The Epidemic Of Sensitivity: Healing Mast Cell Activation And Histamine Intolerance

Introduction to Mast Cell Activation and Histamine Issues 0:00

Well, in our next discussion, we're going to be providing immense clarity on a couple of inflammatory conditions that can be really challenging and confusing for many people. And these are mast cell activation syndrome and histamine intolerance. And to help me do that is one of the most insightful and experienced integrative doctors out there. Doctor Christine Schaffner is a natural pathogen doctor with over 15 years of experience guiding patients through very complex, chronic illnesses. She's a pioneer in the emerging field of coherence medicine.

She integrates Cutting-Edge science with quantum principles to help people restore health, clarity, and vitality. She's recently partnered with Scylla, a new venture dedicated to building next generation clinics, practitioner training, and products that bridge bio regulatory medicine with coherence based healing. Through her clinic, clinical work, teaching and innovative projects, Doctor Schaffner is helping to create a new paradigm of medicine where patients reclaim their energy, resilience and consciousness.

Doctor Christine, welcome. Oh, thank you so much, Jason. It's always an honor to be here. And I love our dialogs over the years. Absolutely. And maybe we can start off with a couple of, terms that people may not be familiar with just to kind of provide a lens, your lens through which you see health and medicine and, and disease. And by that I mean coherence medicine. So we can talk about coherence medicine. And then bio regulatory medicine. What do these terms mean to you, and how does that sort of inform how you see health.

Yeah. Thank you so much. And you know, this has been an evolution and a journey. And I feel really you know, I'm at this really amazing, you know, place of gratitude with my years of experience. And, you know, life keeps changing and evolving. And, you know, the stressors on the human body keep changing and evolving. And I think through my journey as a clinician, I've also, you know, had this desire to help people really, truly heal on a soul level and not just, you know, prescribe, you know, the best protocol, but really there's a deeper meaning of healing and, you know, I've always been really passionate about, quantum physics, biophysics.

You know, the electricity in the body, the electromagnetism, the light, the sound, you know, the ether, the field that we're, you know, swimming in and this idea that we're, you know, all, you know, freed or is and we have this unlimited or unlimited potential around us and within us. And how do we access that? And so, you know, I've been on a journey and I don't pretend to have all the answers. It's just really an inquiry for my career. And my personal experience really deepened. My desire to, you know, bridge all these principles together.

I went through an immense, you know, stressful time that many people out there who are listening are either in or have, you know, been able to see that in retrospect. And I've really leaned on these principles. So I would say, the field meditation, heart, brain coherence, group healing, trust, faith, and really the desire to live holy and that really, you know, developed in, you know, my medicine as I, you know, healed in my own life. And I was grateful to be trained right out of naturopathy at school and by regulatory medicine.

So this is the idea that's very similar to natural Catholic medicine that the body is intelligent, right? That we are not here to fix anything. We're here to remove obstacles, to allow that vitality to run through the body and heal what is wiser than any doctor. Right. So by regulatory medicine really is there's, you know, firmness in this foundation. And then we have principles like interference fields. So we mean like what are very common, overlooked, ideas that are blocking vitality and regulation.

And that can be focal infections where the body no longer responds. And there's this reservoir of pathogens or toxicants that keep, you know, poisoning the body. But it's silent and mysterious. And so that can be and tonsils can be in the sinuses can be in the mouth. We look at conventional dentistry and the practices that can really affect the, meridian system, the lymphatics, the fascia, the nervous system. And we, you know, work with great biological dentists to treat that.

Coherence Medicine and Bio-Regulatory Principles 4:18

And it's also a terrain based, philosophy where we are there to allow the body to be, you know, empowered and resilient and adaptable, and we not don't only focus on the outside environment, which we're very presence to and aware of, but how do we build from within a organism that can, you know, thrive even in the utmost stressful times? Right. So that has really guided me in clinical practice. One other interference field I didn't mention are scars. So scars can affect the electrical and the energy and, body and also the lymphatics and the fashion, the nervous system.

So those are really rewarding to treat as well. So that body of work has really guided my career. And, you know, definitely helped me to help a lot of people. And then I would say I, you know, was already dabbling in of with these ideas before my own journey. And I landed on this idea. I know you and I both really love the term coherence, and I really kind of thought, okay, coherence medicine. What does that mean? Right. So care coherence is a principle in physics where it talks about when to waveforms are in phase and they're in communication.

They're in alignment. There is a basically a amplification of energy, for healing. And this can be applied to, you know, just principles of physics to, you know, quantum physics to life, to health. And what I mean, with this and the healing environment is that, you know, how do we create alignment within the body, right? Within the systems of regulation, which are the nervous system, the fascia within, you know, the biochemistry. But also then I kind of think of that we have all these, you know, parts of who we are. Right.

And how do we, create wholeness. And we're not, you know, ignoring those hidden or fragmented or those things that we don't want to look at, but we create a wholeness, you know, that we become more whole and not only a physical level, but, you know, energetic. And there's many other levels, to this, but also really a soul level that we can be in communication with our higher self. You know, whatever we believe in and have a connection to guide us. Right? Life is always going to, you know, bring to us, you know, obstacles or learning experiences or challenges.

But how do we, you know, come back to our selves and, you know, know that we're part of something bigger and greater and in communication in connection with that. And that really is, you know, an evolution. And I'm sure next year I'll have a different definition. But that's, you know, where I am, you know, today with these ideas and how they inform me. Well, it's interesting as you as you say, that kind of what comes up for me is, you know, as a student of Arvada and a little bit of Chinese medicine and a little bit of indigenous medicines around the world.

These are the type of things that that really inform those practices. Right? So there's there's a in other words, there's a deeper aspect beyond the chemistry, beyond even the biology that we can see through microscopes. Right. And and also what came up for me was it's what I've noticed is that it's the practitioners who really have, had the courage to, to walk into these fields of very difficult cases where there's clients that come to them and it's it's very complex. They're very compromised. And that's not an easy thing.

And the more a practitioner, a doctor has seen those type of patients or clients, the more I think they're kind of forced to open up beyond their training to something else. In other words, you kind of run into the into the wall a little bit. You run into dead ends with these people. And if you have the heart and the desire to help, then it forces you to branch out into something that you have not looked at yet, to something that is beyond your scope and inevitably run into these ideas and these concepts that maybe seem a little foreign or unfamiliar at first.

But there's a there's a resonance within you of something that's missing in your clinical practice or a clinical experience, and you start bringing them in. Right? And I love that you said, like, there's this anticipation of probably next year I'll think differently. Or, you know, two years from now I'll have a different perspective. And that comes from the experience of recognizing the humility and the the lack of full knowledge of this stuff, because it is so complex and we are such amazing creatures.

But yet there's this deep trust that the patient can heal the body can heal, that the body mind, the spirit, the soul. There's there's something so intelligent there that no matter how complex the case, no matter how foregone this seems to be, that there is a vitality there that has an unbelievable capacity to recover. And and so anyway, that's just kind of what I've noticed, that there's certain people out there and you're one of those that really continues to walk into the flame of the unknown.

Yeah. Thank you so much. And, you know, I you know, I totally echo that. And I'm very humbled. You know, I think all of us, lead I leave school and we begin practice. You know, we have all these ideas, and we're not going to do this. We're not going to do that. We're only going to do this. And then we're so humbled by we have to be open what works for that individual person. And that might, you know, challenge our inner belief system or our knowing at the time. But it, you know, stretches us right.

And, you know, through my own journey and I just really have, this desire to not only, you know, anybody who shows up in my office that I, of course, have a desire to see them return to wholeness and to see their physical body not being suffering. But I also very much know that, you know, I don't have all the answers and that I just want to be open to the possibility of those answers potentially coming through me for that person. Absolutely. I feel like that has really guided me, whether that's intuition, trust, knowledge, wisdom, I I'm not sure, but it's probably a combination of all of that.

And, you know, sometimes I'm sitting in front of a person, I'm like, I have no idea where this is going to go, but I have a rhythm and a cadence in my office, and that allows me to open up to other information. And that's usually where I get the answers, if I'm truly honest. And it's, it's funny, I thought I found this to be the case in relationships in, in my own system, in, in business, whatever the case is the balance of sort of masculine and feminine. And what I'm hearing you said that I think, I think a lot of patients or, or clients may not get a lot of is this sort of feminine aspect of the doctor's listening and following instead of trying to take charge.

And I'm going to create health and, you know, and so, I think this is what I noticed missing a lot in, in clinical practice. But in this discussion, I want to talk specifically about a few conditions, a few cases that are very challenging for people. And these you can kind of lump them in together as sort of inflammatory conditions. And again, we give them these names and which may or may not be all that relevant, but nevertheless it helps us to identify what we're working with here. So one of them is is referred to as mast cell activation syndrome.

Another one might be histamine intolerance. You might have a couple others that you find work into this mix as well, but kind of let you kind of paint this broad overview of what these things are, and how people can can think about them in the sort of, let's say, traditional context before we dive in and discover a little more. Yeah, absolutely. And I actually spoke at a conference, this spring in, in all these ideas of what I was going to say. And I told the, conference organizer, I said, you know, there's just really an epidemic of sensitivity out there.

And he's like, I want you to talk about that. And I it's really been something that has, again, humbled me. You know, I have been practicing for 15 years. And in the beginning, I would say there were those patients, we would call them multiple chemical sensitive. They might even have the emerging ideas we had about electro hypersensitivity. But these are the people that you would they would walk in your office. And if somebody had perfume or a cell phone, you know, fibers down, they would instantly feel that and their body would react.

And, you know, a lot of people just love these people and the psychosomatic or, you know, they're just crazy or how could that be true? But, you know, I witnessed them enough that I noticed that this was totally

Sensitivity, Mast Cells, and Histamine Intolerance 12:36

something very real that maybe we didn't understand at the time, which we actually didn't understand at the time, but we understand more now. And I saw those people get better, you know, as well. So, I would say sensitivity at this point is a spectrum and it can be modulated. So it is a symptom and it's not a diagnosis. And I think that we were all kind of forced to learn this, that those of us who are practicing and because since Covid and I can rundown why since Covid but since COVID's been in our terrain, sensitivity has been exponentially increased in people.

And I've just seen this. So when we think about masks and we think about histamine, intolerance, histamine intolerance is on one end of the spectrum. And then mast cell activation is on another end of the spectrum. And then even further is mosquito psychosis, which is a clinical diagnosis that's pretty extreme. And outside of, you know, our scope of this conversation. So and then within histamine intolerance and mast cell there's a lot of variations. And a lot of people are in the gray zone if you want to diagnose them clinically.

So it's really a clinical diagnosis at this time. And where I really want us to focus, you know, for these folks is when we really kind of lay the narrative and the model around the mast cell and what it does, what it responds to, and wives overreacting and hypervigilant in these terms. But these patients are, very sensitive to the environment. They're often called, what we call postural or static, tachycardia. So they're dizzy. When they stand up, their heart rate goes up. They have a lot of arrhythmia.

They'll have flushing in their cheeks. They'll have brain fog, they'll have sky anxiety. They have insomnia, nausea. They'll have diarrhea. They'll have got pain. They'll have, you know, pain. And they're very sensitive to environmental stressors. You know, they have often correlated, even if it's stress or when I take this or when I'm here, my body overreacts and some people are blessed. Said they know their triggers. In some people, it's a trigger all day long. Right. So they have these multi systemic and multi variable symptoms that are you know there's a big throughline when you understand terrain medicine, regulation and math so that you can really create momentum for these folks.

And I would say that there's some new directions I want to go. So I'll start here. So when I talk about regulation, when I talk about this ability for everybody to heal and we all have this ability, the two big networks of communication in our body are the autonomic nervous system and the fashion. So the autonomic nervous system is all of our automatic functions. Right. And many of us kind of understand the autonomic nervous system through our vagus nerve. Right. So there's a lot of awareness around the vagus nerve, which is a big nerve in our body that comes from our brainstem wraps around your neck and innervates our heart or lungs in our gut.

And it helps us to, you know, basically, very simplistically, change gears from sympathetic to parasympathetic. And there's poly vagal theory too, but we won't go into that for this conversation. And then there's the fascia, which is not just a structural fabric. It's a fabric of communication, and irrigation in the body. So the health of the fascia is really important to get, communication networks and cellular signaling and mitochondrial signaling, throughout the body. And if one area is damaged, it can affect the whole or one area.

Bio accumulates different toxicants or trauma or pathogens that can affect the whole. So those systems are actually also where our mast cells love to harm and our muscles are an alarm. So they're part of our immune system that when you get a bee sting is going to go respond and get to go throw out over 200 mediators to engage the other parts of the immune system, to clear that venom out of that tissue. You know, there might be swelling in the short term, redness, itching, you know. So forth. And in extreme examples, people might start to get a swollen tongue or their throat might start to close.

And then that is, you know, either somebody gets an EpiPen or Benadryl and then things calm down, you know, or the body clears and so on. But in, you know, our modern terrain, we have mast cells around our vagus nerve, around our autonomic nerves, around our, you know, connective tissue, our fascia or matter lymphatics around our blood vessels, around our brain and around our gut. And in the modern marine, we're not just looking for a bee sting. These are the areas where lining infections love to hang out.

Covid loves to hang out, spike protein pumps to have mold and mycotoxins levels to hang hanging know viruses and retroviruses love to hang out. Hasidic infections like to hang out. And also these mast cells respond to vibration so they can respond to potentially 5G or, you know, a, a scent that gets transmitted to biochemistry in the body. So they're sensing and feeling and responding to our environment. And I think what's happened that Covid really just accelerated for people is that our terrains are overburdened and they are at this time where there's not as much, you know, rest in between triggers, that there's a kind of constant alarm signal being spoken and the body around key regulatory tissues.

And when mast cells become hypervigilant, they become very sensitive, to degrading late. And when they're deep granulated, often they create these symptoms. So that is, you know, there's so many more things to elucidate there. But that's mast cell activation. And then histamine intolerance truly is. And people have an enzyme called diamine oxidase, especially in their gut lining efforts. And lower amounts or AP genetically lower amounts, in their intestine. They don't break down histamine as well in their digestive tract.

And, or they don't mutilate histamine, to get eliminated and their body and their liver, well, with their H methyl and transferase enzymes. So there is kind of a reduction of capacity, I of course, think always epigenetic. So these people are going to respond. So if you give them good liver support and Dow enzyme to take with meals, they start responding. It's not that you have to use like 5 to 7 different strategies to calm themselves down. So you can actually treat their underlying causes. So let's go into we're going to hit them in a little bit.

Later I want to stay on mast cells now. So these are clearly very important immune mechanisms in the body. And we're kind of losing our, our tolerance. Right? We're losing our discernment at that level because they're so hyper vigilant. What you mentioned a few things. Why else might somebody have mast cell activation syndrome? Why might that kick start. You know, and a couple of things that come to mind for me are, you know, something like a head trauma. Right. So how the heck would that, you know, translate something ten, 15 years ago or molt from 10 or 15 years ago, or how does something from maybe a long time ago, maybe a significant traumatic event?

How does that how does that translate into mast cell activation syndrome being kind of this biochemistry that we're losing control over? Yeah. And I kind of think of, you know, there is usually maybe potentially an event that people, you know, connecting the cell activation to. But there is a lot that happens underneath that event that makes them vulnerable. So I kind of say like, you know, my average patient, you know, starts at preconception, right. And then you know, how they were born. What was their prenatal and postnatal care.

You know, what was their age? 0 to 7. You know, did they, you know, get mono really badly, then get a tick bite and lived at mold, then had a horrible relationship. And some of these things they may not even know. Right. Like some of you may not know that you're exposed to more than eight years old. Your parents may not have known. Right? Like, this is what makes it so complex and tricky as a practitioner or a doctor, as well as a patient, to try to figure out what's causing this. That. Right? Totally.

And, you know, we're we're detectives at the end of the day. And, you know, when somebody comes with like a very linear experience, which is very not common, but if they said I had a head injury and then, you know, wasn't the same, you know, we have to think about, you know, do detective work and, you know, tests are getting better. They still are lackluster, but they are getting better to try to understand, you know, the train that person and why they were vulnerable. So, you know, mast cells are around the nerves.

They're around the lymphatic, vessels. They're around the blood vessels. And, you know, through, environmental, biochemical, vibrational or trauma, terrain triggers, they can be sounding off those alarm bells. And so then, you know, with a head injury, one of the biggest things that happens in the brain is that the lymphatic activity changes, right. So then there's going to be more bioaccumulation of toxicants and pathogens in, that extracellular space between the neurons. And so that is going to create more instability for the mast cell because there are that, you know, I always go back to the extracellular matrix no matter what I'm saying, because it's the health of the body, is really this microcosmic space which mast cells hang out.

And that whole theory year that our lymphatic drainage is that the waste is able to be taken out of the cells, that the lymphatic drain. Then there's not this bioaccumulation of aluminum and mercury and microplastics and, you know, lining co-infections and spike protein. And it's really that combination of things is number one thing. My job would be very easy if it was one thing. It creates this environment that the immune cells have to respond, that that's their job. They're constantly basically bombarded and triggered by these environmental insults and this extracellular matrix that creates this, inflammatory, you know, propagation

Fascia, Extracellular Matrix, and Lymphatic Flow 23:00

because histamine, we talk about all the time. Right. And histamine allows us to kind of really understand this because we all have a sense of histamine. You know, things are itchy red, inflamed. And I would say they're leaky. You know, they're the vessels are leaky. Part of histamines job is to create space in the vessels. So the immune cells can, you know, come in. But often, you know, if that's prolonged, there's a demand for space and swelling and just more stagnation breeds, there's other things.

Vasodilators and, you know, other chemokines and cytokines that, you know, engage other, basically immune cells to respond and react. So the whole communication trail of a mast cell. It's not just the mast cell in the local environment, it's the communication trail that it that it signals that that also creates inflammation. So our immune system so amazing and wise. But if we're creating something that's supposed to be acute in short term, like the bee sting, but it's an everyday experience, you can see how these people are chronically inflamed and don't feel good, you know, at all.

Yeah. And so so it can be these sort of significant triggering events, right, that create this sort of mast cell activation syndrome, this expression that we might go to a doctor for, or more likely, it sounds like, is it these series of events happening over the course of ten, 20, 40 years that accumulate, that eventually overwhelm the capacity of your immune system, of that communication system and the mast cells in particular, and how they're expressing? And then it's almost like all of a sudden this thing happens, right?

And so I think that's what's confusing, you know, and and even as a practitioner, it took me a minute to really fully see that play out in so many people because basically everybody kind of says what, one day it just happened, right? Yeah. And like and it's not necessarily one day, but it may be a course of a couple of weeks, but in your mind it's a very real like black and white kind of type of time frame. And the reality is, is that's been building up, in somebody most likely. And then there's the straw generally that breaks the camel's back.

Yeah. And Covid was a big, you know, straw for people recently. And I think that's why we see so much sensitivity where the people got the injection or had the infection. Everybody has a spike protein mode. I actually measure that in lab cords. The best test we have at this time to look at quantitative antibody dilution. And so I have, you know, there's only been a few people I've seen that were negative. And then some people, you know, they stop reporting over 25,000. So I see this huge range. And, you know, I found a few papers that talked about spike protein specifically, basically, binds and stimulates the mast cell.

So if you have high circulating spike protein, you're going to be constantly triggering your, you know, essentially mast cells, right? We also know that anything that stirs up IgG, E or, you know, globulin E, which we can measure total immunoglobulin E and LabCorp quest as well. And if that's elevated, that's often because the body's trying to tag through an antibody response and have the other parts of the immune system recognize what they've tagged. It's often a parasitic infection or other infections.

And IG by itself communicates. But Marcel has an IgG receptor. So that also, you know, creates hypervigilance. You know, the mast cell. And, you know, I, I don't have all the words for it at this point, Jason, but it's like one part of our immune system and monitoring is very hyper responsive and hyper inflamed. Right. Our T, h2 plus, it's not just true, but it's our mast cells. It's our itchy stage two response. And then one part of our immune system is completely suppressed. Right. My patients have low white blood cells, low natural killer cells, low total immunoglobulin G.

So you know, the things that the body needs to do to clean up these terrain triggers are not happening without facilitation of support. So that's also perpetuating the cycle, if that makes sense. Yeah, absolutely. And this is part of the reason, I think that you and I may be both landed on sort of terrain theory by regulatory medicine and trust in the body's immune system so insanely complex that we have balancing mechanisms and we have, you know, counteracting forces. Right. And with seed cells and we got T cells and we got Interleukins.

And there's like so many moving parts that, yes, we can sort of map it out biochemically, but in real time it's like insane what the body's capable of sort of orchestrating. Right. And so I totally hear that point. So, you know, with that said, with regard to mast cells and Marcus, how might somebody. Well, actually, before I get into that, you know, you mentioned a couple things that I think may be helpful for some people to, to kind of really, get a better picture of the landscape you mentioned, the fascia.

Right. You mentioned, the the extracellular matrix. And so how do these in the lymphatic system. Right. So three kind of different terms, all kind of speaking in the same realm. So maybe you can flush that out because this is not an area that that looks some people talk about lymphatic system but but the fascia and extracellular matrix and how it works together with things like the spleen and the liver and, and the gallbladder and like all our other systems is not necessarily well known. Yeah. Yeah, absolutely.

And this is, you know, a place I inquire and I try to, you know, evolve my model over time. You know as well. And when I speak about this, I often show these pictures. So I'm glad you focused us there. So, in my understanding, this time, you know, the body is interconnected, just like life, right? And it's a microscopic microcosm of that microcosm expression. And the fascia, I believe, gives us a throughline of this continuum. Right. So people who have studied this, Doctor Sean McLeod, Gambir Toe and Doctor James Ashman have called the fascia continuum or the Living matrix, that it might take different shapes or forms, but it is the same fabric from the skin, to the DNA of the cell.

And we could expand upon that if we wanted to today. But with that, ideas. So we have our skin, we have different layers of dermis, then a new organ that was newly discovered, you know, maybe less than ten years ago is the Interstitium, which is part of this continuum that they thought when we see, like a dead body, we see different things in a living body. And as our observation techniques expand, we learn more about the living body. So we used to think there are these two stacks of collagen, which is part of the fascia.

But now we know that there are these kind of vacuoles of fluid underneath the, the fascia that is kind of the pre lymphatics. So the lymphatics are within the facial fabric and it's all kind of one continuum. So we have the dermis seven layers of the dermis. We have the interstitium. And then we you know travel you know through these deeper networks and different densities of fascia, you know, organs, you know, depending on where we are and the fascial fabric weaves throughout this. So it's, you know, part of our connective tissue or collagen metrics.

Collagen is the most abundant protein in the body. It also delivers, the form of plasma water to our tissues. So there's, structured water flowing and flowing around and through that collagen, matrix. And then, you know, as we get into smaller spaces. Right. So it's just different shapes and densities and different parts of the body. But there's a through line within each, you know, part of the body called the extracellular matrix. So whether you're in a liver cell or you're in a neuron or in you're in a valley of the intestine, and there is this idea of the space between the cell and that has the collagen fabric going through it, creating structure, but also communication and delivering water.

We have protease glycans which are sulfate and negative charged feather like projections that kind of move fluid in that space. We have the micro vessels of the capillaries of the arterial system that is, delivering oxygen to the space. But it's also the beginning of the lymphatics, because a lot of fluid from the capillaries leaves up space and becomes what we call interstitial fluid or prelims. So its job is to bathe the cells with oxygen and nutrients. And then there is, movement in that space that gets taken up that so it gets taken up by, lymphatic capillaries which are draining this fluid.

And health is how well this fluid is moving so negatively charged the spaces. And whether or not, you know, the lymphatics are taking and draining the space or if there is stagnation. Right. And so, again, when there is movement, the cells can basically eliminate their waste. The waste can be taken out through, that the lymphatic capillaries, there can be more connection and communication between the cells. There can be delivery of information throughout the body. And everything's healthy. Right.

And then we have immune cells in that space. We have fibroblasts that break the space down and build it up so it remains healthy. We have other white blood cells and we have our cells. So my cells are and it's straight line. Right. They're there to see what's for and what's, you know, what's an invader, what's not. And a big part of lymphatic system is to not only drain and detoxify metabolic waste, but also environmental, you know, exposures. And also it's a big part of our immune surveillance because whatever has been carried through the space that no longer belongs, will be taken through the lymphatics and part of the lymphatic network exposes like the lymph, either to the spleen or to lymph nodes, or to gold or malt or these areas of high concentration, you know, immune activity that can, identify and create a response through B cells or T cells, so that hopefully the body can lower that load or get rid of what is a foreign invader.

So what happens when the space gets overwhelmed, which is the crux of the cell conversation is okay, you have an aluminum exposure of aluminum is very high charged right. And it's three plus often body it's going to bind to the negatively charged protein glycans or collagen. Right. And that's going to create, you know, problems opportunities. Mercury's the same way like a C can be embedded into the collagen matrix because it looks like glycine, which is an amino acid we use to make collagen. Right. Microplastics.

We're still learning how they plug up all these pieces, line labs to, degrade collagen and thrive off of, you know, those amino acids. So it's going to break down that space. You know, parasites can hang out fungi, all of these things. Mycotoxins. So we can see how that can get that area can get distorted and stagnant. And then also through everything I just said and also, let's just say five g the water in our body can not, be a structured or in this plasma. 302 state. So we're losing negative charge.

We're losing an energy and information in the body. So a lot of things disorder coherence on a level and really micro level. And so really to restore balance in the Marcellus to restore coherence in the body. Right. These levels of, you know, regulation. And so, no matter what decade I am in, in practice or what the injury or the latest assault is, there's always a mechanism of how it either creates movement or stagnation in these spaces. And that's really the key to health. Yeah. And that's kind of why I wanted to go there first before we get into solutions, because it's such an important topic.

And the way I kind of think about it, it's almost like, you know, if you, if you, peel an orange, right? And you open an orange and you see just this matrix of, of orange tissue that's sort of holding water in a way, right? Or a watermelon might be the same thing. Right? And it's like 97 or 98% water, whatever the case is. But it's all that living matrix within there that is somehow interweave. Right. So that's that's kind of my mental model for how I think about the body, because before I know, I think most people think about it in layers, in separate things.

Right. So when you think about the skin and then you get another layer of skin and then you get another layer of something and then a layer of fat, and then a layer of, you know, muscle. There's like there's actual things going from top to bottom and ins and outs and down to the micro. And, you know, it's like so there's it's like it's like roots of a tree that just go everywhere. Right. And and then there's soil in there. Right. So there's like there is it's not it's just continuum of living tissue and water.

Treatment Strategies for Mast Cell Stabilization 35:48

And that is facilitating, as you mentioned, energy, electricity, information, vitality, life force, prana key. However you want to describe that as well as molecules and chemicals and, and toxins and waste. Right. Because sure as heck we're living and breathing. We're going to produce waste. And somehow that's got to get out of us. And it's not all filtering through the liver and the blood in the kidneys and the stores. Right. Like it is going elsewhere. And so this is, I think, still really what.

But a lot of Western science is trying to figure out is how does all this actually happen? And and I think to some degree, we don't need to know all the details, but really important to understand how critical this system is that is often forgotten about. We talk about the liver, we talk about the gallbladder, we talk about the kidneys. Right. And we we and these organs of elimination, quote unquote. But, you know, it's only now, I'd say in the last 10 or 15 years, really, that that many people are starting to talk about the lymphatic system.

But even then, extracellular matrix and these sort of more, I guess, hidden, unknown aspects of how the body functions. But this becomes the critical piece for figuring out the, the central issue, of most health and disease. So this is the this is the framework for, for most of our data from a body level. You know, it's like things are clogged, things are not moving. And as you mentioned earlier, when we have that stagnation, when we when we don't have lifeforce energy in parts of the body, there's some block there.

The field is, is, is being blocked. Well, that is where I guess you could say other aspects of life will start to degrade it. In other words, there's an aspect of like this is dead. It's in the necrotic tissue. There's, toxins in waste. And so this is where microorganisms, parasites, other things start to come in and do some damage because it's almost like a tree that falls in the forest. There's going to be these things that come in and consume that and recycle it. Right. And that's kind of what happens when lifeforce energy stops flowing.

Other elements of life start to recycle it and break it down, generate it because it's not useful. Right. So we need to restore that vitality, that flow, that lifeforce energy that movement. And that's how we regain our health and the communication that's required to maintain that. Yeah. No, I love everything you just said. And I feel like the extracellular matrix, you know, outside our conversation today is also this really this bridge of science and spirituality and this totally bio regulatory medicine, coherence medicine, and this bridge of biochemistry and quantum physics.

It's all happening in such a physics game at that level. Like, no question, I need to go to Buckminster Fuller. You can go in there. You know, like all these physics guys because it's there's some there's literally magic happening at that level, or what appears to be magic. And when you get into the deep physics and the bio physics, it all seems like magic because it's so miraculous. So with all that said, what? How can somebody think about, treating quote unquote, dealing with approaching massive activation syndrome, knowing that it might this sort of core issue may have come from any number of things, 20 different, you know, sort of root causes, you could say, or environmental factors.

How does somebody navigate that, that, that condition. Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, with regulation medicine we often talk about like a first step is okay finding interference fields, mitigating them. You know having a plan for them. So remind us real quick what. Fields can be, focal infections where the body stops responding. And there's kind of an overwhelming amount of from a reservoir of microbes or toxicants that are chronically poisoning the, the lymphatics and the autonomic nervous system.

So that can be the sinuses, the tonsils. Yeah. In fact, that's it. I just had an interview with doctor Miles and we talked about mark ons. Right. So more ons being one of those things that people kind of overlook and continuously will seed, the gut and system overall. Exactly. And so, so essentially, you know, in train medicine, we think about that, we think about the autonomic nervous system. And today, like a lot of vagus nerve support, lymphatic work. And, you know, just starting to gently getting the body started to move before we go into deeper work.

And I now in my protocols, I have, you know, massage as part of regulation work, like, it's really, because if the mast cells are over firing and interfering with our communication networks, we're never going to get anywhere. And kind of what flipped it on its head for me, my understanding, I used to think like, oh, you know, we have to treat all the underlying causes and then people will stop being sensitive. And that works before 2020. And now after 2020, we have to stabilize the mast cell at whatever cost we need to in order to treat the underlying issues so that the person can have not only, you know, suffering relief, of course, but in order to treat those underlying causes, we are going to move things in the body, right?

We're going to, you know, identify tags, clear, mitigate, you know, reduce load of all of these things. And that is going to basically come against the mast cell with the normal cells already hypervigilant. You're going to get nowhere in treatment because people are going to be calling you every other day because they're so sensitive and not responding. So I've learned many different things, you know, over the years, you know, to treatment cells. And I would say, there are natural substances that work for some people.

Right. So Dao enzyme, quercetin, vitamin C, different herbal combinations that are out there from different companies. There's also peptides, you know, that work especially like BPC. 157 Spiva. Those are kind of the big ones. Butyrate is actually mast cell stabilizer type uterine. There's also, I learned this clinically that, people who are responding, especially those who have pots to higher and higher salt electrolytes and the higher salt electrolytes, actually not only help with blood volume.

And to help them, you know, be less dizzy, but they actually if you're salt efficient, you could actually destabilize the membrane of the muscle and affect the granulation more. So getting people more like sodium chloride and potassium are really important to reducing the a good way to kind of go way. That's good. If people tolerate that. I need high salt electrolytes. So they're different in this out there. But I mean I mean I've been yeah just really surprised. But good salt people can tolerate 1000mg of sodium chloride 3 to 4 times a day, you know, especially when they're in crisis.

Well, and then Gaba, there are Gaba receptors on the mast that actually help to, calm down. The vagus nerve and the mast cells have a dance. So the mast cells are around the vagus nerve. So when they discriminate that affects autonomic nervous system. How do you how do you sorry. How do you like to, how would how would you suggest somebody consume Gaba? Because, you know, if you have certain forms, right, aren't going across the board, you're not going to be very effective, right? Yeah. We're reformulating our Somnium.

It's coming out, end of 2025. We're doing a topical Gaba. I love topicals for this patient population because there's so much reactivity. When you go top down, with these patients that sometimes an intro way is to, you know, use a living matrix to get into the lymphatics. So that is awesome. I also, love, pharma, Gaba, liposomal Gaba, those all work, you know, to, you know, but it's important to recognize that if it's just a regular Gaba pill that you buy on Amazon, it's too big, right? It's not going to actually cross the blood brain barrier.

It's going to get broken down, I believe. Right. If you just take it orally, for example, which is why some sort of Micronesia liposomal or again, better yet, topical is going to be more effective. Yeah, absolutely. And but, clinical pearl of people are on benzos to get through their day. It's often so issue because Marshalls basically benzos are working with the kappa receptors in the Gaba, pathways in the body. And they also stabilize people's mast cells because a lot of people with nasal activation anxiety is so part of our journey, is just stabilizing cells with other things.

And then when people off over time of their deaths make sense, and if somebody is super like is just hypersensitive to the max, they can't take quercetin, they can't take, glucose iron, like they're just reacting to everything. Would you say that nervous system work is kind of like where they should start? Yeah. So, you know, I'll use, so the mast cells around the vagus nerve. So we need mast cells to be stable for the nervous system. But we also need the vagus nerve to work, to, basically have that anti-inflammatory muscle kind of help them be so hypervigilant.

So that can be, nervous system work that could be facilitated. Colleen, I've been using a lot of B1 and different forms of B1. There's, Pearson Plus or thiamin that I'll use, and different doses to get people's vagus nerve kind of start coming down. People's vagus nerve is infected and toxic. So there's other downstream, you know, things to do, but to kind of get it working, vagus nerve stimulators can work too. For some folks, the nicotine patch can help, especially if there's spike protein, involvement.

That's usually kind of a step two, I would say, rather than a step one. And then I will, pound off an H1, H2 and nasal stabilizers for those super sensitive folks. So that can be like a to Todd often work from land or Claritin or XR. Check. I don't like using Pepcid as a block stomach acid, but every now and then you have to to get people progress. And so it's kind of like I honestly, it's, you know, I say this all the time. It often takes 5 or 6 strategies just to create stability before you treat people.

Now, you know, that's been my biggest, you know, learning curve for sure over these last five years. Yeah. And that's I think with mast cell it can be so complex. And there can be such a, an order of operations that, generally it's I think you would probably agree it's it's tough to wing it. It's tough to go to somebody that's maybe heard of it or is has some familiarity with it. Doesn't have the experience and working with that. So finding someone who really knows kind of is really literate in that in that world and has experience, going through that process I think is is pretty critical and one other thing that has really changed the game for a lot of my patients.

Doctor Tina Moore taught me about microdosing GLP ones when she opens.

Scylla Clinic and Future Training Programs 46:36

They're controversial, but when you think about it, glucagon like peptide one is created in our brainstem and in our gut microbiome, another key area where mass cells are overreactive. Right. And so production and receptor activity and receptor binding goes down with stress or age. And so I think like kind of like melatonin or tell me about another molecule like we're running around in deficient states. And mast cells have GLP one are receptors. So they actually have receptors. So it's you know, so by the way, we're not advocating to go out and take a bunch of microdosing for a very specific reason.

Totally. So, GLP one for weight loss is like a whole other strategy and it's higher dose. So like it's 2.5mg of semaglutide or 2.5 to 15, milligrams rather of otter's appetite. Right. Those are the doses we're starting with .05 milligrams. That's a microcosm, semaglutide. Sometimes we add up to .1.2, but not often. And the biggest thing, if this works for some people, it's a once a week injection. You can take it orally, but I don't I haven't figured the dosing out as well because there's first pass and it's a little more complicated to get people the micro dose.

But when this works I it's like so rewarding because people are like, they're less inflamed because a lot of people with myself like Adem those tissues. So they're just they're not fat, they're just swollen. Right? They can't, you know, a demon, their legs are in there that are in their tissues. So they're less swollen. They just feel more steady and stable, like they have a stronger foundation. That's what they tell me over and over again. This works. And then from there, I can treat them, you know, better.

So then I'm not as relying on each one or each to that's still in there. You know the game. So it's more of like a the really elegant mechanism. To stabilize some of these folks. And it's not for everyone, obviously, but for the people that it works. It works really well. Yeah. That's amazing. Well, this has been fantastic. Christine, I want to, before we close out, I want you to tell us a little bit about see that this new clinic that you guys and that you and, I think Sinclair are actually opening together.

Right. And this is kind of a really it sounds like a really advanced clinic to, to bring some of these things into practice. Yeah. Thank you. Thank you so much, Jason. So, Sinclair, cannily, and I are dear friends also along a very similar mission. And her husband, Michael, spindle is also they've also been through a healing journey and been in the front line of practicing, you know, for many years. And so we just have a very shared mission that we wanted to create a place not only as a model for this new paradigm, but for a place that people can really change and transform, you know, when they show up for a few days to a week and, you know, we have everything from nervous system support to, advanced energy medicine and sound healing to different oxygen therapies and ozone.

And then a really awesome I.V. room where we're, bringing in blood filtration from Europe and also the very best regenerative medicine. So we're trying to really create a model of coherence, at least in this day and age, what we know at this time and really, we just have so much compassion. There's so many people who come to us that have been sick for decades, and we just want people to, you know, feel well in their body, in their spirit, so they can really engage in what they came here to engage with or not so purpose level.

And so, so, yeah, we're creating this, center. It's opening in October of 2025, in Carlsbad, California. And we're also doing trainings and having retreats there as well. So just yeah, take a look at the website when you get a chance. And we'd be honored to serve you there. Yeah. Beautiful. And it's in my backyard, so I'm gonna have to find a way to, come in and, you know, just knock off some, some fun stuff. Yeah, yeah, yeah. So I couldn't I couldn't advocate more for, the work that Christine's doing.

And Sinclair, they have, definitely shared, mission, shared mindset, shared brilliance. So anybody who goes there is going to really get a lot of experience and understanding at a deep, deep level that many places can't offer. So, so exciting that you guys are opening that. And Christine, thank you so much for coming on today. I really appreciate you joining us. Oh, thank you so much, Jason. It's always a pleasure. Thank you.