Spoil Your Baby Ep 41 – Self-Mothering: Your Most Important Parenting Job feat. Dr. Gertrude Lyons

Opening and guest introduction 0:00

you know, losing yourself in that atmosphere and you're still merged and, you now, just because they've come out of you, there's, those, well, I forget those are the phases how you articulate them post-birth. I don't know. It's really cool. But you don' just give birth and then you are done, right? Like you were still birthing. And that's something I came to realize too in this like, We're constantly birthing ourselves. We are constantly letting go of, which birth is, right? Of these beings that have come through us throughout motherhood.

Hello, everybody. Welcome to Spoil Your Baby podcast. I am so happy to be here today with Dr. Gertrude Lyons. She is a master coach, a podcast host, an incredible podcast I was recently on as well, and a thought leader who's helping women rewrite outdated narratives around motherhood, which I think is so, so needed, and also around their identity and self-worth, which I can't, very much needed. So thank you so much for being here. I'm so excited for everyone to get to know you. Oh, Greer, thank so you, Thank you for having me, for that introduction, For being on my podcast, Which was amazing and wonderful.

Yeah, I still love your work, incredible and needed and beautiful. Thank you. That was one of the best podcast interviews I've done. It was such a great conversation. And like I said at the time, we really went, like, further with this, with, you know, the whole subject matter, so I really appreciated that. So anyone who's listening, listen to that one too. Yes, please. A fantastic podcast. I have been getting into it myself lately too, So, your work is around what you call rewriting the mother code, or re-writing-the-mother-code framework, which you developed after a pretty in-depth doctoral thesis.

Will you tell us a little bit about that? I actually want to ask you for a copy of your thesis, because... Oh, yeah, the rare people who actually, you know, kind of get into that. That's why I said I had to write like a mainstream book because nobody reads your dissertation.

Rewriting the mother code 2:30

And yes, I set that at my book launch and a woman raises her hand. I read it. One of this whole crowd that did. So thank you. No, i'd be happy to. Cool. Yeah. If you want me to start there, because it it, you know, that Diving into the doctoral work and an in-depth study of this came out of my lived experience, both where I had felt like I'd really tried to bring consciousness, awareness to my mothering, to motherhood, and then realizing Wow, even amidst being a coach, feeling like I had support around me, I lost myself.

There were places where when I looked I'm like, oh I stopped mothering myself, working on myself and really lost my self and my children. So if that happened to me What is it about this? Because I know the power of it, and I now the of putting ourselves in the mix, as you talk about too, like growing yourself up with your children, or like what's possible when we put ourselves into the picture. Yeah, so many mothers have that feeling. I, that strong desire to be mothered in the early days of motherhood and beyond, I'm sure too, but those are the moments I talk to a lot.

But that new mother had time. Oh my goodness. Yeah, for sure. And so it was out of that, a certain level of regret and remorse when I look back, that I don't want that to go to waste. And I still have, you know, a life to lead and mothering to do, even though, at that point, my kids were high school, college, right? So that's what launched me into the doctoral. The thesis was around raising women's awareness in the possibility of, your own personal growth, transformative experience in motherhood.

Beautiful. So it was. I did a curriculum evaluation study, so I, you know, brought women together who didn't have children yet, because at that point I was like, wow, what can I what? Can I get in women's brains? What can i get them thinking about being with before our brains have already changed and we're already in it? And even though you still can and I want women to explore this. Yeah. We don't really learn very much at all about any of this before, which is probably not historically the case, as I'm sure you also looked at.

Exactly, right? Because historically we were learning by the community around us. being in those spaces. So yeah, we do. I mean, that certainly was one of the first thing I learned is it's we, one the codes that came forth so strongly, I didn't call them those then when I was doing the study, but, you know, the, were alone in the in this endeavor that the right, there's a right way to do it and all, all these aspects that if we could have a certain sense of ourselves and have worked on some of our own core sense self, you know, could we go into this experience, with a little more aware and well, anywhere from a Little to a lot and still know you're gonna get shaken like I did, right?

Like I thought I've done the work, I am so ready for this. Well, cause losing yourself is part of it, Right? You are becoming something. something else, right? But I think at the time I was going through it, it wasn't framed that way. So it was like, oh, my God, I've regressed, like I have regress. I lost everything. Exactly. And I love what you're saying. It was, God I needed to hear that back then. But it's part of the preparation, is to know that this will happen and it is okay. you know, losing yourself in that atmosphere and you're still merged and, you now, just because they've come out of you, there's, those, well, I forget those are the phases how you articulate them post-birth.

I don't know. It's really cool.

Motherhood, identity, and losing yourself 7:00

But you don' just give birth and then you are done, right? Like you still birthing. And that's something I came to realize too in this like, We're constantly birthing ourselves. We are constantly letting go of, which birth is, of these beings that have come through us throughout motherhood. I learned that big time when my daughter got married. Talk about a surreal experience. So, back to the curriculum evaluation study, this group of women, and they were anywhere from, gosh, I really want to have children, but I don't know.

I'm not, don t even have a partner. Don t know if it's going to happen, to I Don't want t have Children. Pretty sure I d n't, too. You know, yeah, married and I know it s going t happen. But I want o be prepared. So it was a whole really good spectrum. His part of the work is to is how do we make even that choice more discerning, right? How do put ourselves and use that as a vehicle to bring up unfinished business, to just being in that question and what it stirs up for you, and then going into it can reveal so much.

And that's one of the things I shared in the book and didn't realize was, would have never understood until I went through it to realize like, Whoa, like I was someone who, of course I want to have children, you know, it's not if, but when, um, But then when I would've birth control and I wasn't getting a period it, It was, Oh, Like what's going on here. Right. And the medical, full on medical model would to me just, you know, get on the fertility track and medications and that's what I was invited to do.

And I like, there's gotta be more to before I do that, right? Like this, I don't think this should be my first line of the answer to this question. I'm so grateful and talk about a lot listening to our intuition and following that to get to a really deep awareness in place and realization that brought up So much unconscious unfinished business, but particularly a deep, deep fear that I had of being a mother. And, and then continuing generational trauma and being another like my mother and mothers before her had been that, you know, weren't healthy and, um, I didn't want to do that to a child.

And that was like, you know, huge. It was so much to be with. But, without that, I mean, literally the next month I started menstruating. I don't think that we can still make it happen, but like we miss out on things like that. So that's what I was inviting women to everything from, why being in the question, how do you discern it to What does motherhood really look like, the unvarnished version? What might you be up against for yourself personally? You know, like ask and dig into these questions.

But I think the biggest things, Greer, that came out of it, those were all important. What I was in the curriculum evaluation study, some of the things like bringing these things to light and preparing yourself not just physically, because that's what anybody talks about when they say they're gonna, you know, start trying to have a baby is, take prenatal vitamins. Like somehow that message has made its way into, the cultural zeitgeist. I had someone ask me yesterday, they were like, I'm about to go off the pill, um, and I take really good care of myself after, what else should I do?

I was like... go find a Chinese medicine doctor. I was like, I'm sure, take whatever herbs they're gonna give you, do all the practices they are gonna tell you. But now that you're bringing up this emotional work, that's a really important part to add to it too. Exploring your relationship with motherhood is a great preparation. That's the big invitation. And then for these women who For women who are in the question of like, is this going to happen for me? I like feel like I want it, but it wasn't just that they wanted it.

It was what broke my heart was to hear some of the women. Who've who had built beautiful businesses or had become C CFOs of a big corporation and achieved a lot. missed out completely that they were already mothering, right? Like they... Yeah, that's a huge point that you make. We don't see it that way at all. Yeah. No. It's like, this is just this, and that was what they said, like this was just thing I was doing until I could, you know, do the thing that I'm here, I am supposed to do as a woman on the planet.

And nothing will be as important unless I get that. That doesn't take away the desire or an innate, wanting or desire to be a mother of a child. But if we don't expand that, then these women who've done such beautiful work, uh, end up feeling like failures, you know, or feeling, and we can mourn that loss, just like I've at a point mourned the loss of the life I would have had if I hadn't had children. Right. And that's a really controversial thing to like, you know, step into, but it was really important for me.

I was thinking when I Was working in the lab and my during my postdoctoral fellowship, sometimes I would have like a lineup beside my desk of people like

Preparing for motherhood with awareness 12:40

coming to talk to me about, like, work problems, personal problems. And I kept on joking. I didn't realize that was mothering at the time, but I was joking, I'm like the in-house therapist. Like I am not getting paid for this emotional work that I do. For the entire floor that are coming to be constantly. So I never thought of it that way before. Yeah. That's really funny. You know what that does is it puts us it connects us again, like reconnects us as women, one, you know, because we've been siloed and, once we take an identity or role, it's like, well, now I'm this, I am not that.

And, that's a whole other sphere that we didn't get a ton into. But when I shared with these women it was just something I decided to add in that I had heard and it, was so meaningful is that, we all mother and that where we can choose some other children. and have that experience, but we also do mother careers, relationships, pets, ideas, dreams, nurturing, caring, everything that that mother energy is, is mothering. And then add to that, that the most important person we need to mother is ourselves.

That is never said anywhere. No. And so we need to be, you know, and, your work ties into that so much, because we're looking at, this relationship with the baby and all that gets stirred up with that. And, the choice is, am I spoiling my baby? Am I not spoilling my babies? You know. Am i mothering too much? Exactly. Yes. We got into, that when I had you on and it's painful to see like, like the bind we get in, like we think these choices are so binary. And then unfortunately, you know, having all, kind of bought into it at a certain level, because I don't blame anyone in particular for that we're in an over-masculinized, value dominated culture that, doesn't honor these spaces and phases and It is so siloed, and it's like, you're either doing this or you are doing that.

And, oh, by the way, along the ways, ages ago, still, it hasn't gone away. What are all the other ways we can disempower women? How many ideas and stories are in our head that are inhibiting us from mothering? that personal expression and growth that we want. Exactly, and keeping us apart is one of them, right? Like, because we're told, like, this is something that, you know, that there's a way to do it right. And doing it all yourself gets woven in there, I've talked to so many women who like asking for help or needing support is a mark against you versus, no, it's just the natural way this should be happening, but we've, We haven't seen our mothers do it.

We've seen them sacrifice, you know, why the subtitle of my book from Sacrifice to Stardust, and what that sacrifice keeps us from the self-realization, keeps a separate from ourself, when we're doing a duty. And it's always so confusing because it is something when were doing it we love, right? And its so magnificent and so beautiful. Were just trying to weed out these parts that that are making it where all the guilt comes up or the shame or you know, the aspects that our disempowering so that we can have more of this experience for ourselves and grow and learn and transform from it.

I mean, there's so much warning. It's like, you're never gonna sleep. it's hard. You'll lose your mind. Sleep is hard, breastfeeding's hard. Everything's harder. And I'm always like, what if? Yeah, they are hard because we have all the barriers that you just mentioned. But what is with that difficulty that's also transformative, beautiful, meaningful, healing, and I love that like sacrifice to stardust. What if it's like connecting you with oneness and nature and just who you're meant to be. You said it perfectly.

Everybody should wish, should expect and wish for, right? But we're just trying, we think the best is we can get through it, and then like get our body back, get back to normal. Just even like have as many babies as close together as possible because it's hell and you should just get the whole phase done right away. Oh, I haven't heard that one. Oh my gosh. Mm hmm. Wow. It's tough. Well, and it's that it''s recontextualizing, it' giving us a framework to look at pain, to lo at what is hard, like what i this process entail involving because there's a big distinction between pain and suffering, right?

Like we can suffer through all this, but in my research, I also found that that chaotic, maybe we talked about this the caterpillar to butterfly gelatinous mass period of new motherhood is the ripest time for transformation, for rewiring, you kind of feel like, oh my God, how could I it feels like another to-do versus like, no, it's a natural, we just need to turn ourselves to it a little bit.

Mothering beyond children and self-mothering 18:40

And... That's really nice reframing. Because that transformation's gonna happen no matter what. It's like you're given a gift that if you interact with it, becomes an enormous gift. I mean, that's not even more than that, but... It is, and still, like even seeing it as a gifts, seeing your pain as gift, you know, conduit, you know, to the divine, like we talked about, as opposed to just this thing you numb or get over with, right? And I think that- People are missing out. They're really missing.

And it's not their fault again, we talk about it. It's society that's structured that way to kind of steal this away from others. I know. You know I wrote this, surprisingly, like these aspects that got into my book that I was not expecting at all. And some of it was kind of poetry or just like letting, you know, stream of consciousness, thoughts come through. Beautiful. One of them was this, this like, that pain was, is a made up construct in some ways, right? Like that no, and this power that's in it, was taken from us.

But then what came through was it wasn't necessarily taken from us. It's just as likely that it was freely given. Like we gave it up for the greater good because that's kind of what we, the feminine does, right? Or feminine values. You think more collaboratively or more about like what's good for everybody versus just what good's for myself. So whether that true or not, you know, or like we find evidence to me, it's letting ourselves believe there's other, there're more expansive ways than what we're told by, you know, families in current culture.

You know our consensual reality at this given time. Yeah, such a beautiful invitation from others that like there is so much more. There is like such beautiful side to this. And it's like, that's not the main, it is not what most people are hearing, so. I'll just add one more thing to that because I think that that disempower or that, you know, once we've locked into that belief, pain is bad, avoid it. And, I'm all for women making whatever birth choice is right for them. But I, and I also think knowing that oh, this pain as informative, This pain has a part of motherhood.

If I can't handle it or I am not strong enough or that this is something that you just avoid, then that's going to carry forth. I'm not going have the same level of self-efficacy or sense that reality that you know, painful things will continue to happen. How am I going to deal with them? And so to me, it's more being in the inquiry of how I'm going deal them and know what all my choices are, and then choose what's right for you, but not out of a vacuum or feel like, oh, well, this is the choice because this what my family did or my doctor tells me.

Um, and I'm never dispensing medical advice. I always have to make that disclaimer. Um... But be curious, right? Ask questions, understand, so then we can be that much more empowered in our motherhood. Yeah, I just had this idea you were talking just now. Like, if you know that there are many women going through the transformation to mother hood, who are coming through, you now, the first couple years, um, feeling Like, they've healed through this experience, through that pain, you know, whatever perceived pain or suffering there is there alongside the beauty.

You know that people are emerging, feeling like nothing else was so healing or meaningful or beautiful that they ever experienced, because they leaned into this, into the transformation and all the things that you talk about. Um... And there is that, like having that faith that you're gonna get through and there's gonna be beauty at the other side. I think the alternative by not leaning in is actually leading to more, way more long-term pain and suffering because you are not going through that. You're not picking up that opportunity.

And actually, you know, possibly like wiring your brain towards more. suffering, worry, fear, and things like that. That's really important what you're saying. Thank you. Yeah. Well, amazing. Tell us more about your thesis. I want to hear more. So you talked to the people. We got the fact that we got out there that this can connect us as women and bring us power. And then you know, what does self-mothering look like? I didn't call it that, like, you now, in the study, it was just, that's something I've been like that emerged from me out of it, right?

Is, okay, I said that like we need to take care of ourselves. What does that mean? And what is that look? It's some of what we were just talking about, being curious, embracing idea. If someone shares their experience and you're like Oh, my God, I could never do that. Or, oh, that's wrong. Because certainly some of the choices I made, you make any choice outside of what everybody else is doing, people are going to hear about it, right? Whether it's from family, even friends and whatnot. So, absolutely.

I chose to have two homeburs. And I was called everything from reckless to selfish, for that, and... what, that it was all about me to do that. Well, some level it, was so back to the self-mothering, like when I looked at the choices and weighed everything from birth outcomes to like, you know, how are we going to be safe in this? But honestly, the first time I heard about home birth was from my boss at that time, which I'm so grateful. before even thinking about children, I'd never... That wasn't even in my...

I didn't know people did that. It's like, no, you find the fanciest hospital, that feels like a country club, and that's what you do, right? I had already probably planned that out. And two things he talked about that were like one was, she could eat whenever she wanted. You know, so if she was hungry, she ate and, um, you didn't have a hospital trying to protect, like get you ready for a possible C-section and withhold

Pain, transformation, and birth choices 25:40

food and water. Um, and that you controlled the lighting, two such primal things, the thought of being under bright lights or, you know, they were so simple, but, and I didn't realize till later, I'm like, maybe I more of a control freak than I thought it was too, because like those are both control, right? Like those. Or just basic needs. I know. But being in control of my basic. Needs became very important. That makes sense. Right. Yes. And couple that with out of the fact that I had been doing growth work and, Created a yeah, I guess what I would call now.

My mother code statement was very heavily encoded with Being present and conscious in my life in general, you know what what? atmosphere is going to create the most potential presence that I can be and then give that you Know to these beings that are coming in so that was really a than the bigger catalyst, I would say. The higher level catalyst I guess, right? Like... Yeah. I'm amazed that you knew that before you had babies. About your presence. It wasn't too much later. I'm like, how did I know all this?

Like, cause my mom was like this wasn' an atmosphere I grew up in. This has to be from past lives. You know? I feel like there is a wisdom that is coming through that wasn from anything around me. And I think those are those sparks and we have them in us. That wisdom is still encoded in and when we had those inklings or lean, you know, like Oh my God, am I just weird for thinking I wanna do that and dismiss it right away? Like, follow it, right? Because... I had a thought. Do you think that you and, you know, a lot of the mothers who are mothering now, is it that we like, because we're like one of first generation.

I know like in the 70s, lots of people were conscious birthing and conscious parenting and lots things like that. And not necessarily just that, like, you know, in drips and drabs, but I feel like this, people are having babies now. Is it that like we're somehow in a life where it's like safe enough to like listen to that inner voice, to listen that inherited knowledge of intuition or something like that? I wonder. I like the career because I think like Ben, we are looking at one of the positive aspects of social media even, you know, that I think women are seeing that, if they look, right?

Like it's so much more accessible to like, oh, I have this idea. Like, let's find out about it or having podcasts out here like this. And so I I that's true. I, think it safer than it ever has been. Mm-hmm. So it not dangerous in the way, like your life, gonna be burned at the stake for wanting, thinking some of these thoughts. But I think some that wiring still in us that has us still maybe where we're feel over cautious where don't need to be. And I do think it's also there's a big opening and I things are happening and want to have us all lean in and why I love your podcast and love anywhere and everywhere people are sharing these experiences.

so that we can normalize them as options, right? Because, I mean, my ultimate vision is Western medicine married to, say it's just in birth, whether it is Eastern or more natural processes of birth. that they could work really well together instead of feel like they have to compete or... We need that model. We just, we need each other. I mean, you know, like keep some of those things that are on hand for the emergencies when it's an emergency and not like standard procedure, right? And let a natural process, come forth.

And I think, that like seeing those things like in the study, because, you know, for a study you I had interview, I did both qualitative and quantitative analysis through it. So, just open ended question, tell me about mothering and then, questionnaire for lack of a better word, right? And then after, you know, after just 12 hours of diving into this topic and my sample wasn't really high. And I was told ahead of time, like, don't expect for you to see statistically significant results because you don' probably a big enough sample, but I did.

It still showed. The power in those results you had. But to see women talk about like before, how they held pain, or like motherhood, it's painful, It's hard to, oh my gosh, its this vehicle for transformation, like there's gonna be wisdom in my pain. And then to have, I mean, I didn't keep studying them. I kind of wish I did, but knowing some of the women and the choices they've made and them talking about reverting back to that workshop and like, you know, in their birth, like there is, there's wisdom in this pain or just mantras that came through for them because of it really showed one, that I think there was a desire, women want this, you know, despite everything that we have to surmount to have this level of our intuition available to us.

That just with a simple 12-hour seminar, we can start expanding our thinking and our way of being. So that's kind of like, it's not hard, living it, digging in, that work you need to kind to decide to do to make it a part of your life or part continued part the experience, because I think, you know, like in your work where if we're talking about co-regulating or, giving your baby what you didn't have, that's going to stir things up. I had to work on that. Like, I didn' have that, Like I, had coaches like help me and you know, even just talking to my baby and like, how do I interact?

Intuition, embodiment, and community 32:40

I had to work to bring that online because it wasn't what I experienced. I didn't interact a whole lot with, you now, other women with children. It just wasn' in the atmosphere a lot to feel comfortable. Yeah, I always say that to people too, right? If it's not, if you haven't had the models, then you need to them in. And so that can be other people you know who you think are mothers, doulas, all kinds of people can come and model some of that. Because it's social learning. A lot of the mothering is social learn.

I'm curious to know a little bit more about how we can mother ourselves. Tell us a little bit more about that. And then I also want everyone to also know that you have retreats that help people mother themselves and feel mothered. So tell us little more bit about this, because that's the most exciting ideas I've ever heard. Love it. Thank you. I really appreciate that, cause that has definitely been something that come forth as an offering that I feel like is really aligned just with me personally and following you know, my intuition and guidance like this is what I want to offer.

You know I've been a coach for a long time and I still like believe in ongoing work, right? And the work that we need to do. I think that's a huge part of self-mothering is, you now being willing to dive in deep with yourself, know yourself. So to me, self-actualization, Self-awareness is the deepest mothering, you know, we can do. Does it make you bad or wrong if you're like, oh, like that, I'm not gonna do that. What else can I do? Is being curious, maybe you are someone like right now going into that emotional realm just feels like Too hard there yet get yourself.

We all have our right time for when we can right now Yes, it's not always right. Now but if it is through the lens of you know books and studying and the research and academics around like you were talking about social learning or emotional, you know, there's, some, really good academic evidence-based, work out there that we can look at, that our emotions are a physiological part of us. It isn't, and, as a bridge, For all people and but I think particularly women have access to our emotions. We kind of lead the way the feminine does.

It's more of a feminine value that it's one of the ways we know ourselves is that connection with our emotions and our ability to express them. So that journey, just looking at like, what ones do I feel okay with? What was okay in our family? Just kind of being willing to put your curiosity or whatever learning cap you feel like you're most easily can get your toe in the water to start there. Yeah. I think you were also hinting at sometimes people feel like there's morality attached to them. Like I'm bad if I have these emotions or good if they have other emotions.

So that's an important one, but there is so much there to uncover for people. Right. Yes. And if, you know, wherever you're at, religiously or spiritually, like, there so support and so connection we can give ourselves in that realm. You know? discovering what that is for you or how that can be something that you give yourself or are in relationship with in some way those aspects. So having just named all those, you know, and then our, I think listening to our bodies, which gives like speak to us all the time.

And then, our intuitive sense that comes, often are an embodied experience, you know, those go together so well. Intuition really awakens in motherhood. Right, I know. People have it for a long time, but I mean, we all have, it's like, are we listening? Are we are listening, and is it okay? And are, how much has that voice been quieted? Because it is like oh, just I don't know why, this is the right decision. I need evidence. You know, women... I just looked this up recently. Um, you know... Women need...

Men... It's still... it's okay for men to say they have a gut feeling about something, but women still have to show evidence for their intuitive gut feelings. So we're working on it, right? Like, it' okay. There's plenty of evidence out there. I'm not worried about it. Uh, so that's what I really... aim to bring into the retreats that I hold. So at this point, I hope I whole these retreat, you know, to get us out of which is in itself like a big deal, because I have women in all phases of mothering come to them, from don't have kids, not going to have you know, children in their midst now to empty nest and, you, know all of it.

Eventually I'd like to like do them just for those different, but we'll get there. Okay. Um, cause there's a value in seeing the whole continuum and us all being together. And there is a of like all, being in what we're in together, yeah. But what the focus is to really tune in and give one, just saying yes to this is like the first big win because you. I particularly made it not a retreat that had a business focus because that's oftentimes the only way women will say yes to it is like, it'll help my business.

Right. Or, or, you know, for someone else, but this is just you. And the first agreement I have women make on these is you don't get to help. Like you don't, unless I mean, I might ask for a little something here or there, but you get to just be given to. To be received, right? To receive. I don' know how to receive so many of us. So immediately you're asked to kind of practice receiving and those are beautiful.

Retreats, coaching, and where to find Dr. Lyons 39:20

But then I have us do everything from, you know, what is just around us that we can tune into? What are questions on our heart? what Is it that were seeking guidance for and what are all the different ways that we can get that help, ask for it, you know, when we tune into ourselves. It might be, through nature, and we'll look at the four elements, earth, air, fire, water, right? I do breath work, I'm trained in all levels of breathwork, dynamic breathworks, so we use breath a lot to help bring up, locked in, whether it's emotions or memories and stuff.

I do it both on land and in the water. A lot of the women talk about the Water aspect being really powerful, really, powerful for them. And, you know, when we're in Mexico, we use, what's available to us in those spaces. we will sometimes do a tamaskal which is like a sweat lodge which was the original womb. I mean those came about for birthing for to like go into the womb of the mother. So you know we're trying to awaken some ancient wisdom that is still being practiced that we can tune into and realize like oh everything we have is inside of us.

And, but then the community of it. So when we're all together, this is just something I'm really starting to realize even more powerfully is once we do that and once were tuning in with ourselves, then it's like the collective helps like fan the flame. You know, it almost feels counterintuitive that self-mothering happens in community, right? Cause it it about you, It's with each other and us and reconnecting this, bringing back this connection that really gives it the power. I think. I love that it just creates space and time for mothers to connect with what's inside, because that's so much of what Elvis is, right?

Is really just making that space, and guiding people to listen to what is happening inside of them, their thoughts and feelings. Incredible. Well, I would love to come on one of these. That would be... Just such a beautiful gift. Yeah. And that's what I find. Like the women who come, the right group of women comes together for each one. Every time I'm always like, oh my God, that was like the best group. Can it happen again? And it seems to be, you know, I don't worry about it quite so much anymore.

I trust. Incredible, incredible. In Ireland, so Mexico and Ireland. But then I also do immersive experiences like one-on-one with someone where You know, right now the group doesn't, that doesn' feel safe or like their jam yet. Um, so I can do these same things with women, um, for a half day or a full day. Beautiful. And coaching, you know the ongoing work of coaching to like get at some of this stuff and bring it to the surface. Uh, those are. Those are my things. Amazing. Well, thank you so much for doing this incredible first research and your book and on the work you do with women and mothers.

It's so needed. And I just, it's probably what I'm attracted to. But I am also just seeing so many beautiful work like this happening. I feel like there's a real change coming for, or happening for us. Yeah, do you feel that? I think it's, I do, and I get scared at times like, oh my gosh, but then talking to you and then when I'm with women who are aligning in that way, Oh yeah, like this is, you know, hate to make this sound like a meme, But like love does conquer, that's one of the cosmic codes.

Like when we reconnect with love and ourselves as these vehicles, we are love, love is around us. Nothing can destroy that. Oh, yeah. It just feels like real healing to me. Like, it's like we've kind of been wounded as women and mothers, and we're sort of just stripping off some of the... the harmful thoughts and ideas and phrases and, um, giving ourselves, re-equipping ourselves with these, like, incredible superpowers that we have. Um, and just, it feels just like exactly what we need. To me. Yeah, that tells me too.

Amazing. Well, thank you so, so much. Can we let everybody know where they can find you? Of course, of course. So, my website can take you all the places. It also has my TEDx talk on it, which I did this year. There's a whole other story about that. But anyway, it was a bit censored by TEDX. So yeah, more to come on that, I'm just starting to talk about it. Because that's what I was going to say, like these like us, you know, reclaiming our power and uniting like this is threatening. And, so I think some of what we're seeing with like a Oh my gosh, like, it looks like we're trying, the powers that be are trying to clamp it back down.

Well, yeah, because it's so powerful. But the good news is, It's coming out and that's why there's a threat. So that being said, my website, which is Dr. Gertrude Lyons, And that's where you can find me anywhere. Rewrite the Mother Code or Dr. Gertrude Lyons, both. I'm on Instagram mostly, you know, right now. And then my website can share about the things that we talked about on here and my book. So I have a new book out this year. Re-Write The Mother code. From Sacrifice to Stardust, A Cosmic Approach to Motherhood that came out in May.

had the honor of having you a guest on. But all of it searching, Rewrite the Mother Code, Dr. Gertrude Lyons, and it's L-Y-O-N-S, Lyon's. You can find me. We'll put it all in our notes as well. Thank you. Well, thank you so much. Talk to you soon.