When I have a new stage for cancer patient and I share some of these near-death stories, perhaps, and I point out to them, you know, if you've given life to the world, that can be you don't have to do anything dramatic if you just say, you know, kind words to everyone you meet.

If you smile, to everyone you meet. If you're making the world a better place, the downside is, ultimate bliss. So I tell them, you know, you're going to be fine.

Ultimate bliss is the downside. If you if you train, you know, this life span. I'm working for your family. They want to keep you around, but you yourself are.

And, and that's the most important thing in treating cancer patients. Because research showed that if you implant breast cancer in mice, for example, and then stress one group of those mice, the group that is stressed has a 30 fold increase in metastasis.

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Who is Doctor Roach? I see your profile here. You're a healer. You work in the spiritual, in a lot of spiritual work. You've written two books, I believe.

One called God House calls. The other one is called Vital Strategies and Cancer. And you really focus a lot of your, work on, I guess, oncology and end of life and outcomes and story, which is where I feel the story of medicine and the story of people's lives in the context of who they are.

And the condition really can teach us doctors, what it really means. We use creative, creative means to understand narrative. When we talk about illness, and I'm very, very fascinated to hear about the work that you've done, the stories that you have written about in, in with your patients and.

Sure. Tell me more. Yeah. And, I think if you were to say one, describe me in one word, I would hope that it would be healer. Yeah. Be how this messed myself with that. And.

Yeah, I basically started in conventional family medicine. I did that for 20 years, and then. And around 2000, I wanted to see how long and how well I could live.

I was approaching 50 years of age right. There was a conference in New York City that Andrew Wilde was putting on with Columbia University on integrative strategy and, on botanicals.

And I thought, well, I will never use botanicals in my practice. So, and New York City was not attractive at that point as a business, but my intuition said go.

And for some reason, I listened to my intuition and went and learned about botanicals and learned about a conference in Black Mountain, North Carolina.

Medicines from the Earth. And, yeah, I heard Donnie Yance speak water and use the top botanical medicine expert in the country, and he was head and shoulders above everyone else who was almost pleading with those attending who said, listen, we can have really great outcomes and cancer.

These are all the mechanisms that we can work on with that. And my colleague Robert Zeev said, I think I'm going to go to Ashland, Oregon and study with Donnie. And I said, I think I'll join you.

We each went three different times, and I learned about a botanical called Rhodiola rosea, and that was the one that convinced me that herbs are not placebo.

In fact, you know, each herb has hundreds, if not thousands of beneficial nutrients. And so my practice was being transformed. I was focusing originally on nutrition and supplements, and I've been a national consultant for, a company that does supplement testing.

And that led to speaking around the country at Mayo Clinic, at Boston and Los Angeles, at Miami and Houston and and so forth. And then around 2012, I had a patient who came in who described a spiritual near-death experience.

She had a car accident. She went out of body and, she, you know, was looking down and felt wonderful. And then she went back in body and was mad about that, was very upset.

And, but subsequently, she's, been very mission focused. But no longer had a fear of death. And I thought, oh, how fascinating. And I thought, well, what if I couldn't have it?

What if I didn't have a fear of death? And then I thought, what if I could convince my patients they didn't need to fear death? And I thought, oh, what a preposterous thought to ever do that.

But that's exactly what I do now, is convince them that, in fact, there's no need to fear death whatsoever. And I've had at this point, 104 patients with spiritual near-death experiences.

And I've had a thousand with transformative spiritual events, premonitions, intuitions, out-of-body experiences, voices, visions, dreams with meaning of seeing and sensing spirits.

I don't know about you, but they don't teach that in my medical school. It was a real revelation about all of that. And that led to my first book, God's House calls.

And I have written a third book, now called Brilliant, and I have more stories even in that book as well, along with, stories, relation in relation to key to main, to botanical experiences, even, talking about UFOs to some extent, but also basically it's about optimizing mood, optimizing brain health, and then optimizing our connection to divinity.

That's what the book is about. So and even, there's a fourth book that's just been released. I wrote a chapter in a book called Awakening Stories, and it goes into detail in terms of how I started out.

And then I reflecting. Yeah, it was probably Edgar Casey. I mean, if you're familiar with Edgar Casey or not, he's a famous Kentuckian that I'm proud of back.

And he was born in 1870, died in 1945. But he was a trans channel, and he only had a sixth grade education. But when he went into his trance, he could espouse these cures.

And some of these cures less secure. Some were conventional. But for example, when his wife had was severely sick and his doctor said, well, you better go into your trances and a spouse leaves cures or else you'll be dead in a week.

And he, in fact went into a trance and then gave a lecture on TB. And after he woke up, the doctor said, well, that's the best lecture I have ever heard.

And this doctor been an international lecture on tuberculosis. Prior to that, Edgar Casey consulted with Woodrow Wilson, Harry Truman, Nikola Tesla. Thomas Edison was highly regarded.

So I read his story when I was in high school, and that opened my mind to holistic approaches to healing, which, after the botanical conference, that really and the spiritual near-death experience for my patient that really open things up.

Thank you. I'd like to ask you a little bit more about what you described as spiritual experiences. And for our audience, it could mean many things. And I'm sure you've, as you've described so many of your patients and so many of their spiritual awakenings or their experience of near-death.

What are their features or how would you actually describe what is a spiritual experience? And first of all, I would mention I've had at least two patients who had negative near-death experiences and, they were very shook up by those experiences.

One was an alcoholic. And he immediately he didn't share the details of that experience, but he immediately turned 280 degrees. He stopped alcohol to children need a band aid.

He set up trust funds, and for the next two years, he did everything he could to make amends. Then he had another spiritual near-death experience and pulmonary ICU, and this time it was blissful.

So usually these experiences are individuals that, are dying or have died, if you wish. Not always. Sometimes they can be spontaneous out of the blue, but usually they have.

They've drowned or, and, you know, in surgery and they're out of body looking at themselves. And their heart has stopped. And, so they describe things in different ways, and all the stories have a different wrinkle to them.

They're not, you know, we heard the classic, you know, going through a tunnel to the light. And you do hear that story occasionally. But I think the commonalities are that it is blissful.

It's it's a place where they experience pure love. And to the glory that they can't describe it most of the time now, and not always to that degree, but for at least half of not most of the time they feel in a very blissful state with that, and they are greeted, often on the other side by potentially their predeceased ancestors and have a discussion with them.

But, they've met, holy figures at times as well. You know, they've met Jesus before or met other, holy figures. And, but sometimes it's just experiencing being in the light and being drawn to the light.

But they come back from these experiences. Well, first of all, I've had dozens of them say, you know, it's not your time. You have to go back and you go back and body associated with that.

So that's important to realize that we don't get to die prematurely. Now, I guess we can choose to go or drop off a cliff if we if we want to. But the time that we pass on and we all have an expiration date on our body, is it's not an accident.

Generally, it's some. And we don't get to die. We don't get to graduate prematurely. Is the way I put it to patients. My guests. Yeah. They may look like after they've had 1 or 2 experiences and they may want to graduate into ultimate blessing again.

But, no, you've got to finish your spiritual mission here on Earth before you get to to, move into that dimension associated with that. But they come back with a common feeling of, it's not about religion, it's not about dogma, it's about love.

It's what they come back. Not many of them have had life reviews with that. And so what I've learned, because from a number who share their life reviews, is that we are not judged on the other side, but rather it is our selves who do the judging.

And so, you know, one patient who was just out for seconds, but in those few seconds, every single little detail of her life, pro and con, she recalled.

And you experienced those, you know, the people that you've hurt, you feel like you're in their bodies and you. So you feel the hurt and pain that they experience from the negative things you did to them.

Their you feel what their family felt and you felt with their friends, felt as well. So that may be almost harsher. When we judge ourselves in that way rather than being judged by the creator.

So I, I'm, I'm very, very fascinated. I think what we witness as well in, ketamine treatments is, part of the effect of using ketamine, especially in end of life.

And there have been. And psilocybin and the work that, Bill Richards has, provided in his, in his work with psilocybin at Johns Hopkins. And he's written a book on, on it called Sacred Knowledge, where, you describe the different types of experiences categorically like this empathic and, you know, connection.

This, sense of consciousness and connection beyond our, beyond us, the ineffable components of what can be described but can be described, the noetic qualities of spirituality, meaning that the knowing of something, the deep understanding and the insights that come from sometimes spiritual experiences, in a very similar aspect, I would even say, is seen in patients who undergo ketamine treatment, where they have this sense of, as you describe, even that generational intergenerational connection to people that they've known in their past or even, you know, even into generationally.

And so there's just the the types of experiences that I've been able to, witness with patients with ketamine treatments has really been very, very profound.

Because, again, that spiritual experience that disassociation, from that body, from that mind, from the world and from that, you know, just that connection to something beyond beyond our, our, our, our reality of what we know is healing and and what and to me, I find, I find what component of that spiritual experience provides healing like with what makes that a healing experience?

It's the knowing. It's the knowing of the divinity that you're going to. We're going to survive for infinity. And it's that knowledge that we no longer need to worry about what's happening at the particular moment when, you know, depression is living in the past, anxiety is living in the future.

It teaches us, I think, to live in the moment and that everything is going to be fine. It teaches us that we're not. Our body is right. And that's the crucial message, right?

That that we're our spirit, not our bodies, becomes all sorts of that things happen to our bodies. But I think and and it's not that those things are wrong.

It's for us to learn that those are lessons instead of mistakes or instead of, some evil thing that happened per say. It was, you know, they're individuals certainly that are, have done, you know, erroneous, erroneous things.

I mean, yes, things I should say, and, you know, those are unfortunate, but these are growth experiences for all involved. And so if we learn that we're not our body, that we're just our soul, and that these are soul lessons, then we grow.

And that's really our purpose here on earth, in my opinion, is to grow our soul as much as possible. So if we view every single thing as a lesson, I think a key thing is learning not to repeat those lessons right?

Learn it the first time and then move on. But letting go of the obsession of our bodies and focusing obsessing instead on our spirit and learning unconditional love and learning continuous gratitude, but also learning authenticity.

Opening that third chakra, speaking our voice. You know, we've we've learned a lot in our life, and we're not supposed to keep that a secret. We're supposed to share that wisdom.

But so many of us feels that we will offend someone. Or and it's not that we want to be judgmental per se in terms of our comments about others, but we can ask non-gender damn judgmental questions to kind of open up on issues that are important.

The wisdom that we've learned, we need to share that dutiful. Yes. That's, the wisdom that can be shared, that can be experienced, that energy that. So what can be learned in this lifetime for, for whatever comes after?

We don't know. But how that can be such an essence and create that sense of connection, what have you what the work that you do is, as a physician, and in oncology, I believe in the work that you've done and the stories that you, you write about in with your patients.

What would you say heals in their condition when it comes to, you know, terminal illness? Say, you know, cancer? When I have a new stage for cancer patient, you know, I share, some of these near-death stories, perhaps.

And I point, to them, you know, if you've given life to the world. And that can be you don't have to do anything dramatic if you just say, you know, kind words to everyone you meet.

If you smile, to everyone you meet, if you're making the world a better place, that the downside is, ultimate bliss. So I tell them, you know, you're going to be fine.

Ultimate bliss is the downside. If you if you train, you know, this life span. I'm working for your family. They want to keep you around, but you yourself are grumpy, and, and that's the most important thing in treating cancer patients, because research showed that if you implant breast cancer in mice, for example, and, and stress, one group of those mice, the group that is stressed has a 30 fold increase in metastasis.

If you give the drug propranolol that blocks adrenaline, that prevents most of those metastases. So number one with my cancer patients is getting them into a peaceful state.

Now there's supplements that help with that process. For example I use inositol. P6I6 stands for nasal extra phosphate kinase. And inositol has been demonstrated in research in that form, particularly to both be preventive as far as cancer and also be, helpful in protecting this angiogenesis and metastasis.

In research was inositol is shown that at 4000mg every eight hours, that it was just as effective as SSRI antidepressant like so laughter or Lexapro for example, for managing, anxious depression.

So that particular supplement is both uplifting and anti-tumor and its effects. And part of that is that it reduces your estrogen levels. It reduces your dihydrotestosterone levels.

And both of those are drivers of tumors. Excess estrogen and imbalance in that direction promotes inflammation and angiogenesis. And so really in all my tumor management cases, I'm focused on bringing estrogen levels down and, bringing dihydrotestosterone levels down, but yet supporting testosterone, which is needed for the immune system.

You need a strong immune system in that process. So guess how you block those downstream pathways from testosterone, digestion, testosterone, DHT, number one, vitamin D blocks those pathways.

Number two, fish oil blocks those pathways. Now, when I'm talking to male patients, you have to phrase everything in terms of testosterone. That's how you.

So I tell them, you know, with vitamin D days, you want to increase your testosterone 20%, take your vitamin D days, you prefer estrogen, skip your vitamin D, was fish oil, days.

You want to grow your testicles, take your fish oil days. You'd rather they shrink? Skip your fish. All right, men, hear that? Okay. Also, turmeric, you know, boost testosterone lowers or higher testosterone.

Zinc in the same way. And the opposite of zinc in this regard is copper. Copper's in nuts, dark chocolate, avocados, avocados are still healthy, but you want to maybe take a zinc pill whenever you eat an avocado with that.

But there are other nutrients. Resveratrol for certain cells, even vitamin B2, green tea, all of those modulate hormones in a favorable way and are effective in management of tumors.

I, I wholeheartedly agree. I think when I talk to patients, I talk I really talk at the level of the cell. Right? We really have to be thinking about the cellular health, not just the organ health, because we in medical school, we're taught organ systems, we talk about the cardiac system, and we do learn a lot of biochemistry and microbiology.

But really our focus in terms of treatment becomes very system space. So if we really look at metabolic health, right, really look at the mitochondrial health and what's really happening metabolically.

And inositol is one great example of that. You know, in, in the, in the regulation that inositol provides, at that membrane level, and cell signaling level, so that insulin receptivity is much more enhanced.

Right. My own asset all is my. And I was going to show you my drink every morning, you know, my inositol. And the benefit that it helps in, my daily, my daily workout, you know, helping me when I know that I'm going to be nervous or tense or have a stressful day.

I really want to ensure that I have my my inositol in my water because, again, that neuro regulation, that effect of neural regulation as you've described, even with l-theanine, with, turmeric or the anti-inflammatory effects at the cellular level, which is I think, vital for, you know, cellular function.

Right. All these components and quercetin being the anti-inflammatory substance that helps, these are all nature based, all nature based. And they're they're in nature for a reason.

I would say absolutely. And that's my belief as a suspect. It sure is that all the cures are out there. If we would just spend a fraction of the research that we do with pharmaceuticals, we could find the answers essentially to everything.

It's all there. And you say for a purpose with that, I would want to mention if I can, I listen to a Japanese presenter who had cancer and his cancer cells spoke to him and said, we don't want to be delinquent, to be healthy.

But, you know, these toxins were destroying our mitochondria. We didn't have any injury energy because our mitochondria were dead. So it's like drowning.

You're gasping for air and they always survive this to multiply. Right. So maybe one approach, and dealing with tumors is instead of trying to nuke them and destroy everything is to maybe nurture the cells and love the cells and if you bring their mitochondria back to health, that may take away the need for them to multiply.

So, you know, or in other words, it's, it's. Yeah, exactly. I think pathology, we're focused on pathology. But if we really think about what's, what's healing, what could and I say to patients like you, heal my well, right.

Heal the wellness in me, supports the health of the organ and not destroy it. Support it. So that just like when you garden, you want to put healthy soil in it, and and the weeds will go away, right?

Naturally, as you really vitalize it and really support that plant that you're putting in the ground or growing from the seed. I'm very, so curious, though, about what we were speaking about earlier, about what heals in spirituality, what component of cellular health heals with spiritual, with the spiritual experience.

What would you say? So a let me go into quantum science a little bit quantum physics, because I think that helps in understanding the answer with that.

You know, it was 1905 when quantum science, but yeah, I think that's when Einstein pronounced equals MC square energy interchanges with mass. And that was a profound, discovery on Einstein's part.

But 60 years ago, there was an extremely important experiment called the double slit experiment. And in that experiment, he took a barrier and put two vertical slits in the barrier.

And then there was a photosensitive wall behind the barrier. And then you take a photon, and it will go through one of those slits and make a mark on the back.

Well, that's if someone is observing. If no one is observing what happens, the whole wall lights up in an interference pattern. Or is that what's happening?

It's not a photon going through. It's waves that are going through both slits and marking up the whole wall. Now, if you take a video recorder and videotape it, what happens?

You see only one mark. But if you take the battery out of the video recorder, but maybe a small battery and make a little red bleep to make it look like look like it's recording what happens.

The whole wall lights up. In other words, waves have a consciousness and that is huge because everything is, Well, actually we're surrounded by waves, which are really just possibilities.

We're surrounded by possibilities that only particulate when we observe them. Okay. So literally you're creating our reality as we're going along. Who would want to?

Well, of course, the work of mushrooms. Soto in Japan. Very profound. That was a New York Times bestselling book. Yeah. You took two containers of water, and he sent loving messages to one container.

He sent hateful messages to the other container of water. He then froze it, slice it, looked on the microscopes and under the container. Recent loving messages, beautiful crystals and the other container which received table messages.

Chaotic structure. He then just wrote on a piece of paper loving messages, taped it on to one container, hateful messages, taped it on to the other container.

He got the identical results and that research was published. It was peer reviewed. It was duplicated again and again. Okay, so this is reality. Water knows when it's being loved and when it's being hated.

And we are 70% water. I also to get perspective, think of an atom that has a nucleus that's one inch in diameter, but the diameter of the atom is one mile.

In other words, we are 99.999999999% hot air. In other words, we are extremely porous. When we're in particle shape. We may go back and forth between particles and and waves, 20,000 times every nanosecond.

But that's profound because every thought we're generating waves, and if we're generating positive waves, that has an immediate healing effect. We're having negative waves.

And immediate detrimental effect over the news is on in the background the immediate detrimental effect on our health with that. So if we can control our thoughts, our words, and if we control what we hear and what we write and act, then it's my belief that if we can have thoughts that are positive 24 over seven, that we can heal any disorder.

And so just learning how to do that, of course, is the trick. And I can share ideas about that. Oh please do. And for our audience I'd like them. I'm going to put poster some of the some of the work that we're talking about AMA inositol in the show notes.

And then I'm referencing what you've also mentioned about the, the, the pseudoscience of creating something beautiful or ugly water. The work of that Japanese doctor that you described.

And I'll put that in the show notes, but I'd love to hear more about how waves, and sound or quantum waves carry emotion. How would that be? How what would be to say?

Because they're a real thing. They have a consciousness. And of course, everything you know equals MC squared. Everything is made out of waves. And then my go to particles back to waves.

But that means, you know, this chair I'm sitting in has a consciousness and this house has a consciousness now, hopefully not the same level as we have we ever just this and then, you know, the creator has much, much, much, much greater consciousness than all of that.

But everything is alive, you know, pebbles are alive. And once we know that and respect that, and that is transformative, in my opinion. And, so just like in a children's book, if you wake up in the morning and say thank you bed for allowing me to rest, thank you.

Pillow, you get in your car and you say thank you, car for transporting me. Those positive energy thoughts are very healing because the more love we send out into the world, that's another law of physics, right?

Where every action, there's a reaction. If we send out love, guess what? We're going to receive back love with that. And I also meant to share, you know, elite athletes, if they want to win a race, what do they do?

They visualize winning that race. And because they visualize it, they're more apt to cross the finish line. So if we in terms of what we want in life, you know, we create our reality.

So what we need to do is let you know the creator, know our wishes and our intentions. Let the universe know that because just by sending those thoughts into the universe that is creative in its effects and those go out to the end of the universe.

And so every thought we have has a universal impact, important so that it's one thing to do good deeds, but it's it's our thoughts. They are every bit as important as the deeds that we perform.

Yeah. Not only is it an expression of what's said to all the living things, as well as the life around us and the energy and, but also within us as that act and that performance of that, that expression has a physiological effect on our internal systems as well, since we're all connected, if you're getting chemotherapy, you know, visualize that as kind of gold, pure energy and light and love going into your body.

It's going to work much more effectively. If it's being appreciated, and loved as it goes into your system. And the same thing if you're getting radiation, send love and appreciation to magnify the positive outcome that that will have it.

I had a patient who, had ALS, came in a wheelchair, and was, did ketamine treatment and part of his, treatments and really involved him listening to the music and visualizing his nerves, growing and regenerating.

Because in ketamine, we talk about regeneration rate. It's, it's a it has that effect of neuronal, dendritic brain, budding and, making new connections and also the pruning of inflammatory pathways or, conduction systems.

But and after a series of sessions, each time he would described his, he had more strength to the point that by the end of his eighth session, he was able to get up out of his wheelchair and make steps towards a bathroom, which was something that took a lot of effort, an extensive amount of effort and energy, just to even make that it that, that attempt, and the stability even that he described in his gait and his posture and, just by doing the visualization of, in the experience, with a medicine that again and again has that possible activation on the neuronal system, and, and even with music, very particular about his music, because we do talk about, sound waves.

Right. And that, neuronal regulation that happens with entrainment to, say, the matching of sound and resonance of sound with, again, electrical conduction and that regulation in, in a, in a system where when we have patients who are anxious or depressed, if you look at their, EEG patterns, there is a lot of inflammation.

You can actually see inflammatory waveforms, dysregulated waveforms, and while listening to music, those waveforms become much more attuned, much more rhythmic, and match that circadian rhythm that's in the body.

Fascinating. Yeah. I can share an ALS story. Sure. Joy had a gentleman come. He was a farmer, and, learned that oftentimes Lyme disease is an underlying cause of ALS.

So once I learned that, I did testing and in fact, was testing, kind of confirmed that he had Lyme disease. And at that point I thought, oh, wow, I can cure him.

I can give him all of the side of the antibiotic and, and get him. Well, and it was a natural path that, educated me on this topic. And so, you know, the doctor these days give specific antibiotic consistent forms, antibiotic for the intracellular.

And so all, forms as well. So I did that for started for six weeks. And he went into a coma. And the natural path, when he talked to me, said, oh, yeah, he would have predicted that.

And while he was in a coma in the hospital for a week, he was with Charlie on horseback. And Charlie finally told him, you can't stay here. You have to go back.

You have 2 or 3 more. So to say. So he woke up and he recovered rather quickly there in the hospital. And, he after that, his strength picked up. He was given kind of a double dose testosterone, along with other strategies of supporting his mitochondria and so forth.

And he was at home now and actually his is love that because when he was a farmer, he was always out visiting with other farmers and he was never at home.

But with the ALS, he was right there with them, could share with them. And so they loved that. And so he lived another two years, and he had, in fact saved many more souls than 2 to 3 with that. But, oh, lovely story.

Both. Before he got to die, I had to save those 2 to 3 souls. Oh, what a beautiful story that is. How do you capture these stories with, And these are patients that you work with directly?

And, of course, in their spiritual experience, this is a very special, type of experience that they may be having in their with their illness and, you know, capturing that.

How how do you do that? Well, after my first patient with spiritual near-death experience, I became very inquisitive. And, patients that I encountered after that, I use that example of the spiritual near-death experience and ask them, have you had anything unusual like that happened to you?

And that's when stories started opening up. And often I would hear, well, I haven't even told my spouse this, but and stories are amazing. For example, coleus.

So, I young Afro-American, at 18 years of age, he, could have been drafted to Vietnam. Instead, he volunteered and went to Okinawa. And he was kind of a restless guy.

He was driving a Jeep and nearly went over a cliff, but instead ran into a building and went into a near-death state where experience the divine. And after that, for the next ten years, he traveled the world to.

He studied every little religion. And in India he was telepathically communicating with the yogis there. But at the end of ten years, he was starting to have his doubts.

And he finally said, God proved to me the reality of you, be careful what you ask for. I can't cross four lanes of traffic and T-boned him, ripped half his nose off.

He had so many fractures in his face it took several pages. Described the radiologic fractures. They were seen on X-ray, and once again, he went into a near-death state.

He said he felt like he was naked, sitting in a chair in the middle of New York City. He couldn't get under it, couldn't get around it. It was very dark.

And then he felt himself going down a river, and there were an individual on the bank who he intuited were his ancestors. And then it started to become light.

And then he felt, in the presence of the Almighty said. And, the once again felt the ultimate bliss and love. So he didn't ask that question any further, and he didn't have any doubts after that.

But a profound experience. And I've had, you know, some personal experiences, a number of metaphysical experiences happened to me. Not any to that degree of being profound.

But for example, when my wife and I would go out and walk in the evenings, the street lights, you know, 50, 50, they're going to turn on or turn off when you're walking around.

But seven out of eight times they would turn off and one out of eight times they would turn on. And seven. I figured out it was when I'd done good things that they I would turn on.

And then when, I'd not done good things, it would turn out, actually, it was the opposite. It would turn off when I'd done good things, I would turn on shedding light on that.

I need to do things better like that. But it was not 5050. It was very definitely, you know, like, 70. It was like 85 to 15% with that. But, also I've had precognitive dreams, that's impacted me.

But probably one of the more profound things is I had a new patient come to see me. She was, I think, from Colorado. And, she'd had three spiritual near-death experiences.

The more of those experiences you have, the more intuitive you become. And the word Ashland and the vision of a college on the Hill came to mind. And it was a riddle.

And she didn't know what the answer was, but she knew she had to find that answer. She went to Ashland, Oregon, to visit Lithia Springs, there to try to find answers and could not find answers.

She and her husband then moved to Central Kentucky. She came to see me as a new patient, and if she left my town, she saw that there was a college on a hill on the edge of town.

She looked me on YouTube. She found a testimonial gave from a dairy foundation in Ashland, Oregon, and figured out I was the one that connected the dots.

So she showed up a month after her first visit and my wife was a receptionist. She said, well, I've got to see Doctor Roach today. And my wife explained that I was booked out three months and she said, no, you don't understand.

I need to see him today. My wife's new to work here and I walk in the patient's room and she says, you're probably going to think I'm crazy, but. And she takes my finger is the index finger than the metal one and the fourth and then back to the middle one.

And I had planned to have, integrative conference. I had not announced where it was going to be. And I told even my wife that I would think where it was going to be.

I just decided a month before, and it was going to happen a month later, and I charged. I'd been kind of coached to charge a big price for this conference, and, I'd only had 2 or 3 people sign up, partly because the expense and the so the message, she said, is that this conference that you're having at Midway University is supposed to happen.

And that's the message I have for you. And she said, it's a powerful message because it costs me to go to Ashland, Oregon, and cause my husband and I'd moved to Kentucky to come see you, to give you that message that that conference was supposed to happen.

So we did go forward. I only had about four people at the conference, but it was a successful conference. And I had just this past October, just a couple of months ago, our 11th conference in a row.

And until I get a message to stop those conferences, I will continue to hold them. But we've had individuals, we have doctors come from London, England, from the practitioners from Canada, from many from Seattle and so forth.

Come to Central Kentucky to learn integrative, holistic and now spiritual, modes of management of patients. So I do feel like that's had a big impact.

It's still arrived early in my gathering. We have about 24 that came, but that was a sellout, believe it or not, because that's all I could fit into, the space where we were having our conference.

So it's. I think it's a it's a great source of, of comfort when patients come to you and almost like they know there's this knowing that they've known you.

There is they you can see them, you can really sit with things that would be very bizarre or very odd and not the usual way of, you know, my patients reveal their story, but the meaning that one makes of those, can be really beyond what we would beyond what you would normally expect for yourself.

Beyond what? I love that the message in spirituality lights up. And expands our way of thinking. I love how that opens up new ways of kind of understanding ourselves and our lives and and even the lives that we connect with.

Tell me one story that really you described in the beginning and that negative element of of spiritual experience, what meaning does one make of those when things can be fearful and quick?

I think it means to shape up for the good things that we do that are these things right then and not like? It's not my belief that there's a hell per se, though, you know, I've had, patients.

I had one patient describe flying over the the Valley of Death and looking down and seeing bones in the mud with that. But, you can look at, I think having to judge ourself as a real negative experience on the other side.

But if we generate a lot of low vibrations in our life, then when we go to the other side, that's what we'll be attracted to. We'll end up being with other entities of souls that have also generated negative vibrations.

And that's not the type of company that I would want to be keeping, after expiring. That's kind of the message I'm getting from some individuals. Of course, the many different messages, views, or another way to think about it is just separation from the creator, right?

If you're completely separated alone by yourself for infinity, you know, that's that's, could be quite a hellish, type of experience as well, mitigate the interactions that make life worthwhile.

And the same on the other side, being able to interact with other energies there. What do you think brings people to fear death? What is it about death that we're really fearing?

Is it the process of dying and the pain of dying or separation as you described, or from our from our family? From my loved ones? Or is it the unknown, the uncertainty, or is it actually a place of fear?

Is it the place of hell that we fear, or that decision, that judgment? And where does these come, come, from? Certainly, you know, for a few, there's the fear of hell.

I'm I kind of live in the Bible Belt in the, in the south part of the country where many people have been taught that the God is very judgmental. And, so you need to cross your t's and dot your upwards, or else you'll end up in a hellish place. And.

And I'm getting the opposite message from under your death. Patients. God is love. Period. And so, but I think it's the finality is part of it. And thinking that that things will be over forever if the time of death for some.

Yeah. And particularly for cancer patients, I think the worry about pain, and dying and, or maybe giving up dignities in the process of death can be part of the, the but you can think of fear as being kind of the opposite of love.

And you can't love and fear simultaneously. And so, you know, care for fear is maybe, praying and getting in the state of, of love. And often it's praying for other individuals.

So I try to pray with my new cancer patients at the end of the visit. And after I have them set that intention for what it is that they want, like visualize that grandchild, you know, graduating from college.

All right, smell it, taste it, you know, elaborate as much as you can in your visualizations. With that, I lost my train of thought that, these techniques that you describe.

Tell me more about, what are the techniques that are used with your patients to when they said that sense of. Yeah. So number one, that your intentions before you get out of bed, after you go to bed at night so that you're the what you want to happen in the world, let it be known and you know, Jack Canfield.

And there is a documentary, I think The Secret. Right. And that's one strategy for if you want to become rich, you can taste, magazine pictures of rich people in your room and, you know, visualize that.

And sure enough, it works. Because if that's what you're thinking about, 24 seven, that's what will happen. But that doesn't translate into happiness.

Those are two different things. I'm so saying those intentions. Number one. Number two, make an angry list. Remember when you've been angry with your whole life and send love to those people on a daily basis?

Number three, forgive three people every day, and maybe there's some you need to ask for forgiveness from as well. With that number 410 things you're grateful for every morning and then ten different things you're grateful for every evening.

And if you have low self-esteem, write down ten things that you like about yourself every day. Because guess what? The creator doesn't make any mistakes.

You're not an accident. You're perfect the way you were created. None of us make mistakes. None of us have missed opportunities. Everything has happened just the way it was supposed to.

But we can, you know, still through free will, create, what we want by setting those intentions. True. There. If you have a negative thought, you have maybe 17 seconds to you can say cancel, cancel to get out of that negative side and switch gears and a positive thought that you have 17 seconds to keep it from snowballing into a second and third negative thought.

With that, and when you switch, you know, emotions are not supposed to be part of what the brain is doing. The brain is supposed to solve problems. It's not supposed to. We get tangled up in emotions.

So when you find yourself getting emotional, might take some belly breaths and chest belly breaths and switch out of your brain into your heart, which is about love and peace.

Okay? And so your those emotions will fade away as you move into that heart space with them. So those are some of the things I have a spiritual the handout that lists, 25 or 30 other, strategies along with those.

Oh, wow. This is something sounds fascinating. And it definitely, can be so applicable to in our healthcare field. As a pediatric hospitalist, witnessing death, of a child is very, very painful, even for the family and less for the child, but more for the family and for even the providers and clinicians.

I can remember every one of my patients, family, especially as, as, you know, as, as they had to release their child to another, another place. And that witnessing, and the solutions that's the key is, you know, that that grows their faith and they have to explore to understand how could that happen?

And as your faith grows, then you learn. Or maybe that soul decided before it was born that this was going to happen at this time. And then another perspective is that another soul may be sent down to replace the soul that that died, or that particular soul is not, you know, is not gone forever, that it will experience life.

Again. So yeah, it's there growth opportunities. But yes, when it happens to our child, it's such a, initially a profound grief experience, but but if we learn quantum physics and the rest of this, it totally changes our perspective about those events. Yes.

I worked overseas for ten years. And was able to witness and the the importance of the spiritual component in the hospital room. Often patients would have a spiritual prayer going on, on the TV screen.

It wasn't usual CNN. It was actually they would have, you know, spiritual prayers. At the bedside, there would be people coming in and families coming in, to be with the child and be with the family.

And there were, you know, a lot of special, moments, I think, and I was able to witness that peace. Very sacred time. It's it is a sacred experience. And the healing, even with pain, healing, even with pain.

And the there is a there's an element of beauty and poetry in that healing with pain. And that's a lot of the works, of of dying. In that release and that component of what is felt and what is experience, can be really painful.

But again, what emerges is something beautiful and a different art form and a different expression and different creativity, you know, and and the importance of love and the importance of connection and the importance of those moments that are more authentic.

And I'm sure you've heard the reports of, and some individuals can visualize, you know, Jesus or predeceased ancestors or some other holy figure coming down, an angel coming down, grabbing the hand and taking that soul upward.

Right. Some people can visualize that, others can sense that. But that when you do understand that, that that completely changes the perspective. It becomes a celebration.

Thank you for tuning in to Doctor Talks. We hope today's episode has enlightened and inspired you on your path to optimal health. Each day is a new opportunity to make choices that empower your well-being.

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Real talks from real doctors on the issues that matter to you most.

Spiritual Experience as a Healing Modality in Medicine – Part 1

Jim Roach, MD, ABIHM, ABOIM

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