
Increasing Your Body’s Natural Healing Energy With PEMFs

Founder of bVital

Author, Supercharge Your Health with PEMF Therapy
Increasing Your Body’s Natural Healing Energy With PEMFs
William Pawluk, MD, MSc
Full Transcript
Introduction to PMF and the Ashes on the Embers Concept 0:00
Welcome back, everybody, to the bioenergetics summit. I'm your host, Doctor Greg Eckel. Our topic today is shaking the ashes off the embers to create deep healing with Emfs and our speakers. Doctor William Pollack, MD, MSC, is a holistic doctor near Baltimore, Maryland. His previous academic positions at Johns Hopkins and University of Maryland is considered the foremost authority on the use of pulsed electromagnetic fields therapy in North America. He's interested in a new solution to stubborn, chronic, and frustrating health problems.
He wants to try to resolve the cause of the problem and not simply put a Band-Aid on it. Most conventional treatments for pain rely on numbing and numbing that simply make the perception of pain better, but don't heal the cause. On The Doctor all show. They both agree that pain management should be focused on healing the cause. After 25 years of seeing the risks and side effects of traditional health solutions and approaches, and after studying various healing approaches, he discovered that pmfs provide the most benefit allowed safe, nontoxic, self-directed, self-controlled, and at home pain management.
Doctor Pollack, welcome aboard. Thank you. Greg. Thank you very much for having me on your program. And, I look forward to our, our spending time together again. I love it. I always love talking with you about maps and, all of the knowledge and wisdom that you impart and share. I want to start out with this whole concept are. What are the ashes of the embers, please? All right. And, And acupuncture. Oil. Silver. Ash. So we have a fire going in your fireplace, right. And you have the embers in the fireplace and the embers are red hot.
But on surrounding the ember is the ash. So it didn't get there right away in the wood burn. It burned and burned. And then the ashes fell off, for the ashes became the part of the wood that was already burned off. And inside the ashes basically is the ember. And what you do is you basically shake the ember and it shakes off the ashes and exposes the actual ember itself. That's where the fire is. The ashes don't do a whole lot. They just cover the ember. And in a sense, they can keep the ember from getting hotter, as hot as it could be.
So now how does this relate to Bamf? So pmfs are basically the exact puncture system in the acupuncture system. You have, the acupuncture meridians themselves and then those meridians are active. But the meridians can accumulate static ashes let's say. So the meridian is the ember and then you accumulate ashes. So what happens is that if you're doing bio energetic testing on an acupuncture system using electro acupuncture according to volt, right. Which you're measuring the different pain points of the hands and other points in the hands and other points and in the body, and they tell you how much energy that system can take or give.
So what happens then is that are putting energy into the system, the body that shows you, where it's hot and where it's cold. In an HIV test, the results typically are shown as red, green or yellow to red means overreact to much heat, if you will, in that point. So when you're putting energy in, you get feedback and the feedback you get is red. And then or the feedback is going to be yellow, which is under-performing or green, which is what you want. So ideally then you want to have that a balance in the system.
And again in a sense ideally you want to have all those readings be green. Now when you have a lot of red in the system and we can show the slide, now we can share the screen. So I'll share my screen. Yeah. Please do. All right. So these are EAB results before and after PMF.
How PMF Differs from Environmental EMF 3:56
So we did two sets of tests. So you do the basic panel. So the far left you'll see a lot of red. And there green is a little bit of yellow but a lot of red in that person's body. They had a lot of let's say inflammation a lot of overreaction of the acupuncture points. When you see that much in an EV, you can either concluded the whole system is really hot, or you can conclude that the embers are being covered by ash and they're hotter than they would be because of the ash. The general ash in the system.
So what happens is then then you do the magnetic therapy. So the second picture from the left shows you what happens when you do the magnetic field therapy. So you do a whole body magnetic field therapy. You are projecting against the body electrical stimulation. And that electrical stimulation basically is activating acupuncture points and meridians. But when you have a lot of static, you know, those acupuncture points and meridians, that's the ashes. So in other words, all those reds that we're seeing in that far left is not real.
It's static. It's ashes. It's covering what's really happening. It's making making the system hotter than it really should be. And when you expose the exposed, the embers, then you're basically revealing the true embers themselves and what's really hot. So it's not just the heat of the ashes now, the heat of the embers themselves. So then in that second bar graph, QL, now you can see the number of reds has dropped dramatically. So we're now we're down to about eight bars of red. Whereas in the previous one we had the vast majority were red.
So if you're an acupuncturist you can be doing pulses, you can be doing assessments, and you can think that there's more problems going on in this body than you could imagine. And where do I start to do treat. But when you do a magnetic field therapy, basically you're clearing that system. You're clearing the ashes of the embers and you're revealing the true embers. Love it. That's awesome. And I think the picture is like a thousand words. So what exactly is happening? What is happening in there front for the PMF.
So let's talk about pulsed electromagnetic frequency. What is it. And then maybe how is it different from Emfs. Because a lot of people have concerns around electromagnetic frequency for good reason. And then what is that mechanism of action that you think is working in there? Well, we do talk about EMF as being electric. The electromagnetic fields are electromagnetic. Many people do refer to it as frequencies, but it's actually fields. And electromagnetic fields have two components we'll call amplitude or intensity and frequency.
And in all my research and 30 years of working with magnetic field therapy, what I realized that the most important feature of, magnetic field therapy is the intensity, not less so the frequency. So emfs the ones that we are the most concerned about are broadcast into the environment. They have towers, microwave towers. But you also have radio towers, you have television towers, and you have, radar antennas in our neighborhoods, etc.. You know, when you have the radar on your weather forecasting, they're showing you the radar through scanning through the whole area.
Well, that radar is being broadcast into the environment. It's going out into the environment. And essentially it goes out forever, essentially to essentially to infinity. It drops off dramatically over distance. But basically it goes to infinity. So that's a broadcast magnetic field. And that's what we call open loop. Right. So because it goes to infinity it's going to hit anything that's in that in the area the broadcast area. And it is standing in the way it's going to get it. And we rely on that with television and radio.
We want that because we have we want the transmission going to our radio or to our television. So we could right, you know, show the signals. Now that's designed for that purpose. It's designed for communication, entertainment, whatever. It's not designed for therapy. And unfortunately, because it's going out of the environment, it can get absorbed. So what happens then is that emfs can be absorbed by the body, and when they are absorbed by the body, they cause heating. Heating can then cause breakdown of DNA to break down a proteins break breakdown of gene.
And that's why emfs can be a problem. And especially there a problem for people who are already hyper excitable in terms of their cells and tissues and the amount of inflammation in their bodies. So that can aggravate that, make that even worse. Same principle as a microwave oven. So in a microwave oven you have microwaves which are absorbed by the tissue or absorbed by whatever's in the, in the oven. And then the oven basically heats. So we do that on purpose with microwave ovens. We don't want to do that in our environment.
We want to do it in a controlled fashion in a microwave oven. So that's EMF. We want to use them in appropriate ways. We don't want to be bombarded by it and have exposure to it in uncontrollable ways that we can't personally control. But the way you control it is you stay far, as far away as you can from a microwave antenna, right? Or a radio antenna or a radar antenna. And we can't always do that either, as well as we would like to, depending on our level of sensitivity. So pmfs are very, very, very different.
PMF is generated by current flowing through a wire. So you have a machine, it takes current from the wall, puts it through its filtering processes, and changes the signal into a specific signal. And in that case, we could talk about 7Hz or 10Hz or 15 or so. That's the frequency element of it. Or we can say, okay, fine. What's more important is the intensity. I want a strong pulse. So another way of thinking about it is I could tap on my desk and I can go RF, I could hear that tap. Yeah, yeah we can.
All right. So that's that's low intensity and it's relatively fast. But now I'm going to increase the intensity. Okay. Maintain the same repetitive rate. But I'm now increasing the intensity. So in a wire then you control the current flowing through the wire. Let's say my thumb is the direction of the current. It's the wire. And the current is flowing in the direction of my thumb. Now what happens is when you have a current flowing through a wire, automatically through a principle of physics that we don't control, it's physics.
Current flowing through a wire produces a magnetic field perpendicular to the flow in the current, and that's called the right hand rule. My thumb is the current and my fingers are the are the magnetic fields that are perpendicular to the flow of the current. That wrap are basically three dimensionally around that current flow. It's a three dimensional field shear. So it's a controlled field. It's not broadcast into the environment. Right. It's closed loop. The other one is open loop. This one is a closed loop.
And what happens is as the current pulses through here at the at the rate or the frequency, the current pulsing or the pulse rate, the magnetic field is going like this, going back and forth, but it's always closing down on itself. So it goes out, it closes back goes out, it closes back goes out, closes it back. So it is broadcast in the environment. And the only person basically getting exposed essentially is the person that's using the coil, using the magnetic field. Now, if you happen to be standing next to a person that's getting a magnetic field, some of that field is going to go into your body as well.
Acupuncture, Meridians, and the Body as an Electrical System 10:48
But there's a there's a, a principle of physics as well called the, what one, one of the medical applications of that's called the inverse square law, which means the magnetic field drops off very rapidly as you move away from the source. But that same principle applies to heat and sound and light and cold and so on. Any radiation. So we use it in medicine, that inverse square law. We actually use that in medicine to calculate the radiation dose. We will try to do radiation to kill a tumor. So we use the inverse square law.
We say okay how far do we have to go into the body. How much energy we're going to have to deliver. And then we do that calculation of the amount of energy we're going to need to start with in order to produce the energy that we want at the target or magnetic field therapy basically operates under a very similar principle. And because the magnetic field drops off very rapidly, then you have to calculate the magnetic field that you need to do to deliver it to the body, to do the actions that we want to, deliver into the body. Right.
So that's the difference between EMF and PMF. So Pmfs are incredibly safe, incredibly safe. And how can I say that? Well, I'm sure most people have heard about MRI, and most people can tolerate MRI. Where they can't tolerate MRI is if you have metal in your body because the MRI heats the metal, it causes heating around the metal and as a result, because of absorption, it causes heating and that can burn the tissues. So beyond MRI and then now we have devices that are used for treatment resistant depression that are very high intensity, that are, that are aimed into the brain.
And they're strong enough that what you do is you put the coil up near the wall called the motor cortex, which is like right about here, and you stimulate the hand part. So that's got a representation of the whole body. So you stimulate that part of the cortex that would control the hand because it goes the opposite direction. Crank up the intensity right at that spot until I get a movement of my finger. So the magnetic field is now strong enough to cause current in the brain. That then causes an activation of the muscle.
And as a result, what happens then is that again, that's that system is now FDA approved for treatment resistant depression. And it's very, very safe, extraordinarily safe. So most pumps that we're using are completely safe compared to EMF. Yeah. So that I know that is a big concern for a lot of our listeners and viewers. And so the therapeutic benefit of the p EMF. So the, the pulsed electro, is it the pulsed electromagnetic field in use in the therapeutic. Is it because it is so guided and so used on so localized, right.
Not broadcast out to environment, with a specific use and intention. For instance, you know, you, you speak into the use of EMF as almost an acupuncture therapy or activating the meridians, etc.. So how do those work? Their electrical and magnetic work together. That's why we call it electromagnetic. That's the second force of the universe. The electromagnetic light is electromagnetic sound essentially, in its own way, electromagnetic. It's waves as pressure. So, so magnetic fields, basically, as they move into the body, that magnetic field is interacting with the electrical parts of the body.
And those electrical parts are not just the nerves, but the body is essentially a battery where a battery inside that skin, and even the skin itself is its own little tiny battery. So even that is a battery. So everything in the body is all based on ions, and ions are based on charge, and all the molecules in the body are either neutral or negative or positive in charge. So one of the principles of magnetic fields is that as a magnetic field passes by charged molecules or charges, they interact, and the magnetic field then activates those charges and creates more current, it creates more charge.
And it's that creation of charge which does most of the healing work in the body. So, the body basically ignores magnetic fields that are it doesn't need it when you have illness, when you have disease, when you have imbalances in the body, then basically what you have then is the charge is being taken up by the body, used by the body rekik to kickstart. So, for example, one of the FDA approved machines for, PMS is for healing fractures that won't heal. So after six months for fracture hasn't healed.
It's called a nonunion and magnetic field therapy has been approved by the FDA to heal fractures, most commonly in the in a in your hand or the hands or in the arm or in the, the legs. So magnetic field therapy then is now used to re kickstart healing that stall. So now all of a sudden you produce more energy into the tissues, into the body. And the healing wakes up. And after six months to a year, basically the body heals that fracture. That's got to stop. You know. So as far as acupuncture is concerned, to go back to the point that you're asking at the very beginning, acupuncture has been discovered to be an electrical system.
We call it cheap. Back then when they discovered the acupuncture system, they didn't know that it was electrical. All right. They said it's energy. So it's they call it cheap. It may have other components to it, but basically it's electrical charge. So we now know that the whole acupuncture system is a DC current system. It's like a battery running current through a wire. Not from not from AC, not from a power generator. Right. It's a DC battery. And that's a very low intensity system. It's all linked together, all linked together.
So when you put a magnetic field, pass that wire through that wire, through that system, you're causing more current to be produced. And where that system is stuck, then all of a sudden you start activating that system and activating that system activates other systems. There's lots of reflex systems that happen after downstream from acupuncture. So when you do a magnetic field projection into the body, all sorts of stuff happen. Yes, that that is fascinating and really right up my alley. So thank you for bringing that up.
How about the 10 to 10 to no muscular meridians. So that's a little bit different than the acupuncture meridians. Yeah. So think of it this way. We know about power lines right. We know that power lines produce magnetic fields right. Because the the the current flow laws. So what happens is I have done this at you have taken fluorescent bulb and gone under a power line and the bulb lights out. It doesn't like light up like it would if you had current coming into it directly, but it gets brighter. Yeah.
So the power line magnetic field in the power line is it is interacting with the molecules. The minerals that are in that fluorescent to make, you know, the body is basically the same thing. So and the acupuncture system is just like that as well. So all of a sudden it becomes activated and all sorts of things happen. Now, every cable, every magnetic cable, every magnetic line in the body has current around it, has a magnetic field around it. So essentially all of these meridians become magnetic fields around the body.
So it becomes like a shield. Each cable has its own shield. And that's what's called the ten of muscular meridians. So they flow along the meridian lines of the body. And they produce this kind of pendent or muscular. It's it's more like in the muscular system and in the tendencies. And so that's where it was discovered. And that's why it's called ten on a muscular. But basically it's a, it's a magnetic shield that we all naturally produce. Is there a way to measure that. Do you, do you have some preferred modes to measure that?
It's very subtle. You have to use very sensitive equipment. Yeah. So just like you can measure a magnetic field around a wire that's flowing, that produces a current, you can do basically the same thing in the body. But we're talking about micro volts. Yeah. We're extremely low levels of energy.
How Pulsed Magnetic Fields Drive Healing 18:18
All right. So we've got we've got these direct currents. We have these pulsed electromagnetic fields coming in interacting with our bodies. And we started out talking about the ashes on the embers, getting the ashes off to really get into that deep tissue healing. So how do the PMA APS generate that deep tissue healing? Nothing in a body? Nothing. Not even metal, nothing in a body stops the magnetic field. It goes right on through you. Think of it this way. A magnetic field is like the wind blowing through the trees.
You don't see it on the way. You know it's there. The leaves are moving or the branches are moving. But it doesn't stop. The tree does not use up. Basically, the wind can slow it down a bit, but basically it doesn't use it up. And the same thing with the body. The body does not slow down or use a magnetic field as it's passing through. Basically, it's starting to do all this charge production in the tissues. And because it passes all the way through the body from one side of the body to the other as it's passing through, it's initiates all this healing process.
A pmfs are not blocked by the skin, are not blocked by the fluids in the body. PMF are not blocked by bone. There's no difference. The body doesn't care whether it's bone or muscle or fat or whatever. It's to a magnetic field. It's basically the same. So it goes right on through as if it was air. And you can do this. You can actually do it. I've done these measurements where you can take a magnetic field. You have a magnetic field producer and you take a magnetic device and measure the magnetic field. Right.
And at a distance you can measure the field. Then what you do is you put a body in the middle. There's no difference. All right. The magnetic goes all the way through as if it wasn't even there. But it's the action of the magnetic field as it's moving through. That's that pulse. And that's the key. It's the pulse. It's the pulse moves through into the body, moves past the body and out. But as it's moving through, it's jiggling. All that charge that we talked about, it's wake awakening, tender muscular meridians. It's awakening.
The acupuncture system to awakening all the charged production in the body. And some people do equate the body to a battery, as I said at the beginning. So what you're doing is you're recharging this battery. You're doing more than that. You're recharging all sorts of processes. But one of the things you're doing is you're recharging the whole body battery. And that's one of the reasons that, healers often find that their magnetic fields, the healers magnetic fields, get much bigger after a magnetic field exposure.
You can measure this with an aura meter. Got it. So those actions, what are some of the actions, then, as that field is moving through the body, what are we seeing what happens in the body then, because of that sort of basic principle of interacting with charge and iron, that all sorts of activities gets generated in the body. And so how does healing happen? What do you need to have healing? At the very least, you need to have the production of ATP to wake up the mitochondria and make more energy in the tissues and cells.
You open the circulation to open blood vessels, and you start to deliver more oxygen and nutrients into the tissues. Blood vessels that are clamped down, muscles that are clamped down all of a sudden relax and open up, which helps with the circulation. That's the mechanism of increasing circulation, is you're just opening everything up. But in addition to opening the circulation, you're making the blood flow better. So the blood's not as thick. It has more, it has less viscosity. So it's changing the proteins and the proteins are now interacting with the magnetic field to increase charge and activity.
So there's more flow. We see this with with something called rouleau formation. People talk about dark field microscopy and so on. And you can see the coining of, red blood cells. So when that red blood cells stack on top of each other or what we call coin, then they have a decreased surface area for carrying oxygen. And so what you do with magnetic fields, if you expose that blood to a magnetic field, all of a sudden the anointing stops the blood. The red blood cells separate each other. Now they have a much bigger surface area to carry oxygen.
So that's one of the other aspects of magnetic therapy is now you're increasing the amount of oxygen delivery into the cells and tissues. So you have an anticoagulant effect. You know, when you obviously if you blood becomes thick it doesn't move adequately. You can get clots. So if you're sitting in an airplane for 12 hours and you're not moving your legs and you have different changes in your air pressure, you're not hydrating adequately and you increase the risk of clotting. When magnetic fields remove that risk of clotting to a great extent, there's a natural painkilling effect of magnetic field therapy.
Natural is one of the first actions of a magnetic field is to decrease pain. And so you're decreasing pain by virtue of the pain receptors in the body. But you're also decreasing pain by decreasing inflammation. So one of the key elements of magnetic fields as I mentioned is inflammation reduction. Every cell in the body is impacted by the magnetic field. Or if there's a magnetic field for the whole body, all the cells in the body are influenced. And therefore you can decrease inflammation. And then you stimulate stem cells, you stimulate DNA and RNA and you stimulate protein production.
And so that's where the healing processes begin to kick in. So one of the examples I have in my Power Tools book is a three year old child who tore off the end of her thumb. And when she tore off the end of her thumb, I'm fortunate they called me right after it happened. We got them to sew it back on again. And in the Power Tools for health book I have pictures of that. You can see the suture marks and you can see that it's black pieces sewn back on. It's now black as you would expect because there's no blood supply.
It was torn off. So with magnetic field therapy, an hour to an hour and a half a day for three months, she was she regrew, regrew it. And now she's actually growing her name. I love your power tools book. I actually use that clinically almost daily. Because what is in there are all of the conditions that have research. So that would be my next question for you. What are the biggest conditions that have the more research or maybe some things that people haven't thought about, but also the biggies?
Well, we talked about pain. So really if you think about the basic actions of magnetic fields, those basic actions are not determined by the body. Well, it says they are determined by the body. They're determined by the magnetic field going through the body. And then they're activated. What the body does is the body will basically produce the action that it needs for the problem and have it that it has on hand, and then that depends on the intensity, the magnetic field, as does the inflammation.
So intensity becomes very important based on the fact that magnetic fields drop off very rapidly. Like the radiation analogy that we use, you need the right magnetic field intensity to decrease inflammation. You decrease inflammation. Now the body then begins to drive in oxygen. It begins to drive in nutrients. It begins to drive stimulate RNA and DNA. So it doesn't really matter what the condition. You understand those basic mechanisms they apply to almost all health conditions. Right. So basically pain, anything with pain you're already dealing with the pain.
And you don't want to just put a Band-Aid on the pain. You don't want to just put some ibuprofen on it or a Tylenol because it's going to come back if you don't heal the cause. So the magnetic fields help to decrease the pain, but at the same time, they're stimulating the healing in the body, which means that if you do that long enough, as the body needs to deal with the problem that you're that
Conditions, Brain Effects, and Choosing the Right Device 25:18
you're managing, then the pain doesn't come back because that's the goal. You don't want the pain to come back. You don't want to cover it up and just make you feel better temporarily. You want to heal it. So true. So that's that's applies to anything autoimmune diseases, arthritis, injuries and wounds. We talked about wounds. So basically almost anything detox happens with magnetic field therapy because you open up cells, nutrients get in better, waste gets out better. It stimulates the brain. You can stimulate, you can help to heal TBI, concussions and brain injuries.
It helps with Alzheimer's, helps with mood. I have an example with somebody, came to see me in the office who was extraordinarily anxious, and I put a magnetic field in the back of her neck. I had a frequency. Frequency that had a reasonable intensity, and I put it on the back of her head to stimulate relaxation in the brain, so that in that case, I was using frequency specifically for that purpose. I have the intensity I needed, but now I was generating the frequency I needed and that was theta.
So I put her on theta. So when you're anxious, you're in beta. Beta is the brainwaves that we're using when we're thinking and processing and learning. And you sound like we're both in beta right now. I certainly hope so. And hopefully, hopefully your viewers and listeners. So what happened is I put the coil on the back of her head. She was pacing. She wouldn't sit still. She was so anxious. So literally I put that on the back of her neck. She kept pacing and within about 3 to 4 minutes she sat down.
You literally could see the elevator going down. I just with the magnetic stimulation of the brain. So there's a lot we can do with the brain with therapy, not only tissue healing inside the brain. So if we had a stroke or if you had a brain injury, again, we can often heal the tissue. But we are also helping the brain to function better. So memory can improve with magnetic therapy concentration and focus. You can increase those. I had to, pick up my daughter from the airport in Baltimore at 2:00 in the morning.
She was supposed to arrive at 1030, but because of weather and delays, she didn't get in till two. And I had to get up the next morning and come to the office. Sure. So I put a magnetic field at the back of my neck. Same device that I used in that woman to. Now, what I do is I cranked up the frequency to be in beta, and mine, I was alert, I was alert until I picked her up. And when I got home, took the magnetic field off I went right to sleep. Wow. Right? It only worked for the time that I need it, but it was not.
It did not have a permanent effect, like coffee or something, where you have this lag effect afterwards and you can't go back to sleep, that the chemicals have to be processed by the body's magnetic fields. Don't do that. It's all frequency based. Got it? That is awesome. That's a great example as well. At the tail end of our interview, anything last words that you would like to share with our listeners and viewers? Probably the most important thing is that if you buy cheap, you get cheap. So you can't make your decision on how to buy a magnetic field system.
Based on just price. A lot has people get disappointed. I've used, high cost $6,000 machines and only produce one gauss. So I mentioned for, inflammation, reduce inflammation. You need about 15 gauss. Maybe I didn't mention that, but you need about 15 gauss optimally, wherever the target tissue is. So one gauss is not going to get anywhere. It's not going to go in into the body virtually at all. So you have to buy based on what you need to use the system for. And you may have to make an investment. Right.
These are not throwaway devices. Why don't you make your investment? This is something you and your family. I usually tell people that when you buy a magnetic system, you don't own it. Household, the dog, the cat and the plants. Right? Yeah, right. So supercharge your health. My latest book has more examples of how to consider getting a PMF system. Okay, okay. What parameters you have to look. Look at what kind of device do you need and how do you use it. So how do you choose it and how do you use it to get the best results?
So Supercharge Your Health gives you those guidelines for how to make the best choice. Again, you don't want to spend $400 for a machine that's not going to do you any good. Now you can spend $400 or $600 for a machine that'll help your tennis out. That's probably okay, but don't expect it to treat your brain. Yeah, don't expect it to treat your heart or your lungs. If you have long Covid or something, then you're going to need something stronger. It's going to do work much deeper into the body and the Supercharge Your Health book really gives you those guidelines.
Love it. Doctor Pollack, as per usual, thank you so much for sharing your wisdom and your knowledge with regards to Pmfs. Thank you. Also, before we close, I should say that if you don't want to buy the book yet, you get the e-book for $9. That's a great investment. We'll have all of your stuff wrapped around here. So we got you. We've got all your contact information for folks to check it out and, utilize. You are, the world renowned resource for PMA. Thank you, sir, thank you very much for.
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