I recommend to patients is look online at the Dirty Dozen list.

And those would be the foods to prioritize, and which actually is about 15 foods in that, that not 12. There's about 15, 15 the dirty dozen that one should. But that's a good one. Ewg.org, I believe, is the, the website. Yeah. So, you know, if it's going to be on there. So something like grapes or tomatoes like these are in the dirty dozen. So if you're going to say like, where do I want to spend my money to get the organic, I think that would be the focus right there.

Recipes, Resources, and Closing Remarks 35:48

But, you know, honestly, I think actually that's another misconception is the price point. So there's been a lot of research recently actually showing how eating more whole foods plant based is actually, saves a lot of money. And, you know, I don't know, for some reason, there's this misconception that plant based diets are, you know, bougie or more expensive or something like that. But if you think about, like, the grocery store, I mean, if you're buying bags of dried beans and bulk and lentils and nuts, I mean, these are not like, expensive foods, like there's no grocery store ever where the beans and lentils are more expensive than buying a steak or something like that.

So I guess it's probably relative to like, ramen noodle and ramen noodles and and really crappy stuff. You know, I think some of the comparisons were for things like Beyond Burger might be a higher price, than like a regular burger, you know, where both of these are processed. And really, like, neither one is a health food. And so great point. I thank you for it. Thank you for, thank you for saying that. That's a wonderful point. These are one of the things that for a while, I've been saying a fake food is a fake food, you know, and if and in my opinion, if you want a burger, get a burger.

Don't get a fake burger. If you want ice cream, get ice cream. Though. Some of the coconut milk ice creams are pretty good. But there's a lot of crappy things out there that are low sugar and no sugar and no fat. But it has a bunch of other bad ingredients, so I think that's a wonderful point. Well, I think, you know, I would slightly differ on that in the sense that, like even a Beyond Burger, I'm not saying that I recommend this food. This is a highly processed food that has a lot of salt and a lot of fat.

However, if you compare the nutritional content of that versus the regular burger, there still is less saturated fat. There's no cholesterol. There are some advantages to the food. Yeah. I don't really I mean, I actually, you know, I, I'm, I'm, I when I talk about meat, I took the highest quality possible grass fed, grass fed has very little saturated fat. And you know, and I should I should preface by saying that because people won't know that. Right. I'm always thinking when I'm thinking of, of of animal products of highest quality possible, and and those are completely done studies.

I don't know if, you know, with, you know, grass fed meats and conventional raised meats and it's night and day, there's like vitamin B and grass fed and there's, I'll mega three fatty acids in the grass fed meats and all kinds of things like that. So I guess then we overall agree, like, bottom line, like whatever it is that you're eating, like really look at the details. You know, because some fake foods are just, you know, highly processed. Yeah. And have a lot of other chemicals and others don't.

You know, I just tried some plant based cheeses and they only have four ingredients. They're made of cashews, water, salt and cultures. Just the, you know, like the acidophilus or whatever the cultures are, give the flavors. And so those four ingredients are the only contents. What does it taste? It was absolutely, unbelievably precious, believe it or not. And and so there you actually have a whole Foods option where there is no processed materials in there at all. And it tastes amazing. So there.

So something like that exists. But then there are others that are, you know, highly processed. So yeah, I think you know what the devil is in the details with all of these things. And that's where it gets complicated for people right there. Yeah. So what's your favorite dinner? Plant based dinner? They said, this is it. When I have this plant based dinner, I am super happy. So satisfying, tasteful, so good for me. What is that? What does that look like for Doctor Stacy Low? Yeah, well, gosh, I mean, so many.

I really like, a good chili, you know, especially, like, in the winter time with a lot of different beans, you know, kidney beans, tomatoes. So I like I'm a big soup person. I like lentil soup a lot as well. And then in terms of, like, full dishes, I, I love stir fries. So any kind of, you know, stir fry with either like, tofu, Saturn or Tempe for additional protein. Sometimes I make, like an eggplant, baked in the oven with some tomato sauce. I make a Shake Shack, with tofu, which is really quite delicious.

This, you know, Mediterranean dish with baked tofu covered with tomato sauce. And a lot of these are very prostate healthy, you know, because you want to be having things like cooked tomatoes and cruciferous vegetables. So just finding more ways to integrate some of that into the meal prep is very nice. Taco Tuesday, you know, you know, another thing I really like, plant based lasagna. So, and there's some great, pastas, like, explore cuisine, make some pastas that are out of lentils or mung beans or black beans.

So gluten free for those that have a gluten intolerance. And these have, you know, like 25g of protein per serving, even in some of these pastas. So that's very nice. So they do have some lentil lasagna noodles, which I like a lot. And I make my own, cashew ricotta. And so again, this is a foods plant based version. You can get recipes online, but it, it consists of, soaked cashews, which you put in a food processor with tofu, garlic, lemon juice and spices. And it makes a very nice spread. And it's very high in protein because it's all based on tofu and and cashews.

And that goes in between the layers with tomato sauce and vegetables. For like a, meat alternative in there. I usually use lentils. They give a very nice little, it's sort of the right size and mouthfeel in, in a lisanna or a pasta dish. So I do like, you know, bolognaise sauces with lentils. So those are just, you know, just some quick ideas off the top of my head. I love it. Well, you know, dinner at Doctor Loeb's house. So you set up a date? We'll have a few of them. Well, well, well, well, well, we want to now, you can only host, but so many.

You do live in a New York City apartment, which by default. Right. They're not that large. Not large. I think that helped me a lot to learn ideas. Was doing the Purple Carrot meal delivery service because they send a box of ingredients, and then you make your own meal with their directions. But even for people who don't subscribe to that, they have all their recipes for free on their website. What's the website? Do you know? Yes, it's Purple carrot.com. And so that really helped me a lot. It's actually a lot of urologists, use this service, believe it or not.

I was sent a box of it by Doctor Scott Exner, another prostate cancer, actually send it to him or he send it to you. Send it to me. And I loved it and I shared it with other people. You know, Brian, Doctor Chapman uses it. So yeah, lots of enthusiasts around the country, but, but you don't, you know, the, the all the recipes are free. And so in terms of learning how to do like the baked eggplant or some of these stir fries, I don't think I had even used Saturn before or Tempe before I started this service.

And those are some other options that can go and things like a stir fry or tacos. So, yeah, I don't know if anyone would find it helpful just to have some recipes to try out. I think. Go ahead and check that out. Lovely Dr. Stacy Loeb, thank you so much for joining us for spreading the good word you're doing. You're doing what many people would say, God's work. You know, as an MD, oftentimes it comes to you. Spreading this word out is more powerful than even I am. Just because my trained at Hopkins top institutions and by the way, publishing on plant based diets and practicing it and, you know, putting out the word so I appreciate you so much.

And thank you once again for being on, final words. And where can people find you? Yeah, well thank you. I am the host of the Men's Health Show on Sirius XM. Thankfully, Doctor Geo has been on my show. I don't even know how many times, but I know always an awesome guest. So Men's Health, we are on, Sirius XM channel 110. It's on Wednesdays from 6 to 8 p.m. eastern. So definitely a lot of content there related to, prostate cancer, sexual health and also some of these lifestyle things. So, definitely, come check us out.

Great. Doctor Stacey Loeb, thank you so much for joining us. And thank you everyone for joining us on this yet amazing, another amazing episode of the Prostate Cancer Summit. Stay well and I will talk to you at the next Prostate Cancer Summit episode. So long. Have a great day.