Stuck in Chronic Illness? How Trauma, Toxins & Infections Keep You Sick

Opening on Toxic Water and Chronic Illness 0:00

When you open a pipe up like this and it's completely corroded down to this little hole of crap that has filled it and half of that stuff is like radioactive elements 170 million americans are drinking radioactive water plus arsenic forever chemicals and medications are in there and that's across the entire united states that we see pipes like that people are never going to drink that water ever again from the top without cleaning it out because that is one of the big things that are bringing new toxins into our body creating this chronic illness Hi, and welcome to the Lime Bites podcast, where we shine a light on the misunderstood science of Lyme and other vector-borne diseases, as well as the truths that many still miss.

I'm Dr. Mariah Hinchy, naturopathic physician and fellow of the Medical Academy of Pediatric Special Needs. I specialize in treating chronic Lyme disease as well as other complex inflammatory conditions. In this podcast we break down what's working and what is not. We share the facts that most people miss, we challenge outdated thinking, and we give both patients and practitioners the tools to heal smarter.

Podcast Introduction and Guest Welcome 1:00

So let's get into it and change the way we heal Lyma. Welcome back to Lime Bites, rebuilding immunity, reversing inflammation, and redefining recovery. Today I'm joined by Dr. Jabin Moore, who helps clients around the world heal from chronic illness by identifying and addressing root causes such as Lyme, parasites, gut dysfunction, In this conversation, we'll explore how unresolved infections, environmental toxins, and microbiome disruption can keep the body stuck in chronic inflammation and what it takes to support true healing and recovery.

Welcome, Dr. Jaben. Thanks for joining me. Well, thanks for having me, I'm really excited to have this conversion with you. I know we met just a few months ago at a conference and I think we have a lot in common. I think we do too. And you want to know it's funny. It seems like it was just a few months ago, but it like well over a year ago. Life keeps flying by. Maybe that's part of what we'll talk about today is the speed of how everyone's living and how that affects your ability to actually get well.

Yeah, absolutely. So there's a huge conversation around chronic illness right now. What do you think most protocols are missing? A huge miss is the fact that they're just out there trying to wipe out and eradicate whatever the thing is. If it's Lyme disease or hammered antibiotics, if it is heavy metals like mercury, we are driving chelation. if its parasites, just take a ton of ivermectin and this is what everyone is doing. You can even go to the other side of it. Oh, just take a few more peptides.

And we're missing the fact that the body is an intricate and complex system that you have to regulate. Yes, the immune system. And you've got to make sure it's there and viable.

Why Chronic Illness Protocols Fail 3:00

To do that, your body has to feel safe. When it is not safe, when it worried from running from the tiger is what a lot of people say, right? If you're running away from something, whether that's the air in your home, the trauma in childhood, or the lack of nutrients that you are putting into your diet because maybe you too sick to eat enough. Or maybe your not eating a healthy diet. All of these are stressors that put your bodies into the state of feeling unsafe. So if we're not looking at the body and just asking that question from the perspective of all things that could potentially burden us, then I don't care how much of that eradicate or chelator you're taking.

How much detox you are doing, how many times you sitting in the sauna, many e-boos you doing. You're going to be able to overcome it for a lot of people and that's why you got these doctor hoppers that are going from one doc to the next to next. And honestly they come into my clinic and I'm like, what have you done? And they've done everything. I'm like, you've so many good things. There's been moments where I think to myself, like what am I going to do differently? Now that's before I usually get into the asking them a lot of questions and this is when I am reviewing their paperwork before an appointment.

And I just making sure that I have a good line of questioning to bring up to them because It's not a lack of information today that a person can get to, it's a lot of opportunity that many people have and, you know, I mean, yes, its expensive to get care. So some people there's lack opportunity, but even the people with unlimited opportunity. Those people still are struggling to well when there is no blockade for finances or travel because we aren't taking the body as a whole picture. And we're looking at people as if they have an unlimited resources within to do anything and everything we want them to.

Yeah, so what do you think is that stumbling block to healing? Like if you have patients, you know, who they've done all of the bells and whistles, they have done the detoxes, the gut healing protocols, their on binders, psychotherapy, physical therapy, all the right things, but yet they still haven't gotten any better or worse, continue to get sicker. What is the issue? What's really going on? Are you ready to revolutionize your approach to diagnosing and healing complex chronic inflammatory illnesses in both adults and children?

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This conference will arm you with the knowledge, clinical pearls, and practical solutions that you can implement immediately into your practice Monday morning that will literally change your patient's lives and get them on their path to true healing. So join us at Pompano Beach or virtually from anywhere. Register now at lymebites.com. That's L-Y-M-E-B- Y-T- E-S dot com. Well, let me take you down the journey of a client that came in. And for the sake of today, I'm going to call this client, Erin.

So Erin comes in and she is a person that's pretty educated as a clients, she's not a doctor. She had unlimited resources and had been to 20 doctors. This is really, really common for me. And as she came in, she had been dealing with fatigue and brain fog, and there had some mental health issues that had arose,

Erinu2019s Case: Energy Bankruptcy and Symptom Build-Up 7:00

like depression and anxiety. She didn't have them as a child. And she just was that kind of normal client that we see. There's a little bit of sensitivity to supplements, so there's some reactions there. When I started interviewing her, going through her paperwork, I was asking questions and I always go back into the, the childhood part. And there was some, a divorce in her childhood and a little bit of what she would consider trauma. It wasn't massively significant as far as, um, someone who says like, that was like the turning point in my life.

This is just something she didn't even mention until I got a bit into weeds with her. She mentioned being a, little more of the A type person, slightly perfectionistic, not OCD. So there's a personality type there that I look for that includes some of those types of personalities. She was fine through middle school, through her thirties and then, you know, 33, 34, things just didn't seem like they were working very well. And I asked her what had happened and she's like, well, it's usually like this for a lot of people.

I had a kid, I ended up getting divorced and. Then I moved into this new house and I just haven't felt the same since that time period. That is a story I'm sure you hear all the time, right? And then what we started to get into was, it wasn't one thing that led to her getting unwell. It was there was a little bit of trauma as a child that took some energy from her. So I think of the person a bit as bank account. If you can imagine with me, you got $100 to spend every single day on feeling good. And if you go beyond that, we're now in energy bankruptcy.

So if can imagine this with me and $50 goes to just living, but that's just eating and breathing and digesting and normal things. And that childhood trauma was another $10 or $60. She made it through her 20s and then in her 30s, she was working, and she got a job. That's another 20 bucks. Now we are at $80. Then she had a kid and we were at 85, $90. The divorce was a little bit rough. We're at a hundred dollars. Well, then we kept going and still got to work and got sick with a cold, just a normal cold because you got a kid, they bring stuff home, the little germ mongers bring it home to you.

It happens to me with my little guy. And all of this kept happening. What really starts happening is you start trying to take back control. And that control, because you feel out of control when your body is like this and you start getting a little more fatigued. So you get a lot more perfectionistic. Because you have to. And then you got sick. Now you're trying to avoid getting sick, so you are trying stay away from certain situations and trying get more sleep and changing your sleep pattern. You're improving your sleep habits.

You are improving you diet. Your restricting your diet because you're trying to eat less bad stuff. But that makes you feel a little bit bad about things because, you can't do what you want to be doing. So there's a bit more stress which creates anxiety. Now we don't feel safe in our environment. We don' feel in safe our bodies. And it can even be a subconscious level because You feel like you are doing the right things. What I'm getting to is all that starts burdening you and now that takes energy and we are at $110 a day.

What happens? Our hair starts falling out, our skin starts to look a little bit more aged, or hormones start becoming disruptive. Do you know the number of women that have come to my clinic that has perimenopause at 36, so they tell me? Or they're going into the change of life, they are 39, and I'm going, I am not a woman. But I'm 39. Yeah. And I feel great. I am still going to CrossFit and I still able to have a burger if I want to on an occasion and shoot, I not telling you to go do bad things but you should be able have glass of wine with the girls on the porch if you want too.

Now that doesn't mean I telling me to do that. It's not good for you but your body should have the adaptability to handle it. So as this energy bank account becomes tapped with all the stresses and burdens from your entire life that you haven't unloaded. You get unwell, and that takes me all the way back to what has happened to so many of my clients is they're stuck in this neurotoxic loop. And the neurotocic group is, they feel unsafe because of the stuff that's happened with them in their life.

Maybe they are living in mold, maybe they were living where a place where it's radioactive water, which by the 170 million Americans are drinking radioactive This is a topic that I'm trying to bring awareness to. And then you have your potential SIBO infections, H. pylori infections Lyme disease infections that you can start to accumulate. So. You have these things are the toxic part of the loop. The neuro part of the loop is the traumas and the stress and a loss of function that now is stressing you out.

And even if you've done this, you been to all the doctors, You've Done all The things you educated yourself. You taken antibiotics, the antiparasitics, and you're like, I've, done it all. I should be better. The problem is, is that toxic loop part you worked on, but did you ever work on the neuro-part that creates the same exact interleukins, they create the same inflammatory pathway triggers that the toxins did by the stress, the stressed and the trauma will. So then you killed everything, you didn't do the nervous system part.

The nervous part keeps you feeling sick, so you stop doing the killing and detoxing. And then while the immune system is still suppressed, well, toxins and infections start regrowing because you never kill them all. You never get all the toxins to go away. Right. Then you're like, You know what? I never did this. I'm going to go do a yoga retreat and I want to start working on limbics. So then you go to your nervous system stuff, but the toxin stuff you avoided because Annie Hopper told you that if you just do DNS,

The Neurotoxic Loop of Trauma and Toxins 13:00

DNRS, that you don't have to do that stuff anymore. So it's this loop of, are you doing both? That's the biggest mistake that people do. And that's what I see, I think I called her Erin. That is what Erin do all the time when she comes in my clinic, because order of operations and synergistic care from a doctor that pays full attention to all of the pieces, not just one of these pieces is a must. Yeah, 100%. It's so funny. I've had so many patients come in and I start talking about detox as part of an encompassing protocol.

We need to detox while we're addressing everything else. And they're like, oh no, I already detoxed. I'm like, what? Are you dead? As long as you are alive, you just from being a live body, are generating toxins consistently, not to mention the toxins that we are breathing and drinking and eating and toxins from the organisms that are inside of ourselves. It's such a good point. When I say this over and over again when I am lecturing, this isn't linear. We can't heal the gut and then go and detox and rebuild the mitochondria and deal with the infections.

Everything is driving upstream, downstream, sideways. It's like this giant ball of wax and we have to know all of the components and address them all and melt it simultaneously. Or they all just drive each other in this crazy spiral. Yeah. Let me be controversial for a moment because this thought just popped in my head about what you just said. The biggest mistake that medicine ever did that you believe right now is that specialist should have an opinion on your overall health. So if you go to a neurologist, cardiologist, endocrinologist, any of the ologists, and you let them have an opinion over your overall picture without having somebody driving the ship that has an ability to take all of their expertises, which is great and valuable, And then go, this is the actual whole person to give them an Opinion on the path forward.

You're probably making a mistake because if you don't do that, you're going to get stuck in the hamster wheel of, oh, that's not my job. Oh, That's Not For Me. I don't know anything about that. And then they just pass you on instead of somebody going, well, your mental health struggle, anxiety could potentially, yes, use a medication temporarily to stabilize you. That is a possibility. But the inflammation in your body that is triggering C-reactive protein might be coming from an infection. You went off to the infectious disease doctor who said that it had nothing to do with your But mental health person says you have mental issues.

And then the cardiologist says, well, you inflammation around your heart, but the infectious disease guy that didn't talk to him and says he have Lyme disease. So if you somebody in the center, I can take all of that data and go, oh, Lymes is probably causing Lyma endocrinitis that led to a neuroinflammatory response that lead to autoimmune encephalitis. Then if we can, instead of giving you an antidepressant, give you and antihistamine, maybe that will deal with the anxiety while helping to bring down some of the inflammation around your heart.

While we still can go to the infectious guy and we can talk about working on the Lyme disease, that would be a solution that could actually work. 100%. You're so right. But then that person driving the ship has to be someone that actually understands how the body works and how that body's interaction with Right. Actually matters. Right? And that we aren't all of these other systems in a box, including our head off somewhere else that, we just farm around to all these different specialists. A lot of times I feel like a general practitioner is literally sitting there like, okay, did you have your mammogram?

Did you have your colonoscopy? Did have this? Oh, you had this symptom? Go see that person." To your point with Lyme, it's like, okay, well, so they're off to the orthopedic because of their knee pain. They're after the GI because they have SIBO. There are off the cardiologist because there are pots. And then they are often psychiatrists because, they had anxiety and they can't sleep. Oh! And they offer a sleep study. And it's like, really, all you have to do is identify the underlying infections and focus on the whole person.

And lo and behold, one targeted treatment could help all of that instead of, what did I name, seven different doctors, probably seven to 14 different drugs and therapies, and still the person isn't any better. Are you suffering from Lyme disease or another complex chronic illness and aren't sure who to trust when it comes to herbal supplements? Hi. I'm Dr. Mariah Hinchey, founder of Lime Core Botanicals. As a naturopathic physician specializing in complex, chronic, infection-driven illnesses like Lyme disease, I needed herbal medicine I could truly trust.

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Specialists, Whole-Body Care, and the Need for a Care Coordinator 19:00

And then as a part of your situation in there, the person that is driving the ship has to realize that the body has a memory to it. This is where that neurotoxic loop is really important. I try to weave it in in so many places because I want people to understand that trauma can absolutely be caused by childhood something that happened, absolutely, or an adult situation. We have military men coming back that have been through really traumatic situations. However, I oftentimes tell people when they come in who have gone 90% of the way through my care plan early in my practice and they were like, Hey doc, I feel great.

I have an amazing wife. My kids are happy. And I'm still thinking of this guy that came into my clinic and he was the guy. That probably triggered me to realize. This is the path that I had to go down to get real results for people because he's like, my wife is amazing. My kids are awesome. I love my job. Don't have pain anymore. Have plenty of energy. Am not fatigued, but I'm still depressed. As you looked at him and I go, why? Like in my head, I didn't ask him the question. And I just stepped back on myself and just said, how?

Why? What is, what did we miss? And I realized that when you've been stuck in a certain state of health for long enough, this is not a real term that is out there anywhere besides maybe on something I've talked about, but it's almost a autoimmune PTSD situation. His body had been triggered to be overactive for so long from the Lyme and the mold and parasites we were dealing with, that the immune system itself Had broken out of I'm responding for a reason and into a perpetuated state that was self driven to continue to have this inflammatory cycle going.

And we had to break that cycle. That was leading to his mental health challenges. And we had to do this with anti-inflammatory herbs. We had do do with neurofeedback, which is a brain device that helped to retrain the brain waves out of being stuck in this overreactive state, because he'd been in fight or flight for so long, his body felt uncomfortable getting out it. So it kept the immune system wrapped. It kept this body in a perpetual state. So for people, sometimes it's not just about removing the problem or vacating the moldy home.

It's about actually doing the physical therapy to the brain and rehabbing the body, the microbiome back to a safe or safety state, like where it feels comfortable state to be able to bring you out of where you were. Right. So talk to us deeper about the science behind that. How does being stuck in fight or flight physically block your body's ability to detox or to heal and repair? So I'll let you talk on this a little bit with me as we go, because I know you're an expert talking to the doctors and you get more in that language.

But where I'm going with this is, let me just talk about some testing I run. I get a person that comes in, they do a hair tissue mineral test. They do an urine organic acid test and they a blood panel. That's a start point for me in many cases. And they come in with a C-reactive protein, which is a liver marker that says, hey, the body's inflamed. That could be coming from a cold you had last week. That can come from chronic Lyme, living in mold. You name the burden. C-reactive protein just tells me that something's going on.

And it can go up and down pretty rapidly. So that tells me there's inflammation in the body. I go look at red and white blood cells. White blood are a little suppressed. That means it's probably been something that's been there chronically. A lot of times people with mold or with significant fight or flight states are going to have white-blood cells depleted. Yes, if you have chronic viruses and other infections, it is going be like that. But I honestly don't find a chronic Epstein-Barr virus very often by itself, whereas I can find mold that's triggering things.

Epsteine-Bar, if everything else is removed, it doesn't... In my practice, I don' t see that alone. I just don t. There's always a reason that it's elevated. Absolutely. Whether it is spike routine, mold, vector-borne disease, there's something usually suppressing the immune system and it s overgrowing. Yeah, so for me, it's looking for not the virus, a lot of other things for white blood cells. Something that I've seen a lotta pattern in is if albumin, which is a protein in your body, goes up. One of the only reasons it will go up is dehydration.

So if I see it go above 4.6 in your comprehensive metabolic panel, I start going, okay, the body's a little bit stressed. If it goes above five, it's actually going to pop for most of us on our, you know, above the medical range.

Autoimmune PTSD and the Bodyu2019s Memory 24:00

And that can mean dehydration, but not because you're not drinking water, because probably everybody listening to your podcast and mine, they know to drink water. And if you don't know what I'm talking about, your bare minimum is probably somewhere around 60 ounces a day, but it's going to be derived based off of your body weight and your activity level and a lot of other numbers. And when albumin goes up, again, it is not dehydration, It's likely a cortisol stress response. So your bodies have got stuck in fight or flight.

It is producing an adrenal hormone cortisol that then leads to other hormones like vasopressin changing, and we end up with more mineral salt. or sodium, potassium, and even calcium, magnesium being pushed out into urine because your body's trying to upregulate its response to the stress so that you can do more. That's allowing you to be able to go into the fight or flight and get up and have the energy so you that can be to overcome whatever that is and then go back to normal. For many of us though, when we're stuck in this, we get there for way too long.

I know I was. And that's what I'm seeing in blood. So then I go to your hair test and in your. At first, your minerals go up because your body starts using them and it's a used pattern and then it bottoms out because we've burnt out of them. Many of these people that have this long-term fight or flight state, you mentioned POTS, dysautonomia, When you feel like you're dysregulated from a nervous system perspective and your shoulders are up in your ears right now as you listen and you are leaning forward and they're pushed together and kind of uncomfortable as I'm describing you.

A lot of times these individuals, they are sodium and potassium especially when you get tired really easily upon physical activity and just get winded going up the stairs. Your sodium potassium has bottomed out and no longer up into the active range. It's just like to the bottom. So I look and I see that. And now at this point, by the way, you don't detox. So good luck doing all your chelation. Good luck. Doing all of your binders and stimulation activities like castor oil pack, because when you have sodium potassium, there's little things in your cells called sodium, potassium pumps that are required to allow stuff to go in and out in a good way.

And I've just seen people that they're locked up. Now we see that your sodium potassium's not well, your albumin's up, you're ALT and AST, which is your liver markers, are going to be, sometimes they'll go up for a while, but if they start getting more low, if their in the single digits, Your liver's going not to keep up with us trying to detox. Then we get into your organic acid test, Which is probably my favorite test right now, and I run that through Great Plains laboratory. And... Now it's mosaic for everyone listening.

Yeah, mosaic, I forget. I know. And I love theirs because I first go to their creatine marker, which is also in your, your conference, the metabolic panel. And, I look at that and I see if that's below a hundred, you're probably not the best detoxer. It doesn't mean that your detox markers like glutathione or methylation or ammonia are off, but it tells me that likely, likely we're just not putting out a lot of, of particulates into our urine. If it's blow 50, am really concerned because now I don't think that much any of our detox testing is going to be accurate.

Well, let's say we're in the good 100 to 200 range on that. And I start seeing your Krebs cycle or your ketone fatty acid oxidation cycles are off. If I see markers out of range over two markers in those sections, and there's about 20 markers if you total it all up, if I say more than two, I started thinking cell danger response. And cell danger response means your mitochondria, the powerhouse of your cells. I'm doing quotations because that's what we talk about it in middle school. And I was going to say in elementary school science.

Then you go into your doctoral program and they're like, oh yeah, by the way, it also regulates your hormones and your immune system and you're fight or flight response. So when you are in cell-danger response, your body does this. I'm going to, before cell danger response, I'll look at an infection. I will look a toxin. Okay, is this thing good or bad for me? I am going dial up the proper response. If it's pollen, i'm gonna give you some post nasal drip. That's fine. Whatever. It's something we don't really care that much about.

if it is mold, it might cause a little inflammation. Tell you to leave the area. Infection, send out the body. We're gonna try to fight off that bacterial infection If you're cell danger response, I'm going to send out every single cytokine mass cell degranulation that I possibly can have happen all in one moment. So your body will shut down and you will get the heck out of there because I don't have the bandwidth to differentiate between good and bad. And that's what cell-danger response in its worst case.

We call this mass cells, SERS, multiple chemist sensitivities, bedridden clients, and The reason why I'm here is because those people,

Testing for Inflammation, Stress, and Detox Capacity 29:00

they don't feel safe. They're stuck in a deep toxic loop. And that's more of the deeper science piece of it. I'll let you go further, because I know you can, versus the people that aren't into the mass cell SERS state. I don't feel well, but I have a little bit of energy left in my bank account to use on a day-to-day basis. And when I'm talking to somebody, I am evaluating that because when you're all the way down that, to I react to everything, we've just got to take the burden off you. Yeah. 100%. And that's why you are not getting well.

If you, if you just like I do not feel, well but, i can tolerate some things. Okay, yeah, maybe that eradication protocol might be effective for you, although I don't know that it's my favorite option, you could do a more bare minimum look at it like that. Yeah. And I mean, to elaborate a little bit, I guess I would say, if someone is stuck and can't resolve, there's three stages of cell danger response. So if you can pull out of the second stage and get into that resolution and that recovery stage, I don't know who I heard explain it to me like this, but it stuck with me.

I wish I could give them credit, But I can't. It's like, you know, if we're out living our lives and the tornado siren goes off, right? Like you're gonna, You're going to go get to like your root cellar, or you are going get the basement, Or you going go where you need to and you just stay there. You don't care about eating, you don' care sleeping, going to your job, socializing with your friends. You're like, I am in full on red alert danger mode and I'm going hide until that siren goes off and it's okay to come back out.

That's like resolution phase of cell danger response. And the body, literally the cells get stuck. they've received this warning that they are under imminent threat and so they just stop worrying about bringing nutrients in. They stop worried about pushing toxins out and they literally just shut down. So when you have somebody come in that's stuck in the cell danger response and you start trying to put them on all the supplements and all of the herbs and do this and that and, you know, all your protocols that work on like 80% of people, they don't respond and they often get sicker and have have more sensitive reactions because the body just literally can't accept anything.

And I think this goes back to like your point where it's like, The trauma pathway, the toxin pathway the inflammatory pathway they're all the same sort of pathways. And if we don't get the signal to the body that that tornado alarm has been turned off and it's safe to come out. It doesn't matter what you give to body it just continues to perceive the threat. So we have to somehow get that signaling in that the danger is being handled at least. right? So that we can start to have some sort of normalcy and normal function.

And so with these people, it's like, that's where you have to start with the basics, like getting salt into the body. You know, most, we've been brainwashed as a nation to think that salt is bad for us and salt causes all of these issues. It's, my God, if you're eating a healthy diet, you are actually not getting enough salt. You know, so we have to get to like these high quality sea salts and bring sodium into our body so that sodium potassium pump can work because that can actually play a role in this whole phenomenon too.

And then, you know going from like the very basic trace minerals to looking at the phospholipids and the phosphate lipid bilayer, right? And like restoring like proper cardio-lipin choline, serine balance in the cell membrane and in mitochondrial membrane, and get enough EPA, DHA, all these healthy fats, while from day one, we're figuring out what sort of therapy for the nervous system is going to resonate with that person. And it might be something as simple and as passive as doing like a PMA or maybe a PMF mat, you know, if they're not to the place where they are able to do, any of these extravagant brain rewiring program.

What do you think about all of that? I think that's well said because when you get somebody at the full spectrum, mitochondrial shutdown, cell danger response, sunlight, water, air, anything can be triggering because the muscles are in a position where they will degranulate or they'll cause you to have a reaction with almost no change at all. And it doesn't have to be bad or good. It's just a change, any change. So if you've ever taken your finger, just gone down your arm, right? leaves a little red spot.

If it welts up a bit, that's more degranulation than what it should be. And if it does any more than that, then hey, we've got a lot of de-granulations happening. That's your whole body. So I've had people come in that a drop of a supplement, a eye movement therapy, which blew my mind, is I had somebody doing red light actually, 30 seconds of redlight on the back of their neck. reaction. I'm like, well, first of all, that can't be a Herxheimer reaction because you're not going septic from red light.

So that's something else.

Cell Danger Response and Extreme Sensitivity 35:00

But, um, yes, like I believe that you had a reaction kinda the first time I heard it. And then after that, I hurt it three, four, five more times. It's a thing. Okay. All right, here we are. This is real. and from different people and it just, it's mind boggling how disrupted people's bodies are today. And I've gone down these rabbit holes of like, what do we do? And sometimes it's literally just go outside and stare at a tree. Because your nervous system is so in fight or flight and you're so all over the place, you are so wound up.

That has actually caused someone that I worked with to go out and look at the tree to have what they felt like was a detox reaction. And I was just like, my goodness, okay, they know where we're at. Now, the majority of people aren't there. So can you do other things? Yes, you absolutely can. We can go from staring at a tree to PEMF mats to red light therapies to peptide therapies. we can bring in thymus and alpha and BPC 157 and KPV to help to bring down inflammation and regulate the body. not always easy to get your hands on.

You can do LDN and chromaline and ketatophin, which are medications which easier to gets your hand on, not cheap. And I don't love going straight to pharmaceuticals if I need to, so I'd rather go to queers than singing netobromalin, rosemary, even vitamin C to help with inflammation, mast cell regulation, to start stabilizing things. But it's not just herbs or breath work or avoidance. It's all of those things are what's actually going to lead to me being the last doctor you have to see, not just the next doctor.

You have, which is always the goal. Yes. Such an important distinction. So let's get practical. I know you just threw some things out there, but be specific. So what would you do with this patient sitting in front of you that's reacting to everything? They've done a bit of this, they've a done bit a that, you know, They have done all the things actually, linearly. Like where do you start, what do do? What's step number one? Yeah. So these people come into my office every single day and this is the exact path I take them through.

And if you were to read my note, like how it populates itself, you know, the prefab population. It will make a lot of sense to you. And the prefab population is going to start with this. It's going say, are you in a safe environment? It is gonna ask about your hair, not your head, your air, what are your breathing? Is it radioactive? Does that mold in it? Are there VOCs? And then it's gonna go to food. What are eating? are You eating enough food? Or are the right kinds of food or the food something you're reacting to?

What is the hygiene products and cleaning products in your house? Are those toxic? Some of these things are so basic. Everybody's like, yeah, but I just had a woman last week who had radon mitigation in her house. She was dealing with mast cell. Her radion was at 14. It's supposed to be below three. And because it stopped working, they didn't even know it, right? So I always rehash these things out. Do you have dental issues that we need to work on? 86% of wisdom teeth have cavitations, which are holes that allow for infections to grow.

People miss this all the time. not just breast implants, titanium implants other implants. I've had people come in where they had joint issues they could not get over and it was because their body was having an autoimmune reaction to a titanium implant, which is super rare, but it happens and there's ways to solve that like using titanium homeopathics to calm the body's immune response to it. So we look at the whole environment, including the people. Do you have parasites in your life that are taking energy from you that our people, cause that could be damaging to you also.

Absolutely. So we look at the environment and then I say, okay, if we made the perfect environment, everything was perfect. Do you now still feel safe in that environment knowing that it's safe? And the answer to most of these people, whether it is consciously or subconsciously is no. So then, I can say okay we got to go into the brain work. And this is being done simultaneously by the way. It's not one or the other. I'm doing them simultaneously. Um, we're doing anything from primal trust, which is my absolute favorite online brain rehab program to, um, We go from there and we go into.

Neurofeedback, we'll find a practitioner local to you if we can for neurofeed back and I have them sit and do this. I don't do it the normal way. If I can find somebody that's willing to do, this is awesome. This client's stuck in fight or flight. They're very sensitive, so you can't go full speed ahead, but at some point we need to like an everyday or twice a day implementation of a fight-or-flight type program that is just calming. So this not even true neuro feedback. It's more like alpha theta relaxation, more the twilight between sleep and awake that will calm the system down.

Practical Treatment: Safety, Nervous System Work, and Gradual Rebuilding 40:00

And if you do enough of it, I've actually had people have like birthed into tears, remember why they were traumatized, stop being sensitive to food. Like I had some incredible changes with this really low risk situation. Cause it's light and calming in a room alone, relaxed. So we've had people do that. Um, stellate ganglion blocks is an injection into your neck of prokane or lidocaine over the vagus nerve area that can help you to reset your nervous system out of the fight or flight temporarily, but it has to be done at the right time with the doctor.

Can I interrupt you? How much success have you seen with that procedure? It's timing. Okay. I've seen it take away 15 or 20% of a mass cell response. When step one, which is living in a safe environment is done. Step two, is doing active brain physical therapy, Which is what I call primal trust. So that when you walk out of the stellate ganglion block, you have tools for if somebody swerves at you in traffic. It's not something I bring up day one. When tools have been implemented and steps have taken, now we can go use that.

As a part of that safe place section, I do involve some of the peptides and medications. If that person's extremely reactive, sometimes single ingredient tools like acromaline has to be brought in because an herb that has 200 phytonutrients might be more reactions than a medication and vice versa. Sometimes one or the other works. And I tell people that it's not one of these tools that's going to help calm your system. It's 12 of them. It's a little bit of a lot of them. So you might be on 0.25 of LDN or 0,5 of LDN while you're taking, uh, Dow histamine DAO, the enzyme that breaks down histamines while doing histimine diet, while during primal trust, why.

Getting your environment safe. And then finally you have 20% more bandwidth that you can now do the PEMF mat or take the antimicrobial that couldn't take before. and then that's the path of the push and pull that we go down until they're back to normal. Makes a lot of sense. And I think it's really, really important to take these initial steps again, instead of just hammering away at what we think is the underlying cause. That's the only way I've been able to see it go through for those really sensitive people.

It's fun to have somebody come into my clinic where it was like, yeah, here's a parasite cleanse, Four or five months later, they're well, but there are fewer and fewer of those people coming in than ever before. Pre-COVID, I saw 80% of that in my clinic and that was easy. We used to do those and it was done. Now, that's not what I'm seeing anymore. And people are so much more sensitive and so more chronic and the inflammatory responses are just mind boggling. Everything has been so much worse since COVID.

And I mean, obviously the spike protein and the vaccine injury and all of that plays a role for sure. Then the fact that we just constantly are being bombarded with ever the newest greatest strain of COVID is, but there's got to be more than that. I don't know if it is. We all went through a trauma, whether we think we did or not. God, you have to be living under a rock to not have some level of underlying fear of just being in this world right now. I don't know if that's what it is, or if we're just spraying more.

People are sicker than I have ever, ever seen them in the 20 years that I've been treating complex chronic illness. Agreed. Well, any last words of advice that you'd like to give our listeners, whether that's to the sensitive patient or if it's just general advice to anyone dealing with complex chronic illnesses in general, what would you like say? I want to say the thing that doesn't ever go viral that nobody wants to hear that is the most truthful thing I can say to you. It's never one thing. all of the burdens your body's under and the systems that your buddy uses that is going to get you out of being stuck.

It's not simple, it's now straightforward but it is absolutely possible and we're doing it every single day. So have hope and know that when you get with the right doctor you're going be able to systematically approach this to where the burden is being lifted.

Closing Advice and Where to Find Dr. Moore 45:00

Whether or not you feel it in the first month or three months or five months, if you're extremely sensitive, the burn is going to be lifted and it's going be testable because you can see that coming off of you as you go forward. So just keep fighting, keep having hope. Great words of advice. Can you tell our listeners how they can find you? I'm all over the place at dr dr dot J a B a N more, um, whether that's my website, my YouTube, Facebook, Instagram, all the places, Dr. Javen more. And we're putting out content every day.

Um, whatever the algorithm lets us show to try and educate and teach people and then drive them back to our email list and other places where we can give them. probably better content than what is on the, uh, you know, allowed in some of those social media platforms where we're doing podcasts like this so we can actually educate. Because I know when I was struggling back, um, almost 15, 20 years ago, this, there wasn't this much information that was accessible. So I felt lost. I feel like today people are lost in too much.

Information. And so I try to help just boil it down. Yeah, I love the way that you're able to just break everything down into simplistic concepts and terms. It's so helpful for the average listener and especially those that are filled with brain fog from having neuroinflammation from all of these infection-driven illnesses. Thank you for being here. I really appreciate it. Thanks for having me. Absolutely. And to all of you at home, thank you, for joining us for another episode of the Lime Bites podcast.

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