Full Transcript Podcast Introduction and Disclaimers 0:01 Hey there, welcome to the Recharged Biomedical Podcast. 0:04 I'm Dr. 0:04 Edward Park, and if you're curious about regenerative medicine, you've come to Hi everybody, this is Dr. 0:20 Ed Park from Recharged Biomedical. 0:22 Today we're going to be talking about stem cells versus exosomes. 0:26 And I've repurposed this diagram, the Pac-Man, and I think in this field there's really very little that we know, even the experts, 0:34 if they're honest, don't really know a lot. 0:36 And there are some things that they know they don't know, but what they do not even know is the majority of what we are going to be alluding to. 0:43 As a disclaimer, the use of exosomes or stem cells has not been FDA approved. 0:48 There are many trials in the case of stem cell but they have not approved for the treatment or prevention of any disease. 0:56 This video is for educational purposes only. 0:59 It is not an advertisement for exosomes nor stem cell therapies. 1:03 Anecdotes, if they are alluded to, are not to be construed as rigorous scientific proof, although they're evidence. 1:08 And all patients of mine were treated within the context of a patient position relationship. 1:14 The goals of the talk will be to discuss what is a stem-cell versus an exostome? 1:18 A lot of people are a little fuzzy on that. 1:22 We talk about how they're stored, how their thawed. 1:25 We'll touch upon immune compatibility and incompatibility, and we'll talk safety considerations vis-a-vis infection and also the media in which they are transported. 1:34 And we will talk old stem cells and kind of speculate about the ecology of stem cell. 1:39 Then we go into the cost, the efficacy and the value of the different treatments. 1:43 Finally, we speculate the future when combined approaches will be used. 1:48 When we talk exosomes, they aren't stem-cells. 1:52 They are not even on the same scale as cells. 1:55 In other words, these are the little 1,300th of diameter messages that are sent out to communicate like you and I would send a letter or FedEx box or package. 2:05 The cells are much, much bigger and they have machinery to copy DNA to make proteins, to package stuff, and to unpackage stuff.
Stem Cells vs Exosomes Overview 2:12 So for that reason, they're one size fits all. 2:14 On the surface they have certain antigens. 2:17 In the case of mesenchymal stem cell exosomes, we have these CD9, 63, and 81. But there are different stem cells you can learn about in the scientific 2:26 lecture I did a few back. 2:28 They're 100 nanometers, which is very small, same size as the coronavirus. 2:32 And that's because they use the same machinery to be packaged. 2:35 Again, they're not cells. 2:36 They don't have self antigens and they can't be reacted to in the way. 2:40 So your body doesn't know to destroy them unlike with cells, so I like the exosomes to the songs or the music or tracks or CD, 2:49 cassette, whatever. 2:50 That's the songs that the Rolling Stones made. 2:53 The cells themselves are the musicians. 2:56 Musicians can play many different songs according to what the requests are in the environment and the audience. 3:03 So that's a very important distinction. 3:05 Of course, when we talk about handling stem cells, there are many protocols. 3:09 You can look them up. 3:10 Basically, a common way to do it is to store them in liquid nitrogen, which is like, I think it's 80 minus Fahrenheit. 3:19 Anyway, the purpose of this is you can't just keep the cells alive forever. 3:22 They get contaminated, they get old from repeated copying. 3:26 Ooh, I put contamination there twice. 3:29 And they got membrane damage as well. 3:32 As you freeze them they can create ice crystals, osmotic damage, and that's a problem of course. 3:37 when you cryopreserve a human like Walt Disney or Ted Williams, it's a bigger problem because you magnify it and you multiply it. 3:44 But they've gotten pretty good at freezing these suckers down. 3:48 They use phenobarbine serum, 90% DMSO, 10% to stabilize them. 3:53 they cool them very slowly. 3:54 In contrast, they thaw them rather rapidly. 3:58 And I made a mistake on the earlier lecture in the foundational series. 4:01 I had read that The viability was very low after thawing. 4:04 Apparently a lot of these authors and these commercial companies claim upwards of 75% viabilty once they thaws them. 4:11 So that's really good news. 4:13 And then finally, how do you know you're dealing with a mesenchymal stem cell? 4:17 Well, there are out of the box kits like for testing CD or cellular differentiation marker. 4:23 It's a surface protein 73, 90, and 105. Those are positive. 4:27 That's suggestive of MSC. 4:30 And what should be negative is CD45, 34, 14 and HLA-DR. 4:35 They also can do a provocative challenge where they give certain reagents and they can make the mesenchymal stem cells play certain songs. 4:43 In other words, they become osteoblasts, adipocytes and chondroblasts. 4:48 This is a very trivial but magical thing that stem cell scientists love to do. 4:52 And it proves that we have this at least multipotent meséchymals stemcells when we saw them. 4:58 So, of course, the elephant in the room is immune incompatibility. 5:00 It's something that the people offering stem cell treatment, allogeneic at least, don't even talk about. 5:06 But it's a big deal and it is commonly held and is true to an extent that stem-cell transplants or transfers or infusions, 5:15 they're relatively non-immunogenic. 5:17 You know, it very rare to have side effects reactions. 5:20 That's because the MSCs have a low level of class one self antigens. 5:25 That means all nucleate cells have this self signature. 5:28 It's the personal fingerprint of all the cells and they don't have class two, which is a specialized type of histocompatibility used by immune antigen
Stem Cell Storage, Thawing, and Identification 5:38 presenting cells. 5:38 Furthermore, MSC's are notorious or famous or specialized in shutting down the immune system. 5:44 And so they get you out of that inflammation and into regeneration. 5:48 They do this by activating the Treg cells, TH17, and they shift the phenotype from T1 to T2. 5:55 Again, a regenerative, not inflammatory thing. 5:59 Now that said, when you look at the literature that's out there where people have addressed this question, what we have are undeniable proof that these 6:09 cells don't last. 6:09 In one of these studies, I don´t know if it was one or these two that are cited, but they found that if you take your own stem cells, 6:15 freeze them, thaw them or you took your stem cell and infuse them then at 200 days, 80% of them are still somewhere around there. 6:22 And they know this because they give them a special gene that causes them to light up, luciferase and glows. 6:29 You can see it. 6:31 Whereas when you take someone else's cells, they are easily chewed up within days by your immune system. 6:36 And that's what the immune is for. 6:38 So furthermore, one of these studies sites that there is a B cell T cell response, meaning, I mean, you wouldn't really get somebody's stem cells or you 6:47 might if you go to the same company. 6:48 so the next time you get them. 6:50 You have an anamnestic response, in other words, not forgetting for Greek. 6:54 So you even destroy them faster. 6:56 The question is, off the shelf, allogeneic stem cells, yeah, they don't do a lot in terms of harming you, but your body clears them very quickly. 7:04 How effective can they really be? 7:09 Now, basic stem cell biology, what is a stem-cell? 7:12 A stem cells is cell that is asymmetrically dividing. 7:16 That means she makes a perfect copy of herself, the mom, model, and then a daughter, specialized daughter. 7:22 So when she divides into, she make herself the stemcell and the daughter that's more specialized. 7:28 As a general principle, it's an abstract concept. 7:31 Secondly, She has telomerase or she has mechanisms to lengthen her telomeres so that she can copy indefinitely and she is immortal. 7:39 Now, we talk about the distinction between embryonic versus adult. 7:42 Now embryon means truly when you're an embryo, even before fetal, and that means that you have a lot of more potency. 7:50 So obviously, you come from one cell, from the sperm and egg, that's totipotent or tutipoten. 7:55 It becomes all your cells. 7:56 As we become more aged, certain switches are switched off in the gene expression through the epigenetics, probably, and the cells lose their potency. 8:05 Now, the reason we don't use embryonic stem cells other than ethical considerations is because they retain too much potence. 8:12 In other words, that the cartoon in The Middle shows what happens when you use Embryonic Stem Cells. 8:18 They become teratomas. 8:19 Teratoma are multilayered, they express multiple germ lines. 8:23 Without getting too technical, weird things because they have too much potency. 8:28 So you can get like an adult woman or even a man, you even get teeth in your ovary. 8:33 It's because these cells have to much potent. 8:35 They know how to do too many things they haven't specialized. 8:38 If you put them in a dish, they become embryoid bodies. 8:40 Same thing. 8:41 The problem is too potent, too may options. 8:45 Part of cell ecology and development is that they lose their options to become more specialized, but they still retain stemness. 8:52 To be truthful, Again, above me is the pack. 8:55 I'm reminding us, nobody really knows how many stem cells are there, how are they controlled? 8:58 Do they become stem-like? 9:01 Or do they de-differentiate? 9:02 How many is too much? 9:04 Nobody really understands any of this, to be honest. 9:07 Of course, when we look at different types of stem cells, you can fly to Germany or Switzerland and get some black sheep stem cell. 9:14 To me, this is not logical because if you think about immune rejection of another human, rejection another species is even more Christian. 9:23 So these really don't. 9:24 They shouldn't work at all. 9:25 Of course, an allogeneic or somebody else's is going to get rejected because of major histocompatibility mismatch. 9:32 So you'll clear those as we talked about. 9:34 The best is autologous. 9:35 Now we talk about autologist, it's from you. 9:37 There's no rejecting your own cells in general unless you developed autoimmunity.
Immune Compatibility and Stem Cell Biology 9:42 We look at the Rolling Stones when they're young and the rolling stones when their old. 9:46 Probably the ability to play songs is better in the younger ones. 9:51 So we probably, if we're going to freeze them and catalog them, it's probably better to do it when we are 21, as opposed to when were 61. Finally, 9:59 the two methods that are readily available for extraction of your own stem cells, presumably for storage and later use, are liposuction in abdomen or buttocks 10:09 and bone marrow aspiration, which is a local anesthetic over the hip bone. 10:13 It's not that painful. 10:15 Arguably preferred. 10:17 And we see that life and aging and disease is just a depletion and a deterioration of the quality of stem cells. 10:23 So those young rolling stones become old rolling stone, they become damaged and they are less able to perform. 10:32 Finally, the sort of genealogy chart above me shows what we've been talking about. 10:36 Stem cells, okay, They can be embryonic. 10:39 They could be adult. 10:40 Or they can be fetal. 10:42 Basically, as you go to the right, you get more differentiation, less ability to become anything. 10:47 And of course the field of stem cells has been transformed by the, I always get it wrong, Yamagata or Yamanaka factors. 10:55 They found that if you just introduce three or four genes, even three of four proteins, You can coax the old stem cell to be induced pluripotent or a young 11:06 almost embryonic stem. 11:06 So that's a very exciting thing and that kind of. 11:10 points to how complicated and fluid our understanding is. 11:15 So let's talk about safety considerations. 11:18 There was a movie or something called Bad Bats. 11:20 The field is very cognizant of this problem. 11:23 In 2018, the major player in the field of alginic stem cells was Livion slash Genetech, not to be confused with Genentech. 11:31 And their product Regen was sent out and it was a quote, bad batch. 11:35 Now those people got chills and discomfort, probably just a simple endotoxin contamination. 11:41 Bacteria produce this lipopolysaccharide thing in their cell wall. 11:46 And this is everywhere, it's ubiquitous. 11:47 This is why people pasteurize milk. 11:49 It's why canned food is heat sterilized. 11:52 There's bacteria everywhere. 11:54 A low level is tolerable. 11:56 But if they reproduce in the storage media and you ship it and inject it, the endotoxin will cause a reaction. 12:02 And so that's a nightmare, of course. 12:03 The chances of viral infection are arguably very low because they screen them, both the donors and they scream the samples for all these common viral illnesses. 12:12 But every time you handle a substance, you introduce bacteria. 12:15 That's why you tell the kids don't drink out of the milk carton because it's bacteria being introduced. 12:21 Of course, most of these places claim to have good manufacturing practices and their FDA monitored, which I don't know what that means. 12:27 That's a good, good thing, but it's no guarantee. 12:30 Every time you touch and open anything, there's chance of contamination. 12:34 And that's why when I was doing Botox, you know, You really had to use the Botoc standing there. 12:39 You could kind of game the system by putting bacteriostatic saline in there, But everything there is a give and take, what you gain on the swing, 12:46 and you lose on a roundabout as the British say. 12:49 Anyway. 12:50 The cold chain is crucial so you don't reuse them after opening. 12:53 Exosomes are frozen and shipped on dry ice, minus 109. Cells are shipped in refrigerated packs and so they have to be used within three days of thawing. 13:03 I'm not thowing, of shipping. 13:05 Finally, quality control sheet from at least stem cells should include the viability, the percent of viabilty, and the bacterial anaerobic and aerobic counts, 13:13 whether there was mycoplasma and whether was endotoxin and at what level. 13:17 A little bit is okay, a lot is not good. 13:21 Another thing that people want to talk about is fetal bovine serum or fetus calf serum. 13:25 They basically take, you know, the blood from baby cows and they get the cells out and that serum is what they're using. 13:33 Now think about this for a second. 13:34 It's cheap, it's effective, its standard, but you're expressing all the exosomes in the serum, so you are becoming a fetal calf in a way, 13:44 but this is how the cell husbandry has been done. 13:47 It's less ideal. 13:48 Now everyone's trending towards serum-free and chemically defined kind of interchangeable terms. 13:54 Basically, we don't want feto-calf serum, fetorexosomes. 13:57 We want something that is just chemally defined, perfect like Star Trek food for the cells. 14:02 And indeed it makes sense that if you're expressing calf or cow antigens, you could be getting reactions. 14:12 Some of the vaccine reactions might be because of previous sensitization to cells that were cultured in fetal bovine serum. 14:19 So why introduce more complications if you don't need to? 14:23 Of course the movie above is cocoon and they get these old folks and then they bathe in the water and get young. 14:29 You know, it's fiction but it speaks to an important point which is that your old Mick Jagger and indeed, unfortunately, 14:36 Charlie Watts the drummer just passed about six weeks ago. 14:39 Cells get depleted in number and depleting in quality by two mechanisms. 14:44 One is over-copying and replicative senescence. 14:47 And I described this in my two books, The Telomere Miracle and Telomer Time Bombs. 14:51 As you get the telomeres too short, the chromosomes mutate like chopped scallions, and that's bad. 14:56 But there's also epigenetic silencing. 14:59 Not easy for me to say. 15:00 And that means methylation. 15:02 I believe that methylation is a gainy process. 15:04 In other words, it's over 100% efficient. 15:06 So a lot of the genes are shut down in these cells. 15:09 They not only depleted in number and they get genetic errors, but also their software functions less efficiently. 15:16 Yet, even old cells can respond when they're in the mood. 15:19 That's the premise of what we're doing with the exosomes. 15:22 We're playing that old Glenn Miller song, In the Mood. 15:24 It's all very sub rosa back then. 15:27 But you get them in the mood and they can act young and act to regenerate.
Safety, Contamination, and Culture Media 15:31 And most of the problems that we have throughout the body are depletion of our stem cells and A, they've just phoned it in. 15:37 They're no longer copying. 15:38 So we get tendinosis because the existing stem cell in tendons or in bones are there, but they have over copied. 15:46 Then they're not able to do their job. 15:48 For a little while, you play the... 15:50 And they get in a mood, and then they start acting young again, like the swimmers in cocoon. 15:57 So as we near the end, let's talk about value. 16:00 So value is kind of this amorphous thing and it's value for you may be different for me and maybe different in retrospect. 16:06 But as a general concept, you know, the more efficacious divided by the cost is a way to express value, but also you have to multiply it by a variable safety. 16:18 Like is it safe? 16:19 Like, are we talking about a one in a thousand reaction of endotoxin shock or whatever? 16:24 Probably not even that, but what are the risks of bacterial contamination? 16:28 What are they risks other procedures? 16:30 And what the risk of generating an immune response? 16:33 These are all considerations. 16:34 To speak to the efficacy of exosomes, you can go to webinar25 at tinyurl.com slash exoweb25. 16:41 I talk about repeat injections and 26. best cases and perhaps one of my best videos was 27 unhappy patients. 16:49 So we talk about why people are unhappy and it's not just that it didn't work or only lasted a short amount of time, but we talked about the overall challenge 16:58 of taking a very broken system and remediate someone, how people react to that. 17:02 So what is the efficacy of stem cells? 17:04 You know, this is a very anecdotal about three, four years ago. 17:07 I want to get into stem. 17:08 So I tried the infusion myself, I trained in different techniques. 17:12 And to me, it didn't do anything, which is just an N of one, as we say, but I'm pretty sensitive to these things. 17:20 push this or sell this, or offer this if I didn't do anything. 17:23 I talked to a lot of patients who've been in and out of these stem cell clinics and you know, the reports are about 50-50. 17:29 50% say they seem to do better for a time. 17:32 It's not always long lasting. 17:34 So that's good. 17:34 And I think that the safety really favors the exosomes because it is sort of mass produced, but in a very sort bespoke and controlled way. 17:43 So every month they take a new batch of master cell stem cells from the same donor, so there's no risk of infection. 17:50 And then they get fresh, fresh exosomes. 17:53 They isolate only the exostomes, there is no calf serum or anything like that. 17:58 Then they resuspend them in normal saline. 18:00 We're talking about, and then the freeze them and ship them. 18:03 The ability for human error, bacteriological contamination, even medium contamination is very slight. 18:10 Of course, autologous stem cells are much safer than getting it from a donor because you don't have an immune reaction as much. 18:15 You can have some immune reactions for unknown reasons, but autologist stem-cells are more safer, I would say, and longer lasting. 18:24 The cost of exosomes right now on the street value is about $500 per billion, although that can vary quite a bit. 18:30 Whereas the cost autologists or allogeneic, strangely, it starts around $5,000 and can go up from there. 18:37 So of course, if you're talking about somebody who needs to harvest your bone marrow and or your lipo suction, their procedure fees associated with that, 18:45 you know, anesthesia fees, et cetera, but it's not cheap. 18:49 And so I think that the risks involved with exosomes tend to be very small. 18:54 Approaching over 800 injection sites, 170 patients now haven't really or haven' seen any shock-like reactions, immediate reactions immune reactions and 19:06 toward things. 19:07 So I think they're pretty safe across a wide range of dosing. 19:11 Finally, the cost of autologous storage. 19:13 If you want to do this, I mean, if money is not an issue, gifting your 21-year-old's stem cell storage. 19:20 They can store it indefinitely for $250 a year. 19:22 The initial initiation cost is $3,000 from Bone Marrow. 19:27 So for 3, 000 and then $2.50 a- year, we're not talking about baby placenta bank, but we don't want cells that early. 19:33 We want adult cells when they're 21. And the person would just go in for a local extraction and then store them for the rest of their life. 19:41 And when they're 31, 41, 51, 101, they can always get copies of themselves as the young Rolling Stones, as The Young Van, 19:49 very healthy, you know, jumping from 10-foot walls and staying up all night. 19:54 These are the kind of cells that we want to be able to freeze and reintroduce to ourselves. 19:58 That's going to a huge biohack in the future. 20:02 And speaking of the future, I love these pictures of people looking in the mirror and you see what they imagine themselves to be and what there were as young, 20:11 younger people. 20:12 So we look at this guy, maybe he was a stem cell scientist, if he'd only had the means and there was company that could save his stem cells when he were 20:20 a young researcher, he might have been able to hack his own aging. 20:25 And so ideally in the future, instead of all these other government programs, everybody would be entitled to bank their stem cells at the age of 21. Again, 20:34 I mentioned that when you take stem from yourself, they're 80% viable at 200 days as radio labeled by Luciferase or whatever. 20:43 They're still there. 20:44 So they are alive. 20:45 Your body is not killing them. 20:46 Now, exocetals, because they lack any histocompatibility issue, we all react to them in a similar fashion. 20:52 They come from a newborn baby's placenta, and yes, they're still adults. 20:56 So there is no risk of teratoma formation that we've seen. 20:59 It can be mass produced and again, it's one size fits all.
Cell Aging, Value, and Clinical Efficacy 21:02 I think in the future, what we're really talking about, if we step back and think about what we're up against. 21:09 We have aging in all these different niches in our brain and our heart and thymus, very important, as John alluded to. 21:16 And so everything is aging by telomere attrition, by epigenetic aging or gene silencing. 21:21 So, you know, we may be able to freeze mesenchymal stem cells, okay, easy, but maybe in the future we'll freeze slightly differentiated cells, 21:31 maybe will freeze neural stem cells or kidney cells are liver cells. 21:34 Maybe not from direct extraction, but from purposeful manipulation of those extracted cells? 21:40 I don't know. 21:41 So maybe in the future, we'll have a whole library of spare hearts that we can go back to in decades later. 21:47 And that would be great because that's really where medicine should be heading, a logical, not fringe, scientifically-based biological method of reconstructing 21:58 what nature does to keep us younger and healthier. 22:00 And of course, if we have specific exosomes from those cells or that act efficiently in those use cases, then that will be even more synergistic. 22:09 So if have kidney failure, we could have renal-derived exostomes and we can have And then everything would just be a simple matter of refurbishing our 22:20 old car with our own parts. 22:23 So just think of aging and disease as stem cell niches throughout the body that are depleted and defective. 22:29 And so in the future, we're going to have a combination of stem cells with exosomes to stimulate them. 22:35 The musicians and the music to get them to play. 22:38 That'll be like a time release phenomenon and that'll the best of all worlds. 22:42 As we talk about the fact that excess homes are not FDA approved, we need to talk to the FDA as a business entity, intellectual property entity. 22:50 And we see from this meme that I've redacted that Scott Gottlieb is the former FDA commissioner. 22:55 Now he's on the board of Pfizer. 22:57 This other fellow, Stephen Hahn, it was FDA director under Trump and now he is Moderna board director. 23:04 The guy Smith James is a CEO of Reuters and he was on board at Pfizer, so Operation Warp Speed, Record Time, Approval of mRNA, 23:11 Fermentation to Induce Immune Reaction. 23:14 These companies made a lot of money and they had a very easy go of it. 23:17 In fact, arguably people are judging it, prejudging it as effective and safe out of their fear. 23:25 The days when bespoke personalized medicine are going to be approved by the FDA are probably approaching infinite. 23:32 Whereas things that people have a clear profit motive get approved very quickly. 23:37 Allogeneic stem cells probably are immunogenic. 23:39 As I alluded to, you can do a literature search. 23:42 It's very clear. 23:43 If they do work at all, it's because they're around for a few days and they are pumping out these exosomes. 23:47 So why not just take the exostomes and forget about the whole problem of strangers moving in and having to kill them. 23:53 Thankfully, they don't engraft. 23:54 I never asked Duncan Ross, but I think the name of his company Chimera with a K is an allusion to the fact that every time you take someone's stem cells, 24:02 you hope that they work by staying around. 24:06 But then again, do you really want to be a chimera or a mixture of different animals? 24:10 Do you want it to, be you know, patient X,patient Y? 24:13 living in your body, I don't think so that causes mosaicism genetically. 24:17 And a chimera is like a Griffin part, you know, yes, lion and horse or eagle. 24:22 Sphinx is a lion, and an eagle and a man. 24:25 I think you really want to mix species. 24:28 Things are complicated enough as they are. 24:31 Anyway, in the future, I think the premise of what we're doing is not crazy. 24:34 It's not fringe. 24:35 it's just biologically based and it seems to be substantiated by clinical anecdotes. 24:41 So what really doing it is reducing inflammation, which is universally bad. 24:45 And then we are regenerating and proliferating cells in their local niches. 24:50 I think the quality assurance and safety advantages from standardized purified exosomes is, is manifest. 24:57 I mean, it's very clear the extraction is just getting the pure exostomes and then suspending them in normal saline. 25:03 There's a very few moving parts. 25:05 We don't need media for nutrition. 25:08 So we don' even have the serum free or. 25:12 chemically defined media, these things don't require media. 25:14 So again, infectious-wise, media- wise, immunogenic, I guess, genicity is less. 25:21 I think the exosomes come out on top. 25:23 Of course I'm very biased, but I feel like the margin of safety, therapeutic index is very wide. 25:28 In other words, the ability to give a lot and not hurt people is wide, and so I it's a good way to go. 25:36 If money's not an issue and you have someone in your life that's still in their twenties, probably banking of stem cells is not a bad idea. 25:44 So those are just my two cents. 25:46 I'm going to open it up to people. 25:48 And I'd love to hear experiences. 25:49 If you know someone that has done stem cell, again, I am not expert in this. 25:54 Just present what I can figure out. 25:56 and so I don't think anyone's a true expert at any of this because nobody really knows what it feels like to be a cell and do what they do.
Future of Banking and Combined Therapies 26:05 I'm going to go ahead and go off presentation and take questions. 26:08 You can raise your hand, ask to be muted or type them into the chat as you like. 26:13 Does anybody want to ask a question? 26:15 You're going raise a questions from Adam. 26:18 I will unmute you now. 26:20 Yes, Adam? 26:21 Yeah. 26:21 Hi, thanks for the presentation. 26:23 Um, I got, uh, you from Christine Peterson, who's a friend. 26:28 And I wanted to, to two questions, So I was looking into exosomes as a potential intervention for my mom who hurt her ankle, 26:39 a heavy weight fell upon it and she's been suffering some continuing inflammation, even though the doctors can't see any damage to the bone. 26:48 And what I'm wondering is, first of all, could in your experience an exasome injection at the site be helpful in having anti-inflammatory and or regenerative properties. 27:01 And secondly, once such an injection is carried out, how long does it take and what is the process by which the exosome load is then dissipated and I guess 27:12 in general handled by the body. 27:14 Um, and maybe a third note on this is she, she's currently outside the country and if you are outside of the. 27:21 How would you get even get access to, to this treatment? 27:25 That's, that's basically the question. 27:27 Okay. 27:28 So in reverse order, yeah, I had met with Duncan Ross and they're trying to open up European offices. 27:36 And so that's coming maybe a year from now and the EU is one zone, minus UK. 27:42 I'm not sure where she is, but the short answer is no, you can't really transport them effectively internationally unless you're willing to risk up, 27:51 seizure or some other legal problems. 27:53 So even that, it even applies to Canada. 27:56 As far as the dissipation of them, you know, They dissipate very efficiently through just diffusion, lymphatics, blood circulation, 28:05 binding to albumin and binding the albumins on cells. 28:08 So they're moving all around. 28:09 They're hitchhikers. 28:10 There are like little dandelion seeds or nerf balls. 28:13 they are going everywhere always in many ways. 28:16 so they get diffused out very efficient. 28:19 Indeed, that's a problem. 28:20 And that is why some people have advocated sort of other media, platelet rich plasma. 28:28 placental matrix, yada, I'm not a big fan of that. 28:31 I just believe in starting it where it's needed and letting it diffuse out to have a systemic effect. 28:37 With regard to your mom's injuries, she dropped the dumbbell on her ankle. 28:41 There's no x-ray damage. 28:42 So, you know, it is not bone. 28:44 It's probably partially torn ligaments. 28:46 And so, yeah, in the acute injury setting, the pain comes from the the attempt to repair and the inflammation is really five things. 28:55 It's rubor, redness, tumor, swelling, fontial loss, loss of function, heat, color, and dolor, which is pain or nerve irritation. 29:06 So there's a lot of extra blood flow in that area. 29:08 You gave it IV, it'd probably go to the ankle anyway in this setting, but probably better to start off in the angle, let it diffuse away. 29:15 It should help rather quickly to shut down inflammation. 29:18 I remember my first and only gout episodes, gouts supposed to last two or three weeks, I drove into the office, injected my big toe and within six hours 29:26 it was feeling pretty fine. 29:28 So it's very anti-inflammatory and it'll start the healing and much more efficient process as well. 29:35 You'd have to fly into LA and see me. 29:38 Okay. 29:39 Actually got it. 29:39 Yeah. 29:40 Thank you. 29:42 Okay, good question. 29:43 I'm going to go ahead and answer a typed question we have from Edmund Lou. 29:47 In your experience, are nasally inhaled exosomes helpful with dementia, tinnitus, eyesight, COVID, anosmia? 29:54 Conceptually, what problems respond better to PRP injections, exostome injection? 29:59 Okay. 29:59 Multiple questions there as well. 30:01 You know, I never got into PRPs. 30:05 trained because mainly I don't really want to centrifuge and do all that technical stuff. 30:11 It's doable. 30:11 But if you look back at foundational lecture number five, I think it's tinyurl.com. 30:20 understand my rationale. 30:21 PRP has always been somewhat in the prolotherapy inflammatory camp. 30:26 So you're going two steps back to go three steps forward and they tell you don't take aspirin, ibuprofen because we want inflammation.
Audience Q&A on Exosome Use Cases 30:33 I don t want anything that wants inflammation, I want exosomes which immediately shift as I said earlier from Inflammatory T1 to T2, 30:41 regenerative, and I want anti-inflammatory actions. 30:44 I don't have experience with nasal exosomes, I know that's the preferred technique. 30:49 In the case, of course, COVID anosmia would be the exception. 31:06 because COVID anosmia affects the receptors in the nasal area. 31:11 And so that would be quite good. 31:12 You can refrigerate them for 24 hours and inhale them. 31:16 My technique is probably the only one, I'm probably only doing it by injecting the submucosa above the nasoturbinates or the concha and pretty good results in. 31:27 Mentation, memory, word finding, other things I've talked about in terms of tinnitus. 31:32 In one case of brain trauma, it did help. 31:34 Double vision, It did helped. 31:36 I haven't really seen frank dementia corrected, but people kind of on the border, yes, quite a bit. 31:42 But conceptually go back to foundational lecture five. 31:45 Want to talk about why I don't ever touch. 31:48 Prolotherapy or PRP and I'm not even a big fan of placental matrix though, because I don't want any kind of inflammation. 31:55 I want to complicate things, I wanna stick right to be good stuff. 31:58 Hope that answers your question. 31:59 All right, any other, you can raise your hand or you could type in a question? 32:06 Hey Larry, Sam, how are you doing? 32:07 JP? 32:08 Couple folks I'm not sure. 32:09 Hey Courtney, I think that's Courtney. 32:10 I know Courtney Alright, looks like I covered all of it. 32:13 Nobody has any questions. 32:14 Again, it's shocking to think about how little people know. 32:18 Even the people giving these. 32:20 Now I am not talking about just the techs or the scientists. 32:23 Everyone's kind of operating off the playbook. 32:25 Like if you really ask someone a bunch of, just a couple of and why questions, you'll realize that people's true profound understanding of stem cell ecology 32:35 and biology is quite shallow. 32:36 And I'm just the only one willing to admit it, but nobody really knows how these things work or communicate. 32:42 So, we're going to dump a punch of your stem cells in there and we are going Put some exosomes in there. 32:49 We're going to say our prayers and hope for the best. 32:52 And it's up for them, the cells and the exostomes to do what they know how to. 32:56 It's really way outside of our scope of understanding.
Closing Remarks and Course Promotion 33:01 it is probably too complicated to even understand, even with like AI modeling and all this. 33:08 Maybe a non-starter, but we're just biohacking in the same way that your body every day, all day tries to do. 33:14 It's replacing itself with its own stem cells and it's using exosome signaling to that. 33:21 So what we are doing is not one of the more fringe or radical ideas, it is just biomimically just copying what your bodies trying to. 33:35 All right. 33:35 Well, thanks everybody. 33:36 I have to go into the office and treat a patient. 33:38 Unless there's any other questions, I think we'll wrap. 33:41 Okay everybody, hey, Thanks a lot for coming. 33:42 Dr. 33:43 Ed Park finishing up a discussion on stem cells versus exosomes. 33:47 And I don't think it's one or the other. 33:49 Hopefully it is yes and, but I'm not a big fan of allogeneic off the shelf, non-immune matched stem cell that I will say. 33:57 okay. 33:58 Everybody. 33:59 Thanks. 33:59 A lot. 33:59 Take care. 34:02 Many clinicians are getting interested in exosome therapy and they hesitate for good reason. 34:07 Questions like, does this work? 34:09 What forms do I need? 34:11 How much should I charge? 34:12 how do i stay out of trouble? 34:14 All these questions are addressed in my online course. 34:17 That's why I created it to help you get started. 34:20 The online Course is your permanent turnkey resource to get start either treating yourself, friends and family or to expand your practice and help more 34:30 people as well as increase your revenue. 34:32 Thanks for tuning in to the Recharged Biomedical Podcast. 34:35 If today's episode got you thinking, you'll love my book, Exosomes, Songs of Healing. 34:40 It's packed with cool analogies, full color illustrations, and all the science you need to understand how exosome are changing the game in aging and regenerative medicine. 34:50 You can grab it in paperback, ebook, or audiobook, whatever works for you. 34:54 Now head over to www.rechargebiomechanical.com to check it out. 35:00 And don't forget to like and subscribe so you never miss another episode. 35:05 See you next time.
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