Dr. Schaffner’s Unique Approach to Treating Mold-Related Illness

Introduction and Welcome 0:00

Hey, hello. Welcome to another episode of Mycotoxins in chronic illness. Today is just, kind of a pleasure and exciting moment here. We're going to get a chance to, meet, Doctor Christine Schaffner, of a physician who has really done a lot to, help get the message out to people, what it means to heal and just using a lot of different modalities. I think that's one thing that I really appreciate is doctors, like Doctor Schaffner, who realized that this is not a one size fit, fix, all kind of problems that we're dealing with when we're dealing with chronic illness.

It's about the individual. And from her work, you'll see that she really understands that. And what we're going to hear today is, you know, how she looks at the patients, at you and what we can do to try to help give you some new tools. So welcome, Christine. Pleasure. Well, thank you so much for having me. This is really been a fun collaboration. So thank you for, Yes. So really, so, I mean, you know, one of the things that, as someone who's been watching, I've been interested in, in, in, just in your, you know, your way of laying out the, environment, the energetic, you know, just all those issues, how we've them together.

Because that's always been a big, big part of this. Yeah, absolutely. And, you know, we see very similar patients and those who are listening right now. They're complex right? There are many things going on. And, you know, one of the things that I see people struggle with is there's so much information how to prioritize and where we have to, you know, take all this information and really create a, plan that's going to really target what somebody needs at the right time with the right support and, you know, really move them forward.

And, you know, my patients teach me every day. And, you know, I've learned a lot. I've only been practicing 11 years. But I feel like I've, you know, learned a tremendous amount in that, in that time. And, you know, we're all evolving. I mean, even 11 years ago. Right. You know what? We know today versus, well, you know, I, I recall, you know, Doctor Shoemaker had just came out with his book, survival mode when I had started practice. And so that whole framework you know, was coming out and then, you know, also the other, you know, the I think I've seen in the 11 years, too, Eric, is that, I'm so grateful that we're able to talk, online and share these this information in this kind of format that we're doing together.

Because there was just so much, you know, it was so hard to find the answers, you know, whether online or within communities. It was really kind of suppressed and quiet. And so I feel like in some ways, you know, I know it's an interesting time right now, but there are a lot of information around chronic illness is so much more accessible. But, you know, people are completely overwhelmed because, you know, there's so much to navigate in the chronic illness world. So, you know, we were talking about how to, you know, share my, framework today and how I approach a patient.

And, you know, it's evolving, but what I, you know, what I look like, look at today is we've we've called this ego. Everyone likes acronyms. And it's just a way to explain, you know, what my approach is. And so the first D stands for environment and terrain support, which I can go over. The other one it stands for energy system support. I'm really into the bioenergetics piece. I think that's the future of medicine. I think the more that we can enter, twine, the bioenergetics and the acknowledgment that we have, you know, an electrical system, a bio field, and that we can have tools that integrate, that helps people, I think, recover more quickly so we can chat about that.

And then the, you know, I've done a lot of training in biological medicine, and there's this idea of interference fields and biological medicine. So the C stands for, clearing the block. So most of my patients will have some, you know, interference sphere that just really prevents their body from self-regulating and, healing. So we can talk about that.

Christine Schaffner's Whole-Body Framework 4:07

And then the natural path of me, talks about optimizing flow and drainage, which I think, again, a lot of people understand now. But, before these protocols would be, very, sometimes create a lot of adverse reactions or, unnecessary or too strong a person reactions because the organs of elimination or even the Olympic system, wasn't properly, supported. So that's, you know, when I see a patient, I'm holding all of that in my head. And when I really come up with a tangible protocol, so happy to walk through all of that.

We had. No, no, I that's I just I love the way you laid it out because, you know, especially the optimizing the, the flow and drainage is something from those of us who, you know. Actually, you know, working with with that with Wayne Anderson, Doctor Anderson, who was treating Lyme, you know, since the early 90s, and Joe Prescott and, you know, I started in 2000 and with Lyme and that was where we, you know, that's when the the error of the works. And it took us a few years to realize that. No, no, no, no, no, we were people weren't getting better.

I mean, there was a handful that could push through those services, but really we were just pushing people into the wall because we weren't paying enough attention to the drainage and the interference fields and all these other things that, like you said, we keep learning and we learn. So many of these are old, but in the rush to heal and the rush to do modern medicine, which is here, let me give you the magic piece that's going to fix you. Yeah, yeah, we forgot about. But chronic illness has really I mean, that's why I'm so excited, has really taught me to have to go back to all those areas because that's, that's where that's where the that's why it's chronic.

It's the single if the single if the single magic, you know, IRB or drug is going to fix you. That's a very small percentage of people who are chronically ill. You know, it's usually it's a it takes it's a dance of a lot of things. So going back to so when, when just in your framework of, you know, when you're seeing the patient, that's I always amazes me about how different practitioners work. You know what what what's a real clue that each one of these is, is, needs a lot of attention for you.

Yeah. And I, I love your point to about that because I think, you know, I always say to my patients, too, if it was one thing that was wrong, this would be way easier to treat than you would be better by now. But in the office, like I so I, you know, I believe, both of us are, you know, we're still shifting this paradigm of thought. And, you know, when I look at this, you know, framework, you know, really, it's, you know, happening not linearly, but I feel like, you know, dynamically, you know, all at once, but often, you know, I, you know, when a new patient comes in, really, what is on the top of my mind is this whole, like, the idea of interference fields, because I think that still often under, under looked and so interference fields, you know, that might be a new term.

It's this idea, again in German biological medicine that they're called an interference fields or focal infections. So, and what they can be are, these areas that can be these hidden reservoirs, often of infection or, stagnation in the body and that no matter what you do, it's almost like you're up against a wall or I'll say there's a boulder in the middle of the, you know, the way that we have to get out of the way so that your body can actually do what it's trying to do. And so the most common ones, I would say, Eric, are still the mouth.

Right? I think there's a lot going on in the mind, you know, and it's all, you know, timing, you know, when we look at the mouth. But it can be a huge piece, especially with our Lyme and co-infection patients. So, you know, when I look at the mouth, I still, you know, really screen for amalgam fillings. Most people understand that amalgams, you know, don't have a place in the body. But for some people there's still you know, there and right for we you know, we start there. An amalgam is for people that this is.

No, they're an amalgam of not all and one of the primary metals in, Mercury and the filling is mercury, which is a very, known neurotoxin. And, you know, we can inhale that mercury vapor over time that can get into, you know, cranial nerves that can affect our microbiome and our mouth and our gut. And so, we can't really even detox from heavy metals when we still have amalgams. I mean, at least for my patients, I see that that can be, you know, very, essentially if we're trying to key light or even move metal when you still had metal in the mouth, you can aggravate someone.

So we screen for amalgams. I look at root canals. Root canals are essentially dead teeth there. You know, the nerve is taken out and then filled with non biocompatible material. And, you know, those, root canal teeth can be a reservoir for infection. And then we look at the wisdom teeth. So the wisdom teeth are really big. I feel like in our living co-infection patients especially because, what happens again, if this is a new term, the wisdom tooth is removed. And for some people it's like the chicken or the egg white doesn't heal.

But, you know, it becomes necrotic dead tissue. And often that can be a reservoir for viruses, parasites, Bartonella, other bacterial infections. And we look at the mouth and the connection with the acupuncture meridian system. So each tooth sits on a meridian. But, I also think just proximity. So when you think about where the wisdom tooth is and you think about, you know, what's, happening there that can drain into the one that's, it can affect the vagus nerve. So I think there can be, you know, vagus nerve infection or toxicity that's, you know, origins or in the mouth and so, so I often see if a patient has had like recurrent, you know, intestinal issues or dysbiosis or vagal nervous shows or just not and not me, I, I often think there's especially something potentially in the wisdom tooth cavitation area.

And then another big focal infection I think in our patients is the tonsil area. So the tonsil, you know, it's not just the palatine tonsils, but the whole what I hear is rain, which is that ring of lymphatic tissue, that has just, so much immune activity, especially for our patients. I would say, like nine, the ten of my patients, there's something happening there that is eating their immune system. And so for people who are new to this, it's, you know, tissue that's at the base of the brain, so it can affect, lymphatic drainage.

So the drainage of the brain at night, and then it's at the top of the gut associated lymphatic tissue. Right. So, so the top of the gut. So it's almost like the crux of the gut brain, you know that's happening right there. Yeah. And it can affect you know, if that issue's a reservoir, it can be just this ongoing, spot where there can be, no inflammation and, you know, got inflammation.

Interference Fields in the Mouth and Tonsils 10:48

So there's also depending on, you know, the patient, you know, especially if someone has pans or pandas, we're really looking there, but know all sorts of different degrees. So, you know, those are probably like the mouth and the tonsils, I would say, or the like the big focal infection areas. And then I do normal therapy in the office. And so we also look at scars and scars, can be very subtle but very profound and how they affect the body. And again, when we think about optimizing flow, I'm a big fan of the lymphatic system.

And if you take away one thing from my talk, address your lymphatic system and so scars I find, you know, they can be, you know, from injuries or traumatic events or surgeries and scar tissue can, you know, be, a reservoir of it can hold out and not only, you know, it has a physical effect, but I can also see, trauma can be stored in, scars. I've seen that all the time on my table. When people go through a normal therapy injection, sometimes they'll have a thought, emotion, you know, a visceral experience of letting go, releasing that stuck energy in the body.

Can really, again, optimize, you know, flow and drainage. And then also just, you know, the fashion, the lymphatics and, in that can just open up more, flow in that area. And so C-section scars, appendectomy scars, removal scars, all of these things can be subtle but really profound. I, you know, I was, I had one, anecdote always sticks in my head. I have a patient who. I did a melanoma scar on her back, you know, over her shoulder blade, and after palpitations, went away, you know, so it's just, you know, we don't know how these, you know, facial unwind, things can really affect, you know, distant tissues or organs.

So that's a lot of fun. Yeah. No, I, I think that this is something that is so frustrating because, I mean, the frustration is that we see how profound the, the scars that the held, the places in the body where tension and there's decreased flow affects the systems. But it's it's very difficult to get, conventional medicine to look at this because it's individual, you know, you can release, you know, one person's appendectomy scar and it does nothing, and you do another person's and it opens up the blood flow and the lymph drainage and to their lower extremities and everything works again.

You know, it's. Yeah. That that that's what what I, what people have to understand is that and when you when that, when you're healthy it would be good to do. But when you're ill you really have to be willing to do different therapies, even though they're all not going to work as dramatically for you be because they are in play. You know, I think that is the thing that you're you know what? You're exactly what you describe is this, the interactions between the lymph and the nervous system and just the fascia and the flow, it these things that are subtle, we're able to go through life banging and falling down and having all kinds of horrible things happen to us, and we and we're fine.

And then suddenly we're not, and we become very sensitive to everything all of a sudden, and and I, I'm not explaining that well, but it's something it's always because as coming as a conventional doctor, you know, I came from, like, if it didn't kill you, there was nothing wrong with you, right? Okay. I mean, that's what people have to understand. Why what you're talking about to to patient to people who are having been too involved in medicine sounds very reasonable. That energy flow will affect your body.

You know, fascia tightness in the tissues is going to affect your body. But when you go to your regular doctor, if it hasn't hurt you in a way that's painfully obvious, it didn't. It's not a big deal. And and that's what's frustrating when people go back, when they listen to a talk like this and they go to, most physicians and they tell them about, well, you know, they have a scar or they have a root canal which has never healed, you know, that good thing. You know, I had the root canal five years ago, but, you know, I can still feel it.

Well, right. Yeah. It's not heal. Yeah. Great. You know, and the dentist gets the x rays and won't do anything anyway. I'm just just I just want to reinforce what you're saying is crucial to health. If you don't deal with with these things that Doctor Schaffner is talking about, and you're sensitive is a good chance. The fancy, medicines that we or herbs that people throw at you are going to just bounce off because your system is locked down. Yeah. Yeah. No. Absolutely. And I, you know, I I was going through my email the other day and there was an email from, a gentleman drainage kind of company and they said, all disease starts in the connective tissue.

And, you know, as we're talking, you know, and I'm happy to share more about what that means. But also, you know, I think what happens to we'll have a person in the office and they'll say like, you know, I don't know what happen all of a sudden, and I'm sick. And then, you know, it's this idea, this kind of train story. It's like it could have been a C-section birth and, you know, vaccines, then maybe traumatic event or living in the home and then think, you know, all of a sudden I'm sick. It's like, no, no, no, no.

It's like, this is a story, you know, that's the past. And we get you better. We have to, you know, stabilize your system, but address those factors that kind of make you who you are so that you can be more resilient and, well, you know, and we have to look at these root causes that I think, because of the modern paradigm. Right. We think, something happens to treat it better, but it's like we're way more dynamic than that. Yes. And you're and your, your, system for your way of organizing, of thinking about this is just a beautiful, way to to remind us that that, you know, this isn't I always I've said this too many times on these episodes.

This is not about a bullet, right? Yeah. Right. Right, right. We're really good at that. Yeah, I know our job would be waiting for this. All worked in that way, but it's not. Yeah, yeah, that's the same way with the with this whole thing we talk about most is that, you know, why it's so important for people to think what you, the way you're describing, even when they've had a call about a mold exposure. Because if it was just a mold exposure, you let leave the mold exposure and you get better, right?

And if you're not getting better, it is just stressing a system that has been stacked for a long time. So I, I'm having fun listening to you, so I'm going to shut up. I have a tendency to keep going here. So so so this is I mean, so you're to tell us a little about the connective tissue because fascia it was I said was one of the first things that that unfolded for me as, as, you know, but I want to hear your stories about now. Yeah, yeah, yeah, totally. So I this is an area that I love. I'm learning about and going on more deeply.

And I think this is the area where all of these things we're talking about really, is the area of, you know, treatment and the area these things settle. And so when we're talking about fascia, connective tissue, the extracellular matrix, the lymphatics, they're they're all interconnected. When we study medicine, we study anatomy and think of like body compartments. But the we know the truth of the matter is it's all interconnected. And I love, the work of Doctor James Ashman. And he wrote a book called Energy Medicine and he called The Famous Matrix.

So his idea is really that we're this, you know, highly interconnected work network from the nucleus of our cell. You know, the our DNA is communicating to the microtubule, and that's crossing over integrins in the cell membrane. That's, you know, going into the connective tissue to the collagen, to the, you know, the skin. So you can actually change your epigenetics by manual therapies because we're all interconnected. And then my mind goes, it's like, okay, what's outside of there? You know, the bio field, you know, so there's, you know, this highly connected network, you know, that we can address.

And so when, you know, when we go back to, you know, the fascia, connective tissue, extracellular matrix, and the extracellular matrix, again, it's a big area of discussion in biological medicine in natural Catholic medicine. So it's this space between the cells. Right. So it's this area that is bathed really in pre lymphatic fluid. And it's an area that, you know, we're only as healthy as our extracellular matrix is able to, bring nutrients to our cells and remove waste, you know really simplistically and you know, the, you know, the things that are in the, the space or, you know, collagen, right?

The most abundant protein in the body. So collagen, we have things like fibroblasts and hyaluronic acid and Gans or like or, you know, glycans I can remember, but I'm always that kind of stuff. Right. And, when we think about, you know, what's happening there, you know, lining co-infections, right? They love, you know, that's what they love. Yeah. And, heavy metals, because of their charge, can bind to protease glycans. And, you know, creating, you know, disruption breakdown. I'm going to say leave.

It's an analog devices that can be incorporated. And, you know, it's one of the primary amino acids in collagen, so it can break that down. So, you know, the things that we talk about the most, you know, in the office, glyphosate, heavy metals, Lyme and co-infections, when you are, affected by mold or mycotoxins, your lymphatic system also becomes more congested because of the burden on other organs to eliminate. And so that space can be, overwhelmed as well. And then the model, you know, you know, this work way better than I do.

Doctor Navios work with the cell. Dangerous, right? It's really this extra. What's happening in the extracellular matrix is signaling cells that are stressed. Right. And so, I, you know, again, a lot going on here, but we can think about it simplistically too. So if we can get that space to drain and to be, you know, healthy and communicate well for the cells

Scars, Fascia, and Connective Tissue Blockages 21:08

to be able to communicate, effectively, and we can target therapies that, you know, address the things that I just shared in that space. You know, that's a really big area of focus and treatment. And so, you know, really, again, starts with the lymphatic system because that space drains, through lymphatic capillaries that essentially collect the lymph and bring it back to the heart. In the lymphatic system for me is this, you know, intersection between like, toxins. Pathogens, also trauma because of, something down this rabbit hole.

But structured water in this space can hold. Yes. In consciousness. And so, so you can see when you're, you know, moving lymph at first or people sometimes they can get these healing reactions if they're not supported, with binders and all of that. But they can also have these, you know, thoughts, emotions, memories, leave their, you know, system. Because I think of removing that energy, you know, you know, moving that maybe emotional muscle, that's been potentially stuck or holding there. So my approach is really always looking at that, those kind of three buckets together, because I think they're all interrelated in the space of the extracellular matrix, the living matrix, the college and connective tissue foundation, all different words for different parts of it.

It's really, you know, I think a really big area of focus to, recover somebody who has a chronic illness. Yes, yes. The and what was so what do you have a few favorite. You know, I mean, you know, you talked about the neural therapy as kind of a basis. You know, you looks like you're you're were you like think like to start. But as far as helping people with the drainage process, you know, what what what are some of your favorite modalities? Yeah, absolutely. So I, I love a lot of different things, you know, so I, I could imagine being you're.

Yeah, I know, and again, with, you know, this is the fun part of our world, right? We have so many tools. Right. And we're not just, you know, we have four drugs that, you know, right. Everybody wants to provide. But, you know, I do think if you're listening out there and struggling, I do think to get your life moving, I do think working with a skilled lymphatic drainage therapist in the beginning, you know, can be really helpful. Right. Just so much stuck energy and stagnation, a system can really have that support.

So looking for a massage therapist that's been trained in lymphatic drainage and there's different, trainings, you know, there's some fodder. And then there's also deeper, static work. And then, I have a system in my office that my friend, introduced me to this woman, in New Zealand created it. And her name is Desiree de sponge, and she's someone's allergist. And, New Zealand, they have that there. And she created this system, that is called the flow press. And it's compression, you know, so again, the lymphatic system needs, movement to move because it doesn't matter.

Potentially have a pumping system like the circulatory system. So we, you know, movement, really helps, the lymph move. So and this is compression with infrared and it's like pump, but they call it like nano vibratory. You know, technology. So a little bit, you know more of that happening. Increase cellular voltage with the frequency. Oh I like that. So it's nice when people put things together, you know, because everybody wants to do their thing and it's the beauty. Yes. That's great, I like that.

It's really fun because, I mean, you know, I hope like every office that, that treats these illnesses have 1 or 2 visits. It's nice because they're compression against the abdomen. There can be a lot of lymph stagnation. Yeah. These patients and it's, you know, an interconnected system. So if you have stagnation in one area for the rest of it to drain. So, you know, within the abdomen and then the infrared helps with heating. Right. Which can be detoxifying. But infrared also helps with exclusion zone water.

And so exclusion of water, I think, Doctor Pollock, right, is on the summit. And so he or we have a conversation around exclusion, but actually we had some ones peripherally, but no, no, I, I, I next time I actually have a conversation with with with Doctor Pollock coming up, I can. Yeah. Yes. He's amazing. Yeah. He's just an amazing man. Yeah. He's been a friend and a pioneer in this work. And, if this is a new topic for people, it's this fourth phase of water. So this, stage of water that has all these properties in them, in the body and one that I think is essential to health is that it helps with movement and flow.

So the more exclusion zone water that we have, it helps with storing energy for sure. And it helps, you know, detoxify the cells, but it helps also create blood flow. Lymphatic flow. So that's I think of why the flow present is really nice. So lymphatic support can be finding a manual therapist during the flow press. And then also, you know, just movement. Some of our patients have those rebounders that can be very helpful. Dry skin brushing. And then I love, you know, just different either topical, products or different herbal products and then also, different drainage remedies.

So drainage from these are these complex homeopathic that kind of target the extracellular matrix or different systems in the body like picanha or fisica or under. So finding a practitioner who, you know, kind of, you know, just combine those to help support you. Yeah. And then lymphatic herbs, I mean, there's lots of, like red root and cleavers and calendula nettles, popular ones. And then our friend Doctor Ruggiero helped us create, a product over the years that has a probiotic that produces macrophage activating factor in that combined with vitamin D3 and our like acid topically really moved the lymph in moves lymph.

So we had people put it on their neck and areas. And when you have one that examination this is where the tonsil interference feel can come into play a lot of the time. So, you know, if you have potentially tonsil interference field and stuff, lymph, you know, really doing also I'll do gargoyles or propolis spray. I love a couple of propolis sprays that can be really, you know, helpful. So, those are lymphatic remedies and lymphatic ideas to help with the, and I just come back to me because the topical I love because one of the things I run into is a lot of the really sick people, when you start to move the lymph, they don't do well.

So, because it's moving, you know, this is stuff you stored away and we want to get rid of it. But anyways, so the topicals I like because there's sometimes a little, you know, a little gentler and helps get flow going. So that's really interesting. You're finding really good results with that because. So this is like kind of son of GC mask. Yeah. Yeah. It's it's kind of like a different way to do GC math because it's problematic because making the peptide rather than right getting the peptide, you know, and then so that yeah, topicals are great men with you.

Like, some of the very sensitive patients, they need their lymph moving the most, but they're like the most, you know, once, you know. Yeah. The the exit still stuck. Yeah. Exactly. And so, you know, even, you know, I, I'm sure you've known this too. It's like listening to in patients and, also just don't under an estimate dose like a their dose can be like sometimes I started people on 1 or 2 drops of things and, you know, you still absolutely have patients. And sometimes to when, you know, the lymph is really blocked, and people feel worse.

I also pair that with, either colon hydrotherapy or, you know, coffee enemas at home. You know, I feel like not only the lymphatic system gets really stuck in these patients, but also the, the biliary system. Right. The bile. Yes. I feel like a broken record in my office. Like, as well, for moving this or bile flowing like that, you know, of course, all the other things too. But I think those are big areas of focus. And we know with mold rate and mycotoxins that can really be, you know, that can congested bile and, you know, bile for people who are new to this is, you know, our liver cells produce bile.

Bile gets stored if you have a gallbladder, get stored in the gallbladder. If you don't have a gallbladder, it's still like the my cadaver in school, didn't have a gallbladder, and, one of the bile ducts was dilated, and so it's like the body of my. You smell the little sac within the liver, you know? So I was like, you know, and and if you don't have a gallbladder, this is even more important because you know why that your gallbladder removed is because there was, you know, a lot of stuff because.

Yeah, you're bile stagnant or infected. Yeah. And, you know, and bile is, you know, obviously really good for digestion, but it's an out of elimination. Right. So we need bile movement for Michael Jackson nomination. Just normal metabolic waste hormones. And and then as you I think we're starting to say is that, you know, if the bile stagnant that can be a breeding ground for parasitic infections, you know, viruses. And so it's this vicious cycle. So getting the bio flowing and then eliminating that through the colon and having binders on board is a really other, big part, I think, of foundational, to our, you know, to, help move somebody forward with whatever, other immune therapies that we're going to be doing.

So I that's, I think that that is yeah. Beautifully said. And I mean, just because that, that, that basic binders with bile, I mean, if you don't have them. Yeah. You usually going to keep banging into the walls. Are you going to have those people who say, I'm trying to detox, you know, and I keep getting sicker. And the one of those three systems are usually all of them are probably not working. Well, you know, that that is, and I, I just hope we allocated what was the name of the, it's flow press, so.

Yeah. So. Yeah, I'll. I'll introduce you. Kelly. Yeah, yeah. No, but I think for me, because that, that, And I'm just, I just want to say that I'm pressed because it's so hard. You know, there's lots of companies who sell, you know, you know, light devices, you know, and they all each one of these devices helps increase energy in the cell, which is good. Sometimes you got to go very gently because you put too much in. It's not good, but it's so nice when they willing to combine because then we can again, we can use lower thresholds, lower amounts of energy in each system, and it gives your body a chance to pick what it can hear.

Yeah. You know, I like that I like that I think that's cool. I'm really impressed that that's a really cool thing. Yeah. Yeah. Well we all have to come visit. Yeah I will talk about that. Yes. Because it sounds like you put together a way of, kind of having chance for people to get multiple of these, of these treatments, you know, all at once, which is really, really nice. Okay. So, so that that's kind of sort of like a, an overview, I think, of the, beginning to deal with the block systems in the body.

Yeah. So we just talked about, you know, blocks and even starting to talk about, you know, the flow piece. So I think we have the covered in them. I guess the even the two E's one is environment and terrain support. So, you know, a natural path and I, I feel that, you know, of course, I see the role of all these stealth pathogens and chronic infections.

Lymphatic Drainage and Bile Flow Support 32:18

And, you know, what I always sit with is like, why are some people sick and why are other people's, people not sick? Right. And you can see that in, you know, the family system. Oh, yeah. You got all the time, right? Right. A partner might not be it might even, you know, create a lot of discord because they can't even, you know, comprehend that someone could be doing so much more poorly in an environment than they are because they don't have that, you know, experience. So, you know, I'm, I'm, you know, so the more I learn about, you know, all of this, you know, I, you know, in we probably you know, I don't know if you agree, but you know, there's a reality to working with this patient population that we're exposed all the time to a lot of the things that they're, you know, challenge with.

And so and some people don't. So I've just had this, awareness that like, okay, why are some people healthy other people's, not. And so it comes back to this idea of the terrain. And that, again, is a term that we talk about a lot in naturopathic and biological medicine. And I also reflect when I get somebody better. It's not like getting rid of every spanking their body that's not, you know, not just every mycotoxins. So how do we create resilience. So whatever comes their way they can more quickly adapt and recover and not be taken out of life. Right.

And so when we think about the train, we not only think about the microbiomes in our body, but we also think about, you know, the environment. And I think a big part of why people are so sick today is this, you know, this onslaught from, you know, conception that they're exposed to toxicants, you know, the, you know, the. Oh, God. Yeah. Prenatal onwards. Yes. So, you know, so preconception. Yeah. So it's like, you know, we're pretty we're doing as humans, we're doing pretty well, all things considered.

Like we need to change the course, and the way things are going. And so, so I think, you know, a big part of this is looking at environmental factors. So, you know, we look at heavy metals, of course, in the big heavy metals, I, you know, focus on our aluminum, leaded mercury, of course, cadmium, arsenic. I'm seeing more radioactive people. So typically, you know, the sulfide will often in the metals have certain strategies. And then aluminum has certain strategies. So you get your bases covered.

You know, and you can do that with natural products and for sometimes people need deletion. And you know, that's a very individual, right timing and treatment strategy. And then, you know, I do think the herbicides, the pesticides, the persistent organic pollutants, the plastics, the phthalates, you know, those are also really they have really long half lives. And we're yeah, throwing them in our fat. And so, so I you know, a big part of recovering your immune system is recovering, or rather, trying to get your bucket less, you know, full of these toxicants because these can affect you know, they can disrupt our endocrine system, our immune system. They can weaken us. Right.

In that kind of bridges, terrain is more right, you know, because of the environmental issue. And I, I think I mean, I don't know if this is your experience, but I think more it's just become so much more problematic because of environmental factors, too. Right? You know, how we built our homes, you know, the. Oh, yeah, increase of EMF. And I do I do think that is something that creates more virulence in the mold, that we are exposed to. So, I'm sure there's a lot of people talking about, you know, how to recover your home or, reduce your exposure, you know, to, to these things and especially if you are trying to recover from chronic illness, that's mold driven that you have to get out of your moldy home, or at least really dry.

Yeah, yeah, yeah, I think that that that is just the basic tenet is, you know, the, the levels that you can tolerate when you're healthy, often drop, you know, you have to you, you become sensitized. You know, you really have to respect that, that you're just going to, you know, it's a little bit like wheat, you know, and like people who don't have, like, terrible, you know, gluten issues but are just are sensitive to various components of the wheat. You know, if they stay off of it for six months, they can go back, you know, and cheat once a week and do okay.

But if they're really sensitive, that never happens. You can't go back. And the same thing with, with with mold, I mean, we we see the few people. But but I agree that things have to have changed because, mycotoxins are ubiquitous. They've always been with us. Right. You know, and all of a sudden we're seeing people who are, you know, just more like many more, you know, I mean, we always saw the, the, you know, like the old Candida, the people with Candida, but this is going back. I'm dating myself, but in the, you know, in the 70s and 80s, Candida was the thing everybody and it was and we'd see the people who had candidate allergy and sensitivity, but then there would be the people who, like, you know, any they couldn't tolerate anything.

And, you know, any mold exposure and those were probably the mycotoxins people. We just didn't recognize them back then. You know, we thought it was all just the candidate, not the realize it. It was really just toxic byproducts. In some people. That was the issue, not just the immune response to the to the bug. The bug. So it's. Yeah. And our, our world has changed. Yeah. I mean, you know, I, we yeah. Autoimmune diseases where, you know, we could, we could in the 80s we could recognize most autoimmune diseases that we can recognize today.

And we just did not see them. Yeah. You know, it is nuts. It is nuts. I mean, you know, it just nobody I don't think I don't think anybody's really stepped back and made a big enough noise that, you know what we're doing. I, I, I'm sorry. I'm go on and on. This is just like, just just watching what we've done to America. I mean, you know, we I wanted to I've been reading lately about, alcoholic liver, not nonalcoholic fatty liver disease, where, like, it's like, what, 40 to 60? I mean, it's just I can't I think it's 16.

I can't even believe that number. But the percentage of Americans, because we're slugging down fructose like nuts anyway. So but just the point is our environment has changed everything. And that's why getting back to going approaching medicine the way you are thinking about it is the only way forward. Because if you do it the way I was trained to do it, you're only going to do it after the training has run you over. Yeah. You know, and that's not pretty. So I mean so get the in going back to so when.

So what's your maybe your main pieces of environmental advice for folks. I mean I it's always put you on the spot there. But you're you're top 3 or 4. Like what what should you do to clean up your environment? I know, I know, there's so many things we can go after and take your pick. I know, and it's evolving well, I mean really easy water, right. You know, please drink it and, you know, get the fluoride out of the water, the aluminum out of the water, the guy at the side of the water. If you want to go down the rabbit hole, you can put the hydrogen in the water structure the water, deplete the water.

You know, there's lots you can do with water, but we have to have water every day in water. You know, it's really important. And and, you know, Michael Jackson and mold on those patients, you know, the entire diabetic hormone issue. Right. So a lot of patients can be chronically dehydrated and not really holding on to the, you know, the water that they need. And so I think a good, you know, a good plan around water, you know, clean water. Put some electrolytes in your water. Yeah. Minerals. Yeah. Minerals.

And then, you know, I guess there's so many different ways to, then I would say, obviously the mold of your own mold, you have to deal with that. But I would say with my way of breaking down the MF issues. So MF is like a whole thing, and we're only increasing our exposure. Right. And you know, when we think about radiation exposure or accumulative exposure over time. So how can you take all this information and try to you know, stay sane in the world? Yeah. You know, I say, you know, try to create the safest sleeping environment that you can, right?

Because, you know, we need sleep to heal and repair and detoxify our brain and to, you know, help heal our limbic system and all the things that we need in sleep. And so if we can reduce EMF exposure during sleep, but not only improves our sleep, but also just gives us that break, you know, so whether that's turning your Wi-Fi off at night, please don't bring your cell phone into your room. You know, even, you know, if you're really sick and want to measure and understand, you know, what your exposure is, you can work with somebody who's trained to help you, potentially use shielding tools to help.

But I think the bedroom is the best place to make sense of all of this, because it can be very overwhelming. And then, you know, if you ask me this, like two weeks ago, I wouldn't have said this answer, but I just, was invited to speak last week and at Poly Phase Farms in Virginia, and that was that straw sale into this farmer who he was very popularized, and, Michael Pollan's book The right, and, it's all about, you know, it was a really fun group of people because it was like, help people, but also the regenerative agriculture people.

And, you know, when I think about it, you know, we and, you know, people like Zach Bush and a lot of us who are doing this medicine realize this interconnection, right, that we are a microcosm of the macrocosm and our soil is completely. Yeah, whatever. That's true. Yeah. Like the best. Nice way to put that. Yeah. So we we need to, you know, look at this regenerative agriculture practice. So, what does that mean for the individuals. So even, you know, what can you do within your home environment just to kind of put you in touch with your food source, what it is that you have a garden is that, that you even just get a pot with herbs is that you have chickens, you know, is there some way to reconnect?

I feel like Americans have become so disengaged with their food that that's part of why we're seeing what we're seeing, even what you're seeing with the non fatty or nonalcoholic fatty liver syndrome. And so I it was just a really kind of beautiful, beautiful reflection being there, seeing how he, treated all of the animals and moved them around so that they regenerated the soil. So his soil actually started as, like rock and clay. And then over three years, he was able to completely, you know, make it thrive through using, animals and, you know, moving them around and also just the things that he was doing all the time.

So it was just this also beautiful, like insight. Hey, like, the Earth can regenerate its soil, like we can regenerate, you know, our, you know, microbiome as well. So when we think about environment, I, you know, I think of like how can even just whatever I'm saying means to you like whether it's going to the farmers market or just engaging in this, you know, I think revival, connecting to the soil, because I, I think really, if we don't

Environment, Terrain, and Toxic Exposure 42:58

all participate in this, I mean, I'm an optimist, so I'm not going to be I think if we don't really participate and we're going to be in trouble, right? We're just going to, you know, have really, Yeah, squandered, you know what? We yeah, we're going to be we're going to be continuing with, you know, responding to, to to pandemics and doing it the way we're doing it. It's not going to be pretty. And but, you know, went to it. You striking listening to you is is that going back to, you know, like a bio full time.

Yeah. You know it's a that's where you put your water out in the sun. You know, if you can't do anything else, you just I mean, what you're talking about, you're just inspiring that. You're kind of inspiring me. That's it. I'm looking outside to get out there, step in the dirt, use a little bit of it, grow something. I just love what you're saying, and I. I really feel that in my heart is that. That's it restores hope to us. I mean, because that's what this body needs is is sun and hope totally.

Yeah. You know. Yeah. No, but I, I agree and I, you know, I mean, I, I'm a student of all this and I'm learning and. Yeah, you know, I think as you said, like with the pandemic, like, America isn't going through a healing crisis. Right. And we can either, you know, continue down a trajectory or we can use this as a huge opportunity to, you know, really rethink how we're doing things. And I think, you know, again, how do we have a resilient terrain, right. That starts with our microbiome, our environment, you know, optimizing flow, but also not to go on this tangent too.

But I know that we see this in chronic illness. It's like I do believe ultimately our bodies are an instrument of, you know, consciousness. Right? So we you know, we can see in our physical bodies where we have, you know, there's an opportunity to really heal by going to those deeper places of ourselves, you know, to understand, you know, what is unhealed, right? Is a, you know, unhealed trauma in our life. Is it even pre our life and ancestral? Is it, you know, what is it? But I think there's you know, people can take their journey to whatever level.

But I continually am inspired when people also look at the emotional and the trauma roots that that's really when like those instantaneous shifts to happen that we all want for a patient. Yeah. You know, what's what's difficult is that when the energy system gets very, very, very low, it that's when it's needed the most and the hardest to do. I often try to let people know not to beat themselves up because when you're when you really reach that point, when you're in pain all the time, it's and and I reach out and I want you to to, you know, like still try to open the heart.

It's a I have to say, it's sometimes it's a little bit like being asked to learn how to swim when you're drowning, you know, it's like. But on the other hand, you that can be the only choice you have. Yeah, yeah. And it's. And I hear you, it's timing. Right, Eric and I think that. Yeah. You know and I and don't get me wrong, it's like when a person is like literally, you know, dying in front of me, we kind of build them up, right? So that they as best we can. But, but, but you're right. But it's that but those are the, the thing that's frustrating I mean to us and and the human being in front of us is that times all of our other work isn't going to do much until that subtle work inside is done.

And I said, and it's just like it's almost it's not a it feels unfair. Is that like, you know, because when you to feel the beauty of the universe is easiest when you feel, well, you know, probably why we want people to feel well, right, and all of that. But like, they also need that energy, you know, for them to. Yeah. Yeah. It's a it's, you know, evolution. And I think that's why there is you know, I use this I don't always love this word of that's why there is that healer relationship. Because, you know, people need help sometimes.

You know, they need to add, you know, energy add, you know, light to their body so they can start doing the work themselves. Right? Ultimately, you know, we're facilitating that. But, but yeah, I, I agree with you or with how sick our patients can be. You know, it's it's supporting them to get there. Yeah. Yeah. No. And I'm just say that to, to people because I know that that so many patients get annoyed sometimes if I, if you know, if, if I or someone else starts to speak about, you know, doing, doing deeper work when they feel like they can barely, you know, have this have the desire, the desire to live is often getting tenuous.

And and I think it is unfair, but that seems to be how, you know, how do you say the rich get richer? I mean, it's one of the unfair things of, of, of just I didn't design this, but this is how it seems to working. And also the appeal that when you feel well physically to take the time to really, you know, start to, to, to, engage, engage the psyche, engage the deeper places, do it when your energy is good and it will be there for you when you when you need it, because you know that that darkness comes to everyone at some point in life, you know.

And so it's good to have the training first. Totally. And I think this is also, what I'm exploring more with my sicker patients and also my healthy patients too, that this is also the opportunity when you're even really low, where the subtle medicine like light and sound, you know, can be very so even just like you have no energy to do anything, but, you know, there's a whole rabbit hole of sound healing, right? And sound can affect your field and can also affect your nervous system. And, you know, it has all of these beautiful physiological effects.

And we actually this other, instrument in the office, it's called Sound of Soul. And this, I got introduced to this man, Rasmus, Gout Berg house of his Austrian. And he studied with a model. And so he studied, the water guy for people who don't know. Right. Good words like water, the water change, bad words. That was, you know, unhealthy. So he, has a way of taking your heart rate variability and converting it to music and then playing it back to you. So ultimately, it's the music of your heart that auto tunes you to create more coherence in your field.

To start, you know all of the things that, you know, I I'm a believer, I'm still a student of this, that the field informs the physical body, but how? It's bidirectional. But how do you how do you do that? Yeah. When you're feeling really sick, like you can't go into, you know, do eMDR or do this or DNR or whatever, but music, you know, music, there's lots of different you can listen to music. You know, most people I know, some people are sound so to them. But most people can experience music. And whether it's Sound of Soul or, you know, the tuning works with bio field tuning or just like sound bowls or, you know, or music that just makes you feel good.

You know, I think that, you know, there's a I was introduced and this other researcher, doctor Carlos Ventura, and he studies how sound can actually activate our results, you know, so, you know, yeah, there's a whole like, you know, in our cells don't only communicate with bio photons, but bio photons, too, like, there's a music of our of our cells. So those are the, you know, we know all the things we talked about. Those were the, things that I'm going down the rabbit hole of how do I go? And those are, those are I mean, this is this is I have to say, you know, it funny, you know, what is the value of the of, of this particular song?

And, you know, for me, it's been the learning and the joy of like of just how many there's so many different modalities and, and and the feet, you know, it can be frustrating when you're the patient for sure, because, like, you know, how much money and how much time and how much energy do you have, but but the thing I always tell so is everything works sometimes, you know, and you don't be. If it doesn't resonate with you, well, don't start there, you know, but try to find things because as you keep saying, is the, the bio photon, the, the, you know, like sound energy, energy is what we are about.

And, if it's if you just, you know, when you're when you're feeling well, remember to engage in doing this. And when you're not feeling well, hunt it down. Find something that resonates with your soul. And, and really, I said, I, I, I and don't be so, cynical. I mean, that that I think is the thing that keeps people stuck and sick the longest is when you're cynical and you just because it doesn't make sense to, you know. Yeah. You know. Yeah, I love science. Okay. But but medicine is not science.

Medicine is just a collection of stories and theories about how they connect and what they do. And that's it. Okay. I'm sorry. You know, you want to build a bridge, you can tell me about science, you know, but not about the body. But we know. We know that we're energetic and all these things we don't yet understand the details, but I'm going. But but just what you're bringing up is so, so important. And, you know, you know, I'm so glad that you're bringing these modalities into your clinics because they're, they're they're really, really, really important to always offer that to, to people. And, you know, it.

We I, I've always had this dream of, being able to gather, you know, there's probably hundreds. There's got to be hundreds, maybe thousands of these different modalities that brilliant people have, have come up with. Yeah. Yes. And they go and they kind of like live for a while, but because they don't hit enough people, they kind of die off. Yeah. Yeah. No. And when you think I mean when you like how this works, you think, you know, people think, oh, if it works and we hear about it, but that's not you know, that's not true at all.

You know that old story. If it really worked, they've cured cancer. Everybody would know. No, I have seen people recover from cancer and then go back to the oncologist and they just assume that it's a one off, right? I mean, yeah, you know, it's it's it's no, no, just because it works doesn't mean your doctor knows about it. Yeah. I mean, because I've spent my in the last since I've been doing these interviews, there's so many things at work that I've been hearing from people that I didn't know about,

Energy Medicine, Sound, and Emotional Healing 53:38

and I spent my life trying to learn this stuff. So know do not give up. Absolutely. But I echo that, desire, you know, I think, you know, everyone's now there's, you know, the human experience. There's so many ways. But if we can have, like, a almost a consensus as, you know, our profession here, we're talking about, like, these are the majority of the modalities, the work when we, you know, these are the best modalities, the best light modalities, the best, you know, emotional, you know, like really perfecting the those like those buckets.

I, and helping prioritize for people. But I think that's the future of medicine though I think that, you know, not only are we going to get better at diagnosing through lab work, but I think we're also going to get better at, you know, applying different modalities that really, really move the needle for people. Yeah. Well, I, I mean, I go into my PhD, my favorite subject is, yeah, it is when we're going to get to the point that, we really get the funding to do, and of enough and of one, studies that we can, that we can do that and say, hey, wait a minute.

You know, so these three things worked for this person and, and that, you know, and maybe a different set of, of three things work for another. But this one thing was in all of them and maybe it's it's good, it's powerful. And we should get it out to more people because, you know, I yeah, it's just but at this point that's not there, just because of how much money it would take to do that and it goes against the grain, is that, the the powers that be still think, you know, there's going to be one answer.

There's going to be one vibration. There's going to be one sound therapy. One light therapy. Yeah, one magic in therapy. But so for you, when you're so you're you've done a lot to say. I'm just looking at your career. You know, you worked a lot. You supported a lot of people in learning and training. And now you're you tell me a little bit about your new project. Yeah, I mean, I think so. I, you know, I've been practicing, as I mentioned, 11 years, and I had the opportunity to, create my own clinic, and it's called Eminence and Eminence.

You know, when you think about naming the clinic, you you just go through all these variations. But this word one day just came to me, and I didn't really understand that until I go deeper and the translation is the divine within. So what that means to me is, you know, just connecting with, people, really connecting with that ability that we're connected to something greater. It's not outside of ourselves, it's within us. And that can be a, you know, create the momentum and energy that we need to heal.

Right? So, so my, you know, clinic is in Seattle and I have a team of doctors that I work with, to, actually, three naturopaths, we specialize and, you know, co-infections and Lyme and mold and chronic illness. And then, one of the doctors specializes in integrative oncology, which I'm really excited to, you know, learn I haven't done much oncology work in my career. My father's an oncologist, but I, you know, I've been really interested to, you know, just be able to offer more, cancer patients, more tools.

And so, so we have a team and then we really, you know, in the land of Covid, we've been doing a lot of telemedicine, but people are traveling again. And our our goal is to really put them through a transformational process while they're in an office and then give them tools and modalities to take it home. So we individualize all treatment. But, you know, is a combination of physician consults and then doing, you know, these modalities, from, you know, these lymphatic therapies to bio energetic tools to, you know, in our I.V.

room, we also have the Weber laser, which is the intravenous, application, which has been really fun to work with. So, that, you know, is my, you know, new project in my, you know, I, you know, was in a previous clinic, and, my vision is still the same. I mean, I think, that really, as you and I both know that there's so many people struggling out there, and there's a very, you know, when we think about how many people are in America and how many people need help, there's so much limited access, you know, to the work that we're doing.

So my goal is to really come up with a model and educate, you know, what works and hopefully create more access and, you know, more communities and really, and really be proud of our outcomes that really, truly integrate not only physical medicine, but this, this acknowledgment that the, you know, our electrical and we're electromagnetic energy beings and the more that we combine that, the more healing that only happens for ourselves, but also our families, our communities. You know, I'm an optimist.

So I ultimately I agree. Now the, you know, the of the the field of Mother Earth responds to the field of us, you know, through the work of math. So the more that we can have a ripple effect, you know, that's that is my my hope. That is a beautiful, beautiful, beautiful vision, you know, and and I really I salute you. And and I can tell you, you know, I've been, been doing including, you know, what I call the body and the fashion and the, those things in my clinic, you know, for. Yeah, really for the last.

Yeah, pretty much. We started in, in, like, about 2006. We always tried, but in 2000, we started with the EMS, and that was that. And that was the beginning of seeing how how we could begin to interact with people, you know, who were too sensitive for much else. But we could always run it without connecting it to the body and and. Yeah. No. And you, I mean, and I just applaud you because it's a lot of work to hold that space, you know, because, you know, people don't realize that it's just the, how do you say, The when

Clinic Vision and Closing Reflections 59:38

in order for any of these modalities to work, they usually have to be done by someone who is not just in love with them, but also is talented. Yeah. And special and has different has a training. And, you know, it's not just you can hire someone who like, you know, and you use this machine. Right. So it's a lot of people who are very special that have to work and dance together. And I applaud you for, for moving forward with that and bring it into fruition. Yeah. I love what, creating and cultivating, you know that.

You know that. No, no. And especially you you it sounds like you have a concept that you hope to, like, maybe move this forth and help other and get it out there more in the world. And, and that's, that's, you know, good luck. I really because it needs to be done. It needs to be done. There are too many. There are I mean, you know, because this is a group effort. Yeah. You know, for every patient who if you have, you know, chronic illness, the more help you can get. Because I said it's like we're playing.

You're like it's it's like playing a piano without, using, you know, like just like, humming over the strings. Right, right, right, right. The more the more people are humming over those strings, the more likely you will kind of get some interesting sounds. I just know, isn't it a little mixed metaphor? But anyway, I love it. No, but they need me, right? You know. Yeah. And deserve a team, you know. So. Yeah. So that's exciting. Anyway, so a pleasure talking to you. Yeah, yeah. Learn to learn. Learned a lot.

I, gave me a few new toys I want to follow up on because I said I. I call them toys, and I. I don't mean that facetiously. It's just, it's just that because we want to I mean, I look at medicine is play. It's a dance. It's what we do to bring joy and health to people. And I know that can sound. I don't mean it to sound light. It's just a it's a way that keeps me going. I've been doing this a long time. And I meet people who often enter with a much more umph mode. You can't see it because, you know, it's it's we're we're here to serve.

But if we're, if it's only, heavy duty lifting and you don't share your joy, I don't think you can keep doing it. Yeah. Yeah, totally. You know, I see that in you. It's like you you light up when you're talking about helping people, and that's the joy and that's the fun. And so I just kind of take it to a next level of where we're playing, when when it's, you know, but in the good sense of, of, of just enjoying life together. Difficult times. Anyway, thank you so much. It's been a pleasure. Thank you so much.