Thermography 101: The Imaging Tool Every Woman Should Know About

Introduction to Thermography 0:00

Only a very small percentage of breast cancers are genetically connected. When you take the whole of all cancers in general, 5% are genetically connected. That means we have a lot of say in what's coming in and happening to our body. So we have to be aware of what we're putting on and in our body. I think it's just kind of, I don't know, I guess like, I wouldn't do it. I wouldn't just wait and not do something proactive because you're going to pay for your health at some point. You're either going to pay and invest in it upfront so that you can maintain your health or you're going to pay someday because you're sick and now you have to deal with the consequences of that.

I would rather pay up front and invest in my health and be proactive. This is Doctor Talks, real talk from real doctors on the issues that matter to you most. Well, hello, beautiful friends. Welcome back to the Take Back My Brain podcast, where we talk about natural ways to calm the chaos, to nourish your body, and to restore your God-given design for vibrant living. I'm really excited about today. This is gonna open your eyes as we dive into a very powerful tool for early detection and whole body wellness.

It's called thermography. So you've never heard about it, My guest today, Marie Campbell, is going to tell us what thermography is and why it is a good tool to have in your toolbox to make sure your body stays healthy all the time inside and out. So Marie, welcome to the podcast. Thank you. So I'm so curious. Can you tell our listeners what is thermography? Sure. So thermography is a tool to use in order to detect inflammation in the body. So it's using an infrared camera that is specifically calibrated for the human body.

A lot of the cameras that you find out there are more industrial type cameras that are used in construction and things like that. And as thermography has become more used for the human body, some of those companies have kind of started to calibrate them in order to be used that way. So the type that we use is specifically calibrated and manufactured for clinical use for the human body.

How Thermography Works 2:12

So what we do is it's sort of like taking your pictures. Your body is always sending out thermal signals especially when there is inflammation or some sort of dysfunction or dysregulation in the body. So an infrared camera like what we use detects that it's just detecting the signals that your body is giving off so it's not putting anything out there's no radiation it's non-invasive it is pain free touch free you know you're really just sitting there getting your pictures taken and then what you get is images that show an inflammatory map of your body kind of those hot spots where there's increased inflammation, increased blood flow, and maybe even lymphatic congestion.

That's a big one that we can detect too, which is really exciting because it gives us some practical ways to give you some things to start working on right away. Wow, that's amazing. How did you get into this? So like most natural journeys that I think people find themselves on, it started a completely different way of just kind of trying to figure out health for my kids, for my family. We had some just, you know, I'd say chronic things happening that we just weren't getting answers from your typical Western medicine models.

Found our way into natural, you know, more functional medicine. One thing led to another and I became, you know, closer to that age of 40 when they start talking about, you know, you should really do this or do that. And I thought, I wonder what else is out there. And so I just started doing some research on my own. I actually talked to a doctor, I had to have a physical for some training that my husband and I were doing. And the doctor said, you know, at that time, I really I want you to have a mammogram." And I said, well, I'm really curious about thermography.

Do you know anything about that? And he actually said, I do actually. And he said, I think it's really valid. And I think it's a matter of time before insurance covers it. And I was like, whoa, not expecting that. That kind of gave me just some encouragement to explore that. And so I did. So I started having it done for myself. It's probably been eight years ago now that I started getting it done myself. Started somewhere else and then realized the difference in the technology that we have at our office and switched over to our office a few more years into that.

And gosh, about three years now, as a patient came across a listing for the job and thought they didn't think I was trained or certified, you know, who am I to do that? And one thing led to another. And I would say God led me to this totally. Yeah. things together for me. And here I am. So I was trained and certified as a clinical thermographer and that's what I do. That's amazing. And your clinic is in, where's your clinic located? It's in Urbandale. It is Men's Thermography. It's at 86th and Douglas.

And we don't just offer a thermography. It was super exciting in this past year we also brought in ultrasound in-house and so for people who you know know they have dense breasts and know that mammograms can be kind of inhibited by those they are often not able to get to an ultrasound without having to do that mammogram first or still maybe just

From Personal Health Journey to Clinical Practice 5:30

not allowed to. In our clinic you can actually self-refer or be referred from your physician to come in and do breast ultrasound but our um Our sonographer can do any kind of ultrasound as well. So we do thermography, ultrasound, and then a couple of massage girls in there as well. That makes me so happy. That is just so great to women's health because How do I say this and not sound snarky? I'm just maybe able to sound snarky. It's fine. It's like we just don't get good care. Most of the time when we go to mainstream medical, one, we're not heard.

If you have those dense breasts, if you have a family history, there's all sorts of emotions that go along with all of that. And so I think having the option to be able just to self refer is the way it should be in the first place. Like if you're in charge of your own health care. So why can't you do that all the time? So I love the fact that you now have. not just the thermography, but the ultrasound in it as well. Can you just- Can I jump in quick before you go on there? You said the word option, and that is something that we feel very strongly about, that all of these tests are just options for us.

There's no perfect cookie cutter way for us to do breast health because we all have, like you said, different risk factors, different lifestyles. Really, a combination of a couple of those tests is what we recommend for a more comprehensive breast health screening. I personally wouldn't do just one of any of those because I'm getting so much information. And so we really recommend picking a couple of different things. And we can get into more of how they're different if you want to go that direction.

I would love to go into that. So if you could outline that. Yeah. So the easiest way to explain what thermography is, is to compare it to ultrasound and mammogram. Those tests that we're more familiar with are tests of anatomy. So the ultrasound MRI and mammogram. They're looking at the structure of the breast, the physical anatomy, looking for a small structure within that breast structure. With thermography, we're not looking at the structure of the body at all. This is a test of physiology. That means the function of the body.

What we're watching for with thermography is the potential for early disease process to be starting. We don't want to wait until something is large enough to show on a mammogram. Typical growth is about eight to 10 years before it's detectable on a mammogram. I don't want to wait that long and be that far behind it, right? But what happens in the very early stages, if the body allows cancer cells to start growing, what happens is a process called angiogenesis, and that just means increased blood flow.

And the body will feed that area with increased blood in order for those cancer cells to start doubling every 90 days is what happens.

Breast Imaging Options and Screening Basics 8:27

well talking early process where there's not even a structure big enough for any test to detect it really and within about two to three years of that growth in the very early stages that is when thermography is known to be able to start detecting some change that's happening we might see more inflammation we might see more vascular patterns forming that weren't there before. So thermography is all about consistency and stability is what you want to see with that. You want to see things be very similar because when there's change, when there's increased blood flow, typically that only happens if pathology is developing.

And so again, coming back to all of those tests, that's why it's so important not just to look for that early disease process, but also to be looking on something like an ultrasound to see are there cysts, are there papillomas, are there lipomas, are there other things there physically that really still should be monitored and still could cause problems, even if it's not always leading to the big C, right? Right. So we really recommend doing a couple of different types of tests like that. So it's not just detecting the big C type things, but you're saying you can detect other For sure.

Abnormalities in the body as well. Yes, yes. And so although breast imaging is probably 75% of what I do, we actually do full and half body as well as region of interest too. So like sometimes people will come from their dentist or their dentist will ask us to have further imaging for the neck and the head to see how far infection has gone. And so that's an interesting one. There's some autoimmune points on the body that we can see. there are things for pre-diabetes and insulin resistance that show on your hands, oddly enough.

Yeah, and so there's kind of a stroke risk assessment looking at the carotid arteries to see if there's increased heat there that could be showing some occlusion starting there. So thyroid function, I mean, organ function, just so many things, varicose veins, that's a huge one that can really be seen pretty obviously on thermography. So it's not just for breast health. That's amazing. I didn't even think of some of those things. So if we're talking about, because I'm thinking of a couple of clients with some varicose vein issues, how does it help with that?

Like, what is it showing you in regards to that? Yeah, so they're very easy to see. I'll say that. It's kind of fascinating to be able to see these lightning bolts down the leg. You know, it really defines exactly where they're at. So it's a way to monitor them for one thing. Thermography is a screening test. It's not a diagnostic test. And so it's not going to diagnose and say like there's a blood clot or there's this, you know, it's going to say there's some sort of dysregulation or dysfunction here.

Here are some things that you might want to follow up with in order to figure out what's going on. One instance with varicose veins that happens often, I would say, is people present to me sometimes with knee pain or ankle pain or just a throbbing pain in their calf. Varicose veins aren't always noticeable. And so sometimes when we see those images, it just clicks. They're like, oh my goodness, that is exactly where that pain has been. And they haven't been able to see that yet. And so it kind of, I guess, validates for people.

There is something going on there. You're not crazy. Yes. Yes, totally. And that in itself is really important because with people with autoimmune diseases like fibromyalgia and things that are chronic pain, Unfortunately, people do get told it's just in your head, you know. You know, you need to relax or you need to sleep more or whatever. And so this really can be a way of validating people's feelings and showing them that, you know, there really is some inflammation there that really needs to be dealt with.

That is so good. It's quite fascinating. Yeah. Yeah. Well, it just gives people hope, right? And then it can you know, send them in the direction they need to go. So, do you recommend thermography is sort of like a yearly thing or just for overall health monitoring? What do you recommend? Yeah, people use it in a lot of different ways. For breast health specifically, what you do with that is no matter what test you start with, if you have a half a full or a breast only, you do that first one and that kind of gives us what we call your thermal fingerprint.

And then the doctors ask you to come back again in 90 days to just do the breast images. That is what establishes the baseline because they don't know prior to your first one what things have looked like.

Thermography for Whole-Body Health 13:09

So looking again in 90 days gives them that window of time that if there is that process of angiogenesis happening, we might continue to see some change happening. When it doesn't, that establishes your baseline. So those first two are your baseline for women. And then they do recommend annual after that, especially for the breast. So at least doing thermography of the breast annually. I have a lot of patients though who love how this just kind of helps them monitor you know progress or yeah just maybe they're not somebody that you know goes to the doctor a lot or does then they just they like to use that as a tool to kind of see how things are progressing annually so it can be used in a lot of different ways.

I would say too it's also because it's so safe there's no radiation it's not putting anything out Yeah, that year too. You know, I tell patients all the time if you have suddenly six months for now from now feel a lump or have a concern because there's a new pain or come in, you know, you can come back in at any time and they can monitor and see, you know, our doctors are MDs who do our interpretation. We have about 40, over 40 now, MDs obviously more integrative, kind of holistic minded. We are board certified physicians in practice, and then they're also board certified thermography interpreters.

And so they're board certified in two different ways. And the report that you get, when you have this done is directly from the doctors. We assign you a doctor. We send out to a medical system and they assign a physician to read your report. And then we email that report right back to you. So it's the actual medical report like you would get for any other type of tests that would be run. And you get those images in there too. So you really, a lot of people, I think use it as a compass. That's what I suggest is use it as a compass.

Like look through it. If you are already fatigued and you're showing, you know, having weight gain and all these issues and you come back with something showing dysregulation in your thyroid. have a thyroid blood panel done, maybe even an ultrasound to look for nodules. You know, they're pretty specific. So you kind of have to, like you said earlier, be an advocate for yourself and go forward and do this. So, yeah. Wow. Do emotions or stress or trauma affect the imaging at all? Um, I wouldn't say specifically, but there are times when obviously emotions and stress are going to cause a lot of extra inflammation.

For sure, for sure. So when we look at the back, for instance, we carry so much of that stress and tension and we'll see just a lot of that happening. And usually people look at that and they go, oh yeah, I know the week I've had or, you know, what I've been going through. So yeah, it's, it's definitely whole body very holistic where everything is connected. So yeah, definitely there is, you know, and there are times to when, you know, recently I had someone who She was taking a B vitamin complex and she had been experiencing some kind of niacin flushes, I guess is what you would call it.

She was having some flushing and hot, you know, just feeling hot and flush. And we could not do her images that day. She was in the midst of one right then. So I said, I'm sorry. I saw the one that you had three months ago. It's gonna be a baseline. Like we need to reschedule that. Don't take that right before you come. So, you know, there are things like that that can't, have to be careful with. Yeah. Are there any precautions in regards to thermography? Just things like don't do something that's heat producing right before you come.

When you make an appointment, we send with the paperwork kind of some protocol Don't take a, you know, super hot shower right before you come. Don't wear deodorant or lotion or anything like that in the areas that will be imaged. You know, don't use your seat heater coming over, sit in the sauna that day. You know, you kind of want to just regulate your body. Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Are there any things that you commonly see that surprise a lot of people? Like things that we wouldn't even think about?

Actually, yes, I would say that that pre-diabetic marker that I mentioned. So the way it shows is on the hand images, the hand kind of looks like it's wearing a glove and it's usually like a orange, darker orange or even red sometimes, where green is kind of a middle of the road color. When you suddenly see these glove-like images and maybe red hot heat on the fingertips, that is definitely a sign that there is some metabolic dysfunction happening And oftentimes that is something that's really a wake up call for people to go, Oh, I knew they were concerned.

I'm pre-diabetic or, you know, I've my, they've been watching my numbers. And so that was, sometimes it's just kind of the extra little kick that somebody needs to go, okay, your body's crying out. Right. Here it is on the image. You can't deny that anymore. I think obscure numbers out there somewhere can be like, Oh, you can just ignore that. It's hard to ignore it when you see it, you know, and the physiological things often show before we notice symptoms.

Baseline Testing, Reports, and Precautions 18:30

So that's pretty fascinating to see some of that. Yeah. Yeah. That's really interesting. Does it show up in the feet too, or is it just just the hands? Typically more so the hands. Yeah. Interesting. Yeah. Okay. Do we know why? um my unscientific theory yes your unscientific theory is is that there's early nerve damage starting you know it's not full-on neuropathy which happens later and then the fingers get cold it goes to the other um but that's what i would say is there's there's something off with that blood flow um that nerve damage and so yeah it's just It is interesting how the body talks.

The body is always trying to tell us something. I just think we haven't even scratched the surface of finding ways to understand what it's trying to tell us. For instance, there's a point called the autoimmune point on the back of the neck. It's on the T1 and T2 vertebrae. Oftentimes we will see that get really cold. So you'll see all of this muscle tension around the neck and shoulders in the back. And it's not that you just don't have any right there in that spot. That spot is connected to your immune system.

And so chiropractors always love this. I have a lot of chiropractors who are patients and they validate this for me all the time because they're like, yes, oftentimes when someone's sick and they come in for their chiropractic adjustment, it's the T1 and T2 vertebrae that needs to be adjusted because it's connected to your immune system. And so that spot tends to get colder and colder, especially as you move into kind of full blown autoimmune things. But it can also, it can also show when you're dealing with things like seasonal allergies, food sensitivities, um, even just stress or hormonal imbalances and things like that.

So that's pretty eye opening too, for some people who are kind of like, I've been wondering. Yeah. And it encourages them to dig a little deeper and see what they can learn. Um, and I did recently actually just have a patient come back and say, you know, I went and did some testing. Sure enough. I actually do have autoimmune disease. And so that was something that spurred her to move, move on from that. Yeah. To be more proactive. No, that makes sense. Is there a particular. stage of life that you're like, okay, start doing thermography now, or is it good for like, my daughter's 18, should she start doing thermography?

Great question. So no, I would say I wouldn't have her start at 18. I have an 18 year old as well and I've practiced on her before and they're so full of hormones. There's just, it's a lot of heat. Funny. So what we recommend, now I can, I can absolutely image someone in their twenties. Under 18, we do have to have a doctor referral. We cannot do children. However, in the 20s, I've had girls who do have a lump or a concern and we do get that baseline started that early. We typically recommend by 30. That is usually as hormones start to regulate a little bit more by age 30. We recommend getting the baseline around then.

Then it can be tricky for some women because then you start having babies and you have to be three months post nursing or deliverable in order for hormones again, to kind of calm down. And so you do have to give that waiting period in there. So that's what we would say, but it's for men and women of all ages. I have, I would say 23 is probably my youngest patient. And I have a, at least one 80 year old, you know, that still likes to come in and be imaged, you know, because A lot of times, as you get older too, they don't recommend as many tests because they just kind of figure what are you going to do with it anyway, you know, but some people are still trying to be proactive and healthy into their 70s, 80s, you know.

Right. Well, my aunt just, she was diagnosed. She's 80 and she just got diagnosed with breast cancer. And so she's, you know, she goes, and I felt this little thing that was off for a while, but you know, they don't do mammograms on me anymore, you know, all those kinds of things. And so, you know, something like this for that older population as well could be give them a peace of mind or. help them to be more proactive. And so then they're not forced into, okay, you have to decide tomorrow what you're gonna do at age 80 with your breast, you know.

Right, yeah, for sure. Yeah. Can you just speak to just kind of women's health in general as to kind of what you see, how thermography kind of changes the landscape of that,

What Thermography Can Reveal 23:00

or I know it's more proactive for people, but could you dive just a little bit deeper into that? Yeah, so I would say a lot of the women that I see are around the same time of life as me going through those menopausal years we have just so many great conversations every day about oh it's you too oh my gosh I get it you know like I understand because I feel like in that time of life, there's just not a lot offered to us. It's going to just like suck it up buttercup, you're going to be fine, you know, or we're just pushed aside like you're so emotional and whatever.

There's a lot going on in the body during this time. And so I do feel like thermography is a wonderful, it's a great tool for people to use to kind of, again, monitor like therapies and things that they may be doing. Our nurse practitioner who owns our clinic, she works with women's health and hormones and as well as integrative oncology. She uses thermography as a tool to monitor therapies, to be able to say like, okay, we're working on some of these things. We're trying to bring that inflammation load down because inflammation is the precursor to pretty much every disease, right?

Systemic inflammation has to be dealt with at some point. And so she uses thermography as a way to kind of balance that and say, is this protocol working? We've been doing this for a year. Maybe we need to change something up. And so I would just say, when it comes to women's health, I'm not an expert, but I'm definitely in the throes of it. And I cannot recommend enough to find someone to work with. You do not have to struggle alone through these years of perimenopause and postmenopause. Um, finding a good functional medicine provider who can figure out what your body needs before you're completely depleted of everything.

Maybe for some people it's hormone replacement therapy. I am not going that route personally because supplements have done it for me. Like that's making a difference in my life. but I think it's really important to dig deeper when we get into this stage of life. The people that work in our 20s and 30s don't work anymore. Oh, exactly. And then we normalize things like, oh, this symptom or that symptom, not sleeping, I'm having hot flashes, my breasts are sore all the time. Everybody has it, so it's just normal.

But it's still a dysfunction, and it might be common, but it's not normal. And I feel like this is another tool that people could use to help them figure out what that dysfunction is and then move towards addressing that in a more systematic way. Absolutely. And, and definitely that's where like the thyroid comes into play too. That's connected with everything. And, you know, again, it's kind of, okay, I'm tired all the time. Is it just because I'm, you know, this age and I'm doing this, or is it because my thyroid isn't functioning well and it does need some support.

And so it is a great way to, you know, shine light on that. So if I were to come to you and my thyroid looks inflamed, what does that look like on the scan? So sometimes it's so the thyroid is this little butterfly shape in the base of your neck. It's a little bit different for everybody depending on how tall you are. So it's hard for me sometimes to determine where it is. That's why the doctors get to be the doctors and I don't have to be. Other times it really shows and I can see warmth over that thyroid.

That that could mean something like thyroid nodules that could mean, you know Just dysregulation that needs to be balanced with some some extra help Other times it's really cold. So there's times when it's cold and maybe it's not functioning well at all And so it can be one extreme or the other Always just looking for heat when it comes to thermography in general things that can show colder would be things that are more dense like dense breast tissue, upper arms, thighs, abdomen. It just looks colder.

So it's not inhibitive like it is on other tests with density and things like that. It just looks a certain way on thermography. Fluid-filled cysts, things like that are going to look colder. So there's a different, not necessarily concern, but there's a different way of looking at those things as well because they're so cold. Cold toes, cold fingers, circulatory, metabolic, something happening here.

Age, Hormones, and Women's Health 27:30

Right. So if your thyroid is showing up cold, does the pituitary hypothalamus show up as well? So we actually cannot image the brain at all. Oh, I didn't know that. There's three areas that really are not able to be done by thermography, and that's the brain and the prostate and the testes. I would add to that outer female private parts just because those areas are so hot. There's no close-ups or anything like that that are going to take place. For men with prostate and testes, there are better tests for them.

And again, it's regulating temperature. would be next impossible for that. When it comes to the brain, because of the skull and the blood brain barrier, we're not able to actually see that. So when we do the head and the neck images, that will show things like sinuses, inflammation through the nasal cavity or sinuses, dental inflammation, lymphatics all through the neck. There are signals for TMJ behind the ear. Really? Lymph and muscle stuff going down the neck. So just so many different signals that the doctors are able to determine what is going on.

I had no idea it was that comprehensive. Yeah. Yeah. So what do you say to a woman who says, I feel really healthy. My breasts feel good. Like I feel good from head to toe. Is there a reason to do this? Absolutely. Because you want to stay feeling good. Yeah. Why wait until you don't feel good to start being proactive is my thought. So we talk a lot about just breast education and your first appointment with me I spend over half the appointment just educating on breast health and lymphatic health.

The lymphatic system is so important when it comes to breast health. If you're not doing anything, even if you feel good right now and you're not intentionally doing anything for your lymphatic system, I would venture to say it's just a matter of time before you regret that. It will catch up. Your lymphatic system doesn't have a pump of its own. It depends on us to be moving it, to be doing pumping or thumping. Some people like to do things like this. There are so many great, easy, free techniques that you can do at home for five minutes a day.

There's no reason why everybody shouldn't be doing those because that's the waste management system of the body. That fluid flowing through our body looking for bacteria and viruses and toxins. It's important to know that 85% of breast cancers are environmentally connected. That means the toxins we're coming in contact with. Only a very small percentage of breast cancers are genetically connected. When you take the whole of all cancers in general, 5% are genetically connected. That means we have a lot of say in what's coming in and happening to our body.

So we have to be aware of what we're putting on and in our body. I think it's just kind of, I don't know, I guess like, I wouldn't do it. I wouldn't just wait and not do something proactive because you're going to pay for your health at some point. You're either going to pay and invest in it upfront so that you can maintain your health or you're going to pay someday because you're sick and now you have to deal with the consequences of that. I would rather pay upfront and invest in my health and be proactive, so.

Yeah, me too. Any specific things you want women to know about breast health? So you're talking about moving your lymph. Are there any other things? Breast massage is a big one I teach, too. We all have, I think, that's ingrained in us that, oh, I have to do this exam, right? What I see with my patients is that they come in, and when I ask, are you doing a monthly exam? And, oh, I try to. I always forget. Because they're only trying to do it once a month, right? Right. And they do it from a place of fear and worry and anxiety, looking for a problem.

You and I both know that is not good for our health and emotionally to be coming out our body and in a place of fear. So we like to turn that on its head and say, here's the thing. Your breasts need movement. They don't need to be stagnant all day and stuck in a bra. Bras weren't designed for our health. I just want to take mine off. I know. Um, but instead of doing that exam from that place of fear, let's just get into a habit of when you're in the shower and you're already soaping up, give your breasts some intentional palpation and some massage.

When you lay down in bed at night, get into a habit of just feeling and giving them some massage because they need movement and they need airflow and they need, you know, they need to breathe a little bit. you are going to become so familiar with your own breast tissue, which is different from every other person in the world, that you're going to notice if something changes. You don't have to go looking for it. If you know, oh yeah, it's always lumpy and bumpy right here. Oh yeah, it kind of feels like there's a rope under the surface.

Breast Health, Lymphatic Flow, and Prevention 32:30

That's probably fibrous tissue, right? No, it's always like that. You're going to notice if something changes and suddenly it's bigger or there's something different there. That's what I really recommend to people. Do something proactive, that breast massage, lymphatic techniques. I could list a million things you could do from dry brushing to sauna. It's just a matter of picking the one that works for you. Some people own a sauna and they'll sit in it every day. Great. I don't, but I have a dry brush and I have a lymphatic vibration plate that I can sit on five minutes a day.

Great. Do the thing that works for you, but do something. Right. I remember I was in nutritional therapy school. We had a girl, she was from Austria. And she was, we were talking about lymph and stuff one day in class and she stood up and she took off her bra in class. It was all girls, it was fine. But she's like, she's bouncing them up and down. And she's like, you Americans don't fluff the girls every day. And she like literally showed us how they fluff the girls over in Europe. She's like, you have to fluff them every day.

And so I do in the shower, Maria. That's awesome. Yes, because she's like, you have to know how your own, like you're saying your own breast tissue feels and they have to move and you got to get out of these bras. And yeah, we have several books in our office for when you're waiting for your appointment that are all about breast health. One of them is called Dressed to Kill. It is a study, a research study that was done and put into a book. It's just literally the study that talks about the connection between statistically countries who do not have a cultural norm of wearing a bra and the difference in their breast cancer rates compared to ours.

Like I know there's food things that are different. I'm not saying it's exactly cause, but it's interesting when you start looking at it, you know, like what are we doing? And why, you know, and there's also a really interesting study. I like to post some of this stuff on our social media. There was one that they did like a 10 year, 10 or 15 year study about breast sagginess. And they found that women who did not wear bras had perkier breasts by a memorable amount because they're actually using their pectoral muscles.

Oh, that makes sense. They're just stagnant in a bra all day. You don't need to. They're just, that's being supported for you. And so if you want to have perkier breasts, ditch the bra. So then we have to go with cultural norms and I'm not wearing a t-shirt without a bra kind of thing. There are some great options. There are some great fitted tanks that have a little padding. I love those. It doesn't even feel like you have a bra on, but nobody can tell because you're not walking around showing it off.

There's a way to be modest and also support your body. What do you know about bra toxicity? So just the material that it's right next to us, it's really hard to find. a bra that's not toxic that actually fits and especially for us bigger busted women yeah it is that is the age-old question that i get asked all the time i'm constantly asking my patients even like tell me if you find a good 100 organic cotton one because there's There is a corner on the market. I tell you, if you wanted to create this last year, I've been on the, uh, the hunt for one and I found some for my daughter, but she's a bee.

And so it's really easy to find. And she's, we've got her some good organic cotton bras, which is amazing. I can't find one to save my life. Yeah I mean and it's I think we have to keep it in perspective too like at the end of the day we can do everything right and still end up with a problem right and so if it's you know I kind of think of that in my own health journey in general like the things that I do every single day yeah I want to make sure that I'm drinking really clean coffee right because I'm drinking it every day I don't want it to be a cup of mold And so I'm willing to spend more money on that.

You know, bras, yes, if you're wearing it every day, it's something worth investing in to find something. But also know that if you're doing all these other things, maybe that's just something that you have to let go for now, too, right? And pick your battles, because we can't win them all. We definitely cannot win them all. And that's good. So is there any last thing that you would love women to know about their health or anything you want to encourage them with? I would just say, don't wait till there's a problem to look into your health.

Again, I can't say enough, like if you feel good and you're healthy, you want to maintain that because the older we get, every year goes by, our body breaks down a little bit more, right? We're losing muscle, we're losing collagen, we're losing all these things as our body goes into this different season. And so that's honestly my biggest advice is be proactive, do something to maintain it. Don't wait until there's a problem to start paying attention to what your body needs. That is so, so good.

Well, Maria, thank you so much for being here. I appreciate you. It was very eye-opening. I hope everyone listening feels more empowered that you can take your health into your own hands. And that thermography, as we've learned today, I learned a lot of great things today, is so much more than what I thought it was. And I actually can't wait to do it for myself. So thank you for being here. We appreciate you very much. Awesome. Thanks for having me. I appreciate it. Awesome. And thank you everyone for listening.

Make sure you like, subscribe and share. And if you would leave a review for me, that would be the best thing that you could absolutely do. And until next time, stay curious, stay rooted in truth. God bless each of you. Have a great day. Real Talks from real doctors on the issues that matter to you most.